NationStates Jolt Archive

People throughout Latin America are now rejecting the evil ways of the vile Chavez dictatorship.

His friend and close ally in Peru is losing the Peruvian election because of his ties to Chavez and fears he will destroy the economy by trying to nationalize industry:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12250585/

In Colombia, where Chavez condemned the duly elected government, for the first in a hundred years an incumbent won reelection by a landslide whereby defeating another Chavez ally. Uribe was credited with an 81% reduction in violence. That makes Venezuela and its ally Brazil the two most violent and unsafe nations in the whole western hemisphere.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12976176/
Yeah, so the leftists, who don't care about anything but giving away free welfare programs for lazy people who don't deserve it, are afraid Uribe doesn't spend enough on welfare. But the election in Colombia proves one thing that has been proven over and over but that the libs and socialists are just to ignorant to fathom: when violent crime is sky high, people don't give dam about social welfare. They want someone who brings law and order. Uribe brought crime down 81% since Colombia's election. Colombia also had a much higher turn than Venezuela did in its last referendum to keep Chavez who was the only candidate on the ballot. Uribe had 3 opponents, both of whome he smashed. The people rewarded his anticrime and antiviolence programs by almost overwhelmingly voting to keep him in office.
While Venezuela spirals into decay and gangster criminal violence, Uribe is making Colombia the safest nation in South America. The economy is doing better than Venezuela's too.
And I just love this part:
"Opponents accuse the president of focusing his war on Colombia’s left-wing rebels and their ties to drug-trafficking, while allowed the country’s murderous far-right paramilitaries to grow into a potent political force as they lay down arms in a government-brokered peace pact."
Maybe if the leftist agreed to a peace pack in which they laid down their arms too, they would be allowed to become a political party in Colombia. That's the difference. The rightists are laying down their arms and turning to peace. The left is not. The left wants to continue to kill people as they always have.

Praise God, who in his infinite wisdom, has decided to bring murderous era of Chavez revolutions to an end. And may he cast Chavez down from his pedestal upon which he has installed himself above all mankind, and his followers with him.
Amen


Law and Order, will always trump social welfare when you have high rates of crime and violence.
Under Chavez the Venezuela violent crime is the highests its ever been in Venezuela history. It won't be long before the people there get the courage to remove Chavez and replace him with someone who will make their country a safe place to live once again.

Has anyone ever seen a more biased article than this? (rhetorical question: I know you have, but seriously)

EDIT: At first I thought it might be sarcastic, but once I looked at it closely, it is either very deadpan facetiousness or sincere.

This is serious. God is doing what he said he was going to do. I posted this in that other Chavez thread when God told what he was going to do.

The left is going to lose Mexico also.

Are you Pat Robertson?

Just as long as Juanes (http://www.juanes.net/archive/noticias.cfm) continues song writing.

Chavez is a joke. And he keeps hooking the big-mouthed Liberal bass with garbage like "giving heating oil to the AMerican poor." Meanwhile, he runs Venezuela into the ground, and he is just one more reason the left in America is all wrong for America.

Sal y Limon, you might note that due largely to Chavez's socialist reforms, Venezuela now has one of the highest literacy rates in South America. Its economy has not collapsed, either, as people seem to think.

Living in the US, you hear some really messed-up stuff about Venezuela from people like Pat here (by now I'm at least 80% sure that this is Pat Robertson; the other 20% represents my unsureness as to whether Pat considers computers to be "Devil-machines".)

People throughout Latin America are now rejecting the evil ways of the vile Chavez dictatorship.

His friend and close ally in Peru is losing the Peruvian election because of his ties to Chavez and fears he will destroy the economy by trying to nationalize industry:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12250585/

In Colombia, where Chavez condemned the duly elected government, for the first in a hundred years an incumbent won reelection by a landslide whereby defeating another Chavez ally. Uribe was credited with an 81% reduction in violence. That makes Venezuela and its ally Brazil the two most violent and unsafe nations in the whole western hemisphere.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12976176/
Yeah, so the leftists, who don't care about anything but giving away free welfare programs for lazy people who don't deserve it, are afraid Uribe doesn't spend enough on welfare. But the election in Colombia proves one thing that has been proven over and over but that the libs and socialists are just to ignorant to fathom: when violent crime is sky high, people don't give dam about social welfare. They want someone who brings law and order. Uribe brought crime down 81% since Colombia's election. Colombia also had a much higher turn than Venezuela did in its last referendum to keep Chavez who was the only candidate on the ballot. Uribe had 3 opponents, both of whome he smashed. The people rewarded his anticrime and antiviolence programs by almost overwhelmingly voting to keep him in office.
While Venezuela spirals into decay and gangster criminal violence, Uribe is making Colombia the safest nation in South America. The economy is doing better than Venezuela's too.
And I just love this part:
"Opponents accuse the president of focusing his war on Colombia’s left-wing rebels and their ties to drug-trafficking, while allowed the country’s murderous far-right paramilitaries to grow into a potent political force as they lay down arms in a government-brokered peace pact."
Maybe if the leftist agreed to a peace pack in which they laid down their arms too, they would be allowed to become a political party in Colombia. That's the difference. The rightists are laying down their arms and turning to peace. The left is not. The left wants to continue to kill people as they always have.

Praise God, who in his infinite wisdom, has decided to bring murderous era of Chavez revolutions to an end. And may he cast Chavez down from his pedestal upon which he has installed himself above all mankind, and his followers with him.
Amen


Law and Order, will always trump social welfare when you have high rates of crime and violence.
Under Chavez the Venezuela violent crime is the highests its ever been in Venezuela history. It won't be long before the people there get the courage to remove Chavez and replace him with someone who will make their country a safe place to live once again.


You're completely full of crap. First of all, your bullshit 81% reduction is a farce. Read the article again, it clearly says 'According to a study by the independent Security and Democracy Foundation, 55 politically motivated murders and kidnappings were registered over the past 12 months — an 81 percent reduction from the year prior to the last elections' That, sir, is barely the surface of crime.
Also "While there has been a dramatic drop in kidnappings and murders under Uribe, an end to the violence perpetrated by leftist rebels remains elusive.

Rebels controlling huge tracts of the countryside have traditionally tried to assert their presence ahead of elections by increasing the number of attacks and politically motivated kidnappings." Both prove your argument moot and void. You just proved Colombia to be worse off than Venezuela.

Learn to read.

You know what, I'm not even going to bother to point out all the flaws and complete and utter shit you call ideals.

This is serious. God is doing what he said he was going to do. I posted this in that other Chavez thread when God told what he was going to do.

The left is going to lose Mexico also.
You know what I was going to provide a serious discussion, but you brought god into it.

Go Marry The UN abassadorship and have a bunch of Bush humpers, Idiot.

*Imagines Whitter huddling in a corner descrating a bible by kissing it while muttering. "Me am Smart, Me am Smart." *

Who cares what right-wing morons think? Ignore this.

Chavez is a joke. And he keeps hooking the big-mouthed Liberal bass with garbage like "giving heating oil to the AMerican poor." Meanwhile, he runs Venezuela into the ground, and he is just one more reason the left in America is all wrong for America.
What interesting is how he sends his nation's resources abroad, giving free oil to homeless people who have no place to use it, while he ignores the high crime rate in his own nation. America and Europe may have some poor families that can barely afford the heating oil they need, but neither of those places have a crime rate as high as Venezuela's is.
And his economic success is dependent solely on his oil, which he has decided to give away for free and in trying to turn the rest of South America into forced markets for his failed policies.
But the people of Colombia, Peru, Mexico and other countries have opened their eyes and see that the wicked witch does indeed come offering poisoned fruit.

Several things bother me about Chavez. First off, he claims to be a champion of the people, and all that. Representative, blah blah. But let's look at the facts, shall we?

Chavez has been consolidating his power since he took office. He's made it possible to push major legislation through Venezuela's senate with a simple, rather than 2/3 majority. He's filled the military with 'Chavistas' that support his regime, and has created another reservist military that is increasing in size every year.

He also is the head of the 'independant' organization that supervises elections, and through that he publishes peoples' voting habits online, complete with names. He is also the head of Venezuela's oil company, which is the major source of income for the country. He can thus affect the income of the government, and hold that over subordinates' heads when they disagree. There's more, but I can't find my copy of Foreign Policy that includes the article right now, sorry.

Edit: Ah, here it is.

-There is no senate. Rather, Chavez turned Venezuela's government from a bicameral into a unicameral one by dint of a constitution that he engineered and pushed thorugh the government.

-Like I said, simple rather than 2/3rds majority.

-His constitution did away with congressional control of the military. He's in charge of the regulars, as well as 2 million reservists. There is no governmental oversight besides himself.

-The election ministry again.

-He filled the supreme court with die-hard personal supporters.

I'd type the whole thing out in detail, but to be honest I'm too lazy.

Who cares what right-wing morons think? Ignore this.
Another fine example of left-wing argument strategy.

Another fine example of left-wing argument strategy.

Much like the right-wing's argument 'stratergy' of bringing in God and issues that aren't high priority in hopes of bringing in votes?

^
Because it's soo funny to mock Bush's speaking patters! Seriously, get some new jokes. That one's old.

Are you Pat Robertson?
Pat Robertson is a false prophet. God does not talk to him. But if you choose to follow Pat Robertson, even though you now know him to be a false prophet, that is your problem.

^
Because it's soo funny to mock Bush's speaking patters! Seriously, get some new jokes. That one's old.

I managed to bring in a right-winged politician's speaking patterns to subtley prove how miniscule the right-wing's ideals about issues are. All you managed to do was point it out...congratulations?

Pat Robertson is a false prophet. God does not talk to him. But if you choose to follow Pat Robertson, even though you now know him to be a false prophet, that is your problem.

Hypocrisy at its finest, ladies and gentlemen. Of course, Whittier knows who God talks or does not talk to.

I managed to bring in a right-winged politician's speaking patterns to subtley prove how miniscule the right-wing's ideals about issues are. All you managed to do was point it out...congratulations?

How does a person's lack of oratory skill prove a single thing? It doesn't even suggest anything, except that he may be uncomfortable in front of crowds. Do you honestly think that the mispronunciation of the word 'strategy' means anything insofar as political beliefs are concerned?

And I was pointing out that your joke was old. I figured that it was evident in my post. I'm sorry if it wasn't.

EDIT: Whittier, you're scaring me.

Aww.. I was hoping It would end with him getting nukes from Iran (as opposed to Russia) and every one goes into a big panic only to have Iran take the nukes back.:p

Hypocrisy at its finest, ladies and gentlemen. Of course, Whittier knows who God talks or does not talk to.
So. You are a follower of the false prophet.

Wait. Is this some kind of joke? Are you putting us on? Because seriously now Whittier, what basis do we have besides blind faith that God exists? And what basis, furthermore, do we have to say that Pat Robertson is/isn't a prophet, or that you are?

How does a person's lack of oratory skill prove a single thing? It doesn't even suggest anything, except that he may be uncomfortable in front of crowds. Do you honestly think that the mispronunciation of the word 'strategy' means anything insofar as political beliefs are concerned?

And I was pointing out that your joke was old. I figured that it was evident in my post. I'm sorry if it wasn't.

Obviously, you spend more time on here than actually listening to politicians speaking. One word spoken incorrectly is one thing, but many words is a completely different thing.

But back to your lame post:

-There is no senate. Rather, Chavez turned Venezuela's government from a bicameral into a unicameral one by dint of a constitution that he engineered and pushed thorugh the government.

-Like I said, simple rather than 2/3rds majority.

-His constitution did away with congressional control of the military. He's in charge of the regulars, as well as 2 million reservists. There is no governmental oversight besides himself.

-The election ministry again.

-He filled the supreme court with die-hard personal supporters.


Your list is pretty much the guidebook to any leader with complete control. But since it's Venezuela and since it's about free oil....they're the bastards? Let's try the Sudan, Darfur, Iran, etc, etc? If you can prove actual means of him being a worse leader of a country than the before mentioned countries, you win.

I don't claim that, I just claim that he's a bad leader and refute the claim by many progressives that he is the way forward for Latin America. He isn't a democratic leader, that's all. Now, if you'd prefer to PRETEND that I said he was the worst leader ever, etc. etc, I direct you to:

The Straw Man Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)

Edit: Darfur is a part of Sudan.

I don't claim that, I just claim that he's a bad leader and refute the claim by many progressives that he is the way forward for Latin America. He isn't a democratic leader, that's all. Now, if you'd prefer to PRETEND that I said he was the worst leader ever, etc. etc, I direct you to:

The Straw Man Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)

Edit: Darfur is a part of Sudan.

My list should have been Sudan-Darfur.

And, you distorted my retort. I said prove that he's a worse leader than the others I mentioned. I never said that you mentioned he's the worst leader ever. You've failed to prove this, and failed to prove why we're concentrating on him out of all the 'non-democratic' leaders, as you like to say, in the world.

Wait. Is this some kind of joke? Are you putting us on? Because seriously now Whittier, what basis do we have besides blind faith that God exists? And what basis, furthermore, do we have to say that Pat Robertson is/isn't a prophet, or that you are?
If you don't believe in God, then nothing I say will convince you that God talks to me.
If you don't believe in God, then neither will you believe that God speaks to people. For God to speak to people, he must first exist.
For God to tell someone that he is going to do thus and thus, would it not make sense that God himself must exist in order for him to do this. For a nonexistent being can do nothing.
But I believe God is all, knows all, see all, and is above all. He has revealed to me signs and dreams showing me that he exists.
When God gives me dreams, and then a month or maybe a couple of years later they come true. I believe then it was God who spoke to me.
When God says "This evening I will heal this girl or that girl." And it happens, I believe it was God who spoke to me.
When God says to look into a scripture passage, and when I do I find out it is very relevant to what is happening in the present moment, I believe it was God who told me to look at the particular passage.
When I have doubts, and I asked God for somekind of sign. And I see one in the sky. To me, that is proof that God exists.
When I pray for something, and it happens, that proves to me that God listens to my prayers. But even if he didn't answer them, I would still know he is listening to them.

But for any of this to be possible, God must first exist as a real entity.

Obviously, you spend more time on here than actually listening to politicians speaking. One word spoken incorrectly is one thing, but many words is a completely different thing.

But back to your lame post:

-There is no senate. Rather, Chavez turned Venezuela's government from a bicameral into a unicameral one by dint of a constitution that he engineered and pushed thorugh the government.

-Like I said, simple rather than 2/3rds majority.

-His constitution did away with congressional control of the military. He's in charge of the regulars, as well as 2 million reservists. There is no governmental oversight besides himself.

-The election ministry again.

-He filled the supreme court with die-hard personal supporters.


Your list is pretty much the guidebook to any leader with complete control. But since it's Venezuela and since it's about free oil....they're the bastards? Let's try the Sudan, Darfur, Iran, etc, etc? If you can prove actual means of him being a worse leader of a country than the before mentioned countries, you win.We speak not of Sudan or Iran. We are speaking of Venezuela. Your attempt to divert attention to other nations is typical.

@Whittier: Okay, okay. I forget that people really believe in God a lot, and I'm sorry. BTW, have you always been particluarly devout, or is this a new(er) thing for you? Because I seem to remember you from the past, but not espousing this particular viewpoint.

@ Istenbul:
How is "many words spoken incorrectly a different thing"? What does it actually mean about the man, apart from the fact, as we already stated, that he doesn't like public speaking?

And furthermore, why not Chavez? He's yet one more dictator in a world of them, but does that make him any better than the rest? What, moreover, is your point besides to disagree with me?

We speak not of Sudan or Iran. We are speaking of Venezuela. Your attempt to divert attention to other nations is typical.


Your pathetic mention to God to divert attention to other issues is typical of people of your stature.

I was not in any way of diverting attention to the other nations I mentioned. If you learned how to read, you would have known I asked the other guy to prove how worse of a country Venezuela is to Sudan-Darfur, Iran and others. His failure to do so just imploded his whole 'Venezuela is so horrible' argument.

@Whittier: Okay, okay. I forget that people really believe in God a lot, and I'm sorry. BTW, have you always been particluarly devout, or is this a new(er) thing for you? Because I seem to remember you from the past, but not espousing this particular viewpoint.

@ Istenbul:
How is "many words spoken incorrectly a different thing"? What does it actually mean about the man, apart from the fact, as we already stated, that he doesn't like public speaking?

And furthermore, why not Chavez? He's yet one more dictator in a world of them, but does that make him any better than the rest? What, moreover, is your point besides to disagree with me?

Please, stop defending Bush. You look at him during a speech and you know he's enjoying every minute of attention.

And furthermore, why Chavez? Suddenly, since one is a dictator they are automatically cast into the 'axis of evil'? MY point is that your's lacks evidence to show how soddy of a nation Venezuela is as you claim.

pukes on this thread*. Its a load of crap.

Come on Guy's we all no Fidel Castro is god (or at least unkillable) :p

Where did Fidel come into this?

Istenbul:

Calm down and think. You say: Don't defend Bush. If you look at him in a speech you can see he enjoys it (paraphrased)

When I watch a speech of his, I see him looking uncomfortable, stumbling over words and getting ruffled. If you see a power-hungry, attention grabbing bastard then that's your choice.


And furthermore, why Chavez? Suddenly, since one is a dictator they are automatically cast into the 'axis of evil'? MY point is that your's lacks evidence to show how soddy of a nation Venezuela is as you claim.
I just remembered... the quote feature.
Anyway, when has anyone mentioned that Chavez is a member of the Axis of Evil? When has anyone even used that term since, oh, 2002? I'm saying that Chavez is a bad leader, one not committed to giving the Venezuelan people a say in their future. He wants power, why else the sole control of two military forces, the supreme court and the election ministry? I'm saying that he is not a good leader for Venezuela.

He may have improved the literacy rate. This is a good thing. But when the Venezuelan people tire of him, what then? When they want a new direction for their country, what'll they do, wait for him to die?

Where did Fidel come into this?

I think my mind is wandering... When ever I think of Chavez I can't help but think Cuban missile crisis which leads me to think of how many time we've tried to kill Fidel... so yeah I'm random

So. You are a follower of the false prophet.
If I didn't fear for your sanity I would mock you until you bled. Alas, I fear for your sanity.

Ah, of course. You know that we tried, among other things, to plant exploding cigars on his person? And an exploding conch shell?

