NationStates Jolt Archive

Due to a horrible mistake made by me, my last post was shut down in less than a day because it was in the wrong forum. I'm sorry. So i have reposted it here, where i was told ot should be.
So, who would win? A jedi or a wizard?

Depending on what sort of wizard you're using, they generally have far more dramatic and widesweeping powers than any jedi.

Wizards for the win.

a Jizard.

Wizard pwns all Jedi. If we're going by the standard fantasy/AD&D wizard, he'll be able to pwn the average Jedi no problem. I mean, face it, the Jedi isn't going to be able to survive a few fireballs and magic missle followed by Bigby's Crushing Hand, Energy Drain, and Symbol/Power Word: Death.

I didn't even get in to Gate, Wish, Miracle, or the ilk. Hell, Mordenkainen's Blade could probably take the Jedi. Hell, I haven't even factored in wands, staves, armor, potions, or anything else. All the Jedi has is the lightsaber, some martial arts, and the Force...and in reality the wizard's magical powers are not unlike the force anyways.

Me.

a Jizard.

Eww...

Wizard pwns all Jedi. If we're going by the standard fantasy/AD&D wizard, he'll be able to pwn the average Jedi no problem. I mean, face it, the Jedi isn't going to be able to survive a few fireballs and magic missle followed by Bigby's Crushing Hand, Energy Drain, and Symbol/Power Word: Death.

I didn't even get in to Gate, Wish, Miracle, or the ilk. Hell, Mordenkainen's Blade could probably take the Jedi. Hell, I haven't even factored in wands, staves, armor, potions, or anything else. All the Jedi has is the lightsaber, some martial arts, and the Force...and in reality the wizard's magical powers are not unlike the force anyways.
Finger of death for life. XD

That spell would make an awesome death penalty. :)

Finger of death for life. XD

I didn't want to list too many of the powerful spells...the Finger of Death is one of the only ways to pwn the Tarrasque down to -10, so I think it could take a Jedi.

I didn't want to list too many of the powerful spells...the Finger of Death is one of the only ways to pwn the Tarrasque down to -10, so I think it could take a Jedi.
With ease. Plus the Wizard would have chain contingencies, and be immune to his attacks, unleashing arcane hell in the process. The Jedi would be so dead before he could even draw his "lightsabre" toy.

yet despite your powerfull argument, jedi is still in the lead by 3 votes. I think that the jedi would win because the force supposedly is the force that controls all things in the universe. The force is practically a metaphor for Godin the star wars universe.

yet despite your powerfull argument, jedi is still in the lead by 3 votes. I think that the jedi would win because the force supposedly is the force that controls all things in the universe. The force is practically a metaphor for Godin the star wars universe.
Arcane magic > the Force.

Plus, i have never heard of wizards in space.

God > Arcane magic

Plus, i have never heard of wizards in space.
Ever heard of Jedi in Hell? Nop. Wizards can hop the planes. Beat that.

With ease. Plus the Wizard would have chain contingencies, and be immune to his attacks, unleashing arcane hell in the process. The Jedi would be so dead before he could even draw his "lightsabre" toy.

The Jedi's lucky if the lightsaber doesn't attack him instead of the wizard...

God > Arcane magic
Yes, Clerics own all. :eek:

God > Arcane magic

The Wizard can cast Wish or Miracle to bring a god in to the fight and then open a Gate to unleash a flood of creatures who acknowledge no God...

Good ole Jedi hax all wizard!

The Wizard can cast Wish or Miracle to bring a god in to the fight and then open a Gate to unleash a flood of creatures who acknowledge no God...
And yet they still get owned by Celestials, every time...

Common... everyone knows that Sailor Moon can whoop both their asses.

Common... everyone knows that Sailor Moon can whoop both their asses.
When she has her panties on...

And yet they still get owned by Celestials, every time...

Good point...still, the Jedi's going to have a hell of a time creating celestials, however. I know Sith masters can create monsters, but I don't think Jedi can. I have a feeling any celestial pwnage will have to be at the whim of a god rather than the explicit action of the Jedi.

Good ole Jedi hax all wizard!

ZOMG l-l4><><0R!

Urza Planeswalker from MTG>than all jedi

He eats jedi daily.

When she has her panties on...

And really, how often is that?

