NationStates Jolt Archive

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women — one of them about to give birth — when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in a city north of Baghdad, Iraqi officials and relatives said Wednesday.

Nabiha Nisaif Jassim, 35, was being raced to the maternity hospital in Samarra by her brother when the shooting occurred Tuesday.

Jassim, the mother of two children, and her 57-year-old cousin, Saliha Mohammed Hassan, were killed by the U.S. forces, according to police Capt. Laith Mohammed and witnesses.

((just insert the usual US military excuses here..))

Jassim's brother, who was wounded by broken glass, said he did not see any warnings as he sped his sister to the hospital. Her husband was waiting for her there.

"I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans. It was not until they shot the two bullets that killed my sister and cousin that I stopped," he said. "God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives."

source AOL.com / AP.

Comment.. If I was from Iraq, I would probably feel just like Jassim's Brother.
OccdNews©2006

OMG!

OCEANDRIVE IS BACK!

:fluffle:

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women — one of them about to give birth — when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in a city north of Baghdad, Iraqi officials and relatives said Wednesday.

Nabiha Nisaif Jassim, 35, was being raced to the maternity hospital in Samarra by her brother when the shooting occurred Tuesday.

Jassim, the mother of two children, and her 57-year-old cousin, Saliha Mohammed Hassan, were killed by the U.S. forces, according to police Capt. Laith Mohammed and witnesses.

((just insert the usual US military excuses here..))

Jassim's brother, who was wounded by broken glass, said he did not see any warnings as he sped his sister to the hospital. Her husband was waiting for her there.

"I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans. It was not until they shot the two bullets that killed my sister and cousin that I stopped," he said. "God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives."

source AOL.com / AP.

Comment.. If I was from Iraq, I would probably feel just like Jassim's Brother.
OccdNews©2006

Perfectly justified, they could have been suicide bombers.

Perfectly justified, they could have been suicide bombers.
Well they weren't so it's murder

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women — one of them about to give birth — when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in a city north of Baghdad, Iraqi officials and relatives said Wednesday.


Long story short, failing to stop at a checkpoint = bad idea in a warzone.

The soldiers have a duty to protect Iraqi civilians and themselves; if people cannot obey the rules and they suffer the consequences, justice has occurred.

The soldiers have a duty to protect Iraqi civilians and themselves; if people cannot obey the rules and they suffer the consequences, justice has occurred.
Justice!?!? How the hell is that Justice?

On the same note The soldiers have a duty to up hold the standers set by our millitary, and need to be court marshaled :mad:

OMG!

OCEANDRIVE IS BACK!

:fluffle:hey, i missed you too.

Soldiers have a duty to at least attempt to distinguish between friend and foe

The soldiers have a duty to protect Iraqi civilians and themselves;

If that's true then by your own logic the soldiers have failed in their duty when they kill Iraqi civilians.

Yes I think it is a terrible failure when they kill Iraqi civilians - that is exactly the point I was making. I was certainly not defending the soldiers in any way. Unless you consider it unfair to ask a soldier to think first before he pulls the trigger.

Perfectly justified, they could have been suicide bombers.

Originally Posted by OcceanDrive
BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women — one of them about to give birth — when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in a city north of Baghdad, Iraqi officials and relatives said Wednesday.

Nabiha Nisaif Jassim, 35, was being raced to the maternity hospital in Samarra by her brother when the shooting occurred Tuesday.

Jassim, the mother of two children, and her 57-year-old cousin, Saliha Mohammed Hassan, were killed by the U.S. forces, according to police Capt. Laith Mohammed and witnesses.

((just insert the usual US military excuses here..))

Jassim's brother, who was wounded by broken glass, said he did not see any warnings as he sped his sister to the hospital. Her husband was waiting for her there.

"I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans. It was not until they shot the two bullets that killed my sister and cousin that I stopped," he said. "God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives."

source AOL.com / AP.

Comment.. If I was from Iraq, I would probably feel just like Jassim's Brother.
OccdNews©2006

Oh I see...

Soldiers are being killed every day by suicide bombers; a speeding car is coming towards you, showing no signs of stopping at your check point. I'd shoot.

Soldiers are being killed every day by suicide bombers; a speeding car is coming towards you, showing no signs of stopping at your check point. I'd shoot.

The soldiers didnt even signal to stop.

I'd shoot.

Yeah. You too would fail in your duty.