[QUOTE=Gurguvungunit]@Whittier: Okay, okay. I forget that people really believe in God a lot, and I'm sorry. BTW, have you always been particluarly devout, or is this a new(er) thing for you? Because I seem to remember you from the past, but not espousing this particular viewpoint.

QUOTE]
Yes. I made a silent oath/vow God that I would remain a virgin until I was 30. At which point I hoped to figure out the meaning of life. Therefore, my whole life I turned down intercourse which includes kissing, with women. Having intercourse before 30 would have required me to break a holy oath that I had taken of my own free will. When I was 30, I figured out the meaning of life was expressable in a mathematical formula. Still I was not satisfied so I kept praying for a way to express the meaning of life in way that everyone could understand. While I had found it, at the age of 30, I was in the army. The military has too many complex rules and regulations and stuff that get in the way of people who want to hook up with women. But while I was here in Iraq, God has showed me that the meaning of life can be summed up in one simple word: LOVE
And my attempts to find women to hang out with when I get back are bearing much fruit. I wish to keep them all, but in the end there can be only one. :( And I do not know which one it will be. And I must confess that I was not expecting such success. Therefore I do not know if I should show up to those dates or not. Because they themselves might not show up.
And now that I found that LOVE is the meaning of life. A girlfriend of mine, who has just started down the path that I have traveled my whole asked a question when I told her my findings. And her question opens up a new journey: namely what is love then. If Love is the meaning of life then what is love? We know it is not this romantic stuff. Nor is this nationalist stuff. But the love we speak of is higher than all these. It is above all forms of human love. Some humans seeks it but never find it. Yet it affects them.
And I was telling my other girlfriend these things and now she is asking the same question. I thought it was a relationship thing. But the fact that both women have had relationships in their past, gives me a different perspective because despite having those relationships they still ask what love is. Therefore, the love I seek to define is not about relationships or romance as I had thought it might be when I first figured it out.

All arguments I made before were from me. Not from God. I spoke for myself because I had grown cynical and callous. Meeting girlfriend number one, though and learning that she has given up all relationships, all romance, all sex, and all possessions and job promotions to seek the meaning of life reminded me of my own journey. Therefore I spoke to her. And we exchanged ideas. And I found that if there are women like her, willing to give stuff up, then there is much much hope after all. She has told me that I should not be afraid to experiment with different women. She is a very nice person who has refocused my attention on what is really important through simply conversing through a website.

And when I use the term girlfriend, I do not mean in the traditional sense. I mean that she is a friend and she is a girl. I would not have you be confused.

Ah, of course. You know that we tried, among other things, to plant exploding cigars on his person? Really I've hear we tried poisoning them but explosives. Wow... what was the CIA thinking

@ Whittier: Wow. I don't know if I could ... do that. The whole "virgin 'till I'm 30" thing might be a bit much for me. But good luck on the meaning of life thing. Hope it works out for you.

@ Thegrandbus: The CIA is crazy. But we love them anyway.

I need to sleep now, early morning tomorrow. Istenbul, another time.

Hey maybe when chavez is gone we'll see brand new AK-104 parts kits up here in the US.

Hey maybe when chavez is gone we'll see brand new AK-104 parts kits up here in the US.
WHA...?

Hey maybe when chavez is gone we'll see brand new AK-104 parts kits up here in the US.

Seriously, do you every think about anything else but guns? You're like a man obsessed.

@ Whittier: Wow. I don't know if I could ... do that. The whole "virgin 'till I'm 30" thing might be a bit much for me. But good luck on the meaning of life thing. Hope it works out for you.

@ Thegrandbus: The CIA is crazy. But we love them anyway.

I need to sleep now, early morning tomorrow. Istenbul, another time.
Not everyone can do it. That makes it a bit of a big deal. It is written that this is the preferred way but that most people cannot do it. They do not have the spiritual or emotional strength too. To say these things opens one up to accusations of arrogance. Yet, I did not say these things, God did. And his apostles noted it in the New Testament.
A person who has abstained until they are 19 has done well for himself. He has done better than a person who gave in. But one who abstains for long period of time does better than a person who abstains for a short period. And he who abstains at all doeth better than he who abstains not at all.
God had put into my heart to do this. To prove to people that it is possible, even in the face of temptation. I understand the difficulties and why such a vow is not attractive. I have had many women insinuate they wanted to hook up, or just shack up for the evening. I've had 5 women just come right and say they wanted to have sex with me. I've had two girls beg me for sex.
I've felt the magnetic pull of the lips towards the girls' lips. With such magnetic pulling, it is of no wonder that most are unable to fulfill a vow of abstinence until the age of 30. Yet somehow I have done so. And by doing so, I have proven, against all odds, that it can be done.
Such that for those who think they can't live without sex or romance, my own life proves that you can live without those things. With God all things are possible. It just takes faith.

Ah, yet another Bushevik gathering. When Dear Leader's approval rates continue to sink like the Titanic, start waving fingers and chant spooky stories about "Liberuls" and "Commies" like Hugo Chavez. Classic, classic stratagem.

Honestly.... have a good look at a socialist... but be subtle about it lest they start ranting about how they are being repressed by the system... The only difference between the left leaning tree hugging pot smokers and a monty python skit, is that monty python is actually funny... HELP HELP IM BEING REPRESSED!!! COME SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!!!! i just wanna smile and go pat a socialist on the head every time they think that building a basketball court in the inner city will solve all of our social ills....

anyhow here's hoping you don't get splinters where it hurts at the next tree huggin rally

Pat Robertson was right. The CIA ought to take care of Chavez. And while they're at it; Castro, Kim Jong-Il, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khamenei.

Honestly.... have a good look at a socialist... but be subtle about it lest they start ranting about how they are being repressed by the system... The only difference between the left leaning tree hugging pot smokers and a monty python skit, is that monty python is actually funny... HELP HELP IM BEING REPRESSED!!! COME SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!!!! i just wanna smile and go pat a socialist on the head every time they think that building a basketball court in the inner city will solve all of our social ills....

anyhow here's hoping you don't get splinters where it hurts at the next tree huggin rally
So you're callin Hugo Chavez a tree-hugger then? :confused:


In Colombia, where Chavez condemned the duly elected government, for the first in a hundred years an incumbent won reelection by a landslide whereby defeating another Chavez ally. Uribe was credited with an 81% reduction in violence. That makes Venezuela and its ally Brazil the two most violent and unsafe nations in the whole western hemisphere.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12976176/
*SNIP*
Uribe brought crime down 81% since Colombia's election.
As someone else pointed out: You're misreading the article. Columbia is still a very violent country.


Uribe had 3 opponents, both of whome he smashed.
[QUOTE=The article]Gaviria’s strong support — a record outcome for the left — confirms the growing strength of the democratic left in this decidedly conservative South American nation.


While Venezuela spirals into decay and gangster criminal violence, Uribe is making Colombia the safest nation in South America.
It's not quite there yet, though.


And I just love this part:
"Opponents accuse the president of focusing his war on Colombia’s left-wing rebels and their ties to drug-trafficking, while allowed the country’s murderous far-right paramilitaries to grow into a potent political force as they lay down arms in a government-brokered peace pact."
Maybe if the leftist agreed to a peace pack in which they laid down their arms too, they would be allowed to become a political party in Colombia. That's the difference. The rightists are laying down their arms and turning to peace. The left is not. The left wants to continue to kill people as they always have. "The left"... No, that's not accurate. Try FARC-EP.

Praise God, who in his infinite wisdom, has decided to bring murderous era of Chavez revolutions to an end. And may he cast Chavez down from his pedestal upon which he has installed himself above all mankind, and his followers with him.
Amen
...

*Flees thread*

If you don't believe in God, then nothing I say will convince you that God talks to me.

Ooh... we have someone claiming to be the next prophet here...

Well, I just have to tell you something.

I am God and I am seriously pissed off with you dissing my actions in South America.

I was beginning to wonder when would the next monthly whittier-"Chavez is eeeevil" thread was going to come.

Still he finds some new semblance of facts to twists every time, gotta admit that takes some work.

Pat Robertson was right. The CIA ought to take care of Chavez. And while they're at it; Castro, Kim Jong-Il, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khamenei.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen! Calling for assassination, now are we?

I bet you call yourself a christian, too. :rolleyes:

This article by Johann Hari has many indicators as to why the so called right (I perfer to call them the Greedists) despise Chavez....

Using oil wealth to help the poor....its against Gods will it is!!! /sarcasm

http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=653

The nation that proves oil wealth can be used to help the poor
Venzuela´s Salsa revolution



Latin America is a graveyard of false prophets. On every corner there is a reminder of the political Messiahs who failed. Bolivar, Che, Evita, Fidel - all are remembered in statues and wall paintings that look out over a continent now almost as poor and unfree as Africa. But something is rumbling here in the barrios around Caracas, something that is causing tremors that are felt in the White House and every poor country in the world. A Salsa revolution is spreading out from the slums of Venezuela, and it is the first in Latin
America to be both totally democratic and slowly, startlingly effective.

But to begin this story, I have to take you on a tour of the Old Venezuela. Barrio Nueva Tacagua is a shanty-town in the high hills that sprawl around Caracas, built by the government at the height of the 1970s oil boom. The hundreds of homes here are made of pressed cardboard and rusting tin. They are connected by paths made of more of the same, with the odd old bedspread tossed in.

The barrio nestles in what looks like a river of trash and shit. Because there is no rubbish collection, because the sewers cannot cope with solids, everything is simply thrown further downhill, in the hope it will rot away. Children with old, lined faces play there. Gladys De Tarate lives in a swollen sardine tin with her four children, her husband, and her mother. She tells me, “This land was never meant to be built on. It is not safe. We are on a fault-line, and we feel like we are waiting for the next mudslide, like the ones in 1999 that killed tens of thousands of people.” But there are more immediate worries: when it rains, the water acquires crashes downhill so fast it can carry cars and homes with it. Last month, it took a small girl.

In the early eighties, the government sent some trailers here and boasted about it for years – but they were unbearably hot, “like ovens on the inside”, one man explains, and had to be trashed. The public sector was virtually non-existent: nobody here saw a doctor except in the most extreme emergencies, and the school closed for three years after the roof caved in.

This is the life that was given to the eighty percent of mostly brown-skinned Venezuelans, locked out of the country’s white oligarchy under forty years of corrupt psuedo-democracy.

This Venezuela is collapsing. Not just metaphorically but literally. The barrios are sagging down the hills; homes disappear in landslides every other month. And – as a result of the slow-burn social revolution here - these communities are (at last) being relocated or rebuilt as part of what everybody here calls “the process.”

To understand how The Process began, you have to go back to 1991 – the year the old Venezuela reached its nadir. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) demanded the elected government of Carlos Perez cut the tiny thread of government support provided to places like Barrio Nueva Tacagua. As ever, they put their own neoliberal ideology – small government, low taxes, make everyone pay for public services – above democracy. Even though Perez had campaigned on precisely the opposite platform, he gave in. The price of food quadrupled, unemployment soared, and the meager scraps of public services available to the poor were cut. The barrios erupted. The government’s response? A massacre of over 500 people. Residents of this barrio remember machine-gun toting soldiers arriving on the day of the uprising. They shot a man and tossed his body downhill. The protests ended.

But from this IMF-ed up chaos, they explain, an alternative emerged. A left-wing Venezuelan general, Hugo Chávez, began to articulate an alternative to the neoliberalism that had been imposed on Latin America for over two decades – the neoliberalism that has created the slowest economic growth and the highest inequality in living memory. In 1998 he was elected President. Since then, he has been approved – in free, open elections and referenda – no less than seven times.

The Chávez Process is made flesh in a woman called Maria González who I stumbled across in one of Venezuela’s roughest barrios. She is a 60 year old woman with a determined face and a sweet swarm of grandchildren buzzing around her. She was sitting in a class in one of the tens of thousands of educational ‘missions’ established by the Chávez government. After the government doubled education spending, the barrios are now filled with new schools. These aren’t just for children, but for the adult majority who were failed by the education system.

Maria explains that, in the old Venezuela, most people left school at the age of 12. She wasn’t even that lucky - she wasn’t educated at all. Like millions of Venezuelans, in the midst of spurting oil wealth she was left illiterate and innumerate. She brandishes a piece of chalk with a smile, and slowly, carefully, writes her name on a blackboard. She turns to me and offers a small nod. “I have worked all my life like a mule. But now I will not die as ignorant as a mule,” she says.

In every barrio, I seek out the medical missions, one of the other jewels of the new Venezuela. These are freshly minted clinics – acquired with the country’s oil wealth - where the poor are seeing doctors, often for the first time in their lives. Thousands of sickly Marias troop through for medicine every week: I met many who said they would be dead without the Missions. Often, those of us concerned about human rights think only in negative terms – a massacre here, a prison there. But all across Venezuela I keep finding the polar opposite of massacres in the missions: people mown back to health with medicine-bullets. They have even appeared in Barrio Nueva Tacagua while its residents wait for relocation.

Despite all this, the democratizing process in
Venezuela has been subject to torrential demonisation and even a (briefly successful) coup. I’ll be talking more about the opposition next week, but the core reason for these assaults on Venezuela’s elected government is stark. Oil wealth is supposed to trickle (no, cascade) upwards to multinational corporations, not downwards towards the poor. The President sitting on the largest pot of oil outside the Middle East is not supposed to listen to his people and spend his country’s petrodollars on education and health. He is not supposed to increase taxes on the likes of Haliburton from a negligible 1% to 30% in order to pay for schools and hospitals for people like Gladys and Maria.

A classroom, a hospital, a barrio: these might sound like unlikely locations for a social revolution. In Europe, we take it for granted that our governments should provide these services for the poor. But on a continent which has had neoliberalism undemocratically forced down its throat for decades, it has taken a Salsa revolution – the loud, proud call from the barrios of Venezuela - to produce social democracy.


The Independent - 19/08/2005

YEA! Chavez is gone! First Saddam Husein, now Hugo Chavez, next Kim-Jong Il, next Castro...

YEA! Chavez is gone! First Saddam Husein, now Hugo Chavez, next Kim-Jong Il, next Castro...
He isn't gone, he's just screening his phone calls :p

And I think Bush will be gone before Kim-Jong Il - after all, he'll leave the White House in 2008...

Pat Robertson was right. The CIA ought to take care of Chavez. And while they're at it; Castro, Kim Jong-Il, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khamenei.

Why not Bush first? The CIA has some experience with killing a US president.

YEA! Chavez is gone! First Saddam Husein, now Hugo Chavez, next Kim-Jong Il, next Castro...

will one of you extreme right wing type keyboard warriors explain to me exactly how chavez, winner of TWO multi party elections is a dictator?

or is that just an meaningless insult you come out with when someone represents a class other than the elite?

Pat Robertson was right. The CIA ought to take care of Chavez. And while they're at it; Castro, Kim Jong-Il, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khamenei.
Phht... like They could pull it off...:rolleyes:

will one of you extreme right wing type keyboard warriors explain to me exactly how chavez, winner of TWO multi party elections is a dictator

There are some pretty severe human rights violations occuring under his regime, so I take issue with his leadership.

However, the guy's not some kind of Stalinesque tyrant who rules over his people with a murderous fist...his regime has some serious issues, but it will eventually work itself out through economic reality and the democratic process. Chavez will not be able to maintain power if he continues on his present path because the economy can't sustain it; he has some good ideas but too many are tainted by the failed ideology of populism and that will eventually hurt Venezuela rather than help it.

I don't think Chavez is megalomaniacal, irresponsible, or foolish enough to try and install himself as dictator, although who knows how things will turn out? Even so, there are people out there who are a hell of a lot worse than he'll ever be...it's unfair to portray him as a monster just as it is unrealistic to portray him as heroic.

I'll wait until he leaves office to pass final judgement on him.

So you're callin Hugo Chavez a tree-hugger then? :confused:


As someone else pointed out: You're misreading the article. Columbia is still a very violent country.

[QUOTE=Whittier---]
Uribe had 3 opponents, both of whome he smashed.



It's not quite there yet, though.


"The left"... No, that's not accurate. Try FARC-EP.

...

*Flees thread*
Colombia has far less violence than the Chavez Pact nations of Venezuela and Brazil.
FARC-EP IS THE LEFT

[QUOTE=Gravlen]So you're callin Hugo Chavez a tree-hugger then? :confused:


As someone else pointed out: You're misreading the article. Columbia is still a very violent country.


Colombia has far less violence than the Chavez Pact nations of Venezuela and Brazil.
FARC-EP IS THE LEFT

Again, you're wrong. Colombia is the number 1 supplier of Cocaine, has drug cartels vying for power, and the government is having problems with a rebel group. Venezuela is a safe haven compared to Colombia.

LLLLLAAAAAAAAADIEEEEEEES AAAAAND GENTLEMEEEEN! WELCOME TO THE LATEST LUCHA LIBRE MATCH BETWEEN THESE TWO BITTER RIVALS! LLLLLEEEEEET'S GEEEEET READYYYYY TO RUUUUMBLEEEEEEE!

ON THE RIGHT CORNER OF THE RING, WEIGHING THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY POUNDS, A HUNDRED OF WHICH IS MILITARY GEAR AND ONE OF WHICH IS BRAIN, WHITTIER!

ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RING, WEIGHT UNKNOWN BUT MOSTLY MADE UP BY DARK MATTER, REALITYYYY!!!!

BEGIN!

1st round.
Whittier: Chavez is a dictator.

Reality: Chavez got elected. Three times. And allows a media that's fully against him.

2nd round.
Whittier: I'm a Christian that supports assassinating an elected leader I dislike.

Reality: Christ didn't support murder.

3rd round.
Whittier: Chavez wants to destroy the US.

Reality: The US tried to coup out Chavez and his reaction was sending oil to New Orleans.

4th round.
Whittier: I hear God's voice talking to me.

Reality: So do many schizophrenics. There's a Christ in every mental ward.

5th round:
Whittier: Brazil is part of the Chavez pact to destroy America.

Reality: There is no Chavez pact to destroy America and Brazil is very well-respected by all but the nutjob-style conservatives.

6th round:
Whittier: If you don't agree with me it must be because you are with "them".

Reality: Many paranoids say the same thing. You know what? It's not fun anymore. *Pins Whittier to the ground*

ONE! TWO! THREE! WHITTIER'S OUT! REALITY WINS THE FIGHT!

*Tries to lift Reality's arm. Fails.*

*Listens to the roar of the crowd that watched this fight...*

Thankfully no ear biting occured.

Thankfully no ear biting occured.

