NationStates Jolt Archive

Time for a lovely peice of controversy.:D

So a freeform selfishness or an organisational "benevolence"?

Bleh. They're both better than Scientology. That's all I'll say for now.

Time for a lovely peice of controversy.:D


Well, whats the controversy? Whats the question for that matter? :rolleyes:

Well, whats the controversy?

If most people prefere satanism, then thats really going to piss of the Christians.

Whats the question for that matter? :rolleyes:

The question is the question.

Are you one of those people that thinks Satanism is virgin sacrifices and the like?

Are you one of those people that thinks Satanism is virgin sacrifices and the like?

No.

satanism. no contest.

As far as I know, only idiots 'actually' worship Satan, the rest just do it to scare the living hell out of christians. Do you know what 666 means?? neither do the Satan worshippers! They just know it scares christians!!! and scared christians = funny.:p

http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/gw.gif

Satanism,because they belive that there is no after life which is the closest to atheist.In fact,they dont even belive in Satan.They only wish to piss off christians and indulge in there lust for...anything they want.(sex,revenge,food,etc.)

I just talked to someone who is a modern satanist. apparently there are many forms of satanism as with chritianity. you need to define it before we can vote on it..

There are many different versions of satanism, i don't want to choose so just think of the first definition that comes into your head.

Satanism vs Christianity is like apples vs oranges. Xtianity has nothing to do with Satanism, except that they won't leave us (or anyone else) alone.

Satanism vs Christianity is like apples vs oranges. Xtianity has nothing to do with Satanism, except that they won't leave us (or anyone else) alone.


Wrong. Satanism is born of Christianity, as an opposition to normal christian ethics, so they are pretty much related.

Wrong. Satanism is born of Christianity, as an opposition to normal christian ethics, so they are pretty much related.
And Christianity was born of Paganism. That didn't stop the Christians from persecuting the Pagans.

Wrong. Satanism is born of Christianity, as an opposition to normal christian ethics, so they are pretty much related.

Really? Thats not the Church I joined.

Wrong. Satanism is born of Christianity, as an opposition to normal christian ethics, so they are pretty much related.I'm pretty sure the only thing of Satanism that was born from Christianity is the name.

satanism. no contest.

The mythology is a bit less extensive, but the lore is far cooler.

I've pondered this question myself many times.

Christianity offers a corrupt, evil God, but following him will lead to eternal happiness. Turning away from him will lead to eternal torment.

I always come to the same conclusion. I am ready to suffer eternal torment if it means doing what is right, that is, opposing the evil, corrupt, and selfish god. Yes, I am that noble, although I'm not sure I myself consider the ramifications of this. I am afraid that if this God were persuasive enough, I might fall and follow him only for the benefit and fear of punishment, rather than sticking to what is right.

Really? Thats not the Church I joined.

Then I don't know what church you joined then, but if you did not know that, youre not satanists.:rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

I'm pretty sure the only thing of Satanism that was born from Christianity is the name.

Wrong again...ugh:rolleyes:

The concept of "Satan" originated with Judaism and was elucidated further by Christians and Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Satan_within_Judaism.2C_Christianity.2C_Islam_and_Ayyavazhi

You people are idiots. Christians arent scared of satan. People who worship satan are just stupid and theres no point. Also theres a diference between Satanism and Heathenism. People were saying ppl are satanic for sex and drugs and etc thats Heathenism and thats not satanic at all its just unreligious in general. A) I find this very pointless. B) What the hell are you thinking even voting for sataniscism. C) if you really wanted it there should have been a 3rd option "Neither" it would mostlikly have taken alot of votes away from both. Anyway thats all

Then I don't know what church you joined then, but if you did not know that, youre not satanists.:rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

I'll see your wikistupidia and raise you a churchofsatan.com.

