NationStates Jolt Archive

Is anyone else tired of Ebonics? I mean who in their right mind would call this a language? It sounds like the english language for people who don't want to spell words correctly. I mean can anyone honestly understand this line? “Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads.” As far as I can tell it has to do something with tilt, drugs, and chicken heads. I mean for crying out loud! I'll be honest with you people, if I ran a business and one of the person I was interviewing talked like this, I would not hire them. I really hope that English will become an offical language soon, and I hope that it's real english, not this Ebonics crap. If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to speak the same language that the majority speak. So what do yall think of ebonics?

Haha, i agree completely

The same as I think of the cockney accent and dialect; revoltingly low-class trash. Each to their own though. :)

I think it's refreshing. It makes English, which is otherwise such an ugly and boring language, a bit less so.

*sighs* And linguists everywhere start crying.

Whatever you want to call it, Ebonics, Black English, Urban English, it's a dialect OF English. It has it's own roots, rules, and uses and can be traced back to the languages used by slaves. Furthermore, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CORRECT ENGLISH! It doesn't exist! There's well over 1 billion English speakers on this planet and NO ONE, not even the Queen of England, can claim to hold the title of "proper" English.

Yesh!

The same as I think of the cockney accent and dialect; revoltingly low-class trash. Each to their own though. :)

Except when Michael Cain speaks it :cool:

I think it's refreshing. It makes English, which is otherwise such an ugly and boring language, a bit less so.

4dn w47 h4pn'd 2 1337 5p33k? 3bonik5 5hud b r3pl4cd wi7 7his...

I think it's refreshing. It makes English, which is otherwise such an ugly and boring language, a bit less so.

You can't take it seriously though, Hell most of the American population can't understand this ebonics crap. They might as well be speaking Chinese. While ebonics may work in the "ghetto", and for people who think being a "gangsta" is the life. In the real world you must speak normal english if you ever want to be able to get a job and to move up in the world.

Diversity of dialects/languages is in general good, makes stuff sound better, etc. You shouldn't have to speak the same way as the majority.

That said, Ebonics is one of those few culture/language things that is problematic, because its main purpose is to make its practicioners seem stupid. It entrenches racism by self-degradation. Stereotypical gay behavior works in a similar way.

Is anyone else tired of Ebonics? I mean who in their right mind would call this a language? It sounds like the english language for people who don't want to spell words correctly. I mean can anyone honestly understand this line? “Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads.” As far as I can tell it has to do something with tilt, drugs, and chicken heads. I mean for crying out loud! I'll be honest with you people, if I ran a business and one of the person I was interviewing talked like this, I would not hire them. I really hope that English will become an offical language soon, and I hope that it's real english, not this Ebonics crap. If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to speak the same language that the majority speak. So what do yall think of ebonics?

I cant believe you axed this.

I think it's refreshing. It makes English, which is otherwise such an ugly and boring language, a bit less so.


You should go and look at this thread http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=485659

There are words there that will write in fire across your soul

You can't take it seriously though, Hell most of the American population can't understand this ebonics crap. They might as well be speaking Chinese. While ebonics may work in the "ghetto", and for people who think being a "gangsta" is the life. In the real world you must speak normal english if you ever want to be able to get a job and to move up in the world.

So there are people who speak "gangsta" at job interviews? Non-rap-related job interviews? I think such behavior is significantly rarer than you seem to think.

*sighs* And linguists everywhere start crying.

Whatever you want to call it, Ebonics, Black English, Urban English, it's a dialect OF English. It has it's own roots, rules, and uses and can be traced back to the languages used by slaves. Furthermore, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CORRECT ENGLISH! It doesn't exist! There's well over 1 billion English speakers on this planet and NO ONE, not even the Queen of England, can claim to hold the title of "proper" English.

Yesh!

Doesn't stop British people from trying to make that claim. At least when the British talk, you can understand them. Also, I doubt that people actually spoke like this before the 70's. I think "ebonics" was created as a way to stick it to the "man".

You can't take it seriously though, Hell most of the American population can't understand this ebonics crap. They might as well be speaking Chinese. While ebonics may work in the "ghetto", and for people who think being a "gangsta" is the life. In the real world you must speak normal english if you ever want to be able to get a job and to move up in the world.
And what part of the US are you from?

So there are people who speak "gangsta" at job interviews? Non-rap-related job interviews? I think such behavior is significantly rarer than you seem to think.

Ehh, actually when my dad used to work for the railroad, he was assigned to hire some new shop people. There was about 20 blacks, and 30 whites. the older black people spoke english, and there was 5 young guys that spoke "ebonics". My dad hired the older guys over the younger guys. His reason, is that you need to have a clear line of communication in the engine shop, you can't be speaking a language that no one else can understand.

And what part of the US are you from?

The South.

The same as I think of the cockney accent and dialect; revoltingly low-class trash. Each to their own though. :)

Cockney is amazing. I didn't think much about it, untill auditions for My Fair Lady started. Now I love it.

Doesn't stop British people from trying to make that claim. At least when the British talk, you can understand them. Also, I doubt that people actually spoke like this before the 70's. I think "ebonics" was created as a way to stick it to the "man".
And any serious linquist would laugh at them. The Brits can't even agree what dialect of theirs is proper English (and if you can understand Cockney, please translate for me, I can't).

And yes, it does have its roots back in the creaols spoken by the children of slaves. It's actually rather facinating.

And any serious linquist would laugh at them. The Brits can't even agree what dialect of theirs is proper English (and if you can understand Cockney, please translate for me, I can't).

And yes, it does have its roots back in the creaols spoken by the children of slaves. It's actually rather facinating.

Uh huh, please provide a netural source stating that ebonics was used during the slave days.

Cockney is amazing. I didn't think much about it, untill auditions for My Fair Lady started. Now I love it.
Meh, I struggle to understand it at times. I can understand a thick Scottish accent better than it. And some of the lingo is just outlandish. Like I said, to each their own.

Uh huh, please provide a netural source stating that ebonics was used during the slave days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

You should go and look at this thread http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=485659

There are words there that will write in fire across your soul

As I wrote in that very thread, "Funnily, I can think of no Anglophone author who affects me all that significantly. English being such an ugly language probably has to do with it."

So, no fire. No matter that you made the word bold. Only a weary "att han ens orkar försöka föneka Engelskans inneboende, ska vi säga, skönhetsbrist."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

Wiki doesn't count, it can be edited by anyone on the net.

You can't take it seriously though... (... snip ...)

Yes, I can. Please refrain from telling me what I can and cannot do.

Yes, I can. Please refrain from telling me what I can and cannot do.

ok, to rephrase I can't take it seriously.

ok, to rephrase I can't take it seriously.
And no one else should take it seriously...

ok, to rephrase I can't take it seriously.

That is your problem. No one else's.

The South.
And you think YOU speak Standard English? Hell, I can't understand the southern drawl and twang half the time.

Why don't you stop with all of them y'all's, and trying to say a's in new and interesting ways (not to mention the suthr'n tendency to either remove half the syllables or add extras on a whim). I mean, you hear that drawl and the first thing that comes to mind is a red necked yokel.

Why don't you learn proper English like those from the Western states?




See? You always have a funny accent to someone from somewhere else. There is no Standard English and to claim that not only there is one, but you speak it, is the height of arrogance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

Yes.

"Yo ma nigga foo, massa's been crackin' da shiz whip on ma brudda!"

...Yeah. No. Stab.

Wiki doesn't count, it can be edited by anyone on the net.

And thus it is. Same reason the free market works: enough people hammering away and the right course wins out.

Why don't you learn proper English like those from the Western states.

There is only one proper English, and that is her Majesty's "Received Pronunciation."

As I wrote in that very thread, "Funnily, I can think of no Anglophone author who affects me all that significantly. English being such an ugly language probably has to do with it."

So, no fire. No matter that you made the word bold. Only a weary "att han ens orkar försöka föneka Engelskans inneboende, ska vi säga, skönhetsbrist."
Translations please...or at least tell me which language it is so I can Babelfish it?

And you think YOU speak Standard English? Hell, I can't understand the southern drawl and twang half the time.

Why don't you stop with all of them y'all's, and trying to say a's in new and interesting ways (not to mention the suthr'n tendency to either remove half the syllables or add extras on a whim). I mean, you hear that drawl and the first thing that comes to mind is a red necked yokel.

Why don't you learn proper English like those from the Western states?




See? You always have a funny accent to someone from somewhere else. There is no Standard English and to claim that not only there is one, but you speak it, is the height of arrogance.


Actually, I have a very shallow Southern accent. Of course my dad was from New York, so I wasn't exposed to the Southern Accent as much. Also, I do speak standard english, I just use yall because, well hey, it's the South. Comon though, about 100% of what I type you can understand. Please translate this sentance for me.

"She BIN had dat han'-made dress"

Actually, I have a very shallow Southern accent. Of course my dad was from New York, so I wasn't exposed to the Southern Accent as much. Also, I do speak standard english, I just use yall because, well hey, it's the South. Comon though, about 100% of what I type you can understand. Please translate this sentance for me.

"She BIN had dat han'-made dress"
Wha the hell does typing have to do with this? I have a pretty heavy Dutch dialect, but that doesn't mean I can't write the language properly.

Wha the hell does typing have to do with this? I have a pretty heavy Dutch dialect, but that doesn't mean I can't write the language properly.

Usually, people type the way they speak. Trust me, I know...

