NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060602/toronto_arrests_060602/20060602?hub=TopStories

WRONG.

Good thing the RCMP was alert enough to stop this one.

In a sweeping raid, police arrested about a dozen men in the Toronto area on terrorism-related charges Friday night, the RCMP announced.

Intelligence sources allege the men were part of a terrorist cell, close to carrying out attacks on one or more Canadian targets.

Police seized chemicals used to make explosives and weapons.

"That's the tool of choice for anybody who wants to cause damage," a source who asked not to be named told The Canadian Press.

The suspects are either second-generation Canadians or recently immigrated to Canada with their families.

Sources claimed the men have no connection to al Qaeda, but were allegedly inspired by militant Islamic groups.

The arrests were made in co-operation with the Integrated National Security Enforcement Team, Cpl. Michele Paradis, a spokeswoman for the RCMP said in a release.

The operation involved at least four police forces, CSIS and the RCMP.

Undercover officers made the arrests, which were all carried out in the Greater Toronto Area.

"The investigation is ongoing," Paradis said Friday night.

It also looks like you have to suspect Canadian-born Moslems.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060602/toronto_arrests_060602/20060602?hub=TopStories

WRONG.

Good thing the RCMP was alert enough to stop this one.



It also looks like you have to suspect Canadian-born Moslems.

Looks like we've got another border to secure...

The police are suggesting that they had a really big bomb. Three times the ammonia nitrate (three tons) that was used in the Oklahoma bombing.

When I heard about mounties arresting terrorists I had this image of the terrorists gently assemble a nuclear bomb when hooves suddenly smash through the window.

CSIS rules, CIA drools!

When I heard about mounties arresting terrorists I had this image of the terrorists gently assemble a nuclear bomb when hooves suddenly smash through the window.

Don't forget those dandy wide brim hats, and bright red tunics...

Canada made itself a target when we involved ourselves in Afghanistan. The notion that any Canadian thinks that we are not a target given our current commitments is a pretty dumb thing to use as your initial proposition.

Canada made itself a target when we involved ourselves in Afghanistan. The notion that any Canadian thinks that we are not a target given our current commitments is a pretty dumb thing to use as your initial proposition.

The idea that terrorists would attack Canada has been raised by non-Canadians on this forum, and dismissed by some Canadians on this forum as a ridiculous idea.

Canada made itself a target when we involved ourselves in Afghanistan. The notion that any Canadian thinks that we are not a target given our current commitments is a pretty dumb thing to use as your initial proposition.
And for the extended stay, we can blame Harper for that.

CSIS rules, CIA drools!
N00b.

More news of Canadians on the ball...

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149285034044&call_pageid=976163513378&col=96904886374

Canada made itself a target when we involved ourselves in Afghanistan. The notion that any Canadian thinks that we are not a target given our current commitments is a pretty dumb thing to use as your initial proposition.

I’m not to sure about that, I’ve been reading NSG long enough pick up an “Canada is impervious to terrorists” attitude coming from a few Canadians posters. I cant think of one particular instance on NSG, but I’m sure I’ve sensed this sentiment before.

Canada made itself a target when we involved ourselves in Afghanistan. The notion that any Canadian thinks that we are not a target given our current commitments is a pretty dumb thing to use as your initial proposition.
Surely even Canada has some idiots?

I’m not to sure about that, I’ve been reading NSG long enough pick up an “Canada is impervious to terrorists” attitude coming from a few Canadians posters. I cant think of one particular instance on NSG, but I’m sure I’ve sensed this sentiment before.

The usual flavor on NS is that "the US is asking for all this abuse, but look at good ol' Canada and how well it behaves - terrorists won't be attacking Canada".

More news of Canadians on the ball...

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149285034044&call_pageid=976163513378&col=96904886374

When the Canadians do it it's being "on the ball," but when the CIA does it's a breach of privacy...

Al-queda's top ten list of targets

1. Christians
2. Jews especially Israeli ones
3. People from the US
4. People from Europe
5. People from Canada
6. People from Kenya
7. people from Bali
8. Muslims who dont follow al-queda's twisted and corrupt version of islam
9. Infidels who dont follow al-queda's twisted and corrupt version of islam
10. everyone else basically

Dont think for one minute that being tolerant and liberal in belief will get you off the hook, you should be following their version of Islam... and if you are following their version of islam and get killed by them (innocent by-stander) then that's the will of Allah and just gets you to heaven quicker.

The usual flavor on NS is that "the US is asking for all this abuse, but look at good ol' Canada and how well it behaves - terrorists won't be attacking Canada".

Provided our (Canada’s) world position, that notion, though naive, is understandable, we don’t get much notoriety as world military players.

When the Canadians do it it's being "on the ball," but when the CIA does it's a breach of privacy...

Welcome to political correctness. :(

Welcome to political correctness. :(

I was thinking "Anti-Americanism," but political correctness works too.

Unfortunately, Canada is not immune to terrorism much like any other developed, democratic, Western country. Tis sad really. Hopefully the government does its job in protecting the country and protecting its citizens.

When the Canadians do it it's being "on the ball," but when the CIA does it's a breach of privacy...

But notice how these guys are being charged opposed to being sent away without legal recourse.

But notice how these guys are being charged opposed to being sent away without legal recourse.