Wrong again...ugh:rolleyes:

The concept of "Satan" originated with Judaism and was elucidated further by Christians and Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Satan_within_Judaism.2C_Christianity.2C_Islam_and_Ayyavazhi
Pfft, I know the term satan predates Christianity, but as I'm aware the term Satanist derives from when one Christian sect used it to describe some heretical sects. As such the name was taken up by these sects as badge of honour. Such as the Ophite sect that is mentioned in the article you linked to.

edit: what I mean here is a lot of the mythology in Christianity predates the religion itself, and the term Satanist was used to unify the religion in similar beliefs. For instance, Jesus' birthday is celebrated on the same day as the late Roman pagan festival of the rebirth of the sun - Dies Natalis Solis Invicti.

I'll see your wikistupidia and raise you a churchofsatan.com.

Makes no difference to me, religion, including satanism, is the crutch of the weak minded...

None of the above!

Wrong again...ugh:rolleyes:

The concept of "Satan" originated with Judaism and was elucidated further by Christians and Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Satan_within_Judaism.2C_Christianity.2C_Islam_and_Ayyavazhi

And the archtype of Satan as the accuser and the proud outcast is the only Xtian aspect to Satanism. I suppose I coud also mention the Temple of Set, whos beliefs are founded in ancient Egyptian mythology (Psst: Ancient Egyptian beliefs pre-date Xtianity and Judaism):cool:

Makes no difference to me, religion, including satanism, is the crutch of the weak minded...

I must admire the courage it took to post this after the prior display of ignorance concerning Satanism and the unwillingness to bother to do any research.

As far as I know, only idiots 'actually' worship Satan, the rest just do it to scare the living hell out of christians. Do you know what 666 means?? neither do the Satan worshippers! They just know it scares christians!!! and scared christians = funny.:p

It descends from the idea of Satan's trinity in mockery of God and his leadership over man. Since man was created on the sixth day, it is logical to assume that Satan's own trinity is formed using the number 6, hence 666.

Also, the first monotheist is Akhenaton. Why isn't the cult of Ra still around?

Freedom of choice.

Neither.

meh I dunno. Satanism is horrible, but the irony is that christianity (in modern practice) really isn't so far from it, so how could you really pick between two evils?

meh I dunno. Satanism is horrible, but the irony is that christianity (in modern practice) really isn't so far from it, so how could you really pick between two evils?

Jesus tells you of no violence no matter what, and Satanism tells you not to harm little children.

Looks like both sides are muddied.

Satanism over Christianity.

meh I dunno. Satanism is horrible, but the irony is that christianity (in modern practice) really isn't so far from it, so how could you really pick between two evils?By interpreting them as you see fit, rather than taking other people's set guides as to what they are. I seem to remember Arianism has some interesting interpretations of Christianity, mainly that Jesus was not of god.

Well when it comes to the bible, I would Definately follow biblical satan over biblical God.

If you're going to be forced to choose, Satanism would be more fun.

Satan, because I don't even have to worship him and he's still on my side. ;)

Jesus tells you of no violence no matter what, and Satanism tells you not to harm little children.

Looks like both sides are muddied.

We also won't harm animals or those who do us no harm.

Satanism. I am agnostic, and agree with their philosophy to a large extent. If I would join a "religion" (not that fitting a term to use), that would be it. I don't feel any need to, however.

Christianity. It just took me forever to find a sect that worked the way it's supposed to. I don't like a lot of crap that you'll find nowadays. :rolleyes:

In practice or theory?:p

Satanism is cool and all, but seriously, if you're going to believe in one, how can you think the side that God banished to hell could get you any farther?

As far as I know, only idiots 'actually' worship Satan, the rest just do it to scare the living hell out of christians. Do you know what 666 means?? neither do the Satan worshippers! They just know it scares christians!!! and scared christians = funny.:p

6.66 is one hundredth of the number of the beast :p

6.66 is one hundredth of the number of the beast :p
By God you're one of them. :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!:eek:



*Takes a moment to think about situation*...

...

...

..AHHHHAHHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

By God you're one of them. :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!:eek:



*Takes a moment to think about situation*...

...

...

..AHHHHAHHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

No, I'm really not.
Didn't the poster I was replying to say that Satanists don't know what "666" is? :rolleyes:

No, I'm really not.
Deception!

Another mark of the Devil!!

Deception!

Another mark of the Devil!!

Go back and read my edit :p

I've pondered this question myself many times.