Good point...still, the Jedi's going to have a hell of a time creating celestials, however. I know Sith masters can create monsters, but I don't think Jedi can. I have a feeling any celestial pwnage will have to be at the whim of a god rather than the explicit action of the Jedi.
And yet again, the Wizard (or Cleric even) pwns the Jedi. :)

And really, how often is that?
Depends on the context...in most of the fan art, rarely ever.

A ninja. :eek:

And yet again, the Wizard (or Cleric even) pwns the Jedi. :)

And we've come full circle...:)

Multi-class Jedi/Cleric...you could concievably do it with the Star Wars d20 system RPG. :eek:

And we've come full circle...:)

Multi-class Jedi/Cleric...you could concievably do it with the Star Wars d20 system RPG. :eek:
Multi-classing's for sissies...

A ninja. :eek:
Ninja = no magic powers or Force
Ninja = dead

Multi-classing's for sissies...

Got to agree with that...but you know someone will try it.

Got to agree with that...but you know someone will try it.
And they will lose. Seriously, have you seen some of the epic D&D spells? One summons 10 red dragons! :eek:

Ninja = no magic powers or Force
Ninja = dead

But then again, look at the bounty hunters. They were able to kill Jedi without the power of the force or magic...just sheer skill.

A ninja could kill a wizard if they had a hell of a lot of magical protection, but otherwise no chance.

And they will lose. Seriously, have you seen some of the epic D&D spells? One summons 10 red dragons! :eek:

Holy shit...what book is that in!? Draconomicon?

But then again, look at the bounty hunters. They were able to kill Jedi without the power of the force or magic...just sheer skill.

A ninja could kill a wizard if they had a hell of a lot of magical protection, but otherwise no chance.
And even then, Dispel can suppress magical items. ;)

Holy shit...what book is that in!? Draconomicon?
I'm not sure. Possibly the Epic Level Handbook? It costs a LOT to make though. Around 3 million GP. The epic spells are mind-blowing. For instance, one spell deals 360 damage in one shot.

And even then, Dispel can suppress magical items. ;)

Yeah, the only way a ninja would win is if the wizard was badly outnumbered and flat footed...not to mention the ninjas had a healthy dose of spells and potions cast on them. But then the contingency triggers....

Wizard, but barely.

Depends on the context...in most of the fan art, rarely ever.

Well her fans know nothing... One must never deny the power of the moon!!! :eek:

I'm not sure. Possibly the Epic Level Handbook? It costs a LOT to make though. Around 3 million GP. The epic spells are mind-blowing. For instance, one spell deals 360 damage in one shot.

I was thinking that; I'm probably going to get it soon since we're starting to get up there in levels.

What's the XP cost on some of these things?

I was thinking that; I'm probably going to get it soon since we're starting to get up there in levels.

What's the XP cost on some of these things?
Erm really not sure. It's been a while since I saw them. I was just shocked they would create such power. Even Arcana Evolved, which is opiate for the magic freak, shies away from that much overkill. One of its most powerful spells entombs you in the Sun though, so maybe not.

Erm really not sure. It's been a while since I saw them. I was just shocked they would create such power. Even Arcana Evolved, which is opiate for the magic freak, shyes away from that much overkill. One of its most powerful spells entombs you in the Sun though, so maybe not.

Damn...next time at Borders, I'm going to get it. :cool:

Yeah, the only way a ninja would win is if the wizard was badly outnumbered and flat footed...not to mention the ninjas had a healthy dose of spells and potions cast on them. But then the contingency triggers....
The contingencies are the icing on the cake. ^^ I loved them in Baldur's Gate 2. The wizard became a walking instrument of death.

Damn...next time at Borders, I'm going to get it. :cool:
I'd recommend Arcana Evolved if magic is your thing. It is the most innovative ruleset I have yet to see for sorcery. Really loved it.

The contingencies are the icing on the cake. ^^ I loved them in Baldur's Gate 2. The wizard became a walking instrument of death.

They got even more insane in Throne of Bhaal...I'd have to say BGII:SoA and ToB were the best AD&D games for PC made in a long time. They're still amazing even 6 years after their release...and if you get the mods you're looking at 30-40 hours plus of additional game time along with hundreds of quests, NPCs, monsters, and items.

Wizard unless the Jedi in question is one of the following:

Mace Windu
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Yoda
Anakin Skywalker
Luke Skywalker
Any other powerful, yet nameless Jedi missed.

