NationStates Jolt Archive

So, on my way home, taking my girlfriend back to her place, we're coming through Bailey. As we pass the gas station, we see this black labrador laying on the road poke its head up at us. Thing is, as it did that, it was already too late: I ran directly over its skull. We contacted the owner and allowed him to take the now dead dog with him.

I wouldn't be mentioning this except that this has affected me emotionally far more than I might have suspected. As an athiest, I recognize the sanctity of life more than anyone else, because once it's gone, it's gone. And this was just a semi-sentient creature. I never, ever, ever want to be responsible for the death of a sentient being. I've always thought this, but never with as true a conviction as I do now. I wish more people would think this way. Things would probably be better.

Sucky.

I'm that way, too. I avoid even pillbugs like mad when I'm riding my bike.

I wouldn't be mentioning this except that this has affected me emotionally far more than I might have suspected. As an athiest, I recognize the sanctity of life more than anyone else, because once it's gone, it's gone. And this was just a semi-sentient creature. I never, ever, ever want to be responsible for the death of a sentient being. I've always thought this, but never with as true a conviction as I do now. I wish more people would think this way. Things would probably be better.

You mean you don't believe that all dogs go to heaven? Aww.

You mean you don't believe that all dogs go to heaven? Aww.
Heh. Cute movies, but no, no I do not.

You mean you don't believe that all dogs go to heaven? Aww.

Any place that doesn't allow a dog isn't worth visting.

I never, ever, ever want to be responsible for the death of a sentient being. I've always thought this, but never with as true a conviction as I do now. I wish more people would think this way. Things would probably be better.
Aye, they would.

That's fairly unlucky, Kyronea... I don't really know what to say, because "sorry for your loss" sounds a bit hollow...

Well. ..at least the dog died, and was not half way dead. I'm sorry to hear this, and I love animals, but shit happens. I'm glad it's out of its misery. As long as you know it wasn't intentional, and it wasn't intentional .. you'll be ok.

Aye, they would.

That's fairly unlucky, Kyronea... I don't really know what to say, because "sorry for your loss" sounds a bit hollow...
S'okay, dude. I'll be fine, overall. Damn my powerful emotions at times, though...(seriously, I was told by a doctor who gave me a thorough examination that the chemicals that cause emotions are somehow stronger in me than others, and thus every single one of my emotions is stronger. Quite frustrating at times, really.)

So, on my way home, taking my girlfriend back to her place, we're coming through Bailey. As we pass the gas station, we see this black labrador laying on the road poke its head up at us. Thing is, as it did that, it was already too late: I ran directly over its skull. We contacted the owner and allowed him to take the now dead dog with him.

I hate it when that happens. I always feel bad about hitting animals.

I wouldn't be mentioning this except that this has affected me emotionally far more than I might have suspected. As an athiest, I recognize the sanctity of life more than anyone else, because once it's gone, it's gone.

Do you really think that as a theist I'll recognize the sanctity of life any less than you do?

And this was just a semi-sentient creature. I never, ever, ever want to be responsible for the death of a sentient being. I've always thought this, but never with as true a conviction as I do now. I wish more people would think this way. Things would probably be better.

I would agree that more folks need to have a genuine respect for all life.

I

Do you really think that as a theist I'll recognize the sanctity of life any less than you do?
I didn't mean it like that, exactly. See, religious peeps believe there is some kind of afterlife or reincarnation or other way a person(and occasionally some non-sentient animals) "lives" after dying. Athiests recognize the reality--as we percieve it--that such doesn't exist. I'd say that might mean we value it more. We're talking relatively here, of course. I am not trying to imply that religious peeps don't care about life or anything. It's relative amounts.

I didn't mean it like that, exactly. See, religious peeps believe there is some kind of afterlife or reincarnation or other way a person(and occasionally some non-sentient animals) "lives" after dying. Athiests recognize the reality--as we percieve it--that such doesn't exist. I'd say that might mean we value it more. We're talking relatively here, of course. I am not trying to imply that religious peeps don't care about life or anything. It's relative amounts.

I think major branches of Christianity traditionally rejected the idea that animals had souls or an afterlife. I'm not sure about Islam, and Judaism tends to believe that they do have an afterlife in some situations. In any case, it would seem that those Christians and Atheists would be in the same boat in regards to a motive to respect animal life.