Christianity offers a corrupt, evil God, but following him will lead to eternal happiness. Turning away from him will lead to eternal torment.

I always come to the same conclusion. I am ready to suffer eternal torment if it means doing what is right, that is, opposing the evil, corrupt, and selfish god. Yes, I am that noble, although I'm not sure I myself consider the ramifications of this. I am afraid that if this God were persuasive enough, I might fall and follow him only for the benefit and fear of punishment, rather than sticking to what is right.

Where does Christianity offer a "corrupt and evil" God? And how is opposing God doing what is 'right'? In my experience, the only God I have known is one who is benevolent and good. Really, I'm just curious as to where you get your reasoning--that's a very interesting view.

Tricky. I'm not keen on Christianity but as a Socialist a lot of Satanic philosophy is anathema to my views. I'm going to have to say Christianity.

Whats the difference? wasnt satan kicked out for wanting to be just like God? I imagine heaven and hell would be identical anyway.

I'm Catholic.

Where does Christianity offer a "corrupt and evil" God? And how is opposing God doing what is 'right'? In my experience, the only God I have known is one who is benevolent and good. Really, I'm just curious as to where you get your reasoning--that's a very interesting view.

Marcionism proposed that God was corrupt and evil.

Although, thats not really a fair example. :D

Yay! I tied the scores.. hey wait a minute.. in Satanism do they actually worship Satan? Because in Christianity they worship Christ so I just figured that would be the case.. if so.. Why would anyone be Satanist? Why would anyone want to worship *according to Christianity* a fallen angel turned evil?

Meh who cares, I voted for Satanism just coz the generalised christian piss me off!.. Yes I said generalised.. So HA, You can't flame me for that.

Yay! I tied the scores.. hey wait a minute.. in Satanism do they actually worship Satan? Because in Christianity they worship Christ so I just figured that would be the case.. if so.. Why would anyone be Satanist? Why would anyone want to worship *according to Christianity* a fallen angel turned evil?

Most forms of Satanism, and the majority of self-professed Satanists, don't claim to worship Satan. Instead its more of a hedonistic, self-serving, materalist philosophy.

Satanism, no contest.

Unless Ive missed my guess, the whole thing to Satanism is
"DO WHAT THOU WILL....BUT BE COOL."

In a nutshell, that seems to be it.
However, Levayan Satanists seem to have a bit of ritual, usually for the purposes of making a good show to onlookers.
Hardly anything to it, probably, and certainly nothing being sacrified, or sodomized.

But, Having this thing with organized religions of almost every variety, im inclined to leave it alone.

The main thing I object to, is the name of it :'
"The Church of Satan"

Correct me if Im wrong, but they dont believe in Satan.
So..why the fuck would you name it like that?

To draw attention, and new recruits?
If so...your no better than your Catholic cousins...and that = Lame.

Satanism, no contest.

Unless Ive missed my guess, the whole thing to Satanism is
"DO WHAT THOU WILL....BUT BE COOL."

The very concept of 'do what thou will' was introduced by Aleister Crowley. Satanism ripped of virtually all of its philosophy, hardly anything in it is original. But yeah, that is a part of it, sorta.

Correct me if Im wrong, but they dont believe in Satan.
So..why the fuck would you name it like that?

To draw attention, and new recruits?
If so...your no better than your Catholic cousins...and that = Lame.

I think Satanists justify the name and idea by going back to the Hebrew meaning for the word 'satan', i.e. advesary. Thus, as satanists, they are suppossed to be 'satans' or 'advesaries' to the status quo, and conventional morality. Their rituals, most of which are stolen from the previous ritual magic of the Golden Dawn, Crowley, etc. are also said to be symbolic of rejectionism.

But I agree that its name seems to be used as a tool to draw in people by novelty, as in "ooh, I'm gonna go rebel and be a satanist!" A big problem I have with it, if I havn't hinted at it so far, is its lack of originality too. But I dislike Christianity probably even more.

*shrug*
What's the last time a satanist did anything worth noting in the first place?

The baying-at-the-moon contingent.
Tolerate 'em if they are quiet little boys.
Otherwise - just serve 'em an ASBO.