They got even more insane in Throne of Bhaal...I'd have to say BGII:SoA and ToB were the best AD&D games for PC made in a long time. They're still amazing even 6 years after their release...and if you get the mods you're looking at 30-40 hours plus of additional game time along with hundreds of quests, NPCs, monsters, and items.
I've yet to play an rpg which can surpass them. Not even Elder Scrolls has managed it. I have a real magic fetish, and BG II really catered for that kind of freak. I recently replayed them; still the best games ever. I was just sad the Clerics didn't get the Chain Contingencies. :/ I wonder what NWN 2 will be like. Hope it's nothing like the original. D&D Online and Dragonshard were both huge disappointments.

Gandalf the White vs Obi-Wan...

Gandalf. No contest.

He's got the better beard if nothing else.

And don't even get me started on Sailor Moon echi comics. ;)

Duke Nukem would pwn them both. I think that’s out of question.

Wizard unless the Jedi in question is one of the following:

Mace Windu
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Yoda
Anakin Skywalker
Luke Skywalker
Any other powerful, yet nameless Jedi missed.
Yet, if the wizard is Elminster or one of those other freaks from the D&D settings? Like Mordedaiken? In rule terms, the Jedi are much weaker than the epic D&D spellcasters. Even the Yoda and the Emperor pale by comparison to most.

Wizard unless the Jedi in question is one of the following:

Mace Windu
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Yoda
Anakin Skywalker
Luke Skywalker
Any other powerful, yet nameless Jedi missed.

Yoda, perhaps. The others except Luke were all killed by Jedi or Sith of equal power...I think only Luke or Yoda could take a wizard, perhaps only if they did it as a team.

Wizard unless the Jedi in question is one of the following:

Mace Windu
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Yoda
Anakin Skywalker
Luke Skywalker
Any other powerful, yet nameless Jedi missed.

Sorry, but the wizard would still win. There's only so much even a powerful jedi can take. Things like being crushed by an invisible fist and shot with bolts of acid and had your life drained and... Yeah, the wizard would win.

Yet, if the wizard is Elminster or one of those other freaks from the D&D settings? Like Mordedaiken? In rule terms, the Jedi are much weaker than the epic D&D spellcasters. Even the Emperor pales by comparison to most.

The Emperor only gets really powerful in the Expanded Universe; his powers are pretty limited in the actual movies, although his Force skills suggest he has powers similar to a wizard who is really heavy on negative-plane and shadow abilities.

But against Elminster, no chance.

This is no competition!!! Wizards would win if you include the oldest and wisest of the them. DDo you know who im talking about? WEll its no surprise that no jedi is a match for Merlin

Ninja = no magic powers or Force
Ninja = dead
Ninjas do know magic, they can transport themselves anywhere, become invisble for periods of time, go really fast, have super strength, and kill your mom. So STFU.

The Emperor only gets really powerful in the Expanded Universe; his powers are pretty limited in the actual movies, although his Force skills suggest he has powers similar to a wizard who is really heavy on negative-plane and shadow abilities.

But against Elminster, no chance.
Oh, I haven't seen his powers in the EU (heh). In most rulebooks he is definitely a powerhouse, but like you say, nothing compared to the D&D elite spellcasters. I love his lightning bolts.

Ninjas do know magic, they can transport themselves anywhere, become invisble for periods of time, go really fast, have super strength, and kill your mom. So STFU.
In your dreams, perhaps.

This is no competition!!! Wizards would win if you include the oldest and wisest of the them. DDo you know who im talking about? WEll its no surprise that no jedi is a match for Merlin

Merlin's descended from Satan. I think his powers are more along the lines of a cleric than a wizard...but yeah, he'd pwn a Jedi beyond a doubt.

Ninjas do know magic, they can transport themselves anywhere, become invisble for periods of time, go really fast, have super strength, and kill your mom. So STFU.

What shitty anime cartoons do you watch?

What shitty anime cartoons do you watch?
I've never even seen anime.

What shitty anime cartoons do you watch?

he probly watches that f*cked up anime called Naruto (or however you spell it).

I've heard of that one. Never seen it though.

I've heard of that one. Never seen it though.

Don't watch it on Toonami.

I don't have that channel, or any channel that shows anime, so obviously i havent seen Naruto, or any form of anime.