But to propose a counter-example, religions that have traditionally believed animals could reincarnate or have an afterlife (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Judaism) have all taught extreme compassion to animals, whereas those that reject an afterlife for animals (Christianity) have been less humane.

It also seems just as reasonable to go either way with a lack of afterlife belief. Why be compassionate for life when after life nothing exists? The animal doesn't care anymore either way, because its totally gone, so why should we care? Nihilism hints at this, and tends to be an Atheistic philosophy, as do various modes of existentialism.

EDIT:

So, on that note, I think it is your personal compassion and interpretation of Atheism and a lack of an afterlife that leads you to those conclusions, rather than Atheism itself.

I think major branches of Christianity traditionally rejected the idea that animals had souls or an afterlife. I'm not sure about Islam, and Judaism tends to believe that they do have an afterlife in some situations. In any case, it would seem that those Christians and Atheists would be in the same boat in regards to a motive to respect animal life.

But to propose a counter-example, religions that have traditionally believed animals could reincarnate or have an afterlife (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Judaism) have all taught extreme compassion to animals, whereas those that reject an afterlife for animals (Christianity) have been less humane.

It also seems just as reasonable to go either way with a lack of afterlife belief. Why be compassionate for life when after life nothing exists? The animal doesn't care anymore either way, because its totally gone, so why should we care? Nihilism hints at this, and tends to be an Atheistic philosophy, as do various modes of existentialism.

EDIT:

So, on that note, I think it is your personal compassion and interpretation of Atheism and a lack of an afterlife that leads you to those conclusions, rather than Atheism itself.
You're probably right. I'm just too nice at times.

I didn't mean it like that, exactly. See, religious peeps believe there is some kind of afterlife or reincarnation or other way a person(and occasionally some non-sentient animals) "lives" after dying.

True. But not all of those religious peeps see this life as being any less important because of their belief in an afterlife. See, religion serves two functions that are relevant in this case. It tells people how to live this life (generally by respecting the lives of others and in the case of Jain Buddhism and Catholicism an even more extreme respect of life), and offers them the hope of a better life later as an incentive to follow the guidelines that tell them how to live this life. Our lives in this world are the focus of religion, and the belief in an afterlife or reincarnation is meant to improve our drive to make the most of this one. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work to create a greater respect for life in religious folks and the lack of belief in an afterlife doesn't always do it for atheists either.

Athiests recognize the reality--as we percieve it--that such doesn't exist. I'd say that might mean we value it more. We're talking relatively here, of course. I am not trying to imply that religious peeps don't care about life or anything. It's relative amounts.

Some atheists I've met do value life more highly than some religious folks I've met. And some religious folks I've met value life more highly than some atheists I've met. I haven't seen a trend towards either of them being relatively more respectful of life than the other. It would be interesting to do a study and try to see which group is more respectful of life overall.

So, on that note, I think it is your personal compassion and interpretation of Atheism and a lack of an afterlife that leads you to those conclusions, rather than Atheism itself.

This sums up my point nicely.

Aw, dude, that sucks. The poor thing. :(

As long as the poor sod died immedialty .. it's ok. I'm not holding animals up to man, animals are animals .. and will always be below humans.. (although I've known quite a few humans who deserved much less life time than some animals I've known) .. but I give respect to each. Like I said earlier .. if this was a mistake, and accident.. don't worry about it. Have your sadness and get over it.

I wouldn't be mentioning this except that this has affected me emotionally far more than I might have suspected. As an athiest, I recognize the sanctity of life more than anyone else, because once it's gone, it's gone. And this was just a semi-sentient creature. I never, ever, ever want to be responsible for the death of a sentient being. I've always thought this, but never with as true a conviction as I do now. I wish more people would think this way. Things would probably be better.Just out of curiosity; had any good burgers lately?

There's no reason to feel bad about it. There's no way you can help being directly or indirectly responsible for the demise of a lot of critters. I'm vegan myself, but that doesn't mean all sorts of cute little bunnies & shit, don't get ground up by harvesters & their bits baked into my bread.

The most you can do, is try to limit the amount of animals you maul. And really.. One damn dog doesn't matter a hell of a lot in the grand scope of things. Donate some money to wildlife preserves if it makes you feel better. Actually, do it anyway.

Get yourself a good lawyer. The suit'll probably be just around the corner.

Sad, My current dog was hit by a car as he ran across the street a few years ago, we took him to the vet and he became well again, he now avoids doing that as he remembers what happened.

