NationStates Jolt Archive

Well sir thrusty got in a fight on Friday … I have been working nights so I did not get a chance to type this up before…

Anyways here is what happened

At new student orientation at a collage I (as head of our networking department) help man a table dealing with the dorms. We are right between the Study Abroad program and the women’s center (to my right)

To the right of them is the GLBT table (Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender)

They have a rather small table with some booklets and reading material along with “ally” rainbow buttons (which they hope to get rid of 50 of them in the entire 2 week orientation session, rather pathetic when the dorm table got rid of over a thousand in the same time)

Besides this small table their only decoration is a small rainbow flag that fits on one standard 2x2 pillar (much smaller then lets say our giant loft)

Anyways about 2 pm when I was coming back to man our table before the last session for the day. When I get there the GLBT guy was in the process of trying to recover his flag

As I look a guy about 4 times his size had hold of the flag and was actively trying to rip it, when the GLBT guy tried to grab it back the aggressor punched him right in the face (flooring him) (the guy was throwing some rather nasty anti-gay obscenities around that I don’t care to repeat)

AT that point I did not think I walked up behind the larger man (much closer to my size then ryan the glbt guy) and kicked him to the back of the knee then pushed him face first to the floor pining him down

Did not have to wait long because public safety had a table there too and they came over and helped restrain him till the cops got there.


Anyways the point of this story is to 1) vent on the assholes that pull this shit 2) wonder if anyone gay or not has seen or participated in any anti-gay act of violence or vandalism

Haven't experienced anything like that yet. Hopefully never. But if it does happen, I'll prolly do the same as you.

You did the right thing. I have been yelled at for working gay tables as a straight ally, but nothing too serious. I think the most horrible thing I've heard is parents tell their gay college student that if they knew he would grow up to be gay, they would have killed him as a baby. I've also heard of a gay high school student being drenched in bleech by a mother to "try and get him clean." Luckily, I've never seen and violence first-hand.

UpwardThrust, find me a uterus and I'll have your babies.

You did the right thing. I have been yelled at for working gay tables as a straight ally, but nothing too serious. I think the most horrible thing I've heard is parents tell their gay college student that if they knew he would grow up to be gay, they would have killed him as a baby. I've also heard of a gay high school student being drenched in bleech by a mother to "try and get him clean." Luckily, I've never seen and violence first-hand.Yeah I was rather happy … no one (besides the GLBT person) got hurt.

The last time I was a victim of ant-gay violence it took me over a month and 3 lung staples to recover

UpwardThrust, find me a uterus and I'll have your babies.
Lol Ill go dig through the tool shed for one

Lol Ill go dig through the tool shed for one
*waits in anticipation*

Good job! It's always great to hear about people standing up for those in trouble/need. :D

2) wonder if anyone gay or not has seen or participated in any anti-gay act of violence or vandalism

A friend of mine was killed in a gay bashing several years back. And I've known several people who have been attacked. As for me personally, I've only had to deal with some name calling and attempted intimidation. There are still a lot of stupid people in the world.

Good job! It's always great to hear about people standing up for those in trouble/need. :D



A friend of mine was killed in a gay bashing several years back. And I've known several people who have been attacked. As for me personally, I've only had to deal with some name calling and attempted intimidation. There are still a lot of stupid people in the world.
Lol like I said this time went better then the last ... thoes 4 guys that jumped my friend sent me to the hospital too lol

This time I was glad to help

Sorry to hear that dude...

Power to you, and keep fighting the Bigots!

Lol like I said this time went better then the last ... thoes 4 guys that jumped my friend sent me to the hospital too lol

This time I was glad to help

To be honest, I'm kind of suprised (and a bit disturbed) that it's that common in St Cloud. My experience with Minnesota was that it was a fairly liberal and tolerant place. Especially in the cities and in college towns. All those Swedes, Norwegians, and such. Now, if you lived in the south or out on the great plains..... It's kind of expected here. Though things are slowly improving.

Well sir thrusty got in a fight on Friday … I have been working nights so I did not get a chance to type this up before…

Anyways here is what happened

At new student orientation at a collage I (as head of our networking department) help man a table dealing with the dorms. We are right between the Study Abroad program and the women’s center (to my right)

To the right of them is the GLBT table (Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender)

They have a rather small table with some booklets and reading material along with “ally” rainbow buttons (which they hope to get rid of 50 of them in the entire 2 week orientation session, rather pathetic when the dorm table got rid of over a thousand in the same time)

Besides this small table their only decoration is a small rainbow flag that fits on one standard 2x2 pillar (much smaller then lets say our giant loft)

Anyways about 2 pm when I was coming back to man our table before the last session for the day. When I get there the GLBT guy was in the process of trying to recover his flag

As I look a guy about 4 times his size had hold of the flag and was actively trying to rip it, when the GLBT guy tried to grab it back the aggressor punched him right in the face (flooring him) (the guy was throwing some rather nasty anti-gay obscenities around that I don’t care to repeat)

AT that point I did not think I walked up behind the larger man (much closer to my size then ryan the glbt guy) and kicked him to the back of the knee then pushed him face first to the floor pining him down

Did not have to wait long because public safety had a table there too and they came over and helped restrain him till the cops got there.


Anyways the point of this story is to 1) vent on the assholes that pull this shit 2) wonder if anyone gay or not has seen or participated in any anti-gay act of violence or vandalism

The pink pistols would be the people to ask about laws and whatnot...

Way to go UpwardThrust! Defense of others!

Er... haven't seen it, but at my school this year, we got to hear about crap that happened over our school broadcasting journalism station. It seems that some people started vandalizing the lockers and stuff of some people who spoke at a panel for the Living Skills class for the orientation unit. Not directly against the people themselves, I know, but same idea. Hate crime and all that.

Good job, and you got free hits on that jackass too... I'm jealous.

2) wonder if anyone gay or not has seen or participated in any anti-gay act of violence or vandalism

I was "gay-bashed" a couple of years ago outside a club by three "right wing extremists" as the policeman I talked to referred to them. Messed me up pretty good (nothing broken, fortunately), but then I did fight back which seemed to anger the bastards.

I was "gay-bashed" a couple of years ago outside a club by three "right wing extremists" as the policeman I talked to referred to them. Messed me up pretty good (nothing broken, fortunately), but then I did fight back which seemed to anger the bastards.
Simmilar to me a few years ago ... stood up for a friend and took a knife in the back

Upward! Good job lad. I will drink one to honor you.

Fass: Sorry to hear that. We have that crap happening over hear all the time.

Some of the "Christian" community seems to think they can beat the gay out of people.....