G*d damit. NS is full of jedi pu$$ies. Atleast Merlin is historicly a real person, maybe not a "wizard," unless you belive in magic. Even if both were real, any jedi would get pwnded by Merlin

Jedi > wizards

what kinda wizard?

Gandalf or Dumbledore?

Think of it this way - pick the most outstandingly badass example of each. To my mind, that would mean Gandalf versus Yoda.

...or, in other words, incredibly wise, gigantic-flaming-demon-slaying being analogous to an archangel who can come back from the dead, versus freaky-looking Muppet who can't even speak English properly.

No. Friggin'. Contest.

:p

G*d damit. NS is full of jedi pu$$ies. Atleast Merlin is historicly a real person, maybe not a "wizard," unless you belive in magic. Even if both were real, any jedi would get pwnded by Merlin
Uh... ok... and when did we discover Camalot?
*That wasn't a model?*

Even if you pit what is in my opinion one of, if not the most awesome force user ever (not even a Jedi...Sith Lord, in fact), Exar Kun, against a somewhat weak (compared to the true powerhouse spellcasters) wizard, the wizard still pwnsz. Easily.

Uh... ok... and when did we discover Camalot?
*That wasn't a model?*

you should read a little more. camelot was a story, but evedince shows actual people that could have been portraid as King Arthur. and there was a scientist to that was thought of as a wizard; tho some say he was evil.

Think of it this way - pick the most outstandingly badass example of each. To my mind, that would mean Gandalf versus Yoda.

...or, in other words, incredibly wise, gigantic-flaming-demon-slaying being analogous to an archangel who can come back from the dead, versus freaky-looking Muppet who can't even speak English properly.

No. Friggin'. Contest.

:p

Gandalf can suck my chocolate salty balls, and so can yoda.

you should read a little more. camelot was a story, but evedince shows actual people that could have been portraid as King Arthur. and there was a scientist to that was thought of as a wizard; tho some say he was evil.
Got a source for this one?

Jedi suck ass

and wizards can be killed by a damn domestic housecat. 1d4 hitpoints my ass.

Neither. Chuck Norris for the win.

Got a source for this one?

heres one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlin_%28wizard%29

I didn't want to list too many of the powerful spells...the Finger of Death is one of the only ways to pwn the Tarrasque down to -10, so I think it could take a Jedi.
Power Word: kill

and there is this one spell... Summon Leviathan, causes you to summon one Leviathan for one round and you cannot control it nor give it commands.


What good is that?

Imagine summing one 10 feet above your enemies... :D

Uh... ok... and when did we discover Camalot?
*That wasn't a model?*
well, it was a cardboard cutout... :D

The Jedi pretty much are wizards; the sith even more so, what with that Force Lightning dealio.

well, it was a cardboard cutout... :D
Hush!






;)

heres one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlin_%28wizard%29
Uh... did you read that? It notes that Merlin is myth and connected to the stories of King Arthur. Nothing about any historical figure that was a scientist.


Unless you mean the Stargate SG1 reference.

A wizard. Gandalf's a wizard right? Yea, he's awesome. Go Gandalf.

What shitty anime cartoons do you watch?
Yotoden
Ninja Scroll
Jubei-chan
Flame of Recca
Bastard

oh, and all of those are to Naruto like a Corvette is to an Edsel.

The Hentai Stuff has
La Blue Girl

then there is the Live action stuff.
Kage no Gundan
Edo no Taka
Kunochi: Lady Ninja

Tho I think he's referring to the Video Games.

A Jedi a deathstar and a map to the wizards planet would prevail.

A Jedi a deathstar and a map to the wizards planet would prevail.
the wizard would counter with a Quasar Dragon for the Deathstar
and a What's New dragon for the Jedi

the wizard would counter with a Quasar Dragon for the Deathstar
and a What's New dragon for the Jedi
I just had a frightning image, assuming any magic user and not just a wizard.

Jedi vs Lina Inverse with a Giga Slave...

I feel sorry for the Jedi, I really do.

Jedi have style.

Wizards, judging from all the noob epic players, don't have style.

Jedi > Wizard.

a Druid Would probably even beat the Jedi

Yoda, perhaps. The others except Luke were all killed by Jedi or Sith of equal power...I think only Luke or Yoda could take a wizard, perhaps only if they did it as a team.

Luke was only not killed by the Emperor because Darth Vader killed the Emperor first. But I agree with you that as a team they could take a wizard, certainly a druid.

can't they just force choke him untill he dies or something?

