NationStates Jolt Archive

Assuming its truth, I think the would-be terrorists were being a bit to foolhardy when they came up with this one. It sounds as though these guys were doing a lot of macho-islamist fantasizing.
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CBC Report:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/06/suspects-hearing.html

"One of the suspects in an alleged bomb plot in Ontario is accused of wanting to storm Parliament, behead the prime minister and attack a number of sites, including the CBC building in Toronto, his lawyer says."

"Batasar said he was given an eight-page synopsis of the allegations, including storming Parliament, blowing up some of the buildings and taking politicians hostage to demand the withdrawal of Canadian troops in Afghanistan. If the demands were not met, it is alleged, Chand wanted to behead Stephen Harper."

That would suck a great deal.

That would suck a great deal.

What I find even more peculiar is the threat to CBC, that’s just weird.

I've often wondered if we should not kill the prime minister myself. usually when he opens his mouth about Kyoto. But to say that I *want* to do it because I *thought* about it is pure speculation.

This lead us nowhere. We don't arrest people because they are mad, we arrest them because they are willing to act on those feelings.

They wanted to behead Harper? Damnit, why didn't we wait until AFTER to arrest them? They'd have done Canada a great service! :p

Canadian Terrorists Contemplated Beheading Harper
He wishes...

You haven't played in the big leagues until somebody important takes notice of you.

What I find even more peculiar is the threat to CBC, that’s just weird.

Hmm, I wonder what they don't like about the CBC? Maybe they don't like George Stroumboulopoulos on The Hour? :p

Hmm, I wonder what they don't like about the CBC? Maybe they don't like George Stroumboulopoulos on The Hour? :p
It must be Don Cherry.

Everyone in Quebec has heard about Cherry and his racists views.

It must be Don Cherry.

Everyone in Quebec has heard about Cherry and his racists views.

Hmm, I haven't paid attention. Don Cherry saying shit about French folks?

Hmm, I haven't paid attention. Don Cherry saying shit about French folks?
Usually.

But why else would they want to attack the CBC?

Usually.

But why else would they want to attack the CBC?

Who knows. They just wanna blow up any major institution for their Western ideals and whatever.

What I find even more peculiar is the threat to CBC, that’s just weird.

It'd kill the broadcast of the Stanley Cup finals.

They dont care who they piss off.

It'd kill the broadcast of the Stanley Cup finals.

They dont care who they piss off.

Well, that would be a big deal. Even if they stopped a curling match broadcast, that would be something to make Canadians notice.

They wanted to behead Harper? Damnit, why didn't we wait until AFTER to arrest them? They'd have done Canada a great service! :p
Harper may be a douchebag, but it's still not nice to wish him dead.

Harper may be a douchebag, but it's still not nice to wish him dead.
I guess this is why the PM of Canada doesn't have bodyguards.

Well, that would be a big deal. Even if they stopped a curling match broadcast, that would be something to make Canadians notice.
Oooh, not curling, then they'd have all the Newfies on their heels and that's serious trouble.

Curling is pretty interesting though. It gets pretty intense once you get into it... :p

Other than that, I think they wanted to attack CBC supposedly because of its liberalness.

They wanted to behead Harper? Damnit, why didn't we wait until AFTER to arrest them? They'd have done Canada a great service! :p

Get out of my country.

It'd kill the broadcast of the Stanley Cup finals.

They dont care who they piss off.
All of these peopleare SO Canadian

What pisses me off is the amount of people coming out and defending these people. They're not even thinking about the fact that these people conspired to kill tons of our citizens. They're thinking exclusively about the fact that these people are Muslim.

Being Muslim doesn't make you guilty, but it sure as hell doesn't make you innocent, either. If police find 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate in -any- household let alone a Muslim one, they're going to assume someones making a bomb.

I guess this is why the PM of Canada doesn't have bodyguards.
I'm sure there are enough crazy people in this country who would kill the PM, they just probably don't have the means or ability to do so.

Curling is pretty interesting though. It gets pretty intense once you get into it... :p

Other than that, I think they wanted to attack CBC supposedly because of its liberalness.
Or perhaps because then they can broadcast whatever they want... it wouldnt' get much more dramatic than them storming onto say, a live broadcast of the news and executing some reporters or camera crew.

It'd kill the broadcast of the Stanley Cup finals.


THOSE FIENDS!

What pisses me off is the amount of people coming out and defending these people. They're not even thinking about the fact that these people conspired to kill tons of our citizens. They're thinking exclusively about the fact that these people are Muslim.

Being Muslim doesn't make you guilty, but it sure as hell doesn't make you innocent, either. If police find 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate in -any- household let alone a Muslim one, they're going to assume someones making a bomb.

what if it's on a farm?

what if it's on a farm?

Probably wouldnt store three tons of fertiliser in the household as such even on a farm.

what if it's on a farm?
They weren't farmers.

What pisses me off is the amount of people coming out and defending these people. They're not even thinking about the fact that these people conspired to kill tons of our citizens. They're thinking exclusively about the fact that these people are Muslim.

Being Muslim doesn't make you guilty, but it sure as hell doesn't make you innocent, either. If police find 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate in -any- household let alone a Muslim one, they're going to assume someones making a bomb.
why not let the crown make it's case in front of a judge and stop judging them before all the facts have been exposed, eh?

This goes for both sides of the issue.

why not let the crown make it's case in front of a judge and stop judging them before all the facts have been exposed, eh?

This goes for both sides of the issue.

Word.

This forum caracterizes why I hate being Canadian. Apart from a few posts with sense to them, this is just a bunch of liberal low-lifes.

Being Muslim doesn't make you guilty, but it sure as hell doesn't make you innocent, either. If police find 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate in -any- household let alone a Muslim one, they're going to assume someones making a bomb.
Just by itself the ammonium nitrate is not great evidence, but the mounties have said that they also had bomb making equipment, and that they have evidence of their plans and other activities. The ammonium nitrate is just part of their case.

This forum caracterizes why I hate being Canadian. Apart from a few posts with sense to them, this is just a bunch of liberal low-lifes.
There's only been one somewhat unreasonable post and I think it was a joke. Calm down and stop being such an insulting jackass.

Just by itself the ammonium nitrate is not great evidence, but the mounties have said that they also had bomb making equipment, and that they have evidence of their plans and other activities. The ammonium nitrate is just part of their case.
A large part of their case, actually. Ammonium Nitrate is the explosive that they're using, making it the primary piece of evidence. In addition to that, they found boxes of old cellphones, briefcases, flashlights, etc. - stuff that wouldn't get a conviction anywhere. Without the Ammonium Nitrate, there is no case.

And as for others saying that I should wait on the crown - I am, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give these people any support, or give any support to those rabid people who think playing the Race Card is a good defense. That sickens me. That makes me not want to be Canadian. Because people are so caught up on the ethnicity of these people that they don't look at the real facts - the truth is, even if they all aren't, at least 5 of these people are guilty of conspiring against us. And as a Canadian, an accepting Canadian who lives in BRAMPTON, ONTARIO (where these people are being kept and where the trial is taking place), seeing a potential attack come from CANADIAN CITIZENS disgusts me. But police can't plant 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate and people who live entirely away from Farm Country have NO need for it.

The Chinese community didn't rally around Cecilia Zhang's killers because it was a disgusting crime. This, even if the crime was not committed, was a disgusting plot and the Muslim community shouldn't be rallying around them just because of their Faith.

And as a Canadian, an accepting Canadian who lives in BRAMPTON, ONTARIO (where these people are being kept and where the trial is taking place), seeing a potential attack come from CANADIAN CITIZENS disgusts me.
The trial is taking place in Brampton?! Seriously?
That's fucking hilarious! Brampton is such a hell-hole.

The trial is taking place in Brampton?! Seriously?
That's fucking hilarious! Brampton is such a hell-hole.
Not really, actually. Brampton's pretty nice overall, especially the further you make it down Queen St.. Closer you get to Malton or Mississauga though the worse it gets (those places are what I'd call hellholes). But our Courthouse is one of the best ones in the province so we're used for a lot of high-profile trials.

The trial is taking place in Brampton?! Seriously?
That's fucking hilarious! Brampton is such a hell-hole.


You arent on the Brampton tourism board are you?

Hmm, I wonder what they don't like about the CBC? Maybe they don't like George Stroumboulopoulos on The Hour? :p

Its probably not that they don’t like George himself rather, they don’t like his outdated spiky hair and belt.

Not really, actually. Brampton's pretty nice overall, especially the further you make it down Queen St.. Closer you get to Malton or Mississauga though the worse it gets (those places are what I'd call hellholes). But our Courthouse is one of the best ones in the province so we're used for a lot of high-profile trials.
I'm from Brampton, it's not a nice place. I'm even from the "nice" area.
It's a horribly dull, shitty place. Fixing up the mall doesn't change that fact.

You arent on the Brampton tourism board are you?
No, I'm certainly not. I only go there to visit my family and friends, there's nothing worthwhile there otherwise.

I'm from Brampton, it's not a nice place. I'm even from the "nice" area.
It's a horribly dull, shitty place. Fixing up the mall doesn't change that fact.
I'm from Brampton, it's not a hell-hole. It's boring, yup, because all you can do on a Friday night is either get drunk, get high, see a movie, or drive to Toronto. But you've clearly never been to some real horribly dull, shitty places. I learned to love Brampton after driving through Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Wisconsin. You have no idea how good Brampton has it.

And doesn't the Bramalea City Centre blow?! That malls hopeless, it's all female clothing stores.

A large part of their case, actually. Ammonium Nitrate is the explosive that they're using, making it the primary piece of evidence. In addition to that, they found boxes of old cellphones, briefcases, flashlights, etc. - stuff that wouldn't get a conviction anywhere. Without the Ammonium Nitrate, there is no case.

