NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, they were attacking him. He was armed with a knife, and they had a shotgun and more.

It's the man, not the weapon, that makes him deadly.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/0530marine.html

Now I'll sit back and wait for the liberal handwringing about how he should have let them shoot him with the shotgun instead of defending himself.

correct me if im wrong but isnt this the 3rd time this story was posted?

correct me if im wrong but isnt this the 3rd time this story was posted?
Yep.

Yep.


just making sure

just making sure
that's ok - how could I let this go by - a US soldier killing people, and DK must post.

that's ok - how could I let this go by - a US soldier killing people, and DK must post.


hey i almost posted the story myself, i know how you feel.

Now I'll sit back and wait for the liberal handwringing about how he should have let them shoot him with the shotgun instead of defending himself.
That isn't liberal handwringing, thats idiocy. And before you say it, yes, there is a difference;)

Now I'll sit back and wait for the liberal handwringing about how he should have let them shoot him with the shotgun instead of defending himself.

Grow up.

correct me if im wrong but isnt this the 3rd time this story was posted?

No WMD, no smiling Iraqi faces and a Marine massacre - he's got shake the little hes got for all its worth.

Of course that might make it fall off, but there ye go.....

That isn't liberal handwringing, thats idiocy. And before you say it, yes, there is a difference;)

After that, I have to say, "Let the liberal idiocy begin, then."

Sorry, it was too easy.

Grow up.
Having just returned from the UK, I have the distinct feeling that the Marine, had he defended himself in exactly the same situation with a knife in the UK, would be in jail right now, facing murder charges.

Yeah its the third time- that doesnt stop many other threads though.

Its all according to what you wanna hear. I cant get tired of this story.

This marine is a hero and should get an award. He was the last in a list of other victims officials believe the same gang of scumbags preyed upon.

For some, he was truly the last.

After that, I have to say, "Let the liberal idiocy begin, then."

Sorry, it was too easy.
:headbang:

:p

Having just returned from the UK, I have the distinct feeling that the Marine, had he defended himself in exactly the same situation with a knife in the UK, would be in jail right now, facing murder charges.

Having lived in the UK for my entire life I have the distinct feeling that you're wrong. This would easily be covered by the 'reasonable force' clause, the CPS would be laughed out of court if they tried to prosecute.

Yeah its the third time- that doesnt stop many other threads though.

Its all according to what you wanna hear. I cant get tired of this story.

This marine is a hero and should get an award. He was the last in a list of other victims officials believe the same gang of scumbags preyed upon.

For some, he was truly the last.
I don't disagree that he acted out of self-defence, but an award? Not even he seems to think that his actions are award-worthy, rather a necessary evil.

Having lived in the UK for my entire life I have the distinct feeling that you're wrong. This would easily be covered by the 'reasonable force' clause, the CPS would be laughed out of court if they tried to prosecute.

Being Americans on business, we had a briefing by the Metropolitan Police.

In this case, the man had the ability to run away. Regardless of how the criminals are armed, or how many times they have an opportunity to shoot at you, if you are outdoors you MUST run away instead of defending yourself.

Just called the office over there in Holborn to confirm - it's written policy of the police there, and written policy of our company to brief employees on such matters there.

In this case, the man had the ability to run away. Regardless of how the criminals are armed, or how many times they have an opportunity to shoot at you, if you are outdoors you MUST run away instead of defending yourself.

He did (try to) run away. He only fought when he was surrounded and unable to run away...

And this is the 4th thread of counted for the story...

He did (try to) run away. He only fought when he was surrounded and unable to run away...

According to the policeman we spoke to in London at our briefing, even if you are surrounded, if you are out of doors, you are still considered "able to run away". Even if people are pointing guns at you at close range. Even if they are holding hostages and threatening them if you move.

You nearly ALWAYS have the ability to run away in the UK.