Yoda could take out Gandalf easily. Gandalf threw lighting bolts, which Yoda in Episode 2 and 3 proved he could absorb or deflect, and yoda could just throw a building at him.

The Jedi pretty much are wizards; the sith even more so, what with that Force Lightning dealio.

nope, Jedi aren't wizards, they're Mythical Space Samurai.:headbang:

One thing you are all missing is a wizard has to prepare spells and they take time to cast, during said time a jedi/sith could either force choke them which would stop the spell casting or simply kill the wizard. As we know Mages/Wizards are not much for melee battles.

stop mentioning that f*cker Gandalf. I cant say it enought that MERLIN is the ultimate wizard in the history of wizardry. and both skywalkers can suck my chocolate salty balls, while i shove Excalibur up Yoda's ass.

One thing you are all missing is a wizard has to prepare spells and they take time to cast, during said time a jedi/sith could either force choke them which would stop the spell casting or simply kill the wizard. As we know Mages/Wizards are not much for melee battles.

only the more powerful spells take time. like summoning dragons. Wizards can heal or bring plants to life in an instant.

stop mentioning that f*cker Gandalf. I cant say it enought that MERLIN is the ultimate wizard in the history of wizardry. and both skywalkers can suck my chocolate salty balls, while i shove Excalibur up Yoda's ass.

I agree Merlin is the Ultimate wizard but Gandalf does rank up there.

As for the argument I belive if you took the best of the Jedi(Yoda or Luke) and the best of the Wizards(Merlin) the wizards would easily win.He could just polymorph himself into a super virus,go into Luke or Yods body and infect them.
Sorry Jedi are cool but Wizards are better!In short,

Wizards>Jedi :)

Gawd, what's with these people? Jedi above Wizard?

It depends. A brown Wizard would probably lose to a Jedi, a Gray one is about equal, but a White one is practically INVINCIBLE!

Merlin was a druid, no? Of course, in the stories he was ultimately powerful, but look at how he got defeated? That sorta thing would never hapen to Gandalf.

And as for Luke being the ultimate jedi? How so? He got a day of training from Obi, and a day from Yoda. He may be the son-of-the-chosen-one, but hey, so what?

Jedi have style.

Wizards, judging from all the noob epic players, don't have style.

Jedi > Wizard.
i've seem some Noob Jedi players that makes the idiot in 'Krull' seem like Gandalf.

A Jedi Guardian has....

Wisdom based spell-casting, like Clerics. (Force Powers)
Wisdom bonus to AC, like Monks. (Battle Precognition)
The attack roll, hit points, and feat progression of a Fighter.

Throw in a suit of Jal Shey armor so he can cast while armored...
...a couple of sabers with some nice crystals...
...a shielding visor, Mandalorian power shield...


Dude, your wizard is screwed....especially if I get the Jedi Weaponmaster prestige class at level 15.:D

You need to play KOTOR to get an idea of what a Jedi could do to a wizard. The game is based on D&D, and one of the Jedi classes actually plays a lot like a wizard.

Edit - Btw, Darth Revan owns Vader's bitch ass.

One thing you are all missing is a wizard has to prepare spells and they take time to cast, during said time a jedi/sith could either force choke them which would stop the spell casting or simply kill the wizard. As we know Mages/Wizards are not much for melee battles.
You forget ranged attacks. I.e. fireball drops from nowhere and makes a crispy Jedi before the Jedi even knows what the hell is going on.

No, he'd sense it before it happened. All that force hooey isn't for nothing. And couldn't the jedi use mind tricks and convince the wizard he's a chicken or any other barnyard animal?

No, he'd sense it before it happened. All that force hooey isn't for nothing. And couldn't the jedi use mind tricks and convince the wizard he's a chicken or any other barnyard animal?
Wizards can use enchantment and illusion spells to do that. Please. The force is for amateurs. :rolleyes: Oh, and divination allows them to predict the future and their opponent's actions. :) Silly Liberal Jedi.

No, he'd sense it before it happened. All that force hooey isn't for nothing. And couldn't the jedi use mind tricks and convince the wizard he's a chicken or any other barnyard animal?

I can sense a truck is coming at me, but if I can't get far enough away...

