NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just thinking about the hundards of conspiracy theories that are out there, like Roswell, JFk's assasination, UFO's. I just wondered what you people thought about them. Are they real or is someone just paranoid? :confused:

IMHO conspiracy theorists give the govenment too much much credit. Do they really believe that a govenment that screws up so often can accually put off, and keep these things hidden for decades? If they do, then I fear they have severely mistaken the government as competent.:(

I don't really have much faith in the American Government, especially after they made LSD as a mind control device...
Oh, and some form of life (at least bacterial) exists on some other planet, to deny it would be quite ignorant...

Hammergoats
Oh, and some form of life (at least bacterial) exists on some other planet, to deny it would be quite ignorant...

Oh don't get me wrong I do think there is life elsewhere in the universe, its just I really don't think they would come thousands of light years just to obduct some werdo from the middle of no where.

Well that's all right then!!!:p
You get a cookie!!!!

Cool! a cookie!

*stuffs cookie into mouth*

fanks:D

no problem! now, back on topic!!!
*slaps you*

Seriously - the conspiracy theorists are out to get us!!

no problem! now, back on topic!!!
*slaps you*

*goes and hides in corner until some else comes*

I was just thinking about the hundards of conspiracy theories that are out there, like Roswell, JFk's assasination, UFO's. I just wondered what you people thought about them. Are they real or is someone just paranoid? :confused:

IMHO conspiracy theorists give the govenment too much much credit. Do they really believe that a govenment that screws up so often can accually put off, and keep these things hidden for decades? If they do, then I fear they have severely mistaken the government as competent.:(
None of those are real conspiracies practiced by the government, but a conspiracy practiced every day is in the public schools. They revise history to glorify the American government.

None of those are real conspiracies practiced by the government, but a conspiracy practiced every day is in the public schools. They revise history to glorify the American government.

I heard the Jews were behind it.

I enjoy reading conspiracy theories and think they make a good X-Files episode, but I don't believe many of them. Sure, a couple make sense; but I don't buy into most of them. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to put on my tinfoil hat and stop my cat from transmitting my thoughts to the aliens who are working with the government.

Roswell, JFK, etc. were all set up as false conspiracies so that nobody would give any credit to the truth. The government actively creates b.s. conspiracy theories to detract attention from the true conspiracies, ie. GPS locators in cell phones, cars, and infants. Once the chips are implanted in all of us, the fascist corporate dictatorship will openly rise to power. The shadow government is preparing for a new world order. Buy stock in the tinfoil market now, before it's too late! Shiney side out!

these tin foil hats sound like a good idea, please tell me how to make one. should it just be a plain dome over my head or some other unusual way?

Please Hurry! They are after me!!!!

You guys better stop saying this, you do know that the government is watching every that we say. These forums are here so they can keep tabs on us.

Oh don't get me wrong I do think there is life elsewhere in the universe, its just I really don't think they would come thousands of light years just to obduct some werdo from the middle of no where.

They probably wouldn't interfere; if they can reach us they're likely so advanced that doing so would be the equivalent of trying to engage in conversation with a dog...and even if they wanted to, they could just disguise themselves as humans or send probes down to the planet to explore.

It's a lot more likely that aliens are observing us and helping to guide our development from afar rather than coming down to Earth and abducting the bottom of the human barrel for the purpose of learning about us. Maybe if they abducted, you know, someone like Stephen Hawking or some other intellectual or visionary I might give it more credibility...

:gundge: PREACH ON BROTHER BEFORE ITS TO LATE!!!!!!!!!
DIE ALIEN SCUM:gundge: :mp5: :sniper: I just wish I knew about the anteneas being bad sooner:headbang:

They probably wouldn't interfere; if they can reach us they're likely so advanced that doing so would be the equivalent of trying to engage in conversation with a dog...and even if they wanted to, they could just disguise themselves as humans or send probes down to the planet to explore.

It's a lot more likely that aliens are observing us and helping to guide our development from afar rather than coming down to Earth and abducting the bottom of the human barrel for the purpose of learning about us. Maybe if they abducted, you know, someone like Stephen Hawking or some other intellectual or visionary I might give it more credibility...

I totally agree

There is one thing which people never seem to think and that is what if (and this is unlikely) we ARE the oldest and most advanced race in the galaxy/universe?
I dout it, but you never know ;) :p

Oh don't get me wrong I do think there is life elsewhere in the universe, its just I really don't think they would come thousands of light years just to obduct some werdo from the middle of no where.