I don't disagree that he acted out of self-defence, but an award? Not even he seems to think that his actions are award-worthy, rather a necessary evil.

i must agree... an award.. wth... ok.. that's one less guy going after him.. sure. but that's not cause for an award

now if he killed a guy that had a bomb that could take out a whole building with innocent people and the rest of his squad in it.... yeah. that might get an award

I don't disagree that he acted out of self-defence, but an award? Not even he seems to think that his actions are award-worthy, rather a necessary evil.

He single handedly ended a small crime wave. This group had preyed upon others and would have gone on, if they hadnt been stopped sop dramatically.

Give him an award.

According to the policeman we spoke to in London at our briefing, even if you are surrounded, if you are out of doors, you are still considered "able to run away". Even if people are pointing guns at you at close range. Even if they are holding hostages and threatening them if you move.

Were did you get this idea? Who has actually told you that in the above situation it would have occured. Who could say you can run away when surrounded? Now, if he had stabbed one guy or more guys, and so made a likely escape route for himself, but still stayed around to finish the others off, yeah, but I dont think any police officers would make a fuss. They may have advised that it would have been better to give them what they wanted if they were robbing you or something (I believe general police advice is not to resist muggers etc, at least in Britain, as it makes it more likely they will use force, possibly even lethal). And it might have possibly been that the officer was exaggerating the rules he told you, so as reinforce differences between the States.

And even if you right it is highly unlikely he would have been successfully prosecuted for defending himself. He may have been charged, but what jury would prosecute him? Even over here in Britain.

He may have been charged, and possibly successfully prosecuted, with possession of a deadly weapon, but not for defending himself, and that is a seperate issue.

Now I'll sit back and wait for the liberal handwringing about how he should have let them shoot him with the shotgun instead of defending himself.
How about you wait for the part where we call you a troll. Again.

By the way, the way you post, you might want to change your sig to say "straw man" instead of man, seeing as how you burn them up so well.

Good for him. Killing people sucks, but I can imagine in his situation he believed that the only courses of action were either attacking them or getting killed. Of course, if he'd had a gun there would have been much less risk to him. He was damned lucky that .38 misfired.

He was also lucky that the guy with the shotgun was stupid enough to get close enough to have it taken away from him. Again, if he'd had a gun that wouldn't have been an issue either. I'm willing to bet that if those robbers knew that they were risking their lives for a wallet and a cell phone they wouldn't have been quite so eager.

How about you wait for the part where we call you a troll. Again.

By the way, the way you post, you might want to change your sig to say "straw man" instead of man, seeing as how you burn them up so well.

No difference between your posting of something Pat Robertson or Bush says, and making gross generalizations, and then hoping that some poor fool will defend the idiocy of people in high places. (emphasis on "high").

Damn those Marines are good at delivering death. This guy is amazing... I'd have liked to see that fight (hopefully on video as live would be too scary)

He single handedly ended a small crime wave. This group had preyed upon others and would have gone on, if they hadnt been stopped sop dramatically.

Give him an award.
I don't know...I mean, yes, his actions were impressive, but had I done those same actions (wow...talk about unrealistic hypotheticals) I don't think an award would even be an option. The man did what he had to do to protect himself. The effect was far greater, but he was acting in self interest, not to end a crime wave

There's no reason to say that he should or shouldn't get an award. The only reason, I think, that this story is getting such high publicity is the fact that he is a Marine, and that he killed a woman and fatally stabbed a guy, managed to disarm the guy with the shotgun, and that the guy with the .38 missed at such close range. He should be commended for ending a crime spree, but he shouldn't be considered a hero by his standards. Heroism is made up of many virtues, and the courage he displayed is only one.