I had to put my other dog before him to sleep. to end his suffering as well as mine.

One reason I believe in Euthanasia for people too.

I try to avoid running animals over with my car, but over the years, I've accumulated quite a total and quite a variety of quadrupeds.

Lost my mutt a while ago, car vs Chihuwua ... car won.

Any place that doesn't allow a dog isn't worth visting.
Aye.

So, on my way home, taking my girlfriend back to her place, we're coming through Bailey. As we pass the gas station, we see this black labrador laying on the road poke its head up at us. Thing is, as it did that, it was already too late: I ran directly over its skull. We contacted the owner and allowed him to take the now dead dog with him.

I wouldn't be mentioning this except that this has affected me emotionally far more than I might have suspected. As an athiest, I recognize the sanctity of life more than anyone else, because once it's gone, it's gone. And this was just a semi-sentient creature. I never, ever, ever want to be responsible for the death of a sentient being. I've always thought this, but never with as true a conviction as I do now. I wish more people would think this way. Things would probably be better.
since your an athiest you deserved this ha ha ha you kill a dog i bet you could hear its head crushed and its brain splattered everywhere

Just out of curiosity; had any good burgers lately?

There's no reason to feel bad about it. There's no way you can help being directly or indirectly responsible for the demise of a lot of critters. I'm vegan myself, but that doesn't mean all sorts of cute little bunnies & shit, don't get ground up by harvesters & their bits baked into my bread.

The most you can do, is try to limit the amount of animals you maul. And really.. One damn dog doesn't matter a hell of a lot in the grand scope of things. Donate some money to wildlife preserves if it makes you feel better. Actually, do it anyway.
don't help hippies eat some meat

Any place that doesn't allow a dog isn't worth visting.

Amen.

since your an athiest you deserved this ha ha ha you kill a dog i bet you could hear its head crushed and its brain splattered everywhere

Jesus christ I bet your one crazy Zionist whore, go pedal your bible into a fire pit wont you?

Jesus christ I bet your one crazy Zionist whore, go pedal your bible into a fire pit wont you?
i am sorry what

I've been on the other side of this animal vs car, car wins problem. I lost one of my cats a couple of years ago when she wandered behind my neighbours car while he was backing out of his driveway. I had to have her put down later that day because her injuries were just too severe. The neighbour was devestated about it, drove her and me to the vet, and insisted on helping to pay the bill. I told him constantly it wasn't his fault, but I don't think that made him feel any better.

I know this is easy for me to say, but try to not feel too bad about this. You didn't do it deliberetly, it was an accident. A lot of animals just have no road sense, and drivers can't avoid hitting them when they dart, wander or lie on roads. It is up to us owners to keep our pets safe from cars, as safe as we can anyway.

i am sorry what

what you like ass fucking?

You mean you don't believe that all dogs go to heaven? Aww.
Any place that does allow dogs isn't worth even thinking about.

My dog was hit and killed by a car over a year and a half ago. The bastard who did it didn't have the decency to call us or anything and I ended up finding him on the way home on the side of the road...my little sister was 7 at the time and it was really hard for her because he was her best buddy. :(

I really think you did the right thing given the situation...I hope you feel better.

i have come close but to date have not ran over anyones pets. it is a sad thing to lose a pet or anything that means alot to you for that matter. i cant imagine what i would do if someone came to my door telling me that they ran over my dog.

both positions are really tough for both people. the person having the guilt of running the dog over and then if they had the balls enough to go let the owner know of what they did would also take alot of courage and emotional power. of course the person whos dog it was in the first place just lost a pet at the least and most likely a best friend.

i understand what you have gone through, while i have never ran a dog over i have killed on accident other animals with other means of killing them. i take fault in the death of my own birds that i beleive they fell sick and died one night.

Now there's some MAJOR problems of modern world exposed!

1.Dog's treated unnaturally ---> Dogs not part of nature anymore, worse than robots actually. Sold their country.

I mean, surely you would have felt the same way hitting a caterpillar?? Right?? And forget that theoretical mumbo-jumbo taught at schools. They lie. Maggots have feelings, too! Or if they don't, then don't the dogs either. Nor you.

2.Too mechanized ---> Shit happens. Regularly. For a long time to come.

Ever thought of learning how to ride a horse or try and walk (not that nothing would be hit then)? Now's a good time. Doesn't pollute, either.