This, in and of itself, is not a valid argument against supposed alien visitation. Why should the motivations of an extraterrestrial sapient conform to any human conceptions of reasonability? Why should such motivations even lie within the realm of the humanly conceivable?

I have heard the theory that aliens are really us thousands of years in the future and we have perfected time travel. I know a couple people who have a Ph.D. in Physics who truly believe this theory. Anyone else ever hear of this?

I totally agree

There is one thing which people never seem to think and that is what if (and this is unlikely) we ARE the oldest and most advanced race in the galaxy/universe?
I dout it, but you never know ;) :p

If we are, then how could anyone be looking for us? Too primitive rules out contact just as likely as too advanced. ;)

I guess that answers the question just as well as the possibility that they are too advanced to contact us...maybe they're still in a Stone Age or only clusters of algae drifting on a primordial sea?

Perhaps the story about the red rain over India yesterday is part of an alien contact...they're not superior beings or ruthless high-tech conquerors, just simple cells on a meteor drifting through space.

I have heard the theory that aliens are really us thousands of years in the future and we have perfected time travel. I know a couple people who have a Ph.D. in Physics who truly believe this theory. Anyone else ever hear of this?

nope, this is the first time I've heard about it.

Makes some kind of sence, like why they usually have one head two arms and two legs when the chances of something co-evolving to look remotely like us is a million-one.

I'm a skeptic.

Paranoia.

When presented with multiple explanations, the simplest one is usually the most likely.

Vetalia
Perhaps the story about the red rain over India yesterday is part of an alien contact...they're not superior beings or ruthless high-tech conquerors, just simple cells on a meteor drifting through space.

Yeah! and the rains of fish are the anual migration of the interglactic samon.

COOL!!!

Im just wondering, if aliens did crash land in Roswell and if life clearly exists out in an infinitely huge universe (or 2, or 3) Why did the 1948 government try to keep everything under huge security and secrecy if the incident was just "a weather balloon crash landing" and the bodies "were just crash-test dummies"?

Some conspiracy theories are quite believable,(JFK, Aliens) but some are just plain nonsense. (Hollow Earth? wtf?)

Im just wondering, if aliens did crash land in Roswell and if life clearly exists out in an infinitely huge universe (or 2, or 3) Why did the 1948 government try to keep everything under huge security and secrecy if the incident was just "a weather balloon crash landing" and the bodies "were just crash-test dummies"?

Some conspiracy theories are quite believable,(JFK, Aliens) but some are just plain nonsense. (Hollow Earth? wtf?)

JFK was shot, by somebody. He died. Whoever shot him is likely dead now too. Consider the matter closed.

As for Aliens: Traveling at 17 km/s (the velocity of the Voyager probe, the fastest large object we've got in space) it would take about 74,000 years for it to travel to Proxima Centauri if it were pointed at it (which it isn't) and it survived the trip (which it probably wouldn't). Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindboggingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.

Let's make a mental model. Say the scale is such that one astronomical unit is equal to one millimeter (1/25th inch). There is a glowing dot for the Sun, and one millimeter away is a microscopic speck representing the Earth. The edge of the solar system is about at Pluto's orbit, which varies from 30 mm to 50 mm from the Sun (about 1 and 3/16 inch to almost 2 inches). Imagine this ten-centimeter model floating above your palm.

This would put Proxima Centauri, the closest star to the Sun, at about 272 meters away. That's 892 feet, the length of about two and a half football fields or four and a half New York city blocks! Glance at the ten-centimeter solar system in your hand, then contemplate the nearest solar system four and a half city blocks away.

And the center of the galaxy would be about 1600 kilometers away (about 990 miles), which is a bit more than the distance from Chicago, Illinois to Houston, Texas.

Suddenly the whole idea of aliens paying us a visit sounds more than a little improbable. Now I wouldn't be at all suprised if there are alien thingys out there on some planet around a star somewhere in our sky. But the problem is that life won't look anything like Dr. Spock (mostly human with pointy ears) or Warf (mostly human with wrinkly scalp). And do you really think that aliens would fly all that way here just to stick something in your ass (anal probe stories)? I think it'd be a pretty big waste of space if we were the only ones here but until some spikey crystal planimal (alien enough for ya?) actually sends us a hello I don't think there's proof of life on other planets.

PARANOID!!!!@!@!@!@!


THE ALIENS ARE COMING TO KILL USSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!


ARGGGGGGGGGHGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH...gurgle...ahhhh

I have heard the theory that aliens are really us thousands of years in the future and we have perfected time travel. I know a couple people who have a Ph.D. in Physics who truly believe this theory. Anyone else ever hear of this?

. Thats why they have two eyes one head two arms and two legs and are really really interested in humans. Instead of being pure energy beings or loooking like snakes cthulu or Myrth for example. Evolution of humans is also why they dont all look alike or act alike. Some are on holiday some are anthropologists some are avid historians. Remember if time travel ever exists it is here already. That is why I formed this theory ten years from now.

I believe that there is life from other planets and it may have tried to make contact with earth, but I don't believe (at least not here in the US anyway) that the government knows much more than we do if any more at all. I mean, does the US government really come across as being competent enough to keep a secret like that hidden? They couldn't even figure out how to press criminal charges against Saddam Hussein, the man they freaking invaded Iraq over, until long after he was caught.

I figure ghosts are hoaxes as well. The Major Religions all pooled resources for actors and special effects and mass hypnotists worldwide to fool people into believing in souls and life-after-death and what have you. It's insidious and an affront to all followers of sensible science everywhere. Dont be fooled!

I figure ghosts are hoaxes as well.

hehe - try spending a week in my old house and try to say that again =P When you have disembodied voices telling you things and see people in the mirror who just aren't there and have invisible forces shoving you around you tend to gain a strong belief in ghosts.
And I know it's not insanity - my sister saw/heard the same things and I haven't had any experiences like that since I moved.

The problem with ghosts is that nobody can get them to show up in a lab and submit to a "physical"

There are just too many variables and 9/10 times creaking sounds and other stuff like that can be explained. It's the other 1/10 that can't be explained that bugs me but that doesn't mean that we need to jump to the conclusion that they're ghosts.

I hope there is something after this life, if not I'd just shoot myself now and get it over with.

JFK was shot, by somebody. He died. Whoever shot him is likely dead now too. Consider the matter closed.

As for Aliens: Traveling at 17 km/s (the velocity of the Voyager probe, the fastest large object we've got in space) it would take about 74,000 years for it to travel to Proxima Centauri if it were pointed at it (which it isn't) and it survived the trip (which it probably wouldn't). Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindboggingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.

Let's make a mental model. Say the scale is such that one astronomical unit is equal to one millimeter (1/25th inch). There is a glowing dot for the Sun, and one millimeter away is a microscopic speck representing the Earth. The edge of the solar system is about at Pluto's orbit, which varies from 30 mm to 50 mm from the Sun (about 1 and 3/16 inch to almost 2 inches). Imagine this ten-centimeter model floating above your palm.

This would put Proxima Centauri, the closest star to the Sun, at about 272 meters away. That's 892 feet, the length of about two and a half football fields or four and a half New York city blocks! Glance at the ten-centimeter solar system in your hand, then contemplate the nearest solar system four and a half city blocks away.

And the center of the galaxy would be about 1600 kilometers away (about 990 miles), which is a bit more than the distance from Chicago, Illinois to Houston, Texas.

Suddenly the whole idea of aliens paying us a visit sounds more than a little improbable. Now I wouldn't be at all suprised if there are alien thingys out there on some planet around a star somewhere in our sky. But the problem is that life won't look anything like Dr. Spock (mostly human with pointy ears) or Warf (mostly human with wrinkly scalp). And do you really think that aliens would fly all that way here just to stick something in your ass (anal probe stories)? I think it'd be a pretty big waste of space if we were the only ones here but until some spikey crystal planimal (alien enough for ya?) actually sends us a hello I don't think there's proof of life on other planets.
You're right...but I gotta call you on mistakes. Dr. Spock? Warf? It's just plain Spock, and Worf. There is a Dr. Spock, but that's a real dude. A pediatrician, I think. Get your Trekkie terms right next time! [/irate fanboyism]

Anyway, as for conspiracy theories: they make my scientificly-inclined mind cringe in distaste.

I myself am I trekker (not trekkie, there is a difference!). I'm glad someone caught the mistakes I put in there. Shows that you're paying attention.

I myself am I trekker (not trekkie, there is a difference!). I'm glad someone caught the mistakes I put in there. Shows that you're paying attention.
Yes, there is a difference. Trekke is a term people who are afraid of social stigma came up with to try and separate themselves from stereotypical Trekkies. I hate the term because of that, because it makes people sound as if they care far too much about what others think of them, nevermind the fact that most people nowadays don't associate Trekkie with "overweight nerd living in his mom's basement" anymore. It kinda goes against the whole message Roddenbarry had in his shows.