I picked one to spite the other.

Although really I'm a happy agnostic.

The very concept of 'do what thou will' was introduced by Aleister Crowley. Satanism ripped of virtually all of its philosophy, hardly anything in it is original. But yeah, that is a part of it, sorta.



I think Satanists justify the name and idea by going back to the Hebrew meaning for the word 'satan', i.e. advesary. Thus, as satanists, they are suppossed to be 'satans' or 'advesaries' to the status quo, and conventional morality. Their rituals, most of which are stolen from the previous ritual magic of the Golden Dawn, Crowley, etc. are also said to be symbolic of rejectionism.

But I agree that its name seems to be used as a tool to draw in people by novelty, as in "ooh, I'm gonna go rebel and be a satanist!" A big problem I have with it, if I havn't hinted at it so far, is its lack of originality too. But I dislike Christianity probably even more.


Yah, Im familiar with Crowley, and the Golden Dawn.

Personally, I cant imagine why anyone would pattern themselves, or thier religion after him.
Aside from claiming to summon demons (bullshit) the man died from an advanced case of syphallis.
Syphallis, in its advanced stages, causes madness.
Ironically its easily treatable.

But as for your disliking Christianity even more...Im with ya.

I prefer satanism. It is nice.

I heard that Satanism is about doing anything you want. Doesn't that make it not a religion? :confused:

I heard that Satanism is about doing anything you want. Doesn't that make it not a religion? :confused:

Religion is a very broad term. In its loosest meaning, we could make virtually anything a religion. And it does have a belief system and a philosophy behind it that attempts to guide some sort of self-fulfillment or spirituality, so it seems to have the hallmarks of most religions.

Religion is a very broad term. In its loosest meaning, we could make virtually anything a religion. And it does have a belief system and a philosophy behind it that attempts to guide some sort of self-fulfillment or spirituality, so it seems to have the hallmarks of most religions.


*grin* Fun, innit?

One can decide to 'hate-crime' anyone who is slightly faggy and say you did it because of your religion.
You can crash airliners into building and plead 'religion'.
Half of the folks will even defened your right to be an ass - bc you plead religion.

My answer?
Apply the same rules to every form of human behaviour:
either human behaviour is being goodie2shoes - or it is something to be repressed without delay.

It don't matter to us that you think your god or demon or whatever told you to do A or B.
That is between a body and his/her god/demon/whatever - and not between a body and society in general.

And Christianity was born of Paganism. That didn't stop the Christians from persecuting the Pagans.
Christianity born of paganism? That's funny, I always thought it had something to do with, wait... that Jesus bloke, who was Jewish, and his disciples, who were Jewish; so Christianity is kind of born of Judaism.

phwoar gimme god anyday

I recall an interview on television with a "Satanist" who described his beliefs as "indulging in the 7 sins. Uh... lust, greed, uh.. laziness and the uh... others."

I appreciate that you can't judge a religion on one person. But, frankly, I did.

I recall an interview on television with a "Satanist" who described his beliefs as "indulging in the 7 sins. Uh... lust, greed, uh.. laziness and the uh... others."

I appreciate that you can't judge a religion on one person. But, frankly, I did.

I bet he looked like a big fat slob too.

Christianity born of paganism? That's funny, I always thought it had something to do with, wait... that Jesus bloke, who was Jewish, and his disciples, who were Jewish; so Christianity is kind of born of Judaism.


Yes, and the wise men gave jesus a decorated tree, for his birthday, and some brightly colored eggs, didnt they?

Well from my limited knowledge of the basic belief system of Satanism, I can tell you it is not for me at all. Heck, even some things in Christianity bother me still. However, I'd prefer it over Satanism anyday. :)

Yes, and the wise men gave jesus a decorated tree, for his birthday, and some brightly colored eggs, didnt they?

-searches bible for this story- Oh yeah.. Thats in the Gospel of Bullshit, chapter 2, verse 1 ;)

Christianity born of paganism? That's funny, I always thought it had something to do with, wait... that Jesus bloke, who was Jewish, and his disciples, who were Jewish; so Christianity is kind of born of Judaism.