Hahah, anyone interested in a laugh go to Limewire or some other software and download "Ebonics Airways" or it may be caleld Pre-Flight Checklist by Shirley Q. Liquor, hahah so funny.

Translations please...or at least tell me which language it is so I can Babelfish it?

It should not be very hard for you to guess what language it is, and, no, Babelfish doesn't cover it. Anyhow, translation: "that he should even have the energy to try to deny the inherent, shall we say, lack of beauty of English."

Writing the translation makes the cumbersome nature of English even more apparent due to the required rearranging of word order and adding of prepositions and marks of infinitive. :\

Wiki doesn't count, it can be edited by anyone on the net.
Fine, fine...

2. HISTORY AND ORIGINS OF EBONICS
'African-American Vernacular English' (AAVE), 'African Language Systems', 'Pan African Communication Behaviors', 'Black Dialect', 'Noble Language of the Ghetto' -these and other terms have been used over the generations to name and describe the unique language varieties spoken by generations of African Americans. A few of these terms were cited by the African-American Task Force when they submitted 'A report and Recommendations' to the OPS School Board. Indeed, some were written into the Board's motion (rationale point 1). Because the term Ebonics has been so closely associated with the OPS resolution and because African-American Language (AAL) is so widely used among linguists, these two terms will be the ones most often used in this discussion. A third term, community language, is a generic term used to describe non Standard American English (SAE) languages spoken by the hundreds of ethnic groups who historically and currently make up the US and more particularly California's schoolchildren. Examples of California's community languages are Korean, Tagalog, Spanish, Hmong, and varieties of English, including Ebonics. My preference is to put a positive spin on languages people use rather than a negative or limited spin such as 'Limited English Proficient (LEP)'.

Hoffman (1998) provides a useful outline for studying the second half of the twentieth-century policy dialogue about Ebonics. He divides his discussion into three 'incarnations' each of which emerges from African-American community advocacy or activism. The first incarnation occurred during the Civil Rights struggles of the 1960s. Hoffman had a direct role in that incarnation as a linguistics research assistant. Identification by linguists of distinct language patterns among African Americans was followed by discussion of poor school performance among AAL-speaking children. The poor school performance was seen in the light of the data gathered by the linguists which led naturally to the conclusion that '... linguistic interference [added] another subtler problem to pupils' more obvious environmental and economic problems' (Hoffman, 1998: 77). In other words, language was added to the economic, social, and cultural 'disadvantages' of African-American children. Be it one or a combination of these factors, this deficit or 'language as problem orientation' (Ruiz, 1984) anchored the thinking and explanations for the poor school performance of African-American schoolchildren.

Hoffman's second incarnation centers upon the successful lawsuit by African-American Parents in Ann Arbor, Michigan (1979). Without doubt, the Oakland Task Force and School Board were referring to the Ann Arbor case when they coined rationale point 5 of the resolution (Cook, 1999). More than accident and serendipity couple this lawsuit and the resolution with the Lau decision (1974). In Lau, the Supreme Court ruled that the civil-rights of students were being violated when schools made no attempt to teach them in a language that was comprehensible to them. The US Office of Civil Rights Remedies that followed the decision, and the momentum of bilingual education programs of the late 1970s and early 1980s, increased the awareness and search for meaningful and effective practices for educating community language speakers.

Add to this political, judicial, and educational context the fact that linguists during the late 1960s and through the 1970s, changed their thinking about the evolution and status of AAL (cf. Christopherson, 1953; Dillard, 1975; Stewart, 1967a, 1967b, 1971). The new research and outlook were conclusive in saying that rather than being a creole that drew only from the English vernaculars of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, AAL was clearly and distinctly shaped and influenced by languages brought from West Africa (see section 3) (rationale point 3 and resolution point 2). During the Ann Arbor trial, linguistics scholars presented testimony that Ebonics was a language like any other and not a vulgar corruption or vernacular distortion of Standard American English (SAE). Parents of Ebonics-speaking children used these new discoveries by linguists to urge that teachers be aware and understand the language competencies of their children and to use those competencies as a bridge to teach SAE to the children (Cook, 1999; DeFrantz, 1995). Later, I will cite a few examples of schools and teachers who followed this strategy. Language biases die hard, however, even among educators.

Hoffman's third incarnation is the Oakland School Board's Resolution. While his work outlines 33 years of history, thereby developing a context for the (OPS) resolution, Hoffman does not pretend to cover the full history of the research and debate over Ebonics. A proper understanding of the resolution comes only from a knowledge of the history and evolution of AAL. Without that knowledge, the resolution appears to be a hair-brained idea with no precedent or context. As mentioned, the impression created by the media was that the resolution was a scheme with no history, origin, or genesis. I hope to correct this misrepresentation in the following paragraphs.

In his Introduction to Perspectives on Black English, Dillard (1975) uses several re-prints of scholarly works and articles that date back to the last century. He makes reference to non-English European languages spoken in the colonies and the early days of the US and how these languages combined with features of West African languages to form 'Black Spanish', 'Black French', and 'Black Dutch' (rationale point 2 and resolution point 1).

He also puts a distinctive spin on contributions of AAL to SAE by demonstrating that 'Insofar as the slaves had influence on the children of the master caste [thereby serving as the children's language models], their language varieties must have influenced language varieties of the New World' (p. 20). Hence, for Dillard, while forms and varieties of English became the lingua franca of Africans, so too those varieties of English spoken by Americans were influenced by the languages of Africans and their descendants.

In a somewhat different vein, the dominant interpretation of the history of Ebonics among linguists has undergone radical change in the last 35 years. For a long time, linguists believed that AAL was a derivative of British dialects of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. That idea has given way to the notion that the roots of modern Ebonics reach also to Africa. As early as the 1950s, Christopherson (1953) was leading the way in this regard. Christopherson was followed by others who corroborated that pidginization of African and European languages was occurring in the earliest days of the slave trade. This is not at all surprising given that pidginization would be expected anytime two languages come in contact -- elements of both languages contributing to the pidgin. In retrospect, then, it seems odd that earlier researchers and analysts would argue that this would not apply to African/European (English) language contact in the New World -- as though all over the world and throughout history when two or more languages came in contact, they contributed to a pidgin and subsequently, in most cases, to a creole except for English and African languages (see Romaine, 1994: 179).

I believe four points make for a compelling argument that Ebonics and the influence of African languages on New World languages, including English, are inescapable and that without them, the evolution of languages in the New World cannot be clearly explained or understood. In the first place,

... there are many facets of culture and linguistic history which are and should be obvious. Some of these are:

Languages of Africans in Diaspora are all Africanized languages [emphasis in original].
Colonial languages are used to control and reduce the functioning of the cultures of the colonized.
African languages do not belong to Indo-European languages. The phonological features, syntactical features and lexical features [sic], are different from the features of English, Spanish, French; Dutch, German, and Portuguese. (DeFrantz, 1995: 57)
Secondly, as already mentioned, abundant historical and linguistic evidence points to the presence of 'Black Spanish', 'Black French', and 'Black Dutch'. Certainly, there must have been -- and there still is --a 'Black English' or an Africanized English.

Next, it would be the rarest of all cases for speakers of a language to come in contact with speakers of another language and totally shift from their L1 to an L2. It is equally absurd to conclude that when two languages are in contact, language A is in no way influenced by language B and vice versa. English-speaking Americans living in San Diego and Spanish-speaking Mexicans living in Tijuana, for instance, use language that is colored by their border experiences and is thereby different from the English spoken in Madison, Wisconsin or the Spanish spoken in Cuernavaca, Morelos, Mexico.

The final point is one touched on earlier. Pidgins were evolving from African and European languages in the earliest days of the slave trade (Dillard, 1975; Stewart, 1967b). Linguists use two different lines of reason to arrive at this conclusion. One is based on research of travel commentaries written during the times. Europeans logged their observations of the communication patterns and systems as they traded and explored the West African Coast (Dillard, 1975). The second perspective is represented in the following observation.

One possible explanation why this kind of pidginized English was so widespread in the New World, with widely separated varieties resembling each other in so many ways, is that it did not originate in the New World as isolated and accidentally similar instances of random pidginization, but rather originated as a lingua franca in the trade centers and slave factories of the West African Coast. (Stewart, 1967: 229)

Not all scholarly analysis has given credence or status to AAL, however. Some past experts have written about the community language of African Americans in patronizing and condescending terms. Note in the following quote how language is coupled with 'intellectual caliber'. 'The humor and naivete [change in original] of the Negro are features which must not be overlooked' in gauging his intellectual caliber and timbre; much of his talk is baby-talk, of an exceedingly attractive sort to those to the manner born; he deals in hyperbole, in rhythm, in picture-words, like the poet ...' (Harrison (1884) in Dillard, 1975: 144). This quotation not only plays to the lengthy history of the discussion about AAL, but also tells us that the negative reactions and attitudes that greeted the OPS resolution (many coming from SAE-speaking African Americans) are not new.

The point here is that Ebonics is a legitimate, rule-governed language variety with history and roots in African and European traditions and languages (Labov, 1972; Rickford, 1996). In the next section, we will see that knowledge of how languages are acquired and awareness of the language resources of Ebonics-speaking children can help teachers more effectively serve those children. Writing in the same year as ESEA Title VII, the first federal Bilingual Education Act passed by the federal government, Stewart (1968 in Dillard, 1975), takes a step in this direction by saying,

For the teacher, this means that [differences in language usage among African-American students] should not be ascribed to greater carelessness, laziness or stupidity on the part of Negroes, but rather should be treated as what they really are -- language patterns which have been in existence for generations and which their present users have acquired, from parent and peer, through a perfectly normal kind of language-learning process. (p. 234) (rationale point 3)

Croghan, M (2000).History, linguistic theory, California's CLAD, and the Oakland Public Schools resolution on ebonics: What are the connections?. World Englishes. 19, 73-88.