To be honest, I'm kind of suprised (and a bit disturbed) that it's that common in St Cloud. My experience with Minnesota was that it was a fairly liberal and tolerant place. Especially in the cities and in college towns. All those Swedes, Norwegians, and such. Now, if you lived in the south or out on the great plains..... It's kind of expected here. Though things are slowly improving.
It is not all that common actualy ... both times were out of state collage students

(the guy in this case I think was from texas ... the first case not sure)

Simmilar to me a few years ago ... stood up for a friend and took a knife in the back

Superficial wound, I hope.

Superficial wound, I hope.
Took 3 lung staples to fix the poped lung but I lived

Took 3 lung staples to fix the poped lung but I lived

Damn.

Fass: Sorry to hear that. We have that crap happening over hear all the time.

When it happens, it does spook you a bit. I was nervous going out for a long time afterwards, and this guy I knew gave me mace to have "for when it happens next time." Mace is illegal here, which made me even more nervous going out, so I didn't bring it along that many times, and after a while I got over it. Part of life, I suppose.

Damn.
Lol but I took 3 of the 4 to the hospital with me ;) (broken leg and some lacerations to them ... got one of their knives)

When it happens, it does spook you a bit. I was nervous going out for a long time afterwards, and this guy I knew gave me mace to have "for when it happens next time." Mace is illegal here, which made me even more nervous going out, so I didn't bring it along that many times, and after a while I got over it. Part of life, I suppose.
Yeah I still go downtimes too ... freak accident really

UT, you have my respect! *Salute*

Took 3 lung staples to fix the poped lung but I lived

Dang. No significant sequelae, I hope, then.

Dang. No significant sequelae, I hope, then.
Naw they did the staples on the 4th of july 2 years ago and heald sense

(actualy taking out the lung tubes hurt more then fucking being stabbed)

Personally I cant stand gays, but I hate that they face violence.

I am a very vocal ally at my high school and though I though i have never witnessed any gay bashing some of my friends in the past were gay bashed, one had to transfer when at her old school she was recieving death threats after being outed.

I live in canada and my school is fortunately fairly tollerant, I help lead our Gay Straight Alliance, and about the worst we suffer is our posters getting ripped down, some verbal comments and my locker got defaced once.

Hopefully tollerance will spread further south and Gay Bashings will become a thing of the past.

When it happens, it does spook you a bit. I was nervous going out for a long time afterwards, and this guy I knew gave me mace to have "for when it happens next time." Mace is illegal here, which made me even more nervous going out, so I didn't bring it along that many times, and after a while I got over it. Part of life, I suppose.

Friends used to go to the gay pride parades in San Francisco. One of them was nearly beaten to death so they decided to hold their own drag parties instead. People freak when they hear I went to them and even dressed up a couple times. The parties were fun!

Mace is a good and bad thing. It can build a false sense of confidence. I remember the police holding a seminar because they noticed there was a high percentage of women getting attacked that were trained to use mace (you have to take a certification class to carry it). They went back and found women were walking into situations their instincts told them not to do it.

They tried to teach women that mace is indeed a tool but it does not make you invulnerable. To prove their point, they took a bunch of them to a car lot. Told them to have the mace ready and that there was a policeman that was going to try and jump them. The cop only got sprayed once out of twenty women.

Personally I cant stand gays, but I hate that they face violence.
Both cases were not people being openly gay … the OP was about someone doing their job and the one at the bars the guy had gone downtown to the comedy club and had a few beers with the guys

No hitting on people no clubbing no being overly “Gay” (and that absolutely is no excuse even if he was)

UT! You're a superhero! :fluffle:

Personally I cant stand gays

We don't like your bigoted ass either.

UT! You're a superhero! :fluffle:
Strikes a pose

The pink pistols would be the people to ask about laws and whatnot...
There are already laws. First one comes to mind: Assault. Add the hate language: Aggravated assault. Felony.

And what the F are "pink pistols"?

UpwardThrust, find me a uterus and I'll have your babies.

He's a kung fu masta!

There are already laws. First one comes to mind: Assault. Add the hate language: Aggravated assault. Felony.

And what the F are "pink pistols"?

Pink Pistols (http://www.pinkpistols.org/)

Pink Pistols (http://www.pinkpistols.org/)

I wish I could say that gay people being able to be stupid was new to me.

We don't like your bigoted ass either.

Oh that is perfect, someones says they don't like gays and now you label them a biggoted ass. Wow, where's all that tolerance you should have??????

Oh that is perfect, someones says they don't like gays and now you label them a biggoted ass. Wow, where's all that tolerance you should have??????

Why should he have it and the other person shouldn't? That makes no sense.

And yes, I believe everyone should be tolerant of everyone, I'm just pointing out the error in your argument.

Why should he have it and the other person shouldn't? That makes no sense.

And yes, I believe everyone should be tolerant of everyone, I'm just pointing out the error in your argument.

He was tolerant, his opinon was he didn't like gays, but in the same statement said he didn't view violence against gays as acceptable. That is tolerant of gays, if he wasn't tolerant of gays he would be happy for the violence. Get it?

Oh that is perfect, someones says they don't like gays and now you label them a biggoted ass. Wow, where's all that tolerance you should have??????

Do you think people who say "I can't stand Blacks" deserve to be called bigots? What about those who say "I can't stand Jews," or "I can't stand Christians," or "I can't stand Whites"?

He was tolerant, his opinon was he didn't like gays, but in the same statement said he didn't view violence against gays as acceptable. That is tolerant of gays, if he wasn't tolerant of gays he would be happy for the violence. Get it?

No, that's not tolerance. That's suffering. If he were tolerant, he wouldn't say that he can't stand gays. He wouldn't say that he liked gays either, but he wouldn't say that he can't stand them. Both ways don't condone violence, but one still dislikes while the other doesn't care.

Do you think people who say "I can't stand Blacks" deserve to be called bigots? What about those who say "I can't stand Jews," or "I can't stand Christians," or "I can't stand Whites"?

I think calling anyone a bigot is no better than calling someone who is gay a flaming faggot. Both are derogatory. Whether someone says they like or don't like someone else is their opinon, to call them a bigot is to slur them. If you are ok with bigot then you should be ok with faggot or anything else that has a negative connotation to it.

I think calling anyone a bigot is no better than calling someone who is gay a flaming faggot. Both are derogatory. Whether someone says they like or don't like someone else is their opinon, to call them a bigot is to slur them. If you are ok with bigot then you should be ok with faggot or anything else that has a negative connotation to it.

Unlike you, I distinguish between words with negative connotations. A bigot who is labeled a bigot deserves the negative connotation of that term; a gay person called "faggot" does not.