That would be boxing. Wrestling is more adequate for the dispute between Whittier and Reality.

Chavez is a joke. And he keeps hooking the big-mouthed Liberal bass with garbage like "giving heating oil to the AMerican poor." Meanwhile, he runs Venezuela into the ground, and he is just one more reason the left in America is all wrong for America.

And you know what? Speaking of oil, it would be nice if we would just take over venezuela. Everyone thinks we go to war for oil anyway so why not? And it will greatly reduce our gas prices because venezuelian oil gets here faster.

Oh, so that's where my model glue went. Whittier must have huffed it all.

And you know what? Speaking of oil, it would be nice if we would just take over venezuela. Everyone thinks we go to war for oil anyway so why not?

Because it would make you no better than a mug or a rapist that gets what he wants through force. Oh, wait. Sorry, my bad, replace the "would make" with "makes"...

LLLLLAAAAAAAAADIEEEEEEES AAAAAND GENTLEMEEEEN! WELCOME TO THE LATEST LUCHA LIBRE MATCH BETWEEN THESE TWO BITTER RIVALS! LLLLLEEEEEET'S GEEEEET READYYYYY TO RUUUUMBLEEEEEEE!

ON THE RIGHT CORNER OF THE RING, WEIGHING THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY POUNDS, A HUNDRED OF WHICH IS MILITARY GEAR AND ONE OF WHICH IS BRAIN, WHITTIER!

ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RING, WEIGHT UNKNOWN BUT MOSTLY MADE UP BY DARK MATTER, REALITYYYY!!!!

BEGIN!

1st round.
Whittier: Chavez is a dictator.

Reality: Chavez got elected. Three times. And allows a media that's fully against him.

2nd round.
Whittier: I'm a Christian that supports assassinating an elected leader I dislike.

Reality: Christ didn't support murder.

3rd round.
Whittier: Chavez wants to destroy the US.

Reality: The US tried to coup out Chavez and his reaction was sending oil to New Orleans.

4th round.
Whittier: I hear God's voice talking to me.

Reality: So do many schizophrenics. There's a Christ in every mental ward.

5th round:
Whittier: Brazil is part of the Chavez pact to destroy America.

Reality: There is no Chavez pact to destroy America and Brazil is very well-respected by all but the nutjob-style conservatives.

6th round:
Whittier: If you don't agree with me it must be because you are with "them".

Reality: Many paranoids say the same thing. You know what? It's not fun anymore. *Pins Whittier to the ground*

ONE! TWO! THREE! WHITTIER'S OUT! REALITY WINS THE FIGHT!

*Tries to lift Reality's arm. Fails.*

*Listens to the roar of the crowd that watched this fight...*

Coming soon: A_B VERSUS REALITY! WHO SHALL WIN THAT??? :p

when violent crime is sky high, people don't give dam about social welfare. They want someone who brings law and order.
This is one of your few sensible sentences. If my kind of socialists were in power those people would have both tough security and good social programmes.

[QUOTE=Gurguvungunit]@Whittier: Okay, okay. I forget that people really believe in God a lot, and I'm sorry. BTW, have you always been particluarly devout, or is this a new(er) thing for you? Because I seem to remember you from the past, but not espousing this particular viewpoint.

QUOTE]
Yes. I made a silent oath/vow God that I would remain a virgin until I was 30. At which point I hoped to figure out the meaning of life. Therefore, my whole life I turned down intercourse which includes kissing, with women. Having intercourse before 30 would have required me to break a holy oath that I had taken of my own free will. When I was 30, I figured out the meaning of life was expressable in a mathematical formula. Still I was not satisfied so I kept praying for a way to express the meaning of life in way that everyone could understand. While I had found it, at the age of 30, I was in the army. The military has too many complex rules and regulations and stuff that get in the way of people who want to hook up with women. But while I was here in Iraq, God has showed me that the meaning of life can be summed up in one simple word: LOVE
And my attempts to find women to hang out with when I get back are bearing much fruit. I wish to keep them all, but in the end there can be only one. :( And I do not know which one it will be. And I must confess that I was not expecting such success. Therefore I do not know if I should show up to those dates or not. Because they themselves might not show up.
And now that I found that LOVE is the meaning of life. A girlfriend of mine, who has just started down the path that I have traveled my whole asked a question when I told her my findings. And her question opens up a new journey: namely what is love then. If Love is the meaning of life then what is love? We know it is not this romantic stuff. Nor is this nationalist stuff. But the love we speak of is higher than all these. It is above all forms of human love. Some humans seeks it but never find it. Yet it affects them.
And I was telling my other girlfriend these things and now she is asking the same question. I thought it was a relationship thing. But the fact that both women have had relationships in their past, gives me a different perspective because despite having those relationships they still ask what love is. Therefore, the love I seek to define is not about relationships or romance as I had thought it might be when I first figured it out.

All arguments I made before were from me. Not from God. I spoke for myself because I had grown cynical and callous. Meeting girlfriend number one, though and learning that she has given up all relationships, all romance, all sex, and all possessions and job promotions to seek the meaning of life reminded me of my own journey. Therefore I spoke to her. And we exchanged ideas. And I found that if there are women like her, willing to give stuff up, then there is much much hope after all. She has told me that I should not be afraid to experiment with different women. She is a very nice person who has refocused my attention on what is really important through simply conversing through a website.

And when I use the term girlfriend, I do not mean in the traditional sense. I mean that she is a friend and she is a girl. I would not have you be confused.

Wow. Just wow.

I won't flame you, but wow.

Because it would make you no better than a mug or a rapist that gets what he wants through force. Oh, wait. Sorry, my bad, replace the "would make" with "makes"...

Argueing morality is pointless because it is subjective. If you want to go that way, Chavez is robbing us at the pump. You may think that's nothing compared to war and doesn't involve death, but when you consider that we are dependant on vehicals, and those who make less than $8 an hour and hae to travel a moderate distance to their work place lose a good percentage of their income, a downward spiral isn't hard to imagine.

So who's worse? The mugger or the man who kills the mugger? You can't answer that question. The former commits a lesser crime but was the provocateur, the latter commits a bigger crime but at least did it in self defense and defense of his belongings.

So yeah, the morality thing is stupid to argue. I require a logical reason.

Argueing morality is pointless because it is subjective. If you want to go that way, Chavez is robbing us at the pump. You may think that's nothing compared to war and doesn't involve death, but when you consider that we are dependant on vehicals, and those who make less than $8 an hour and hae to travel a moderate distance to their work place lose a good percentage of their income, a downward spiral isn't hard to imagine.

So who's worse? The mugger or the man who kills the mugger? You can't answer that question. The former commits a lesser crime but was the provocateur, the latter commits a bigger crime but at least did it in self defense and defense of his belongings.

So yeah, the morality thing is stupid to argue. I require a logical reason.

How's that for logics:

IT'S NOT YOUR OIL!

There. Beat that.

Wow. Just wow.

I won't flame you, but wow.

Is it just me, or is he getting crazier?

Is it just me, or is he getting crazier?

Yes. :D

How's that for logics:

IT'S NOT YOUR OIL!

There. Beat that.

You're still argueing morality. I thought it was clear I didn't care.

You're still argueing morality. I thought it was clear I didn't care.

Ahhh, right. Then I'll assume you'd be fine with someone breaking in your house, raping your mother and ripping your eyes off because that someone was in need of sex and his sister was in need of a cornea transplant.

IT'S NOT YOUR OIL!

It's my oil if I am strong enough to take it from you. That's why morality is important, because otherwise the strongest will always plunder from the weak.

It's my oil if I am strong enough to take it from you. That's why morality is important, because otherwise the strongest will always plunder from the weak.

In much the same way as "It's my oil if I am strong enough to take it from you." is wrong, "I have the right to rape your ass if I'm strong enough to force it." is wrong, don't you agree?

So who's worse? The mugger or the man who kills the mugger? You can't answer that question. The former commits a lesser crime but was the provocateur, the latter commits a bigger crime but at least did it in self defense and defense of his belongings.


Quite correct. So if the US invades Venezuala for it's oil, the US would be committing the bigger crime as it was trying to steal oil that didn't belong to it. In that event, in the unlikely probability that Venezuala 'kills' the US, it would be in self defense and defense of it's belongings.

The US is the mugger in your scenario, trying to shotgun the storekeeper cause he doesn't like him and wants the goods.

In much the same way as "It's my oil if I am strong enough to take it from you." is wrong, "I have the right to rape your ass if I'm strong enough to force it." is wrong, don't you agree?

I believe in each nation having the sovereign right to negotiate and determine the best course of action for its natural resources, so I would have to say that any attempt to take resources by force is morally wrong.

Quite correct. So if the US invades Venezuala for it's oil, the US would be committing the bigger crime as it was trying to steal oil that didn't belong to it. In that event, in the unlikely probability that Venezuala 'kills' the US, it would be in self defense and defense of it's belongings.

The US is the mugger in your scenario, trying to shotgun the storekeeper cause he doesn't like him and wants the goods.

A_B's likely response: "But I'm not from Venezuela! There MUST be some convoluted way to justify my wish to steal from them! I mean, logically, since I'm not there, it's ok to rob them."

Phht... like They could pull it off...:rolleyes:
You never know, if they were professional about it and outsourced their business then they might.

I believe in each nation having the sovereign right to negotiate and determine the best course of action for its natural resources, so I would have to say that any attempt to take resources by force is morally wrong.

Thanks, I was just checking if you were taking the side of the nutcase...

Thanks, I was just checking if you were taking the side of the nutcase...

Hell no...I'm a believer in the free market, so any attempt by government to steal resources for nationalistic aims pretty much automatically places me in opposition to it.

That's without even bringing my moral views in to it...needless to say, I'm also morally opposed to any war for resources.

Quite correct. So if the US invades Venezuala for it's oil, the US would be committing the bigger crime as it was trying to steal oil that didn't belong to it. In that event, in the unlikely probability that Venezuala 'kills' the US, it would be in self defense and defense of it's belongings.

The US is the mugger in your scenario, trying to shotgun the storekeeper cause he doesn't like him and wants the goods.

Is it? Or is venezuela the mugger for charging the US's citizens through the nose for oil? See this is all subjective, so not matter what you say, you can't effectively call one side more moral than the other. Cutting their production to charge us more cuses us too many problems. No matter where you go with this, you can not prove one the better.

That, effectively, was my point. So I care not about what is or is not moral, I only care that I don't want to pay high gas prices.

Ahhh, right. Then I'll assume you'd be fine with someone breaking in your house, raping your mother and ripping your eyes off because that someone was in need of sex and his sister was in need of a cornea transplant.

No, but killing some asshole so that we can quit suffering from his high gas prices is a far cry from breaking into a house, raping someone, and gouging someone elses eyes out. I do hope you realise the major difference.

Whitter, aren't you supposed to be in Communist China doing some kind of secret spying mission that threatens your life now or something?

Whitter, aren't you supposed to be in Communist China doing some kind of secret spying mission that threatens your life now or something?

Quiet, you damn liberal hippie commie! You'll break his cover!

That, effectively, was my point. So I care not about what is or is not moral, I only care that I don't want to pay high gas prices.

You're a psychopath. And I mean it, by the definition.

No, but killing some asshole so that we can quit suffering from his high gas prices is a far cry from breaking into a house, raping someone, and gouging someone elses eyes out. I do hope you realise the major difference.

Oh, but isn't morality besides the point here?

It's my oil if I am strong enough to take it from you.
I think that's just anarcho-capitalism!

Oh, but isn't morality besides the point here?

It is, but that wasn't my point. You invoked false analogy (http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/falsean.php) by comparing 2 totally different events, and I demonstrated how they were different.

I think that's just anarcho-capitalism!

Forgive me for asking, but what is anarcho-capitalism? It sounds the same as anarchy itself.

Is it? Or is venezuela the mugger for charging the US's citizens through the nose for oil? See this is all subjective, so not matter what you say, you can't effectively call one side more moral than the other. Cutting their production to charge us more cuses us too many problems. No matter where you go with this, you can not prove one the better.

Venezuela is simply selling its oil for the price the market deems is justified by supply and demand fundamentals.

That's without even bringing my moral views in to it...needless to say, I'm also morally opposed to any war for resources.
You're going to hate the 21st and 22nd centuries... :(

You're going to hate the 21st and 22nd centuries... :(

Well, I won't be fighting for resources...I'm going to conserve and when I can invest in alternative energy. The only people fighting for resources will be the ones who don't prepare for the future...there's going to be quite a few of them, but not enough to stop the level headed people from developing solutions.

Venezuela is simply selling its oil for the price the market deems is justified by supply and demand fundamentals.

Depends, if all raising your price does is inspire conservation then no. It often goes unreported but a good portion of americans are indeed trying to conserve their fuel(and there are various ways which they go about this). Although it doesn't help that a lot of people drive big vehicals which they do not need.

Depends, if all raising your price does is inspire conservation then no. It often goes unreported but the a good portion of americans are indeed trying to conserve their fuel(and there are various ways which they go about this). Although it doesn't help that a lot of people drive big vehicals which they do not need.

Conservation is what gave us the cheap oil from 1980-2000; the only way prices fall is if demand does, and the only way to reduce demand is to cut consumption and increase efficiency. Increasing supply does not lower prices; oil production did not recover its 1979 peak until 1996, nearly 17 years later...it was all falling demand.

We can conserve as much today as we could in 1973 without impacting our economic growth...if anything, we'll increase it due to less inflation and more independence from price shocks. Supply will rise in the next few years, but prices will not fall unless demand does and stays down for a while.

Alternatives, improved efficiency, and conservation are the only ways to achieve independence from price fluctuations in oil in the long term and the only way to lower prices in the short term.

Conservation is what gave us the cheap oil from 1980-2000; the only way prices fall is if demand does, and the only way to reduce demand is to cut consumption and increase efficiency. Increasing supply does not lower prices; oil production did not recover its 1979 peak until 1996, nearly 17 years later...it was all falling demand.

If that is the case, then why is it that when OPEC cuts production, oil prices rise? Surely if that's the case, supply must make prices fall?

We can conserve as much today as we could in 1973 without impacting our economic growth...if anything, we'll increase it due to less inflation and more independence from price shocks.

I at least agree with this. Unfortunately, I already conserve as much as I can.

Alternatives, improved efficiency, and conservation are the only ways to achieve independence from price fluctuations in oil in the long term and the only way to lower prices in the short term.

It's a huge number of things, I'll post a topic linking an article I wrote later tonight. Many of what people can do is vastly overlooked.

If that is the case, then why is it that when OPEC cuts production, oil prices rise? Surely if that's the case, supply must make prices fall?

In the very short term; however, unless demand slows or falls it will catch up to any increase in supply and keep prices high. In fact, the past few OPEC moves have had no effect on the price of oil; however, some of this is due to the fact that the oil price surge is due to a shortage of refining capacity rather than crude...after all, oil is useless unless it is refined in to products.

The goal of OPEC, or any producer of any good for that matter, is to make sure that they can get the highest market price for their good without causing demand destruction because that leads to a price collapse.


I at least agree with this. Unfortunately, I already conserve as much as I can.

Well, hopefully that's taking some of the sting of higher prices out. The government is helping by providing tax and similar benefits for energy improvements, but that doesn't help with the actual bills.

It's a huge number of things, I'll post a topic linking an article I wrote later tonight. Many of what people can do is vastly overlooked.

Alternative energy and efficiency are huge, and are just starting to take off...the next few decades will be an extremely exciting time in energy, especially if you have the money to invest in it. Oil will be abandoned because it is no longer useful before it actually runs out or prices spike out of control...the Saudis realize this, and are openly starting to say the Petroleum Age is drawing to an end.

That's a good thing in more ways than can be mentioned in one post...the 21st century will be one of transition, but a good transition in the long term.

This thread really gives me the heebie jeebies.

It's my oil if I am strong enough to take it from you. That's why morality is important, because otherwise the strongest will always plunder from the weak.

It's been that way for over 4000 years. Why should it change?

It didn't change for Jesus. It didn't change for Mohammed. It's not going to chnage until our concept of profit changes.

Who cares what right-wing morons think? Ignore this.
Indeed. Not every bit of orally-secreted methane demands an angry rebuttal. Regale in the auto-dupery of Whittier--.

Is it? Or is venezuela the mugger for charging the US's citizens through the nose for oil? See this is all subjective, so not matter what you say, you can't effectively call one side more moral than the other. Cutting their production to charge us more cuses us too many problems. No matter where you go with this, you can not prove one the better.

That, effectively, was my point. So I care not about what is or is not moral, I only care that I don't want to pay high gas prices.

No, but killing some asshole so that we can quit suffering from his high gas prices is a far cry from breaking into a house, raping someone, and gouging someone elses eyes out. I do hope you realise the major difference.

has it entered your thick skull that the US and UK both charge the exact same as venezuela for oil? you going to kill oil executives or pump attendents too? or are you just a coward who likes to be 'controversial' behind the anonimity if your screen?

you dickhead

Hugo Chavez is my hero.

(you hear that, ECHELON?)

FARC-EP IS THE LEFT
Sen. Carlos Gaviria of the leftist Alternative Democratic Pole party is not a part of FARC-EP, for example. As such, your statement was grossly inaccurate.

:upyours:

:upyours:
Eloquent and informative, I must say. I am impressed.

It's been that way for over 4000 years. Why should it change? It didn't change for Jesus. It didn't change for Mohammed. It's not going to chnage until our concept of profit changes.

Even when our concept of profit changed under Communism, the plundering continued. I don't think it will change until there is an end to scarcity...which might never happen.

If you don't believe in God, then nothing I say will convince you that God talks to me.
If you don't believe in God, then neither will you believe that God speaks to people. For God to speak to people, he must first exist.
For God to tell someone that he is going to do thus and thus, would it not make sense that God himself must exist in order for him to do this. For a nonexistent being can do nothing.
But I believe God is all, knows all, see all, and is above all. He has revealed to me signs and dreams showing me that he exists.
When God gives me dreams, and then a month or maybe a couple of years later they come true. I believe then it was God who spoke to me.
When God says "This evening I will heal this girl or that girl." And it happens, I believe it was God who spoke to me.
When God says to look into a scripture passage, and when I do I find out it is very relevant to what is happening in the present moment, I believe it was God who told me to look at the particular passage.
When I have doubts, and I asked God for somekind of sign. And I see one in the sky. To me, that is proof that God exists.
When I pray for something, and it happens, that proves to me that God listens to my prayers. But even if he didn't answer them, I would still know he is listening to them.