Any good book on language history will go into more depth.

There is only one proper English, and that is her Majesty's "Received Pronunciation."
To her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II of the UK...

NUTS!

;)

"She BIN had dat han'-made dress"
She has had that hand made dress (for a long time) [and still has it].

It's a logical language, it is also consistant. It falls well within the boundries of a dialect, just because you don't like it or can't understand it doesn't make it less of one.

Usually, people type the way they speak. Trust me, I know...

So, how many people do you know who speak 1337? A lot of the way people type can change from the way they speak. It may be the same sounded out (r = are, u = you), but that doesn't mean its what they're saying. The letter u and you have different meanings, not that people distinguish when typing, There is no need then.

To her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II of the UK...

NUTS!

;)

That's "Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith," to you, common expatriated colonist! :p

Actually, I have a very shallow Southern accent. Of course my dad was from New York, so I wasn't exposed to the Southern Accent as much. Also, I do speak standard english, I just use yall because, well hey, it's the South. Comon though, about 100% of what I type you can understand. Please translate this sentance for me.

"She BIN had dat han'-made dress"

She had that hand made dress.

It's easier than many types of normal web-lingo, actually.

That's "Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith," to you, common expatriated colonist! :p
Us Americans ain't suppos'd ta know the whole hoity-toity thing. ;)

I'll formally appologise to the first Brit I run across. Considering said Brit will probably be a Welshman I know, he'll probably be laughing his ass off, but I WILL appologise. :D

So, how many people do you know who speak 1337? A lot of the way people type can change from the way they speak. It may be the same sounded out (r = are, u = you), but that doesn't mean its what they're saying. The letter u and you have different meanings, not that people distinguish when typing, There is no need then.

I said usually, usually being the key word. As for "leet", I hate it too. No one can understand that crap, and God, how hard can it be to type You, and Are, and Sorry. If you want to speak "ebonics" fine, but don't be suprise if no one takes you seriously, or if they think you can't speak english. Like I said, if I'm interviewing someone for the job, and they speak "ebonics" then they're not going to get hired.

She has had that hand made dress (for a long time) [and still has it].

It's a logical language, it is also consistant. It falls well within the boundries of a dialect, just because you don't like it or can't understand it doesn't make it less of one.

Trust me, this is not logical. “Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads."

Us Americans ain't suppos'd ta know the whole hoity-toity thing. ;)

Quite, which makes the bitching by someone from the US on any matter pertaining to the English language quite droll indeed. :D

I'll formally appologise to the first Brit I run across. Considering said Brit will probably be a Welshman I know, he'll probably be laughing his ass off, but I WILL appologise. :D

Welsh, you say? I shouldn't lower myself, were I you, but then I recall what you are, rendering it less peculiar. ;)

Trust me, this is not logical. “Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads."

And they say this in job interviews?

Also, I'm not an expert, but this doesn't sound like proper Ebonics. More like some southern variant, probably not even related.

this was posted on a site I stumbled across recently.

" ere wtf r u duin disin all da chavs wen u kno u cnt du it 2 r faces cuz u wud jest get twated all over the fukin place .... nd am nt bein funny but i do liv in a decent ouse nd am in top sets 4 mst fingz so nt all chavz are fik shitz lyk u mek uz out 2 be nd u cnt be tht cleva ur self cuz ur weystin ur lyf sat in front ov a computa screen mekin this shitty websyt nd on ya chav ov d munf payg it ses oh luck der drinkin buckki wat u want us du sit dwn on sum park bench n bring out d champagne frm r backpokets dnt fink so luvi cuz im sure u dnt sit ther drinkin stuf dats costs lyk a fiver wen u cn buy cheap shit lyk cider nd bukki nd get pissed easier enyweyz y wud u bova ? "

That led me to search for what a "chav" was. And by some of the definitions I got, the type above sounds very similar to the white wanna be ghetto thugs we have here in the U.S. I also learnt about the Burberry name clothing over on the UK.

another one .. have no clue what the hell they are saying ..

Oi blood listen up ryt no waita minute itz RIGHT init cz u wil probz sai i
need t learn t spel cz u gt nowt beta t fkin sai ! neway dis iz my opinion n
u wont lyk it bt i dnt giva fuk!! reet wt is ur basic problem wit chavz? ye
ye ok thy hang around th streetz, thy drink underage n smash up bus shelters
bt ow exsactly duz dis effect u? im nt a dat mch a chav me self bt i tink
dey safe n u shunt b disin em !! thy r ppl 2, n u dnt c chavz makin a
million fkd up websyts 4 u fkin gimps !! dya no y u made dis websyt, i do cz
u gt nawt beta t do wit ur fkin tym u sad cuntz ! i think ur rli pathetic so
y dnt u js stop! man we dnt lyk u naaa we CART FKIN STAND U bt we dnt
steriotype u cz we nt gay lyk uze, u no wt, itz lyk if sum1 wore a bryt
yello pokadot t shirt or sumit every1 teks d piss outa it 4 lyk 3 days den u
still goin at it afta about a year, ppl get rli bored of it, n it bcumz old,
every1 js thinkz ur a fkin goon witch u r n c u no itz tru so dnt b denyin
ne shit ! i rli carnt fkin stand u ya no n o u myt sai ya dnt care bt ya
shud cz uve made so meny ppl hate u, n u reli diserve it, ule probz b ded at
xmas cz u js letin ppl get abuse 4 no reason, if dey wna b chavz den u carnt
sai u carnt no shit t em u fkin guuvis ! N u gt our mucik rong m8, we lyk
niche n hapi hardcore probz sumit u rli dnt no bout !! itz up t dem js lyk
it wo up t u t mek diz tarded websyt, n t slaughter chikenz, n wear al your
def makeup, n wear fk off shoez wit nails n shit in em! ur freaks !! chavz
iz pure quality m8, u beta belive it cz 1 day u gna get dun it! i ope u go t
th mill on th fkin rong nyt u get braid it my child! i bet ur fraid t leave
ur own house nw ainchoo haha, itz reli wrong wt ure doin n u js broadcastin
shat bout chavz cross th nation, thr r chavz everywer, u carnt change dat,
so y r u tryin t?!? CHAVZ R SIK THY RULE c dey braitainz rulin clas naw,
awww poor gothy wothy r u jelous dat ppl dnt giv u freakz as mch atention
nw?! u a straite shot 4 shizzle m8 !! N u no sum1 on ere sed as if uve neva
gt drunk∑ n den u sed im 33 LMFAO I rli dnt fink u shud ryt ur personal shit
on ere cz if I wo 33 n made a websyt lyk diz Id hide ma fkin ugly bum chin
face 4lyf init, notice ow u onli anserd sum ov d commentz 2, wow man did u
go t d shop or sumit?!? U shud b proud m8 u actauli gt of ur lazy grebo ass
datz fkin surprising or mebi u js **** fink ov awt t sai cz u lost 4 wrdz n
u no dey ryt aight? burn in ell **** inabit nic CHAV PRIDE !!

And they say this in job interviews?

Also, I'm not an expert, but this doesn't sound like proper Ebonics. More like some southern variant, probably not even related.

Ahh trust me, it's ebonics.

this was posted on a site I stumbled across recently.

" ere wtf r u duin disin all da chavs wen u kno u cnt du it 2 r faces cuz u wud jest get twated all over the fukin place .... nd am nt bein funny but i do liv in a decent ouse nd am in top sets 4 mst fingz so nt all chavz are fik shitz lyk u mek uz out 2 be nd u cnt be tht cleva ur self cuz ur weystin ur lyf sat in front ov a computa screen mekin this shitty websyt nd on ya chav ov d munf payg it ses oh luck der drinkin buckki wat u want us du sit dwn on sum park bench n bring out d champagne frm r backpokets dnt fink so luvi cuz im sure u dnt sit ther drinkin stuf dats costs lyk a fiver wen u cn buy cheap shit lyk cider nd bukki nd get pissed easier enyweyz y wud u bova ? "

That led me to search for what a "chav" was. And by some of the definitions I got, the type above sounds very similar to the white wanna be ghetto thugs we have here in the U.S. I also learnt about the Burberry name clothing over on the UK.
They're essentially wiggers. Britain's rising under-class, and white trash par excellence.

people speaking like that wonder why they can't get ahead - must be collective brain fart for the argot used

Trust me, this is not logical. “Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads."
Yes, it is. It is logically consistant within the dialect. It doesn't make stuff up (no more than other dialects of English does). It follows the rules of the dialect.

Hell, if you think about it, ENGLISH doesn't make a lot of logical sense. If I switched to Japanese, you'd be hard pressed to find the logic in that (especially as Japanese likes dropping subjects). Fass could point out the differences between Swedish and English as well.

It's not that YOU can't find the logic behind it, it's there and it functions to provide communication between speakers of that particular dialect. In other words, it serves the purpose of what a language is supposed to do.

They're essentially wiggers. Britain's rising under-class, and white trash par excellence.

Have you seen little Britain? With the chav girl, what's her name? I love her.

