NationStates Jolt Archive

I think you might find this little gem very interesting. I particularly like how he just takes over the discussion about the Holocaust, and the poor interviewers have to defend themselves...:p

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html
SPIEGEL: Mr. President, you are a soccer fan and you like to play soccer. Will you be sitting in the stadium in Nuremberg on June 11, when the Iranian national team plays against Mexico in Germany?

Ahmadinejad: It depends. Naturally, I'll be watching the game in any case. I don't know yet whether I'll be at home in front of the television set or somewhere else. My decision depends upon a number of things.

SPIEGEL: For example?

Ahmadinejad: How much time I have, how the state of various relationships are going, whether I feel like it and a number of other things.

SPIEGEL: There was great indignation in Germany when it became known that you might be coming to the soccer world championship. Did that surprise you?

Ahmadinejad: No, that's not important. I didn't even understand how that came about. It also had no meaning for me. I don't know what all the excitement is about.

SPIEGEL: It concerned your remarks about the Holocaust. It was inevitable that the Iranian president's denial of the systematic murder of the Jews by the Germans would trigger outrage.

Ahmadinejad: I don't exactly understand the connection.

*continues*

Any thoughts? Did this change your view of Ahmadinejad, or confirm it?

What it told me: Ahmadinejad likes soccer.

You learn something new everyday :p

He and Hitler would've gotten on quite famously together. Especially over a cup of tea.

He's clever. I'll give him that.

His "rational, moderate" approach to Holocaust denial makes it all the more reprehensible.

As for the rest, it's just the typical dodging of a politician, and not much can be gleamed from it.

What it told me: Ahmadinejad likes soccer.
Come on, it's two pages long. ;)

But just for you:
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,589274,00.jpg

Come on, it's two pages long. ;)

But just for you:
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,589274,00.jpg
So when he's not contemplating nuclear warfare and denying the Holocaust, he is just like the rest of us...well you heteros, anyway. :p

Come on, it's two pages long. ;)

But just for you:
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,589274,00.jpg

Is it just me or does that look like a rockette kicking?

So when he's not contemplating nuclear warfare and denying the Holocaust, he is just like the rest of us...well you heteros, anyway. :p


Looks more like a rockette to me.

Looks more like a rockette to me.
A rockette? Not sure what that is. He looks like an ugly little goblin to me.

A rockette? Not sure what that is. He looks like an ugly little goblin to me.


this would be him as a rockette

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8097/rockettes1ew.gif

this would be him as a rockette

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8097/rockettes1ew.gif


That is fricking hilarious!

Ahmadinejad is a total dick, but you know, every time he opens his mouth, he says something that makes me like him a little bit more, unfortunately.

Ahmadinejad: No, I have a question for you. What kind of a role did today's youth play in World War II?

SPIEGEL: None.

Ahmadinejad: Why should they have feelings of guilt toward Zionists? Why should the costs of the Zionists be paid out of their pockets? If people committed crimes in the past, then they would have to have been tried 60 years ago. End of story! Why must the German people be humiliated today because a group of people committed crimes in the name of the Germans during the course of history?

SPIEGEL: The German people today can't do anything about it. But there is a sort of collective shame for those deeds done in the German name by our fathers or grandfathers.

Ahmadinejad: How can a person who wasn't even alive at the time be held legally responsible?

SPIEGEL: Not legally but morally.

Ahmadinejad: Why is such a burden heaped on the German people? The German people of today bear no guilt. Why are the German people not permitted the right to defend themselves? Why are the crimes of one group emphasized so greatly, instead of highlighting the great German cultural heritage? Why should the Germans not have the right to express their opinion freely?

He controlled the interview very well. He never actually directly answered a question & quite often turned the question back on the interviewers.

Bump.

*snip*
Yeah, I agree with you on this one. He made sense in that bit.

when did he actually deny the holocaust happened?

he is saying that europeans did it, europeans should fix it and leave the arabs out of it. somewhat different.

I think you might find this little gem very interesting. I particularly like how he just takes over the discussion about the Holocaust, and the poor interviewers have to defend themselves...:p

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html


Any thoughts? Did this change your view of Ahmadinejad, or confirm it?
It confirmed it.

It also confirmed my view of most Iranian voters, who voted for the guy.

And you all are constantly saying how crazy Bush is, or how stupid the American voters are.

I'm still waiting for those same people to say how crazy Ahmadinejad is, or how stupid the Iranian electorate is.

Up until now, I've only heard a constant barrage of apologies for the Iranian President.

I fail to see where he explicitly denied the holocaust or said Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth.

The statements of the Iranian president have been reflected by the media in a manipulated way. Irans president betokens the removal of the regimes, that are in power in Israel and in the USA, to be possible aim for the future. He never demands the elimination or annihilation of Israel.