I was talking about the article which mentioned "Internet Monitoring," something which the CIA has been criticized for.

Al-queda's top ten list of targets

1. Christians
2. Jews especially Israeli ones
3. People from the US
4. People from Europe
5. People from Canada
6. People from Kenya
7. people from Bali
8. Muslims who dont follow al-queda's twisted and corrupt version of islam
9. Infidels who dont follow al-queda's twisted and corrupt version of islam
10. everyone else basically

Dont think for one minute that being tolerant and liberal in belief will get you off the hook, you should be following their version of Islam... and if you are following their version of islam and get killed by them (innocent by-stander) then that's the will of Allah and just gets you to heaven quicker.

Where does this top 10 list come from?

I was talking about the article which mentioned "Internet Monitoring," something which the CIA has been criticized for.

I though the CIA (or NSA?) was getting bitched at for unlawful (or legal grey area) wire tapping. I’ve never heard complaints about the feds keeping an eye on Islamic extremists sites (like the Canadians were). Can you cite?

Oh and my comment was suggesting that Americans may be more comfortable with closer police intervention, if they had stronger legal guarantees, like not be held up without charge or subject to shady wire taps.

Where does this top 10 list come from?
I think, based on number 10 being 'everyone else basically', we can safely assume that it's just been made up. :)

Where does this top 10 list come from?

His arsehole, same as pretty much anything on this forum. :)

Surely even Canada has some idiots?

Yep. And it seems that we elect them to office just as others do.

However given that Osama directly mentioned Canada by name as a target when we first joined into the invasion of Afghanistan, any Canadian who thinks otherwise is clearly not paying much attention.

I was talking about the article which mentioned "Internet Monitoring," something which the CIA has been criticized for.

First off, it's the NSA doing the bulk of the montering. And second, it's the blanket suctioning of data that is what people object to, and also the targetted monitering without going through proper channels to obtain a warrant.

There is no statement in that article that suggests that the security services in Canada had not obtained legal backing for their monitoring of specific websites.

Hum… I wonder if Harper will try to use this event to institute shitty new security policy, but even if he tries, I doubt he’ll be able do anything with it.

First off, it's the NSA doing the bulk of the montering. And second, it's the blanket suctioning of data that is what people object to, and also the targetted monitering without going through proper channels to obtain a warrant.

There is no statement in that article that suggests that the security services in Canada had not obtained legal backing for their monitoring of specific websites.

It looks like the initial monitoring of specific websites was being done by individual Canadians - not the police or security services.

There's nothing illegal about monitoring done by civilians.

Google, for example, does a blanket suctioning of websites and forum content. They have no warrant, and they data mine the results to target advertisement content. Of course, if the Chinese government wants to use the Google tools to data mine the Internet to spy on internal dissidents, who's to stop them?

When the Canadians do it it's being "on the ball," but when the CIA does it's a breach of privacy...
Actually, they did it without breaching privacy.

So there.

I was talking about the article which mentioned "Internet Monitoring," something which the CIA has been criticized for.
No. The CIA (rather the NSA) has been criticised for monitoring without warrants (ie. illegally). Where does it say the Canucks did it without a warrant?

Nice try at self-flagellation, though. That hair-shirt must get awful itchy.

Also, I love how negative the title of this thread is. Instead of saying "Canadians prevent terrorist attack" you spin it in such a way that acts like we were attacked or it was averted at the very last second or something. Geez, can't you be happy for another country that stops a terrorist attack on its populace or must you always be so damn negative and give a "so there" to people you disagree with?

It also looks like you have to suspect Canadian-born Moslems.

nah...just those from...an unmentionable country...I am sure u will get the reference...I can see atleast 7 names from that place. Plus a recent convert (Vikas Chand) of Indian origin.

A list of the adults arrested and charged with offences under the Criminal Code of Canada. Five youths, who cannot be named, were also charged:

1. Fahim Ahmad, 21, Toronto;

2. Zakaria Amara, 20, Mississauga, Ont.;

3. Asad Ansari, 21, Mississauga;

4. Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, Mississauga;

5. Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, Mississauga;

6. Mohammed Dirie, 22, Kingston, Ont.;

7. Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, Kingston;

8. Jahmaal James, 23, Toronto;

9. Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, Toronto;

10. Steven Vikash Chand alias Abdul Shakur, 25, Toronto;

11. Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21, Mississauga;

12. Saad Khalid, 19, Mississauga.

CSIS rules, CIA drools!

Oh Please:rolleyes:

Hooray for the canadians.

To all those who think that Canada is a target because of its involvement, that's just silly. Look at Spain. The terrorists don't care how much you 'appease' them. You'd think the lesson of Neville Chamberlain would be learned by now.

To all those who think that Canada is a target because of its involvement, that's just silly. Look at Spain. The terrorists don't care how much you 'appease' them. You'd think the lesson of Neville Chamberlain would be learned by now.

Spain was involved in Iraq. Not that they wouldn’t do it anyways.

Al-queda's top ten list of targets

[Top Ten list snipped for brevity]

Dont think for one minute that being tolerant and liberal in belief will get you off the hook, you should be following their version of Islam... and if you are following their version of islam and get killed by them (innocent by-stander) then that's the will of Allah and just gets you to heaven quicker.