Edit:

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgfp1553.jpg

They're essentially wiggers. Britain's rising under-class, and white trash par excellence.


read the other rant i added to my post, and tell me if you can understand wtf they are saying

read the other rant i added to my post, and tell me if you can understand wtf they are saying
Perfectly well. Not that it makes much sense, but that's sort of a given.

Yes, it is. It is logically consistant within the dialect. It doesn't make stuff up (no more than other dialects of English does). It follows the rules of the dialect.

Hell, if you think about it, ENGLISH doesn't make a lot of logical sense. If I switched to Japanese, you'd be hard pressed to find the logic in that (especially as Japanese likes dropping subjects). Fass could point out the differences between Swedish and English as well.

It's not that YOU can't find the logic behind it, it's there and it functions to provide communication between speakers of that particular dialect. In other words, it serves the purpose of what a language is supposed to do.

No, Japanese has logic behind it, at least with Japanese there's a set of rules, and it took years for the language to develop. As far as I can understand Ebonics is just a language that uses "slangs" has no set rules, and probably developed in the 60's.

Have you seen little Britain? With the chav girl, what's her name? I love her.

Edit:

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgfp1553.jpg
Hah, yes I have seen bits of it. Not much though. Britain's bright, shining future generation. :)

PS: For those who wanna see what Chav music is like, try Lady Sovereign. See if you can get a word of it. :)

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgfp1553.jpg

Ahhh my eyes, they burn!

No, Japanese has logic behind it, at least with Japanese there's a set of rules, and it took years for the language to develop. As far as I can understand Ebonics is just a language that uses "slangs" has no set rules, and probably developed in the 60's.
Did you even bother to read what I posted?

It's a devloped creol that goes back to before the US was a nation. It has changed, yes, but so had English. We don't speak like Ben Franklin and George Washington, English has also changed.

But, yes, it does have a logic and it does follow its own rules. the Wiki article was pretty well written you know.

Hah, yes I have seen bits of it. Not much though. Britain's bright, shining future generation. :)

Oh, we had this poster in English class of group of punk rockers and skin heads and other generally chavish persons draped in a British flag and "Britannia Rule the Waves" floating above them. I actually think the poster originated as part of Blair's "Cool Britannia" campaigns from a few years back. It was our Canadian teacher's way of letting us know that it didn't matter all that much that our English wasn't "perfect" - neither was that of most British people.

Oh, we had this poster in English class of group of punk rockers and skin heads and other generally chavish persons draped in a British flag and "Britannia Rule the Waves" floating above them. I actually think the poster originated as part of Blair's "Cool Britannia" campaigns from a few years back. It was our Canadian teacher's way of letting us know that it didn't matter all that much that our English wasn't "perfect" - neither was that of most British people.
Which is sort of sad. I doubt most Swedes suffer from an inability to speak their own language. Still, the whole Chav phenomenon remains amusing. :)

Ahhh my eyes, they burn!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFexBgpZxFY&search=vicky%20pollard

Hilarious!

Which is sort of sad. I doubt most Swedes suffer from an inability to speak their own language.

You'd be surprised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPz7xgvCzGM&search=vicky%20pollard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFexBgpZxFY&search=vicky%20pollard

Hilarious!

*in Austin Powers voice* She's a man baby!

Seriously though she does sound like a man, she needs to slow down though.

*in Austin Powers voice* She's a man baby!

Seriously though she does sound like a man, and I could not understand her.
Well, there you have how chavs speak. And not just chavs...

Here is Lady Sovereign:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB9ZoT2EsRo&search=Lady%20Sovereign
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-VD91eEDz0&search=Lady%20Sovereign

*in Austin Powers voice* She's a man baby!

Seriously though she does sound like a man, she needs to slow down though.

It's a man dressed as a woman. She's not at all hard to understand once you're used to it.

It's a man dressed as a woman. She's not at all hard to understand once you're used to it.
Indeed, it's not that hard at all. Well, most of the time.

Here is Lady Sovereign:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB9ZoT2EsRo&search=Lady%20Sovereign
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-VD91eEDz0&search=Lady%20Sovereign

That's amazing!

Which is sort of sad. I doubt most Swedes suffer from an inability to speak their own language.
I've yet to run into anyone who suffers from an inability to speak their own language (baring those people who have a disability).

That's amazing!
I'm not too sure if it's a parody of the chav culture, or if she's part of it. Try listen to "Sad ass strippa" if you can find it...so very chav.

Wiki doesn't count, it can be edited by anyone on the net.

Actually, I would like to refute that statement:
http://news.com.com/Study+Wikipedia+as+accurate+as+Britannica/2100-1038_3-5997332.html

Well, there you have how chavs speak. And not just chavs...

Here is Lady Sovereign:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB9ZoT2EsRo&search=Lady%20Sovereign
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-VD91eEDz0&search=Lady%20Sovereign


She's like a white version of Da Brat.

She's like a white version of Da Brat.
Essentially, yes. Or even a white Missy Elliot. From Britain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBaEPXoMOhU&search=Lady%20Sovereign

Is anyone else tired of Ebonics? I mean who in their right mind would call this a language? It sounds like the english language for people who don't want to spell words correctly. I mean can anyone honestly understand this line? “Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads.” As far as I can tell it has to do something with tilt, drugs, and chicken heads. I mean for crying out loud! I'll be honest with you people, if I ran a business and one of the person I was interviewing talked like this, I would not hire them. I really hope that English will become an offical language soon, and I hope that it's real english, not this Ebonics crap. If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to speak the same language that the majority speak. So what do yall think of ebonics?
Now you know how the british feel about American English

Wiki doesn't count, it can be edited by anyone on the net.

Not really, and neither can it's sources, go there.

Not really, and neither can it's sources, go there.

I agree. It seems to be a common misconception people have about Wikipedia. I admit, I used to feel the same way, but after having read that article, I felt a lot better about trusting it. Not to mention that article was written in December of 2005--Wikipedia has taken many more measures since then to ensure the accuracy of its articles.

In New Zealand (Where I live) Maoris have their own dialect as well, its even more annoying than ebonics.

"AEAEAEAE check out my new car oul!"

"o bro that cost bloody heaps aye!"

I'm not too sure if it's a parody of the chav culture, or if she's part of it. Try listen to "Sad ass strippa" if you can find it...so very chav.

I'm trying to find the Little Britain sketch with the transvestite when he's at the dentist and he goes "But I don't have testiclé! Well, maybe little Lady's testiclé..." Hyper-correction funniness. Alas, elusive.

In New Zealand (Where I live) Maoris have their own dialect as well, its even more annoying than ebonics.

"AEAEAEAE check out my new car oul!"

"o bro that cost bloody heaps aye!"


::shrugs:: It's all just a matter of opinion, really.

I, wholeheartedly, agree. I CANNOT stand it; and, people label me as racist because of it. :mad:

I cant believe you axed this.
I'm hoping that was ironic.

I, wholeheartedly, agree. I CANNOT stand it; and, people label me as racist because of it. :mad:
I'd lable you as linquistically biased.

Of course, so are most people with certain dialects having more "worth" than their couins. It really gets out of hand in EFL situations.

I'm trying to find the Little Britain sketch with the transvestite when he's at the dentist and he goes "But I don't have testiclé! Well, maybe little Lady's testiclé..." Hyper-correction funniness. Alas, elusive.
Do post it if you find it.

I'd lable you as linquistically biased.

Of course, so are most people with certain dialects having more "worth" than their couins. It really gets out of hand in EFL situations.


Sue me, I'm an American who loves RP English.

Sue me, I'm an American who loves RP English.
Which, actually, isn't really even spoken.

Which, actually, isn't really even spoken.


I know :( The BBC let down their standards.

I, wholeheartedly, agree. I CANNOT stand it; and, people label me as racist because of it. :mad:

I wouldn't say that you are racist, but when ignorant things such as: "If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to speak the same language that the majority speak," are said, can you guess who makes up the majority of America? White people.

And who make up the rest? Minorities.

To generalize, usually minorities speak "ebonics," and within the minorities, it's usually black people. I mean, look at the name the dialect is tagged with--> ebonics: ebony phonics.

People thus cannot help it, and may peg you as a "racist" when you rant and rave about how much you hate ebonics. To many people, your hatred of the dialect is a direct and blatant indication of your hatred of the people.

Of course, this is potentially fallacious; it may not necessarily be so. People should assume such things. But, it's human nature, what can you do? Besides, you shouldn't care about labels. Labels are just what they are...labels, and nothing more.

I'm hoping that was ironic.

Hopefully, indeed.

I wouldn't say that you are racist, but when ignorant things such as: "If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to speak the same language that the majority speak," are said, can you guess who makes up the majority of America? White people.

And who make up the rest? Minorities.

To generalize, usually minorities speak "ebonics," and within the minorities, it's usually black people. I mean, look at the name the dialect is tagged with--> ebonics: ebony phonics.

People thus cannot help it, and may peg you as a "racist" when you rant and rave about how much you hate ebonics. To many people, your hatred of the dialect is a direct and blatant indication of your hatred of the people.

Of course, this is potentially fallacious; it may not necessarily be so. People should assume such things. But, it's human nature, what can you do? Besides, you shouldn't care about labels. Labels are just what they are...labels, and nothing more.


There is a line, though: I do not hate African Americans, Asian-Americans, or, Hispanic individuals because of skin pigment; moreover, I, truly, am a stickler for proper English. If it were my decision, then, we would all be conversing in RP. ;)

Ebonics is difficult to understand, plain and simple. I don't like it because it uses incorrect grammar, sounds uneducated, and is difficult to understand; it is simply not a desirable thing for one speaker of a particular language to be unable to understand another speaker in common conversation...Ebonics is just plain hard to understand.

