NationStates Jolt Archive

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

America: The Good Neighbor.

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.

You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -- not once, but several times -- and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Stand proud, America!







I think this was written during the Vietnam War...
What do you guys think?

It's very sweat but factually mistaken in its assertion about the repayment of war loans.

*shrug, i didn't write it. I just liked the idea behind the message of it.

I'm not surprised it didn't get reported, it was broadcasted in 1973.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/sinclair.asp

Little old now, ne?

I think Americans have a lot to be proud of but as we found out in Britain when you are the dominant world power that acarries responisiblities and when you slip up every one will line up to have a dig at you.

I'm not surprised it didn't get reported, it was broadcasted in 1973.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/sinclair.asp

Little old now, ne?Damn, beat me to it.

This thing gets pulled out every few months, by US fanboys everywhere. It's sad, really.

Perhaps people would appreciate the US a bit more, if it didn't sponsor so many dictators & genocides, didn't export so many weapons, didn't undermine virtually all initivs for international cooperation & didn't actively try to force it's economic hegemony on everyone through military might.

Say, why does this turn up when Iraq is turning into another Vietnam?

because they need cheering up

Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble?
Sure I can:
What about the Cuban doctors that Fidel offered to send to New Orleans? Oh no, of course, they dont count, because they werent allowed to enter the US... So that offer doesnt count. Right?

Sure I can:
What about the Cuban doctors that Fidel offered to send to New Orleans? Oh no, of course, they dont count, because they werent allowed to enter the US... So that offer doesnt count. Right?

Or Chavez's offer of oil and other necessities? I believe they were the first to offer help to their 'North American brothers'.

Damn, beat me to it.

This thing gets pulled out every few months, by US fanboys everywhere. It's sad, really.

Perhaps people would appreciate the US a bit more, if it didn't sponsor so many dictators & genocides, didn't export so many weapons, didn't undermine virtually all initivs for international cooperation & didn't actively try to force it's economic hegemony on everyone through military might.
And perhaps if people started realizing that there are good things and bad things about every country, and that railing against the faults of a country while ignoring the good things that country does is idiotic and hateful, we'd have peace.

Unfortunately, very few ever do that.

About the Marshal plan issue, the Americans cut the loans to the UK significently after the British people elected Labour after the war, ousting Winston Churchill in a move that shocked America significently.

I was going to say if it's written today they're forgetting about the milliions (or is it billions?) of dollars the US owes Canada from violating free trade agreements. Some neighbours.

And perhaps if people started realizing that there are good things and bad things about every country, and that railing against the faults of a country while ignoring the good things that country does is idiotic and hateful, we'd have peace.

Unfortunately, very few ever do that.What, it's wrong not to wrap criticism up in a "but there's also a few good things to be said for the US, like the constitution"?

Give me a break. If you can enforce global economic hegemony & start illegal wars for resources, you can take the criticism. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

There's plenty of great things about America. There's also plenty of horrendous things about America, and many of them on a completely unprecedented scale. The one does not excuse the other.

What, it's wrong not to wrap criticism up in a "but there's also a few good things to be said for the US, like the constitution"?

Give me a break. If you can enforce global economic hegemony & start illegal wars for resources, you can take the criticism. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

There's plenty of great things about America. There's also plenty of horrendous things about America, and many of them on a completely unprecedented scale. The one does not excuse the other.
I did not say that. You are twisting my words. My point is that you're completely ignoring any good America might do. You see the world America and immediately think "bad, evil religious people who are ignorant dumbfucks." I highly suggest you stop associating that meaning with Americans. Not all of us are like the idiots that voted in Bush, you know.

Of course my country has faults. Whose doesn't? Of course my country has done some damned horrible things. But so have other countries. I dunno about yours, but we've never had death camps, or gulags, or Inquisitions. No, we have had absolultely abhorrant concentration camps and prisons, not to mention some ridiculously stupid military officers(La Mai and Hadifa, anyone?) But do people still harp on Germany and Russia for the acts of the past? No. So why continue to harp on America? Give those of us who don't want those things a bloody chance to correct it all before dismiss us entirely out of hand.

Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble?
Post 9/11 Canadian volunteers headed south to help at the word trade centre, others gathered clothes, made doggy booties for rescue dogs, sent food, even donated blood (although enough americans donated blood that ours wasn't needed if I recall) Canadians in Newfoundland let Americans stranded on the island when their plane was grounded stay in their homes, gave them food et c.

