NationStates Jolt Archive

Alright folks, I just wanted to explain something briefly because I seem to see a lot of misusage and confusion about this.

Godwin's Law is not a recognized "law" in any case, nor is it a recognized logical principle. Every time someone brings up Hitler in a thread, someone attempts to shout out "Ha ha! I got you! Godwin's Law! You lose!"

Well, that isn't the case. There are valid analogies of situations with the Nazi regime, and valid analogies of people to Hitler. Improper usage of these analogies, or bringing up Nazis and Hitler inappropriately, fall under other fallacies, such as the ad hominem "You're like Hitler!" extremist speech "That's as bad as Hitler!" or fallacious analogies "Mandela was like Hitler!" However, bringing up Nazis or Hitler in any case where it is applicable, such as if someone is a neo-Nazi (You're like Hitler!) or mass genocide of a population (That's as bad as Hitler!), etc. are all valid. They don't violate any logical principles.

Mike Godwin made up Godwin's Law to refer to the extensive use of Hitler as a scapegoat and hyperboile when inappropriate. It says nothing of the proper usage of Nazi or Hitler analogies. When logical principles are violated, we should point those out instead of crying, "OMFG!!! He said Hitler! Loooser! Godwin's Law!!!!" Thats just not the way it works.

OMFG!!! He said Hitler! Loooser! Godwin's Law!!!!

I'm sorry I just couldn't help myself.

Alright folks, I just wanted to explain something briefly because I seem to see a lot of misusage and confusion about this.

Godwin's Law is not a recognized "law" in any case, nor is it a recognized logical principle. Every time someone brings up Hitler in a thread, someone attempts to shout out "Ha ha! I got you! Godwin's Law! You lose!"

Well, that isn't the case. There are valid analogies of situations with the Nazi regime, and valid analogies of people to Hitler. Improper usage of these analogies, or bringing up Nazis and Hitler inappropriately, fall under other fallacies, such as the ad hominem "You're like Hitler!" extremist speech "That's as bad as Hitler!" or fallacious analogies "Mandela was like Hitler!" However, bringing up Nazis or Hitler in any case where it is applicable, such as if someone is a neo-Nazi (You're like Hitler!) or mass genocide of a population (That's as bad as Hitler!), etc. are all valid. They don't violate any logical principles.

Mike Godwin made up Godwin's Law to refer to the extensive use of Hitler as a scapegoat and hyperboile when inappropriate. It says nothing of the proper usage of Nazi or Hitler analogies. When logical principles are violated, we should point those out instead of crying, "OMFG!!! He said Hitler! Loooser! Godwin's Law!!!!" Thats just not the way it works.

Godwins law is neither more nor less viable to invoke on this forum than ad hominem is.

This is a freeform forum and neither a college debating club nor logic course.

The rules of engagement may at times seem similar. They are not identical. Here free speech trumps Godwin or ad hominem. Moderator trumps free speech. Violet trumps Moderator. Max Barry trumps Violet. That is actual reality here. Your version is wishful thinking.

Godwins law is neither more nor less viable to invoke on this forum than ad hominem is.

This is a freeform forum and neither a college debating club nor logic course.

The rules of engagement may at times seem similar. They are not identical. Here free speech trumps Godwin or ad hominem. Moderator trumps free speech. Violet trumps Moderator. Max Barry trumps Violet. That is actual reality here. Your version is wishful thinking.

Educated people use simple logical principles in daily life. Its too bad some people think that logic only applies in debating clubs and logic courses.

The fact is, Godwin's Lawis less viable to the educated world, because it isn't a substantiated logical principle. In addition, people on these forums are misusing the term Godwin's Law, distorting it as if it was intended to apply to any mention of Hitler. It never was. If people are going to use it at all, they could at least use it appropriately. Better yet, they could ignore it all together like educated people and point out the real logical fallacies.

The rest of what you said (and this may be a bit ironic) is the fallacy of ignoratio elenchi. I never said anything about hierarchies, free speech, what trumps what, etc. Nor is free speech contradictory to being intelligent with the terms you're using (like Godwin's law) or using more intelligent terms (like knowing when real fallacies are active).

Educated people use simple logical principles in daily life. Its too bad some people think that logic only applies in debating clubs and logic courses.

The fact is, Godwin's Lawis less viable to the educated world, because it isn't a substantiated logical principle. In addition, people on these forums are misusing the term Godwin's Law, distorting it as if it was intended to apply to any mention of Hitler. It never was. If people are going to use it at all, they could at least use it appropriately. Better yet, they could ignore it all together like educated people and point out the real logical fallacies.

