NationStates Jolt Archive

How common do you think homosexuality is in the military? In my 2 years in the Army, I was witness to at least 12 guys engaging in gay behavior. My friend who served 1 year in Iraq (2004) was privy to at least 3 guys in his unit who engaged in same sex behavior.

I attribute this to Situational Sexual Behavior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_homosexuality

"a situational modification of conversational behaviour resulting from social pressures"

Situational sexual behavior is sexual behavior of a kind that is different from what is usual for that person (or from what that person normally exhibits) due to a social environment that permits, encourages, or compels those acts.
For example, people who travel overseas might not have sex with prostitutes in their home countries, but do so when they visit other countries, where such activities are legal or ignored by authorities. To contrast, for those whose primary sexual identification is pedophilia, visiting foreign countries where sex with minors can be easily practiced is not situational sexual behavior.

Other examples are people in prison, the military, or other sex-segregated communities, where members of those communities often engage in homosexual behaviors but identify as heterosexual otherwise.

Many people change their sexual behaviour depending on the situation. For example, men and women in university may practice bisexuality only in that environment. Experimentation of this sort is more common among adolescents, both male and female.

IN the "Don't ask, don't tell" world of the military, it is very difficult to come to terms with this. Of course, this does not necessarily mean these soldiers are homosexual, they are just adapting out of frustration, thus creating a lot of confusion and internal conflict.

What are your thoughts, experiences?

[WARNING: This is in no way an Anti-American, Anti-US military bashing thread, it is merely based on first hand, personal sociological obervations. To flamers (no pun intended) along these lines, a resounding :upyours: before we get started.]

I think this thread is stupid.

Homosexuality in the Military - More common than we think???

What are "we" supposed to think? Gay people can serve openly in most first world countries. I doubt homosexuality is any more or less common in the military.

Homosexual acts among heterosexuals? That, one can never have too much of.

What military are we discussing?

I'll assume the UK, as this is a UK hosted forum.

We probably have plenty of homosexuality in the military, as homosexuals are allowed to be perfectly open, and the army is looking towards homosexuals as a group it doesn't get enough recruits from, and trying to expand its recruitment base there.

I imagine there's about the same proportion of homosexuals to heterosexuals in most militaries as there would be on the streets of those countries.

"They don't have to be straight, just shoot straight."

I don't care, and by posting I am stating my opinion as benefited in my right to presentable free speech. Notice the word 'presentable'.

What military are we discussing?

I'll assume the UK, as this is a UK hosted forum.

We probably have plenty of homosexuality in the military, as homosexuals are allowed to be perfectly open, and the army is looking towards homosexuals as a group it doesn't get enough recruits from, and trying to expand its recruitment base there.

I was referring to the US military, and I wish ours was as open and accepting as others. Unfortunately, the US military, does not allow homosexuals who are open about their sexuality. Yes there are gays in the US military, but we have what they call "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. Basically you can serve but you must remain in the closet. If you are out as gay, you are not allowed to enter the millitary or are booted from it if you are currently serving.

*shrugs* Is that really much more different than homosexual to heterosexual rates in the normal population? Think about it.

"They don't have to be straight, just shoot straight."
well said

although I'd preffer they dint do what they do, everyone is entitled to do whatever they want with their life

I think this thread is stupid.

I agree. If the want to serve and die, thats their choice.

Just like getting married. Why do hetrosexual couples have to be the only ones that suffer?

I imagine there's about the same proportion of homosexuals to heterosexuals in most militaries as there would be on the streets of those countries.

The US would have to be the exception....The military is hard-core bush country.

"They don't have to be straight, just shoot straight."

The same idea applies to women in combat. If you are thinking of sex while getting shot at, then you definately need to re-examine your priorities ASAP.

The men in the military are away from their wives/girlsfriends/whatevs on a distant locale and away for a very long time. So they must satisfy their sexual urges in way or another. Not surprising to see that this is common. I mean... look at the predominantly male prisons...

The US would have to be the exception....The military is hard-core bush country.
I wondered when someone would post this stupid canard. Tell me, if the military is so hard-core Bush country, then why are all the veterans who are running for Congress this year running as Democrats?

As to the OP, I think it probably runs about what it does in the general population, maybe a little less because the environment is so hostile, but not very much so. One thing is for certain--in the current situation, when recruiting is as difficult as it is for the Army, going after gays is a particularly stupid thing to do. The Army needs as many soldiers as they can get right now, and tossing a trained person because he or she likes to have sex with their own gender is a terrifically short-sighted idea. The civilian leadership could put a stop to it with a word or an executive order, but they won't because it's politically inexpedient.

The men in the military are away from their wives/girlsfriends/whatevs on a distant locale and away for a very long time. So they must satisfy their sexual urges in way or another. Not surprising to see that this is common. I mean... look at the predominantly male prisons...