And as for others saying that I should wait on the crown - I am, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give these people any support, or give any support to those rabid people who think playing the Race Card is a good defense. That sickens me. That makes me not want to be Canadian. Because people are so caught up on the ethnicity of these people that they don't look at the real facts - the truth is, even if they all aren't, at least 5 of these people are guilty of conspiring against us. And as a Canadian, an accepting Canadian who lives in BRAMPTON, ONTARIO (where these people are being kept and where the trial is taking place), seeing a potential attack come from CANADIAN CITIZENS disgusts me. But police can't plant 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate and people who live entirely away from Farm Country have NO need for it.

The Chinese community didn't rally around Cecilia Zhang's killers because it was a disgusting crime. This, even if the crime was not committed, was a disgusting plot and the Muslim community shouldn't be rallying around them just because of their Faith.
Imagine the response were these people white and instead of killing all these people for teh glory of Allah (PBUH) they were doing it for God because Canada loves fags and allows women to kill their unborn babies. What if they were planning to blow up abortion clinics instead of landmarks? There'd be no sympathy and no cries about waiting for a trial. I believe there obviously needs to be a trial, but c'mon. They were caught in a city with three tons of explosives, the necessary equipment to make a bomb, bomb making manuals and horde of documents outlining the fact that they hate Westerners and admired Al Qeada and Osama Bin Laden.

I'm from Brampton, it's not a nice place. I'm even from the "nice" area.
It's a horribly dull, shitty place. Fixing up the mall doesn't change that fact.

One could say the same thing about Markham. :rolleyes:

Imagine the response were these people white and instead of killing all these people for teh glory of Allah (PBUH) they were doing it for God because Canada loves fags and allows women to kill their unborn babies. What if they were planning to blow up abortion clinics instead of landmarks? There'd be no sympathy and no cries about waiting for a trial. I believe there obviously needs to be a trial, but c'mon. They were caught in a city with three tons of explosives, the necessary equipment to make a bomb, bomb making manuals and horde of documents outlining the fact that they hate Westerners and admired Al Qeada and Osama Bin Laden.

I cant speak for Canada but when Timothy McVeigh bombed OK City there was pretty much unanimous disapproval in the US.

I'm from Brampton, it's not a hell-hole. It's boring, yup, because all you can do on a Friday night is either get drunk, get high, see a movie, or drive to Toronto. But you've clearly never been to some real horribly dull, shitty places. I learned to love Brampton after driving through Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Wisconsin. You have no idea how good Brampton has it.
I've been to Ohio, my grandparents all live there, it's still better than Brampton. I'll take farmland to suburbs any day.

And doesn't the Bramalea City Centre blow?! That malls hopeless, it's all female clothing stores.
Yeah, the Bramalea Shitty Centre does suck, it used to be alright, but they got rid of the arcade. And I could imagine that it would suck worse for men as there are like three men's clothes stores, but even most of the girl's stores aren't worth the trip.

One could say the same thing about Markham. :rolleyes:
I've never been to Markham. If it's the suburbs then yeah, it probably sucks about the same. Perhaps without the "badass" kids who pretend to be in gangs and run around egging pedestrians in their mom's minivans.

I cant speak for Canada but when Timothy McVeigh bombed OK City there was pretty much unanimous disapproval in the US.
Of course there was. That's not my point. My point is that there seems to be a double standard. If these guys were what I described you wouldn't see posts like, "you don't knwo anything about these guys. Let's wait for a trial. You've already convicted them just because they're Christian." I don't need to abide by "guilty until proven innocent" because my judgement carries no force of law. I think these guys were going to tyr to blow a whole shit load of Canadians to pieces and I hope they get solitary for the rest of their natural lives.

I've been to Ohio, my grandparents all live there, it's still better than Brampton. I'll take farmland to suburbs any day.
Try Gary, Indiana someday. Try the entire State of Indiana someday :P Seriously man, Brampton may be boring but it's a far cry from hell.

Wizards Castle rocked but it always drew the wrong crowds, pissed me off.

Of course there was. That's not my point. My point is that there seems to be a double standard. If these guys were what I described you wouldn't see posts like, "you don't knwo anything about these guys. Let's wait for a trial. You've already convicted them just because they're Christian." I don't need to abide by "guilty until proven innocent" because my judgement carries no force of law. I think these guys were going to tyr to blow a whole shit load of Canadians to pieces and I hope they get solitary for the rest of their natural lives.
I think there are a lot of people who are jumping right to those same conclusions as you are.
I'm just not really saying anything either way because I don't know enough about it and I don't think all the details will be released by the press for quite some time.

And in either case, (if these were christian fundamentalists) judgement should be reserved until all the facts are known. It's not a matter of knowing these guys, it's a matter of knowing all the facts of the case, which we don't know yet.

That being said, it does appear that they are guilty from what has been released so far.

Wizards Castle rocked but it always drew the wrong crowds, pissed me off.
The wrong crowds?
I didn't mind it so much, I went there a lot in highschool, it was alright except when there were early release days and all the kids from the catholic school nearby would go and fill the place up.

I think there are a lot of people who are jumping right to those same conclusions as you are.
I'm just not really saying anything either way because I don't know enough about it and I don't think all the details will be released by the press for quite some time.

And in either case, (if these were christian fundamentalists) judgement should be reserved until all the facts are known. It's not a matter of knowing these guys, it's a matter of knowing all the facts of the case, which we don't know yet.

That being said, it does appear that they are guilty from what has been released so far.
When you catch someone outside a middle school in nothing but a raincoat holding a rag with chloroform and some kiddy porn in his car, even if he hasn't done anything yet and even if he should get a trial, I feel no compunction about calling the guy a sick pervert and hoping the judicial system sees the wisdom of never letting the guy out of jail - even before his trial.

There is no reason under the sun why someone needs an agricultural amount of explosive fertalizer in the city. And when you couple that with the extremist Islamic literature, well, that's just like finding kiddy porn in the guy's car.

When you catch someone outside a middle school in nothing but a raincoat holding a rag with chloroform and some kiddy porn in his car, even if he hasn't done anything yet and even if he should get a trial, I feel no compunction about calling the guy a sick pervert and hoping the judicial system sees the wisdom of never letting the guy out of jail - even before his trial.

There is no reason under the sun why someone needs an agricultural amount of explosive fertalizer in the city. And when you couple that with the extremist Islamic literature, well, that's just like finding kiddy porn in the guy's car.
Well, yes, like I said, from what's been released it looks like they're guilty, but you never know what could happen.

With the example you gave, it's possible the man had a brain tumour that was causing him to act oddly, when the tumour is removed he ceases to be a sick pervert and becomes normal. Or he could have been drugged and placed in such a situation by someone who wanted to frame him. Until all the facts have come out, you can't make a proper decision.

Although if anything, I suspect that these are just the small fish...

What gets me is now that this has taken place all the conservative hawks in the U.S. have come out of their closets and are saying Aha,I told you Canada is a hotbed of Islamic extremists,Let's close the Canadian Border or better still build a fence.They forget that 9-11 terrorists were in their country legally.I'd wish they'd shut up.

What gets me is now that this has taken place all the conservative hawks in the U.S. have come out of their closets and are saying Aha,I told you Canada is a hotbed of Islamic extremists,Let's close the Canadian Border or better still build a fence.They forget that 9-11 terrorists were in their country legally.I'd wish they'd shut up.

Who the heck are you talking about?

What gets me is now that this has taken place all the conservative hawks in the U.S. have come out of their closets and are saying Aha,I told you Canada is a hotbed of Islamic extremists,Let's close the Canadian Border or better still build a fence.They forget that 9-11 terrorists were in their country legally.I'd wish they'd shut up.
Indeed. They act as though there aren't any islamic extremists operating in the US.
Also, did they ever apologize for the initial accusations that the 9/11 terrorists came in from Canada?

Who the heck are you talking about?
The US conservatives who are now freaking out asking to tighten up the border. One guy from Michigan who's against the garbage coming in from Toronto is saying that the garbage trucks should be shut down as they're not checked. It's pretty stupid.

The US conservatives who are now freaking out asking to tighten up the border. One guy from Michigan who's against the garbage coming in from Toronto is saying that the garbage trucks should be shut down as they're not checked. It's pretty stupid.


Who?

Im not denying their existence I want to ridicule them too. but I need to know who to ridicule.

Who?
I dunno, some american politician. I could look into it...

I dunno, some american politician. I could look into it...

thanks

This forum caracterizes why I hate being Canadian. Apart from a few posts with sense to them, this is just a bunch of liberal low-lifes.

This is why I self-identify as an Albertan, not a Canadian.

Im not denying their existence I want to ridicule them too. but I need to know who to ridicule.
http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_4751312,00.html
This article only has one of them quoted, there was a much longer article with a number of US politicians saying that Canada's "loose immigration laws" made us a "hotbed for terrorism" and other such bullshit.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/06/05/looking_for_a_fair_fight.html
Here's another article with some discussion of the border.

Canada naturally fears that terrorists might have taken advantage of the country's long border with the US to plan an attack on American soil. One Republican congressman has already accused Canada's former Liberal administration of being soft on terror. "Americans should be very concerned," said Peter King. "There's a large al-Qaida presence in Canada ... because of their very liberal immigration laws, because of how political asylum is granted so easily."

Most of the article focuses on other issues though, but if you just want to know which politicans to laugh at then here's a start.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/06/05/looking_for_a_fair_fight.html
Here's another article with some discussion of the border.



Most of the article focuses on other issues though, but if you just want to know which politicans to laugh at then here's a start.

Points and laughs at Peter King

Especially for his stance on Canada, also for ending up in the gruniad.

http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_4751312,00.html
This article only has one of them quoted, there was a much longer article with a number of US politicians saying that Canada's "loose immigration laws" made us a "hotbed for terrorism" and other such bullshit.

Points and laughs at Democratic Sen. Carl Levin, for his stance on Canada and for being a US conservative hawk who is now freaking out asking to tighten up the border.

Well this is interesting.

Points and laughs at Democratic Sen. Carl Levin, for his stance on Canada and for being a US conservative hawk who is now freaking out asking to tighten up the border.
I think that this guy's just using this issue as an excuse to shut down the flow of trash from Toronto into Michigan.

Although Toronto should institute 3 bag limits like the rest of the GTA so they won't need to ship their garbage to Michigan.