I know we've discussed this in another thread, although the response you got from the previous poster would just confirm what I've told you before.

Large parts of the Jesus myth were born from paganism. You can't find a decent history on the origins of Christianity without an in depth discussion on the pagan religions of the time and how they molded and influenced it. Just like you can't read the Church Fathers without running into an excuse for why it is just like those pesky old pagan religions every other page. Its too bad you weren't around for the "Pagan Influences in Christianity" thread that lasted a while.

Of course Judaism influenced Christianity just as much. It is based on a figure who is Jewish, Jewish setting, Jewish parables and teachings. Its just when it comes down to specific events, the plot in general, the miracles, etc. is when we find the pagan origins.

If most people prefere satanism, then thats really going to piss of the Christians.
Piss-off? No... Sadden...

If most people prefere satanism, then thats really going to piss of the Christians.Piss-off? No... Sadden...

Make baby Jesus cry.

I know we've discussed this in another thread, although the response you got from the previous poster would just confirm what I've told you before.

Large parts of the Jesus myth were born from paganism. You can't find a decent history on the origins of Christianity without an in depth discussion on the pagan religions of the time and how they molded and influenced it. Just like you can't read the Church Fathers without running into an excuse for why it is just like those pesky old pagan religions every other page. Its too bad you weren't around for the "Pagan Influences in Christianity" thread that lasted a while.

Of course Judaism influenced Christianity just as much. It is based on a figure who is Jewish, Jewish setting, Jewish parables and teachings. Its just when it comes down to specific events, the plot in general, the miracles, etc. is when we find the pagan origins.
For once we agree. :D They both come from the same source.

But I would argue further: Egyptians, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Mayan, Chinese, Hindus... They seem to have borrowed from the same source... They all adored the serpent and the bird; Pagan myths that every civilisation merged with its own customs and cultures... Always the same symbols.

But religion is not organised religion; they are very different things...

Make baby Jesus cry.
Listen to the sound of your contempt... the voice of a world without spirituality, without kindness, without a word of friendship. What you do to me today, someone else will do to you tomorrow.

Congratulations, you've just made planet Earth a bit worse than a few minutes ago.

Yes, and the wise men gave jesus a decorated tree, for his birthday, and some brightly colored eggs, didnt they?

That's a tradition absorbed into Christian practice, as with most of the ritual to be honest. They're fun, nothing more.

The core tenets of the religion are Jewish in origin, taught by a jew, spread by jews.

All religion ultimately comes from the same source... the same impulse of trying to define what this reality really is, why were here, etc. So it goes without saying that all religions bear a strong similarity to each other. One world, One reality, One religion. It's only in the semantics and the dogma that we all disagree

All religion ultimately comes from the same source... the same impulse of trying to define what this reality really is, why were here, etc. So it goes without saying that all religions bear a strong similarity to each other. One world, One reality, One religion. It's only in the semantics and the dogma that we all disagree
I am not alone...

That's a tradition absorbed into Christian practice, as with most of the ritual to be honest. They're fun, nothing more.

The core tenets of the religion are Jewish in origin, taught by a jew, spread by jews.

This is what Christianity in general would have you believe, but this isn't the objective or historical picture.

And, I'll tell you right now, the core tenants of Christianity are not found within Judaism, nor have they ever been found within any part of Judaism. Much of what the Jesus character practiced is in direct violation of Jewish law (i.e. sinful, yeah, he was a sinner), and was instead taken from pagan ritual. The only things in the Jesus myth from Judaism are his parables and teachings, and those were borrowed word for word from Jewish sources. In essence, it was a pagan myth woven around a Jewish frame.

Nor was it "spread by Jews." The earliest Christians we know of may have been Jews, but the problem here is the failure to recognize between traditional practitioners of Judaism and Hellenized Jews who practiced paganism. Early Jewish Christians were the latter. And even then, they lasted for about 30 years in Jewish history before Goyim became the dominant force and the main ones who spread Christianity. It stopped being Jewish in any sense very quickly.

Although i argue many of it's beliefs, I have reverted to my original Methodist ways.

Makes no difference to me, religion, including satanism, is the crutch of the weak minded...