But for any of this to be possible, God must first exist as a real entity.

Please, tell how to trip in time, I'd like to visit your original era, the middle Age. You sound like an al-Qaeda fanatic, that's why I hate religions, at the end are all the same, the good people is always good but the crazy as you thinks they have the Truth (see the capital?)

Not everyone can do it. That makes it a bit of a big deal. It is written that this is the preferred way but that most people cannot do it. They do not have the spiritual or emotional strength too. To say these things opens one up to accusations of arrogance. Yet, I did not say these things, God did. And his apostles noted it in the New Testament.
A person who has abstained until they are 19 has done well for himself. He has done better than a person who gave in. But one who abstains for long period of time does better than a person who abstains for a short period. And he who abstains at all doeth better than he who abstains not at all.
God had put into my heart to do this. To prove to people that it is possible, even in the face of temptation. I understand the difficulties and why such a vow is not attractive. I have had many women insinuate they wanted to hook up, or just shack up for the evening. I've had 5 women just come right and say they wanted to have sex with me. I've had two girls beg me for sex.
I've felt the magnetic pull of the lips towards the girls' lips. With such magnetic pulling, it is of no wonder that most are unable to fulfill a vow of abstinence until the age of 30. Yet somehow I have done so. And by doing so, I have proven, against all odds, that it can be done.
Such that for those who think they can't live without sex or romance, my own life proves that you can live without those things. With God all things are possible. It just takes faith.
But you haven't yet proved why someone would want to do something like that. Writtings are made by men, so their word has no extra value for me, of course an atheist. So for me you've proved that's is possible to keep you virgin 'til 30 and your mind out of any critic thought. Anyway, your God ask believers to keep themselves virgin 'til marriage, not to end your vow and became a sex bomb. And, of course, one of the things about cristianism is this part about not to kill, little piece of military shit, gone to the earth of Abraham to kill inocent people.
Bye

has it entered your thick skull that the US and UK both charge the exact same as venezuela for oil? you going to kill oil executives or pump attendents too? or are you just a coward who likes to be 'controversial' behind the anonimity if your screen?

you dickhead
The SR, cut out the personal insulting please.

:upyours:
And Tograna... make an attempt at a discussion as opposed to using the stupid smiley.

Not everyone can do it. That makes it a bit of a big deal. It is written that this is the preferred way but that most people cannot do it. They do not have the spiritual or emotional strength too. To say these things opens one up to accusations of arrogance. Yet, I did not say these things, God did. And his apostles noted it in the New Testament.
A person who has abstained until they are 19 has done well for himself. He has done better than a person who gave in. But one who abstains for long period of time does better than a person who abstains for a short period. And he who abstains at all doeth better than he who abstains not at all.
God had put into my heart to do this. To prove to people that it is possible, even in the face of temptation. I understand the difficulties and why such a vow is not attractive. I have had many women insinuate they wanted to hook up, or just shack up for the evening. I've had 5 women just come right and say they wanted to have sex with me. I've had two girls beg me for sex.
I've felt the magnetic pull of the lips towards the girls' lips. With such magnetic pulling, it is of no wonder that most are unable to fulfill a vow of abstinence until the age of 30. Yet somehow I have done so. And by doing so, I have proven, against all odds, that it can be done.
Such that for those who think they can't live without sex or romance, my own life proves that you can live without those things. With God all things are possible. It just takes faith.
Whit, whit, whit *shakes head*

"I'm a man of God and to prove it I will tell you all about how women are begging to have sex with me." Now, a less prideful man might have said that any man who is out and about in the world would have opportunities for sex by 30, so it's not a matter of opportunity or some similarly humble comment, but instead we get to hear about the women who were begging you for sex. What a beautiful expression of what Christianity has become for some people - a way to 'prove' they are better than others. I hope one day you find your way and Christianity becomes the tool of your glorification of God and not your glorification of Whittier.

Pat Robertson is a false prophet. God does not talk to him. But if you choose to follow Pat Robertson, even though you now know him to be a false prophet, that is your problem.

Ding, ding, ding. We can evaluate the prophet by the fruit they yeild. Let's see what have we seen from the current prophet, calls for murder, unending and unabated pride, supreme judgement, glorification of violence... need I go on. You're right. Pat Robertson is a false prophet. I could the first time I heard he advocating violence and murder and being prideful. Now who else who might be in this thread sounds JUST like him? hmmmmm...

Ding, ding, ding. We can evaluate the prophet by the fruit they yeild. Let's see what have we seen from the current prophet, calls for murder, unending and unabated pride, supreme judgement, glorification of violence... need I go on. You're right. Pat Robertson is a false prophet. I could the first time I heard he advocating violence and murder and being prideful. Now who else who might be in this thread sounds JUST like him? hmmmmm...

*Raises hand and waves frantically* Ooo! I know! I know! I can answer that!

:D

Is it? Or is venezuela the mugger for charging the US's citizens through the nose for oil? See this is all subjective, so not matter what you say, you can't effectively call one side more moral than the other. Cutting their production to charge us more cuses us too many problems. No matter where you go with this, you can not prove one the better.

By your logic, if you were a shopkeeper, I would be perfectly justified in shooting you in the face with a shotgun because I didn't like your prices and can then plunder your store, rape your daughters and burn your house down.

And I would'nt be in the moral wrong either.


No, but killing some asshole so that we can quit suffering from his high gas prices is a far cry from breaking into a house, raping someone, and gouging someone elses eyes out. I do hope you realise the major difference.

Killing someone because you don't like his prices and stealing his goods is the argument of the criminally minded. Thanks for proving just how you think to the board.

Cretin.

This is one of your few sensible sentences. If my kind of socialists were in power those people would have both tough security and good social programmes.
well, Chavez socialists like Heikoku and other Chavistas don't believe in law and order. They only believe in exporting revolution and violating basic human rights.

In much the same way as "It's my oil if I am strong enough to take it from you." is wrong, "I have the right to rape your ass if I'm strong enough to force it." is wrong, don't you agree?
A very very false comparison.

well, Chavez socialists like Heikoku and other Chavistas don't believe in law and order. They only believe in exporting revolution and violating basic human rights.

You've endorsed tons of violations to law and order. Please don't suggest that you're in a position to suggest others need to be more committed to the ideas. It's just so ridiculous that it's unbelievable.

Whit, whit, whit *shakes head*

"I'm a man of God and to prove it I will tell you all about how women are begging to have sex with me." Now, a less prideful man might have said that any man who is out and about in the world would have opportunities for sex by 30, so it's not a matter of opportunity or some similarly humble comment, but instead we get to hear about the women who were begging you for sex. What a beautiful expression of what Christianity has become for some people - a way to 'prove' they are better than others. I hope one day you find your way and Christianity becomes the tool of your glorification of God and not your glorification of Whittier.
I'm sorry but as a false christian you are not in a position to correct a true christian. The requirements for being a true Christian is that you have to accept the whole Bible as the word of God. You have already said, in other threads, that you do not accept the WHOLE Bible as having the authority of God, but rather only the bits and peices that agree with you humanistic views.

I'm sorry but as a false christian you are not in a position to correct a true christian. The requirements for being a true Christian is that you have to accept the whole Bible as the word of God. You have already said, in other threads, that you do not accept the WHOLE Bible as having the authority of God, but rather only the bits and peices that agree with you humanistic views.
Uh-huh. Ad hominem. I'm sure God would prefer I bastardize his word and use it to advocate violence, revolution, war, death, destruction of rights and false prophecy. I know Jesus was a big advocate of such things. Oh, wait... that wasn't Jesus. Forgive me while I remember the only judge that matters is not you, false prophet.

I know it bothers you that I'm honest and admit what parts I find a problem with instead of just lying and saying I follow the Bible while ignoring all the important teachings of Jesus. People who use the Bible for power and as an excuse to judge other people hate Christians like me. You know the ones that actually worship Christ and his teachings. I'm sorry people who worship Christ AND follow his teaching offend you. I truly am.

Ding, ding, ding. We can evaluate the prophet by the fruit they yeild. Let's see what have we seen from the current prophet, calls for murder, unending and unabated pride, supreme judgement, glorification of violence... need I go on. You're right. Pat Robertson is a false prophet. I could the first time I heard he advocating violence and murder and being prideful. Now who else who might be in this thread sounds JUST like him? hmmmmm...
You've told repeatedly to stop pretending to be christian when the FACT is that you are not.

*Raises hand and waves frantically* Ooo! I know! I know! I can answer that!

:D
yes yes yes, the anti christian america hater who calls for the deaths of Americans always has something to say.

You've endorsed tons of violations to law and order. Please don't suggest that you're in a position to suggest others need to be more committed to the ideas. It's just so ridiculous that it's unbelievable.

If you support the right commie sob's like Chavez to continue to oppress their own people, then yes. When the laws of man violate the laws of God, it is our duty to break and ignore the laws of man.

yes yes yes, the anti christian america hater who calls for the deaths of Americans always has something to say.

I wonder why he has an issue with Americans and Christians when lovely people like you are calling for the violent overthrow of his government and the denial of his rights. Can't imagine why he might have a problem with that. Oddly, I'm both American and a Christian, even having served in the USMC, and he doesn't seem to have any problem with me as an American. Perhaps it's because I don't want to kill any of his friends and family.

If you support the right commie sob's like Chavez to continue to oppress their own people, then yes. When the laws of man violate the laws of God, it is our duty to break and ignore the laws of man.

Uh-huh. MURDER DEATH DESTRUCTION BECAUSE IT'S WHAT JESUS WOULD WANT!!!

Ridiculous. You can't even prove your claims. Meanwhile, you advocate violence in the name of God and tell me I'm not a True Christian. Golly I wish I could find a way to be a more violent Christian. It's clearly a world Got wants. Did God tell you to call him an SOB too?

You've told repeatedly to stop pretending to be christian when the FACT is that you are not.

I'm glad appointed you the judge of that. Can you tell me where in the Bible it says I should subject myself to your judgment, false prophet?

I wonder if one day when I become a 'true' Christian I'll say hypocritical things like calling for the murder of someone's countrymen and then insulting them when they respond in kind. Or call people SOB's. Or write violent and profane poems about women. Or declare myself a prophet while saying all those things. Or declare that I have the right to judge man. Or carry out the will of God with violence and destruction. Golly, Whit, can you teach me how to be violent, profane, spiritually judgemental, spiritually prideful and a warmonger, so I can be a real Christian? I know that's what Jesus would have wanted for me. Please, oh, please, counsel me in the ways of the violent Christian.

Uh-huh. Ad hominem. I'm sure God would prefer I bastardize his word and use it to advocate violence, revolution, war, death, destruction of rights and false prophecy. I know Jesus was a big advocate of such things. Oh, wait... that wasn't Jesus. Forgive me while I remember the only judge that matters is not you, false prophet.

I know it bothers you that I'm honest and admit what parts I find a problem with instead of just lying and saying I follow the Bible while ignoring all the important teachings of Jesus. People who use the Bible for power and as an excuse to judge other people hate Christians like me. You know the ones that actually worship Christ and his teachings. I'm sorry people who worship Christ AND follow his teaching offend you. I truly am.
You need to attend church a weekly basis, get saved and become a REAL christian. Real Christians accept the whole word of God. And when God reveals something to them, they don't hold it back just because someone like yourself might be offended. To do so, would be disobedience to God.
God has judged Chavez, therefore he and his failed system are on the way out.
I didn't invent the message I am just passing it on. But as you claimed total authority to say in the other thread, like you claim total authority on absolutely everything, "God does not talk to anyone unless I give him permission to."
God is omnipotent. He doesn't need your permission, he doesn't need my permission. He can pass his message through whoever he wants. To reject the word of God's prophets is to reject God himself. For the prophets are his messengers. Their messages are meant either to exhort or to warn of judgment in the event that behavior is not changed.
You do not like being judged. You want to be a christian but you do not want to give up your lifestyle. You cannot serve both manna and God. For you will either love one and hate the other or vice versa. You cannot, comfortably sit on the fence. Either you are all for God, or you not for him. As Jesus has said, "Those who are not with me are against me."
God does not want just a part of you. God does not just want you in church once every 3 or 4 months. He wants the whole of you, every day of the week.
Oh yeah, I thought I should let you know what happened when I took your advice. I sent emails to some christian groups telling them about my dreams and such. They had some deep questions. Most of them said they believed that I was recieving messages from God. There was one group who wasn't. It was some southern baptist group that said they didn't believe in miracles. Well if you don't believe in miracles you aren't exactly going to believe in prophecy either.

You need to attend church a weekly basis, get saved and become a REAL christian. Real Christians accept the whole word of God. And when God reveals something to them, they don't hold it back just because someone like yourself might be offended. To do so, would be disobedience to God.
God has judged Chavez, therefore he and his failed system are on the way out.
I didn't invent the message I am just passing it on. But as you claimed total authority to say in the other thread, like you claim total authority on absolutely everything, "God does not talk to anyone unless I give him permission to."
God is omnipotent. He doesn't need your permission, he doesn't need my permission. He can pass his message through whoever he wants. To reject the word of God's prophets is to reject God himself. For the prophets are his messengers. Their messages are meant either to exhort or to warn of judgment in the event that behavior is not changed.
You do not like being judged. You want to be a christian but you do not want to give up your lifestyle. You cannot serve both manna and God. For you will either love one and hate the other or vice versa. You cannot, comfortably sit on the fence. Either you are all for God, or you not for him. As Jesus has said, "Those who are not with me are against me."
God does not want just a part of you. God does not just want you in church once every 3 or 4 months. He wants the whole of you, every day of the week.
Oh yeah, I thought I should let you know what happened when I took your advice. I sent emails to some christian groups telling them about my dreams and such. They had some deep questions. Most of them said they believed that I was recieving messages from God. There was one group who wasn't. It was some southern baptist group that said they didn't believe in miracles. Well if you don't believe in miracles you aren't exactly going to believe in prophecy either.

Hey, whittier?

I really need to let you in on a bit of a secret, before you keep saying stuff like this.

...

God doesn't exist.

I wonder why he has an issue with Americans and Christians when lovely people like you are calling for the violent overthrow of his government and the denial of his rights. Can't imagine why he might have a problem with that. Oddly, I'm both American and a Christian, even having served in the USMC, and he doesn't seem to have any problem with me as an American. Perhaps it's because I don't want to kill any of his friends and family.
You may be American but you are NOT christian.
He's brazilian so its not his government. And his friends and family are already under threat of death from all the death gangs that the Brazilian government is allowing to run rampant in his own country. He loves Chavez and wishes his country would be more like Venezuela. But hey, Venezuela has a lot of gangs and death squads going around killing people in broad daylight in the middle of down town too.
None of the conservatives here on NS have ever once called for the assassination of Chavez. We called for his removal from power.
We have condemned his evil regime. Not once has any one called for Chavez assassination, though it would be a good idea. No one here has threatened to kill either Heikoku or any of his friends or his family for that matter. The fact that he makes such claim proves he is as delusional as Chavez.

Uh-huh. MURDER DEATH DESTRUCTION BECAUSE IT'S WHAT JESUS WOULD WANT!!!

Ridiculous. You can't even prove your claims. Meanwhile, you advocate violence in the name of God and tell me I'm not a True Christian. Golly I wish I could find a way to be a more violent Christian. It's clearly a world Got wants. Did God tell you to call him an SOB too?
Its not that he wants it, its that he allows it because that is his judgement against filthy immoral sinners.

You need to attend church a weekly basis, get saved and become a REAL christian. Real Christians accept the whole word of God. And when God reveals something to them, they don't hold it back just because someone like yourself might be offended. To do so, would be disobedience to God.
God has judged Chavez, therefore he and his failed system are on the way out.
I didn't invent the message I am just passing it on. But as you claimed total authority to say in the other thread, like you claim total authority on absolutely everything, "God does not talk to anyone unless I give him permission to."
God is omnipotent. He doesn't need your permission, he doesn't need my permission. He can pass his message through whoever he wants. To reject the word of God's prophets is to reject God himself. For the prophets are his messengers. Their messages are meant either to exhort or to warn of judgment in the event that behavior is not changed.
You do not like being judged. You want to be a christian but you do not want to give up your lifestyle. You cannot serve both manna and God. For you will either love one and hate the other or vice versa. You cannot, comfortably sit on the fence. Either you are all for God, or you not for him. As Jesus has said, "Those who are not with me are against me."
God does not want just a part of you. God does not just want you in church once every 3 or 4 months. He wants the whole of you, every day of the week.
Oh yeah, I thought I should let you know what happened when I took your advice. I sent emails to some christian groups telling them about my dreams and such. They had some deep questions. Most of them said they believed that I was recieving messages from God. There was one group who wasn't. It was some southern baptist group that said they didn't believe in miracles. Well if you don't believe in miracles you aren't exactly going to believe in prophecy either.

Ha. More from the false prophet. Hey, when will it go out? How? Who will do it? Come on. You're a prophet. No need to be vague.

I am all for God. That's why you won't find me writing violent, mysogynist poems or calling for murder or claiming to be the mouth of God while doing all these things. I recognize that God is God and I am fallible. I never claim otherwise. You, on the other hand, have. And then after claiming to be speaking for God, you then claimed you were confused then. Yeah, I saw that. Interesting that you are always the mouth of God, but sometimes you're wrong. Judge them by their fruits and your fruits are wrotten, false prophet.

My advice was to show them the threads and what you were saying. I suspect you didn't show them all the things you were saying in those threads. Is there anyone you don't practice to deceive? I didn't say prophecy doesn't exist. I said your fruits evidence that your prophesies are false, false prophet. Or did you send them the threads where you bragged about the women begging to sleep with you and talked about how you were the true mouth of God. Tell you what - why don't you post the email you sent them? Should be amusing to say the least, false prophet.

Hey, whittier?

I really need to let you in on a bit of a secret, before you keep saying stuff like this.

...

God doesn't exist.
The day after you die, in the distant future, you will find out you are wrong about that.

Its not that he wants it, its that he allows it because that is his judgement against filthy immoral sinners.

You need a doctor. This is clearly insane. You actually think that God allows you to be violent. You use God as an excuse for your violent and aggressive claims. People who have found Jesus are at peace. Do you think anything about the nonsense you spew sounds like a man who has found peace. I don't think you even know what peace is.

The day after you die, in the distant future, you will find out you are wrong about that.

I like you whittier. You funny.

I like you whittier. You funny.