Poor language reflects poorly on the speaker regardless of their actual intelligence; it is a disadvantage because the ability to clearly put actions in to words is vital to virtually everything in society.

I, truly, am a stickler for proper English. If it were my decision, then, we would all be conversing in RP. ;)
Ain't no such animal as proper English.

Do post it if you find it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPqULEGY5IM&search=little%20britain

Failed, but Daffyd is always hilarious. Amd we get to hear "Welsh" accents.

Ebonics is difficult to understand, plain and simple. I don't like it because it uses incorrect grammar, sounds uneducated, and is difficult to understand; it is simply not a desirable thing for one speaker of a particular language to be unable to understand another speaker in common conversation...Ebonics is just plain hard to understand.

Poor language reflects poorly on the speaker regardless of their actual intelligence; it is a disadvantage because the ability to clearly put actions in to words is vital to virtually everything in society.
*sighs* And I bet if we met in real life you may have a hard time understanding me if I get excited and switch to speaking with a very broad Nevadan accent. Nor could you probably understand some of the other English dialects spoken around the world (there's a place in New England whose dialect has been frozen in time and left on its own so much that it's almost another language).

Ebonics doesn't have bad grammar, it has grammar that works for it, just as other English dialects do, including yours.

Language is, fundamentally, about communicating ideas; thence, peoples need to understand each other, in order to communicate said ideas.



Qjbdf 895gf, dfjgdfjkghdf: e5680dfgm sdghsiurktg.


I know what I meant by that; do you?


Everytime I hear ebonics, -- and the name is deceptive, by the way, for every african-american person does not speak it -- I must struggle to decipher a single word!

Language is, fundamentally, about communicating ideas; thence, peoples need to understand each other, in order to communicate said ideas.
Indeed, however you then make the fallacy of assuming that people MUST communicate to you in YOUR language/dialect.

That is arrogance. It is also arrogance to assume that YOURS (or whatever you chose) is the proper mode.

Qjbdf 895gf, dfjgdfjkghdf: e5680dfgm sdghsiurktg.
すみません、どこでもいいピクピク分かりません。

I know what I meant by that; do you?
日本語も分かりますか？

Everytime I hear ebonics, -- and the name is deceptive, by the way, for every african-american person does not speak it -- I must struggle to decipher a single word!
YOU struggle, a speaker of it does not. Again, you assume that they must meet you on YOUR own lingustic ground, that somehow their dialect is not worthy of your time to master.

Come to Japan and try that, the results would be eye opening for you I'm sure.

*sighs* And I bet if we met in real life you may have a hard time understanding me if I get excited and switch to speaking with a very broad Nevadan accent. Nor could you probably understand some of the other English dialects spoken around the world (there's a place in New England whose dialect has been frozen in time and left on its own so much that it's almost another language).

People who speak isolated dialects are disadvantaged because they're hard to understand and relate with; however, some are worse than others and personally I find Ebonics to be the hardest to understand of all but the most isolated dialects in the US...it's just plain difficult, and that's the main problem I have with it and other similarly difficult to understand dialects spoken by any group.

Ebonics doesn't have bad grammar, it has grammar that works for it, just as other English dialects do, including yours.

It has bad grammar when put in to the standard English used as a modicum of conversation and expression in business or similar fields. A person who can't use the basic proper grammar of standard English will be disadvantaged because it implies a lack of education and inability to communicate understandably.

That grammar and pronunciation is very hard to understand, and a lot of people in a lot of places have trouble understanding it. Clear communication is vital for success in any field, so being unable to express yourself clearly will compromise your ability to succeed in anything you do. I personally have a Standard American accent...it's easy to understand but immediately recognizable anywhere in the US.

Language is, fundamentally, about communicating ideas; thence, peoples need to understand each other, in order to communicate said ideas.



Qjbdf 895gf, dfjgdfjkghdf: e5680dfgm sdghsiurktg.


I know what I meant by that; do you?


Everytime I hear ebonics, -- and the name is deceptive, by the way, for every african-american person does not speak it -- I must struggle to decipher a single word!

True, language is about communicating ideas. However, if a group of people are speaking a certain dialect/language to one another--excluding you--and they are able to understand one another, then why should it matter to you?

Personally, when I go to the nail salon (in America, at least) run by Koreans, Chinese, or another Asian group, I don't get upset because I can't understand what they are saying. They understand each other--that's what matters. After all, they're not even talking to me. If they do, they speak English.

I think the problem here is that when people who dislike ebonics hear it, they are often not the ones being spoken to. Usually a person speaking ebonics will speak to another person speaking ebonics. Just because you heard it in passing shouldn't mean a thing to you--they're not even talking to you, so why should it matter to you?

True, language is about communicating ideas. However, if a group of people are speaking a certain dialect/language to one another--excluding you--and they are able to understand one another, then why should it matter to you?

Personally, when I go to the nail salon (in America, at least) run by Koreans, Chinese, or another Asian group, I don't get upset because I can't understand what they are saying. They understand each other--that's what matters. After all, they're not even talking to me. If they do, they speak English.

I think the problem here is that when people who dislike ebonics hear it, they are often not the ones being spoken to. Usually a person speaking ebonics will speak to another person speaking ebonics. Just because you heard it in passing shouldn't mean a thing to you--they're not even talking to you, so why should it matter to you?


That's not necesserily true, my african american friends don't 'switch dialects' when they talk to me.

People who speak isolated dialects are disadvantaged because they're hard to understand and relate with; however, some are worse than others and personally I find Ebonics to be the hardest to understand of all but the most isolated dialects in the US...it's just plain difficult, and that's the main problem I have with it and other similarly difficult to understand dialects spoken by any group.
You've heard every dialect spoken in the US? Wow, you must have travled a lot. And again, it is difficult for YOU. Who died and made YOU judge of the English language?

It has bad grammar when put in to the standard English used as a modicum of conversation and expression in business or similar fields. A person who can't use the basic proper grammar of standard English will be disadvantaged because it implies a lack of education and inability to communicate understandably.
What standard English? Which English? Which standard? I have never heard STANDARD English. NO ONE speaks Standard English.

That grammar and pronunciation is very hard to understand, and a lot of people in a lot of places have trouble understanding it. Clear communication is vital for success in any field, so being unable to express yourself clearly will compromise your ability to succeed in anything you do. I personally have a Standard American accent...it's easy to understand but immediately recognizable anywhere in the US.
The people who speak it have no problem understanding and that's the important part.

BTW, no, you DON'T have a standard American accent (though many people in Ohio think they do for some reason). There's never been a standard one.

Ebonics is cool. And easy to understand, for me at least, although I didn't know it was called ebonics. Wait, does this mean all black people and only black people can speak it?

:p You've heard every dialect spoken in the US? Wow, you must have travled a lot. And again, it is difficult for YOU. Who died and made YOU judge of the English language?


What standard English? Which English? Which standard? I have never heard STANDARD English. NO ONE speaks Standard English.


The people who speak it have no problem understanding and that's the important part.

BTW, no, you DON'T have a standard American accent (though many people in Ohio think they do for some reason). There's never been a standard one.


There have been studies; and, people from Nebraska have the most unrecognisably diluted accent in the United States. It sounds like individuals from that state come from nowhere, which isn't far from the truth. :p

Ebonics is cool. And easy to understand, for me at least, although I didn't know it was called ebonics. Wait, does this mean all black people and only black people can speak it?


I was born in Texas; and, now, I'm a liberal atheist who speaks in an accent very similar to RP. Go figure.

I was born in Texas; and, now, I'm a liberal atheist who speaks in an accent very similar to RP. Go figure.

You're from the US and claim to speak RP?

Well, that must sound quite silly.

You're from the US and claim to speak RP?

Well, that must sound quite silly.


My friends find it sexy; but, I learnt it because I just love the way that it sounds to the ear. :p

You've heard every dialect spoken in the US? Wow, you must have travled a lot. And again, it is difficult for YOU. Who died and made YOU judge of the English language?

It's difficult for a lot of people to understand heavy accents, including but not limited to Ebonics; why do you think there are so few people in people-oriented positions that have heavy accents?

What standard English? Which English? Which standard? I have never heard STANDARD English. NO ONE speaks Standard English.

The English used by businesses, governments, and international organizations is the closest thing to a standard English. If you can't speak and write according to the rules of that convention, you will be at a disadvantage.

The people who speak it have no problem understanding and that's the important part.

Well, if they want to remain isolated from other places, that's not a problem; they have a right to protect their culture and history, and that includes English. However, that puts you at a serious economic disadvantage and leads to the development of stereotypes that will hurt people in that community when they try to integrate in to the larger society.

BTW, no, you DON'T have a standard American accent (though many people in Ohio think they do for some reason). There's never been a standard one.

It's the accent most preferred in the national news media, which makes it an effective standard for the purpose of clear communication.

I was born in Texas; and, now, I'm a liberal atheist who speaks in an accent very similar to RP. Go figure.

I know someone who was born in Columbia, is Jewish, and speaks an RP/New York accent hybrid. Your point?

I personally have a Standard American accent...it's easy to understand but immediately recognizable anywhere in the US.

I'm going to assume that that is a matter of sheer personal opinion, judging from your use of the word, "personally." I say this because your accent to you may not seem easy to understand to someone in New York or Georgia.