Frankly, that's bullshit. "Terrorists" can use the power of myth to get those "expendables" to rally to their cause, but Osama and the higher cronieship of Al Qaeda are probably more politically motivated than otherwise. They even had some credibility in their political misgivings about the United States before they started attacking undefended civilian targets. Frankly, they still do, but now that they've gone and killed thousands of undefended, innocent people across now three Western nations, they've all but crushed their chances at anyone listening to their political sentiments.

To all those who think that Canada is a target because of its involvement, that's just silly. Look at Spain. The terrorists don't care how much you 'appease' them. You'd think the lesson of Neville Chamberlain would be learned by now.

Spain was one of the three countries (Spain, Britain, the Azores) that supported the US-led invasion of Iraq right from the beginning.

Uh-oh! There are a couple muslims attending my high school. Hold on for a minute while I get the Napalm.

Uh-oh! There are a couple muslims attending my high school. Hold on for a minute while I get the Napalm.


Why use napalm ?

But notice how these guys are being charged opposed to being sent away without legal recourse.


Just like all the terrorist caught in the US ....its great that you are following our lead on that .

Maybe when you try them it will be on TV just like it is here .

In fact maybe when you are done with them they can come visit our captured terrorist in Federal prisons ..be like a family reunion..:D

Why use napalm ?

I like that word, that's why.

They seized 'chemicals to make explosives' did they? So didn't actually seize any actual explosives? It's just that quite a lot of people have all the chemicals needed to make explosives in their own homes.

“This group took steps to acquire three tons of ammonium nitrate and other components necessary to create explosive devices,” said assistant Royal Canadian Mounted Police commissioner Mike McDonell.'took steps'? What's that mean? They went to the garden centre to buy some fertiliser?

I'd like to have more evidence that these guys were really intending to carry out a terrorist attack before I praise the Mounties for their efforts.

And seriously what is the volume of 3 tonnes of Ammonium nitrate? I think we're talking about a van packed full of the stuff.

To all those who think that Canada is a target because of its involvement, that's just silly. Look at Spain. The terrorists don't care how much you 'appease' them. You'd think the lesson of Neville Chamberlain would be learned by now.

Right. Because Al Qaeda has a history of targetting countries that have no involvement with affairs that they deem to relate to them. I mean, who can forget all of their attacks on South American countries?

Or maybe, just maybe, there might be some correlation to a statement by Bin Laden after the invasion of Afghanistan? (http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/11/12/binladen.statement/)


"So why are your governments allying themselves with America in attacking us in Afghanistan, especially to mention Britain, France, Italy, Canada, Germany and Australia?"

The speaker refers to the killings of Germans in Tunisia and French in Pakistan in the past year and to the bombing of a French tanker off Yemen, the killings of a U.S. Marine in Kuwait and the seizure of a Moscow theater by Chechen rebels.


Now, your fatuous comparison to Chaimberlain would have some vague shred of reality if Canada had disengaged in Afghanistan in response to that threat. But we haven't. No, in fact we are in command of Nato forces in Afghanistan with a sizeable deployment in the volatile Khandahar region. We just didn't engage in the dumb-assed, ill planned, and self-defeating invasion of Iraq because we actually thought that Bin Laden WAS the primary target. A side issue - not the main issue - in relation to the attempt to purge Al Qaeda from the world.


So stick your attempt to call Canada a country of appeasers when it comes to Al Qaeda up your tuckus.

^ If anything, it is the US that is appeasing by not going after OBL+Taliban forcefully.:cool:

^ If anything, it is the US that is appeasing by not going after OBL+Taliban forcefully.:cool:

That, combined with starting a War on another front before the whole Taliban/OBL situation was stabilized, thereby splitting our attention and stirring up more anti-US sentiment, will go down in history as one of the classic blunders (the most famous being: Never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only slightly less well known is this...never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.)

Frankly, that's bullshit. "Terrorists" can use the power of myth to get those "expendables" to rally to their cause, but Osama and the higher cronieship of Al Qaeda are probably more politically motivated than otherwise. They even had some credibility in their political misgivings about the United States before they started attacking undefended civilian targets. Frankly, they still do, but now that they've gone and killed thousands of undefended, innocent people across now three Western nations, they've all but crushed their chances at anyone listening to their political sentiments.

Spain was one of the three countries (Spain, Britain, the Azores) that supported the US-led invasion of Iraq right from the beginning.

Okay, here's a list of nations that have been the victims of Islamic terrorist attacks in recent years, please explain to me what each one of them did to merit the attack:

Indonesia,
Algeria,
Morocco,
Jordan,
Egypt,
Turkey,
Saudi Arabia,
Yemen,
The Philippines.

Don't confuse the blowing up of buses full of children with a rational rejection of US foreign policy. They hate what we are, not what we do.

Yep. And it seems that we elect them to office just as others do.

However given that Osama directly mentioned Canada by name as a target when we first joined into the invasion of Afghanistan, any Canadian who thinks otherwise is clearly not paying much attention.

For once....

I agree with Silliopolous.

^ If anything, it is the US that is appeasing by not going after OBL+Taliban forcefully.:cool:

Last I heard, we still have troops in Afghanistan hunting this lout though I have a feeling he isn't there.

Okay, here's a list of nations that have been the victims of Islamic terrorist attacks in recent years, please explain to me what each one of them did to merit the attack:

Indonesia,
Algeria,
Morocco,
Jordan,
Egypt,
Turkey,
Saudi Arabia,
Yemen,
The Philippines.