I don't think it's funny at all. I worry about him. When people start claiming they are the voice of God and that they have received guidance to violate the law and commit murder as an act of judgement, that's frightening. I'm not making a joke. He has completely broken with reality.

Ha. More from the false prophet. Hey, when will it go out? How? Who will do it? Come on. You're a prophet. No need to be vague.

I am all for God. That's why you won't find me writing violent, mysogynist poems or calling for murder or claiming to be the mouth of God while doing all these things. I recognize that God is God and I am fallible. I never claim otherwise. You, on the other hand, have. And then after claiming to be speaking for God, you then claimed you were confused then. Yeah, I saw that. Interesting that you are always the mouth of God, but sometimes you're wrong. Judge them by their fruits and your fruits are wrotten, false prophet.
God has spoken to me. He has not spoken to you.
Your idea of christianity is the smorgasborg christianity. You take only what you like. You avoid and ignore the parts you don't like.
Christianity is about love. But it is also about warnings and judgments and obeying the law of God. A law you and the other NSers here have violated on repeat occassions.
When a true Christian speaks, you make it your self proclaimed duty to smear said Christian just like you smear everyone else who has ever confronted you. Your style is well known. You are an expert at personal mudslinging which the mods have ruled is a legitimate tool of debate if you are the one using them but if someone else uses them, it is either flaming or trolling.
You could committ murder and they would still look the other way. As long as you defend communist anti americanism.
You are not Christian. A true Christian knows that Christianity is not a smorgasborg. He doesn't just choose the parts he likes and thinks are inoffensive. True Christianity is an offensive religion to most people. Cause it tells them what they can and can't do. It warns them of judgments that will happen if they don't change their ways. You don't want to hear of judgments. You just want to hear "peace love and happiness". Except that the hippies who invented that phrase had it wrong. Their idea of love was a perverted and twisted one.
I only pray that you confess your sins and convert to the only true faith while you still have time.

Everyone, calm down. Please.

Everyone: Stop mocking Whittier, will you? He believes the things he says, about the virginity and that God speaks to him. He isn't trying to export his beliefs to us, he's just detailing them-- originally because I asked him to. Who are we, any of us, to inform him, among other things:

1. That God doesn't exist.

2. That he is a 'false prophet'.

3. That he's crazy.

The first is our belief, just as Christianity is his and many others'. The second... well, we don't know, do we? He might indeed be a prophet, but since his ideas don't fit with the narrow view that we hold we mock him for them. And lastly, is he crazy? Maybe. Might we all be crazy as well?

The fact that we are so unwilling to accept his ideas speaks only to our own closed-mindedness. I'll hold myself up as an example. I said, if you'll care to review the first 1-2 pages of the thread, that he was 'scary' 'crazy' and the like. Then he explained himself. I still don't agree with him, but I do have the grace to accept his beliefs as just as valid as my own. I wish that you would.

Whittier: I'm sorry to hold you up as a martyr, as it were. The closed-mindedness of people is something that bothers me; this thread provided an excellent example. I went off of that, if I put you on the spot somewhere in there-- I didn't intend to. Much of the above goes for you too. Who are you to define what does and does not make a Christian? Even if God does speak to you, does he tell you everything? I'd say that Joaciba is just as entitled to his form of religion (if he has one, not sure) as you are.

You need a doctor. This is clearly insane. You actually think that God allows you to be violent. You use God as an excuse for your violent and aggressive claims. People who have found Jesus are at peace. Do you think anything about the nonsense you spew sounds like a man who has found peace. I don't think you even know what peace is.
I know you are the one who awhile back in a thread about abortion, placed womankind on a pedestal and, placing them in the position of God, declared they had the right to determine who should be allowed to live or die.
They have a two names for that: idolatry, blasphemy.

God is not a pot smoking hippie. But Satan is.

I don't think it's funny at all. I worry about him. When people start claiming they are the voice of God and that they have received guidance to violate the law and commit murder as an act of judgement, that's frightening. I'm not making a joke. He has completely broken with reality.
You make such presumptions for one who claims to know what a christian is supposed to be.
If you were Christian you would know the things I say to be true. God would communicate it to you. But God has not even spoken to you.
You presume that I threatened to kill Chavez and Heikoku based only on Heikoku's word. Why? Because you don't like my version of Christianity. You don't want the part of Christianity that is offensive.
But as Jesus said, you must accept all or none.

God has spoken to me. He has not spoken to you.
How do you know that? You make a lot of assumptions.

Your idea of christianity is the smorgasborg christianity. You take only what you like. You avoid and ignore the parts you don't like.

Is it? I've never anyone who doesn't review the Bible and do similar things. The only difference is that in making decisions on what parts are reliable I ask God, not MAN, for guidance and I don't lie and pretend I'm following parts of the Bible I've completely thrown out. Example: you've condemned many in this and other threads and claimed to be their judge and in Chavez's case the jury. Forget a whole passage dedicated to teaching us the opposite, huh? I'm just an honest Christian. I'm too old to lie about following things I don't.

Christianity is about love. But it is also about warnings and judgments and obeying the law of God. A law you and the other NSers here have violated on repeat occassions.

Have I? Besides following the writings of men that amend the words of Jesus Christ, what laws of God have I violated. Now, on your part I can think of a couple I've proven repeatedly. Let's list a few -

Do not judge
Do unto others
Love your neighbor
Thou shalt not kill (not yet, but you'd kill Chaves if you got the chance)
Thou shalt not bear false witness

How about the deadly sins - Wrath, greed, pride

When a true Christian speaks, you make it your self proclaimed duty to smear said Christian just like you smear everyone else who has ever confronted you. Your style is well known. You are an expert at personal mudslinging which the mods have ruled is a legitimate tool of debate if you are the one using them but if someone else uses them, it is either flaming or trolling.
You could committ murder and they would still look the other way. As long as you defend communist anti americanism.

When a self-proclaimed 'true' Christian speaks I make my DUTY to remind them of what CHRIST taught to CHRISTians. I know how you hate all he had to say. He wanted to create more humble people and not Pharisees. I can see how that would offend you.

The mods have ruled that when a person puts themselves on display, say declaring themselves a prophet of God and thus infallible, it's appropriate to address that person and their claims.

You are not Christian. A true Christian knows that Christianity is not a smorgasborg. He doesn't just choose the parts he likes and thinks are inoffensive. True Christianity is an offensive religion to most people. Cause it tells them what they can and can't do. It warns them of judgments that will happen if they don't change their ways. You don't want to hear of judgments. You just want to hear "peace love and happiness". Except that the hippies who invented that phrase had it wrong. Their idea of love was a perverted and twisted one.

You mean like all the parts of Christianity that suggest humility, love and fairness, you know the stuff that came directly out of our Savior's mouth, the stuff you reject in total.

Ha.

I only pray that you confess your sins and convert to the only true faith while you still have time.
You're so clueless. Judge them by their fruit. I wonder what Jesus would have said about someone advocating violence and writing dangerous mysogynistic poems in his name. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I don't pick and choose the parts of Christianity I'll follow. I follow all of Jesus' teachings. I pick and choose what parts of Paulism I'll follow. You reject the express teachings of Christ while claiming that Paul gets to amend the words of our Savior.

I know you are the one who awhile back in a thread about abortion, placed womankind on a pedestal and, placing them in the position of God, declared they had the right to determine who should be allowed to live or die.
They have a two names for that: idolatry, blasphemy.

God is not a pot smoking hippie. But Satan is.

I did no such thing. One, you apparently don't know what idolatry is, and two, don't know what blasphemy is.

Meanwhile, you claim to decide who lives and dies in this very thread. If idolotry is wrong, what is claiming to be the idol?

Everyone, calm down. Please.

Everyone: Stop mocking Whittier, will you? He believes the things he says, about the virginity and that God speaks to him. He isn't trying to export his beliefs to us, he's just detailing them-- originally because I asked him to. Who are we, any of us, to inform him, among other things:

1. That God doesn't exist.

2. That he is a 'false prophet'.

3. That he's crazy.

The first is our belief, just as Christianity is his and many others'. The second... well, we don't know, do we? He might indeed be a prophet, but since his ideas don't fit with the narrow view that we hold we mock him for them. And lastly, is he crazy? Maybe. Might we all be crazy as well?

The fact that we are so unwilling to accept his ideas speaks only to our own closed-mindedness. I'll hold myself up as an example. I said, if you'll care to review the first 1-2 pages of the thread, that he was 'scary' 'crazy' and the like. Then he explained himself. I still don't agree with him, but I do have the grace to accept his beliefs as just as valid as my own. I wish that you would.

Whittier: I'm sorry to hold you up as a martyr, as it were. The closed-mindedness of people is something that bothers me; this thread provided an excellent example. I went off of that, if I put you on the spot somewhere in there-- I didn't intend to. Much of the above goes for you too. Who are you to define what does and does not make a Christian? Even if God does speak to you, does he tell you everything? I'd say that Joaciba is just as entitled to his form of religion (if he has one, not sure) as you are.

The problem isn't that he chooses to believe what he believes. He is trying to export it. He openly admits he wants it to be law. Look at the things he says. He considers treating women like people to be idolotry. He wants a war in Venezuela. He claims that he is the mouth of God and actively tries to convert people to his way of thinking. And he actually tried to run for congress where he would have the power to do some of the things he advocates. He's not harmless and this isn't about being close-minded. He brought himself as an authority and claims the authority of God in his posts. Calling him a false prophet is germaine to the point.

The Bible says judge them by their fruit. His fruit is available across this forum. You can find mysogynistic poems advocating violence. You can find him claiming one thing and then another that oppose the first all in God's name. You can find him admitting that he was wrong before when he spoke in God's name, but apparently he's alright now. You can find him lying. Misleading. You can find him declaring with all pride how women beg to have sex with him. He's the one who put his 'gift' on display and mentioned the means for measuring such a gift. And he fails every test God asks of us.

I know you are the one who awhile back in a thread about abortion, placed womankind on a pedestal and, placing them in the position of God, declared they had the right to determine who should be allowed to live or die.
Putting woman in the position of God? Whittier, what is your position on medical care? Say, if a sixty-year-old person has a heart attack, should they be taken to the hospital? If we do that, we are judging that it is good for them to live, and wrong for them to die. If we kill Chavez or his supporters, we are judging that it is good for them to die, and wrong for them to live. If God wishes a person to die, can he not strike them down with his own hand? Do you claim to be the Angel of Death, marking some for death and sparing others?

Please, spare us the hypocritical hubris. We are all human, no more. no less, and NONE of us is fit to decide that it is time for another person to die.

How do you know that? You make a lot of assumptions.



Is it? I've never anyone who doesn't review the Bible and do similar things. The only difference is that in making decisions on what parts are reliable I ask God, not MAN, for guidance and I don't lie and pretend I'm following parts of the Bible I've completely thrown out. Example: you've condemned many in this and other threads and claimed to be their judge and in Chavez's case the jury. Forget a whole passage dedicated to teaching us the opposite, huh? I'm just an honest Christian. I'm too old to lie about following things I don't.



Have I? Besides following the writings of men that amend the words of Jesus Christ, what laws of God have I violated. Now, on your part I can think of a couple I've proven repeatedly. Let's list a few -

Do not judge
Do unto others
Love your neighbor
Thou shalt not kill (not yet, but you'd kill Chaves if you got the chance)
Thou shalt not bear false witness

How about the deadly sins - Wrath, greed, pride



When a self-proclaimed 'true' Christian speaks I make my DUTY to remind them of what CHRIST taught to CHRISTians. I know how you hate all he had to say. He wanted to create more humble people and not Pharisees. I can see how that would offend you.

The mods have ruled that when a person puts themselves on display, say declaring themselves a prophet of God and thus infallible, it's appropriate to address that person and their claims.

.

You mean like all the parts of Christianity that suggest humility, love and fairness, you know the stuff that came directly out of our Savior's mouth, the stuff you reject in total.

Ha.


You're so clueless. Judge them by their fruit. I wonder what Jesus would have said about someone advocating violence and writing dangerous mysogynistic poems in his name. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I don't pick and choose the parts of Christianity I'll follow. I follow all of Jesus' teachings. I pick and choose what parts of Paulism I'll follow. You reject the express teachings of Christ while claiming that Paul gets to amend the words of our Savior.
Paul's connection to God and Jesus was far more direct than yours or mine.
Yet you call him a false prophet as you call me a false prophet.
God does not want people to be pot smoking hippies. For the end reward of pot smoking hippiedom is eternity in hell.
I implore you to attend church and learn the true truths of Christianity. Turn away from evil while you still have time.
As Jesus has said, "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the son of man in the clouds of heaven. Men and women will be sacrificing their own children to false gods, men will sleep with men, people will declare that which is right to be wrong and that which is wrong they will declare to be right. Having itching ears they will make up false doctrines, call them Christianity and declare themselves Christians. But they will no tolerance for true christianity. There will be many decievers who will declare themselves spokespeople for Christianity and because of them many will go astray. People will become selfish and lovers of themselves. They will hate the righteous. When you see the abomination of desolation that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, know that the judgment of God against all mankind is at hand."
Those days are not far off. Repent while you still can for the day is coming when God will not accept repentence. The day is coming when it will be too late.
Behold, this very time period, the prophecies spoken of by John are coming to pass.
But today, it is not too late to change your ways.

You make such presumptions for one who claims to know what a christian is supposed to be.
If you were Christian you would know the things I say to be true. God would communicate it to you. But God has not even spoken to you.
You presume that I threatened to kill Chavez and Heikoku based only on Heikoku's word. Why? Because you don't like my version of Christianity. You don't want the part of Christianity that is offensive.
But as Jesus said, you must accept all or none.
I heard it from your mouth. In this thread. Just now. Seriously, is something wrong, Whit? You've always been out there, but you appear to have completely snapped. God grants us peace in our hearts. There is no evidence of peace in yours.

I don't like your 'version' of Christianity because you reject all of the messages of Christ about love and humility. I do accept everything Christ said. I don't allow man to amend it and claim they can do exactly the opposite of his teachings. I can quote you claiming that you should be able to do other than follow the words of Jesus.

However, I don't look to you to define Christianity for me. I look to Jesus and what he wrote on my heart to determine what God wants of me. The only time I ever lose it and become as aggressive as you are to Hei is when I forget to center myself and bring myself back to the teachings. I know when I start struggling I have lost my way. YOU are struggling. You don't sound anything like what you sounded like six months ago when you were claiming to be the mouth of God then. Was God wrong then or is He wrong now? Or perhaps we're just hearing from Whittier and God has nothing to do with it, no?

How do you know that? You make a lot of assumptions.



Is it? I've never anyone who doesn't review the Bible and do similar things. The only difference is that in making decisions on what parts are reliable I ask God, not MAN, for guidance and I don't lie and pretend I'm following parts of the Bible I've completely thrown out. Example: you've condemned many in this and other threads and claimed to be their judge and in Chavez's case the jury. Forget a whole passage dedicated to teaching us the opposite, huh? I'm just an honest Christian. I'm too old to lie about following things I don't.



Have I? Besides following the writings of men that amend the words of Jesus Christ, what laws of God have I violated. Now, on your part I can think of a couple I've proven repeatedly. Let's list a few -

Do not judge
Do unto others
Love your neighbor
Thou shalt not kill (not yet, but you'd kill Chaves if you got the chance)
Thou shalt not bear false witness

How about the deadly sins - Wrath, greed, pride



When a self-proclaimed 'true' Christian speaks I make my DUTY to remind them of what CHRIST taught to CHRISTians. I know how you hate all he had to say. He wanted to create more humble people and not Pharisees. I can see how that would offend you.

The mods have ruled that when a person puts themselves on display, say declaring themselves a prophet of God and thus infallible, it's appropriate to address that person and their claims.

.

You mean like all the parts of Christianity that suggest humility, love and fairness, you know the stuff that came directly out of our Savior's mouth, the stuff you reject in total.

Ha.


You're so clueless. Judge them by their fruit. I wonder what Jesus would have said about someone advocating violence and writing dangerous mysogynistic poems in his name. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I don't pick and choose the parts of Christianity I'll follow. I follow all of Jesus' teachings. I pick and choose what parts of Paulism I'll follow. You reject the express teachings of Christ while claiming that Paul gets to amend the words of our Savior.
Paul's connection to God and Jesus was far more direct than yours or mine.
Yet you call him a false prophet as you call me a false prophet.
God does not want people to be pot smoking hippies. For the end reward of pot smoking hippiedom is eternity in hell.
I implore you to attend church and learn the true truths of Christianity. Turn away from evil while you still have time.
As Jesus has said, "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the son of man in the clouds of heaven. Men and women will be sacrificing their own children to false gods, men will sleep with men, people will declare that which is right to be wrong and that which is wrong they will declare to be right. Having itching ears they will make up false doctrines, call them Christianity and declare themselves Christians. But they will no tolerance for true christianity. There will be many decievers who will declare themselves spokespeople for Christianity and because of them many will go astray. People will become selfish and lovers of themselves. They will hate the righteous. When you see the abomination of desolation that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, know that the judgment of God against all mankind is at hand."
Those days are not far off. Repent while you still can for the day is coming when God will not accept repentence. The day is coming when it will be too late.
Behold, this very time period, the prophecies spoken of by John are coming to pass.
But today, it is not too late to change your ways.

I did no such thing. One, you apparently don't know what idolatry is, and two, don't know what blasphemy is.

Meanwhile, you claim to decide who lives and dies in this very thread. If idolotry is wrong, what is claiming to be the idol?
I have made no claim to decide who lives or dies. You have.

Paul's connection to God and Jesus was far more direct than yours or mine.

You're connection to Jesus isn't direct? Jesus touches my heart very directly. He's my personal Savior. I don't need an intermediary particularly when his writings appear to have picked through among a plethora of other problems.

Yet you call him a false prophet as you call me a false prophet.

I don't call him a false prophet. Quote me, you liar. I call him a man and thus not infallible. I call you a false prophet.

God does not want people to be pot smoking hippies. For the end reward of pot smoking hippiedom is eternity in hell.

Where does that appear in the Bible? I don't remember the word hippie anywhere? It appears that you change who you hate constantly and who you hate always just happens to be condemned. How convenient. You get so much peace from your faith that you want everyone who doesn't do EXACTLY as you say to burn in hell for eternity. Yes, I'm quite glad I don't share your particular brand of faith.

I implore you to attend church and learn the true truths of Christianity. Turn away from evil while you still have time.