Oh that is perfect, someones says they don't like gays and now you label them a biggoted ass.

Yes, because saying "I can't stand gays" does make one a bigot.

Wow, where's all that tolerance you should have??????

You seem to be under the impression that I am some sort of USian and that I am bound by their warped notion of "tolerance." I assure you, I am under no obligation to be tolerant of intolerance.

Unlike you, I distinguish between words with negative connotations. A bigot who is labeled a bigot deserves the negative connotation of that term; a gay person called "faggot" does not.

Selective tolerance, is acceptable to you then?

Yes, because saying "I can't stand gays" does make one a bigot.

I can't stand child molestors, but that doesn't make me a bigot.



You seem to be under the impression that I am some sort of USian and that I am bound by their warped notion of "tolerance." I assure you, I am under no obligation to be tolerant of intolerance.

You pulled that straight from your arse, I could care where you are from.

I think calling anyone a bigot is no better than calling someone who is gay a flaming faggot. Both are derogatory. Whether someone says they like or don't like someone else is their opinon, to call them a bigot is to slur them. If you are ok with bigot then you should be ok with faggot or anything else that has a negative connotation to it.

That made no logical sense whatsoever. Perhaps there are people who use bigot to mean 'non-liberal in the relevant context' the way others use 'faggot' to mean 'homosexual', but rest assured that that has nothing to do with what 'bigot' actually means. Inability to tolerate those not like you or those with beliefs that conflict with your own is bigotry. Stating that a person falls into the category is not intolerant; it is a statement of position.

Furthermore, there is no such thing as 'tolerance of intolerance'; it's an oxymoron. The action has a net logical result of furthering intolerance, and is thus counterconceptual. Intolerance is not an independent viewpoint, trait, or belief; it is a dependent negative reaction to a real, independent trait or belief, and thus not a necessitated candidate for tolerance. If I said, in response to the poster who hates gays, that I hated 'white conservative Christians', that would be a self-contradicting violation of my creed of tolerance. Calling him a bigot and criticizing his intolerance, not the independent trait which potentially is its root, is not a self contradiction.

I can't stand child molestors, but that doesn't make me a bigot.

What does make you a bigot, though, is the comparison you just tried to make between gay people and child molesters.

You pulled that straight from your arse, I could care where you are from.

Then you need to quickly rid yourself of the notion that I need be tolerant of intolerance. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Selective tolerance, is acceptable to you then?

Yes, it is. Being tolerant of bigotry is unacceptable to me.

I can't stand child molestors, but that doesn't make me a bigot.
Unlike gay people, child molesters actually hurt people by their actions.

I can't stand child molestors, but that doesn't make me a bigot.

Difference is child molestors hurt society, Gays do not.

A bigot is someone who is intollerant towards someone without rational reason to do so. It's okay to be intollerant towards child molestors because there is a valid reason (they take advantage of a child's incapability to consent thereby infringing on their rights). However intollerance towards blacks/athiests/gays is bigoted because there is no rational reason to do so.

What does make you a bigot, though, is the comparison you just tried to make between gay people and child molesters.

Hardly, but you just did. There is no comparison except in your mind. My point is I can say I can't stand someone and it doesn't equate to bigotry.

I can't stand wife abusers.
I can't stand theives.
I can't stand paranoid people.
I can't stand pedophiliacs.
I can't stand necrophiliacs.

Not an ounce of bigotry there, just traits I can't stand in people. Just because someone can't stand the actions of others does not make them a bigot.



Then you need to quickly rid yourself of the notion that I need be tolerant of intolerance. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I could care what you tolerate or not, but your assumption that someone is a bigot because they "can't stand" something is silly.

I could care what you tolerate or not, but your assumption that someone is a bigot because they "can't stand" something is silly.

Since you dodged the question last time, let me ask it again:

Do you think people who say "I can't stand Blacks" deserve to be called bigots? What about those who say "I can't stand Jews," or "I can't stand Christians," or "I can't stand Whites"?

Hardly, but you just did. There is no comparison except in your mind. My point is I can say I can't stand someone and it doesn't equate to bigotry.

I can't stand wife abusers.
I can't stand theives.
I can't stand paranoid people.
I can't stand pedophiliacs.
I can't stand necrophiliacs.

Not an ounce of bigotry there, just traits I can't stand in people. Just because someone can't stand the actions of others does not make them a bigot.

Obviously. Those things do not imply an inability to tolerate those who are different; those nonacceptances/dislikes are rational. When you extend the list to include, for example, gays, it becomes irrational, implying an inability to tolerate difference, and thus some degree of bigoted nature.

Hardly, but you just did. There is no comparison except in your mind. My point is I can say I can't stand someone and it doesn't equate to bigotry.

I can't stand wife abusers.
I can't stand theives.
I can't stand paranoid people.
I can't stand pedophiliacs.
I can't stand necrophiliacs.

Not an ounce of bigotry there, just traits I can't stand in people. Just because someone can't stand the actions of others does not make them a bigot.

Again, what makes you a bigot is going from comparing child molesters with gay people, to now comparing "wife abusers, thieves, paranoid people, paedophiles, and necrophiliacs" with gay people, and thinking you somehow bettered yourself. Bigot.

I could care what you tolerate or not, but your assumption that someone is a bigot because they "can't stand" something is silly.

Seeing as you're one, too, I can see where your bellyaching comes from, and, no, I don't give a patootie about it.

Fass, you are a hypocrite. You may as well call yourself a bigot too. You don't like him because he doesn't like gays. Seems pretty intolerant to me.


People can dislike gays, and still tolerate them. Hell, I don't like gay people either, to me, it's unnatural and disgusting(both gays and lesbians). However, I did go to school with several "flamers and bulldykes" and I work with some others. I still treat them like normal people, just because I don't like what they are, does not mean that I will bash them for it. The only time it would ever become an issue is if they started coming on to me.

Since you dodged the question last time, let me ask it again:

Do you think people who say "I can't stand Blacks" deserve to be called bigots? What about those who say "I can't stand Jews," or "I can't stand Christians," or "I can't stand Whites"?

I didn't think I dodged it, but I will be clearer. No, I don't think they are bigots, I think it is their opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is only their opinion and doesn't make them a bigot.

Someone saying they can't stand a "insert choice adjective or noun here* if it applies to me does not offend me. Why should it?

Fass, you are a hypocrite. You may as well call yourself a bigot too. You don't like him because he doesn't like gays.

What, so as a gay person I am supposed to like people who tell me they "can't stand" me? Go get yourself a clue, kid.

Seems pretty intolerant to me.