I think that this guy's just using this issue as an excuse to shut down the flow of trash from Toronto into Michigan.

Although Toronto should institute 3 bag limits like the rest of the GTA so they won't need to ship their garbage to Michigan.

Im about to go vote NIMBY on prop e here against Los Angeles dumping their sewage sludge in my county.

This is why I self-identify as an Albertan, not a Canadian.
I don't know when's the last time you checked the map, but Alberta is a part of Canada. :rolleyes: separatists.

What pisses me off is the amount of people coming out and defending these people. They're not even thinking about the fact that these people conspired to kill tons of our citizens. They're thinking exclusively about the fact that these people are Muslim.

Being Muslim doesn't make you guilty, but it sure as hell doesn't make you innocent, either. If police find 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate in -any- household let alone a Muslim one, they're going to assume someones making a bomb.

Or you're a farmer.

Im about to go vote NIMBY on prop e here against Los Angeles dumping their sewage sludge in my county.
Yeah, but if they found terrorist operating out of LA, you wouldn't be advocating that they shut down the garbage run on the basis that garbage trucks are unsecure and it would be easy to transport bombs.

Yes...

Bombs = scary

Or you're a farmer.

Not where these people were at.

Or you're a farmer.
These guys weren't farmers.

I'm from Brampton, it's not a nice place. I'm even from the "nice" area.
It's a horribly dull, shitty place. Fixing up the mall doesn't change that fact.
So maybe these Muslims will claim they were planning an urban renewal project...

Of course there was. That's not my point. My point is that there seems to be a double standard. If these guys were what I described you wouldn't see posts like, "you don't knwo anything about these guys. Let's wait for a trial. You've already convicted them just because they're Christian." I don't need to abide by "guilty until proven innocent" because my judgement carries no force of law. I think these guys were going to tyr to blow a whole shit load of Canadians to pieces and I hope they get solitary for the rest of their natural lives.

There is a difference. Timothy McVeigh succeeded in blowing up a federal building and killing people, including children. The people arrested in Ontario didn't succeed at anything.

Of course there is going to be more outrage and indignation pointed at McVeigh. But it was only pointed at McVeigh, not at every white militia-bum. And he got a fair trial. Is there something wrong with people asking that not all Muslims be condemned by the plans of a few, and that those involved be allowed to have a fair trial to determine their level of involvement? From what little I heard, some of the young men and youths may not have been knowingly involved in criminal activities, and we won't know for sure until the evidence is presented. I have little doubt about the guilt of the older adults - it's pretty clear that they were both ringleaders and active recruiters, fostering discontent amongst potentially rebellious youth.

Dakini's right, Brampton is a dump. I lived there for a while in the nineties.

These guys weren't farmers.

I'm aware of that. But the earlier poster was saying that 'anyone with 3 tons of [fertilizer] in their possession' must be a bad guy. I was simply pointing out that to a farmer, 3 tons of fertilizer isn't much. However, it IS a lot more difficult to purchase this type of fertilizer in Canada these days - that's one reason the group had to purchase it from the U.S.

So maybe these Muslims will claim they were planning an urban renewal project...
They were planning attacks on Toronto and Ottawa.

They were planning attacks on Toronto and Ottawa.

He was being sarcastic Dakini. We all know that they were planning attacks on Toronto and Ottawa.

Dakini's right, Brampton is a dump. I lived there for a while in the nineties.
Really? You've had the misfortune of living in Brampton too? Whereabouts?

He was being sarcastic Dakini. We all know that they were planning attacks on Toronto and Ottawa.
Well, I figured he was joking somewhat.

There's nothing worth blowing up in Brampton.

the guy wanted to go for Dick Cheany (different country, I know) but, well, ask that lawyer from Texas what it feels like to mess with Cheany.
for the uninformed----
Lawyer sneaks up on Cheany.
Cheany has a shotgun.
You can figgure out the rest for
yourself. :eek: :sniper:

Really? You've had the misfortune of living in Brampton too? Whereabouts?
I lived just north of the main campus of Sheridan, in the subdivision immediately to the west of Shopper's World. Forgive me if I can't recall the name of the street (they all looked alike anyway) - but it was a typical grey-brick model r2000 fully-detached monster home, where I was renting some rooms with a classmate, in the basement.

I remember the park along the creek, though; and all the thousands of feral rabbits. That was pretty much the highlight of the time I spent there.

Yeah, but if they found terrorist operating out of LA, you wouldn't be advocating that they shut down the garbage run on the basis that garbage trucks are unsecure and it would be easy to transport bombs.

No I wouldnt. You are correct.

There is a difference. Timothy McVeigh succeeded in blowing up a federal building and killing people, including children. The people arrested in Ontario didn't succeed at anything.



They succeeded in gathering up ammonium nitrate like Mc Veigh did. Im guessing they had the means to get enough diesel fuel to complete the project

Well, I've been following the story in the papers (Globe, Star, Sun) and the television (CBC news, South Asian News (CFMT), CTV news, and Newsworld) and... what can I say? These guys seem to be just incredibly guilty.

I guess the Mounties (and CSIS) really did get their men. I think I feel better knowing they did. But really - some of the schemes so far mentioned are so incredulous as to be frankly laughable. Beheading Stevie Harper? Piffle.

Taking out the TSE, on the other hand, is quite credible and do-able. That's more the thing to be concerned about. Nobody's going to be lopping off the PMs head any time soon, no matter how much of an asshole he happens to be. And anyway, that sort of thing is best left to the electorate.

I think it's fair to ask, who doesn't want to behead Steven Harper?

Well, yes, like I said, from what's been released it looks like they're guilty, but you never know what could happen.

With the example you gave, it's possible the man had a brain tumour that was causing him to act oddly, when the tumour is removed he ceases to be a sick pervert and becomes normal. Or he could have been drugged and placed in such a situation by someone who wanted to frame him. Until all the facts have come out, you can't make a proper decision.

Although if anything, I suspect that these are just the small fish...
Okay, fine. When you catch 17 old men standing outside a middle school who's friends tell you are al perverts...

All that would have done is piss off the Canadians. Now, the Canadians have hockey players. You do NOT want to piss those guys off. Thankfully, I don't have personal experience in this matter.

And we CAN'T build a fence along the border. Under the US-Canadian treaty of whenever, the border cannot be fortified.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060606.wsuspects0606_1/BNStory/National/home
All of the 12 adults arrested Friday and Saturday face charges of being part of a terrorist organization. Six of the men were charged with plotting to set off a bomb and cause serious bodily harm.

Nine of those arrested also face charges of receiving training from a terrorist group, although only four were indicted for allegedly recruiting and training people.

Three others face series of weapons charges, including attempting to import weapons and to purchase three prohibited weapons and 182 rounds of ammunition.

Each of the charges carries a maximum sentence of 10 years.

Five youths have also been arrested in connection with the alleged plot, but details of their charges have yet to be released.

In total, 10 men and five teenagers were taken into custody late Friday and early Saturday in the Greater Toronto Area in co-ordinated raids that involved more than 400 officers. Two other suspects — Mohammed Dirie, 22, and Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24 — were already in custody in Kingston on separate offences.

Police have alleged that the plot involved the purchase of three tonnes of ammonium nitrate, intended to use in strikes on targets. A similar compound was used by Timothy McVeigh in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombings that killed 168 people.

So far, the police have refused to identify the alleged targets. Media reports have suggested both the Peace Tower and the Parliament buildings in Ottawa, and the Toronto Stock Exchange and CSIS headquarters in Toronto may have been in the suspects' sites. Toronto Mayor David Miller has insisted that the Toronto Transit Commission was not on the list.

Assistant RCMP Commissioner Mike McDonell said Monday that it was possible that more people involved in the plot could be taken into custody in the coming days as the investigation unfolds.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/06/suspects-hearing.html
Ten of the men are charged with engaging in terrorism-related training. Residents in Ramara reported hearing gunshots from an area where men were seen dressed in camouflage gear.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060606.TERRORYOUTH06/TPStory
The friendly zealot
All the Muslim kids hanging out in the parking lot of Meadowvale Secondary School know about Qayyum Jamal. 'He's the nicest man I ever met,' one said. Yet even before the 43-year-old was accused of plotting to blow up parts of Southern Ontario, some parents were beginning to worry about his growing influence over their teenagers.

GREG MCARTHUR , OMAR EL AKKAD and JOE FRIESEN

MISSISSAUGA -- In Browntown, the name the Muslim students have given to a parking-lot hangout at Meadowvale Secondary School, all the kids talk about Qayyum Jamal like he's one of them.

They have stories about all the times he joined them for soccer games and cricket matches, and all the lessons he gave at a nearby mosque. "He's the nicest person I ever met," one teen said.

But Mr. Jamal is not one of them -- he is a 43-year-old devout Muslim man accused of plotting to blow up sites in Southern Ontario, and how this adult became a fixture in the lives of some of Mississauga's teenage Muslims is a question that is starting to bother many adults in the community.

Of all the names and ages listed by the RCMP in the alleged terrorist conspiracy, Mr. Jamal's is the most jarring. The former factory worker is double the age of most of his alleged co-conspirators, six of whom attended the same strip mall mosque where Mr. Jamal sometimes led prayers, the Al-Rahman Islamic Centre.

One of the mosque's board members, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said a few parents barred their children recently from attending the mosque because they were worried about Mr. Jamal's growing influence. If Mr. Jamal is guilty of terrorist scheming, the centre will have to shoulder "some blame" for allowing him to propagate his hard-line version of Islam on vulnerable young minds, the board member told The Globe.

"In that sense, maybe we should be more vigilant," he said. "If something happened on your watch, even though you may not be condoning it or promoting it, you have to be careful."

At most mosques, it's not difficult to gain access to teens because of the lack of organizational structure, officials with the Al-Rahman centre said. Unlike a church, there is no hierarchy and few official positions. If someone volunteers to clean the carpets -- as Mr. Jamal did more than five years ago when he moved to Mississauga -- he is welcomed and encouraged, said Tariq Shah, a lawyer who has been speaking on behalf of the mosque since the raids last weekend.