There's no reason to say that he should or shouldn't get an award. The only reason, I think, that this story is getting such high publicity is the fact that he is a Marine, and that he killed a woman and fatally stabbed a guy, managed to disarm the guy with the shotgun, and that the guy with the .38 missed at such close range. He should be commended for ending a crime spree, but he shouldn't be considered a hero by his standards. Heroism is made up of many virtues, and the courage he displayed is only one.
Mr. Autry has the right amount of humility to be a hero. Notice the contrast between him and other self-proclaimed "heros" with many more decorations.

Now I'll sit back and wait for the liberal handwringing about how he should have let them shoot him with the shotgun instead of defending himself.
Or the quotes from the family of the dead girl that testify to what a 'good' girl she was and she just couldn't have done anything terrible.

Well, they were attacking him. He was armed with a knife, and they had a shotgun and more.

Now I'll sit back and wait for the liberal handwringing about how he should have let them shoot him with the shotgun instead of defending himself.
Well, any one with any sense of justice would at least investigate how a man with a tiny pen knife managed to kill someone in a gang of people armed with a 'shotgun and more'.

In fact, you've just made the strongest case against gun ownership; they're obviously useless. Scrap your guns and buy a flick knife.

This marine is a hero and should get an award.
Give people who kill others who they don't know really well medals! Hurrah! Medals for psychos everywhere!

He single handedly ended a small crime wave. This group had preyed upon others and would have gone on, if they hadnt been stopped sop dramatically.

Give him an award.

Do you really think a 36 year old ex-Marine wants a fucking award for being forced to kill a 17 year old girl? To hell with an award, give the man a bottle and let him be.

I do wonder why the 17 year old girl got stabbed when she wasn't even holding a weapon. Shouldnt the Marine have bloodied the weapon holders first and foremost?

I do wonder why the 17 year old girl got stabbed when she wasn't even holding a weapon. Shouldnt the Marine have bloddied the weapon holders first and foremost?
The AJC story says that she jumped on him. Other than that, I'd chalk it up to the confusion that always exists in a fight.

I do wonder why the 17 year old girl got stabbed when she wasn't even holding a weapon. Shouldnt the Marine have bloddied the weapon holders first and foremost?

It was dark. He was scared. Melee combat isn't as orderly as Hollywood makes it look. Survival was all he could possibly hope to acheive.

Give people who kill others who they don't know really well medals! Hurrah! Medals for psychos everywhere!


Hows he a "psycho" ? He tried to run away with them drooling and snapping at his heels. They wouldnt just let him go. One had a pistol, the other had a shotgun. He defended himself and put them out of commission. Some permanently.
This group is wanted in connection with several other similar attacks. And its reasonable to believe if they werent stopped cold this time, they would have continued.
He did a great public service here.

He may have saved you mother or grandmother from being victimized.

good points and what I originally thought (and am not disputing - I just like to play devils advocate so nobody get defensive over my questioning of the Marines actions as I applaud his courage and abilities), but I am sure that this marine was in much more control of the situation than the kids he was defending himself from (seeing as how well trained the Marines are in hand to hand combat as well as weapons training *this includes knives I believe*). I don't believe that he would be jabbing his knife into thin air either. Considering that he was able to kick the shotgun out of one guys hands shows that he knew who had the weapon, and therefore the greatest threat.

Give people who kill others who they don't know really well medals! Hurrah! Medals for psychos everywhere!

Odd as it is, I'm on their side for this. He tried to run away, they persued. He defended himself. Case closed.

Self-defence and all that. He's lucky he had some training.

Do you really think a 36 year old ex-Marine wants a fucking award for being forced to kill a 17 year old girl? To hell with an award, give the man a bottle and let him be.
:( "Lucky"... It is indeed an unfortunate situation for everybody involved.

Odd as it is, I'm on their side for this. He tried to run away, they persued. He defended himself. Case closed.


I'm glad you understand that and agree. This guy tried to take the path of least resistance and not hurt anyone, but was outnumbered,chased and cornered. He did what he was left with no choice but to do.

He's lucky he had some training.


And a knife of course...

And a knife of course...
I'm wondering if it would have helped him if he had no training?