I am under no obligation to tolerate intolerance. In fact, I'm quite intolerant when it comes to bigots, racists, chauvinists, fascists and so on.

Hi. I'm a right-wing Christian, and I don't agree with homosexuality. Its contrary with what the Bible says. That's my personal belief, and yes, I'm allowed to hold that view. I can even talk to people about it.
However, the actions of people against gays as described by Upthrust and others is extremely offensive. Nothing is ever gained by attacking someone like that. It's also terrible because it give Christians a really bad name. It's so terrible that people misuse the name of Christianity, and force it on others in that way. The only way someone will change what they do, is if they believe in their heart that it is wrong. And according to the Bible (which is the same book read by violent bigots) the only way this happens, is by the Holy Spirit. Never by violence.
To the bigots::sniper:
Cheers guys. Please don't judge Christains because of the actions of a few, in the same way that none of you would judge all muslims from the actions of a few terrorists.

I didn't think I dodged it, but I will be clearer. No, I don't think they are bigots, I think it is their opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is only their opinion and doesn't make them a bigot.

So what would make them a bigot?

What, so as a gay person I am supposed to like people who tell me they "can't stand" me? Go get yourself a clue, kid.


I am under no obligation to tolerate intolerance. In fact, I'm quite intolerant when it comes to bigots, racists, chauvinists, fascists and so on.

You shouldn't repeat yourself and insult people; you're only damaging your own position. No offense meant. I mean, I agree with you; it's just a rather counterproductive argumentative method.

So what would make them a bigot?

That's my question as well. Darwinianmonkeys seems to be trying to invalidate the entire concept of bigotry....

Again, what makes you a bigot is going from comparing child molesters with gay people, to now comparing "wife abusers, thieves, paranoid people, paedophiles, and necrophiliacs" with gay people, and thinking you somehow bettered yourself. Bigot.

If it makes you feel good to call me a bigot you go for it. Doesn't bother me in the least because I know I am not.



Seeing as you're one, too, I can see where your bellyaching comes from, and, no, I don't give a patootie about it.

Hilarious!

If it makes you feel good to call me a bigot you go for it. Doesn't bother me in the least because I know I am not.

Of course it doesn't bother you. That's why you're bitching like a little schoolgirl about it.

Hilarious!

Your transparency is, indeed.

What, so as a gay person I am supposed to like people who tell me they "can't stand" me? Go get yourself a clue, kid.

Never said you had to like the guy, but you seem to be pretty vindictive towards him. And why are you calling me a kid, you don't even know me.


I am under no obligation to tolerate intolerance. In fact, I'm quite intolerant when it comes to bigots, racists, chauvinists, fascists and so on.

Your still a bigot. Guess you must hate yourself, being that bigots are people who are staunch in their beliefs and do not tolerate others.

To be honest, I'm kind of suprised (and a bit disturbed) that it's that common in St Cloud. My experience with Minnesota was that it was a fairly liberal and tolerant place. Especially in the cities and in college towns. All those Swedes, Norwegians, and such. Now, if you lived in the south or out on the great plains..... It's kind of expected here. Though things are slowly improving.
Don't let Garrison Keillor fool you. Outside of Minneapolis, you're not going to find a hell of a lot of sympathy. Some of the things I overhear from students at the Catholic university I teach in are just ridiculous when the college is Benedictine and seeks to extend Christ's hospitality to the world. Talking as though the crap they're spewing actually makes sense in any kind of defensible way. *shudder*

So what would make them a bigot?

The violent asshat in the original post the was beating up a guy is a bigot. His behavior is what makes him one. He could have walked right by the booth and ignored it and still had the opinion that he didn't like gays or even couldn't stand them but that would have been just his opinion. But it wouldn't have hurt anyone. He hurt someone because they are gay, that is a bigot in my opinion.

When it happens, it does spook you a bit. I was nervous going out for a long time afterwards, and this guy I knew gave me mace to have "for when it happens next time." Mace is illegal here, which made me even more nervous going out, so I didn't bring it along that many times, and after a while I got over it. Part of life, I suppose.
Yeah, that must have been a curious choice: break the law or defend yourself. This kind of outright bigotry pisses me off no end.

Fass es mighty agressive for bein' one of 'em "gay"... Why can't he just leave us good ol' conservative christians a break with his communistic terrorist propaganda... soon he'll prolly say it's wrong to force them terrorist kids to spill their guts at gitmo too! As long as I don't punch him in the face for liking men in the sack, I'm tolerant, you hear me? TOLERANT!




yes yes, I know sarcasm doesn't transfer well over the net... please don't take me seriously :cool:

Your still a bigot. Guess you must hate yourself, being that bigots are people who are staunch in their beliefs

[migraine beginning to appear] Please tell me you realize that ideological integrity in no way shape or form implies bigotry....

Why does no one seem to understand what exactly bigotry even is?

I am under no obligation to tolerate intolerance. In fact, I'm quite intolerant when it comes to bigots, racists, chauvinists, fascists and so on.

Maybe you should try putting that in your signature. People might get it then, instead of you having to repeat it countless times.

Hi. I'm a right-wing Christian,

Hi. I'm a left-wing heretic.

and I don't agree with homosexuality. Its contrary with what the Bible says. That's my personal belief,

Because you are under the obligation to make your personal beliefs agree with everything the Bible says?

and yes, I'm allowed to hold that view.

True.

I can even talk to people about it.

Also true.

However, the actions of people against gays as described by Upthrust and others is extremely offensive. Nothing is ever gained by attacking someone like that. It's also terrible because it give Christians a really bad name. It's so terrible that people misuse the name of Christianity, and force it on others in that way. The only way someone will change what they do, is if they believe in their heart that it is wrong. And according to the Bible (which is the same book read by violent bigots) the only way this happens, is by the Holy Spirit. Never by violence.

So let me get this straight. The actions UpwardThrust describes are terrible because:

1. They are ineffective.
2. They hurt the name of Christianity.

Is the suffering of the victims somewhere on that list?

The violent asshat in the original post the was beating up a guy is a bigot. His behavior is what makes him one. He could have walked right by the booth and ignored it and still had the opinion that he didn't like gays or even couldn't stand them but that would have been just his opinion. But it wouldn't have hurt anyone. He hurt someone because they are gay, that is a bigot in my opinion.

So someone who is more passive but nevertheless shares the beliefs of said "violent asshat" is not a bigot?

[migraine beginning to appear] Please tell me you realize that ideological integrity in no way shape or form implies bigotry....

Why does no one seem to understand what exactly bigotry even is?


Wait, what ideology are you even referring to? That gay people can't stand "bigots" who can't stand gays?