In what way does this support your "justice has been done" statement? It doesn't.

The soldiers didnt even signal to stop.


It said that the driver did not see any signal. When you're in a car with your cousin's wife about to give birth you might miss a few things.

Soldiers are being killed every day by suicide bombers; a speeding car is coming towards you, showing no signs of stopping at your check point. I'd shoot.
My only question is, did the soldiers do enough to hinder loss of life? How did the shooting to disable the vehicle end up killing the pregnant women? Could the soldiers have done something different?

But is seems to me that the soldiers haven't done anything out of order in this case - if they indeed gave the right signals to the car.

The soldiers didnt even signal to stop.

you gonna make me find the other article that says they did?

The US military said a car had entered a "clearly marked prohibited area" near an observation post.

"As the vehicle neared the observation post and failed to stop despite repeated visual and auditory signals, shots were fired to disable the vehicle," Lieutenant Colonel Ed Loomis told Reuters in an e-mail in response to a question.

Yes I think it is a terrible failure when they kill Iraqi civilians - that is exactly the point I was making. I was certainly not defending the soldiers in any way. Unless you consider it unfair to ask a soldier to think first before he pulls the trigger.

If you won't defend the soldiers, someone has to... if there is a car speeding at them without showing signs of slowing down, its unreasonable to ask a soldier to wait till the car gets close enough to ask the driver why he's speeding at them before opening fire.
If cars speeding at me = suicide bomber a majority of the time... I'd shoot too. I'd feel bad about it but it doesn't mean I was wrong to shoot before waiting for the car to come close and most likely blow me up.

It said that the driver did not see any signal. When you're in a car with your cousin's wife about to give birth you might miss a few things.

Its understandable that he missed the the warnings of a checkpoint... but hes gotta be paying attention to the road too... if hes speeding and not watching where hes going... thats a danger to everyone in the car.

This is certainly a tragedy but nobody was in the wrong... just an unfortunate accident.

you gonna make me find the other article that says they did?

You gonna prove to me which article is more accurate?

The soldiers didnt even signal to stop.

The driver, didn't 'see a signal to stop', in no way does the article imply that there wasn't one.

"I was driving my car at full speed..."

He wasn't thinking. He was driving over the speed limit, and could've killed someone - he was being irresponsible, regardless of the reason.

If he -had- been a car bomber, and the guards hadn't shot him, people would've blamed the guards anyway, going "What the hell were you thinking just letting some random guy speed past you? You're the GUARDS, he was supposed to stop, and you didn't do anything to stop them!"

They have a duty to their own lives as well as the lives of the civilians. If someone went speeding through a checkpoint guarded by military personell in America, guess what? They'd get shot. That's how it works. They break the law, they put everyone in danger, they pay the price.

Pisses me off you would even think of blaming the troops for it.

You gonna prove to me which article is more accurate?
perhaps the one that isn't summerized by an anti-war NS Poster who may have left out a few facts?

"I was driving my car at full speed..."

He wasn't thinking. He was driving over the speed limit, and could've killed someone - he was being irresponsible, regardless of the reason.

If he -had- been a car bomber, and the guards hadn't shot him, people would've blamed the guards anyway, going "What the hell were you thinking just letting some random guy speed past you? You're the GUARDS, he was supposed to stop, and you didn't do anything to stop them!"

They have a duty to their own lives as well as the lives of the civilians. If someone went speeding through a checkpoint guarded by military personell in America, guess what? They'd get shot. That's how it works. They break the law, they put everyone in danger, they pay the price.

Pisses me off you would even think of blaming the troops for it.


Funny how there have been billions of car bombings and not one of us has said that.

Funny how there have been billions of car bombings and not one of us has said that.

Said what? I was quoting the article that had a quote from the guy that said "Damn the americans" or something to that effect.

And there haven't been BILLIONS of car bombings. There's been a lot, though.

Justice!?!? How the hell is that Justice?

On the same note The soldiers have a duty to up hold the standers set by our millitary, and need to be court marshaled :mad:
No, they don't. They acted in a reasonable and responsible manner. Stopping at a military checkpoint isn't optional. Failing to stop is an exercise in terminal stupidity. Those women died from their own stupidity, not from any criminal act. Good riddance. Fewer stupid genes floating around the old Iraqi gene pool.

Soldiers have a duty to at least attempt to distinguish between friend and foe
WTF do you think checkpoints are for?