But the board of directors knew how angry Mr. Jamal became when he discussed world politics. During a recent visit by Liberal MP Wajid Khan, the two got into a public argument when Mr. Jamal, who was supposed to introduce Mr. Khan, attacked the Canadian military's mission in Afghanistan. When Faheem Bukhari once dropped by the mosque to campaign on behalf of Mr. Khan, Mr. Jamal told the man that participating in Canadian politics was haram, forbidden, under Islamic law, Mr. Bukhari said.

The mosque's directors were also witness to the time he was spending with some of the other accused, young men such as Saad Khalid, a first-year business student at the University of Toronto's Erindale campus in Mississauga, and Zakaria Amara, whose 1992 Acura is still parked at Mr. Jamal's home.

And if anyone talked to Mr. Jamal's neighbours, they would relate a similar story. From her vantage across the street from Mr. Jamal's bungalow, Kim Bastarache could see all the young men filing in and out of the house. She always had suspicions about Mr. Jamal -- he rarely spoke or smiled at his non-Muslim neighbours -- and when she saw a cardboard box leaning against his house with an illustration of a rifle on the side of it, she became even more alarmed.

As for how and why Mr. Jamal came to Canada, it's unclear.

He is from Karachi[that's in Pakistan], and had a first wife who died of an unknown illness. One of the mosque's board members told The Globe that this is how Mr. Jamal met his future second wife, a Caucasian, Canadian convert to Islam who was tasked with looking after Mr. Jamal's dying wife. The wedding was performed in front of the first wife before she died, the board member told The Globe.

His second wife, Cheryfa Macaulay Jamal, 44, is very devout.

She always wears a burka, concealing everything but her eyes from the public. She has also advocated for Islam through a group called the Toronto District Muslim Education Assembly.

In May, 2000, she gave a presentation to the Toronto District School Board, demanding that teachers give parents ample notice if they planned to teach any material that promoted "homosexual or bisexual lifestyles, or sexual promiscuity."

Much like the Jamals' neighbours, the school board had a difficult time having a dialogue with Mrs. Jamal and her group.

"They had quite a rabble around them -- most unpleasant people," said Shelia Ward, who was a member of the board in 2000 and is now the chair.

Ms. Ward remembers them making presentations and feeling compelled to leave the room.

"I'm not going to dignify that kind of crap by listening to it or taking it seriously."

But, according to the allegations authorities have levelled, the young posse that surrounded Mr. Jamal did take his words seriously. And it appears there could have been more.

While 38 of 203 Meadowvale students thanked Allah in the short message that accompanied their graduation photo in the 2005 yearbook, 11 added stylized variations on the following expression: "Before us, there were many . . . after us, there will be none . . . we are the ones.":rolleyes:

The story swirling around Mr. Jamal should be a warning cry to all Muslims to take a more active role in their mosque, and prompt them to ask questions about the people who surround their children, said Mr. Bukhari, director of the Mississauga Muslim Community Centre.

The Al-Rahman board member who spoke to The Globe agreed.

"Maybe the people who withdrew their children are more protective," he said.

"God forbid, Qayyum Jamal was conspiring something like this, then my hat's off to those parents for looking ahead and thinking about it. Everyone should be careful."


Here's the usual responses...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060605.terror-court05/BNStory/National/home

A gathering of familiar faces at Brampton courthouse

COLIN FREEZE

From Monday's Globe and Mail

BRAMPTON — Canada's hard-line Muslims can seem a pretty tight-knit group at times. As a long line of completely new terrorism suspects were being shuffled in and out of the prisoner's box, there were many familiar faces looking on in the courtroom.

In the visitors' gallery Saturday morning sat Zaynab Khadr, the sister of Abdullah Khadr, who is fighting extradition to the United States. He is accused of supplying weapons to al-Qaeda.

Ms. Khadr, who once expressed an admiration for suicide bombers on national TV, sat looking at the prisoner's box, speaking Arabic with Aly Hindy, a controversial fundamentalist preacher.

Having had many of their own run-ins with the RCMP and CSIS, Ms. Khadr and Mr. Hindy were intent on doing what they could for the families of the newly accused.

One such man was Tariq Abdelhaleem.

"Hello," he said, looking shattered beyond words, as a reporter approached. "It's my son."

This was stunning. I had gotten to know Mr. Abdelhaleem last year, after he issued a controversial fatwa against too much innovation in Islam.

The imam was worried that Toronto's Muslims were not sticking to scripture and were also becoming unmindful of the real problems in the world.

"Our Muslim brothers and sisters are dying in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Chechnya and other parts of the world," he had written at the time on his website.

"The puppet systems that are in power in the Islamic world are collaborating with the Crusaders and Zionists to keep the ummah [Muslim community] under oppression."
..
Defence lawyer Rocco Galati, who has worked on a number of terrorism cases, said he is unimpressed by this one. "Big whoop-de-do," said Mr. Galati outside court, referring to the government evidence.

"I've seen a lot of fertilizer over the last eight years," he joked.:rolleyes:

There is a contingent of people who will always believe Muslims are more often victims of conspiracies than perpetrators. Mr. Galati is in this camp. And certainly Mr. Hindy, the controversial leader of the Salaheddin Islamic Centre, feels that way too.

"Are we now the enemy within? We completely reject that," Mr. Hindy said, outside court. The imam said that because "Afghanistan is closed now," CSIS and the RCMP are targeting young Canadian Muslims, just so that departments can justify their budgets.

"This is to keep George W. Bush happy, that's all," he scoffed.

Mr. Hindy said he knew about half of the defendants, mostly from the times when they used to pray at his mosque. He conceded there might be one or two troublemakers in the group, but predicted most of the accused would be acquitted.

More worrisome, the imam said, was the direction Canada is headed. Devout Muslims, he said, are at the moment more free to practise religion in Canada than in states like Egypt that crack down on fundamentalists. Mr. Hindy is afraid authorities here will round up people indiscriminately.

As for Zaynab Khadr, she wasn't saying much. The family's exploits in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Canada are by now legendary. Her father, a friend of Osama bin Laden, was killed by the Pakistani government. Her eldest brother was arrested last year by the RCMP as the United States seeks his extradition on terrorism charges. Her second-youngest brother is awaiting murder charges in the legal limbo that is Guantanamo Bay.

In court, Ms. Khadr seemed content to look after two other young women also wearing full, black head-to-toe Islamic dress. One of them yelped as a teenager appeared in the prisoner's box, pointing out he was without his prescription eyewear. The judge said he'd try to make sure the suspect would get his glasses. And then he vowed that every suspect would get a Koran, as consistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Like everyone else who entered the courtroom, Ms. Khadr and her friends left under the gaze of a gauntlet of assault-rifle-toting police officers, and were swarmed by reporters who asked them questions.

"Don't talk," Ms. Khadr yelled to one suspect's brother as she and her friend made their way to her Green 1997 Pontiac minivan.

And with that, they drove away.

Assuming its truth, I think the would-be terrorists were being a bit to foolhardy when they came up with this one. It sounds as though these guys were doing a lot of macho-islamist fantasizing.
______________________________________

CBC Report:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/06/suspects-hearing.html

"One of the suspects in an alleged bomb plot in Ontario is accused of wanting to storm Parliament, behead the prime minister and attack a number of sites, including the CBC building in Toronto, his lawyer says."

"Batasar said he was given an eight-page synopsis of the allegations, including storming Parliament, blowing up some of the buildings and taking politicians hostage to demand the withdrawal of Canadian troops in Afghanistan. If the demands were not met, it is alleged, Chand wanted to behead Stephen Harper."

Bah, I'd be pissed off if they bushwhacked the canadian PM. He ain't my PM but he's a leader of our northern neighbor and he is needed to keep the country stable.


I guess this is why the PM of Canada doesn't have bodyguards.

Violence is baaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

They succeeded in gathering up ammonium nitrate like Mc Veigh did. Im guessing they had the means to get enough diesel fuel to complete the project
Sold to them by the RCMP as part of the sting operation.

Bah, I'd be pissed off if they bushwhacked the canadian PM. He ain't my PM but he's a leader of our northern neighbor and he is needed to keep the country stable.
Besides, most of us would like to keep our "Prime Minister Assassination Rate" to 0.

Sold to them by the RCMP as part of the sting operation.
Do you suppose the Mounties got it wholesale from the RCMP Musical Ride?

Besides, most of us would like to keep our "Prime Minister Assassination Rate" to 0.
Unlike most Canadians on here, I actually am a Conservative, and it would especially suck for people like me if that were to happen. In all honesty, these terrorists just handed Harper the next election on a silver platter. The NDP and Bloc aren't going to do well if they're seen to be soft on terror, and the Liberals... well, they're Liberals.

And it was mentioned earlier, but I didn't see a response: they wanted to storm the CBC so that they could broadcast their messages/demands on national TV and radio.

People like these almost make me wish that we still had the death penalty. Almost.

Sold to them by the RCMP as part of the sting operation.
That doesn't let them off the hook.

It merely demonstrates their intent to acquire something like that for an illegal purpose. They're screwed.

There is a difference. Timothy McVeigh succeeded in blowing up a federal building and killing people, including children. The people arrested in Ontario didn't succeed at anything.