Don't give me this shit of "Nobody helps us when we need it"

Post 9/11 Canadian volunteers headed south to help at the word trade centre, others gathered clothes, made doggy booties for rescue dogs, sent food, even donated blood (although enough americans donated blood that ours wasn't needed if I recall) Canadians in Newfoundland let Americans stranded on the island when their plane was grounded stay in their homes, gave them food et c.

Don't give me this shit of "Nobody helps us when we need it"
The person to whom you are speaking died quite some time ago, Dakini. Remember, that article was written in 1973.

I did not say that. You are twisting my words. My point is that you're completely ignoring any good America might do. You see the world America and immediately think "bad, evil religious people who are ignorant dumbfucks." I highly suggest you stop associating that meaning with Americans. Not all of us are like the idiots that voted in Bush, you know. It was not my intention to twist your words.

Still, you're right. I see the word "America", and I immediately think of corporate greed killing millions under the guise of "free" trade (which my country is guilty of as well, though we're honest about what we're doing). And yes, I immediately think of self-rightious fundies, out outlaw education & create a society based on sexual segregation - things that are bound to piss me off, seeing as practically all of Europe's economies are directly tied to the American economic hegemony & I've had the pleasure of a few boyfriends over the years.

Straughn linked to some indy media site from Alaska, not too long ago. It had an editorial about the importance of travel. I found myself agreeing with it unconditionally, as the vast majority of Americans I've met in person, were fairly reasonable people - whereas a hell of a lot of the Americans I communicate with online, or read about in various media, are utter nutters.

Nothing brings out my inner racist quite like you Americans do - but nothing puts it to shame quite like you Americans either.Of course my country has faults. Whose doesn't? Of course my country has done some damned horrible things. But so have other countries. I dunno about yours, but we've never had death camps, or gulags, or Inquisitions. No, we have had absolultely abhorrant concentration camps and prisons, not to mention some ridiculously stupid military officers(La Mai and Hadifa, anyone?) But do people still harp on Germany and Russia for the acts of the past? No. So why continue to harp on America? Give those of us who don't want those things a bloody chance to correct it all before dismiss us entirely out of hand.I wasn't even thinking about your nation's past crimes, nor would I blame you for them. That would be a pointless excercise in finger-pointing. Not too long ago, my country used to mutilate the genitals of handicapped people. The practice was abandoned before I was born, however, so what would be the point of holding that against my country & its residents? Not one current politician was around at the time, and only a fraction of the voters were around back then.
Past mistakes only have educational value. Regret is a fairly useless emotion on a national scale.

But let me make this clear; I abhor practically every international US initiv since WWII. I don't think your nation is a bastion of freedom & whatnot. I think your nation is the most violent & most exploitive society that has ever graced the planet. To use an analogy; your nation is the classic school-yard bully.

If you want to change that, then I wish you the very best & you have my full support. If not, then you really shouldn't be surprised at your country's inability to win this absurd "war on terror" its fighting.

If tomorrow all the things were gone,
I’d worked for all my life.
And I had to start again,
just my children and my wife.

I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.

And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I won't forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

From the lakes of Minnesota,
to the hills of Tennessee.
Across the plains of Texas,
From sea to shining sea.

From Detroit down to Houston,
and New York to L.A.
Well there's pride in every American heart,
and its time we stand and say.

That I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

Or Chavez's offer of oil and other necessities? I believe they were the first to offer help to their 'North American brothers'.

Yeah, that same generous guy that wanted to cut OPEC oil production to punish the US for its actions against Iran...or offer us cheap oil to keep the US dependent on Venezuela for its exports.

It was not my intention to twist your words.

Still, you're right. I see the word "America", and I immediately think of corporate greed killing millions under the guise of "free" trade (which my country is guilty of as well, though we're honest about what we're doing). And yes, I immediately think of self-rightious fundies, out outlaw education & create a society based on sexual segregation - things that are bound to piss me off, seeing as practically all of Europe's economies are directly tied to the American economic hegemony & I've had the pleasure of a few boyfriends over the years.

Straughn linked to some indy media site from Alaska, not too long ago. It had an editorial about the importance of travel. I found myself agreeing with it unconditionally, as the vast majority of Americans I've met in person, were fairly reasonable people - whereas a hell of a lot of the Americans I communicate with online, or read about in various media, are utter nutters.

Nothing brings out my inner racist quite like you Americans do - but nothing puts it to shame quite like you Americans either.I wasn't even thinking about your nation's past crimes, nor would I blame you for them. That would be a pointless excercise in finger-pointing. Not too long ago, my country used to mutilate the genitals of handicapped people. The practice was abandoned before I was born, however, so what would be the point of holding that against my country & its residents? Not one current politician was around at the time, and only a fraction of the voters were around back then.
Past mistakes only have educational value. Regret is a fairly useless emotion on a national scale.

