NationStates Jolt Archive

This is an interesting question, if you ask me, because there are two different sides to it. You could argue that copying a CD would be unfaithful to your friend and that you may have simply bought the present for your own use. Also, through the process of copying the CD, which is illegal in most circumstances, you may scratch the present or damage it in some way.
On the other hand, copying a CD would save you the extra cash that you would have had to fork out to buy the exact same disc. And because your friend is...well, a friend wouldn't he want you to save your money.

Ask yourself if you would want to recieve a "present" that's been opened and used.

Why not ask if you can copy it after you give it to them?

Not at all. If I ever buy a CD for a friend, I copy it for myself every time. It doesn't cause them to receive an less of a good gift. They're still getting the album case, art, etc.

Why not ask if you can copy it after you give it to them?
My thoughts exactly. If the receiver really is your friend he'll be more than happy to give you a copy (which is, according to German law, still legal if you don't make more copies than 7, given out to friends or family, and you don't take money for it).

Why not ask if you can copy it after you give it to them?

Right, so 'Here's you present!'
'Oh, thank you!'
'Yeah, can I have it back now...'

I'm not sure if that would go down too well.

Not at all. If I ever buy a CD for a friend, I copy it for myself every time. It doesn't cause them to receive an less of a good gift. They're still getting the album case, art, etc.
Ah - but you break the seal in order to do that. Then you can't take it back. Just imagine he already has that very CD or he doesn't like it and wants to exchange it...

Anyway, you could just go onto LimeWire and download it. Oops! :eek: Did I just say that. Oh, I am a naughty boy!

Right, so 'Here's you present!'
'Oh, thank you!'
'Yeah, can I have it back now...'

I'm not sure if that would go down too well.
*annoying buzzer sound*

Wrong! He makes the copy for you!

This is an interesting question, if you ask me, because there are two different sides to it. You could argue that copying a CD would be unfaithful to your friend and that you may have simply bought the present for your own use. Also, through the process of copying the CD, which is illegal in most circumstances, you may scratch the present or damage it in some way.
On the other hand, copying a CD would save you the extra cash that you would have had to fork out to buy the exact same disc. And because your friend is...well, a friend wouldn't he want you to save your money.

Immoral? Depends on your morals. Is it immoral to steal the work of the artists who created the CD?

Illegal? Absolutely.

1) Present CD as Present.

2) Listen to CD with presentee

3) "Hey, that WAS a good CD, mind if I copy that sucker?"

I'd do it...I've done it before...but usually I'll download it, listen to it, then decide if it's worth using a blank cd to copy it. If it is, I can copy it to cd without the original. If not, I've not lost anything.

Assuming there is a real situation behind this, and you aren't able to download said cd, I'd say give it to your friend without copying it then ask to borrow it after a couple of weeks.

Right, so 'Here's you present!'
'Oh, thank you!'
'Yeah, can I have it back now...'

I'm not sure if that would go down too well.

*Shrugs*. Copying takes, at most, ten minutes. What you're gaining here is their permission to break the seal and use their gift.

Ah - but you break the seal in order to do that. Then you can't take it back. Just imagine he already has that very CD or he doesn't like it and wants to exchange it...
Assuming there is a seal of course. Where I buy cd's there aren't any seals on them.

*annoying buzzer sound*

Wrong! He makes the copy for you!

Great! So you get your friend to do your dirty work for you?

This is an interesting question, if you ask me, because there are two different sides to it. You could argue that copying a CD would be unfaithful to your friend and that you may have simply bought the present for your own use. Also, through the process of copying the CD, which is illegal in most circumstances, you may scratch the present or damage it in some way.
On the other hand, copying a CD would save you the extra cash that you would have had to fork out to buy the exact same disc. And because your friend is...well, a friend wouldn't he want you to save your money.

Well, if it is illegal, doesn't that make it immoral? :confused: Also, you would have to open it and your friend might not appreciate getting a "used" present. I know I wouldn't.

*Shrugs*. Copying takes, at most, ten minutes. What you're gaining here is their permission to break the seal and use their gift.

I know, but that way it would appear that you bought the CD for your own personal use instead of for your friend.

I know, but that way it would appear that you bought the CD for your own personal use instead of for your friend.
Then why not explain your reasoning to them?

"Hey, I bought you this CD because I thought you'd like it. I'd like it too, but I don't really have the money to buy my own copy right now. Would you mind if I copied it?"

If they say no, at least you've given them the chance to.

Well, if it is illegal, doesn't that make it immoral? :confused: Also, you would have to open it and your friend might not appreciate getting a "used" present. I know I wouldn't.

Law is not morality in my eyes. Did you know it is illegal to eat mince pies on Christmas day? Did you know it is illegal to eat a swan? Did you know it is illegal to let a friend do so much as watch a DVD with you without forcing them to pay the company that made it?

Then why not explain your reasoning to them?