Of course there is going to be more outrage and indignation pointed at McVeigh. But it was only pointed at McVeigh, not at every white militia-bum. And he got a fair trial. Is there something wrong with people asking that not all Muslims be condemned by the plans of a few, and that those involved be allowed to have a fair trial to determine their level of involvement? From what little I heard, some of the young men and youths may not have been knowingly involved in criminal activities, and we won't know for sure until the evidence is presented. I have little doubt about the guilt of the older adults - it's pretty clear that they were both ringleaders and active recruiters, fostering discontent amongst potentially rebellious youth.
They're not asking that all Muslims be given benefit of the doubt. They're asking that these particular likely terrorists be given the benefit of the doubt in public opinion, something Timothy McVeight didn't get and he didn't get it because he's a white Christian. I didn't give him benefit of teh doubt, either and I wont give it to these guys. My opinion carries no force of law so I feel no compunction about expressing it publically, just as I did when they caught McVeigh.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060607.TERRORFAHIM07/TPStory/
How the police watched the plan unfold
Fahim Ahmad group's alleged 'emir'

COLIN FREEZE

TORONTO -- It's alleged that they called their project Operation Badr. And before its unravelling gripped the world's attention on the weekend, it made quieter noises that police say they picked up on: a seemingly inconsequential gun seizure at the Canada-U.S. border; a gunshot near Cochrane in Northern Ontario; bullets shattering statues of Hindu gods during a target practice[you can take a packee out of packeestan but...] in a remote area in the Township of Ramara, Ont.; and the printing of business cards with a decidedly non-threatening e-mail address, Studentfarmers@hotmail.com.

According to a copy of a Crown synopsis viewed yesterday by The Globe and Mail, police have months worth of surveillance, communication intercepts and physical evidence that were amassed before a monitored buy of $4,000 worth of ammonium nitrate fertilizer on Friday. This sting is said to be the final chapter of months of dogged police work, leading to the arrest of 17 suspects.

None of the evidence has been tested in court and all suspects are presumed innocent until proved guilty. Indeed, most of the suspects have minor roles in a plot that appears to have two ringleaders. Still, the eight-page Crown dossier is thick with allegations.

The upshot? The police and spies who caught wind of this were as meticulous as their targets were ambitious.

It has been called a made-in Canada plot against Canadian targets, but this is only half the story. It's alleged the group's emir, or leader, was Fahim Ahmad, and that he was in touch with shadowy terrorist figures in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Britain.

But the bulk of the action occurs entirely within Ontario.

Mr. Ahmad, who faces the most charges of any suspect, cuts a distinctive figure in the Crown dossier. He is accused of bearing the brunt of the responsibility for the gun-running, the training and the final phase of the operation, a series of ammonium-nitrate truck bombs to be exploded against Canadian targets.

According to Crown information, the group discussed many possible targets before settling on three main ones: an unspecified Canadian Forces base, the Toronto Stock Exchange and the downtown Toronto office of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

According to Aly Hindy of the Salaheddin Islamic Centre, Mr. Ahmad blamed constant spying by CSIS for forcing him into criminal activity.:rolleyes:
[somebody explain this logic to me...]
In August, 2005, two young men were stopped at the Canada-U.S. border and searched. Authorities found three handguns, boxes of ammunition and even a bullet stashed in a sock.

The men, Mohammed Dirie and Yasim Mohamed, told authorities they bought the weapons from a drug addict in Columbus, Ohio, for "protection" from criminals. They were sentenced to two years each.

The smuggling incident was brought to the attention of the RCMP-led Integrated National Security Enforcement Team.

They noted that the car intercepted at the border was a rental. And, according to the Crown dossier, the credit card used to obtain the vehicle belonged to one Fahim Ahmad.

It was at that point that authorities began to regard the case as much, much more than a gun-smuggling incident.

Mr. Ahmad had such a radical, Internet-influenced approach to Islam that even Mr. Hindy regards him with suspicion.

According to Mr. Hindy, the young man told him of renting a car for a gun-smuggling operation. Mr. Hindy said he called some Toronto undercover police detectives he knew, and reported on Mr. Ahmad's alleged involvement.

Mr. Hindy was stunned to see the suspect keep returning to the mosque: Why hadn't police done anything?

But according to the Crown dossier seen by The Globe, police were doing a lot: They were watching Mr. Ahmad's communications, and came to believe he was talking to overseas figures with ties to international terrorism; they were trying to tie him to two Georgia-based terrorism suspects who had visited Toronto that spring; and they were keeping a close eye on the Toronto-area circles he moved in.

As the summer of 2005 turned to fall, it is alleged that Mr. Ahmed increasingly drew upon a fellow suspect, Zakaria Amara. According to the dossier, he sent him to Cochrane, Ont., to scout out a possible location for a training camp.

It is alleged that Mr. Amara was spotted approaching government offices in the far Northern Ontario community. Someone claims to have heard him fire off two shots with a shotgun.

Police allege he returned back to brief the emir on his travels. In the end, the location was not suitable. A community closer to Toronto was chosen.

It is alleged that the ringleaders had amassed a number of followers, including young men in their late teens. Police say they wanted to become jihadis.

Two guns may have been seized at the border, but the group had access to a 9 mm Luger, according to police. They also had an air rifle and a paintball gun. Strangely, by this time, CSIS had long since released a discussion paper under the Access to Information Act, indicating it was keeping tabs on young extremists playing paintball.

The training started on Dec. 18 and finished on Christmas Day, according to the Crown information. Sentries were posted around the Ramara camp 24/7. Police say the group shot at statues of Hindu gods for target practice.[packeeness...] In quieter moments, it is alleged they reviewed jihadist videos and talked. They even had a course in confidence building, according to the Crown dossier.

According to the document, they had a name for their project: Operation Badr.[look up battle of Badr, it is very significant in muslim history] A list of possible targets was overheard, according to the Crown synopsis.

The Parliament buildings are said to have came up. So did the Toronto headquarters of the CBC and RCMP headquarters in Ottawa. So, too, did the notion of taking politicians hostage. (One lawyer's assertion yesterday that his client stands accused of plotting to "behead" Prime Minister Stephen Harper was not seen in the document The Globe viewed yesterday.)

As the Canadian Forces mission in Afghanistan began to ramp up, the group talked of hitting a military base back home, the dossier states.

And then there was CSIS: Police say they picked up conversations targeting the spy service at its downtown Toronto offices or possibly its Ottawa headquarters.

In one conversation, police say they overheard concerns about whether the Toronto office was appropriate. One suspect allegedly said he didn't care whether the attack caused mass casualties on the street.

Police assert the attacks would be multiple, and simultaneous, for maximum effect. It is alleged the explosions were to be delivered by truck bombs.

But tensions began to arise within the group, according to the Crown dossier. It is alleged that Mr. Amara grew impatient that Mr. Ahmad was not moving fast enough.

Mr. Amara, who lived on the other side of the Toronto area, in Mississauga, is alleged to have joined forces with a charismatic figure at a local Islamic centre: Qayyum Jamal. With the help of the 43-year-old, Mr. Amara surrounded himself with a small group of young men and teenagers.

It is alleged that Mr. Amara was seen hatching plans to buy a detonator and researching bomb construction in public libraries. From the beginning, the bomb was said to be big: 1.5 tonnes of ammonium nitrate, according to police, mixed with several litres of nitric acid to get the explosion going.

Police monitor large purchases of such substances. But what if a lot of people make individual purchases? The Crown alleges a plot manifested itself with 200 business cards that would allow suspects to approach suppliers individually and acquire smaller batches. The Crown says the e-mail address had a memorable ring: Studentfarmers@hotmail.com.

Then there was a change of plan. The Crown alleges Mr. Amara brought in another Mississauga man, Shareef Abdelhaleem, to assist with buying thousands of dollars worth of fertilizer.

According to the Crown information, a police agent was on the opposite end of a payment of $2,000. After that point, the operatives are alleged to have rented a house and industrial storage unit.

There is a second payment recorded by Crown officials. It was for $4,000 and it took place on June, 2, 2006 -- the day of the arrests.

link to Brit-Pakistani in Bradfordstan.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10693303/
Report: U.K. arrests man linked to Canada plot
BBC: Officials questioning Pakistani in connection with Canada arrests
LONDON - British police said on Wednesday they had arrested a man under anti-terrorism powers at an airport in northern England, an operation the BBC reported was linked to a security swoop last week in Canada.

A 21-year-old man from Bradford was detained at Manchester Airport late on Tuesday and has been taken to a police station in West Yorkshire, a police spokesman said.

The BBC, citing unnamed sources, said the man, believed to be of Pakistani origin, was being questioned in connection with the arrest last week of 17 Muslim men in Canada’s largest counter-terrorism operation.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060607.TERRORFAHIM07/TPStory/


link to Brit-Pakistani in Bradfordstan.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10693303/
Report: U.K. arrests man linked to Canada plot
BBC: Officials questioning Pakistani in connection with Canada arrests

Don't waste your breath Aryavartha. A lot of the liberals on this forum think the "poor fellows" haven't done a thing, and that they are merely being framed by the government.

Actually, the guy above is Hashmi - a US citizen. Another guy has been arrested in UK and is alleged to be connected to this.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12945754/
British Arrests May Be Tied to Canada Plot

DEWSBURY, England - Police in Britain arrested a 21-year-old man and a 16-year-old youth as terrorist suspects, and were conducting searches at three locations, authorities said Wednesday.
..
Hashmi, a resident of New York's Queens borough, was arrested by the Metropolitan Police Extradition Unit on Tuesday night at Heathrow airport as he prepared to board a flight to Pakistan, prosecutors said.

Prosecuting attorney Laura Rosefield, representing the United States, said Hashmi was accused of supplying military equipment and currency to al-Qaida operatives in Afghanistan.

She said he was carrying "a large amount of cash" when he was arrested.

Rosefield said Hashmi was a U.S. citizen who had lived in Britain since 2003, though his student visa had expired.

The U.S. indictment alleged that Hashmi and others conspired to provide, and then actually provided, material support or resources to al-Qaida between January 2004 and last month.

Don't waste your breath Aryavartha. A lot of the liberals on this forum think the "poor fellows" haven't done a thing, and that they are merely being framed by the government.

I am expecting Tactical Grace, the mod, to step in with his usual "you are racist against p*kis" and "you are pushing politically moticated statements" or some such tripe.

I am actually enjoying the irony in this episode.

Canada could not convict the three Khalistani terrorists who blew up 329 passengers of the Kanishka airplane. They will reap what they sow.

I heard about this on the Daily Show, i dont why they would want to attack Canada though...

They're not asking that all Muslims be given benefit of the doubt. They're asking that these particular likely terrorists be given the benefit of the doubt in public opinion, something Timothy McVeight didn't get and he didn't get it because he's a white Christian. I didn't give him benefit of teh doubt, either and I wont give it to these guys. My opinion carries no force of law so I feel no compunction about expressing it publically, just as I did when they caught McVeigh.