But let me make this clear; I abhor practically every international US initiv since WWII. I don't think your nation is a bastion of freedom & whatnot. I think your nation is the most violent & most exploitive society that has ever graced the planet. To use an analogy; your nation is the classic school-yard bully.

If you want to change that, then I wish you the very best & you have my full support. If not, then you really shouldn't be surprised at your country's inability to win this absurd "war on terror" its fighting.
Alright then. I understand and respect your opinion. And you're damned right I want to change that. DAMNED RIGHT. I just hope I'm successful...that I can actually pull it off...

Say, why does this turn up when Iraq is turning into another Vietnam?

The death count and carnage was signficantly higher and we certainly set back the Viet Cong in Vietnam so I wouldn't label it a failure.

Of the U.S. military, 58,226 were killed in action or classified as missing in action. A further 153,303 US military personnel were wounded to give total casualties of 211,529. The United States Army took the majority of the casualties with 38,179 killed and 96,802 wounded; the Marine Corps lost 14,836 killed and 51,392 wounded; the Navy 2,556 and 4,178; the Air Force lost 2,580 and 931; with the lowest deaths in terms of numbers and percentages among the branches being the Coast Guard, with seven dead and 60 wounded.

The lowest casualty estimates, based on North Vietnamese statements which are now discounted by Vietnam, are around 1.5 million Vietnamese killed.

As of 1990, at least 150,000 Vietnam War Veterans have committed suicide since the war ended .

Apparently up to 230 soldiers were 'fragged' a term used to describe intentional friendly fire incidents because the person was unpopular; often an inept or daring officer who accepted dangerous missions.

Alright then. I understand and respect your opinion. And you're damned right I want to change that. DAMNED RIGHT. I just hope I'm successful...that I can actually pull it off...In that case, I'd advice you to start participating actively in party politics - if you don't already. MoveOn.org (http://www.moveon.org/) is a good place to start.

In that case, I'd advice you to start participating actively in party politics - if you don't already. MoveOn.org (http://www.moveon.org/) is a good place to start.
I am. I'm involved mainly within the Libertarian party, with the intent of turning it into a strong third party, one for centrists and all those other neato peeps that actually make sense.

I am. I'm involved mainly within the Libertarian party, with the intent of turning it into a strong third party, one for centrists and all those other neato peeps that actually make sense.Libertarian eh? I may end up liking you :cool:
I suspect there's quite a few things we agree on.

US. gov put punitive tariffs to U.K. goods after the WW2, which was already in debt to US. And by keeping it a long time US killed the UK economy and the hopes of their imperial revival, guaranteeing that they will be lone superpower of west. After UK surrendered to US economically they signed deals to become partners against USSR, in which US was the big brother and UK small obedient one.

American goverment did those things not beacuse of its good heart. It was done because otherwise results wouldnt be nice, like defeat against communism get what I mean?
In the polarised world two superpowers bribed and intimidated all the countries of world and greatly destroyed growing democracies right to govern themselves.
So todays generations realise what america and russia did to them, to what cost those ''help'' came. There are countless political assasinations all around the world unaccounted for.
Tell me what would you feel towards a country that organised a coup in you country and hanged your president along with other ministers, jailed and tortured intellectuals, journalists and used police forces to beat and torture univercity students?
Would you like a country that was behind the hanging of your president? tell me that.
If you can so please be proud o great americans.
The terrorists in Afghanistan were trained by your very CIA agents by the way to fight communism in the name of Allah etc. you created El Kaide and those fanatics, shaped the Irak and put Saddam as dictator etc. They never foresaw the end of coldwar because they dreamed of being big brothers. Always fighting the communism and always staying in power. But world changes...
What you must do is repent for your past by doing good things for all humanity, not with second thoughts in mind like setting good drug routes etc or favors in mind. You already got the interest of past 'helps' by tenfolding the original amounts. But you got used to it, today when it came to an end you seek to take more and more.

Libertarian eh? I may end up liking you :cool:
I suspect there's quite a few things we agree on.
Quite possibly. 'Course, I'm a wee bit more centrist than most Libertarians. I try to combine all aspects of everything into what makes the most sense. (For instance, welfare should only be for those who truly are unable to work, such as disabled folks. All others get a nice little fallback system that I like to call a hand up. You screw up once with it though, and you can forget about ever getting it again. Also, I favor efficient government, efficient programs. I think that, with everything streamlined for efficiency, we could probably cut spending across the board on everything a great deal and still be more effective. But, I'd have to actually look at everything before deciding. I should also mention I'm only nineteen so I still have college to go through before becoming a major influance anyway.)