"Hey, I bought you this CD because I thought you'd like it. I'd like it too, but I don't really have the money to buy my own copy right now. Would you mind if I copied it?"

If they say no, at least you've given them the chance to.

Sure that adds more morality to copying it on the friend's front but what about the artist that made it? Doesn't he deserve the extra cash.

Ah - but you break the seal in order to do that. Then you can't take it back. Just imagine he already has that very CD or he doesn't like it and wants to exchange it...
Where I live most CDs don't come wrapped in cellophane.

I'd do it...I've done it before...but usually I'll download it, listen to it, then decide if it's worth using a blank cd to copy it. If it is, I can copy it to cd without the original. If not, I've not lost anything.

Assuming there is a real situation behind this, and you aren't able to download said cd, I'd say give it to your friend without copying it then ask to borrow it after a couple of weeks.
I would never ever download when I could copy from a CD. Downloading is risky.

Just ask to borrow it later and do it then.:p

Of course it bloody well is.

Do it anyway.

I would never ever download when I could copy from a CD. Downloading is risky.
Crossing the road is risky, yet I do it (almost) every day.

Me and most of my mates have the understanding that as soon as the first listen has been had, it shall be copied and distributed forthwith. Although, if we like it sometimes we go and buy our own copy *shrug*

it is not "immoral" to give your friend a used cd. its "immoral" to suggest that its a new virginal CD. you need to consider whether or not your friend would be a bit insulted that you couldnt be bothered to give something that is completely unused. some people will, some people wont

i try not to buy any cd that cant be copied. i make a copy or 2 for safekeeping and "store" one at my sisters house. i very much hate to rebuy a cd.

Crossing the road is risky, yet I do it (almost) every day.
If there was a safer alternative to crossing the road that yeilded the same result, I would use it.

Great! So you get your friend to do your dirty work for you?
Isn't that what good friends are for?!? No, honestly: If he likes your present he ought to be more than happy to oblige.

So, how is this not a crime again?

So, how is this not a crime again?
Well, that all depends which country you are referring to.

well I guess the US. There is not anti pirating laws in other countries?

Illegal? Absolutely.

That depends not only on the country your are located in, but also the particular copyright (or anti-copyright) notice attached to the CD - for example a great many CDs produced and marketted by anarchist bands encourage reproduction and duplication of the music provided that it is not carried out for financial gain.

It's not immoral. It's unethical and, depending on the artist and what label they belong to, if any, detrimental to the artist's ability to make a living as an artist. I'll never understand the ethos that allows people to claim they "love" an artist and then fuck them out of their due.

Save your pennies and buy the second copy.

Here in Canada it's perfectly legal to download music for your own personal use, you just can't share it. I assume it's the same for CD's.

I don't download songs by the artists i love, i buy their CD's. I download songs by the artists i like a few songs by, but not enough to by their CD's. They wouldn't be getting my money anyway, whether i downloaded their songs or not.

If i liked a CD enough to want every song on it, i would buy it, and i would certainly never copy a CD i bought as a gift. I don't think it's immoral, but i think it's tacky.

It's not immoral. It's unethical and...

What is the difference between 'immoral' and 'unethical'?

What is the difference between 'immoral' and 'unethical'?
Immoral is more general -- kind of the "good" and "evil" thing.

Unethical is usually used in a more specific setting with regard to a profession or situation. Something that's unethical is less likely to be illegal than something immoral. Okay, so, not much difference. My bad.

Right.

What I meant to say was that I don't think copying a CD is evil. Rather, it's a violation of the ethical principal of paying artists for their creation. And yes, sometimes that means paying a publisher, distributor, label, etc. Well, you do the same thing with whatever you buy. The cost of all the middlemen is factored into everything that requires transport, handling, packaging, preparation, etc.

Your call on on how your friend would take it, but it could be seen as you buying that for yourself and then passing the CD along once it's on your PC. As for the general issue of copyright violations: I guess you've got to ask yourself if you'd buy it if copying/downloading wasn't available. If the answers no then you're on safe moral ground, if it's yes then it's a judgement call.

Most of the money would go to the money grabbing record company anyway so maybe download and go see them live.

Most of the money would go to the money grabbing record company anyway so maybe download and go see them live.

Not a very good salve to a troubled conscience there: the vast majority of bands lose money when they play live, but stimulate their recorded music sales by so doing (which of course go through the record company).

I guess the thing I see is a CD in the states is about 10-15 bucks. You can go to any forum and find 90% have no problem stealing it.

Is it less of a crime because its only 10 bucks? If I took 10 bucks out of anyones wallet, would you not feel violated? How about if I did that a few times a month?

Stealing is stealing. Bottom line. Obviously this does not apply to bands that wish their stuff to be distributed but we, at least in the US, do know what is legal to copy and what is not.

Most of the money would go to the money grabbing record company anyway so maybe download and go see them live.