And yes, I do understand what bigotry is. I even stated what it is. A staunch belief in ones ideas(or religion, or politics, etcetera), who does not tolerate others beliefs.

Never said you had to like the guy, but you seem to be pretty vindictive towards him.

Vindictive? He told me couldn't stand me, I told him I didn't like his bigoted ass either. If that's vindictive, I'd hate to see what vengeful looks like.

And why are you calling me a kid, you don't even know me.

Oh, the spelling errors, naivety and emo handle are a hint.

Your still a bigot.

If one can be bigoted against bigotry, sure. I'm not going to tolerate racism, homophobia, chauvinism, fascism, oppression and so forth. You seem to think I'm supposed to think there's something wrong with not standing by and "tolerating" when someone else is intolerant. Intolerance is the only thing we need not tolerate.

Kill the straights! Kill the straights! All that we need are homosexuals!

Sorry, sometimes, I just get carried away. ;)

Seeing as you're one, too, I can see where your bellyaching comes from, and, no, I don't give a patootie about it.
heheehehehhehehehehehhe...patootie...yea... :D

Fass: Bigot!
DarwinianMonkeys: Bigot yourself! Yah!
Fass: No, you're a bigot!
DarwinianMonkeys: No, you're a bigot!
:headbang:
Grow up and actually discuss the issue properly. DarwinianMonkeys is allowed to hold the opinion that he dislikes gay people, though maybe he could couch it in less direct terms so as not offend all the gay people.
Fass can't stand the idea that someone dislikes what he does, so he gets angry. If I wanted to be nude in public, and someone was angry at me for that, they would not be wrong; they're allowed to be angry. Free speech. I'm not allowed to say they're a bigot, and not be a bigot myself, because I would be intolerant of their view. In a way Fass, you are fulfilling the literal term of bigot, which is "intolerance of other's views, beliefs, and orientations".
Seeing as Fass has to stop being gay all of a sudden for DarwinianMonkeys to like him, or vice versa, you may as well stop the discussion now.

Wait, what ideology are you even referring to? That gay people can't stand "bigots" who can't stand gays?

And yes, I do understand what bigotry is. I even stated what it is. A staunch belief in ones ideas(or religion, or politics, etcetera), who does not tolerate others beliefs.

Martin Luther King Jr. had very "staunch" beliefs in, among other things, black equality and nonviolence, and did not accept intolerance and bigotry towards blacks. Was he a bigot? Your definition does not fly.

*Shrug*

I can't blame Fass one bit for being defencive, I would have taken some offence had I been written off like that.

I think calling anyone a bigot is no better than calling someone who is gay a flaming faggot. Both are derogatory. Whether someone says they like or don't like someone else is their opinon, to call them a bigot is to slur them. If you are ok with bigot then you should be ok with faggot or anything else that has a negative connotation to it.
He didn't say that he "didn't like someone else". He said he didn't like GAYS, get it? GAYS! An entire fucking CLASS of people! I've seen film of other folks who didn't like entire classes of people, but they were hard to understand because their monologues were in German (or Serbian, Hutu, take your pick).

Singling out an ENTIRE CLASS of people for "dislike" is the DEFINITION of BIGOTRY. And sorry, NO, "bigot" doesn't carry a TENTH of the weight that "faggot" does. Do you fear for your life if you hear "bigot" on the street?

Pink Pistols (http://www.pinkpistols.org/)
Wow. Guess some people are tired of getting kicked around, but I don't think they would be the ones to consult about the law, then.

*Shrug*

I can't blame Fass one bit for being defencive, I would have taken some offence had I been written off like that.
Yeah cant remember the last time I was stabbed for thinking gays were icky ... but helping them

I can remember that time

2 years ago

Wow. Guess some people are tired of getting kicked around, but I don't think they would be the ones to consult about the law, then.
Yeah I can understand them but I would look for a little less bias interpretation just to be safe

Hardly, but you just did. There is no comparison except in your mind. My point is I can say I can't stand someone and it doesn't equate to bigotry.

I can't stand wife abusers.
I can't stand theives.
I can't stand paranoid people.
I can't stand pedophiliacs.
I can't stand necrophiliacs.

Not an ounce of bigotry there, just traits I can't stand in people. Just because someone can't stand the actions of others does not make them a bigot.





I could care what you tolerate or not, but your assumption that someone is a bigot because they "can't stand" something is silly.
Oh, sweet murdering Jesus, what the hell are you on?

All the things in your list are CRIMES! Well, except paranoia, that's a hobby. BEING GAY is NOT a CRIME. If you cannot see why you're off base by a mile, you are in serious need of semantics lessons.

Vindictive? He told me couldn't stand me, I told him I like his bigoted ass either. If that's vindictive, I'd hate to see what vengeful looks like.

So your saying that your words don't speak as loud as what your actions would...


Oh, the spelling errors and naivety are a hint.

What spelling errors? And what are you talking about, naivety? I'm not sure where you see a lack of experience in regards to gays and lesbians. It's really kind of odd, being that I could describe several circumstances in which I have dealt with gays or lesbians, even with my dislike. And considering my country allows homosexual marriage, I do have to be rather tolerant of the whole situation. The only thing that I have not had to deal with is violence towards gays or lesbians, and there is two reasons to that. One is obviously because I do not willingly put myself around them, and two is because I happen to live in a city where there is not a large population of them, it just happens that at my school they were tolerated better then at any other school, so most of them went there. So I ask again, what naivety? And furthermore. "Emo" handle? It's a handle, not my life. Maybe, just maybe, I don't want to use something that would actually represent who I am in real life. Maybe I should have "CanadianFarmer" as a handle, would that suit you?


If one can be bigoted against bigotry, sure. I'm not going to tolerate racism, homophobia, chauvinism, fascism, oppression and so forth. You seem to think I'm supposed to think there's something wrong with not standing by and "tolerating" when someone else is intolerant. Intolerance is the only thing we need not tolerate.

So I don't have to tolerate you then, that's what that all boils down to, seeing as you do not tolerate people who dislike gays or lesbians.

Free speech. I'm not allowed to say they're a bigot, and not be a bigot myself, because I would be intolerant of their view.

You really have no understanding of what tolerance means. It doesn't mean "turning the other cheek," or "looking the other way when someone breaks tolerance." Tolerance is them not talking that shit in the first place. You know, like when a KKKer goes and says "I can't stand niggers." They broke tolerance, and, thus I can tell them they're big old bet-wetting doodie-heads for what they just said. Or when a Nazi says Jews should be gassed. Tolerance is not sitting by silently, letting their crap be uncontradicted.