Don't confuse the blowing up of buses full of children with a rational rejection of US foreign policy. They hate what we are, not what we do.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I am glad that the RCMP stopped this attempt at an attack in their nation.

I believe many of us have said that terrorists are less likely to attack a target in Canada than in the United States. For one reason, there are better targets in the United States. Interestingly enough, the fact that the alleged terrorists were organizing in Canada does not perclude the possibility that they were going to launch their attack in the United States. Border security between the two countries is still fairly lax and the alleged terrorists might have reasoned that it would be easier for them to get materials in Canada because the Canadian authorities have not curtailed as many civil liberties to fight terrorism. Evidently, they were wrong.

This isn't to say I don't believe that an attack on Canada is possible. It certainly is, in my opinion. I'm just speculating that while the terrorists hate us, if they got the chance to fry a bigger fish they would probably go for it. Of course, that would suggest they followed logic...

Okay, here's a list of nations that have been the victims of Islamic terrorist attacks in recent years, please explain to me what each one of them did to merit the attack:

Merit, no. But there are explanations to the attacks.

Indonesia,
Algeria,
Morocco,

Oh, regional politics coupled with areas that want to gain independance. (Morocco has the West-African issue, IIRC, Indonesia has many regions that want to break free, and see East-Timor as a rolemodel, and Algeria has never been stable.)

Jordan,

Internal crackdowns, big US ally.

Egypt,

Political dissidents.

Turkey,

The Kurdish issue, US ally, NATO member.

Saudi Arabia,
Yemen,
The Philippines.

A mix of political dissidents, "freedom fighters," and US support, jumbled with religious persecution.

All in all, many mostly internal factors that have led to attacks.

Just like all the terrorist caught in the US ....its great that you are following our lead on that .

Maybe when you try them it will be on TV just like it is here .

In fact maybe when you are done with them they can come visit our captured terrorist in Federal prisons ..be like a family reunion..:D

Its not like you've haven’t had problems on this front...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_(alleged_terrorist)

But perhaps I overblew the problem, nonetheless the government has been fighting for that ability.

Last I heard, we still have troops in Afghanistan hunting this lout though I have a feeling he isn't there.

Last I heard, Osama, Zawahiri, Mullah Omar and other top leaders of AQ and taliban are still alive and are arguably going to be in the foreseeable future, thanks to the appeasement of Musharraf regime.

Regime change in USA and Pakistan anyone? :cool:

http://static.flickr.com/51/159020097_49c070eeac_o.gif

Added later: the ref links

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,,1784304,00.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/19/wafg19.xml
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C05%5C23%5Cstory_23-5-2006_pg3_1
http://www.dawn.com/2006/05/20/top11.htm
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=16084
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5040840.stm

Last I heard, we still have troops in Afghanistan hunting this lout though I have a feeling he isn't there.

To make another point,

Yes, he is not there, because you allowed him to flee, you allowed taliban to escape (Kunduz airlift), you allowed taliban to recuperate, your al-lie Pakistan is getting half a BILLION worth arms free ostensibly to catch Osama, Zawahiri, Mullah Omar et al :rolleyes: , although they all camp like 100 miles from the GHQ Rawalpindi of the half a milliom man Pakistan army

Pak army
-26 x Bell 412EP utility helicopters [$230m US financed lease. Deliveries JUN 2004-05. Textron.]
-3330 x Falcon II infantry & vehicle tactical radio systems [$68m US financed sale, FEB 2005. Harris]

INTERIOR MINISTRY
- 10 x Bell Huey II utility helicopters [grant aid from State Dept. for Afghan border surveillance]

Pak Airforce
-6 x C-130E transport aircraft [$64m US financed sale, SEP 2004. Lockheed-Martin.]
-6 x AN/TPS-77 mobile air surveillance radars [$89m US financed sale, OCT 2005. Lockheed-Martin]
-300 x AIM-9M Sidewinder within-visual-range air-to-air missiles [$29.4m US financed sale, OCT 2005. Raytheon]
-2 x F-16A Falcon fighter aircraft [Excess Defense Articles grant delivered JAN 2006]
-19 x T-37B intermediate jet trainers [Excess Defense Articles grant, 2003?]

Pak Navy
- depot maintenance for 2 x P-3Cs in Pakistan [$11m, JAN 2005. Lockheed-Martin]
- 8 x P-3C maritime surveillance aircraft [Excess Defense Articles grant.]
depot maintenance for 7 x gifted P-3Cs [$20.9m US financed sale, FEB 2006. Lockheed-Martin]
- training program for P-3C air & ground crews [$30.3m US financed sale. NOV 2005. LSI/DynCorp]
-50 [40 air-launched + 10 surface launched] x Harpoon Tactical Block II anti-ship missiles [$61.7m US financed sale, NOV 2005. McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing

And to make another point, it has been documented that American supplied arms are being used to kill non-combatants by the Pak army as retaliation to the ongoing freedom struggle of the Balochis in Balochistan....

yeah yeah...go on...spout the democracy rhetoric.......it might still work with gullible fools who don't follow no news outside FOX...not me..:cool:

Merit, no. But there are explanations to the attacks.