3.Views on atheism ---> The nature thanks a natures friend. Really.

There's no bad in believing in no god, but if you don't believe in nature (and at least try your best accordingly) then you don't exist in your mind in any mental or physical form, at least if you're a least bit logical, which makes all just a little bit confusing. If you can live with that (which actually is impossible due to unexistance stated before), then be my guest.

Really ppl, try and think of the nature before you do anything stupid (not moralizing, just pointing out my views), not that I would be any better. But still. :)

I mean, surely you would have felt the same way hitting a caterpillar?? Right?? And forget that theoretical mumbo-jumbo taught at schools. They lie. Maggots have feelings, too! Or if they don't, then don't the dogs either. Nor you.





I cried when my father-in-law killed the spider I was letting live in our apartment because it was cold outside...I completely agree all life have feelings in one way or another.

I cried when my father-in-law killed the spider I was letting live in our apartment because it was cold outside...I completely agree all life have feelings in one way or another.
But still, death is a BIG part of the nature. Without death life wouldn't go anywhere. I really don't usually cry, who- or whatever dies. Actually, I feel happy for them. And, in a way, envious.

what you like ass fucking? thats just kinda mean

thats just kinda mean

well in all fairness what you said was mean and misrepresented those of a religious following.

well in all fairness what you said was mean and misrepresented those of a religious following.
ok i will admit that and i apologize but i will not apologize for the hippie comment

I wouldn't be mentioning this except that this has affected me emotionally far more than I might have suspected. As an athiest, I recognize the sanctity of life more than anyone else, because once it's gone, it's gone. And this was just a semi-sentient creature. I never, ever, ever want to be responsible for the death of a sentient being. I've always thought this, but never with as true a conviction as I do now. I wish more people would think this way. Things would probably be better.
My, someone certainly has a high opinion of themselves. Pretentious comes to mind. Preachy as a Christian also does.

:( Yeah it's kind of surpising how much killing an animal can get under your skin.Mainlly the idea of accidentlly killing someones pet is what bothers me.

aw dude you should have sparked up the bbq and invited afew ppl over to make it party.....

:( Yeah it's kind of surpising how much killing an animal can get under your skin.Mainlly the idea of accidentlly killing someones pet is what bothers me.
In my opinion you can't own an animal. You can have an animal as a friend. And every animal is really someone's friend, even if some other animal's. So actually it's not anyone's "pet" you kill, but rather their friend. Cheers u up doesn't it? And thinking of it, you just can't help killing them all the time. Every single move you make, billions of tiny animals die just because of that, every single one as (or rather even more) valuable as yourself. Doesn't justify it, though. No need to kill more than you do to stay alive. That's all. :)

I commend you on stopping, the owner, in his/her grief, will appreciate that through his/her anguish, and know that the dog's death was not done by malice, or was not carried out by someone who then drove off.

I do wonder though, what the dog was doing in the road, by itself.

Labradors have a habit of messing about in roads.

There's one that lives next door to me. It's been run over a total of 3 times and survived each time.

It's not the dog's fault, or maybe it is, the dog should have probably learnt the first time roads are a nasty place. The owner is a person who does not really think "Hmm, my dog's running in the road.....it might get run over."



As long as the poor sod died immedialty .. it's ok. I'm not holding animals up to man, animals are animals .. and will always be below humans.. .

I disagree with that.

Animals don't have malice, or think they are superior to one another, or have ideology that they try to enslave another with.


Any place that doesn't allow a dog isn't worth visting.

*raises glass*

Hear hear!

I disagree with that.

Animals don't have malice, or think they are superior to one another, or have ideology that they try to enslave another with.

Perhaps not the latter, but I think they can have the first two.

Perhaps not the latter, but I think they can have the first two.

The enslaving part?

Ok. There's a wasp that enslaves a Caterpillar and paralyses it for food for it's young by laying the eggs in the caterpillar, to be then eaten alive.

But that is not ideology, that's nature.

It's not saying "I'm doing this because I hate you" or "I'm doing this because I am superior"

It's saying "I'm doing this because you're food", it's not ideology.

The wasp does not hate the caterpillar.

The enslaving part?

Ok. There's a wasp that enslaves a Caterpillar and paralyses it for food for it's young by laying the eggs in the caterpillar, to be then eaten alive.

But that is not ideology, that's nature.