No, he'd sense it before it happened. All that force hooey isn't for nothing. And couldn't the jedi use mind tricks and convince the wizard he's a chicken or any other barnyard animal?

and going back to Merlin, he has already looked into thre future.. several times im sure. and he'll either turn the jedi into an animal, make him into an animal, or just destroy him... either one is good.

even if the wizard used magic, couldn't the jedi use the force to block it?

Potter ain't got nothin' on Anakin.

even if the wizard used magic, couldn't the jedi use the force to block it?
There are so many ways of getting round that. Certain spells would just bypass it (those which do not allow spell resistance would automatically succeed, those that don't can still work if the Wizard overcomes it), others yet empower the wizard physically, and others allow him/her to summon nasties from elsewhere. Force (in the D&D sense) spells in particular would probably shatter the Jedi's defences.

Yoda could take out Gandalf easily. Gandalf threw lighting bolts, which Yoda in Episode 2 and 3 proved he could absorb or deflect, and yoda could just throw a building at him.

Puh-lease! Gandalf could not only handle falling an incredibly immense distance while being attacked by a demonic creature which, it should be noted, could thoroughly pwn anyone else in Middle Earth, but come out of all that more powerful than before. You really think a titchy little building's going to hurt him? :p

Chuck Norris would kill them both. Then a ninja would kill Chuck Norris, and cut off his beard for good measure and as a mortal insult.
Im sorry if ive distracted from the serious discussion of this thread.

Jedi suck ass

and wizards can be killed by a damn domestic housecat. 1d4 hitpoints my ass.

That is a level 1 wizard. This is about wizards like Elminster and Mordenkainen who are levels 15+.

No, he'd sense it before it happened. All that force hooey isn't for nothing. And couldn't the jedi use mind tricks and convince the wizard he's a chicken or any other barnyard animal?

The jedi can influence weak minds. Somehow I don't think any half decent wizards would come under that category.

That is a level 1 wizard. This is about wizards like Elminster and Mordenkainen who are levels 15+.
Elminster is near lvl 40, and has around 300 HP I think. :eek:

Elminster is near lvl 40, and has around 300 HP I think. :eek:

Point taken. It seems a lot of HP for any level mage but wish spells can do that.

Harry Potter + Sailor Moon = Sailor Potter... ULTIMATE WARRIOR! CAN KILL ANYTHING IN ITS WAY!!! MWAHAHAHA!!! :mad:

Point taken. It seems a lot of HP for any level mage but wish spells can do that.
Well, look at it this way. A wizard usually needs a high Constitution for Concentration, plus extra HPs. The average Wizard (even elven ones from low Con subraces) has around 14-16 Con. So that is roughly 1-7 HPs per level for an average one (1d4 + 2-3). At level 40, 300 is perfectly reasonable. Elminster has a Con of 20 I think (1d4 +5). He also has a few multiclass levels. The Simbul is exemplar of a pure Sorcerer...she has around 36 levels, and a lot of HP.

Like you said though, Wish (and other spells) can go over and beyond that. So unlike what that guy said, it's not just a matter of 1d4 HP/ lvl.

Well, look at it this way. A wizard usually needs a high Constitution for Concentration, plus extra HPs. The average Wizard (even elven ones from low Con subraces) has around 14-16 Con. So that is roughly 1-7 HPs per level for an average one (1d4 + 2-3). At level 40, 300 is perfectly reasonable. Elminster has a Con of 20 I think (1d4 +5). He also has a few multiclass levels. The Simbul is exemplar of a pure Sorcerer...she has around 36 levels, and a lot of HP.

Like you said though, Wish (and other spells) can go over and beyond that. So unlike what that guy said, it's not just a matter of 1d4 HP/ lvl.

Are we talking AD&D version 2 or 3 or 3.5? I'm used to dealing with version 2 where only warriors can get anything above +2 HP constitution bonus per level. However I still agree that the HP level is reasonable (for a level 40 wizard) due to the virtually unlimited possible magic alterations.

Are we talking AD&D version 2 or 3 or 3.5? I'm used to dealing with version 2 where only warriors can get anything above +2 HP constitution bonus per level. However I still agree that the HP level is reasonable (for a level 40 wizard) due to the virtually unlimited possible magic alterations.
3.5 of course. ;) It's the current rule set in effect. All characters, regardless of class, earn 1 hit point per 2 constitution points in it. So 300 HP for a Wizard of that level, even without magical alterations, is more than plausible. On the face of it, d4 seems pathetic...but as spellcasters have added incentive in getting a high Con, it's not so at all (an average lvl 20 Wizard will have around 110 HP with 16 Con). That said, 150 HP is scary enough, let alone 300, given how much power spellcasters already wield. They can immune themselves to damage at highest levels. :eek:

That is a level 1 wizard. This is about wizards like Elminster and Mordenkainen who are levels 15+.