Oh, regional politics coupled with areas that want to gain independance. (Morocco has the West-African issue, IIRC, Indonesia has many regions that want to break free, and see East-Timor as a rolemodel, and Algeria has never been stable.)



Internal crackdowns, big US ally.



Political dissidents.



The Kurdish issue, US ally, NATO member.



A mix of political dissidents, "freedom fighters," and US support, jumbled with religious persecution.

All in all, many mostly internal factors that have led to attacks.

Don't kid yourself these brutal slaughterers are not "gallant freedom fighters" or "oppressed dissidents".

The Bali bombings were conducted by a group called Jeremiah Islamiah who are widely thought to want to overthrow governments in the region and replace them with a pan-South East Asian Islamic state.

The Egyptian bombings were conducted by a terrorist group called Al Tawhid Wal Jihad established by a young dentist, Khaled Mosaed. He believes that all states that fail to implement Islamic law are legitimate targets.

The Jordan bombings in the capital of Amman are suspected to be the work of Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi and inspired by the ideology of global jihad. In particular extremists despise its peace treaty with Israel and its secular king.

You think that these people will be willing to leave peaceably alongside a secular liberal democratic system that values personal freedoms and the rule of law over theocratic tyranny, a fusion of church and state and sharia law? What is it about these people that you just don't get???

I have no doubt whatsoever, that whatever the nature of the atrocity, wherever its location, you will draw some tedious causal factor for which we are to blame. To argue in effect that these evil fanatics, these killers of women and children, these nihilistic haters of humanity wouldn't be the way they are if only we weren't quite so mean to them.

Perhaps if we cut all our ties to the Islamic world: economic, diplomatic and social, perhaps if we never talked about human rights, secularism or democracy, perhaps if we never breathed a word of criticism of Islam or talked about the threat posed by states like Iran, perhaps if we withdrew all our security forces (there at the request of their respective governments) from the Middle East, and perhaps if we wept uncontrollably and begged forgiveness for our crimes against humanity and our crimes against God, perhaps then, just perhaps, some of these people might just leave us alone.

I for one do not wish to feed the monster until it's big enough to swallow us.

ISLAM!

Fixed your simplism for you.

They seized 'chemicals to make explosives' did they? So didn't actually seize any actual explosives? It's just that quite a lot of people have all the chemicals needed to make explosives in their own homes.

'took steps'? What's that mean? They went to the garden centre to buy some fertiliser?

I'd like to have more evidence that these guys were really intending to carry out a terrorist attack before I praise the Mounties for their efforts.

And seriously what is the volume of 3 tonnes of Ammonium nitrate? I think we're talking about a van packed full of the stuff.

They had 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate... and had plans to attack the headquarters for CSIS in downtown Toronto, among other sites. They confirmed that there was a training camp north of Toronto where they organized themselves along jihadist lines.

Really, you don't have to agree with Canada's current foreign involvements to take down domestic terrorism. I hardly think the resources spent to take down 17 people were based on a 'hunch'. Would you rather wait for explosions in downtown Toronto before you praise the RCMP for their work?

The planned terrorist attack was a scheme planned out by Stephen Harper so the Canadian public will elect him to a majority government. He wants to show the public that he's tougher on terrorist than the Liberals. Am I joking? Am I being sarcastic? Not at all. Harper had something to do with this. I'm sure of it.

Fixed your simplism for you.

Lol - as opposed to the 5 word post with a made up word that just oozed with complexity.

Still I guess that for some, accepting that America isn't the big bad wolf that's out to eat their children isn't the easiest thing in the world to do, you carry on living in your ideological house of straw.

They seized 'chemicals to make explosives' did they? So didn't actually seize any actual explosives? It's just that quite a lot of people have all the chemicals needed to make explosives in their own homes.

'took steps'? What's that mean? They went to the garden centre to buy some fertiliser?

I'd like to have more evidence that these guys were really intending to carry out a terrorist attack before I praise the Mounties for their efforts.

And seriously what is the volume of 3 tonnes of Ammonium nitrate? I think we're talking about a van packed full of the stuff.

Aside from the fact that this probably isn't the only evidence the police have I think it's fairly unlikely that they were planning a massive gardening extravaganza.

Surely even Canada has some idiots?

We do indeed. We call them Ottawa Senators fans.

Right. Because Al Qaeda has a history of targetting countries that have no involvement with affairs that they deem to relate to them. I mean, who can forget all of their attacks on South American countries?
*SNIP*

They aren't considered the "West" in their eyes.

The planned terrorist attack was a scheme planned out by Stephen Harper so the Canadian public will elect him to a majority government. He wants to show the public that he's tougher on terrorist than the Liberals. Am I joking? Am I being sarcastic? Not at all. Harper had something to do with this. I'm sure of it.

Damn amazing what that man can do after being in office for only what? 4-5 months? He didn't need this to get a majority, he was already high in the polls.

Al-queda's top ten list of targets

1. Christians
2. Jews especially Israeli ones
3. People from the US
4. People from Europe
5. People from Canada
6. People from Kenya
7. people from Bali
8. Muslims who dont follow al-queda's twisted and corrupt version of islam
9. Infidels who dont follow al-queda's twisted and corrupt version of islam
10. everyone else basically

Dont think for one minute that being tolerant and liberal in belief will get you off the hook, you should be following their version of Islam... and if you are following their version of islam and get killed by them (innocent by-stander) then that's the will of Allah and just gets you to heaven quicker.



