NationStates Jolt Archive

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It's high entropy, low heat.

absolutely nothing

absolutely nothing
I actually made a thread just like this about a month ago.

There is nothing wrong with materialism. After all, spirituality doesn’t exist and to believe otherwise is to be deluded, so what else is there?

Agreed Undelia

Wait...are we talking about materialism as a metaphysical position or as a need to shop for shinies?

Wait...are we talking about materialism as a metaphysical position or as a need to shop for shinies?I think we're talking about materialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism) in the philosophical sense.

It doesn't matter anyway.

I think we're talking about materialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism) in the philosophical sense.
I'm speaking of it in both senses.
Ultimately, nothing matters, so why not spend your life attempting to accumulate wealth and the things associated with it?

I think we're talking about materialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism) in the philosophical sense.

Ack. Should have been clearer. That was a question specifically for the thread author. Thanks though.

It isn't defeating spirtism fast enough.

I'm speaking of it in both senses.
Ultimately, nothing matters, so why not spend your life attempting to accumulate wealth and the things associated with it?Oh.. Well, I can't say I necessarily agree with that, at least not if it conflicts with the ability of others to do the same.Ack. Should have been clearer. That was a question specifically for the thread author. Thanks though.Lucky for me it only took 2 seconds to link to the all-mighty Wiki then :p

It isn't defeating spirtism fast enough.

Spirtism?

I think we're talking about materialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism) in the philosophical sense.
Yes.

Yes.

Good. As it happens, I did hear a critique of materialism from a physicalist position pointing out that there are physical phenomena such as energy and heat that are not explained by the materialist paradigm which only allows for matter. I didn't give too much thought to whether it was an accurate critique or not, but it was an interesting point.

I'm speaking of it in both senses.
Ultimately, nothing matters, so why not spend your life attempting to accumulate wealth and the things associated with it?

its not that nothing matters, its more like material possessions don't matter. so, it doesn't matter if you've got lots of them. if you havent got lots, or choose not to, then it also doesn't matter.

being a good person matters, but if, in the course of being a good person, you happen to also own a few high-tech devices, a few fancy cars, and a decent super fund, then good on you, there's nothing wrong with that.

if god/the gods/the great green arkleseizure/the big bang/whoever, didnt want us to be materialistic, they wouldnt have created things.

Spirtism?Those fucking table-floaters! Let's kill 'em!

its not that nothing matters, its more like material possessions don't matter. so, it doesn't matter if you've got lots of them. if you havent got lots, or choose not to, then it also doesn't matter.
If having stuff makes you happy, then it matters.
being a good person matters
Only if it makes you happy.
if god/the gods/the great green arkleseizure/the big bang/whoever, didnt want us to be materialistic, they wouldnt have created things.
There is nothing that "wanted" us to be anyting. There are only the scientific laws that more or less randomly came about.

Spirtism?The belief unsupported by evidence that there is a spirtual world.
Good. As it happens, I did hear a critique of materialism from a physicalist position pointing out that there are physical phenomena such as energy and heat that are not explained by the materialist paradigm which only allows for matter. I didn't give too much thought to whether it was an accurate critique or not, but it was an interesting point.Materialism as it is used now does allow for the existance of energy provided that energy has at least a measureable effect.

The belief unsupported by evidence that there is a spirtual world.OK, but that's not spiritism (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Spiritism), strictly speaking.

The belief unsupported by evidence that there is a spirtual world.

Hmmm. It hasn't showed up in any of my philosophy texts and Wikipedia seems to be at a loss too. Strange.

Materialism as it is used now does allow for the existance of energy provided that energy has at least a measureable effect.

That's not surprising considering that from what I've observed, materialism is generally understood to have the definition of physicalism in common parlance.

It isn't defeating spirtism fast enough.
Looks like it has defeated yours...

I did hear a critique of materialism from a physicalist position pointing out that there are physical phenomena such as energy and heat that are not explained by the materialist paradigm which only allows for matter.

I think materialism generally includes the believe in any force or phenomenom which can be demonstrated and explained through consistent scientific reasoning, which includes energy, forces and other non-matter sorts of things.

I believe peoples' objection to Materialism stems from their opinion that it detracts from the (in their opinion) higher concerns of philosophy, theology, art, science, humanitarianism, et cetera.