He didn't say that he "didn't like someone else". He said he didn't like GAYS, get it? GAYS! An entire fucking CLASS of people! I've seen film of other folks who didn't like entire classes of people, but they were hard to understand because their monologues were in German (or Serbian, Hutu, take your pick).

Singling out an ENTIRE CLASS of people for "dislike" is the DEFINITION of BIGOTRY. And sorry, NO, "bigot" doesn't carry a TENTH of the weight that "faggot" does. Do you fear for your life if you hear "bigot" on the street?
I am scared every time I hear faggot cause of that night

Last thing I heard before the stab

So someone who is more passive but nevertheless shares the beliefs of said "violent asshat" is not a bigot?

Are they a bigot for having an opinion? Is that what you asking? No I don't count anyone who has an opinion a bigot. And don't assume just because the violent asshat believes gays should be beaten that equates to the same thing as someone not liking homosexuality. One is a zealot or fanatic, one is simply an opinion there is a difference. Bigot is a synonym for zealot and fanatic alike.

Are they a bigot for having an opinion? Is that what you asking? No I don't count anyone who has an opinion a bigot.

Since bigotry is an opinion, that's a pretty nonsensical point of view.

Well sir thrusty got in a fight on Friday … I have been working nights so I did not get a chance to type this up before…

Anyways here is what happened

At new student orientation at a collage I (as head of our networking department) help man a table dealing with the dorms. We are right between the Study Abroad program and the women’s center (to my right)

To the right of them is the GLBT table (Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender)

They have a rather small table with some booklets and reading material along with “ally” rainbow buttons (which they hope to get rid of 50 of them in the entire 2 week orientation session, rather pathetic when the dorm table got rid of over a thousand in the same time)

Besides this small table their only decoration is a small rainbow flag that fits on one standard 2x2 pillar (much smaller then lets say our giant loft)

Anyways about 2 pm when I was coming back to man our table before the last session for the day. When I get there the GLBT guy was in the process of trying to recover his flag

As I look a guy about 4 times his size had hold of the flag and was actively trying to rip it, when the GLBT guy tried to grab it back the aggressor punched him right in the face (flooring him) (the guy was throwing some rather nasty anti-gay obscenities around that I don’t care to repeat)

AT that point I did not think I walked up behind the larger man (much closer to my size then ryan the glbt guy) and kicked him to the back of the knee then pushed him face first to the floor pining him down

Did not have to wait long because public safety had a table there too and they came over and helped restrain him till the cops got there.



That oughta make the news. You might get a medal or something. Im not so sure it's a great idea to spread it all over the net before you testify against the guy in court though. You may be helping the defense of him if you arent careful. Or even encouraging him to sue you. Just a thought.

The violent asshat in the original post the was beating up a guy is a bigot. His behavior is what makes him one. He could have walked right by the booth and ignored it and still had the opinion that he didn't like gays or even couldn't stand them but that would have been just his opinion. But it wouldn't have hurt anyone. He hurt someone because they are gay, that is a bigot in my opinion.
No, actually, as a matter of fact, the person who harbors the opinion that he can't stand gays is a bigot. Having the opinion is what makes him a bigot.

The person who expresses his bigotry by committing violence is called a felon, once the cops get hold of him.

Martin Luther King Jr. had very "staunch" beliefs in, among other things, black equality and nonviolence, and did not accept intolerance and bigotry towards blacks. Was he a bigot? Your definition does not fly.


That's a different situation. He wasn't going around saying "We dislike your bigoted ass too".

That oughta make the news. You might get a medal or something. Im not so sure it's a great idea to spread it all over the net before you testify against the guy in court though. You may be helping the defense of him if you arent careful. Or even encouraging him to sue you. Just a thought.
Well I am drunk now maby that will work in my defense ... though I dont think so there were almost 200 people there ... I doubt my personal say in things will make much of a difference

That's a different situation. He wasn't going around saying "We dislike your bigoted ass too".
Lol you point out the difference in analogies in one case but don’t find fault in the analogy between hating gays and hating child molesters

Wow talk about pick and choose

Fass: Bigot!
DarwinianMonkeys: Bigot yourself! Yah!
Fass: No, you're a bigot!
DarwinianMonkeys: No, you're a bigot!
:headbang:
Grow up and actually discuss the issue properly. DarwinianMonkeys is allowed to hold the opinion that he dislikes gay people, though maybe he could couch it in less direct terms so as not offend all the gay people.
Fass can't stand the idea that someone dislikes what he does, so he gets angry. If I wanted to be nude in public, and someone was angry at me for that, they would not be wrong; they're allowed to be angry. Free speech. I'm not allowed to say they're a bigot, and not be a bigot myself, because I would be intolerant of their view. In a way Fass, you are fulfilling the literal term of bigot, which is "intolerance of other's views, beliefs, and orientations".
Seeing as Fass has to stop being gay all of a sudden for DarwinianMonkeys to like him, or vice versa, you may as well stop the discussion now.

While I appreciate the effort CK, never have I said I disliked gays, not in the least. My point was the hatred from people toward someone (the poster who did say they can't stand gays) is intolerant in itself.

While I appreciate the effort CK, never have I said I disliked gays, not in the least. My point was the hatred from people toward someone (the poster who did say they can't stand gays) is intolerant in itself.
Yeah though personally being tolerant of intolerance is more hypocritical then not being tolerant of intolerance. If you have to draw a line at what to stand up for that seems as good a place as any

So your saying that your words don't speak as loud as what your actions would...

What?

What spelling errors?

Oh, the failure to use apostrophes and so on.

And what are you talking about, naivety?

Oh, the silly notion that "tolerance" means one gets a free pass from being contradicted.

"Emo" handle? It's a handle, not my life. Maybe, just maybe, I don't want to use something that would actually represent who I am in real life. Maybe I should have "CanadianFarmer" as a handle, would that suit you?

You can name yourself whatever you want. You just picked something emo. How dare you dare be intolerant of my opinion? See, there's that thing again. Tolerance doesn't mean one goes uncontradicted when one expresses something - it means that you, and everyone else, is allowed to express it. Doesn't give you a free pass from other people telling you just what they think of what you said.

So I don't have to tolerate you then, that's what that all boils down to, seeing as you do not tolerate people who dislike gays or lesbians.

No, I will not "tolerate" homophobia in the sense you seem to think it means - to be silent and let theirs be the only opinion heard.

Yeah cant remember the last time I was stabbed for thinking gays were icky ... but helping them

I can remember that time

2 years ago

I am not going to get too bent out of shape over a opinion. If it were translated into action, then all bets are off.