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.This is no longer true for Germany
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.As we saw with Katrina, even Sri Lanka helped.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?Must have been before Airbus.
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.Honestly, how does having sent someone to the moon make anyone a better person?

I think this was written during the Vietnam War...
What do you guys think?It most certainly is no longer valid.

This is no longer true for GermanyThe EU & China continues to keep the US economy afloat these days, with massive loans & artificial investments.

The EU & China continues to keep the US economy afloat these days, with massive loans & artificial investments.I was attacking the point being made that none of the countries have paid or were paying back their debts. Germany finished paying back the US for the Marshall plan sometime in the 80s, I think.

The EU & China continues to keep the US economy afloat these days, with massive loans & artificial investments.

No, they keep it afloat with massive economically viable investments, trade, hiring, and construction of facilities. The US is an attractive place to invest and hire in; they don't do it because of some committment to our well being, they do it because the US is the biggest and one of the most diverse economies in the world and that makes it an attractive place to invest money in. The US markets offer both the higher returns on investment associated with emerging market nations and the stability of developed markets, and that is why it is such a popular choice for investment.

The EU and China are as dependent on our investment as we are on them for our wellbeing; after all, a trade deficit means more money is being spent on products from abroad, so more money is flowing in to the EU and China than they are spending here on our products.

Ans since the global economy is based on the US$, not keeping it afloat is economic suicide for everyone. Hence my use of the word artificial. We're keeping it up for the sake of it.

Of course my country has faults. Whose doesn't? Of course my country has done some damned horrible things. But so have other countries. I dunno about yours, but we've never had death camps, or gulags, or Inquisitions. No, we have had absolultely abhorrant concentration camps and prisons, not to mention some ridiculously stupid military officers(La Mai and Hadifa, anyone?) But do people still harp on Germany and Russia for the acts of the past? No. So why continue to harp on America? Give those of us who don't want those things a bloody chance to correct it all before dismiss us entirely out of hand.

Calm down mate. First of all, no ones still harping on at Germany and Russia because they aren't still declaring wars, secondly I fully accept that every country has its flaws. Britain isn't any better. But at least we dont go about calling ourselves "the greatest democracy on earth" or "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave". I think it's that sort of American ideology that really gets peoples backs up. I'd love to be able to watch an American movie without having to see an image of your flag every other scene :)

Ans since the global economy is based on the US$, not keeping it afloat is economic suicide for everyone. Hence my use of the word artificial. We're keeping it up for the sake of it.

There are other advantages to the US besides the value of our currency as a reserve and trade unit. We had one of the best workforces in the world with a large number of skilled people in virtually every sector, we have plentiful natural resources and arable land, we have one of the best systems of universities in the world and our research and development infrastructure is top-notch. We also possess a highly productive industrial base and plentiful capital for investment and consumer loans; our companies are also global leaders and our stock markets have the biggest market capitalizations in the world.

The US dollar is desirable because the US is an attractive place to invest and a world leader in business and technology, not the other way around. If we wern't a powerful economic and technological engine first, no one would want our currency. For example, no one traded in pounds before Britain became an economic powerhouse, and no one traded in dollars until the US did.

In my opinion China will soon leave America behind in it's dust anyway, so *Shrug*

Calm down mate. First of all, no ones still harping on at Germany and Russia because they aren't still declaring wars, secondly I fully accept that every country has its flaws. Britain isn't any better. But at least we dont go about calling ourselves "the greatest democracy on earth" or "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave". I think it's that sort of American ideology that really gets peoples backs up. I'd love to be able to watch an American movie without having to see an image of your flag every other scene :)
Well, open your eyes for a minute and look at our variety of films. Almost no sci-fi films--apart from shitty shit like Independence Day--contain an American flag. <_<

And I'm calm. Believe me. I do not get riled up on this. I become passionate on the subject, nothing more.

In my opinion China will soon leave America behind in it's dust anyway, so *Shrug*

China's lucky if they don't collapse in the near future. Their economy is so imbalanced and dependent on a small number of key industries that they will not be able to keep up their growth unless they make a number of serious and possibly painful reforms and liberalize their government to reduce civil unrest and corruption. They're ruining their economy and their people, and their environment is totally devastated in a number of places.

If they change, they will be able to achieve sustainable growth but if they don't China will face some serious economic consequences. Growth at any cost always ends in disaster, and China is no different.