When in fact, it is the materialist drive present within mankind that allows these fields to become viable for study. Without materialists we would have no technological progression and the lovers, the dreamers (and me) would be too busy avoiding mammoth-attacks to further themselves spiritually.

However! I would never try to convince someone to become a materialist, nor would I convince a materialist to abandon that view. Because it is essential for a society to have a balance between these two groups. The materialist masses occassionally need a spiritualist shoulder to cry on in times of extreme tragedy and the artists, scientists, holymen, etc. all enrich our lives (to varying extents) if we only support their existance, as the alternative of a purely materialist world invaribaly would lead to cultural void and eventual civil strife.

I believe peoples' objection to Materialism stems from their opinion that it detracts from the (in their opinion) higher concerns of philosophy, theology, art, science, humanitarianism, et cetera.
<Snip>Uhm.. Other than the superstition thing, how does materialism contradict things like art, humanism, love, compassion & all that crap?

What's wrong with it? Not enough people follow its teachings.

Uhm.. Other than the superstition thing, how does materialism contradict things like art, humanism, love, compassion & all that crap?

Because every moment you spend lusting for material things is a moment you do not spend considering fine art, etc.

Because every moment you spend lusting for material things is a moment you do not spend considering fine art, etc.Funny. I'd say appreciating a "fine art" painting, for example, to the point of wanting to buy it & hang it on your wall, is a completely materialistic thing to do.

I'm speaking of it in both senses.
Ultimately, nothing matters, so why not spend your life attempting to accumulate wealth and the things associated with it?
If only more people got that.

Originally Posted by Undelia
I'm speaking of it in both senses.
Ultimately, nothing matters, so why not spend your life attempting to accumulate wealth and the things associated with it?
That's a very nihilistic viewpoint. You could spend your pointless life trying to make the world a better place and the people within it happier with as much justification.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with materialism but to ignore everything else in a pursuit of baubles (which we all like to varying degrees) would lead to a very sterile, unfriendly and ultimately unhappy world.

You have to stop and smell the roses at some point;) .

I don't think there's anything wrong with owning stuff, i'm not going to sit here on my computer watching my TV and look at the magazine sitting on my bed for me to read later and complain about materialism. If you have money and can spend without worrying about how much things cost, enjoy that, but it should never be the be all end all of your existence. You should never think you are better than anyone else just because you have more stuff than them. Money is a part of life, working to make that money is a part of life, but they are not all life is.

ultimately it's about getting your priorities right. materialism is flawed because it places too high a price on things that don't bring you real happiness - cars, televisions etc etc. all I want from life is to be happy and so far, so good - I've seen plenty of the world and I've got my health. the happiest people I've ever met had very little: they just used it well. when you see people with four cars you've really got to wonder if they've got their life in order.

I think we're talking about materialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism) in the philosophical sense.

Pity. I like shiny new things

Dang, I remember when Saint Jade did this...That was slightly annoying.

It's stupid.

That's a very nihilistic viewpoint.
I’ve asked it once, and I’ll ask it again.

What is wrong with nihilism?

I get the feeling that I might have meant spirtiualism instead.

I get the feeling that I might have meant spirtiualism instead.

Are you dyslexic?

It's stupid.

Says you.

Originally posted by Undelia
I’ve asked it once, and I’ll ask it again.

What is wrong with nihilism?
Nothing really. Nihilism doesn't stop you being a good person. But why not spend some of your life ensuring you leave it a better place as well as accumulating wealth?

ultimately it's about getting your priorities right. materialism is flawed because it places too high a price on things that don't bring you real happiness - cars, televisions etc etc. all I want from life is to be happy and so far, so good - I've seen plenty of the world and I've got my health. the happiest people I've ever met had very little: they just used it well. when you see people with four cars you've really got to wonder if they've got their life in order.
People derive happiness from different activities. Now owning a hooker or car may not be true happiness in your almighty view, but to a Harvard Yankee, they coud bring him great happiness.

Spirtism?

::giggle:: Elle oh elle.

Those fucking table-floaters! Let's kill 'em!

:rolleyes:

The belief unsupported by evidence that there is a spirtual world.

And that's the definition of s p i r t i s m? How interesting.

Ringstar, you're odd. A bit of innocent fun at someone's misuse of a word, is just wrong. Yet poking fun at that same someone's typo isn't?

Yups. You're odd.