How do you know what I do? You keep saying that, but you don't anything about what I do with my time. I consider churches fallible, but it doesn't mean I don't go. And I do turn away from evil - like judgement, murder, mysogyny, pride, false prophesy.

As Jesus has said, "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the son of man in the clouds of heaven. Men and women will be sacrificing their own children to false gods, men will sleep with men, people will declare that which is right to be wrong and that which is wrong they will declare to be right. Having itching ears they will make up false doctrines, call them Christianity and declare themselves Christians. But they will no tolerance for true christianity. There will be many decievers who will declare themselves spokespeople for Christianity and because of them many will go astray. People will become selfish and lovers of themselves. They will hate the righteous. When you see the abomination of desolation that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, know that the judgment of God against all mankind is at hand."
Those days are not far off. Repent while you still can for the day is coming when God will not accept repentence. The day is coming when it will be too late.
Behold, this very time period, the prophecies spoken of by John are coming to pass.
But today, it is not too late to change your ways.
They have been claiming those days are not far off for 2000 years. And 'they' have been a lot more reliable than you. I'm in comfortable in my salvation. That's why I have no need to jump for joy claiming others will burn in hell. That's why I don't feel a desperate need to advocate violence. My relationship with God gives me peace. May you find the same peace.

I have made no claim to decide who lives or dies. You have.
1. Do you support the death penalty? (if so, you claim to decide who lives or dies.)
2. Do you believe that war is ever justified? (if so, you claim to decide who lives or dies.)
3. Regarding Terri Schiavo, do you think she should have been kept alive or unplugged? (either way, you claim to decide who lives or dies.)

I have made no claim to decide who lives or dies. You have.

Can you tell me who I decided would live or who I decided would die?

The problem isn't that he chooses to believe what he believes. He is trying to export it. He openly admits he wants it to be law. Look at the things he says. He considers treating women like people to be idolotry. He wants a war in Venezuela. He claims that he is the mouth of God and actively tries to convert people to his way of thinking. And he actually tried to run for congress where he would have the power to do some of the things he advocates. He's not harmless and this isn't about being close-minded. He brought himself as an authority and claims the authority of God in his posts. Calling him a false prophet is germaine to the point.

The Bible says judge them by their fruit. His fruit is available across this forum. You can find mysogynistic poems advocating violence. You can find him claiming one thing and then another that oppose the first all in God's name. You can find him admitting that he was wrong before when he spoke in God's name, but apparently he's alright now. You can find him lying. Misleading. You can find him declaring with all pride how women beg to have sex with him. He's the one who put his 'gift' on display and mentioned the means for measuring such a gift. And he fails every test God asks of us.
It is not for you to decide which religious faith is communicated and which is not. My faith, unlike yours, is not based on banning other people's religions or their expression of those religions.
I consider the statement that women should be in the position to decide if a perfectly healthy baby lives or dies to be idolatry. Treating them like people has nothing to do with it.
I never called for war in Venezuela. I said we needed to be on guard against them and be prepared to defend any nation they attack or interfere in. If that leads to war, then it will be a just war.
I never advocated a theocracy. That's a blatant lie and slander that the mods continue to let you spout. But if it continues my lawyer will contact the admin.
This is entirely about being closed minded.
"You can find mysogynistic poems advocating violence.' Again more slander. Point to the poem. Qoute it.
I have never claimed to be wrong unless God told me I was.

"You can find him declaring with all pride how women beg to have sex with him. "
Again more slander. I wasn't declaring anything. Just stating facts of my own experience to explain an aspect of my personal beliefs.
God does not give us gifts to hide them in the closet. He gives them to us to exhort and to warn.

Can you tell me who I decided would live or who I decided would die?

Jocabia, I am going to argue that we all do. Humankind seeks control over the world, seeks to dominate it. Medical technology causes people to live longer than they would naturally, as well as drastically decreasing infant mortality rates. As a result, we have rampant overpopulation across the globe.

I am not saying that these things are wrong. There is good and bad that comes of them, and I do not have the wisdom to decide anything in the matter.

But we all make judgments on who should live or die.

If that leads to war, then it will be a just war.

If you say that a war is justified, then you say it is justified to kill another human being, for certain reasons. Killing someone, or ordering their death, is making the ultimate judgment as to whether they should live or die. You have just disproved your statement of "I have made no claim to decide who lives or dies."

Please explain the contradiction.

Jocabia, I am going to argue that we all do. Humankind seeks control over the world, seeks to dominate it. Medical technology causes people to live longer than they would naturally, as well as drastically decreasing infant mortality rates. As a result, we have rampant overpopulation across the globe.

I am not saying that these things are wrong. There is good and bad that comes of them, and I do not have the wisdom to decide anything in the matter.

But we all make judgments on who should live or die.



If you say that a war is justified, then you say it is justified to kill another human being, for certain reasons. Killing someone, or ordering their death, is making the ultimate judgment as to whether they should live or die. You have just disproved your statement of "I have made no claim to decide who lives or dies."

Please explain the contradiction.
Am I the President of the United States or another country? No. I am not the one who decides to send troops into harms way.
But Jesus himself said that those who live by the way of the sword will die by the way of the sword. Those who participate in an illegal invasion of a neighbor, who then fall by the bullets of those who seek to free the neighbor of their illegal occupation. It will be a fulfillment of Jesus prophecy.
A peace that exists when people refuse to confront evils, like Nazi Germany, is not a real peace. It is not a just peace. God does not want to impose that kind of peace on us.
God allows wars, so that evil men like Saddam and Chavez and Khamieni may not go unpunished. God uses war sometimes to put an end to evil. Just as he did in Nazi Germany, he snared Hitler by the mouth and dragged him into Poland to start the second world war so that the German people could be freed from his tyranny and be free to chose of their own accord if they wish to worship him or even believe in him.
It was the same with Saddam.

It is not for you to decide which religious faith is communicated and which is not. My faith, unlike yours, is not based on banning other people's religions or their expression of those religions.

You won't stop lying. Whose religion would I ban or oppress? You want to make some of your religious views law. I feel no need to do so. You've stated here that I advocate rights. Don't sit up here and lie. Quote me EVER saying that ANY religion should be banned or oppressed. I am getting really tired of your lies.

I consider the statement that women should be in the position to decide if a perfectly healthy baby lives or dies to be idolatry. Treating them like people has nothing to do with it.

I never declared any such thing. I have never offered women such a right. I said we cannot objectively establish life, so I don not propose to choose for them or God. Interestingly, God does not treat a fetus as equal to a baby. Unless of course you are claiming the scripture is wrong.

You have declared that a war with Venezuela is a just war. That is deciding who lives or dies and the people who would die there are most certainly people. And idolotry means worshiping someone else. It's God's word. Stop bastardizing the teachings to meet your ends.

I never called for war in Venezuela. I said we needed to be on guard against them and be prepared to defend any nation they attack or interfere in. If that leads to war, then it will be a just war.

Uh-huh. A just war, but you're not calling for it. I don't think even you know what you're trying to say.

I never advocated a theocracy. That's a blatant lie and slander that the mods continue to let you spout. But if it continues my lawyer will contact the admin.

Ha. You continue to lie. One, where did I mention a theocracy. I said you want to make your beliefs law. There are shades of that. Meanwhile, get that lawyer. That should be more than amusing.

This is entirely about being closed minded.
"You can find mysogynistic poems advocating violence.' Again more slander. Point to the poem. Qoute it.

Ha. The one that is no longer on your site? Don't worry. We all saw it, Robert. I love when you post a challenge when you know I'm telling the truth and you know you deleted it and the mods deleted that thread. Tell you what. If the poem wasn't mysogynistic and violent why don't YOU post it?

I have never claimed to be wrong unless God told me I was.

God told you were wrong when you were claiming you were speaking for him. Hmmm... Seriously, pay attention, because how quickly you contradict yourself is just terrible.

"You can find him declaring with all pride how women beg to have sex with him. "

It's an opinion about what I saw. Look up the word slander. You did say that and the pride part is my opinion.

Again more slander. I wasn't declaring anything. Just stating facts of my own experience to explain an aspect of my personal beliefs.
God does not give us gifts to hide them in the closet. He gives them to us to exhort and to warn.
Uh-huh and to advocate violence and mysogyny and evil. Oh, wait... those don't come from God.

Am I the President of the United States or another country? No. I am not the one who decides to send troops into harms way.
But Jesus himself said that those who live by the way of the sword will die by the way of the sword.

Againk, you bastardize the word. When Jesus said that, he was telling Peter to put down the sword when he was going to stop Jesus from being UNJUSTLY arrested. The Romans were as unjust as Chavez ever was or will be and still Jesus instructed those who followed him to lay down their weapons.

Those who participate in an illegal invasion of a neighbor, who then fall by the bullets of those who seek to free the neighbor of their illegal occupation. It will be a fulfillment of Jesus prophecy.
A peace that exists when people refuse to confront evils, like Nazi Germany, is not a real peace. It is not a just peace. God does not want to impose that kind of peace on us.
God allows wars, so that evil men like Saddam and Chavez and Khamieni may not go unpunished. God uses war sometimes to put an end to evil. Just as he did in Nazi Germany, he snared Hitler by the mouth and dragged him into Poland to start the second world war so that the German people could be freed from his tyranny and be free to chose of their own accord if they wish to worship him or even believe in him.
It was the same with Saddam.

Oh, look more of the same. You *gasp* deciding who lives or dies. You expressly decide who you think should live or die and it's 'just'. I refuse to do so and it's idolatry. It would be amusing if you weren't serious.

Am I the President of the United States or another country? No. I am not the one who decides to send troops into harms way.
But Jesus himself said that those who live by the way of the sword will die by the way of the sword. Those who participate in an illegal invasion of a neighbor, who then fall by the bullets of those who seek to free the neighbor of their illegal occupation. It will be a fulfillment of Jesus prophecy.
A peace that exists when people refuse to confront evils, like Nazi Germany, is not a real peace. It is not a just peace. God does not want to impose that kind of peace on us.
God allows wars, so that evil men like Saddam and Chavez and Khamieni may not go unpunished. God uses war sometimes to put an end to evil. Just as he did in Nazi Germany, he snared Hitler by the mouth and dragged him into Poland to start the second world war so that the German people could be freed from his tyranny and be free to chose of their own accord if they wish to worship him or even believe in him.
It was the same with Saddam.

If God were directly responsible for the fall of Saddam or Hitler, he never would have let them gain power in the first place. It's really a much simpler solution.

Jesus' quote about living and dying by the sword does NOT support violence. It is a warning against violence.

Am I the President of the United States or another country? No. I am not the one who decides to send troops into harms way.

If you were the President, would you make the decision to go to war in such an instance? Since you are not, would you oppose it? Allowing something to happen when it could be prevented is the same as causing it, only more directly.

*Examines the pot-holes everywhere*

Wow, a war zone. :eek:

Damn right it is :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :rolleyes:

Againk, you bastardize the word. When Jesus said that, he was telling Peter to put down the sword when he was going to stop Jesus from being UNJUSTLY arrested. The Romans were as unjust as Chavez ever was or will be and still Jesus instructed those who followed him to lay down their weapons.



Oh, look more of the same. You *gasp* deciding who lives or dies. You expressly decide who you think should live or die and it's 'just'. I refuse to do so and it's idolatry. It would be amusing if you weren't serious.
Have fun with that pot you're smoking and all that free promiscuous sex and other evil things you enjoy.
There is no getting through to you.

If God were directly responsible for the fall of Saddam or Hitler, he never would have let them gain power in the first place. It's really a much simpler solution.

Jesus' quote about living and dying by the sword does NOT support violence. It is a warning against violence.



If you were the President, would you make the decision to go to war in such an instance? Since you are not, would you oppose it? Allowing something to happen when it could be prevented is the same as causing it, only more directly.
If necessary and diplomacy absolutely did not work yes I would. But not because I like war or killing people.

Have fun with that pot you're smoking and all that free promiscuous sex and other evil things you enjoy.
There is no getting through to you.

Ha. Amusing. Did God give you the authority to just make things up? I don't smoke pot. No promiscuous sex. I don't know of any evil things I enjoy, not even writing mysogynist poems advocating violence or calling for 'just' wars or rewriting passages of the Bible where Jesus tells his followers to lay down his arms as a prescription to fight. Yep, I don't do any of those things. But thanks for playing. Now, I know for sure you are not speaking God's word. Because God would know I don't do any of those things.

If necessary and diplomacy absolutely did not work yes I would. But not because I like war or killing people.

Funny, I seem to remember a poem that seem to revel in violence. You have a pretty tricky way of showing you don't like violence. I know I would start proving that I am peaceful by spending all my time reveling in violence. That's clearly the most sensible way to go about it.

Funny, I seem to remember a poem that seem to revel in violence. You have a pretty tricky way of showing you don't like violence. I know I would start proving that I am peaceful by spending all my time reveling in violence. That's clearly the most sensible way to go about it.
just goes to show you really don't know your buttocks from a whole in the ground.
Must have been all that weed you smoked as a child. It messed up your head.

Jocabia in 1939:
Gee Mr. Hitler that wasn't very nice of you take over Poland and Austria and them. And I don't think you should kill Jews. But I am not going to do anything about it cause I support peace, love, promiscuoity and free pot. So you just go ahead and do what you want and I'll do my best to make sure those evil Americans don't stick their noses in it.

If that had actually happened all of Europe and Russia would now be part of the Nazi Empire.
America of course would still have kicked Japan's ass without any help.

Funny, I seem to remember a poem that seem to revel in violence. You have a pretty tricky way of showing you don't like violence. I know I would start proving that I am peaceful by spending all my time reveling in violence. That's clearly the most sensible way to go about it.
I like the way you are now claiming that the mods deleted the thread. LOL LOL LOL
ooh. Here's an idea: Maybe they might have stuck in this thing called the archives where they put a lot of the old threads. Unless you're little brain is too busy trying to come up with another personal attack.
Then again you are most likely just making an excuse so you don't have to actually prove what you are saying.

just goes to show you really don't know your buttocks from a whole in the ground.
Must have been all that weed you smoked as a child. It messed up your head.
Ha. That's great. For someone with the gift for prophesy, you sure are wrong a lot. I was in the Marine Corps at 17 and before that I was a competitive athelete year round. Pot wasn't an option. Would making things up about other people make a 'true Christian'?

And, yes, that poem was violent. You can pretend otherwise but many of the people in this thread read it.

Jocabia in 1939:
Gee Mr. Hitler that wasn't very nice of you take over Poland and Austria and them. And I don't think you should kill Jews. But I am not going to do anything about it cause I support peace, love, promiscuoity and free pot. So you just go ahead and do what you want and I'll do my best to make sure those evil Americans don't stick their noses in it.

If that had actually happened all of Europe and Russia would now be part of the Nazi Empire.
America of course would still have kicked Japan's ass without any help.
Yes, because that's what I said. Or perhaps I wouldn't claim it was a God thing and admit it's a man thing. There's a big difference. I believe in the very part of the Bible you quoted Jesus said if he REALLY wanted to prevent a problem he could call up an army at a moment's notice. God can stop a war if he likes or allow it to occur if he likes. However, he doesn't micromanage us like that. If we war, WE war. If we have peace, WE have peace. God would have us have peace rather than invading sovereign countries.

Amazingly, you claim God told you the reigh of Chavez is over, but you said what you think we should do in the event God doesn't do it. Why the contingency plans, prophet? Oh, that's right. Because God didn't tell you anything and you have no idea what will happen.

I like the way you are now claiming that the mods deleted the thread. LOL LOL LOL
ooh. Here's an idea: Maybe they might have stuck in this thing called the archives where they put a lot of the old threads. Unless you're little brain is too busy trying to come up with another personal attack.
Then again you are most likely just making an excuse so you don't have to actually prove what you are saying.

Interesting. How do you know what the mods did with your poem you claim doesn't exist? First, I'm making it up and then you know where I can find it. How fun. If there is nothing wrong with the poem, post it, Robert.

Ha. That's great. For someone with the gift for prophesy, you sure are wrong a lot. I was in the Marine Corps at 17 and before that I was a competitive athelete year round. Pot wasn't an option. Would making things up about other people make a 'true Christian'?

And, yes, that poem was violent. You can pretend otherwise but many of the people in this thread read it.
Hmm. That's most interesting. You say you've been in the marine corps since 17. But just a month ago you claimed to be a teacher.

I also think it interesting that you claim to have served in the marines yet you hate America. A country whose marines you supposedly served in.

You take the Bible, cut it up and then put together the pieces you like into a new Bible and you toss the rest in the trash as coming from stupid humans.

You take the US Constitution, cut it up, twist it and fold to make it say what you want.

You take other people's writings and twist them to say what you want them to say.

I must admit, people like you make me puke. If you had your way, there would be no constitution and no America. And anyone who expresses religious faith would be locked up in prison for "being prideful".

Interesting. How do you know what the mods did with your poem you claim doesn't exist? First, I'm making it up and then you know where I can find it. How fun. If there is nothing wrong with the poem, post it, Robert.
oh I just love how you pull the old switcharoo.
I never claimed it didn't exist. I never said it you made it up. I said it wasn't mysognistic which you said it was. You also claimed it promotes violence against women.

You mentioned the poem and errant statements about it. It is up to to prove your version of the poem is right.
It is up to you to find and post the poem. Otherwise it will be proven fact that you can't prove what you said about it.

oh I just love how you pull the old switcharoo.
I never claimed it didn't exist. I said it wasn't mysognistic which you said it was. You also claimed it promotes violence against women.

You mentioned the poem and errant statements about it. It is up to to prove your version of the poem is right.
It is up to you to find and post the poem. Otherwise it will be proven fact that you can't prove what you said about it.

I don't have the poem and you know it. You have it and if I'm wrong why the reluctance to post it. Getting caught lying sucks, 'ey, Whit. That's like a dozen times this thread.

Yes, because that's what I said. Or perhaps I wouldn't claim it was a God thing and admit it's a man thing. There's a big difference. I believe in the very part of the Bible you quoted Jesus said if he REALLY wanted to prevent a problem he could call up an army at a moment's notice. God can stop a war if he likes or allow it to occur if he likes. However, he doesn't micromanage us like that. If we war, WE war. If we have peace, WE have peace. God would have us have peace rather than invading sovereign countries.

Amazingly, you claim God told you the reigh of Chavez is over, but you said what you think we should do in the event God doesn't do it. Why the contingency plans, prophet? Oh, that's right. Because God didn't tell you anything and you have no idea what will happen.
You are well known for putting words in people's mouths and slandering them.