But then, that's just my opinion.

Trekker vs Trekkie
A Trekker wears a starfleet uniform to a convention because it's fun.
A Trekkie wears a starfleet uniform to a convention because s/he has heard that it is in style at theacademy.

A Trekker has a Starfleet Academy window sticker on his car.
A Trekkie is cramming for the entrance exams.

A Trekker meets Marina Sirtis/Gates McFadden at a convention, tells her how pretty he thinks she is, that it is too bad she is married or he would ask her out.
A Trekkie meets Deanna Troi/Dr. Crusher at a convention, tells her how pretty he thinks she is, and asks her if she is still seeing Riker (Picard, some alien patient, et al).

A Trekker loves watching the show, nitpicking and discussing it with friends.
A Trekkie loves watching those documentaries filmed aboard the Enterprise.

A Trekker thinks Wil Wheaton was a lucky kid who got to play a kid on Star Trek.
A Trekkie thinks that Wesley Crusher was a lucky kid who got to sit on the bridge.

A Trekker thinks that it is a shame that the show is coming to an end.
A Trekkie thinks that it is a shame that the crew is being reassigned and the Enterprise is being decomissioned.

A Trekker knows that there are gaping holes in the technology, but ignores them and enjoys the show.
A Trekkie can't wait for the price to come down on those home food replicator units.

A Trekker buys pips for the rank s/he wants to be.
A Trekkie wonders why he is constantly passed over for promotion.

A Trekker tells his/her new girl/boyfriend that s/he really likes Star Trek.
A Trekkie's new girl/boyfriend is an underclassman at the academy.

A Trekker wonders what sex in zero g would be like.
A Trekkie wonders what sex would be like.

Nuff said.

As I said before, they're just really, seriously, paranoid.

Don't forget about Fluoride (http://www.geocities.com/Northstarzone/FLUORIDE.html) and the white lines in the sky aka .. Chemtrails! (http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemdatapage.html)

Don't forget about Fluoride (http://www.geocities.com/Northstarzone/FLUORIDE.html) and the white lines in the sky aka .. Chemtrails! (http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemdatapage.html)
Because as we all know, fluoride can control our minds/behavior

The problem with ghosts is that nobody can get them to show up in a lab and submit to a "physical"



The problem is all the medical insurance forms the ghost has to fill out. Poor things can barely lift a pen much less use one. The dead are notoriously lax about getting even rudimentary medical care.

Two things to always remember:

1. Every legend has a grain of truth behind it.

2. If 1000 people claim to get kidnapped by aliens, and 999 of them are lying, that means 1 guy is correct.

Two things to always remember:

1. Every legend has a grain of truth behind it.

2. If 1000 people claim to get kidnapped by aliens, and 999 of them are lying, that means 1 guy is correct.
This assumes that the success rate is 1 in 1000. If it's 0 in 1000, you have no such luck

This assumes that the success rate is 1 in 1000. If it's 0 in 1000, you have no such luck


Dont make me whap you with the Technical Stick!

The point is, that if even one guy is NOT crazy, mistaken, etc..then that means that his experiences are real.

There are millions of people who claim all sorts of crazy things...are they all wrong?

There are millions of people who claim all sorts of crazy things...are they all wrong?

Well, this seems to be leading into a false dichotomy. The false dichotomy would be that people have to either believe that the experiences were objectively real, or that all the people are wrong. There is an alternative, and that is that we often trick ourselves into experiences and thus 'experience' things for a number of reasons, aside from direct objective stimuli.

For example, many people experience almost identical 'alien abductions' due to hypnogogic senstaions, but there is no objective alien stimuli that causes them. Yet, this is what they experience, and the experiences aren't any less real to them either. They sure aren't wrong, making it up, or lying per se.

Well, this seems to be leading into a false dichotomy. The false dichotomy would be that people have to either believe that the experiences were objectively real, or that all the people are wrong. There is an alternative, and that is that we often trick ourselves into experiences and thus 'experience' things for a number of reasons, aside from direct objective stimuli.

For example, many people experience almost identical 'alien abductions' due to hypnogogic senstaions, but there is no objective alien stimuli that causes them. Yet, this is what they experience, and the experiences aren't any less real to them either. They sure aren't wrong, making it up, or lying per se.