As for the holocaust, he stated that if the Western states really believe in the assassination of six million jews in WWII they should put a piece of land in Europe, in the US, Canada or Alaska at Israel's disposal. He is saying that the Palestinians shouldnt be punished for what was done.

what kazus said.


he is clearly being lined up by the neo-cons and their lickspittles in the press regardless of facts. remind you of anyone?

you might disagree with him, but the speeches he made have been verifyibly translated and he did not claim the holocaust never happened or that israel as a state should be 'wiped off the map'

anyone who thinks he did presumably thinks iraq had nukes too.

he did not claim the holocaust never happened or that israel as a state should be 'wiped off the map'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4527142.stm

"They have created a myth today that they call the massacre of Jews and they consider it a principle above God, religions and the prophets," he said.

Sounds like Holocaust denial to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4527142.stm



Sounds like Holocaust denial to me.

"Now the question is where the people who commit these crimes and are now rulers in Palestine and permit themselves to carry on such crimes, to displace and imprison the local residents of the land have come from. Where are their fathers from? Where had they been for thousands of years? How is it that they now have the right to self-determination but the nation which has been living in the land for thousands of years, does not have such a right?"
Ahmadinejad said another question he raised there was why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crimes the Europeans have committed.

"If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions."
Stressing that "the same European countries have imposed the illegally-established Zionist regime on the oppressed nation of Palestine", he said, "If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.

"Then the Iranian nation will have no objections, will stage no rallies on the Qods Day and will support your decision."
Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets because when a person expresses disbelief in God, religion and prophets they do not object to him but they will protest to anyone who would reject the Holocaust.

He said those who claim to be advocates of freedom of expression, democracy and human rights take advantage of propaganda means in the face of his vivid and documented reasoning and criticize him and say Iran's president seems to be incapable of living in a civilized world.

The president further said, "If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing
justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization."

He is criticizing the exploitation of the holocaust, not the holocaust itself.

He is criticizing the exploitation of the holocaust, not the holocaust itself.
In previous interviews, he describes the Holocaust as a "myth".

Pretty obvious denial.

I guess it is difficult to interview a complete lunatic. Spiegel did a decent job with the interview, but the Iranian leader seem incapable of taking responsiblity for his previous statements. I hate how he tries to use logic to rationalize his words.

While I wouldn't want Ahmadinajad to be my head of state, I won't hop on the bandwagon of his opponents. Iran's nuclear ambition scares me, but this is not something he started. And while Ahmadinejad is made to look funny, the people who voted him sure as hell aren't. For pretty obvious reasons these people are scared by the US presence on their borders, and the threat of forced democracy isn't alien to them. Right now they are wedged between two US controlled countries. I'd be pretty scared to if China controlled Belgium and Germany as puppets. Of course Iranians would vote into power someone with guts. I simply have a dreadful feeling those guts will be spilled soon of the rhetoric keeps up and the nuclear talks keep going. Last time Bush had to wait for progress in an WMD case he terror bombed a whole country into anarchy. I bet you 5 to 1 Iran might actually be honest about not persueing nuclear weapons, just like Saddam who wasn't believed either.

In previous interviews, he describes the Holocaust as a "myth".

Pretty obvious denial.
I guess it is difficult to interview a complete lunatic. Spiegel did a decent job with the interview, but the Iranian leader seem incapable of taking responsiblity for his previous statements. I hate how he tries to use logic to rationalize his words.

the translation that appeared initially in a german paper and was repeated by other newspapers is hotly disputed.

the academics who translated it from persian say he was referring to what he believes is the israeli states exploitation of the holocaust to guilt europe and the us into supporting them against the palestinians.

you have been propagandised

you have been propagandised

And you're an apologist. I'm so glad that Quislings still exist.

President Ahmadinejad's got style. Unfortunatly neo-con lies prevent us from negotiating with this perfectly reational leader.

And you're an apologist. I'm so glad that Quislings still exist.

i most certainly am not an apologist but i have a zero tolerance of bullshit. he didnt say the things the right wing western press have claimed. its that simple.

and i would have to be iranian to be a quisling. if you are going to be a smartarse at least get your description right.

i most certainly am not an apologist but i have a zero tolerance of bullshit. he didnt say the things the right wing western press have claimed. its that simple.

I agree. The amount of bullshit spouted by the press (which I wouldn't describe as "left wing" or "right wing" but merely "paid for by lobbyists") about this man is utterly flabbergasting.

See what happens when you use "myth" and "holocaust" in the same sentence? Fox news thinks youre an anti-semite.

The man is a brilliant politician it must drive political opponents mad to debate with him

It also confirmed my view of most Iranian voters, who voted for the guy.

And you all are constantly saying how crazy Bush is, or how stupid the American voters are.

I'm still waiting for those same people to say how crazy Ahmadinejad is, or how stupid the Iranian electorate is.

I was recently reading an article about Ahmadinejad by a reporter who went to Iran.

What struck me is the reasons that people gave for voting for Ahmadinejad. They were an echo of the reasons that Americans gave for voting for Bush. Turns out that Americans aren't the only ones with nationalist pride.