I don't have the poem and you know it. You have it and if I'm wrong why the reluctance to post it. Getting caught lying sucks, 'ey, Whit. That's like a dozen times this thread.
Like I said, I am not going to prove your point for you. There is a thing called the archives. I'm not giving you a free ride. I don't believe in socialist welfare crap.

It's very simple and I'll tell you how to do it in steps so you can comprehend:

1. Go to the search function.
2. At the bottom of the search page is link that says Archives.
3. Click the link.
4. link takes you to archives.
5. Pick the General Forum Archives
6. look through each page, starting with the last, to see if you see the thread.
7. Click thread.
8. Find post with poem
9. Copy post with poem
10. Return to General.
11. Return to thread
12. click new reply
13. Paste poem
14. Hit submit.

Hmm. That's most interesting. You say you've been in the marine corps since 17.

I haven't been in since 17. I was in 8 years. I got out in 1999. It's been my consistent claim for several years.

But just a month ago you claimed to be a teacher.

I claimed to teach. People who pay attention know I do it in my free time for no money. My job is at an engineering firm.

I also think it interesting that you claim to have served in the marines yet you hate America. A country whose marines you supposedly served in.

I don't hate America. Here's a clue - everyone who disagrees with you does not hate America. I dislike some American policy and like others. I love the purposes and the design of the US Constitution, and I wouldn't trade my time in the military for the world.

You take the Bible, cut it up and then put together the pieces you like into a new Bible and you toss the rest in the trash as coming from stupid humans.

Uh-huh. Weren't you the one that just claimed live by the sword, die by the sword was a call to arms by the Savior. Who do you think you're fooling?

You take the US Constitution, cut it up, twist it and fold to make it say what you want.

Cut it up. I support it wholly. Especially the seperation of Church and State. It protects both.

You take other people's writings and twist them to say what you want them to say.

Ha. Amusing. Like claiming that I'm trying to set up a theocracy when I'm actually advocating the seperation of Church and State. This is the funniest post I've ever read.

I must admit, people like you make me puke. If you had your way, there would be no constitution and no America. And anyone who expresses religious faith would be locked up in prison for "being prideful".
You mean people who stand up for what they believe, believe in equal rights for all Americans and were willing to fight for them by serving in the military honorably and successfully for eight years. I turned down a scholarship to enter the military. Is nothing beneath you? The only one of us threatening to force their beliefs on others with law is you. I dare you, DARE YOU to quote me ever suggesting that people should be jailed for ANY religious belief provided it does not injure others. Go on quote me, or quit lying.

Like I said, I am not going to prove your point for you. There is a thing called the archives. I'm not giving you a free ride. I don't believe in socialist welfare crap.

It's very simple and I'll tell you how to do it in steps so you can comprehend:

1. Go to the search function.
2. At the bottom of the search page is link that says Archives.
3. Click the link.
4. link takes you to archives.
5. Pick the General Forum Archives
6. look through each page, starting with the last, to see if you see the thread.
7. Click thread.
8. Find post with poem
9. Copy post with poem
10. Return to General.
11. Return to thread
12. click new reply
13. Paste poem
14. Hit submit.

I don't believe the thread is there. I believe that thread was deleted by the mods for being spam and a flamefest. Interesting that the information to 'prove me wrong' is so readily available to you, but you won't use it. Admit it, I caught you in another lie.

You are well known for putting words in people's mouths and slandering them.

Am I? Please, prove it or quit lying. You make a lot of accusations with no evidence. I've caught you blatantly lying as have numerous others.

You called me anti-American. Quote me or quit lying.

You claimed I want to establish a theocracy. Quote me or quit lying.

I don't believe the thread is there. I believe that thread was deleted by the mods for being spam and a flamefest. Interesting that the information to 'prove me wrong' is so readily available to you, but you won't use it. Admit it, I caught you in another lie.
LMAO.

Oh now its not that "it's not there".
Its that "I don't believe its there so I am not going to look."

Oh yes and before you claim you never said I wrote mysognistic poems promoting violence against women let us revisit your past posts:

Post 127
That's why you won't find me writing violent, mysogynist poems

Post 122
Or write violent and profane poems about women

In both cases you made the false claim that I wrote mysogynist poems promoting violence toward women. Now you can't prove so you are trying to shift the burden of proof.

Am I? Please, prove it or quit lying. You make a lot of accusations with no evidence. I've caught you blatantly lying as have numerous others.

You called me anti-American. Quote me or quit lying.

You claimed I want to establish a theocracy. Quote me or quit lying.
you've sided repeatedly with the anti americans in these forums.

I never said you wanted to establish a theocracy. You want to punish people for their beliefs. I am wholly against that. That's the difference between you and I.

Rooster vs. Owl.

:(

Can we call a six hour cease fire here?

Can we call a six hour cease fire here?
You know that story about the Christmas cease-fire?
That was one of the coolest things in history.

You know that story about the Christmas cease-fire?
That was one of the coolest things in history.
Yes it was. poor Germans they would have been better off with Bismarck

Good night, Straughn have fun holding these two at bay.

Jocabia & Whittier--- Don't draw blood 'till I'm awake enough to make a conclusive opinion

You know that story about the Christmas cease-fire?
That was one of the coolest things in history.

Brings a tear to me eye.

*sniff*

Group hug! :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Yes it was. poor Germans they would have been better off with Bismarck

Good night, Straughn have fun holding these two at bay.Good night to you too. *bows*

As for the Rooster and the Owl - I'm not even MODERATELY capable of that. There's a specific contention or two that truly is the heart of the problem. And i'm a "god" NOT a "mod" ;)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11047146&postcount=36

Brings a tear to me eye.

*sniff*

Group hug! :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:
*has a rare show of true feelings - no small accomplishment for a golem*
Actually, i swelled a bit in the lachyrmosaic sense myself. As i did when i learned how many people truly shared sorrow on 9/11 with the U.S.
In case anyone wonders - that directly correlates to my vitriol for the current "president". :mad:

LMAO.

Oh now its not that "it's not there".
Its that "I don't believe its there so I am not going to look."

Oh yes and before you claim you never said I wrote mysognistic poems promoting violence against women let us revisit your past posts:

Post 127


Post 122


In both cases you made the false claim that I wrote mysogynist poems promoting violence toward women. Now you can't prove so you are trying to shift the burden of proof.

No, I said what you quoted (neither of which mentions 'violence against women'). And I know the thread I saw it in was deleted by the mods. However, it could have been in other threads, which is why I qualified my statement. Nice job changing the subject. If I'm slandering you, you can absolutely set the record straight. Why so reluctant to do so, my friend? Could it be that it would prove me right or are you just buying time while you rewrite the poem?

EDIT: My bad. The thread I remember was deleted, but there was the other one that I forgot was there. I did eventually find the poem. I don't know what your definition of violence and mysogyny is, but let's have a look at the poem -

I wrote this really cool poem. Its called Shut The Fuck Up.

Shut The Fuck Up

Shut The Fuck Up
Time To Show Proper Respect
God's Gift To Women is in the house
Back the fuck up 12 feet out of my personal space
I'm completely invulnerable
With a charm
No woman can resist
Shut The Fuck Up
You don't know me
But I'm about to school you.

Whether lovin' or fighten,
It's always to my benefit
You better back the fuck up
This is a battle anthem
Fuck the west coast
Like a broken record
they repeat the same idiotic shit
My defense is dominated by offense
that's an offense
Don't talk to me about tact
Shut The Fuck Up
Whiny Calis better get their reinforcements
Cause they about to get their asses whooped
Unlike Survivor
when people cross me
there are no survivors
Double talkers walk away with fat lips
I'm about to put you in the obituary
Shut The Fuck Up
Like X Ray Vision
The Greatness of Me
Sees through your fake cliches
You took your best shot
And I'm still talking shit to your face



Shut The Fuck Up
Show proper respect
God's Gift To Women is in the House
You better back the fuck up
12 feet out of my personal space
I'm completely invulnerable
With a charm
No woman can resist
Shut the fuck up
You don't know me
But I'm about to school you
Shut The Fuck Up

The New world order about to be taken over
by Roberts World Order
Lame Californians dominated by stereotypical images
Greatest fraud was the California census
I know not fear
Without morals
Are the Southern Cal guttersluts
All they do
is lie, steal and kill
East Coasters all talk
like a bunch of old people
All their rhetoric
they stole from the dinosaurs
Fiance stealers are the worst scum
on the earth
Check it out
I'm here to show them
their proper place
Shut The Fuck Up
Show Proper Respect
I kill 2 birds with one stone
Prepare for warfare
Check yourself
Talking about me
Makes you a dead man walking
I beat you, bury you,
Then I take your woman
Just for spite
Shut The Fuck Up
Show proper respect
God's Gift To Women Is In The House
The crowd ain't got no comebacks



Shut The Fuck Up
Time to show proper respect
God's Gift To Women is in the house
Back the fuck up 12 feet out of my personal space
I'm completely invulnerable
With a charm
No woman can resist
Shut The Fuck Up
You don't know me
But I'm about to school you.

You don't know me
I'm about to make you
Shut the fuck up

You got a problem
My two fists are problem solvers
Shut The Fuck Up
Republicans can kiss my ass
Democrats can suck my dick
Shut The Fuck Up
Fuck the Police
People are getting creamed
while police are eating
Krispy Kream
Every fight I've been in
I've won
You don't know
You'll be
another statistic
Shut The Fuck Up
Bitches beware
I got balls of brass
Girls who play mind games
end up with
broken minds
in the asylum
Shut The Fuck Up
Show Proper Respect
God's Gift To Women
Is In Tha House
I'm invulnerable
with a charm
no woman can resist
You don't know me
But I Just Pawned You

Let's see, declaring yourself God's Gift to women and talking about whooping asses, yep, how dare I call that mysogynistic and violent. "I'm about to put you in the obituary" Yep, not violent.
"No woman can resist" Yep, not mysgonistic.

That, Mr. Canales, is what getting PWNed looks like. And in case anyone missed it, here was what I said that you wanted to make sure wasn't forgotten.

That's why you won't find me writing violent, mysogynist poems

Ha. You keep setting yourself up, Whit, and I'll keep knocking you down. Call me a liar again, friend.

So do I have to write a poem like this so I can become a 'true Christian'?

you've sided repeatedly with the anti americans in these forums.

I never said you wanted to establish a theocracy. You want to punish people for their beliefs. I am wholly against that. That's the difference between you and I.

I've sided with the anti-Americans, you mean protected the beliefs of those I don't agree with, but, but, that would counter your second point.

My faith, unlike yours, is not based on banning other people's religions or their expression of those religions.

Quote me suggesting the ban on religion. Quote me banning the expression of a religion.

People throughout Latin America are now rejecting the evil ways of the vile Chavez dictatorship.

Evil ways ? Dictatorship ? Those are unbacked claims. And far from the true.

People rejecting him ? Wait wait... polls show him at 65% on his own country. People in Bolivia elected Evo Morales, an ally of Chavez. Polls show that above 55% of people in Ecuador would like a Chavez-like president. Sandinistas are given winners for the next elections in Nicaragua. And so on.

His friend and close ally in Peru is losing the Peruvian election because of his ties to Chavez and fears he will destroy the economy by trying to nationalize industry:

The elections in Peru are not done yet, and a lot of uncertainity is still on its outcome. While Chavez-supported candidate may very likely lose by a tiny margin, he was the first candidate on the first round, and is facing the union of all traditional parties, and all media. Not an easy situation. Chavez' support to him has nothing to do with his success or failure, btw.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12250585/

That's an unbiased source, for sure.

In Colombia, where Chavez condemned the duly elected government, for the first in a hundred years an incumbent won reelection by a landslide whereby defeating another Chavez ally.

In Colombia, the law is done by the extreme-right militias of the drug barons, opponents are shot dead in the street. Hardly a sane climate for an election.

Uribe was credited with an 81% reduction in violence. That makes Venezuela and its ally Brazil the two most violent and unsafe nations in the whole western hemisphere.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12976176/

For a more sane source, Amnesty International:

The Colombian government of President Alvaro Uribe has recently argued that there are less killings and that it is taking action against paramilitary forces. Amnesty International has documented that there has been no substantive improvement in the human rights situation, that human rights conditions have worsened in several conflict zone

But the election in Colombia proves one thing that has been proven over and over but that the libs and socialists are just to ignorant to fathom: when violent crime is sky high, people don't give dam about social welfare. They want someone who brings law and order.

The only way to have law and order, on the long term, is to cure the society from a more deep, reckless and inhuman violence: misery. Be it geographically or historically, crime rates nearly always follow poverty rates.

Uribe brought crime down 81% since Colombia's election.

That's just plain bullshit.

Colombia also had a much higher turn than Venezuela did in its last referendum to keep Chavez who was the only candidate on the ballot. Uribe had 3 opponents, both of whome he smashed. The people rewarded his anticrime and antiviolence programs by almost overwhelmingly voting to keep him in office.

Sur, the fact that people who campaigned against him were murdered has nothing to do with his victory. Millions of dollars flowing from the CIA neither.

For Chavez, current polls show him with a 65% victory against any opposition candidate, be it a united one or several ones. And that, despite that 7 of the 8 national TV channels are strongly, violently against Chavez. While most media did support Uribe...

While Venezuela spirals into decay and gangster criminal violence, Uribe is making Colombia the safest nation in South America. The economy is doing better than Venezuela's too.

Hum, let's see... according to the CIA Factbook (hardly a pro-Chavez or anti-Uribe source), "GDP - real growth rate" for Colombia was 4.3%, it was 9.1% for Venezuela. And while poverty lowered from about 50% to about 35% in Venezuela, in Colombia, it's still around 55%.

Maybe if the leftist agreed to a peace pack in which they laid down their arms too, they would be allowed to become a political party in Colombia. That's the difference. The rightists are laying down their arms and turning to peace. The left is not. The left wants to continue to kill people as they always have.

The FARC (left wing guerilla) accepted to discuss of a political issue. Uribe refused. As for the right-wing militia, they DON'T gave up their arms, and many of them were in fact integrated into the army... since they are the ones behind Uribe, anyway.

Also remember that the civil war in Colombia started when... the left-wing candidate, Jorge Eliécer Gaitán, who was expected to win, was murdered a few weeks before elections, in the late 1940s.

Chavez is a joke. And he keeps hooking the big-mouthed Liberal bass with garbage like "giving heating oil to the AMerican poor." Meanwhile, he runs Venezuela into the ground, and he is just one more reason the left in America is all wrong for America.

Poverty was lowered by more than 1/3 since Chavez is in power. Unemployment was lowered. Growth rate for 2005 is above 10%, and growth rate for 2006 is expected to be even higher. Illiterracy was lowered by more than 1 million, since Chavez took power. Inflation was reduced. And so on. That's "running Venezuela into the ground" ?

No, I said what you quoted (neither of which mentions 'violence against women'). And I know the thread I saw it in was deleted by the mods. However, it could have been in other threads, which is why I qualified my statement. Nice job changing the subject. If I'm slandering you, you can absolutely set the record straight. Why so reluctant to do so, my friend? Could it be that it would prove me right or are you just buying time while you rewrite the poem?

EDIT: My bad. The thread I remember was deleted, but there was the other one that I forgot was there. I did eventually find the poem. I don't know what your definition of violence and mysogyny is, but let's have a look at the poem -



Let's see, declaring yourself God's Gift to women and talking about whooping asses, yep, how dare I call that mysogynistic and violent. "I'm about to put you in the obituary" Yep, not violent.
"No woman can resist" Yep, not mysgonistic.

That, Mr. Canales, is what getting PWNed looks like. And in case anyone missed it, here was what I said that you wanted to make sure wasn't forgotten.



Ha. You keep setting yourself up, Whit, and I'll keep knocking you down. Call me a liar again, friend.

So do I have to write a poem like this so I can become a 'true Christian'?
Holy sh*t!

MEGA-PWN !!!!!
:eek:
:eek:

What interesting is how he sends his nation's resources abroad, giving free oil to homeless people who have no place to use it, while he ignores the high crime rate in his own nation. America and Europe may have some poor families that can barely afford the heating oil they need, but neither of those places have a crime rate as high as Venezuela's is.
And his economic success is dependent solely on his oil, which he has decided to give away for free and in trying to turn the rest of South America into forced markets for his failed policies.

You probably ignore the important role played by Chavez, at the head of OPEC, to raise oil prices which were very very low in 1998. Chavez' giving oil for cheap to poor is his own way to avoid making his "expensive oil" policies (which are good for his own people) to hurt too much the poors of other countries, which is a really nice behaviour of him.

But the people of Colombia, Peru, Mexico and other countries have opened their eyes and see that the wicked witch does indeed come offering poisoned fruit.

Mexico ? Bush' puppet, Vincente Fox, is about to lose the elections. And the popularity of the Zapatistas insurgent is very high, inside Mexico. So high that even Fox is forced to tolerate them.

I wrote this really cool poem. Its called Shut The Fuck Up.

Shut The Fuck Up

Shut The Fuck Up
Time To Show Proper Respect
God's Gift To Women is in the house
Back the fuck up 12 feet out of my personal space
I'm completely invulnerable
With a charm
No woman can resist
Shut The Fuck Up
You don't know me
But I'm about to school you.

Whether lovin' or fighten,
It's always to my benefit
You better back the fuck up
This is a battle anthem
Fuck the west coast
Like a broken record
they repeat the same idiotic shit
My defense is dominated by offense
that's an offense
Don't talk to me about tact
Shut The Fuck Up
Whiny Calis better get their reinforcements
Cause they about to get their asses whooped
Unlike Survivor
when people cross me
there are no survivors
Double talkers walk away with fat lips
I'm about to put you in the obituary
Shut The Fuck Up
Like X Ray Vision
The Greatness of Me
Sees through your fake cliches
You took your best shot
And I'm still talking shit to your face



Shut The Fuck Up
Show proper respect
God's Gift To Women is in the House
You better back the fuck up
12 feet out of my personal space
I'm completely invulnerable
With a charm
No woman can resist
Shut the fuck up
You don't know me
But I'm about to school you
Shut The Fuck Up

The New world order about to be taken over
by Roberts World Order
Lame Californians dominated by stereotypical images
Greatest fraud was the California census
I know not fear
Without morals
Are the Southern Cal guttersluts
All they do
is lie, steal and kill
East Coasters all talk
like a bunch of old people
All their rhetoric
they stole from the dinosaurs
Fiance stealers are the worst scum
on the earth
Check it out
I'm here to show them
their proper place
Shut The Fuck Up
Show Proper Respect
I kill 2 birds with one stone
Prepare for warfare
Check yourself
Talking about me
Makes you a dead man walking
I beat you, bury you,
Then I take your woman
Just for spite
Shut The Fuck Up
Show proper respect
God's Gift To Women Is In The House
The crowd ain't got no comebacks



Shut The Fuck Up
Time to show proper respect
God's Gift To Women is in the house
Back the fuck up 12 feet out of my personal space
I'm completely invulnerable
With a charm
No woman can resist
Shut The Fuck Up
You don't know me
But I'm about to school you.