Your analogy can also be used to explain why people believe in God.

However, youre taking this too literally.
Im saying that every myth, legend, and fable usually has a grain of truth behind it.
If one million people all claim to have the same hallucination, the chances of it actually being a hallucination, are drastically reduced.

Can we be certain that not ONE of these people who claim to have been abducted (and you really shouldnt focus on abductions, im merely using them as an example, not trying to validate them), were not hallucinating, on drugs, or imagined the experience, or lying?

Im not willing to make that claim, and neither should you.

Your analogy can also be used to explain why people believe in God.

However, youre taking this too literally.
Im saying that every myth, legend, and fable usually has a grain of truth behind it.
If one million people all claim to have the same hallucination, the chances of it actually being a hallucination, are drastically reduced.

Can we be certain that not ONE of these people who claim to have been abducted (and you really shouldnt focus on abductions, im merely using them as an example, not trying to validate them), were not hallucinating, on drugs, or imagined the experience, or lying?

Im not willing to make that claim, and neither should you.

Well, I don't think we can be certain of any such thing like that, no. We can't really have objective certainty of these things at this point in time. The best we can do is evaluate the cases individually and as a collective phenomena, then draw a reasonable conclusion.

And I agree that numbers of people claiming the same experience would reduce the probability of it being a hallucination or something, all I was saying is that all we can reasonably conclude is that there may be something giving them this experience, rather than the actual entity of the experience (like an alien) being the thing giving it to them.

Well, I don't think we can be certain of any such thing like that, no. We can't really have objective certainty of these things at this point in time. The best we can do is evaluate the cases individually and as a collective phenomena, then draw a reasonable conclusion.

And I agree that numbers of people claiming the same experience would reduce the probability of it being a hallucination or something, all I was saying is that all we can reasonably conclude is that there may be something giving them this experience, rather than the actual entity of the experience (like an alien) being the thing giving it to them.

Ah, here is where we differ.

The easiest path would be to conclude that there is an outside influence that is causing them to have this experience, rather than actual entity, or entities.

What if its both?

What if, a small percentage of these people, are indeed, actually experiencing events to wich have no logical explainations, and are not perceptually altered at all?

What if...2 out of every 1000 people who make the claim of being abducted, may have some credibilty to them?
Every so often, one of these crackpots who claim to have been abducted has a really good story, one that has details that the rest may have missed, or never adressed.

Im not willing to say "I think some people are being abducted by aliens", but Im not willing to deny its possibility.

Well, I don't think we can be certain of any such thing like that, no. We can't really have objective certainty of these things at this point in time. The best we can do is evaluate the cases individually and as a collective phenomena, then draw a reasonable conclusion.

And I agree that numbers of people claiming the same experience would reduce the probability of it being a hallucination or something, all I was saying is that all we can reasonably conclude is that there may be something giving them this experience, rather than the actual entity of the experience (like an alien) being the thing giving it to them.
I will give you one example of what may elude us like an hallucination:

Indigenous people living close to the Arctic have been warning us for decades of small changes in the environment. We didn't have the eyes or technology to see or register small changes. So we ignored them. Decades later, our scientists are still not in full accord on what's causing global warming, while the changes are pretty obvious.

Indigenous were extremely sensitised. They were detecting deviations of natural patterns, while we were walking and window-shopping. They would move, if necessary, with nature and they adapted. We, on the other hand, continued business as usual.
So I ask you, Who's having hallucinations in this case? Surely, not the indigenous...

Another example: Global warming advocates were scare-mongering lunatics until about 5-10 years ago. Now the hallucinations fall mostly on the sceptics.

Some hallucinations are this. We switch arguments and still continue business as usual. There is a growing number of people who are more and more sensitised to the fact that we are destroying our planet to the ground. Powerless and in despair against this unstoppable machine of making money, some people turn to God.

All of them see a very dark future ahead, without trees, without freedom, without food, without peace, without many things; our values eroding faster and faster; our governors getting away with murder. Want to know why they talk of Angels and UFO's? Because deep down they grab the little hope left they've got on mankind and place it on the hands of the Gods and Aliens. They hope someone will come to the rescue. They are allucinating of course...

Then there is another group of people who are caught in the fundamentalist way our modern societies use reason and logic for everything. We don't live in a Rational world. We live in a Natural world and we need a balance of both. It is all too good being rational but reason only believes in what it's senses can detect. I would argue that those who overuse their reason, loose their capability to sense the full destruction of the natural world.