Innocent until presumed guilty is still the basis of our criminal justice system.

All I'm saying is that we should recognize that some of the youths may not yet have realized that they were being recruited by a terrorist group. An article in the Canadian press said that one of the older adults was a respected leader in a Muslim temple who tried to recruit disaffected youths through fun social activities, such as white water rafting, paintball, camping - the sort of thing religious leaders of many faiths do with young people. Only these guys were not running the normal sort of youth group.

It's the same tactics pimps use to recruit teenage girls as prostitutes. They don't go up to girls and say, "Hey baby, wanna be a ho?". No, they flatter them and invite them to parties, and buy them things, then start to offer them drugs and then introduce them to older men...

These are examples where 'the slippery slope' really does come into play.

Oh, and we should also remember that the police found out about this group 2 years ago when a Muslim teen informed them that there was something weird going on. (This was reported in the Toronto Star on Monday, but regretably the link to the story doesn't work anymore, and I couldn't find it after a search.)

I am expecting Tactical Grace, the mod, to step in with his usual "you are racist against p*kis" and "you are pushing politically moticated statements" or some such tripe.

I am actually enjoying the irony in this episode.

Canada could not convict the three Khalistani terrorists who blew up 329 passengers of the Kanishka airplane. They will reap what they sow.
Pretty interesting reading.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/airindia/key_characters.html

Usually.

But why else would they want to attack the CBC?


They wanted to attack the CBC because they wanted to behead Harper on live television. What a bunch of damn retards, I doubt these Hajis could even turn on a TV. :mp5:

That doesn't let them off the hook.

It merely demonstrates their intent to acquire something like that for an illegal purpose. They're screwed.

Oh no, I am not saying that they should be let off the hook. Those who are guilty should have the book thrown at them. The RCMP did an excellent job.

What I am saying is that they weren't successful. We can compare them to Timothy McVeigh all we want, but they didn't actually blow anything up or kill anyone. Yes, they should be tried, and the guilty convicted of the things they are accused of: gun smuggling or recruiting on behalf of a terrorist organization, or plotting to commit terrorist acts, or being trained to become terrorists.

The guilty must go to jail. No doubt about it. Thank God the evidence in this investigation didn't get messed up in juridictional battles between the RCMP and CSIS like the Air India farce did. But we can only convict them for the crimes the actually committed, not just ones they fantasized about but never attempted.

Oh no, I am not saying that they should be let off the hook. Those who are guilty should have the book thrown at them. The RCMP did an excellent job.

What I am saying is that they weren't successful. We can compare them to Timothy McVeigh all we want, but they didn't actually blow anything up or kill anyone. Yes, they should be tried, and the guilty convicted of the things they are accused of: gun smuggling or recruiting on behalf of a terrorist organization, or plotting to commit terrorist acts, or being trained to become terrorists.

The guilty must go to jail. No doubt about it. Thank God the evidence in this investigation didn't get messed up in juridictional battles between the RCMP and CSIS like the Air India farce did. But we can only convict them for the crimes the actually committed, not just ones they fantasized about but never attempted.

The crime is called "conspiracy".

The crime is called "conspiracy".

But not all of them are being charged with conspiracy, which is why I listed a number of charges.
Six are accused of plotting to bomb several unidentified buildings in Canada. Others are charged with running training camps, receiving terrorist training and attempting to smuggle weapons from the United States across the border.

*snip*All I'm saying...*snip*
That's not all that's being said. Read the thread and what you read is a cry for moderation and sympathy the planners and likely perpetrators of what in any reasonable person's mind was an obvious plot to try to kill hundreds, maybe thousands of people who's crime was being Canadian and who made the unfortunate decision to go to work or school on the day this plot was to be carried out. Very few of these people's defenders in this thread drew the destinction between the youths involved and the adults, which is dubious anyway because it's not as though these kids were 11, they were almost adults themselves. What people in this thread have been harping on is an appeal to racism for anyone who dared condemn these people and their planned attacks because the people who were planning on killing all these people were brown skinned Muslims, nevermind the number of brown skinned people who would have been killed.

The evidence is pretty overwhelming. When you have childhood friends saying things like, "yeah we used to play soccer together and then he started to get all militant and started talking about blowing stuff up," and you have $4,000 worth of explosive fertalizer in a city along with boxes of cellphones and flashlights and Islamic militant literature... need I go on?

BTW - When you are out and about and you see a bunch of neonazi teenagers throwing Hitler salutes up with their swastikaz on their bomber jackets I expect you to show them no ill will or judgement. They're just misguided youth who have been brainwashed.

Whether you see it or want to admit it or what, there is a double standard on the part of the left when it comes to Muslims and white people when it comes to these kinds of cases. Muslims, responsible for the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks on the last 20 or 30 years, are innocent victims of racial profiling and white Christians are a bunch of evil racist bastards guilty of everything you can think of.

That's not all that's being said. Read the thread and what you read is a cry for moderation and sympathy the planners and likely perpetrators of what in any reasonable person's mind was an obvious plot to try to kill hundreds, maybe thousands of people who's crime was being Canadian and who made the unfortunate decision to go to work or school on the day this plot was to be carried out. Very few of these people's defenders in this thread drew the destinction between the youths involved and the adults, which is dubious anyway because it's not as though these kids were 11, they were almost adults themselves. What people in this thread have been harping on is an appeal to racism for anyone who dared condemn these people and their planned attacks because the people who were planning on killing all these people were brown skinned Muslims, nevermind the number of brown skinned people who would have been killed.

The evidence is pretty overwhelming. When you have childhood friends saying things like, "yeah we used to play soccer together and then he started to get all militant and started talking about blowing stuff up," and you have $4,000 worth of explosive fertalizer in a city along with boxes of cellphones and flashlights and Islamic militant literature... need I go on?

BTW - When you are out and about and you see a bunch of neonazi teenagers throwing Hitler salutes up with their swastikaz on their bomber jackets I expect you to show them no ill will or judgement. They're just misguided youth who have been brainwashed.

Whether you see it or want to admit it or what, there is a double standard on the part of the left when it comes to Muslims and white people when it comes to these kinds of cases. Muslims, responsible for the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks on the last 20 or 30 years, are innocent victims of racial profiling and white Christians are a bunch of evil racist bastards guilty of everything you can think of.

Frankly, having been a misguided youth myself at one time, I'm familiar with how the 'slippery slope' works. I'm also familiar with how adults can manipulate disaffected teens. My personal take on it has nothing to do with the race of the accused, but I admit to some concerns about the youthfulness of some of those concerned. I want justice done. I want the guilty charged. But I don't want any false accusations either.

When I read things like: "Camping, canoeing, white-water rafting, paintballing and other outward bound-type activities are of particular interest because they appear common factors for the 7 July bombers and other cells disrupted previously and since," noted the British report. I recognize that these are the sorts of activities that any teenager would think are fun, and that yes, adults with malicious intent could use as 'ice breakers' for luring disaffected teens, just like the pimps who invite young girls to parties.

On the other hand, I have confidence that the evidence presented will result in the convictions of the guilty, and hope that there will be enough evidence presented that the jury can determine whether 'receiving terrorist training' really was, or whether some kids just thought they were being invited to a rifle range. (The Christian camp I attended as a kid offered both riflery and archery as activities - and canoing and camping and no one thought we were possibly undergoing terrorist training to bomb abortion clinics. Of course, we weren't, but I can't ignore the comparison of activities between the Muslim youth group and the Christian youth group I attended, especially since some of our adult leaders advocated nasty things being done to gay people.)

..... hope that there will be enough evidence presented that the jury can determine whether 'receiving terrorist training' really was, or whether some kids just thought they were being invited to a rifle range. (The Christian camp I attended as a kid offered both riflery and archery as activities - and canoing and camping and no one thought we were possibly undergoing terrorist training to bomb abortion clinics. Of course, we weren't, but I can't ignore the comparison of activities between the Muslim youth group and the Christian youth group I attended, especially since some of our adult leaders advocated nasty things being done to gay people.)

But you weren't shooting up targets of dummies with pink shirts, did you? :p ;)

Police say the group shot at statues of Hindu gods for target practice

Pretty interesting reading.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/airindia/key_characters.html

A lot of Khalistani terrorists had links in Canada. The Canadians never really looked at it as a threat (a la Britain's erstwhile tacit understanding with islamists...as long as you bomb others only, I don't care, just don't do anything here..)..

329 people were killed in that plane. It took more than a decade for the case to conclude and finally the Canadian court said not guilty and the terrorists are now roaming free. Exactly the kind of message you want to send to future planners.

Added later: Did you read reactions from the victims families?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/airindia/reaction_victimsfamilies.html

But you weren't shooting up targets of dummies with pink shirts, did you? :p ;) No, although one time I was accused of hitting a bird. (Turned out that it was just a leaf that fell from a tree at more or less the same time as I shot, so I'm not a tweetie murderer either.)


(and by the way, at this point we don't know the extent of the training the youths got. It'll come out in court, I'm sure.)


On another note, from the Globe and Mail:The RCMP has quietly broken up at least a dozen terrorist groups in the past two years, according to documents obtained by The Globe and Mail.

"We have completed 12 disruptions of national-level terrorist groups across the country," the Mounties say in briefing notes prepared for Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day.

Disruptive tactics -- sometimes as simple as letting targets know they are under close surveillance -- are used to prevent a terrorist attack when the police do not have enough evidence to lay criminal charges, the RCMP and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service say.

Kudos to the RCMP and CSIS! Jobs well done!

A lot of Khalistani terrorists had links in Canada. The Canadians never really looked at it as a threat (a la Britain's erstwhile tacit understanding with islamists...as long as you bomb others only, I don't care, just don't do anything here..)..

329 people were killed in that plane. It took more than a decade for the case to conclude and finally the Canadian court said not guilty and the terrorists are now roaming free. Exactly the kind of message you want to send to future planners.