You don't know me
I'm about to make you
Shut the fuck up

You got a problem
My two fists are problem solvers
Shut The Fuck Up
Republicans can kiss my ass
Democrats can suck my dick
Shut The Fuck Up
Fuck the Police
People are getting creamed
while police are eating
Krispy Kream
Every fight I've been in
I've won
You don't know
You'll be
another statistic
Shut The Fuck Up
Bitches beware
I got balls of brass
Girls who play mind games
end up with
broken minds
in the asylum
Shut The Fuck Up
Show Proper Respect
God's Gift To Women
Is In Tha House
I'm invulnerable
with a charm
no woman can resist
You don't know me
But I Just Pawned You

Scary. I spot clang association there in bold. Maybe I'm too sensitive but this looks like schizoid tendencies.

People throughout Latin America are now rejecting the evil ways of the vile Chavez dictatorship.

His friend and close ally in Peru is losing the Peruvian election because of his ties to Chavez and fears he will destroy the economy by trying to nationalize industry:



Strange, because it's either the left wing candidate or the centre-left candidate that's going to win. Either Whittier doesn't know what he's talking about or God isn't doing what he said he was going to do (or perhaps both).

Several things bother me about Chavez. First off, he claims to be a champion of the people, and all that. Representative, blah blah. But let's look at the facts, shall we?

Not really. He claims to be only a catalyzer of a much deeper movement (which started by the Caracazo of 1989, which was drowned in blood by the president of that time), and I agree with him on that.

Chavez has been consolidating his power since he took office. He's made it possible to push major legislation through Venezuela's senate with a simple, rather than 2/3 majority. He's filled the military with 'Chavistas' that support his regime, and has created another reservist military that is increasing in size every year.

What Chavez has been consolidation is the Bolivarian processus. Venezuela situation when Chavez came to power was disastrous, with more than 50% of the population below the poverty line. People were urging for changes. So the Constitutional Assembly (elected directly by the people), chose to make passing laws either, in order to handle the urgency of the situation. That doesn't surprise me.

If you look at recent local partial elections in Venezuela, it shows that a moderate Chavista was defeated by a more radical Chavista, confirming what you could already see on community media: the people want a deeper, quicker "Bolivarian Revolution" than what Chavez actually does.

For filling the military with 'Chavistas'... who wouldn't do it, after a (failed) coup attempt ?

He also is the head of the 'independant' organization that supervises elections,

That's not true.

and through that he publishes peoples' voting habits online, complete with names.

That's utterly false either. He has no way to know it. What is published is the list of signers of the petition for the recall referendum, but that's the idea of a petition: names on it are public. That's the same in every country, signing a petition is a public act.

He is also the head of Venezuela's oil company, which is the major source of income for the country. He can thus affect the income of the government, and hold that over subordinates' heads when they disagree.

PDVSA is a state-owned company. What you say is true in every country, and was true before Chavez was elected: the governement control state-owned companies...


-There is no senate. Rather, Chavez turned Venezuela's government from a bicameral into a unicameral one by dint of a constitution that he engineered and pushed thorugh the government.

The Constitution was written by a Constitutional Assembly, directly elected by the people, and then validated by a referendum. It's not Chavez himself who decided it.

What the Constitution also added is recall referendum, direct referendum, penal responsabilities of agents of the governement who break human rights, and so on.

You should read the new Constitution. You would see it's really, deeply democratic and respectful of human rights. More than every other Constitutions I ever read.

Pat Robertson was right. The CIA ought to take care of Chavez.

And turn Venezuela into a new Colombia, ravaged by 60 years of civil war ? Remember how the people reacted, when Chavez was made prisoner by the golpist officers on April, 11. They stormed Caracas by millions, FORCING the coup leaders to flee. If you ever kill Chavez, everything could happen. The huge majority of Venezulian, who support Chavez, won't accept it. And they could then become violent, from anger and sadness. Do no play with fire !

America and Europe may have some poor families that can barely afford the heating oil they need, but neither of those places have a crime rate as high as Venezuela's is.
Huge, fucking lie. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_tot_cri_percap

There are some pretty severe human rights violations occuring under his regime, so I take issue with his leadership.

Most of those "human rights violations" are done by the opposition (like the shooting of April 11, 2002, or the killing of the judge who were in charge of the inquiry on the coup attempt). Some are done by some Chavez' supporters, but only in reaction to a much more violent opposition. Anyway, the human rights violations level in Venezuela is much lower than in most other countries, including South American countries, USA, many European ones, and Venezuela from before Chavez.

Chavez will not be able to maintain power if he continues on his present path because the economy can't sustain it; he has some good ideas but too many are tainted by the failed ideology of populism and that will eventually hurt Venezuela rather than help it.

Economy of Venezuela is going better and better, and Chavez is definitely following long-term goals: education, healthcare, ... have costs on the short term, but produce wealth on the long term.

No, I said what you quoted (neither of which mentions 'violence against women'). And I know the thread I saw it in was deleted by the mods. However, it could have been in other threads, which is why I qualified my statement. Nice job changing the subject. If I'm slandering you, you can absolutely set the record straight. Why so reluctant to do so, my friend? Could it be that it would prove me right or are you just buying time while you rewrite the poem?

EDIT: My bad. The thread I remember was deleted, but there was the other one that I forgot was there. I did eventually find the poem. I don't know what your definition of violence and mysogyny is, but let's have a look at the poem -



Let's see, declaring yourself God's Gift to women and talking about whooping asses, yep, how dare I call that mysogynistic and violent. "I'm about to put you in the obituary" Yep, not violent.
"No woman can resist" Yep, not mysgonistic.

That, Mr. Canales, is what getting PWNed looks like. And in case anyone missed it, here was what I said that you wanted to make sure wasn't forgotten.



Ha. You keep setting yourself up, Whit, and I'll keep knocking you down. Call me a liar again, friend.

So do I have to write a poem like this so I can become a 'true Christian'?
No it is not mysogynistic. But then your view of mysogynism is a warped as is your view of christianity.
Dude you are totally fucking warped. There is nothing at mysogynistic about calling one "God's Gift To Women". It reflects on a little pride but not mysoginism. You might look up the word in a dictionary fool.
"No woman can resist". That's a laugh. But a guy with a peanut for a brain and the inability to think would call that mysognistic.
Wow. That's what "Pawned" looks like to a retard like you who falsely claims to be a christian who was in the Marines who takes other people's comments and twists them to your own evil anti christian purposes?

You are the one who changed the subject not me.

I got news for you, the poem was only posted in one thread. Nice try at diverting attention from your foolery.

If people talk shit, I have the right to put them in their place. If that means whooping their asses I have the right to do that too. And if this was a rl forum instead of an internet forum, I'd put you in your place.

You are a fake. Not only that but you are indeed an anti american anti christian son of a bitch.

Bah, this thread has been taken over by evil liberal anti american scumbags. I will pray for their swift downfalls.

Damn, and here I was thinking that SPC Canales was just a radically right wing, pro Bush type. Here, I find out he's psychotic and has delusions of grandeur. You really should get some help, brother. However, I know you won't because you don't think there is anything wrong with you, which incedentally is what makes you a psychopath as opposed to a sociopath.

Bah, this thread has been taken over by evil liberal anti american scumbags.


You rang, m'lord?

Bah, this thread has been taken over by evil liberal anti american scumbags. I will pray for their swift downfalls.

You called, my cute little right-wing nutter?

By the way, what's wrong with being anti-American and anti-Christian?

Poverty was lowered by more than 1/3 since Chavez is in power. Unemployment was lowered. Growth rate for 2005 is above 10%, and growth rate for 2006 is expected to be even higher. Illiterracy was lowered by more than 1 million, since Chavez took power. Inflation was reduced. And so on. That's "running Venezuela into the ground" ?
according to who? Chavez?

Damn, and here I was thinking that SPC Canales was just a radically right wing, pro Bush type. Here, I find out he's psychotic and has delusions of grandeur. You really should get some help, brother. However, I know you won't because you don't think there is anything wrong with you, which incedentally is what makes you a psychopath as opposed to a sociopath.
typical anti american anti christian rhetoric that is usual from the people on this forum.
Listen if you don't like America get the F out.

You called, my cute little right-wing nutter?

By the way, what's wrong with being anti-American and anti-Christian?
everything. It is the source of all evil.

typical anti american anti christian rhetoric that is usual from the people on this forum.
Listen if you don't like America get the F out.

You know, one is not automatically wrong if one is not a flag-waving US patriot or not a Christian.

Please get this through your dementia.

everything. It is the source of all evil.

Okay.


You are indeed a pyschotic nutjob.

Most of those "human rights violations" are done by the opposition (like the shooting of April 11, 2002, or the killing of the judge who were in charge of the inquiry on the coup attempt). Some are done by some Chavez' supporters, but only in reaction to a much more violent opposition. Anyway, the human rights violations level in Venezuela is much lower than in most other countries, including South American countries, USA, many European ones, and Venezuela from before Chavez.



Economy of Venezuela is going better and better, and Chavez is definitely following long-term goals: education, healthcare, ... have costs on the short term, but produce wealth on the long term.
there are no human rights violations in the US except by the LAPD.
It is good to see that Ecuador has kicked out an California company. There may be hope for it yet. California=worst communist state in the world

You know, one is not automatically wrong if one is not a flag-waving US patriot or not a Christian.

Please get this through your dementia.
If you are not a true christian you are going to become nothing more than worm food. there will be no heaven for you

If you are not a true christian you are going to become nothing more than worm food. there will be no heaven for you

Are you by any chance Pat Robertson?

Whittier = Whittier- = Whittier-- Whittier---

and he hasn't changed either.

typical anti american anti christian rhetoric that is usual from the people on this forum.
Listen if you don't like America get the F out.

Hehe, when did I say that I didn't like America?

If you hate California so much, why did you run for Congress there?

Are you by any chance Pat Robertson?
nope but I do have a mandate from God.

People throughout Latin America are now rejecting the evil ways of the vile Chavez dictatorship.

His friend and close ally in Peru is losing the Peruvian election because of his ties to Chavez and fears he will destroy the economy by trying to nationalize industry:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12250585/

In Colombia, where Chavez condemned the duly elected government, for the first in a hundred years an incumbent won reelection by a landslide whereby defeating another Chavez ally. Uribe was credited with an 81% reduction in violence. That makes Venezuela and its ally Brazil the two most violent and unsafe nations in the whole western hemisphere.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12976176/
Yeah, so the leftists, who don't care about anything but giving away free welfare programs for lazy people who don't deserve it, are afraid Uribe doesn't spend enough on welfare. But the election in Colombia proves one thing that has been proven over and over but that the libs and socialists are just to ignorant to fathom: when violent crime is sky high, people don't give dam about social welfare. They want someone who brings law and order. Uribe brought crime down 81% since Colombia's election. Colombia also had a much higher turn than Venezuela did in its last referendum to keep Chavez who was the only candidate on the ballot. Uribe had 3 opponents, both of whome he smashed. The people rewarded his anticrime and antiviolence programs by almost overwhelmingly voting to keep him in office.
While Venezuela spirals into decay and gangster criminal violence, Uribe is making Colombia the safest nation in South America. The economy is doing better than Venezuela's too.
And I just love this part:
"Opponents accuse the president of focusing his war on Colombia’s left-wing rebels and their ties to drug-trafficking, while allowed the country’s murderous far-right paramilitaries to grow into a potent political force as they lay down arms in a government-brokered peace pact."
Maybe if the leftist agreed to a peace pack in which they laid down their arms too, they would be allowed to become a political party in Colombia. That's the difference. The rightists are laying down their arms and turning to peace. The left is not. The left wants to continue to kill people as they always have.

Praise God, who in his infinite wisdom, has decided to bring murderous era of Chavez revolutions to an end. And may he cast Chavez down from his pedestal upon which he has installed himself above all mankind, and his followers with him.
Amen


Law and Order, will always trump social welfare when you have high rates of crime and violence.
Under Chavez the Venezuela violent crime is the highests its ever been in Venezuela history. It won't be long before the people there get the courage to remove Chavez and replace him with someone who will make their country a safe place to live once again.
Fuck off, Whittier. You've got some kind of stupid prejudice, and a vast amount of drugs, by the look of it.

If there was a God, he wouldn't talk to hatemongers. He would talk to the good people in life. You are not one of them at all, in any way, shape or form.

nope but I do have a mandate from God.

I'm sorry. What?

I'm sorry. What?
I think he reckons he's a prophet or something. If you called yourself the antichrist and went on about things, you'd be in a home, but being a "prophet" means that you get away with it, it seems.

nope but I do have a mandate from God.

Serious question: Have you ever seen a psychiatrist? It might do well to book an appointment with one to talk about this 'Mandate'.

I think he reckons he's a prophet or something. If you called yourself the antichrist and went on about things, you'd be in a home, but being a "prophet" means that you get away with it, it seems.

Well, I doubt he goes around telling people he knows that he's a prophet. I'm willing to bet that that particular honor is reserved for the people on the Internet. To know of the glory of Robert Canales.

Hehe, when did I say that I didn't like America?

If you hate California so much, why did you run for Congress there?
you have declared America to be the evil empire, you do think that the Americans who died on 911 deserved to die, you support Al Qaeda.

I mean you hate Bush so much that you want to see the deaths of innocent Americans.

Cause I thought I could change things. Now I know that is impossible. Californians are the most extremist people on the planet. There is greater possibility of a diplomatic solution to the Iran/US nuke standoff or of Chavez actually restoring true democracy than there is of Californians electing people who are not extremists.
In Cali you only when elections if you are fascist or a communist. Moderates don't win shit there. And California has the nation's most extremist laws.
And one of the worst education systems in America.
In most of California the environment is legally more important than the life a human being.
Not to mention that parents there raise their daughters to be sluts and whores.
cali has the nation's highest crime rate.
Corruption there is more likely to be swept under the rug than anywhere else, provided you are a member of the right party.
Californians promote immorality.
Californians are always burning and pissing on the American flag. Hell they've even used it for toilet paper.
the law in california says you don't have to speak english but you do have to speak spanish if you want to work in that state.
the minorities there only get into college on the basis of their race or skin color. Not because they earned it.
the list goes on. None of these things can be changed. the best that can happen is that earthquake hits San Andreas whereby causing California to collapse into the sea. Much as God struck down Sodom and Gommorrah for their evil ways.

according to who? Chavez?

The CIA factbook among others ;)

Are you trying to say you're a fucking moderate? Laugh riot.

Whittier's cracked.

Fuck off, Whittier. You've got some kind of stupid prejudice, and a vast amount of drugs, by the look of it.

If there was a God, he wouldn't talk to hatemongers. He would talk to the good people in life. You are not one of them at all, in any way, shape or form.
Who are you to decide who God talks to?

How about you kiss my american ass. Pot smoking hippie liberal commie.

How about you kiss my american ass. Pot smoking hippie liberal commie.

That might be seen as an act of unnatural fornication! GOD WOULD SMITE THEE!

I think he reckons he's a prophet or something. If you called yourself the antichrist and went on about things, you'd be in a home, but being a "prophet" means that you get away with it, it seems.
What you need is to open your puny mind. but then again you are one of those people who hates America because America grants religious freedom which includes the right to espouse one's beliefs.

then again you've already admitted that you are anti-christ

you have declared America to be the evil empire, you do think that the Americans who died on 911 deserved to die, you support Al Qaeda.

I mean you hate Bush so much that you want to see the deaths of innocent Americans.

The most saddening thing is I think you actually believe that.


Although I am beginning to think that this may be a very well done instance of trolling.

Who are you to decide who God talks to?

How about you kiss my american ass. Pot smoking hippie liberal commie.

Look mate, I hate to break it to you, but it does not make one the Devil if one is not A) An American B) An America Lover and C) Anything other than a Capitalist.

What you need is to open your puny mind. but then again you are one of those people who hates America because America grants religious freedom which includes the right to espouse one's beliefs.

then again you've already admitted that you are anti-christ

You hate America.

California is a part of America, like it or not.

You want Californians to die.

Al-Quaeda wants Californians to die.

TERRORIST!

The most saddening thing is I think you actually believe that.


Although I am beginning to think that this may be a very well done instance of trolling.

I've seen Whittier enough to think that this isn't trolling. Well, at least not primarily. I think he believes this stuff.

The worrying thing is, if he tells the truth, he is running for Congress...

Well, I doubt he goes around telling people he knows that he's a prophet. I'm willing to bet that that particular honor is reserved for the people on the Internet. To know of the glory of Robert Canales.
Actually I do. Except that unlike you and the majority of NS Generalites, they are not anti american, they are not anti christian, they are not anti virgin.
They accept that I have the ability of prophecy because their minds are open, much unlike yours.

Actually I do. Except that unlike you and the majority of NS Generalites, they are not anti american, they are not anti christian, they are not anti virgin.
They accept that I have the ability of prophecy because their minds are open, much unlike yours.

Nobody accepts that you are a prophet, it's just that generally it is considered bad form to mock the mentally infirm.

You say God has talked to you Whittier? Wierd, cos God talked to me too, and he said you were wrong. That's interesting.

Look mate, I hate to break it to you, but it does not make one the Devil if one is not A) An American B) An America Lover and C) Anything other than a Capitalist.

The really funny thing is that I'm an American and an Iraq War vet.

Although this thread is probably the most fascinating thing I've seen in a while.

There Whittier goes... again.

That being said, Skinny, you're just as blameworthy. Because someone disagrees with you gives you no right to flame in return. And before you ask, the sanity comments crossed the line into "official problem" territory.

That goes for quite a few of you--you know who you are. Really, if all you've got to add to anything is "lol he's crazy" you're not hardly contributing anything to a debate, now are you?