If the ROE says shoot cars that fail to stop, you shoot cars that fail to stop. Having "been there" and "done that", I can tell you, you don´t get a lot of time to think. Training takes over and nasty stuff sometimes occurs. When you misuse Soldiers as "Peacekeepers" this sort of thing will always happen. Nervous soldiers, guns and unobservant civilians makes for an unhealthy mix.

If the Soldiers actions fall within ROE then fine, if not, then a courtmartial is in order.

Funny how there have been billions of car bombings and not one of us has said that.
nice stretch of facts there...

also, even a reuters article says there were clear markings...

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/focusoniraq/2006/May/focusoniraq_May164.xml&section=focusoniraq

Carbombs are an incredibly popular method of killing Americans and hapless Iraqi bystanders alike. They're fast, effective, and only need one guy to blow himself up to get the job done.

With that in mind, speeding in Iraq = BIG FUCKING NO NO.

Indeed, I would want to get said pregnant woman to a hospital as fast as possible, but at what cost? Spooking the already-paranoid American troopers that I'm one of Zarqawi's fuckpicks coming to blow them away? If they shoot up my car, and kill me or the pregnant woman in my care, what good will that do? We're dead!

I'll wager, in addition to common sense saying "better safe than sorry," one of those poor bastards' good buddy from Basic had gotten blown up by a carbomb a month or two ago. So, he sees this car coming at him at great speed, signals for it to stop, it doesn't, and, logically, the first thing in his mind is "Oh Christ, Mohammed is coming to kill me too! AAAAAH!" And thus there's some shooting.

This is really regrettable business.

Anyway, if you want to blame someone, don't go after our poor goons; they're just doing their dangerous and low-paying jobs, trying to save their own asses from getting annihilated in all kinds of colorful ways. The proper villain in this context is whatever dipshit in the Pentagon that had drawn up this so-called "Invasion" plan X years prior to the actual event that decided to not include a part about locking down Iraq's borders.

Protip: More suicide bombers and insurgents in general are foreign, not Iraqi, nowadays. In addition to putting a hole in the "they're freedom fighters!" argument, it shows us that our invasion plan was fucking shitty. The Iraqis want freedom and all the good and bad things it bring; their neighbors have other ideas. Groan.

I'd also like to throw a fruit at Bushie for letting all this happen. Invading a country is swell, IF YOU FUCKING DO IT RIGHT. I swear, some days, I think he drew up this invasion plan in his head while cutting down trees at Crawford, desperately trying to look like Ronald Reagan.

IT WAS A SHITTY PLAN, GEORGE. -_-*

The soldiers didnt even signal to stop.

How do you know ? because the ppl in the car didn't see any signals... this to me is not proof positive no sign was given.. since the article was cut up (to eliminate the usual military excuses) and no report has been finished... its hard to distinguish.

Ok, this kinda stuff happens a lot, I'm not condoning it but the soldiers were damned if they did, and damned if they didn't.

I don't blame the guy for speeding at all, you don't swan around when your wife is in labour- you rush to the hospital.

It was a tragic mistake, but that's all it was - a mistake.

Said what?

"What the hell were you thinking just letting some random guy speed past you? You're the GUARDS, he was supposed to stop, and you didn't do anything to stop them!"

.

How do you know ? because the ppl in the car didn't see any signals... this to me is not proof positive no sign was given.. since the article was cut up (to eliminate the usual military excuses) and no report has been finished... its hard to distinguish.

Well logic tells me that, if youre driving, you are looking out the windshield, and if you are, you might see a signal.

I speak Arabic and would like to point out that the AP's translation is off. First, he didn't say there were no warnings, just that there were no warnings from the Americans. There were stop signs and other visual warnings (i.e. do not enter, authorized personel only), but the Americans just grabbed their guns and shot. Secondly, he wasn't driving at "full" speed, he was driving "at speed" (a.k.a. the speed limit).

We can argue both sides of this and say yay or nay, but my take on it is that they should have DISABLED THE VEHICLE, NOT THE DRIVER! In high-class parking garages they have one-way spike strips that those exiting can roll over but those entering can not. Can't we lay some spike strips out?

And another thing, that check point didn't just pop out of nowhere. Why didn't the Iraqi's go an alternate route? It seems they thought "Okay, we're having a baby, we'll just casually cruise through the check point, no muss no fuss. The American's will understand and if not we'll just explain it, no problem... breathe... breathe... we'll be there any minute.... Look, there's the check point, we'll just go on through nice and peaceful like....." BANG! BANG!