Besides, who is the authoritative one laying out the dogmatic foundations of what a "Standard American" accent should be/sound like? I would really like to know.

If this "standard" somehow turns out to be true, let me know--I'd rather be a maverick.

I know someone who was born in Columbia, is Jewish, and speaks an RP/New York accent hybrid. Your point?


I was merely pointing out that a person's demographic is not necessarily indicative of the way in which he or she speaks. There's not need to get saucy.

Besides, who is the one laying the dogmatic foundation for the definition of a Standard American accent? If this standard somehow turns out to be true, let me know--I'd rather be a maverick.

It's used and encouraged by the national news media to make their reports as accent neutral and understandable as possible. It won't be easily understood by everyone, but by more than enough viewers that the benefits will outweigh the losses. It's practicality that motivates the encouragement of the accent in media.

My friends find it sexy; but, I learnt it because I just love the way that it sounds to the ear. :p

So, you don't even speak it natively, but it's something you "learnt?" Something you put on? Something you're not?

Right. That's not silly, that's sad.

I was merely pointing out that a person's demographic is not necessarily indicative of the way in which he or she speaks. There's not need to get saucy.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be, just a little tired. My orginal point was that ebonics seems to imply black people, and then I read your post and then I got confused. I seem to be slightly out of it...

(hehe, I'm past 200 posts(people who have way more than me, no need to make fun))

ebonics is the way the us government tries to keep the black man in his place. by not teaching them the proper ways to speak it makes it harder for them to find jobs and makes white people happier by not knowing when offensive stuff is being said to them.

:headbang:

crazy theory i heard a while back. yes it was indeed a black man saying it. i was unsure if he was serious or not. im guessing he was joking or drunk ( i hope). bu the truely sad thing is that some people will actually take this stuff in as fact and they are brought up thinking that every white person is out to get them.

So, you don't even speak it natively, but it's something you "learnt?" Something you put on? Something you're not?

Right. That's not silly, that's sad.


So, one may not choose how he or she speaks?! Just because I was born in Texas does NOT mean that I am forced to speak that accent.

Oh, and for the second part: Did I ever claim to be British? No. I'm not British. I just love the accent, like I have said. Furthermore, how is that "sad"? Is it sad that I make my own choices about the way in which I speak; or, is it sad that I don't much admire my linguistic heritage? Please, tell me.

Ebonics? That is so five years ago.

Even the much hated Jessie Jackson spoke out against it.

Is anyone else tired of Ebonics? I mean who in their right mind would call this a language?

Oh, I don't know, a linguist? Silly linguists. Trix are for kids.

It sounds like the english language for people who don't want to spell words correctly. I mean can anyone honestly understand this line? “Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads.”

Sadly, I don't keep up with the latest developments in street slang, so I can only understand part of it.

As far as I can tell it has to do something with tilt, drugs, and chicken heads. I mean for crying out loud! I'll be honest with you people, if I ran a business and one of the person I was interviewing talked like this, I would not hire them.

Funny, a lot of people seem to feel that way.

I really hope that English will become an offical language soon, and I hope that it's real english, not this Ebonics crap. If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to speak the same language that the majority speak.

Why on Earth do you want English to be an official language?

So what do yall think of ebonics?

It's just another dialect to me, Willy.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be, just a little tired. My orginal point was that ebonics seems to imply black people, and then I read your post and then I got confused. I seem to be slightly out of it...


You are right about the fact that "ebonics" implies that is for African-Americans. The root words, ebony, and, phonetics, clearly state that. :)

I love ebonics.

So, one may not choose how he or she speaks?! Just because I was born in Texas does NOT mean that I am forced to speak that accent.

Oh, and for the second part: Did I ever claim to be British? No. I'm not British. I just love the accent, like I have said. Furthermore, how is that "sad"? Is it sad that I make my own choices about the way in which I speak; or, is it sad that I don't much admire my linguistic heritage? Please, tell me.

The sad thing is that you're acting something you're not. You're actually making an effort to sound like a right old git. I just hope you don't do it in front of anyone truly British, because they'd probably laugh at you behind your back. That's assuming the people you do it in front of aren't already.

The sad thing is that you're acting something you're not. You're actually making an effort to sound like a right old git. I just hope you don't do it in front of anyone truly British, because they'd probably laugh at you behind your back. That's assuming the people you do it in front of aren't already.


Is the site lagging for anyone else?

And no, even though it is none of your business. No one is "laughing at me". You can choose how you want to speak; and I shall choose how I wish to speak, okay?

Is the site lagging for anyone else?

And no, even though it is none of your business. No one is "laughing at me". You can choose how you want to speak; and I shall choose how I wish to speak, okay?

Exactly! I completely agree with you, and thus, this thread's topic is completely irrelevant--people can talk however/do whatever they want, and people will talk however/do whatever they want. And it's no one else's business or concern--because, really, it's none of your business. So ranting and raving about ebonics isn't going to stop people from talking like that because...they really just don't give two cents about what the person who looks down upon them thinks.

And all the better. It's the same idea that you shouldn't care what Fass thinks about you just because of your choices.

ebonics is the way the us government tries to keep the black man in his place. by not teaching them the proper ways to speak it makes it harder for them to find jobs and makes white people happier by not knowing when offensive stuff is being said to them.

:headbang:

crazy theory i heard a while back. yes it was indeed a black man saying it. i was unsure if he was serious or not. im guessing he was joking or drunk ( i hope). bu the truely sad thing is that some people will actually take this stuff in as fact and they are brought up thinking that every white person is out to get them.

Thats actually a favorite theory among black conspiracy theorists that I know (Jews controll EVERYTHING, all white people are racists). Sadly enough it is true that poor, inner-city kids (predominantly minorities) are not given the same quality of education as their more suburban, rich counter-parts. Around half the teachers at my elementary school spoke in varied forms of ebonics, as did many parents and friends. They are never taught other forms of English, and so when they encounter people who are prejudiced against ebonics, they won't be as respected as they should be.

Is the site lagging for anyone else?

It's 04.00 GMT. The servers being in the UK, this is the time they run maintenance.

And no, even though it is none of your business.

If it were nobody else's business, you'd shut up about it and not use it as some weird little personality quirk that's supposed to make someone else think your opinion on ebonics is worthier.

No one is "laughing at me".

That's what you think.

You can choose how you want to speak;

So can people who speak ebonics, and here you are, disparaging them. Ironic.

and I shall choose how I wish to speak, okay?

Do that, but know that you probably sound like a git.

In the late 80's eraly 90's I think you could actually take ebonics as a lanugauge class. Hah...

So can people who speak ebonics, and here you are, disparaging them. Ironic.

Hear, hear.

I really hope that English will become an offical language soon, and I hope that it's real english

damn straight, none of that southern bullshit. we're all going to have to learn to speak like, um...hey, just what the fuck would real english be anyway?

damn straight, none of that southern bullshit. we're all going to have to learn to speak like, um...hey, just what the fuck would real english be anyway?

The language that you and I are speaking, but offically it would probably be the language that the USA government uses.

The language that you and I are speaking, but offically it would probably be the language that the USA government uses.

none of which are the same

none of which are the same

Actually, the english the US Government uses are pretty consistent.

Actually, the english the US Government uses are pretty consistent.

the english used in official documents is an almost completely unspoken version of english (not to mention largely incomprehensible to most english speakers even in this country). and the actual people in the government speak a wide range of different englishes.

the english used in official documents is an almost completely unspoken version of english (not to mention largely incomprehensible to most english speakers even in this country). and the actual people in the government speak a wide range of different englishes.

Well I was talking about the offical document's english.

*sighs* And linguists everywhere start crying.

Whatever you want to call it, Ebonics, Black English, Urban English, it's a dialect OF English. It has it's own roots, rules, and uses and can be traced back to the languages used by slaves. Furthermore, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CORRECT ENGLISH! It doesn't exist! There's well over 1 billion English speakers on this planet and NO ONE, not even the Queen of England, can claim to hold the title of "proper" English.

Yesh!

That is definitely true, but let's keep things in perspective. Yes, no one speaks proper English in the same way that no one is morally perfect. Yet some people are more closer to perfection that others. Ebonics is definitely on the far end of the spectrum when it comes to being close to the idealized state of English. For that, I loathe Ebonics.

There have been studies; and, people from Nebraska have the most unrecognisably diluted accent in the United States. It sounds like individuals from that state come from nowhere, which isn't far from the truth. :p
So they have the most mixed accent. But, with respect to the people (and corn of Nebraska), if we chose a standard, should it not be what most people speak?

Now imagine the horror of having to learn to speak like a Californian.

4dn w47 h4pn'd 2 1337 5p33k? 3bonik5 5hud b r3pl4cd wi7 7his...
4nd teh zc4ry 7h1ng 1s d47 1 c4n 17

It's difficult for a lot of people to understand heavy accents, including but not limited to Ebonics; why do you think there are so few people in people-oriented positions that have heavy accents?
Depends upon the job and area. Some companies that are strictly local will actually go out and hire people who sound local.

Or to put it another way, the fastest way I know of to lose buisness in Nevada is to have a spokesperson who mispronouces the state's name (as it seems only Nevadans say it right).

The English used by businesses, governments, and international organizations is the closest thing to a standard English. If you can't speak and write according to the rules of that convention, you will be at a disadvantage.
Buisnesses huh? (listens to Bill Gates, the Walton family, other buisness leaders who all have compeating acents) Hmmm that didn't work.

Ok, we'll go to the head of government himself to get "proper" English.