Satanism is a religoin, it is wanking for the ego.

Satanism is a religoin, it is wanking for the ego.
Self development is useless if we're not willing to sacrifice our ego to bond with others. Satanism is self-improvement. True Christianism takes the improved self a step further to bond two improved selfs into one. This is its goal of course, the practice is not so easy...

Potatoes or spuds?

And Christianity was born of Paganism. That didn't stop the Christians from persecuting the Pagans.


Wrong Christianity is following the teachings of Jesus Christ in your everyday life ... Period.

Wrong Christianity is following the teachings of Jesus Christ in your everyday life ... Period.

The Jesus character was based on previous pagan myths. So while Christianity may be following the teachings of this mythological figure, it doesn't make Jesus and Christianity any less based on paganism.

Of course, this isn't what Christianity teaches as canon or what Christians believe. Its pretty hard to believe in Jesus and accept the history of the Christian religion at the same time. Its just the historical fact of the situation.

I know we've discussed this in another thread, although the response you got from the previous poster would just confirm what I've told you before.

Large parts of the Jesus myth were born from paganism. You can't find a decent history on the origins of Christianity without an in depth discussion on the pagan religions of the time and how they molded and influenced it. Just like you can't read the Church Fathers without running into an excuse for why it is just like those pesky old pagan religions every other page. Its too bad you weren't around for the "Pagan Influences in Christianity" thread that lasted a while.

Of course Judaism influenced Christianity just as much. It is based on a figure who is Jewish, Jewish setting, Jewish parables and teachings. Its just when it comes down to specific events, the plot in general, the miracles, etc. is when we find the pagan origins.
Thanks... as you know, I'm not all that well informed. But I do know that New Testament theology is based on Judaism, inasmuch as, whenever one of the New Testament writers seeks to back up an argument, he quotes the Tanakh. What specific pagan elements are there in Christianity, that is, in the New Testament?

Wrong Christianity is following the teachings of Jesus Christ in your everyday life ... Period.
How does that work? :confused: :D

I have pretty much the opposite view... Love your friends and family, be kind to strangers, share, etc. Just the kind of stuff I need for my everyday life.

The Jesus character was based on previous pagan myths. So while Christianity may be following the teachings of this mythological figure, it doesn't make Jesus and Christianity any less based on paganism.

Of course, this isn't what Christianity teaches as canon or what Christians believe. Its pretty hard to believe in Jesus and accept the history of the Christian religion at the same time. Its just the historical fact of the situation.

Wrong ... Jesus is not a mythological character ... you just wish he was.

All religion ultimately comes from the same source... the same impulse of trying to define what this reality really is, why were here, etc. So it goes without saying that all religions bear a strong similarity to each other. One world, One reality, One religion. It's only in the semantics and the dogma that we all disagree
And what is there to religions except for semantics and dogma? Isn't religion pretty much defined by semantics and dogma? Surely the world's religions can't be one and the same, because they violently disagree with each other. For example, in Christianity Jesus is God in the flesh; in Islam he is a prophet, but no more. To both religions, the other's position is blasphemy.

Wrong Christianity is following the teachings of Jesus Christ in your everyday life ... Period.
And what's the point of Christianity if you're not following the teachings of Christ?

Thanks... as you know, I'm not all that well informed. But I do know that New Testament theology is based on Judaism, inasmuch as, whenever one of the New Testament writers seeks to back up an argument, he quotes the Tanakh. What specific pagan elements are there in Christianity, that is, in the New Testament?
The snake and the bird (dove), The Kingdom of Light, The tree of Life are a few; they are like the stepping stones of all major religions on earth. One or another may have been lost (the Buddhists and the snake), as dogmas evolved, but all religions have the snake or the bird. It's amazing...

Wrong ... Jesus is not a mythological character ... you just wish he was.
Like someone else said here "every myth has a grain of truth". Myth = Ancient History which was more like storytelling... Using symbols, to captivate the attention and memory of the listener...

Thanks... as you know, I'm not all that well informed. But I do know that New Testament theology is based on Judaism, inasmuch as, whenever one of the New Testament writers seeks to back up an argument, he quotes the Tanakh. What specific pagan elements are there in Christianity, that is, in the New Testament?