You can't just cruise through a check point... you'd think the Iraqis would know that.

I speak Arabic and would like to point out that the AP's translation is off. First, he didn't say there were no warnings, just that there were no warnings from the Americans. There were stop signs and other visual warnings (i.e. do not enter, authorized personel only), but the Americans just grabbed their guns and shot. Secondly, he wasn't driving at "full" speed, he was driving "at speed" (a.k.a. the speed limit).

We can argue both sides of this and say yay or nay, but my take on it is that they should have DISABLED THE VEHICLE, NOT THE DRIVER! In high-class parking garages they have one-way spike stips that those exiting can roll over but those entering can not. Can't we lay some spike strips out?

And another thing, that check point didn't just pop out of nowhere. Why didn't the Iraqi's go an alternate route? It seems they thought "Okay, we're having a baby, we'll just casually cruise through the check point, no muss no fuss. The American's will understand and if not we'll just explain it, no problem... breathe... breathe... we'll be there any minute.... Look, there's the check point, we'll just go on through nice and peaceful like....." BANG! BANG!

You can't just cruise through a check point... you'd think the Iraqis would know that.

just wondering, of whose account are you qouting here.. the drivers ? or the soldiers...? Really, I would not take the drivers account to be proof positive of anything, given the anxiety he was under both before and after the incident.. i bet he didn't even realize it was a checkpoint he was aproaching.

.
Well logic tells me that, if youre driving, you are looking out the windshield, and if you are, you might see a signal.

yah, and that's why there are so many rear end accidents in a day.... because you know.. they have windshields to look out of...

o, that's right. sometimes people miss things when driving.

.



Well logic tells me that, if youre driving, you are looking out the windshield, and if you are, you might see a signal.

how many times have u run a red light ? a stop sign ? a yield sign ? not paid attention to the speed limit ? or if the person infront of u is braking.... then factor in the fact that your wife is having a kid and ur in Iraq where insurgents or americans can burst into a firefight at any time and tell me ur in any condition to see all the signals before u.

how many times have u run a red light ? a stop sign ? a yield sign ? not paid attention to the speed limit ? or if the person infront of u is braking.... then factor in the fact that your wife is having a kid and ur in Iraq where insurgents or americans can burst into a firefight at any time and tell me ur in any condition to see all the signals before u.
A checkpoint is not a redlight. Redlights aren't manned by guys with machineguns who's job it is to shoot the hell out of any car that won't stop. Running a checkpoint is just another way of commiting suicide. Should I have sympathy for some idiot who decides to smoke a cigarette while building homemade fireworks and blows himself up? Running a checkpoint is just as dumb.

how many times have u run a red light ?

none

a stop sign ?

none

a yield sign ?

none

not paid attention to the speed limit ?

I dont follow the speed limit, but that doesnt mean i miss the signs

or if the person infront of u is braking....

none

then factor in the fact that your wife is having a kid and ur in Iraq where insurgents or americans can burst into a firefight at any time and tell me ur in any condition to see all the signals before u.

Okay.

none



none



none



I dont follow the speed limit, but that doesnt mean i miss the signs



none



Okay.

how long have you been driving?

none



none



none



I dont follow the speed limit, but that doesnt mean i miss the signs



none



Okay.

If all this were true.. then its apitty you dont represent even close to a majority of the nations/worlds drivers... But it would be ignorance to suggest most people do not suffer terribly from distractions while behind the wheel. And give this mans circumstances... its obvious his mind was not on the road.

Damn it! Why can't GIs keep their noses clean? Arrgh!

The really abominable part for America( although such things are inherently abominable) is that whether or not other incidents of this sort ( eg Haditha) were justified, it'll hurt our reputation. " Tell a lie long enough and it becomes the truth."

Note: I'm not presuming to know whether the Haditha incident was justified or not. We'll have to wait and see.

No, they don't. They acted in a reasonable and responsible manner. Stopping at a military checkpoint isn't optional. Failing to stop is an exercise in terminal stupidity. Those women died from their own stupidity, not from any criminal act. Good riddance. Fewer stupid genes floating around the old Iraqi gene pool.
I strongly disagree, and I don't like your "stupid"-remark. The pregnant women who died did not die from her "own stupidity". As far as I can tell, she is an unfortunate innocent who got killed. You might blame the driver, but I fail to see how the pregnant women acted stupidly.