The most common sexual activity in male prisons is female staff to male inmate sexual contact, according to most research. However, keep in mind it's hard to get a count on male to male inmate sexual contact. Female to female sexual contact is very easy to record because women in prison aren't as shy to talk about their prison relationships. It's not uncommon for women to form a family while they are in prison. Most men and women will return to their heterosexual lives once released; this is well researched. Hey, I guess my Penology class has come in handy after all!

Anyhow, nine out of ten Sociologists will tell you that the homosexuality in the military and prisons is due to Situational Sexual Behavior, as stated in the first post. After we hammered this topic in Social Theory, I asked my friend that was in the Air Force if he agreed with the theory and he said, "yes." He also said it's not uncommon for someone to sell their girlfriend for sex during a visit and make thousands of dollars. I found the second "fact" shocking, but I wasn't surprised to hear that he agreed with the theory. Hell, we even talked about it in an Honors English class I took when we read books on war. I think most people in academia will agree. I don't think it's "against" the military to say such things (we're not saying EVERYONE will turn to homosexuality); I think it's just something that happens and no one should hold it against anyone for engaging in homosexual relations.

"They don't have to be straight, just shoot straight."


There ya go !

Who cares as long as they do the job ?

Wasnt Alexander Gay ? Montgomery ? ............and many others...

War at least should be an equal employer .

There ya go !

Who cares as long as they do the job ?

Wasnt Alexander Gay ? Montgomery ? ............and many others...

War at least should be an equal employer .

Pretty sure that Alexander was bi. He actually wanted one of the heterosexual marriages. But it's the same idea as far as this thread is concerned.

The Penology research is pretty well documented and applies fairly well to prisons, but does not appy nearly as elegantly to the US military.

In the US military the proportions are roughly the same, percentage-wise as they are outside the military. The numbers occasionally fluctuate up or down, but tend to stay fairly constant.

The number of military service members who succumb to "Situational Sexual Awareness" is relatively small in a peacetime military. The time the numbers go up for this is during time of hostilities and deployments into a combat zone. This is perfectly normal and can even be called routine.

I can tell you from my experience as a gay officer, that I DID have something resembling a sex life, but I had to be smart, cautious and keep my relationships a long way away from my duty station. Heck, I locked my military ID in sealed envelopes in hotel safes more often than I care to recall, just in case my lovers got nosy. I certainly was the king of long distance relationships and I NEVER kept an account on the common gay services like gay.com, gaydar.co.uk or outpersonals.com.

I personally know of close to a hundred guys who are gay and serving right now. Of course, now I'm older and a qualified crisis counselor and I get these referrals as a matter of routine, which are kept strictly confidential. I keep no record of real names of the referrals either.

I think quite a lot of the American folks would be shocked at how many gay Marines I know.

Does it matter if it's more common or not? What's the difference?

I wondered when someone would post this stupid canard. Tell me, if the military is so hard-core Bush country, then why are all the veterans who are running for Congress this year running as Democrats?
He's speaking of the military now. My own personal experience and polls both show that the overwhelming majority of those enlisted support Bush; mostly because the vast majority of those in the US military are those that couldn't cut it in the real world and have a talent for rationalizing their actions. Not the sharpest tools in the shed.

He's speaking of the military now. My own personal experience and polls both show that the overwhelming majority of those enlisted support Bush; mostly because the vast majority of those in the US military are those that couldn't cut it in the real world and have a talent for rationalizing their actions. Not the sharpest tools in the shed.
I'm talking about the military now as well--the majority of those running for office as Democrats are veterans of the most recent conflict. They're not people who have been retired for twenty years.

Look, I'm not saying that the military doesn't trend conservative--certainly it does. I'm just saying that to call it hard-core Bush country is a bit much, especially given that it seems nowhere in the US is hard-core Bush country anymore. There's something like 3 states that give Bush more than a 50% approval rating currently, and the highest is Utah with 54% last I saw.

Just to let everyone know, a draft bill (http://rense.com/general71/dd.htm) has been introduced. Would "I'm gay" be a legitimate excuse or should I prepare my passport?

The Penology research is pretty well documented and applies fairly well to prisons, but does not appy nearly as elegantly to the US military.

In the US military the proportions are roughly the same, percentage-wise as they are outside the military. The numbers occasionally fluctuate up or down, but tend to stay fairly constant.

The number of military service members who succumb to "Situational Sexual Awareness" is relatively small in a peacetime military. The time the numbers go up for this is during time of hostilities and deployments into a combat zone. This is perfectly normal and can even be called routine.

I can tell you from my experience as a gay officer, that I DID have something resembling a sex life, but I had to be smart, cautious and keep my relationships a long way away from my duty station. Heck, I locked my military ID in sealed envelopes in hotel safes more often than I care to recall, just in case my lovers got nosy. I certainly was the king of long distance relationships and I NEVER kept an account on the common gay services like gay.com, gaydar.co.uk or outpersonals.com.