Added later: Did you read reactions from the victims families?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/airindia/reaction_victimsfamilies.html

The whole Air India thing was a fracking disgrace. Thank God CSIS and the RCMP have learned to cooperate and do the job right since then. But what a price for innocent people to pay for them to learn their lesson. I can't believe that the RCMP and CSIS had these guys under surveillance but then botched it up so bad.

On another note, from the Globe and Mail:

Kudos to the RCMP and CSIS! Jobs well done!

Yeah, people tend to get alert when it is their country that is being/going to be bombed.


referring to the Kanishka incident.

Yeah, people tend to get alert when it is their country that is being/going to be bombed.


referring to the Kanishka incident.

I already agreed that was a disgrace. It's also a scary thought that the RCMP and CSIS needed some terrorist attack to be successful before they stopped fighting each other for jurisdiction and started to cooperate. It's a horrible, horrible thing to think that if someone else (like India) had been on the ball more than us and somehow successfully averted the Kanishka incident, the two organizations would likely still be fighting. (and possibly been unsuccessful at stopping these later attempts)

Tarek Fatah, bless his soul, speaks up.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1149630611454&call_pageid=968256290204
Keep politics out of our mosques
Muslims cannot sit still while a fascist cult of Islamic supremacy takes over places of worship, says Tarek Fatah

Jun. 7, 2006. 01:00 AM

Three years ago when Kuwaiti Islamist scholar Tareq Al Suwaidian told a Toronto crowd that "Western civilization is rotten from within and nearing collapse ... it (the West) will continue to grow until an outside force hits it and you will be surprised at how quickly it falls," he was lustily cheered by the nearly 2,000 young Muslim men and women.

I was deeply offended by the hostile remark, but the thunderous approving applause of the young audience simply stunned me. All I could do was muster the courage and stage a polite walkout.

That day I resolved to fight this hostility toward the modern nation-state and Western civilization that was engulfing a section of Canadian Muslim youth; one that was being fanned by the leadership of the traditional Muslim organizations and Islamic radicals who took inspiration from the ruling elites of Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Last weekend's arrests and the alleged role of young Muslim men in a terror cell may not have been inspired by the fiery rhetoric of the visiting Kuwaiti scholar. But if the RCMP allegations are true, the actions of this group definitely have roots in the cult of hate and death that is glorified by a tiny segment of Muslim clerics.

While the overwhelming majority of Canada's Muslims have been stunned by this development, few can honestly deny that they had seen this coming.

For years, some of us have been incessantly talking and writing about the growth of this extremist phenomenon, this contempt for secular parliamentary democracy and non-stop berating of Muslim youth who become "Canadian" and warnings to them that they will be punished in the hereafter if they do not adhere to the barren version of Islam where joy itself is a sin.

In the last five years, we Muslims have had more than our share of terrorism done in the name of our faith. Whether it is terrorist attacks in India or the hundreds of simultaneous bombings in 300 cities of Bangladesh; whether it is massacres of Muslims by Muslims in Iraq or the genocide of Muslims by Muslims in Darfur, the traditional leadership of the Muslim community responds repeatedly in a similar manner: abject denial.

Every tragedy that has befallen the Muslim world has been labelled as an American or a Zionist conspiracy. The conspiracy stories have gone from the ridiculous to the absurd.

During my recent visit to Karachi to attend the World Social Forum, I was stunned to see banners strung across streets proclaiming boldly that the "Bird flu was a Jewish drama.;) "

First I thought this was some dark Pakistani humour that I had forgotten to appreciate because I had left my birthplace 28 years ago. Upon asking around, I was told this was a widespread view: Israel was to blame for the bird flu because it was against the poultry industry of Indonesia.

What troubled me even more is the fact that the banner proclaiming this latest conspiracy was not displayed in some poor suburb of the city or outside a madrassah, but was hung in the posh, upper-class neighbourhood of Clifton.

I found another such banner draping the entrance to a grocery store, where the owner lectured me about how the tsunami of December 2004 was a result of a joint effort by the U.S. and Israel to drown and destroy Muslim nations.

Back in Canada, the conspiracy stories continue to fester and the latest crisis that confronts all of us has again provided fertile soil for conspiracy theorists.

On a live TVO Studio 2 debate on Monday, Toronto imam Ali Hindy clearly insinuated that the entire RCMP operation was being conducted to justify the continuing war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He referred to the arrests as "show business" and stated the "show must go on."

During the discussion, Hindy claimed he knew eight of the accused. According to his analysis, the suspects may have been involved in military training to fight a jihad overseas. He went on to say that when young Muslim men come to him asking to go overseas to fight, he discourages them and tells them to fight their jihad "here."

Flabbergasted, host Paula Todd asked him, "Why? What do you mean?" Cornered, he took refuge — like so many Muslim clerics who encourage jihad, take when trapped — in philosophy: "By jihad I mean the inner jihad ...";)

Monday night's discussion on TVO was also significant because it is only in non-Muslim institutions that Muslims can debate from adversarial positions.

There is not a single mosque in Canada where Muslims with opposing views can debate anything political, social or theological. The doors of debate are shut by the cement of orthodoxy. Only doublespeak and hypocrisy are allowed to flourish. As long as Muslims can find someone else to blame for our ills, the problem is seen as resolved.

I say, enough is enough. Muslims cannot go on behaving as if everything is normal. We cannot sit still while a fascist cult of Islamic supremacy takes over our mosques.

We cannot afford it any more because we risk losing a generation to the temptation of simple answers to life's challenges; a solution that states that life on Earth is meaningless because it is temporary and therefore not worthy of sustaining, not worthy of enjoying.

I urge Muslims to recognize that a mosque is not the places for politics, it is a place of worship. Imams who peddle politics need to be told to take their politics to the electorate and not to the pulpit.

Religion and politics is an incendiary mixture and invoking God on one's side in a political dispute is dishonest, callous and dangerous. Let us tell our imams to keep their politics to themselves and not to stain our religion by using the divine texts to score political points and promote terror.

It is ironic that Muslim extremists are portraying themselves as anti-imperialist when, in fact, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are nothing more than a creation of the CIA. Muslims need to recognize that the agenda of these extremists is a cult of hate and fascism, not one of advocacy for their community.

Tarek Fatah is host of the weekly TV show, The Muslim Chronicle.



Equus, I did not see your reply b4 posting mine. Apologies.

lol.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19402683-23109,00.html
'Plan to use plane' in Canada attack

ONE of a group of Toronto-area men now in custody on terror-related charges had enrolled in a flight training program as part of a plan to use aircraft in an attack on Canadian targets, it was reported today.

CBC television, which cited allegations contained in court documents, said Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, had enrolled in a training program at a Toronto-area college but then withdrew out of fear his activities would draw the attention of authorities.

A lot of Khalistani terrorists had links in Canada. The Canadians never really looked at it as a threat (a la Britain's erstwhile tacit understanding with islamists...as long as you bomb others only, I don't care, just don't do anything here..)..

329 people were killed in that plane. It took more than a decade for the case to conclude and finally the Canadian court said not guilty and the terrorists are now roaming free. Exactly the kind of message you want to send to future planners.

Added later: Did you read reactions from the victims families?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/airindia/reaction_victimsfamilies.html

I read a lot more reaction in various Indian editorials. It's still shocking.

This forum caracterizes why I hate being Canadian. Apart from a few posts with sense to them, this is just a bunch of liberal low-lifes.

And you and all of Alberta are still an embarrassment to Canada so I guess it evens its self out nicely.

At least they had good taste in explosives AMEX is a very good one High shattering force though a real bitch to detonate.

(I worked at a logging camp and the stuff becomes like duct tape, it's useful for every thing.)

As for having three tons, I love hording, it is a problem but other wise harmless, I just like collecting things I like, I used to have 18pounds of Mercury in a deep freezer! (I gave it to the authority's to dispose of for me) but I still have a strong desire to collect it, that would be a viable defence, but having detonators, they're fried.

I've often wondered if we should not kill the prime minister myself.better take a number :D

Frankly, having been a misguided youth myself at one time, I'm familiar with how the 'slippery slope' works.

There is a pretty sizeable difference between that time you might have sneaked a quickie round the back of the bikesheds and a teenager seeking to launch a terrorist attack with the sole intention of murdering as many people as possible. The disparity between these two states of affairs cannot be explained via the argument that these youths merely carried on down the "slippery slope" but rather that they chose to hurl themselves headlong into the abyss.

What? No-one so much as sniggered at my quip about getting the dung wholesale? From the RCMP Musical ride?
http://www.musicalrideboutique.com/graphics/charge1.jpg
Hello?

What? No-one so much as sniggered at my quip about getting the dung wholesale? From the RCMP Musical ride?
http://www.musicalrideboutique.com/graphics/charge1.jpg
Hello?
I got it, but it is a slow night. :p

So maybe these Muslims will claim they were planning an urban renewal project...

I think, actually, they claimed that they wanted to behead Stephen Harper. Not quite urban renewal-related activity.

I really do hope that we don't go easy on these guys. I couldn't care less if they're Muslims. They could be bloody well any sort of ethnicity/religion/skin colour, and I'd hate em all the same. I love Canada. It is a remarkably tolerant country, and these men took advantage of that to try and hurt us. Well, I do hope that we send them to rot in some terrorist-reserved cells. Leave em there for future generations of terrorists...

I mean, what is the problem with Canada? Okay, we're polluting the air a fair bit, but I don't think that's what these guys had a beef with. (Besides, we're not polluting as much as other countries...not to shift blame or nothing. Pollution is a team effort.) Yes, we have men and women serving in the Middle East - whom I shall hopefully have the honour of serving with after Basic - but we aren't doing anything radical. We're trying to help Afghanistan modernize. That's it. Kinda get some pumps going, maybe help out with production of foods and goods...not take over the place and create another Canadian Territory. Besides, Afghanistan gets very little snow. If it's Canadian, it has to be snow-able. Anyway, we're a very welcoming, friendly nation, I like to believe. Our politicians are usually slow and unliked by many of the masses, but that's democracy for you. Look the world over, and that situation is seen a lot.