So far, this seems to be a very unfortunate accident.

Damn it! Why can't GIs keep their noses clean? Arrgh!

If the article is correct, then their "noses" are clean. They did nothing wrong...

however, if it was a cover up like the haditha incident seems to be, then there should be hell to pay.

how long have you been driving?

6 yrs

6 yrs

Wow, six whole years. And in that time you've never missed a sign? Quick question - how do you know?

Another question - are you actually suggesting that missing signs doesn't occur? Becuase your entire argument is based on that fallacy.

Another question - how many times have you been driving in a warzone with a pregnant woman? I suspect this driver had much to worry about that might be distracting and whether you acknowledge or not distracted driving causes accidents.

Meanwhile, the actual article when properly translated appears to tell us that they did see some signs, but not those of the soldiers. This still does not mean the soldiers made no sign.

I strongly disagree, and I don't like your "stupid"-remark. The pregnant women who died did not die from her "own stupidity". As far as I can tell, she is an unfortunate innocent who got killed. You might blame the driver, but I fail to see how the pregnant women acted stupidly.

So far, this seems to be a very unfortunate accident.
Ok, the woman died from the driver's stupidity. That's what I get for not reading the article carefully.

Ok, the woman died from the driver's stupidity. That's what I get for not reading the article carefully.

This was an unfortunate loss of life that seems preventable. We do not know for certain exactly what mistakes were made, but schadenfreude is simply uncalled for. I don't see why anyone would be cheery about the situation the family is in and the situation the Marines are now in.

Wow, six whole years. And in that time you've never missed a sign? Quick question - how do you know?

Because im not an idiot. I pay attention while I drive.

Another question - are you actually suggesting that missing signs doesn't occur? Becuase your entire argument is based on that fallacy.

If youre not an idiot, it doesnt occur.

Another question - how many times have you been driving in a warzone with a pregnant woman?

Twice. Then again it depends on your definition of warzone.

Meanwhile, the actual article when properly translated appears to tell us that they did see some signs, but not those of the soldiers. This still does not mean the soldiers made no sign.

Who cares. We shouldnt even be in Iraq anyway.

Because im not an idiot. I pay attention while I drive.
unfortunately, this doesn't apply to all drivers.
If youre not an idiot, it doesnt occur.
again, a high assumption, and disproven every day there is an accident on the road.
Twice. Then again it depends on your definition of warzone.
i want to know what your defintion of a war zone is if you've driven through one "twice"
Who cares. We shouldnt even be in Iraq anyway.
and the truth comes out. You're for anything against American soldiers there.

Because im not an idiot. I pay attention while I drive.



If youre not an idiot, it doesnt occur.



Twice. Then again it depends on your definition of warzone.



Who cares. We shouldnt even be in Iraq anyway.

This is a very compelling argument. Not. Not only to manage not to make an argument, but you also manage to insult lots of people while doing it and to drop arguments. Yay. You win the thread.

and the truth comes out. You're for anything against American soldiers there.

Oh, don't be ridiculous. This is clearly a rational and patient poster who considered all the evidence, weighed it and came to a conclusion. How do I know? Because he told us he's not an idiot, and, as long as we don't actually read his post, there is no reason not to take him at his word.

ask a soldier to think first before he pulls the trigger

or pushes a patriot missile launch button

thats was our plane you arsehole.. iraqis dont have harriers


but yeah the americans shoot before they think. tbh if they were a little more like the british soldiers then there would be far less car bombings and this preggers killing wouldnt have occured

and you can whine oh the americans have far more dangerous places than the british, but tbh this is because of the way the british have handled their citys they havent created such a tense atmosphere with the civilians( i.e. the whole soft hat thing).

Who cares. We shouldnt even be in Iraq anyway.
well said i couldnt have said it better ( unless i put f\/ck!ng between even and be)
forward korea:sniper:

If you won't defend the soldiers, someone has to... if there is a car speeding at them without showing signs of slowing down, its unreasonable to ask a soldier to wait till the car gets close enough to ask the driver why he's speeding at them before opening fire.
If cars speeding at me = suicide bomber a majority of the time... I'd shoot too. I'd feel bad about it but it doesn't mean I was wrong to shoot before waiting for the car to come close and most likely blow me up.



Its understandable that he missed the the warnings of a checkpoint... but hes gotta be paying attention to the road too... if hes speeding and not watching where hes going... thats a danger to everyone in the car.