(Insert ANY Bushim here) Oh dear.

International, ok, I can do International... Er... (Irish, British, Canadan, American, Indian, Australian, New Zealand, North Atlantic, various parts of Africa, the United Nations...) Sorry, which of the world Englishes did you have in mind?

Well, if they want to remain isolated from other places, that's not a problem; they have a right to protect their culture and history, and that includes English. However, that puts you at a serious economic disadvantage and leads to the development of stereotypes that will hurt people in that community when they try to integrate in to the larger society.
Most people are bi-dailectal in that they use the one they grew up with at home, and a larger, bland, English outside. People do this automatically. Lack of speakers does not mean that the dialect deserves any less respect.

It's the accent most preferred in the national news media, which makes it an effective standard for the purpose of clear communication.
Oh, NEWS media. The fact that NO ONE sounds like them, and they all speak differently off camera doesn't mean anything huh? It's a made up dialect, it's trying to be as bland as possible, but it is not standard.

Please, people, go study some linquistics.

That is definitely true, but let's keep things in perspective. Yes, no one speaks proper English in the same way that no one is morally perfect. Yet some people are more closer to perfection that others. Ebonics is definitely on the far end of the spectrum when it comes to being close to the idealized state of English. For that, I loathe Ebonics.
No, let's be honest and not try to stick your language nose in the air. There is not, and never has been, a perfect English. You cannot BE closer to prefection, you cannot speak proper English because it does not exist. It's like saying only those from a small town in Nebraska can be "proper" Americans.

There is no ideal English, never was, never will be. And if there was, why the hell do you think it lives in AMERICA? Why not the UK? Or Germany where it was born?

Or the middle of Europe?

Or Africa where all languages come from?

There is no ideal English, never was, never will be. And if there was, why the hell do you think it lives in AMERICA? Why not the UK? Or Germany where it was born?

Or the middle of Europe?

Or Africa where all languages come from?

this just in - perfect english actually !kung

this just in - perfect english actually !kung
*lol* ;)

Ebonics is essentially a dialect of its own in many respects. Its like the many dialects spoken in China or India, a single relative root language split into various branches in various locales.

Theres nothing wrong with Ebonics. If Ebonics is what you speak, then Ebonics is what you speak. Nothing you can do about it. However, if you want the majority of English-speakers to understand you then "proper" English is perhaps the best method of communication as opposed to Ebonics which is limited to a certain group only.

"Proper Language" used to be defined as that which is used by the leadership and the most educated of society.

In the US we have had a string of leaders (except Reagan) that have spoken with less that what in the past would be "proper". gunna for going to, dropping the "g" from ing endings--doin, goin, etc. let's not even get started with the current leadership.

So I would now drop the leader part and say "Proper Language" is that of the most educated.

Correct language depends on where one is. If in the ghetto then Ebonics is correct. If talking to my customers, then it had better be "proper English".

Ebonics and the promotion of ebonics only serves to isolate certain groups of people from mainstream society even more than they already are.

Ebonics and the promotion of ebonics only serves to isolate certain groups of people from mainstream society even more than they already are.

funny, it seems to me that it's speakers form the base of one of the most culturally vibrant parts of the nation and therefore has a disproportionate influence on 'mainstream' society.

Correct language depends on where one is. If in the ghetto then Ebonics is correct. If talking to my customers, then it had better be "proper English".

It's actually even more context-dependent than that. You can speak Ebonics to a certain degree in the ghetto as a person of color, to a lesser degree as a white person unless you're very well known in the community and of an appropriate age.

Then the Oakland school board, concerned that its black students (some 53 percent of the total) were not learning as well as they should, passed a resolution recognizing that most of these students spoke Ebonics and calling for improved instruction in Standard English. Overlooking the board's emphasis on the standard, the predominant reaction was one of shock at the respect and recognition for African-American Vernacular English implied by the word Ebonics.

That's what it's about, isn't it? Because, the resolution that started this dumbass debate years ago wasn't that people should be able to speak ebonics, but to the contrary, the school needed to focus more on teaching standard english.

So it's about the recognition that it exists at all. Telling.

link (http://www.answers.com/topic/ebonics)

Except when Michael Cain speaks it :cool:
QFT :p

Oh, we had this poster in English class of group of punk rockers and skin heads and other generally chavish persons draped in a British flag and "Britannia Rule the Waves" floating above them. I actually think the poster originated as part of Blair's "Cool Britannia" campaigns from a few years back. It was our Canadian teacher's way of letting us know that it didn't matter all that much that our English wasn't "perfect" - neither was that of most British people.

I'm sorry but punk rockers are not chavs. Or "neds" as we sometimes call them in Scotland i.e. "Non Educated Delinquents" I personally know many neds/chavs and they are, normally, the bullys in our schools, the vandals, the criminals and the underage drinkers. They wear tracksuits, listen to dance music, wear fake burberry, swear constantly, have no respect for other people, objects, animals or authority they also wear coloured Timberlands and let their disgusting flabby bits hang out.Plus they will fight ANYONE that so much as glances in their direction. I myself do not like to be classed but I do it constantly to neds, which is probably wrong but this group of people have basically been hurting my friends, giving my generation and my country a really bad name and so in my opinion they deserve what's coming to them. "Slack baetins' ged" as they would say.

As for Punk Rockers, well they might not be complete angels but they certainly are not chavs.

I think it's great.

Who is a good example of a RP English speaker? Hugh Grant?

He was the first to come to mind for some reason

I couldn't give a monkeys to tell you the truth. Language changes and seemingly nowadays with each new generation. I certianly don't speak as my grandparents did/do, and my kids already have slang that I don't understand.

Realise that is just the way things are, and worry about things that need worrying over.

Heh that said though this kidnapping and misuse/re-use of the word Chav does wind me up. I continue to use the word as I always have done, which is to say it means a child, a chav is a child. So when I say things like, 'ohhh yeah when I was a chav' I get these funny looks and people start saying things like, 'wot you? Never!'

It makes me want to hit them, *sigh* but I don't.

As for Punk Rockers, well they might not be complete angels but they certainly are not chavs.Oh yes we are. Punks & Skins are per definition violent, unthinking, alcoholic, drug adicted advertisement victims. It's very important that you don't allow yourself to be fooled by the things they say & the things they do. Close your eyes & ears, and open your mouth.

Don't let a trivial thing like reality destroy a perfectly good sensationalist lie. Anarchists wants guns so they can kill you. Punks want bricks to smash your heads & steal your money & Skinheads are nazis. That's really how it is. We're evil & want to hurt you ;)

The same as I think of the cockney accent and dialect; revoltingly low-class trash. Each to their own though. :)
The difference is that Cockney isn't taught as an official language in order to assauge the self-esteem of the people that speak in that accent and dialect.

Sure, speak the way you want in your neighborhood and home. But if I can't understand you because you aren't speaking English, I'm not going to pay for classes to teach you more ignorance.

The difference is that Cockney isn't taught as an official language in order to assauge the self-esteem of the people that speak in that accent and dialect.

Sure, speak the way you want in your neighborhood and home. But if I can't understand you because you aren't speaking English, I'm not going to pay for classes to teach you more ignorance.
Really? Then what's your problem? (http://fcis.oise.utoronto.ca/~daniel_sch/assignment1/1996ebonics.html)
Recommendations from the Board’s panel were published in the Oakland Resolution in 1996, which called for changes in schools but also declared “Ebonics” African Language Systems as the native language of African-American children, genetically based and not a dialect of American English. The Oakland board trustees unanimously voted for what became America’s first education policy recognizing ebonics as the primary language of many students, comparing their language needs with those of immigrant children. Teachers were then required to understand the characteristics of their students’ speech so that they could assist children in learning standard English by encouraging them to compare it with the Ebonics speech.

Maybe it was the 'liberal' media-
The American media focused on the fact that Oakland was making Ebonics its official language, and misreported that the teaching of English would be replaced by Ebonics. The uproar and backlash from this media angle was immense.

If in the ghetto then Ebonics is correct. If talking to my customers, then it had better be "proper English".

Fallacy. And once again, it's a matter of pure opinion.

I couldn't give a monkeys to tell you the truth. Language changes and seemingly nowadays with each new generation. I certianly don't speak as my grandparents did/do, and my kids already have slang that I don't understand.

Realise that is just the way things are, and worry about things that need worrying over.

Finally: someone who realizes how stupid this topic is. Seriously, there are more important things to worry about.

Also, I really enjoy reading the "intelligent" responses the people who claim to hate Ebonics are coming up with. You claim that Ebonics doesn't make sense, isn't perfect English, blah, blah, blah. Yet, some of you don't even know how to spell, use proper grammar, and/or employ proper punctuation.

When I read a post like that, there's no point in attempting to assess the validity of your ideas because you sound just as, in your minds, "stupid" as the dialect you are trying to put down. Oh, the tragic irony.

People, get a life. PLEASE.

This may be a shocking truth, but the world, as a whole, does not speak Ebonics. The existence of Ebonics is not going to kill you, cause you cancer, or cause stress, I assure you. If you do, somehow, manage to die--from a stress-induced death, stress-induced cancer, or just...stress, then, you're an idiot.

Why the hell did you waste your life worrying about what other people do/say instead of your own life?

Finally: someone who realizes how stupid this topic is. Seriously, there are more important things to worry about.