Don't get me wrong, what the guy said was practically asking for flak. Fass's responce to that was completely understandable. If anything elce, it's the guy's loss for writing of a group of people based on thier sexuality.

I am scared every time I hear faggot cause of that night

Last thing I heard before the stab
I just can never wrap my usually-flexible mind around what makes someone think that injuring or killing someone just because of who they are is an okay thing to do. Have I felt rage? Yes. Rage enough to want to find a weapon? Yes. Because someone was...I dunno, Conservative? Fascist? A Steelers fan? No. Never.

"Faggot" to me was just what those above me in the high school social food chain called me. I didn't date (not for lack of trying), I didn't play any school sports, I was in choir and drama, and I started the chess team. Hence, "faggot." That was 1984-1988 and I still don't get it today. I remember having to look over my shoulder when I walked home from school, but all that meant was avoiding being spit on, trash-canned, swirlied, duct-taped, or in some other way humiliated.

I can't even fathom what it would have been like had I actually been gay. That little town would have had a collective apoplectic fit.

Upward Thrust, you're my new hero.

*Yawn* Bigotry is intolerance not towards individuals but towards groups of people different from you(or in some cases, secretly alike). Being intolerant of someone who holds national socialistic ideals is not bigotry since that persons ideology in itself is intolerant and stands for opression, violence and senseless condemtion over others purely based on natural variations within our species. There is a big difference between dislike and violence but not doing one does not make the other right. This, of course, does not only apply to nazis but to intolerance in general too. Cheers!

That's a different situation. He wasn't going around saying "We dislike your bigoted ass too".
Nope. That was Malcolm X.

Well I am drunk now maby that will work in my defense ... though I dont think so there were almost 200 people there ... I doubt my personal say in things will make much of a difference

Still as the person who stopped the beating you will almost certainly testify. Especially if he is prosecuted for a hate crime. Just be careful what you say ahead of time if you want the best chance of seeing him convicted. Especially if he has the resources for decent representation. The freest speech for an individual isnt always the wisest choice in every situation. This might be one.

That's a different situation. He wasn't going around saying "We dislike your bigoted ass too".
What, and you think he liked the people who thought he was trash just because he was born with dark skin?

Nope. That was Malcolm X.


I found Malcolm X much more tolerant of whites but also more segregationist than Stokely Carmichael


Heres Carmichael speaking

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/sounds/stokelycarmichael-blackpower.mp3

Yeah though personally being tolerant of intolerance is more hypocritical then not being tolerant of intolerance. If you have to draw a line at what to stand up for that seems as good a place as any

Yes, you have to draw the line and where you drew it was absolutely correct, if you had arrived sooner I think you would have drawn it sooner too. Who wouldn't? That is something each of us owes anyone, no matter who it is or their beliefs. Because whether you can stand or can't stand homosexuality, who can stand to see someone beaten? The beating is wrong, the opinions are really irrelevant. The guy doing his part in the booth has an opinion, they guy walking by had one. The guy in the booth didn't try to force it on anyone he caused no harm, they guy walking by did. That is the difference to me.

The beating is wrong, the opinions are really irrelevant.
What if his opinion was that beating someone when he feels the urge to is right, regardless of that other person's beliefs? How can you say that his opinion is wrong?

"Bigotry", as defined by Webster and typed here (because the OSX Widget won't let me copy and paste the dictionary):

Intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

And, in the USAGE NOTES section in the definition for "zealot":

An enthusiast displays an intense and eager interest in something. A fanatic is not only intense and eager, but possibly irrational in his or her enthusiasm; fanatic suggests an extreme devotion and a willingness to go any length to maintain or carry out one's beliefs. A zealot exhibits not only extreme devotion but vehement activity in support of a cause or goal. An extremist is a supporter of extreme doctrines or practices, particularly in a political context. But it is the bigot who causes the most trouble, exhibiting obstinate and often blind devotion to his or her beliefs and opinions. In contrast to fanatic and zealot, the term bigot implies intolerance and contempt for those who do not agree.
(emphases theirs, underlines mine)

Seems pretty clear to me.

"Bigotry", as defined by Webster and typed here (because the OSX Widget won't let me copy and paste the dictionary):



And, in the USAGE NOTES section in the definition for "zealot":



Seems pretty clear to me.

Interesting my copy of MW says:

One intolerantly devoted to his or her prejudices or opinions. syn- fanatic, enthusiast, zealot

Mine is paperback, perhaps that explains it.:p

Okay, I'm throwing in my two cents.

I know a gay guy. He's a very feminine type of man, and he does a few stereotypical things, but it's all for fun. It's cool.

Now, I don't really like the whole idea, in all honesty. I can't really handle the thought of men dating men and that whole thing. That's my failing. However, the gay guy I know? He's still one of my best friends. I've known him ever since I can remember. (And that's a truth: I started CLEARLY remembering things around five, and I knew him at that point. :p )

When he first told me that he was gay, I was sort of spooked, to be truthful. I felt more awkward around him, for a time. But in the end, he was exactly the same guy as before, and we get along just fine. In fact, I just gave him my congratulations and blessings, as he shall be getting married in the near future.

What kind of friend wouldn't be happy for him and his fiancè?
A big, nasty ol' biggoted one! :D

But what I'm saying is that I used to have a mild case of homophobia. I can look back at it now and think, 'Hehe...that was dumb,' because of my benefitial situation. I'd known the guy for years, and he was my first real introduction to the turbulent world of gays. (They do have quite a troubled existence in today's world, you have to admit.:( )

But if people could have an advantage like I did, I think that the problem of 'Gay Bashing' could easily decrease...a lot. And then arguments - such as the one that has engulfed this thread - would be much more rare, which would be great.

What if his opinion was that beating someone when he feels the urge to is right, regardless of that other person's beliefs? How can you say that his opinion is wrong?

If beating someone is the prevailing opinon of someone I think we can assume the person will act on it....which makes them a criminal. If they don't act on it, then it just makes them mentally ill....in my opinion. :D

Been threatened, pushed, had bottles thrown at me. Nothing too terribly damaging, at least physically. Threats of rape are never easy psychologically. Neither are remarks about "disgusting lesbo display" for *holding hands* while about four feet away a het couple was engaged in activity that would have got them easily slapped with a public indecency charge anywhere outside of the French Quarter (and even there if it were a slow night). Really, wtf?

I don't see how Fass' intolerance is hypocritical. It's not the same as bigotry.