I'm wondering if it would have helped him if he had no training?
Y'all realize he was a cook in the Marine Corps, don't you? We aren't talking about a Recon Marine, or even a grunt. Just a cook. I suspect the 'training' happened before the Marine Corps.

And a knife of course...

Which would have been useless had the pistol not misfired.

He got lucky.

Y'all realize he was a cook in the Marine Corps, don't you? We aren't talking about a Recon Marine, or even a grunt. Just a cook. I suspect the 'training' happened before the Marine Corps.

Out of all those types of marines. Which one will be the most likely to use a knife on a day to day basis. :p


(Sigh, sorry for being so glib and facetious tonight)

Out of all those types of marines. Which one will be the most likely to use a knife on a day to day basis. :p


(Sigh, sorry for being so glib and facetious tonight)
Ya got me there, pal. :)

Y'all realize he was a cook in the Marine Corps, don't you? We aren't talking about a Recon Marine, or even a grunt. Just a cook. I suspect the 'training' happened before the Marine Corps.

Just a cook?

Now you see why he is so blood thirsty *G*

Noone ever took the cook seriously.. then one day a few punk kids helped to unleash his fury. Furry Fury*

*pay no attention to this

Y'all realize he was a cook in the Marine Corps, don't you? We aren't talking about a Recon Marine, or even a grunt. Just a cook. I suspect the 'training' happened before the Marine Corps.

Just a cook, that was what Commander Krill said about Casey Ryback, and who came out victorious in that duel?

And who made an even worse movie later? And is making yet another "Under Siege" movie? You guessed it: The cook!

(No, I don't really know what I'm on about either...)

Do you really think a 36 year old ex-Marine wants a fucking award for being forced to kill a 17 year old girl? To hell with an award, give the man a bottle and let him be.

I think this may be the most intelligent thing I've ever seen on NS General.

Y'all realize he was a cook in the Marine Corps, don't you? We aren't talking about a Recon Marine, or even a grunt. Just a cook. I suspect the 'training' happened before the Marine Corps.

I guess you didn't get the memo that every Marine is a rifleman. Every cook is trained to fight. They all have to attain a belt in Marine martial arts.

I guess you didn't get the memo that every Marine is a rifleman. Every cook is trained to fight. They all have to attain a belt in Marine martial arts.
We said the same thing when I was in. There was no such thing as Marine martial arts. Everyone left boot camp for A schools with just 12 weeks of practice at following orders. When I went to OCS, it wasn't much different, except that we sat in class for more hours.

The Marine martial arts thing is a good idea. Which Commandant started it?

We said the same thing when I was in. There was no such thing as Marine martial arts. Everyone left boot camp for A schools with just 12 weeks of practice at following orders. When I went to OCS, it wasn't much different, except that we sat in class for more hours.

The Marine martial arts thing is a good idea. Which Commandant started it?


Henderson?

Henderson?
Clever guess, but my career in the Marine Corps didn't preceed his.

The answer is General James L. Jones and the methods were introduced in 1999, to be Corps-wide in 2003. Well after Mr Autry's time in service, as well.

There's a good article at this link. http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0102/010402nj2.htm

Boxing gloves and padded headgear are not the weapons that any Marine would choose for jobs such as hunting down Al Qaeda in Afghanistan or executing amphibious landings on hostile shores. But in the fog of war, close-in combat is always a possibility, notes Lt. Col. George H. Bristol, "starting with assault-rifle fire at maybe 10 yards and moving in to where you're fighting with the weapon, being up in an enemy's face and having to either smash him or take him to the ground to finish him off."

Y'all realize he was a cook in the Marine Corps, don't you? We aren't talking about a Recon Marine, or even a grunt. Just a cook. I suspect the 'training' happened before the Marine Corps.


Just a cook ? Cooks go through basic training and are combat infantry men .

just a cook ? A MARINE cook ...:D