NationStates Jolt Archive

Its my understanding that in Germany its a felony to deny that the Holocaust happened. I was curious how the law was implimenmted in reality. If someone sits at thier kitchen table and says the holocaust didnt happen can an irate relative get up and call the police and have him hauled away? Is it only in public speech? I can think of a million different scenarios and i wonder how these are dealt with. I mean in a bitter divorce case does one parent accuse one of being a child molester and the other says well i heard her say the holocaust didnt happen! I mean i realize its a sensative topic in Germany but i was wondering how the Laws were dealt with practically in real world scenarios.

That idiot David Irving got chucked into prison for breaking them. And he knew that he'd get imprisoned if he went back there. Just one example of how it works.

That idiot David Irving got chucked into prison for breaking them. And he knew that he'd get imprisoned if he went back there. Just one example of how it works.
No, that was Austria.

No, that was Austria.

Crud, wrong country. Still, a good example of the laws in general.

The really silly thing about Irving was that we went back to Austria to give a lecture after being warned what they would do.

The really silly thing about Irving was that we went back to Austria to give a lecture after being warned what they would do.

He's become a martyr for the Neo-Nazi cause. He knew exactly what he was doing. The Germans were played.

That idiot David Irving got chucked into prison for breaking them. And he knew that he'd get imprisoned if he went back there. Just one example of how it works.
But he had published work and gone on record stating it hadn't happened. He had held public lectures where he had said it.

I can't see how someone saying it in passing can be done for it. It would be similar to someone saying they like children sexually. Sure it's wrong and obscene, but you can't be arrested for that, can you?

I think it's only when published or stated in a public arena could the police really do anything about it.

He's become a martyr for the Neo-Nazi cause. He knew exactly what he was doing. The Germans were played.

How? he was pathetic at the trial and grovlled and said he was wrong in a ddesperate effort to avoid being sent to prison.

But he had published work and gone on record stating it hadn't happened. He had held public lectures where he had said it.

I can't see how someone saying it in passing can be done for it. It would be similar to someone saying they like children sexually. Sure it's wrong and obscene, but you can't be arrested for that, can you?

I think it's only when published or stated in a public arena could the police really do anything about it.

my understanding of the law is its public denyal of the holocaust. you can say what you like in private

He's become a martyr for the Neo-Nazi cause. He knew exactly what he was doing. The Germans were played.
If anyone at all, it was the Austrians that got played, as it still did not happen in Germany. :p
It is public a/o published denial that the law is concerned with.

my understanding of the law is its public denyal of the holocaust. you can say what you like in private

Yes.

German penal code:


§ 130 Volksverhetzung

[...]

(3) Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer eine unter der Herrschaft des Nationalsozialismus begangene Handlung der in § 220a Abs. 1 bezeichneten Art in einer Weise, die geeignet ist, den öffentlichen Frieden zu stören, öffentlich oder in einer Versammlung billigt, leugnet oder verharmlost.

(4) Absatz 2 gilt auch für Schriften (§ 11 Abs. 3) des in Absatz 3 bezeichneten Inhalts.

[...]

Rough translation: (I ain't no lawyer)

(3)"He who publicly or at a gathering condones, denies or diminishes an act which was committed under National Socialist rule, and the act in question applies to 220a of this penal code, will be punished with a prison sentence of up to five years or a fine."

(Annotation:
220a penal code refers to genocide in general, which entails the holocaust as a specific case of genocide.)

(4) "This also applies to writings the content of which is in accordance with (3)."

Thus, holocaust denial in writing or at gatherings can earn you five years in jail.

Privately, you may lie as much as you wish.

The treatment of hate speech in German constitutional law part I. (http://www.germanlawjournal.com/article.php?id=212)
The treatment of hate speech in German constitutional law Part II. (http://www.germanlawjournal.com/article.php?id=225)

Google isn't that hard to use, you know.

The treatment of hate speech in german constitutional law part I. (http://www.germanlawjournal.com/article.php?id=212)
The treatment of hate speech in german constitutional law Part II. (http://www.germanlawjournal.com/article.php?id=225)

Google isn't that hard to use, you know.

Excellent links.

How? he was pathetic at the trial and grovlled and said he was wrong in a ddesperate effort to avoid being sent to prison.

But he was still sent to prison. The Neonazi scum can now jump up and down and proclaim that governments are trying to suppress their 'Truth'.

But he was still sent to prison. The Neonazi scum can now jump up and down and proclaim that governments are trying to suppress their 'Truth'.

The thing being nobody really cares that they can. Everybody knew it was illegal. David Irving was not the first. He won't be the last.