To me, the difference between bigotry and intolerance (whatever the dictionary says) is that bigotry includes intolerance of people because of what they are, not because of what they say or do. Intolerance can be justified if it is directed towards attitudes, opinions or choices (especially negative ones, like homophobia or xenophobia). It turns to bigotry if it's directed towards someone's nature, personality, or appearance. These are characteristics people can't help but having (and shouldn't have to worry about). You can criticise ideals or beliefs, but you can't expect people to stop being gay. Or black. Or female. Or whatever it is you "just can't stand".

I'm aware that tolerance to intolerance is necessary to some extent, if you don't want to get involved in endless discussion. But tolerance to bigotry is self-destructive.

While I appreciate the effort CK, never have I said I disliked gays, not in the least. My point was the hatred from people toward someone (the poster who did say they can't stand gays) is intolerant in itself.

Actually you said you can't stand them and that is a very good indicator of bigotry.

As one of my redneck relatives would say "I can't stand niggers"

So yes you are a biggot.

I got chased, but not actually beaten up while I was out with a boyfriend in what, to be honest, was quite a dangerous area. :rolleyes:

In my opinion, I'd say a quiet bigotry rather than overt hatred is the more prevalent feature of our society today. Among a minority, anyway.

I just can never wrap my usually-flexible mind around what makes someone think that injuring or killing someone just because of who they are is an okay thing to do. Have I felt rage? Yes. Rage enough to want to find a weapon? Yes. Because someone was...I dunno, Conservative? Fascist? A Steelers fan? No. Never.

"Faggot" to me was just what those above me in the high school social food chain called me. I didn't date (not for lack of trying), I didn't play any school sports, I was in choir and drama, and I started the chess team. Hence, "faggot." That was 1984-1988 and I still don't get it today. I remember having to look over my shoulder when I walked home from school, but all that meant was avoiding being spit on, trash-canned, swirlied, duct-taped, or in some other way humiliated.

I can't even fathom what it would have been like had I actually been gay. That little town would have had a collective apoplectic fit.

Upward Thrust, you're my new hero.

I had the advantage in highschool of being the big farmer boy ... dispite not being on sports myself and in band and on play set crew I knew the right people and was big enough no one fooled with me

But we had an excetpionaly good highschool too ...

Still as the person who stopped the beating you will almost certainly testify. Especially if he is prosecuted for a hate crime. Just be careful what you say ahead of time if you want the best chance of seeing him convicted. Especially if he has the resources for decent representation. The freest speech for an individual isnt always the wisest choice in every situation. This might be one.
I will keep that in mind ... they never counsoled me to keep quiet about it but I wont give out any more info on this incedent just incase

I will keep that in mind ... they never counsoled me to keep quiet about it but I wont give out any more info on this incedent just incase
You shouldn't have to be quiet. You weren't the person doing something wrong.

Next time, beat his ass until he can't walk, and tell him that's to remind him that it's impolite to bash people because of their sexual preference.

You shouldn't have to be quiet. You weren't the person doing something wrong.

Next time, beat his ass until he can't walk, and tell him that's to remind him that it's impolite to bash people because of their sexual preference.
Like I said the last time I got attacked I took 3 of them with me to the hospital :)

This time was much less violent (if less satisfying)

(Btw here is a place where you and me happen to agree)

Oh that is perfect, someones says they don't like gays and now you label them a biggoted ass. Wow, where's all that tolerance you should have??????

Theres no intolerance in calling em like you see em.

And for the record I'd like to know what gays have done to you to warrant such animosity.

What if his opinion was that beating someone when he feels the urge to is right, regardless of that other person's beliefs? How can you say that his opinion is wrong?

If you think beating someone is right, other than in self-defense, you have issues.

If you think beating someone is right, other than in self-defense, you have issues.
I've successfully used beating to educate people who otherwise would not be educable.

Well sir thrusty got in a fight on Friday … I have been working nights so I did not get a chance to type this up before…
[. . .]
Anyways the point of this story is to 1) vent on the assholes that pull this shit 2) wonder if anyone gay or not has seen or participated in any anti-gay act of violence or vandalism

I've never been attacked, though I know at least one guy who was several years ago. I've never been verbally harassed except for a couple of drive-by 'faggings' but those don't bother me much because 1) they're always done by two or more chickenshits in cars who don't even stop when I yell anti-straight epithets back, and 2) I don't think they're even yelling at me personally, because in their unoriginal little minds 'fag' is just something terrible that you can call someone you can't even identify by the back of their head. I've never observed homophobic property crime (but I'd be on my cellphone to the cops like stink on a monkey if I did), and I've never witnessed any of my people being physically assaulted, though I kinda wish I would, because a couple of friends-- almost as militant as I am-- and I would love to 'interdict' a gay-bashing and stomp the attacker(s) until they were in no position to threaten anyone else for a good long time.

So, incidentally, you're invited to accept a lifetime honourary commission in the Gay Street Militia. Enlistment requirements aren't all that extensive, though. Basically you just need to be GLBT or an ally, and willing (if not angrily eager) to crack open some whup-ass on bigots when you see them being... erm... 'bigoty.'

If you think beating someone is right, other than in self-defense, you have issues.
Well, sure. To a reasonable person. But if someone believes that saying "I hate fags" in earnest doesn't make you a bigot, because it's just your opinion, then thinking it's A-OK to beat someone up for your own pleasure doesn't make you a mental case. After all, it's just your opinion.

AT that point I did not think I walked up behind the larger man (much closer to my size then ryan the glbt guy) and kicked him to the back of the knee then pushed him face first to the floor pining him down

Did not have to wait long because public safety had a table there too and they came over and helped restrain him till the cops got there.


Anyways the point of this story is to 1) vent on the assholes that pull this shit 2) wonder if anyone gay or not has seen or participated in any anti-gay act of violence or vandalism

Suuuuuuurrrrrreeeeeeee you did.

2) wonder if anyone gay or not has seen or participated in any anti-gay act of violence or vandalism

Neither seen nor participated, fortunately. But I wish I could say the same for homosexuals I know.

My uncle was beaten up by anti-gay thugs (in San Fransisco, I think) and was made to "bite the curb." Fortunately he was ok, this happened a while ago.

The next one is a bit more lighthearted. A dear friend of mine came out when he was very young and it quickly spread around school. One day one of the school bullies went up to him and said "I heard you're gay, you'd better stay away from me because I'm a claustrophobe."

EDIT: Well done UT

I've successfully used beating to educate people who otherwise would not be educable.

Whats your definition of "education" in this case?

Suuuuuuurrrrrreeeeeeee you did.
Lol personally I don’t care if you believe me or not (though if you want I have pictures of me on a chest tube and the scar after the lung staples)

This is not the first time I have had to stand up for myself or people I know.

Either way the the topic was about violence associated wtih homosexuality ... if you dont have anything constructive to add ...