It's not saying "I'm doing this because I hate you" or "I'm doing this because I am superior"

It's saying "I'm doing this because you're food", it's not ideology.

The wasp does not hate the caterpillar.

I meant that the slavery one doesn't apply to animals. But heres an anecdote relating to the other two...

When I was a kid, we used to have an aviary of budgerigars in our backyard.

This one particular female bird systematically killed off all of the other females, by practically tearing their throats out.

Now, that might be "nature", but it was a malicious way for the bird to assert her superiority over the other birds. (and very unusual for the particular species)

I meant that the slavery one doesn't apply to animals. But heres an anecdote relating to the other two...

When I was a kid, we used to have an aviary of budgerigars in our backyard.

This one particular female bird systematically killed off all of the other females, by practically tearing their throats out.

Now, that might be "nature", but it was a malicious way for the bird to assert her superiority over the other birds. (and very unusual for the particular species)

:eek: *Is disturbed*

Perhaps not the latter, but I think they can have the first two.
That would depend on individuals.

I meant that the slavery one doesn't apply to animals. But heres an anecdote relating to the other two...

When I was a kid, we used to have an aviary of budgerigars in our backyard.

This one particular female bird systematically killed off all of the other females, by practically tearing their throats out.

Now, that might be "nature", but it was a malicious way for the bird to assert her superiority over the other birds. (and very unusual for the particular species)

You view it as malicious, but the bird did not think "I hate you, I'm superior, time to die feathered motherf******!" she killed them in the nature of things, which is that she was competing against other females perhaps, for a male, regardless whether he was around or not.

Not superiority in ideology, but the fight to ensure her genes were passed on.

Not malice, just nature.

So, on my way home, taking my girlfriend back to her place, we're coming through Bailey. As we pass the gas station, we see this black labrador laying on the road poke its head up at us. Thing is, as it did that, it was already too late: I ran directly over its skull. We contacted the owner and allowed him to take the now dead dog with him.

I wouldn't be mentioning this except that this has affected me emotionally far more than I might have suspected. As an athiest, I recognize the sanctity of life more than anyone else, because once it's gone, it's gone. And this was just a semi-sentient creature. I never, ever, ever want to be responsible for the death of a sentient being. I've always thought this, but never with as true a conviction as I do now. I wish more people would think this way. Things would probably be better.That sucks. Shit happens sometimes. Doesn't mean it's easy to get over.

So, on my way home, taking my girlfriend back to her place, we're coming through Bailey. As we pass the gas station, we see this black labrador laying on the road poke its head up at us. Thing is, as it did that, it was already too late: I ran directly over its skull. We contacted the owner and allowed him to take the now dead dog with him.

I wouldn't be mentioning this except that this has affected me emotionally far more than I might have suspected. As an athiest, I recognize the sanctity of life more than anyone else, because once it's gone, it's gone. And this was just a semi-sentient creature. I never, ever, ever want to be responsible for the death of a sentient being. I've always thought this, but never with as true a conviction as I do now. I wish more people would think this way. Things would probably be better.

So it affected you emotionally? What are you expecting us to say? That you are forgiven because you feel guilty? Or the fact that you use your mistake to give a lecture based on your idiotic assumption that atheists care more for sanctity of life should lessen your careless driving? Not only you killed the dog but you made their owners very sad, for a long time. You should do more than writing a post in NS forum. Go help the dogs or animals in the world somehow. They are mistreated in lots of places. Donate some money to a charity. Do something...

So what's for dinner tonight?

So what's for dinner tonight?
Err...roadkill kebab? :rolleyes:

C'est la vie. Don't spend too much time beating yourself up about it though, another important tenet of atheism is that the past is the past is the past, and it's not worth worrying about in the present.

I hate you.
That's terrible.

The only way to absolve yourself of this horrible incident is to ask the dogs owner to run over your head...

So it affected you emotionally? What are you expecting us to say? That you are forgiven because you feel guilty? Or the fact that you use your mistake to give a lecture based on your idiotic assumption that atheists care more for sanctity of life should lessen your careless driving? Not only you killed the dog but you made their owners very sad, for a long time. You should do more than writing a post in NS forum. Go help the dogs or animals in the world somehow. They are mistreated in lots of places. Donate some money to a charity. Do something...
From his description, that sure as hell doesn't look like reckless driving. He was driving fine, than a Dog appeared in the street and he couldn't react in time.