Also, I really enjoy reading the "intelligent" responses the people who claim to hate Ebonics are coming up with. You claim that Ebonics doesn't make sense, isn't perfect English, blah, blah, blah. Yet, some of you don't even know how to spell, use proper grammar, and/or employ proper punctuation.

When I read a post like that, there's no point in attempting to assess the validity of your ideas because you sound just as, in your minds, "stupid" as the dialect you are trying to put down. Oh, the tragic irony.

People, get a life. PLEASE.

This may be a shocking truth, but the world, as a whole, does not speak Ebonics. The existence of Ebonics is not going to kill you, cause you cancer, or cause stress, I assure you. If you do, somehow, manage to die--from a stress-induced death, stress-induced cancer, or just...stress, then, you're an idiot.

Why the hell did you waste your life worrying about what other people do/say instead of your own life?


It matters because I'm not so selfish as to worry only about myself. I worry about children who are condemned by their voice to be a part of the underclass. The topic is Ebonics but it could just as well be Hillbilly or Deep Southern or Upper Mid-West Swede or any number of other dialects.

Can a person overcome their voice? Yes, it happens but the odds are against it. The odds improve considerably if they learn the dialect of the most educated of society. Ebonics is a valid language. It communicates meaning between people. But it also carries a semantic undertone that is detrimental in business.

As I said above, speak Ebonics all you want when you visit the ghetto. But don't apply for a job with me if you can't speak a dialect that my customers will accept. No employee is as important as my customers.

That is why I grieve for those who only speak Ebonics.

Is anyone else tired of Ebonics? I mean who in their right mind would call this a language? It sounds like the english language for people who don't want to spell words correctly. I mean can anyone honestly understand this line? “Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads.” As far as I can tell it has to do something with tilt, drugs, and chicken heads. I mean for crying out loud! I'll be honest with you people, if I ran a business and one of the person I was interviewing talked like this, I would not hire them. I really hope that English will become an offical language soon, and I hope that it's real english, not this Ebonics crap. If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to speak the same language that the majority speak. So what do yall think of ebonics?

It's a diverging dialect. I think it'll eventually be, if not officially recognized, linguistically speaking a separate dialect of English, if not its own language. It's going from slang to an entire mode of speech with its own idioms, connotations, etc.

That said, I certainly don't support speaking it, or recognizing it officially as a language, because it's a horrific corruption of English, regardless of whether it's being gradually institutionalized into its own dialect or not.

But everything changes; all languages diverge.

The difference is that Cockney isn't taught as an official language in order to assauge the self-esteem of the people that speak in that accent and dialect.

Sure, speak the way you want in your neighborhood and home. But if I can't understand you because you aren't speaking English, I'm not going to pay for classes to teach you more ignorance.
Too true.

"if I ran a business and one of the person I was interviewing talked like this, I would not hire them."- It depends on what business you own and what is the starting salary, catch my drift :p

it's a horrific corruption of English

there is no such thing

"if I ran a business and one of the person I was interviewing talked like this, I would not hire them."- It depends on what business you own and what is the starting salary, catch my drift :p
Yea, I guess if I were hiring at slave wages I would want people who at least could understand me even if I couldn't understand them.

"if I ran a business and one of the person I was interviewing talked like this, I would not hire them."- It depends on what business you own and what is the starting salary, catch my drift :p

::claps:: Finally, someone with a brain.

Good Lifes, I can most solidly assure you that someone who speaks Ebonics is not likely to come to you, for a job, so don't worry too much about it, unless you live in an area where it is widely spoken.

And even if you did live in such an area, and didn't speak Ebonics, people who speak Ebonics still would not come to you.

And finally, if you did live in such an area, you'd HAVE to hire someone who speaks Ebonics because most of your customers would speak it, as well.

Yea, I guess if I were hiring at slave wages I would want people who at least could understand me even if I couldn't understand them.

One: That's rude, and disrespectful.

Two: Once again, because people seem to be quite deaf, it's a matter of where you are and where you come from.

Three: Some people who speak Ebonics can even understand the way some white people speak, if that's what you're trying to get at. Don't make fallacies, please.

::claps:: Finally, someone with a brain.

Good Lifes, I can most solidly assure you that someone who speaks Ebonics is not likely to come to you, for a job, so don't worry too much about it, unless you live in an area where it is widely spoken.

And even if you did live in such an area, and didn't speak Ebonics, people who speak Ebonics still would not come to you.

And finally, if you did live in such an area, you'd HAVE to hire someone who speaks Ebonics because most of your customers would speak it, as well.
If you read my posts I said that the language of the leadership of the area you are in is the "proper" language to speak. So if in the ghetto speak ghetto. If you run a business in the ghetto hire those that speak ghetto. You will have a supply of labor because they won't be working anywhere else. Hense you can pay less. Better profit for you.

But, with Ebonics it locks the person into the neighborhoods that tend to be less economically advanced. When a business is operating in an area where people are advancing in society the business must cater to those people. That means anyone with customer contact must speak in the dialect of the leadership and educated of society. Those that don't speak in that dialect will find themselves in the back room in the lower paid jobs.

It's amazing that the immigrants to the country can understand this concept but those who's families go back hundreds of years can't grasp it. Give an immigrant family two generations and they are doing the things necessary to become a part of that society and to advance economically.

So if they want out they need to learn the language that will let them out. There is nothing wrong with being bilingual.

So if they want out they need to learn the language that will let them out. There is nothing wrong with being bilingual.
*sighs* They do. Like everyone else, they learn what works for them. It isn't another language, it's a dialect. It's no different from the way YOU speak. You probably switch your English around without even realizing it depending upon the situation and so do the speakers of Ebonics.

*sighs* They do. Like everyone else, they learn what works for them. It isn't another language, it's a dialect. It's no different from the way YOU speak. You probably switch your English around without even realizing it depending upon the situation and so do the speakers of Ebonics.
Of course I do. I wear many caps. I teach speech at the college level. I have a business that deals with agriculture. I work part time as a rural mail carrier. I also grew up in a stongly German town so spoke in a German accent. In each situation I adjust my speech. If you don't like multilingual (although Ebonics is very close to a separate language) then use multidialectal.

The problem is many who speak Ebonics or even an inner city dialect or accent don't adjust according to the situation. The simply don't speak in a dialect that is "proper" in business. Their voice condemns them to a life of poverty.

I'm not arguing "right and wrong". I'm saying that language judgement is a fact and if you want every chance to get ahead you need to adapt to the language that is expected. Colin Powell wouldn't have been a general or Sec. of State if he couldn't adjust. And yes I have heard him speak both Ebonics and Yiddish when in the appropriate situation.

I find Indo-European languages to be grotesque anyway. So I don't see how Ebonics is any worse than what Westerners are already taught in school.

there is no such thing

As English or as a corruption thereof?

In New Zealand (Where I live) Maoris have their own dialect as well, its even more annoying than ebonics.

"AEAEAEAE check out my new car oul!"

"o bro that cost bloody heaps aye!"

from what i can tell, that's more pacific island than maori, and more specificly south auckland. of course, i'm not an absolute authority on such things.

there are so many subtletys to that it's not funny. though you'll find that older maori can [and do] speak very proper and clear english.

standard New Zealand english [and i'm not talking the formal "high" public speaking type] is a crazy language. it's fast, generaly, has a couple of "fake" vowels taht often extend words to an extra sylabal or two, we tend to drop the centers out of words, includeing "d" and "t" sounds.. the list goes on.
running becomes "runn'n" for example.

there are some words that in most english dialects and accents are indistinguishable from one another, that NZ english uses that fake vowel sound [or lack of sound.. it's odd] to differentiate between, and then there are some words that the difference is easy to hear in most other dialectst that sound near identical in NZ english.

even our formal english sounds drasticly different to how it did forty years ago.

going back closer to the originaly topic; i can understand why people would have a problem with this kind of speach. not to say they shouldn't speak it at all, but really, especialy in the USA, english is the "comon" and "trade" tounge, as well as the language of the beurocracy and paperwork.

if you can't speak "standard" english for the area you're in, then it really doesn't matter what else you speak, you're screwed. it's not a case or racisem or discrimination, mostly, so much as that it's just not practical for salesment not to speak the langauge of their customers, or for workers in the same team [no matter what the task] to be unable to understand each other.

at a job interview, at the very least i know I would expect them to speak more formaly... in the "high" tounge of the land, as it were.. which in the USA is the same as the common or trade tounges: a relitivly standardised form of english.

hopefully you can see My point here, and i don't get attacked for racisem or idiocy or whatever else.

[you'd be amazed how often on this forum one person will make an intelligent statement, another will make an intelligent, or at least not idiotic responce, and then they both procead to make them selves look like utter fools and to invalidate their own view points by attempting to out do the other. or mabey you wouldn't.]

i allow that any part of this May be wrong, but you'd have to convince me, because this is how it seems to me.

Is anyone else tired of Ebonics? I mean who in their right mind would call this a language? It sounds like the english language for people who don't want to spell words correctly. I mean can anyone honestly understand this line? “Let's jump in the six fo,' mob back to tha' tilt, git mystical wit' some clova' sacs and holla at some chicken heads.” As far as I can tell it has to do something with tilt, drugs, and chicken heads. I mean for crying out loud! I'll be honest with you people, if I ran a business and one of the person I was interviewing talked like this, I would not hire them. I really hope that English will become an offical language soon, and I hope that it's real english, not this Ebonics crap. If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to speak the same language that the majority speak. So what do yall think of ebonics?

Yup.
People can talk just plain good old english.
If they don't like it, they can keep the traps shut.