Yay for us!(no. 10)

Well, like they say, behind every successful man there is a...:p

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060629.wxblog29/BNStory/National/home

Hateful chatter behind the veil
Key suspects' wives held radical views, Web postings reveal

OMAR EL AKKAD AND GREG MCARTHUR

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

MISSISSAUGA — When it came time to write up the premarital agreement between Zakaria Amara and Nada Farooq, Ms. Farooq briefly considered adding a clause that would allow her to ask for a divorce.

She said that Mr. Amara (now accused of being a leader of the alleged terror plot that led to the arrests of 17 Muslim men early this month) had to aspire to take part in jihad.

"[And] if he ever refuses a clear opportunity to leave for jihad, then i want the choice of divorce," she wrote in one of more than 6,000 Internet postings uncovered by The Globe and Mail.

Wives of four of the central figures arrested last month were among the most active on the website, sharing, among other things, their passion for holy war, disgust at virtually every aspect of non-Muslim society and a hatred of Canada. The posts were made on personal blogs belonging to both Mr. Amara and Ms. Farooq, as well as a semi-private forum founded by Ms. Farooq where dozens of teens in the Meadowvale Secondary School area chatted. The vast majority of the posts were made over a period of about 20 months, mostly in 2004, and the majority of those were made by the group's female members.

The tightly knit group of women who chatted with each other includes Mariya (the wife of alleged leader Fahim Ahmad), Nada (the wife of Mr. Amara, the alleged right-hand man) Nada's sister Rana (wife of suspect Ahmad Ghany), as well as Cheryfa MacAulay Jamal (the Muslim convert from Cape Breton, N.S. who married the oldest suspect, 43-year-old Qayyum Abdul Jamal). The women's husbands are part of a core group of seven charged with the most severe crimes -- plotting to detonate truck bombs against the Toronto Stock Exchange, a Canadian Forces target, and the Toronto offices of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

The women were bound by the same social, political and ideological aims. They organized "sisters-only" swimming days and held fundraisers for the notorious al-Qaeda-linked Khadr family. With the exception of the occasional Urdu or Arabic word or phrase, their posts are exclusively in English.

After their husbands were arrested, most of the women refused to tell their stories to the media; reached at her home in Mississauga, Ms. Farooq would not comment on her posts.

But in the years leading up to the arrests, they shared their stories with one another.

She knows it freaks her husband out just thinking about it, but 18-year-old Nada Farooq doesn't care: She wants a baby. It is mid-April, 2004, and the two have been married for less than a year. In the end, the jihad clause was not included in a prenuptial agreement.

Like many students at Meadowvale Secondary School, Zakaria Amara is busy worrying about final exams and what, if any, university to go to. But Ms. Farooq -- the Karachi-born daughter of a pharmacist who now hands out prescription medicine to soldiers at the Canadian Forces Base in Wainwright, Alta. -- has already done a fair bit of daydreaming about what it would be like to have a child. She even has a name picked. If she has a boy, she wants to name him Khattab, after the commander of the mujahedeen in Chechnya who battled Moscow until he was assassinated in 2002.

"And i pray to Allah my sons follow his footsteps Ameeen [Amen]," she writes at the on-line forum she founded for Muslim teens in Mississauga's Meadowvale area. Her avatar -- an on-line symbol used to indicate personality -- is a picture of the Koran and a rifle.

(All postings in this story have been rendered as they appeared on-line.)

There is nothing casual about Ms. Farooq's interpretation of Islam. She reiterates the belief that jihad is the "sixth pillar" of the religion, and her on-line postings are decidedly interested in the violent kind. In the forum titled "Terrorism and killing civilians," she writes a detailed point-by-point explanation of why the Taliban is destined to emerge victorious in Afghanistan.

Virtually every other government on the planet, however, she only has disdain for.

"All muslim politicians are corrupt," she writes. "There's no one out there willing to rule the country by the laws of Allah, rather they fight to rule the country by the laws of democracy." She criticizes Muslims in places such as Dubai for spending money on elaborate buildings while Iraqis are being killed.

Ms. Farooq's criticism is often directed first at other Muslims. When another poster writes about how he finds homosexuality disgusting, Nada replies by pointing out that there are even gay Muslims. She then posts a photo of a rally held by Al-Fatiha, a Canadian support group for gay Muslims. "Look at these pathetic people," she writes. "They should all be sent to Saudi, where these sickos are executed or crushed by a wall, in public."

The majority of Muslims Ms. Farooq does admire are ones currently at war, and she reserves her most vitriolic comments for the people they are at war with.

In a thread started by Mr. Fahim's wife, Mariya, marking the death of Hamas leader Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi after an Israeli missile strike, Ms. Farooq unleashes her fury: "May Allah crush these jews, bring them down to their kneees, humuliate them. Ya Allah make their women widows and their children orphans." The statement is so jarring that another poster complains it's not right for Muslims to wish such things on other people. Ms. Farooq's sister Rana is also in favour of violent resistance, posting often graphic photos of female militants and suicide bombers.

But while her heart may be in the battlefields and holy cities, Nada Farooq finds herself physically in Canada, a country the Karachi-born teen moved to after spending her childhood in Saudi Arabia. Her name is properly pronounced "Needa," and when she came to Canada as a child, some of the kids at her school teased her by calling her "Needa Shower." She'd often come home in tears.