This is certainly a tragedy but nobody was in the wrong... just an unfortunate accident.

Agreed.

Oh I see...
nice... but the point is the driver did not see anyone signalling to stop, that does not mean there was NOONE there signalling to stop.
Did he see the Checkpoint?
I will wait for the investigation to be over.

or pushes a patriot missile launch button

thats was our plane you arsehole.. iraqis dont have harriers
what? slightly off topic, but i'd like to hear more...


but yeah the americans shoot before they think. tbh if they were a little more like the british soldiers then there would be far less car bombings and this preggers killing wouldnt have occured
tbh (and i hate that acronym) if they were more like british soldiers, they'd be beating up kids for throwing rocks at them (tit for tat and all that)

and you can whine oh the americans have far more dangerous places than the british, but tbh this is because of the way the british have handled their citys they havent created such a tense atmosphere with the civilians( i.e. the whole soft hat thing).
it's not whining when it's the truth. The americans are covering the more dangerous places... you know... the places where there were Saddam loyalists and the border closest to Syria...

No, they don't. They acted in a reasonable and responsible manner. Stopping at a military checkpoint isn't optional. Failing to stop is an exercise in terminal stupidity. Those women died from their own stupidity, not from any criminal act. Good riddance. Fewer stupid genes floating around the old Iraqi gene pool.
to be fair, the two women died from the Driver's stupidity (or lack of attention.) The driver lived to be inattentive at a later date.

This was an unfortunate loss of life that seems preventable. We do not know for certain exactly what mistakes were made, but schadenfreude is simply uncalled for. I don't see why anyone would be cheery about the situation the family is in and the situation the Marines are now in.
The tone of the original post in this thread just pissed me off a bit and that often results in me acting like an asshole.

Anyone who tries to spin this to make it look like the US is the bad guys in this situation is fooling themselves. I can understand why the guy was speeding his wife was in labor and all. However, he does what must suicide bombers do and the US has the right to protect themselves. I would have shot, no one could have known who was in the car. Its not the end of world, time to move on.

and the truth comes out. You're for anything against American soldiers there.

Yes. Believing that american soldiers should have never been sent there to kill and die is really anti-american soldiers. Youre an idiot.

or pushes a patriot missile launch button

thats was our plane you arsehole.. iraqis dont have harriers


but yeah the americans shoot before they think. tbh if they were a little more like the british soldiers then there would be far less car bombings and this preggers killing wouldnt have occured

and you can whine oh the americans have far more dangerous places than the british, but tbh this is because of the way the british have handled their citys they havent created such a tense atmosphere with the civilians( i.e. the whole soft hat thing).


well said i couldnt have said it better ( unless i put f\/ck!ng between even and be)
forward korea:sniper:

Wow. grow up. If i remember correctly there was a vid of a couple brits beating a kid that surfaced recently. Get a little experience and lose the blind nationalism or get lost.

Yes. Believing that american soldiers should have never been sent there to kill and die is really anti-american soldiers. Youre an idiot.
It is kinda of unAmerican. You should support the war effort whenever your nation is at war. Just my take.

Yes. Believing that american soldiers should have never been sent there to kill and die is really anti-american soldiers. Youre an idiot.
an idiot? that the best retort you can come up w/?

wow, i'm no longer going to even respond to you.

Yes. Believing that american soldiers should have never been sent there to kill and die is really anti-american soldiers. Youre an idiot.

I've noticed the crux of your argument is calling people idiots. How about you leave the schoolyard tactics at home and you come with something more compelling.

It is kinda of unAmerican. You should support the war effort whenever your nation is at war. Just my take.

Our country was founded on and by people who speak up when they don't agree. One can support our troops while trying to bring them home from an unjust war (assuming one believes the war is unjust). What is unAmerican is trying to silence people who have something to say that you don't like.

you know using one side of the story to base opinions on is sorta bad politics?

Well gee, I guess that means that waging war and fighting against an insurgency is an ugly and imperfect process - who'd have thought it. Thank goodness we have shocking revelations like some of the ones on this thread to remind us of the fact that sometimes when people are given highly dangerous, highly stressful tasks to do in an alien environment they do in fact sometimes get it wrong.

The cause we are fighting for is civilised. War never will be no matter how zealously the armed forces are regulated.

The soldiers didnt even signal to stop.