Says who? Poll says "a wizard" and "a jedi". They could just as easily be level one, in which case the wizard wouldn't stand a chance.

Says who? Poll says "a wizard" and "a jedi". They could just as easily be level one, in which case the wizard wouldn't stand a chance.
What makes you think the Jedi would at level 1?

3.5 of course. ;) It's the current rule set in effect. All characters, regardless of class, earn 1 hit point per 2 constitution points in it. So 300 HP for a Wizard of that level, even without magical alterations, is more than plausible. On the face of it, d4 seems pathetic...but as spellcasters have added incentive in getting a high Con, it's not so at all (an average lvl 20 Wizard will have around 110 HP with 16 Con). That said, 150 HP is scary enough, let alone 300, given how much power spellcasters already wield. They can immune themselves to damage at highest levels. :eek:

I've been meaning to look at version 3.5 but the cost and time of getting and reading the new books doesn't seem worth it right now.

However, we branch off topic. It doesn't matter how many hit points a wizard has because the jedi wouldn't be able to do any damage to them anyway.:D

I've been meaning to look at version 3.5 but the cost and time of getting and reading the new books doesn't seem worth it right now.
Well, you can get the Open Gaming version of it free. It's the rules, with all the fluff stripped away. Here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

The epic spells in there defy belief. When you get the cash though, I recommend you get the core rulebooks. And if you're feeling flush and love magic, get Monte Cooke's Arcana Unearthed (and its related books), or Iron Heroes (and its related books), if you like it low-magic.

However, we branch off topic. It doesn't matter how many hit points a wizard has because the jedi wouldn't be able to do any damage to them anyway.:D
Exactly. ;)

Well, you can get the Open Gaming version of it free. It's the rules, with all the fluff stripped away. Here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

The epic spells in there defy belief. When you get the cash though, I recommend you get the core rulebooks. And if you're feeling flush and love magic, get Monte Cooke's Arcana Unearthed (and its related books), or Iron Heroes (and its related books), if you like it low-magic.


I've read the Tome of Magic before and it's got some options in there that would be annoying but fun for a DM with wild mages having some bonuses but having a 5% chance per spell cast for a completely random effect to occur (ears turn purple, everyone within a 30 yard radius sneezes violently for 10d4 rounds - basically the DMs discretion).

Also, to play version 3.5, I'd have to convince the other people in the group to learn the new set as well.

I've read the Tome of Magic before and it's got some options in there that would be annoying but fun for a DM with wild mages having some bonuses but having a 5% chance per spell cast for a completely random effect to occur (ears turn purple, everyone within a 30 yard radius sneezes violently for 10d4 rounds - basically the DMs discretion).
Oh, I can assure you, Arcana Evolved is far more sophisticated than that. It's essentially a replacement for the PHB. A very good one, with extremely creative ideas. Monte Cook is one of the D&D "architects". It's almost magic overkill, without becoming corny.

Also, to play version 3.5, I'd have to convince the other people in the group to learn the new set as well.
True. Although that link will give you an idea as to how the rules work.

I digress though. [/hack]

You people and all you're RP stuff and such have missed the point. The real question is who would win, Ziggy Stardust or The Mama's and the Papa's?

But for the sake of the thread, a wizard. I mean Jedi's aren't magic, they're just damn good at jumping and shit. I'd like to see a Jedi pull a rabbit out of hat.

What would a jedi be in D&D. Doesn't really fit as a warrior. Seems a bit druidic with the "everything in the universe must be balanced" true neutral alignment but with weaker magic abilities.

What would a jedi be in D&D. Doesn't really fit as a warrior. Seems a bit druidic with the "everything in the universe must be balanced" true neutral alignment but with weaker magic abilities.
Hmm...they're sort of like Paladins, who use the force instead of divine power. The Star Wars D20 material details it. Never read much of it though, since I don't like SW.