The Farooqs, a Pakistani family, came to Canada in 1997 because they didn't like the idea of raising their children in the conservative society of Saudi Arabia, where foreign-born children don't have access to the same education as nationals, said Nada's father, Mohammad Umer Farooq.

When a Globe reporter contacted Nada's father at his home in Wainwright, and described some of his daughter's Internet postings, Mr. Farooq said he was "curious" and "concerned."

His daughter never expressed such opinions to him, he said, though he noted that he's worked in Alberta for the past five years and only makes it home to Mississauga a few weeks every year. He headed west because the pharmacist training hours required in Alberta were much lower.

His daughter has always been more religious than he and his wife, he said, and it was a faith that she developed in Canada, not Saudi Arabia. He described himself as 30 per cent religious and his daughter as 100 per cent.

"Occasionally. I pray. She prays five times."

While his daughter has used her Internet forum to lament the end of the Taliban, Mr. Farooq is a firm supporter of Canada's mission in Afghanistan. Many of the soldiers he serves at CFB Wainwright will eventually be joining the mission.

"They are there for the betterment of the people. They are there for the development of Afghanistan."

While she forms a close circle of Muslim friends, Ms. Farooq is never comfortable with life in Canada. She posts that her mother is often lonely because her father spends large portions of his time at work. She talks about going to the University of Toronto in Mississauga as fulfilling her parents' dreams rather than her own.

Ms. Farooq's hatred for the country is palpable. She hardly ever calls Canada by its name, rather repeatedly referring to it as "this filthy country." It's a sentiment shared by many of her friends, one of whom states that the laws of the country are irrelevant because they are not the laws of God.

In late April of 2004, a poster asks the forum members to share their impressions of what makes Canada unique. Nada's answer is straightforward.

"Who cares? We hate Canada."

In Cheryfa MacAulay Jamal's mind, every Muslim is another potential victim.

As a 44-year-old member of an on-line forum inhabited almost exclusively by teenagers, Ms. Jamal fits snugly into the role of maternal figure, and the advice she dispenses reflects her firm belief that the forces of evil are out to get every member of her adopted religion. She encourages Muslim youths to learn about herbal medicine and first aid lest they ever find themselves in a Muslim country under embargo, unable to receive proper medicine. Even in Canada, she says, one can never become complacent.

"You don't know that the Muslims in Canada will never be rounded up and put into internment camps like the Japanese were in WWII!" she writes in one 2004 post. This is a time when Muslims "are being systematically cleansed from the earth," she adds.

If she's looking for an example of such oppression, Ms. Jamal finds it in the Khadrs, the Canadian family whose patriarch, Ahmed Said Khadr, was killed by Pakistani forces and declared a martyr by al-Qaeda. In June, 2004, Ms. Jamal spearheaded a committee to help Mr. Khadr's widow, Maha. In Ms. Jamal's view, Maha Khadr and her family have committed no crime, only stated their opinion, and it is the duty of the entire Muslim nation to ensure the family's well-being.

Ms. Jamal's zealousness for homegrown Muslim causes is matched only by her rejection of just about everything Canadian. As the June, 2004 federal election draws near, she repeatedly advises Muslim youth to completely avoid the process. Voting, she tells them, inherently violates the sovereignty of God, making it the most egregious sin against Islam.

"Are you accepting a system that separates religion and state?" she asks. "Are you gonna give your pledge of allegiance to a party that puts secular laws above the laws of Allah? Are you gonna worship that which they worship? Are you going to throw away the most important thing that makes you a muslim?"

Ms. Jamal's list of forbidden institutions goes beyond politics. Banking, membership in the United Nations, women's rights and secular law are all aspects of Canadian society she finds unacceptable.

But her deepest outrage, like that of so many Muslims, is time and again sparked by the treatment of her brothers and sisters around the world. In a May, 2004 post titled "Behold Your Enemy!" she posts multiple articles describing the humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of American soldiers.

"Know what you will face one day," she warns fellow forum members. "Let them call you a terrorist, let them make you look like a savage, but know that THIS is the filth of the earth, the uncivilised destroyer of humanity.

"Know from this day that this is not an Iraqi problem, it is not an Afghani problem, it is not a Palestinian problem, it is not a Somali problem. IT IS YOUR PROBLEM!!!"

Often, the conversation was quite tame. The women post advice on make-up, organizing sisters-only events and finding restaurants that offer truly halal Chinese food. Fahim Ahmad's wife, Mariya, posts a warning to other women not to go watch the brothers play soccer, because it makes them uncomfortable."Yea, and besides, their OUR husbands!" Ms. Jamal concurs. "Go get your own to stare at!

But inevitably, it would come back to Islam, the very purpose for which Ms. Farooq created the forum in the first place. When it comes to religion, the wives of Mr. Amara, Mr. Jamal, Mr. Ghany and Mr. Ahmad exhibit a commitment to hard-line fundamentalism that rivals and often exceeds that of their husbands.