Well yes, thats true. When there are disputes between the characters in the Gospels, they refer back to the Tanach. And of course the Epistles do. The Epistles in general seem to be a more solely Christian theology, whereas the Gospels tend to reflect the origins of the myth more.

But, pagan elements in the Gospels would include references to pagan religion and philosophy. Such as when Jesus states, "Many are called, few are chosen." This actually occured first in Plato's Phaedo, and was a Dionysaic motto, that many are called to be Bacchaoi (disciples of Bacchus/Dionysus) but few actually carry the wand of Bacchus. In a similar vein, when Jesus states in Luke as he is being persecuted, "Forgive them, they know not what they do" this is identical to what Dionysus said in Euripides' The Bacchae when he was being persecuted by the king there. Those are just two of the more striking examples, because they quote word for word from pagan texts.

Jesus driving the demons into the pigs is another good example of borrowing from a pagan religion, as this outlines the Eleusinian rites quite well. Initiates would take the piglets, drive their demons into them, and then run the piglets off a cliff into the ocean. There are lots of things like this in the Gospels, some that sound almost identical and some that are vague and only hint at borrowing.

But the pigs also bring up another interesting question. If Jesus was suppossed to be walking around in a Jewish community, they wouldn't have any pigs, as pigs are unkosher and weren't kept or herded. Even touching them was unkosher. So, the idea of Jesus wandering around in a Jewish community of pig herders doesn't fit the cultural context well, and would lead us to conclude that its probably a mistake the Gospel authors didn't take into account when borrowing from the Eleusinian ritual for the story.

Wrong ... Jesus is not a mythological character ... you just wish he was.

Well, I can't really argue with a Christian over if his god is real or not. Thats like arguing if Krishna or Vishnu is real. What I can tell you is that in history we use two dichotomic terms when referring to Jesus and the myth surrounding him - the Jesus of faith, and the historical Jesus. The former term refers to Jesus as the Gospels portray him, and the latter refers to the source of the Gospel myth. Thus, the 'historical Jesus' could have been Jesus as a man, or multiple people the 'Jesus of faith' was based on, or just written out of thin air, but the two are not the same. The Jesus you believe in, depicted in the Gospels, is not recognized as a historical figure and does not have any historical merit.

Self development is useless if we're not willing to sacrifice our ego to bond with others. Satanism is self-improvement. True Christianism takes the improved self a step further to bond two improved selfs into one. This is its goal of course, the practice is not so easy...


Hahah self improvbment did you say? Self indulgances yes, improvement where? Point me out one, just one Satanist that has improved him/herself, I dare ya!

Nope Satanism is just wanking for the ego, nothing more, nothing less. It is there to make little egos feel a bit better about them selves for just a little while, ohhh yeah and not forgetting all of this at the expense of somebody else, coz ya can't feel big without makeing somebody else feel little.

Hahah self improvbment did you say? Self indulgances yes, improvement where? Point me out one, just one Satanist that has improved him/herself, I dare ya!

Nope Satanism is just wanking for the ego, nothing more, nothing less. It is there to make little egos feel a bit better about them selves for just a little while, ohhh yeah and not forgetting all of this at the expense of somebody else, coz ya can't feel big without makeing somebody else feel little.
Self-Improvement is the goal. As I said, the practice is much more difficult. An illusion that we can improve as individuals without working hard on our relationships with any stranger, not just a select few. This is the toughest job of all and should be the ultimate goal of all. Be more than individual, be one with everybody.

You can't really argue with a Christian over if his god is real or not because he is.

You can't really argue with a Christian over if his god is real or not because he is.

As tempted as I am to put some cutsie response in bold, I'll refrain.

I don't want to turn it into a "my god is real, neener neener" or "my god can beat up your god" forum. :D

Self-Improvement is the goal. As I said, the practice is much more difficult. An illusion that we can improve as individuals without working hard on our relationships with any stranger, not just a select few. This is the toughest job of all and should be the ultimate goal of all. Be more than individual, be one with everybody.