And how in gods name would you know? All checkpoints have large signs that read stop in English and Arabic, barbed wire, large concrete barriers, and soldiers that are putting their hands out telling you to stop. A large percentage of soldier deaths are caused by suicide bombers at checkpoints. If a car is coming at you at full speed, and does not respond to hand signals, or warning shots, soldiers have no choice but to shoot, it is policy. My heart goes out to the famliy who were killed, its terrible that people die, however, the soldiers dont have much choice but to shoot after a certain point.


You can flame me all you want, but thats the truth.


My heart goes out to all who die in war.

Perhaps we could organise an exchange of views between Pat Robertson and this Iraqi, they seem to have similar views...

and there's the advantage that he might not come back...

This seems to be a classic "no-win" situation.

This seems to be a classic "no-win" situation.

Yes. In the worst way. If those who are anti-Bush or anti-American government really want to make an argument from this it would be that this is precisely why it is so important that we carefully consider any war options. This, exactly this, is the cost of war and seems so often to be overlooked when one argues to go to war.

Its understandable that he missed the the warnings of a checkpoint... but hes gotta be paying attention to the road too... if hes speeding and not watching where hes going... thats a danger to everyone in the car.

This is certainly a tragedy but nobody was in the wrong... just an unfortunate accident.

That's a good way to start an accident, so for all we know when he got past the checkpoint he might have wrecked his car anyway and killed them also...

It's sad that he just kept going, I'm sure there was a Medic nearby. Sure they might have shot him if he got up but I bet if they looked in the car and saw the Women they would have been able to help them sooner, and maybe help them survive...


*Snip about the Blotched Iraq plans*
Agreed.

It is kinda of unAmerican. You should support the war effort whenever your nation is at war. Just my take.

I totally agree, thats why I supported Saddam Hussein when he was in power, and I also supported his invasion of Kuwait and his gassing of the Kurds, as well as the counter-resistance against the Shia's. I have to because otherwise I would be Un-Iraqi, you have to support the war effort whenever your nation is at war.

Notice how much of an idiot I would sound like if I acutally believed that? Thats what you're sounding like now. Its funny how its in a democratic country that you find the most "have-to" support for war efforts.

It is kinda of unAmerican. You should support the war effort whenever your nation is at war. Just my take.

Yes, being a mindless drone who supports any war effort ones nation is in, even if it's founded on lies, intelligent. Not. Though I am for the US and allied forces to stay in Iraq. Not because I think you do an even half decent job...simpy because you would make it even worse by going home. It's about chosing between two different evils...the slightly lesser one is slightly better after all. It's a very poorly planned war, it was started with lies and is getting worse (it seems). Bush and his hawk morons for advisors should be shot, flogged and shot again. I just pity the poor soldiers who have to make do with such a shitty administration.

And it only gets worse.

This one (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060531/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_women_killed_7) is even more recent. I'd like to see the excuses for this one.

Dramization
Soldier: I'm going to use my Mental Powers to know exactly what's in that car speeding right towards the Road block!
Soldier: It's just people needing the hospital!
Soldier2: IT'S COMING RIGHT AT US.
......

Let's see, Car speeding towards a road block, usually cars speeding towards roadblocks intend to cause harm, if they had only slowed the heck down. But they say bullet holes were in the windshield... That's suspious, and if they were trying to kill someone wouldn't they have hit the Driver? Something doesn't add up in my opinion.
Another Dramaization:
Soldier: It's coming right at us, don't shoot the driver or the wheels or the engine, Shoot the passengers!
Soldier2: Sure that'll stop them!

Makes no sense.

I what I wrote there sums it up for me.

I totally agree, thats why I supported Saddam Hussein when he was in power, and I also supported his invasion of Kuwait and his gassing of the Kurds, as well as the counter-resistance against the Shia's. I have to because otherwise I would be Un-Iraqi, you have to support the war effort whenever your nation is at war.

Notice how much of an idiot I would sound like if I acutally believed that? Thats what you're sounding like now. Its funny how its in a democratic country that you find the most "have-to" support for war efforts.

Nicely said. *applauds*

*edit*
It is unfortunat that democracies don't really get that more peaceful than other countries. the only upside is that a democracy never wages war against another one. Well...this far.

I totally agree, thats why I supported Saddam Hussein when he was in power, and I also supported his invasion of Kuwait and his gassing of the Kurds, as well as the counter-resistance against the Shia's. I have to because otherwise I would be Un-Iraqi, you have to support the war effort whenever your nation is at war.