I personally know of close to a hundred guys who are gay and serving right now. Of course, now I'm older and a qualified crisis counselor and I get these referrals as a matter of routine, which are kept strictly confidential. I keep no record of real names of the referrals either.

I think quite a lot of the American folks would be shocked at how many gay Marines I know.




hmmm I guess thats why it is called a " penal " institution ....no......:D

To that I say:

Not with those outfits, girlfriend!

Just to let everyone know, a draft bill (http://rense.com/general71/dd.htm) has been introduced. Would "I'm gay" be a legitimate excuse or should I prepare my passport?

That bill, or one like it, has been kicking around Congress for a couple decades now. It'll never pass, because the military is dead set against it.

As far as homosexuality in the military goes - population wise, around 10% of the US population is gay. According to the various studies (Masters and Johnson, Kinsey et al) around 40% of the population will engage in homosexual sex, though identifying themselves as primarily heterosexual.

Given that the military recruits from a reasonably large cross-section of US society, I would expect those numbers to apply equally to the populaton in the military.

That bill, or one like it, has been kicking around Congress for a couple decades now. It'll never pass, because the military is dead set against it.

As far as homosexuality in the military goes - population wise, around 10% of the US population is gay. According to the various studies (Masters and Johnson, Kinsey et al) around 40% of the population will engage in homosexual sex, though identifying themselves as primarily heterosexual.

Given that the military recruits from a reasonably large cross-section of US society, I would expect those numbers to apply equally to the populaton in the military.

Passport it is.

I wouldnt be surprised if homosexual activity wasnt more common in the armed forces.

Firstly, there are few other areas will it will be so predominantly male. And then there is the fact there will be less contact with those of the other sex.

But anyway, it shouldnt matter one jot.

Passport it is.

Uh, if you are going to skip the United States to avoid any compulsory service requirement, it might NOT be a good idea to use a United States passport. You see, you can be very easily tracked by your passport and MOST nations would agree to extradition for you violating a national service requirement.

I don't expect this bill to pass, it would be a detriment to the idea of a professional military. Involuntary service throws everyone into the mix, and be assured conservatives do not want their political advantage of having a professional military service to draw conservative support from to be diminished.

I'm not surprised Charlie Rangel introduced this bill, if implemented it would frankly weaken the Republican grip on the officer corps and especially the enlisted corps.

I have always been pro-conscription. It certainly hasn't hurt the Swiss, and under this law, your compulsory service does not have to be in the armed forces.

If you really want to avoid military service, just offer to give your recruiter a nice sloppy blow job. But don't bluff or be a cocktease. ;)

If you want to leave the country after something like that, you'll probably have to give up citizenship entirely.

I'd hate to do it, but I'm not sure America would be my country anymore if they mandated service to the state. (How would they implement it at first, anyway? Would everyone, 18-42, have to serve all at once? Or would they just make the 18-to-20s do it? Would they maybe go by birthdate?)

If you really want to avoid military service, just offer to give your recruiter a nice sloppy blow job. But don't bluff or be a cocktease. ;)
Ahaha, are you a recruiter?

I think that the number of gays in the military is directly porportional the lowering amount of fear that a gay man (or secretly gay) will end up spitting out many of his teeth, if he wishes to blow the guy in the next bunk.

I think the "meh, whatever" attitude is slowly winning over.

Homosexual acts among heterosexuals? That, one can never have too much of.

Absolutely! Especially when a couple of hot straight jock boys get all tanked and do... stuff... and you get to watch, possibly film it. And then afterwards when they're all confused 'n whatnot, you can be all sympathetic-like and offer them a shoulder to cry on... and 'comfort'... and some more liquor...

...

Whoops, thinking out loud again :D

muah!

I think that the number of gays in the military is directly porportional the lowering amount of fear that a gay man (or secretly gay) will end up spitting out many of his teeth, if he wishes to blow the guy in the next bunk.

So inversely proprtional to the fear of getting the shit beaten out of you for being gay?

And of course it may be just more gay soldiers are willing to admit they are gay, rather than there are any more than before.

Though obviously seemingly according to the american policy that would have to be after leaving the army.

Stupid policy.


I think the "meh, whatever" attitude is slowly winning over.

Yeah. As it should. Who cares who others want to fuck? What matters is if the people you want to fuck want to fuck you too.

The same idea applies to women in combat. If you are thinking of sex while getting shot at, then you definately need to re-examine your priorities ASAP.

Freud would say we were always thinking about sex in combat. :p

Of course, Freud had issues of his own...

If you want to leave the country after something like that, you'll probably have to give up citizenship entirely.

I'd hate to do it, but I'm not sure America would be my country anymore if they mandated service to the state. (How would they implement it at first, anyway? Would everyone, 18-42, have to serve all at once? Or would they just make the 18-to-20s do it? Would they maybe go by birthdate?)


Ahaha, are you a recruiter?

Nope. ;)