Their alignment does seem kind of screwed up with them having to do good but wanting balance in the universe. Who cast feeblemind on George Lucas?:D

Sorry, that was a bad joke.

Merlin was a druid, no? Of course, in the stories he was ultimately powerful, but look at how he got defeated? That sorta thing would never hapen to Gandalf.

And as for Luke being the ultimate jedi? How so? He got a day of training from Obi, and a day from Yoda. He may be the son-of-the-chosen-one, but hey, so what?

luke was the ultimate jedi because he defeated darth vader who had the highest Midi chlrine of any jedi.Therefore,Luke has more Midi Chlorines than Darth which makes Luke the best jedi.

Their alignment does seem kind of screwed up with them having to do good but wanting balance in the universe. Who cast feeblemind on George Lucas?:D

Sorry, that was a bad joke.
Yeah, it is kind of odd, isn't it? You'd expect them to be the good end of the spectrum, and the Sith to fill the evil side. I guess for Lucas though, balance can only be found in good. :rolleyes: How puritan.

luke was the ultimate jedi because he defeated darth vader who had the highest Midi chlrine of any jedi.Therefore,Luke has more Midi Chlorines than Darth which makes Luke the best jedi.

...Didn't the Emperor defeat Vader? and Vader got him... Luke didn't really beat anyone.

...Didn't the Emperor defeat Vader? and Vader got him... Luke didn't really beat anyone.
Yeah...the Emperor was just pushed down some hole. Luke got lucky 'cause his daddy saved him. In terms of power, the Emperor pwned him several times over.

This is why Jedi suck right here http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=episode3

Also no1 brought anything about the Planeswalkers from MTG. No Jedi would have a chance against them, they are pratically immortal.

I guess the vote goes to Jedi, despite the overwhelming argument laid out in the thread for wizards.

^^^^^Cleverly disguised Bump.

I know, 3 years is a long time to bring a thread back after.

Have to go with the Jedi on this one, powers of the Force, plus a Blazing Plasma-Blade capable of severing nearly anything( short of Cortosis, in which case they would just need a small knife, lol)

Almost no contest, lol....Id just Hire Boba Fett and take care of them both, lol

Always depends on the wizard. If a Harry Potter Wizard, for example, the Jedi probably wins. If a Lord of the Rings Wizard, harder to say. Other wizards have varying levels of power.

Jedi. for the simple reason that there is a D20 adaption of the force powers but no wizards for the jedi star wars universe.
In sort this means jedi can deal with magic as he has force skills geared up to counter those threats a wizard does not.

at epic levels a jedi can look at you and shut down your organs. Where as a wizard has no way to counter or even be aware force powers are being used.

depends on the skills of each, the nature of the contest, and what they were competing for.

Oh my, a gravedig! Seriously, though, wizard all the way. For example, in D&D 3.0, the 5th-level spell Wall Of Force can trap a jedi in a clear hemisphere with a diamter of 1 foot per caster's level. Aside from a few spells (which jedi don't have), the wall is INVINCIBLE. The jedi will be stuck inside for one minute per level, so that's plenty of time for the wizard to cast Magic Jar, use it to take over the jedi's body, and impale "himself" (which, presumably, even the incompetent can suceed at). Then the wizard can either withdraw to his own body (returning the jedi's spirit to the now-fatally wounded body), or simply wait until the body dies (where the wizard is automatically ejected and the jedi's spirit dies).

Also, if the wizard is level 1, then the jedi is Jar Jar Binks. :p

...and in any case, there's also the possibility that the wizard is actually Pun-Pun. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pun-Pun_(DnD_Optimized_Character_Build))

It would depend on the types of cheese involved. How much is government cheese? How much is American and how much is Swiss? Answer these questions and you shall have the answer to whether the jedi or the wizard would be victorious.

Wizards, wtf!

Jedi: Luke Skywalker (sissy), Anakin Skywalker (psycho), Palpatine (idiot, didn't even read the evil overlord list).
Wizards: Gandalf the Grey (demigod), Albus Dumbledore (supragenius), Elminster (exaggerate).

Come on. There's no match.

Yeah, it is kind of odd, isn't it? You'd expect them to be the good end of the spectrum, and the Sith to fill the evil side. I guess for Lucas though, balance can only be found in good. :rolleyes: How puritan.

Who knows? Maybe in ep.VII,VIII and IX Luke will turn to the Dark Side... *naaaaaaahhhh*