So you now have some right to tell the record companies how much money they are allowed to make? They are a business, they are there to make money. You either buy it and they make money, or you steal it and break the law. Is this somehow less of a law because you simply dont think the record companies need to make money?

So you now have some right to tell the record companies how much money they are allowed to make? They are a business, they are there to make money. You either buy it and they make money, or you steal it and break the law. Is this somehow less of a law because you simply dont think the record companies need to make money?

laws aren't the same as morals son

and to the point about bands losing money: from what I've heard bands make more playing than recording but if what you say is true then I might have to revise my position

laws aren't the same as morals son

and to the point about bands losing money: from what I've heard bands make more playing than recording but if what you say is true then I might have to revise my position

So that makes it ok to steal from them?

Why not ask if you can copy it after you give it to them?
Seconded.

Right, so 'Here's you present!'
'Oh, thank you!'
'Yeah, can I have it back now...'

I'm not sure if that would go down too well.No, not if you do it like that, jackass.

How about...

"Here's your present!"
"Wow, great! I've been wanting this!"
"Yeah, it looks like a great album. When you get a chance, I'd love a copy."
"Hey, no problem."

I don't see the problem here... My friends and I make copies for each other all the time.

The only issue that might arise is when you choose the CD... You should be sure you are picking something your friend would want, and not merely what you would choose for yourself.

Well, if it is illegal, doesn't that make it immoral? :confused: Also, you would have to open it and your friend might not appreciate getting a "used" present. I know I wouldn't.

Would you say owning a pistol is immoral?

If there was a safer alternative to crossing the road that yeilded the same result, I would use it.
Even if it takes longer and you'd have to pay for it?

Most of my friends wouldnt be surprised at all, and would be super-grateful to get the CD, in the first place.

So that makes it ok to steal from them?

If it's not immoral? Yes, it makes it fine. Although I'd take issue with the word 'steal'

Personally, I'd just wait a few weeks until the friend is around you listening to the CD, then ask "Hey, can I copy this?". You know, act like you didn't realize the music was that good until you heard it. It usually appears totally innocent and harmless.

If it's not immoral? Yes, it makes it fine. Although I'd take issue with the word 'steal'

What issue? If you illegaly copy material that is copywrited, its stealing? Is there some other degree of theft that I am not aware of?

What issue? If you illegaly copy material that is copywrited, its stealing? Is there some other degree of theft that I am not aware of?

Well if you wouldn't it buy it if the illegal option wasn't available then no one loses anything. All you are doing is violating the copyright, I wouldn't call that stealing.

Well if you wouldn't it buy it if the illegal option wasn't available then no one loses anything. All you are doing is violating the copyright, I wouldn't call that stealing.

If you do not pay the people that hold the copywrite, then you stole it from them. I think you are confusing physical property with intellectual property. Either or is stealing.

This is an interesting question, if you ask me, because there are two different sides to it. You could argue that copying a CD would be unfaithful to your friend and that you may have simply bought the present for your own use. Also, through the process of copying the CD, which is illegal in most circumstances, you may scratch the present or damage it in some way.
On the other hand, copying a CD would save you the extra cash that you would have had to fork out to buy the exact same disc. And because your friend is...well, a friend wouldn't he want you to save your money.

1) Illegal.
2) Tacky to give an opened present -- would you want HALF a bottle of scotch?
3) If you were sure it were all right, you'd expect your friend to say, "Sure, copy it!" after s/he received it. You're not even giving them the opportunity to say no. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

If you do not pay the people that hold the copywrite, then you stole it from them. I think you are confusing physical property with intellectual property. Either or is stealing.

I think you need to think outside of the box son, simply because something is this case legally doesn't mean it's the case literally. If I download a piece of music for personal use that I wouldn't have bought anyway and that I don't share then no one loses anything. I violate copyright.

Anyway it's not all that relevant, because stealing isn't always wrong either.

I think you need to think outside of the box son, simply because something is this case legally doesn't mean it's the case literally. If I download a piece of music for personal use that I wouldn't have bought anyway and that I don't share then no one loses anything. I violate copyright.

Anyway it's not all that relevant, because stealing isn't always wrong either.

First of all dont call me son.

Second of all, just because you did not intend to buy it does give you the right to steal it. You dont go to a car dealership, take a car without paying for it then tell the police you did not intend on buying it or borrowing it out.

Its the same with media.

*shrug* Buy them something you don't like... then you wont be tempted.

First of all dont call me son.

Second of all, just because you did not intend to buy it does give you the right to steal it. You dont go to a car dealership, take a car without paying for it then tell the police you did not intend on buying it or borrowing it out.

Its the same with media.

No worries kid.

Well, that's a whole other thing and you know it. I believe those that are into their logical fallacies can tell you what that's called. A car is taken - it's gone - by taking it you've cost them money. With a song no one loses out: you're looking at a victimless crime.