In May, 2004, the Meadowvale students come across an extremely graphic video showing the beheading of a U.S. hostage in Iraq. Mr. Fahim, posting under the name "Soldier of ALLAH," praises the killers as mujahedeen who will be rewarded in the afterlife. Another poster maintains the beheading was actually carried out by U.S. forces as a ploy to direct anger at the Muslim community. It's this post that inspires Nada to prohibit any further discussion of similar conspiracy theories.

Three posts later, her husband reprints an article claiming the Americans were responsible for the beheading.

But such occasional bickering between newlyweds does not stop Ms. Jamal from seeing the bigger picture. In her 40s, she is more than twice as old as most of the other Muslims on the forum. But like her husband, she believes young Muslims are the only ones capable of standing up against non-Muslim oppression.

For the most part, the wives of the other suspects do not let her down. This is especially true of Ms. Farooq, who deeply believes that education, financial success and other such goals are relatively frivolous because they only help Muslims during their time on Earth, and not in the afterlife. When another forum member disagrees with her view, she describes him as being "too much in this dunya [world]," and not sufficiently concerned with what comes after.

"Those who are sincere in pleasing Allah will go to whatever length to help the true believers," Ms. Farooq writes. "Those who fear Allah more than they fear the CSIS. Those are the ones who will succeed in the hereafter." NEXT: The transformation of

Zakaria Amara

Husbands and wives

CHERYFA AND QAYYUM ABDUL JAMAL

Cheryfa's age: 44

Husband: Qayyum Abdul Jamal, charged with knowingly participating in the activities of a terrorist group, receiving training and intent to cause an explosion

On-line nickname: UmmTayyab ("Mother of Tayyab")

Quote: "You don't know that the Muslims in Canada will never be rounded up and put into internment camps like the Japanese were in WWII!"

RANA AND AHMAD GHANY

Rana's age: 19

Husband: Ahmad Ghany, charged with knowingly participating in the activities of a terrorist group and receiving training

On-line nickname: Al-Mujahidah ("The Jihadist")

Quote: "May Allah curse the jews.. Ameen"

NADA FAROOQ AND ZAKARIA AMARA

Nada's age: 20

Husband: Zakaria Amara, charged with knowingly participating in the activities of a terrorist group, receiving training, providing training or recruiting and intent to cause an explosion

On-line nickname: Admin (the website's administrator)

Quote: "Those who fear Allah more than they fear the CSIS. Those are the ones who will succeed in the hereafter."

MARIYA AND FAHIM AHMAD

Mariya's age: 19

Husband: Fahim Ahmad, charged with knowingly participating in the activities of a terrorist group, importing a firearm, receiving training, providing training or recruiting and intent to cause an explosion

On-line nickname: Zawjatu Faheem ("Wife of Faheem")

Quote: "I heard that some sisters were watching the brothers play soccer last time...just wanted to let you know the brothers dont feel comfortable playing while the sisters are watching, so please, refrain from going there inshallaah and find something that will benefit you."

The planned terrorist attack was a scheme planned out by Stephen Harper so the Canadian public will elect him to a majority government. He wants to show the public that he's tougher on terrorist than the Liberals. Am I joking? Am I being sarcastic? Not at all. Harper had something to do with this. I'm sure of it.
I feel the same way about the July 7th bombings in the UK. War in Iraq unpopular?

Kill of 50-ish people and blame it on Islamic men!

Genius!

Shame Tony didn't quite get the ethnic cleansing that he seemingly wanted, eh?

The War on Terror - bring Balkan crises closer to the home!

The planned terrorist attack was a scheme planned out by Stephen Harper so the Canadian public will elect him to a majority government. He wants to show the public that he's tougher on terrorist than the Liberals. Am I joking? Am I being sarcastic? Not at all. Harper had something to do with this. I'm sure of it.

Any evidence of that?

Any evidence of that?

None whatsoever. Its another conspiracy by those who do not like harper. Its the same here in the states in regards to the 9/11 conspiracy theories that say that Bush had something to do with it.

Its false and it doesn't deserve any attention whatsoever.

I feel the same way about the July 7th bombings in the UK. War in Iraq unpopular?

Kill of 50-ish people and blame it on Islamic men!

Genius!

Shame Tony didn't quite get the ethnic cleansing that he seemingly wanted, eh?

The War on Terror - bring Balkan crises closer to the home!

You actually believe the men arrested had nothing to do with Islamic terrorism, and nothing to do with the attacks in London?

Your tinfoil hat needs adjusting.

None whatsoever. Its another conspiracy by those who do not like harper. Its the same here in the states in regards to the 9/11 conspiracy theories that say that Bush had something to do with it.

Its false and it doesn't deserve any attention whatsoever.

Well the usual thing for a conspiracy theorist to say when you point out that there's no evidence is: "Aha! There's no evidence so there must be a cover-up!" :rolleyes:

You actually believe the men arrested had nothing to do with Islamic terrorism, and nothing to do with the attacks in London?

Your tinfoil hat needs adjusting.

The photo of the bombers is a blatant fake and theres no witnesses so how do we know who it was?

The photo of the bombers is a blatant fake and theres no witnesses so how do we know who it was?
blatant fake?

Forensics ties the bomb residue to the apartments of the men. Add to that their writings, etc.

We do indeed. We call them Toronto Maple Leafs fans.

Fixed.

When the Canadians do it it's being "on the ball," but when the CIA does it's a breach of privacy...

No...

When the CIA/FBI does it without a warrant, its a breach of privacy.