Notice how much of an idiot I would sound like if I acutally believed that? Thats what you're sounding like now. Its funny how its in a democratic country that you find the most "have-to" support for war efforts.

As an American, I find this to be an excellent point. How does one argue that blindly following the leadership is the only way to be a 'true American'? If you question the powers that be, you know like a democratic country then you're a danger to democracy. Amusingly, it's often the exact same people that argue that other countries are not democratic because they suppress dissent.

Hypocrisy, thou dost poison the mightiest of souls.

(Not sure what that last part means, but it makes my post more interesting, no?)

As an American, I find this to be an excellent point. How does one argue that blindly following the leadership is the only way to be a 'true American'? If you question the powers that be, you know like a democratic country then you're a danger to democracy. Amusingly, it's often the exact same people that argue that other countries are not democratic because they suppress dissent.

Hypocrisy, thou dost poison the mightiest of souls.

(Not sure what that last part means, but it makes my post more interesting, no?)
Oh, fascinating. ;)

Plus there's that whole thing about how the USA was created by a revolution against government authority, and now look. Ironic, ain't it?

People, SETTLE DOWN!

What we have here are 2 vague articles that are very skimpy on details. The simple fact is that we do not know weather or not the American troops gave signals to stop. No one knows.

How about we reserve judgement untill we have all the facts.

How about we reserve judgement untill we have all the facts.
Reality check: this is NSG. Nobody reserves judgement, ever.

Not to sound prickly, TSI - I'm just sayin'.

Reality check: this is NSG. Nobody reserves judgment, ever.

Not to sound prickly, TSI - I'm just sayin'.

Sigh...I figured so. I just thought we might, just once, not jump to conclusions, one way or another. Ya know, just to try it out.

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women — one of them about to give birth — when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in a city north of Baghdad, Iraqi officials and relatives said Wednesday.

Nabiha Nisaif Jassim, 35, was being raced to the maternity hospital in Samarra by her brother when the shooting occurred Tuesday.

Jassim, the mother of two children, and her 57-year-old cousin, Saliha Mohammed Hassan, were killed by the U.S. forces, according to police Capt. Laith Mohammed and witnesses.

((just insert the usual US military excuses here..))

Jassim's brother, who was wounded by broken glass, said he did not see any warnings as he sped his sister to the hospital. Her husband was waiting for her there.

"I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans. It was not until they shot the two bullets that killed my sister and cousin that I stopped," he said. "God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives."

source AOL.com / AP.

Comment.. If I was from Iraq, I would probably feel just like Jassim's Brother.
OccdNews©2006

LMAO, this isnt biased at all. you take an article and edit it without providing a link to the full article. only want to share the facts you like?

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women — one of them about to give birth — when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in a city north of Baghdad, Iraqi officials and relatives said Wednesday.

Nabiha Nisaif Jassim, 35, was being raced to the maternity hospital in Samarra by her brother when the shooting occurred Tuesday.

Jassim, the mother of two children, and her 57-year-old cousin, Saliha Mohammed Hassan, were killed by the U.S. forces, according to police Capt. Laith Mohammed and witnesses.

((just insert the usual US military excuses here..))

Jassim's brother, who was wounded by broken glass, said he did not see any warnings as he sped his sister to the hospital. Her husband was waiting for her there.

"I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans. It was not until they shot the two bullets that killed my sister and cousin that I stopped," he said. "God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives."

source AOL.com / AP.

Comment.. If I was from Iraq, I would probably feel just like Jassim's Brother.
OccdNews©2006

This is just a reverted suicide bomber...they don't stop and give themselves up to die so they can harm the americans....

Should have stopped. This isn't like Houston where they have fast passes.

Soldiers have a duty to at least attempt to distinguish between friend and foe

They are, a friend stops at a checkpoint. Checkpoints have been there for years now, there is no excuse for not knowing to stop.

Well they weren't so it's murder

The soldiers didn't know. THGH (INSURGENTS) HAVE USED PREGNANT WOMEN as suicide bombers before.


The soldiers didnt even signal to stop.

Checkpoint.

Yeah. You too would fail in your duty.

In what way does this support your "justice has been done" statement? It doesn't.

Hell, they should have stopped. Perhaps there was a THGH (Insurgent) watching and they know that approaching at a high rate of speed will get them killed? Rule of law...