What I'm saying is...Canadians do not discriminate. We are not a racist people. Why these Canadian-bred terrorists suddenly discriminated against us, nay, against their own country, I'll never know. They have lived here for years, enjoying the political and personal freedoms we have created. And now, out of the blue, they hate us for it? For giving them a stable country, safe and serene, to foster their own beliefs, however misguided they are? I think that is too much of an insult to let go.

And that, everybody, is my two cents.

.

And that, everybody, is my two cents.

Islamic bombers hobby is blowing innocent people to doll rags and vapour. The randomer the better just so long as it is spectacular. They really dig the attention they get after the explosion. Sometimes three or four of the attention whore groups will call the nearest news agency to claim credit for a good blast. Their hobby is getting negative attention this way like children who have been raised badly.

Trust me, it isnt Canada's fault. These guys kill as many innocents as they can for attention, and this time it just happened to be Canadians they planned to kill for a publicity stunt. It is them not you.

Islamic bombers hobby is blowing innocent people to doll rags and vapour. The randomer the better just so long as it is spectacular. They really dig the attention they get after the explosion. Sometimes three or four of the attention whore groups will call the nearest news agency to claim credit for a good blast. Their hobby is getting negative attention this way like children who have been raised badly.

Trust me, it isnt Canada's fault. These guys kill as many innocents as they can for attention, and this time it just happened to be Canadians they planned to kill for a publicity stunt. It is them not you.


http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/07/documents07062006.html

Looks like they were really busy guys, and the police have a LOT of evidence on them. They are truly screwed.

'...intercepted telephone conversations, observations of group members brandishing semi-automatic weapons, even the contents of a note in one of the suspect's luggage during a flight from Pakistan to Canada...'

~ A wanton violation of their civil rights. Stern letter from ACLU to follow..

Yeah, ok. So, the guy had a "personal interest" in beheading Paul Martin, but changed his mind when he saw just how long the line was.

It'd kill the broadcast of the Stanley Cup finals.

They dont care who they piss off.

Even though the Oilers are losing, this would be an act so henious, the retribution required would leave the middle east a desolate wasteland!

Yeah, ok. So, the guy had a "personal interest" in beheading Paul Martin, but changed his mind when he saw just how long the line was.
I bet it would surprise them to find out that Martin only wears his head when he appears in public.

Even though the Oilers are losing, this would be an act so henious, the retribution required would leave the middle east a desolate wasteland!

The mastermind (Jahmal) and most of the suspects are not from ME.

Trust me, it isnt Canada's fault. These guys kill as many innocents as they can for attention, and this time it just happened to be Canadians they planned to kill for a publicity stunt. It is them not you.

I hear what you're saying. There've been terrorists, well...'spawned' in countries all over the world. But now, it's here on our doorstep. They were born as Canadians. I thought we were better than this, past these sorts of things...

I can't help but take it personally. And it hurts.

Well, the Lashkar-e-Toiba connection has come out now.....

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=c3404849-8afd-44f6-bced-e2b91e922906&k=97351
U.K. suspect linked to terror group in Pakistan
Organization gets funding from al-Qaeda: Ottawa

Stewart Bell; with files from Joseph Brean
National Post; with files from CanWest News Service

Friday, June 09, 2006

TORONTO - A man being questioned in the United Kingdom about his alleged role in a Canadian extremist group accused of plotting bombings in Toronto has ties to an outlawed Pakistani militant group, sources have told the National Post.

Abid Khan, 21, who was recently in Canada and is being detained north of London under Britain's Terrorism Act, is believed to be involved with Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT), a radical Islamist organization linked to al-Qaeda and the Taliban, the sources said.

Mr. Khan is suspected of being a "go-to guy" who would arrange for volunteers around the world to attend the LeT's training camps.

Some describe him as the "Abu Zubaydah" of the LeT, a reference to the man accused of feeding recruits to Osama bin Laden's training camp network in Afghanistan.

Investigators suspect Mr. Khan may have tried to help some of those associated with the Toronto network receive training in Pakistan, but he was not among those charged by Canadian authorities on the weekend and he has not been charged by Britain.

Mr. Khan was arrested at 9 p.m. on Tuesday after he flew into Manchester airport from Pakistan. A 16-year-old described by British media as the grandson of a leading Islamic scholar was arrested later.

Mr. Khan's friends and family have said they could not imagine him being involved in terrorist activities.

Yesterday, West Yorkshire Police said in a statement they were searching an Internet cafe. Police have also searched Mr. Khan's home in Bradford, his grandmother's home and several locations in Dewsbury.

"This is a continuing and detailed investigation, and while we are working hard to bring it to a conclusion as quickly as possible, there is a need to ensure inquiries are completed thoroughly," police said.

The LeT, or "Army of the Pure," was placed on Canada's official list of outlawed terrorist organizations in June, 2003. It operates in the Pakistani part of Kashmir, known as Kashmir and Jammu. Both Pakistanis and Indians claim Kashmir as their own and the two have fought to control it for a half-century.

Armed Muslim groups such as the LeT regularly attack Indian security forces in Kashmir using bombs and firearms. They have also massacred civilians as part of what they consider a jihad. Since the end of the Taliban rule in Afghanistan, Islamic militants have trekked to Kashmir to join the fight.

The LeT is the armed wing of the Markaz Da'wa wal-Irshad, a fundamentalist centre for religious learning and social welfare. It has targeted both civilians and Indian security forces, sometimes in suicide attacks.

"In addition to links to al-Qaeda, the LeT also has links with the Taliban and other Islamic extremist groups throughout the Middle East, Chechnya and the Philippines," says a profile of the group by Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada. "Al-Qaeda's close links to the LeT can be traced to their common training in Afghan camps and in the 1980s jihad against the Soviets. Osama bin Laden is reportedly one of the LeT's leading financiers."

Mr. Khan's alleged involvement with the LeT is the latest suggestion of a Pakistan connection to what the RCMP is describing as a plot by "al-Qaeda-inspired" homegrown Canadian terrorists to carry out attacks in southern Ontario.

Well, the Lashkar-e-Toiba connection has come out now.....

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=c3404849-8afd-44f6-bced-e2b91e922906&k=97351
I'm not surprised.

Of course, I'm going to hear from posters on this forum that "all these terrorists organizations are not really connected, and you can't prove a thing, so leave them alone".

Fools.

I'm not surprised.

Of course, I'm going to hear from posters on this forum that "all these terrorists organizations are not really connected, and you can't prove a thing, so leave them alone".

Fools.

So, you and several other people have been going on about how us leftists and liberals are defending these people from the horrible white christians.

Bullshit. No one's been defending them on this thread. Dakini and Equus have merely stated that they will reserve judgement until the verdict is issued. What is it about you, anyway? For a white christian male from the USA, you act awfully persecuted.

Well, the Lashkar-e-Toiba connection has come out now.....

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=c3404849-8afd-44f6-bced-e2b91e922906&k=97351
U.K. suspect linked to terror group in Pakistan
Organization gets funding from al-Qaeda: Ottawa

Stewart Bell; with files from Joseph Brean
National Post; with files from CanWest News Service

Friday, June 09, 2006

TORONTO - A man being questioned in the United Kingdom about his alleged role in a Canadian extremist group accused of plotting bombings in Toronto has ties to an outlawed Pakistani militant group, sources have told the National Post.

Abid Khan, 21, who was recently in Canada and is being detained north of London under Britain's Terrorism Act, is believed to be involved with Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT), a radical Islamist organization linked to al-Qaeda and the Taliban, the sources said.

Mr. Khan is suspected of being a "go-to guy" who would arrange for volunteers around the world to attend the LeT's training camps.

Some describe him as the "Abu Zubaydah" of the LeT, a reference to the man accused of feeding recruits to Osama bin Laden's training camp network in Afghanistan.

Investigators suspect Mr. Khan may have tried to help some of those associated with the Toronto network receive training in Pakistan, but he was not among those charged by Canadian authorities on the weekend and he has not been charged by Britain.

Mr. Khan was arrested at 9 p.m. on Tuesday after he flew into Manchester airport from Pakistan. A 16-year-old described by British media as the grandson of a leading Islamic scholar was arrested later.

Mr. Khan's friends and family have said they could not imagine him being involved in terrorist activities.

Yesterday, West Yorkshire Police said in a statement they were searching an Internet cafe. Police have also searched Mr. Khan's home in Bradford, his grandmother's home and several locations in Dewsbury.

"This is a continuing and detailed investigation, and while we are working hard to bring it to a conclusion as quickly as possible, there is a need to ensure inquiries are completed thoroughly," police said.

The LeT, or "Army of the Pure," was placed on Canada's official list of outlawed terrorist organizations in June, 2003. It operates in the Pakistani part of Kashmir, known as Kashmir and Jammu. Both Pakistanis and Indians claim Kashmir as their own and the two have fought to control it for a half-century.

Armed Muslim groups such as the LeT regularly attack Indian security forces in Kashmir using bombs and firearms. They have also massacred civilians as part of what they consider a jihad. Since the end of the Taliban rule in Afghanistan, Islamic militants have trekked to Kashmir to join the fight.

The LeT is the armed wing of the Markaz Da'wa wal-Irshad, a fundamentalist centre for religious learning and social welfare. It has targeted both civilians and Indian security forces, sometimes in suicide attacks.

"In addition to links to al-Qaeda, the LeT also has links with the Taliban and other Islamic extremist groups throughout the Middle East, Chechnya and the Philippines," says a profile of the group by Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada. "Al-Qaeda's close links to the LeT can be traced to their common training in Afghan camps and in the 1980s jihad against the Soviets. Osama bin Laden is reportedly one of the LeT's leading financiers."

Mr. Khan's alleged involvement with the LeT is the latest suggestion of a Pakistan connection to what the RCMP is describing as a plot by "al-Qaeda-inspired" homegrown Canadian terrorists to carry out attacks in southern Ontario.


http://www.zeigermann.com/cartoonist/images/2004/04/21/khan.jpg

KHAAAAAAN!