Yeah sure, cheers for replying but you failed to take up my challenge, show me just one Satanist that has bettered themselves then?

Yeah sure, cheers for replying but you failed to take up my challenge, show me just one Satanist that has bettered themselves then?

*laughs*
Show me a satanist who has ever done anything notable at all.

Yeah sure, cheers for replying but you failed to take up my challenge, show me just one Satanist that has bettered themselves then?
I don't know any Satanists, just hear about their goals... I think their goals only go a third of way. However, they may disagree... :headbang: :D

And what is there to religions except for semantics and dogma? Isn't religion pretty much defined by semantics and dogma? Surely the world's religions can't be one and the same, because they violently disagree with each other. For example, in Christianity Jesus is God in the flesh; in Islam he is a prophet, but no more. To both religions, the other's position is blasphemy.
Religion without dogma is trying to get a laugh out of a stranger.

I don't know any Satanists, just hear about their goals... I think they only go a third of way. However, some may disagree... :headbang: :D


Ohhh so you speak not from a position of knowledge, then I excempt you from my challange. I know loads of them, and not a single one of them could by any stretch of the imagination be called a decent human being. As for their goals it is very simple, do what the hell you want, don't give a monkeys about anybody else unless they are fellow Satanists, even then be warned that they may be plotting agaisnt you so stand ready to take them down at any instance.

You know what they think like above, they even sound like it. A more idiotic, childish, paroniond group I have never met.

Come on people, we can't let the fundies win. Vote Satanism :)

Come on people, we can't let the fundies win. Vote Satanism :)

Maybe if i give people a BUMP on the head to remind them of their goal.

*laughs*
Show me a satanist who has ever done anything notable at all.

Well, uh, some have made some advances in black metal music. Hmm, that isn't notable at all, is it? Oh well, crappy music and lack of achievements doesn't refute a religion.

Ohhh so you speak not from a position of knowledge, then I excempt you from my challange. I know loads of them, and not a single one of them could by any stretch of the imagination be called a decent human being. As for their goals it is very simple, do what the hell you want, don't give a monkeys about anybody else unless they are fellow Satanists, even then be warned that they may be plotting agaisnt you so stand ready to take them down at any instance.

You know what they think like above, they even sound like it. A more idiotic, childish, paroniond group I have never met.
After this, if I see one I will run... :D

I'd choose Satanism. Here's why.

1) I'm not big on "turning the other cheek"
2) Loving those who deserve love and hating those that deserve hate seems logical.
3) Satanism is an atheist religion. I'm an atheist.
4) Satanism doesn't seek to regulate every aspect of your life. It's up to the individual.
5) Less assholery is associated with Satanism. There are no Satanic Fred Phelps clones.

As tempted as I am to put some cutsie response in bold, I'll refrain.

I don't want to turn it into a "my god is real, neener neener" or "my god can beat up your god" forum. :D


Seems to me you already have

I must admire the courage it took to post this after the prior display of ignorance concerning Satanism and the unwillingness to bother to do any research.

My post was based on CHRISTIAN aspects and beliefs, not the made up, freely associated ones satanists use predating christianity. :rolleyes: Maybe YOU should do some research... In any case, I stand by my point, that religion, including satanism, is for the weak.

boy, tough call:

one is a first-class ticket to hell

the other a first-class ticket to heaven

My post was based on CHRISTIAN aspects and beliefs, not the made up, freely associated ones satanists use predating christianity. :rolleyes: Maybe YOU should do some research... In any case, I stand by my point, that religion, including satanism, is for the weak.

I hear this line of reasoning quite offten, I would ask weak what?

Religion is for the weak what, mind, body, what? Explain yourself then.

boy, tough call:

one is a first-class ticket to hell

the other a first-class ticket to heaven

Which one is which again?

I'll pick Christianity, because every Satanist I know is a total douchebag.

And anyways, Christianity is an easy faith to follow. "I LOVE JESUS!!!" There. That's all the worship I need to do this week.

The difference between christianity and Satanism Is that although both are man-made religions (all religions are man-made), Satanists don't go around pretending that our beleifs are the word of god.