The rest of what you said (and this may be a bit ironic) is the fallacy of ignoratio elenchi. I never said anything about hierarchies, free speech, what trumps what, etc. Nor is free speech contradictory to being intelligent with the terms you're using (like Godwin's law) or using more intelligent terms (like knowing when real fallacies are active).

Which educated world exactly do you believe that you are in here? Just because you think something is right good and proper does not make it so.
Your rules do make sense. Just not in this arena. This may very well be a better arena if your rules were suddenly applied here. Or they might make the place as dry and humourless as the educated world you make your arguments in. We can wonder all day I suppose but we cant know because the rules of debate as described by you simply do not exist here. Sad but true.

Only Hitler hates Godwin's Law,.. Hitler.

Which educated world exactly do you believe that you are in here? Just because you think something is right good and proper does not make it so.
Your rules do make sense. Just not in this arena. This may very well be a better arena if your rules were suddenly applied here. Or they might make the place as dry and humourless as the educated world you make your arguments in. We can wonder all day I suppose but we cant know because the rules of debate as described by you simply do not exist here. Sad but true.

There are educated people on NS General. And most people are interested in constantly educating themselves.

In any case, logical principles are not "rules" nor are they "rules of debate." The educated world, both on and off NS General, will continue to recognize fallacies in discussions, common speech, debates, etc. In fact, I see it on a daily basis in these forums.

I would also keep in mind that logic, by definition, is a science. Many fallacies are laws in this science, and are applicable objectively. Saying "they don't apply here" in many instances is like saying "the law of gravity doesn't apply here" as if laws were magically suspended once you signed on to a computer. The laws will continue to apply, regardless of if people recognize them or understand them.

Can I be your idol ?

Can I be your idol ?

Do I worship you or do you sing for me?

There are educated people on NS General. And most people are interested in constantly educating themselves.

Which of those two positions are you taking?

In any case, logical principles are not "rules" nor are they "rules of debate." The educated world, both on and off NS General, will continue to recognize fallacies in discussions, common speech, debates, etc. In fact, I see it on a daily basis in these forums.

Anecdotal evidence. If you did not also see the opposite here then what exactly is the reason for you to choose to tell the forum how to post?

I would also keep in mind that logic, by definition, is a science. Many fallacies are laws in this science, and are applicable objectively. Saying "they don't apply here" in many instances is like saying "the law of gravity doesn't apply here" as if laws were magically suspended once you signed on to a computer. The laws will continue to apply, regardless of if people recognize them or
understand them.Lets just test that shall we?


You have come on strong telling people what they can say. Only those educated enough are allowed to post your way now?. This is just like Hitler and the Nazis did in Germany. Stop being a control freak.



There. Lets see if a debate coach enters and yellow cards me or if the post stands just like the others.


If so you may invoke both ad hominem and Mike Godwins law upon my post.

Then we will see if it still stands.

If you wish to test my hypothesis of reality on this forum you may invoke the ire of a moderator. I will not go this as I already know what will happen in that case whether it was purely logical to do so or not.

OMFG!!! He said Hitler! Loooser! Godwin's Law!!!!

I'm sorry I just couldn't help myself.

damn I was going to do that...

In response to your letters in red:

1. False dichotomy. People can be both.
2. Strawman. I never stated I didn't see the opposite.

I'm starting to think you're trolling, so I'll cut it off after this post.

You have come on strong telling people what they can say. Only those educated enough are allowed to post your way now?. This is just like Hitler and the Nazis did in Germany. Stop being a control freak.

I never stated what people could or couldn't say, or who was "allowed" to do anything. You're slipping into the strawman again. This supports that you're obviously a troll.

In response to your letters in red:

1. False dichotomy. People can be both.
2. Strawman. I never stated I didn't see the opposite.

I'm starting to think you're trolling, so I'll cut it off after this post.



I never stated what people could or couldn't say, or who was "allowed" to do anything. You're slipping into the strawman again. This supports that you're obviously a troll.

Ad hominem ad hominem!

Well, its a common misconception to use Godwin's Law to "win" - but the law is NOT that if someone mentions or refers to nazis or Hitler, that someone loses the thread.

Well, its a common misconception to use Godwin's Law to "win" - but the law is NOT that if someone mentions or refers to nazis or Hitler, that someone loses the thread.

Right, and that was part of my point. I see people consistently trying to refute any Nazi or Hitler reference by shouting "Godwin's Law" and even writing "you lose" as such. :rolleyes:

Right, and that was part of my point. I see people consistently trying to refute any Nazi or Hitler reference by shouting "Godwin's Law" and even writing "you lose" as such. :rolleyes:

Only a nazi would believe that.