NationStates Jolt Archive

I loved X-Men and X-Men United, especially the latter. Thoroughly enjoyable films.

Now, I had been taken in a bit by the naysayers leading up to the release of the third installment... but after seeing several trailers and TV-spots, my hopes were lifted. This began to look like it could be an awesome film.

The same thing happened to me with Batman Begins. The difference is that Batman delivered on its promises.

X3 did not. I was so excited about this film that I went to a midnight showing last night... and I could hardly have been more disappointed. I just submitted a review to IMDB, which I will post below. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who liked this film... just what did you enjoy about it?

Oh, and one more thing. I found out (too late) that there is some sort of surprised twist after the credits. (I was so disgusted after the film that I made a very hasty exit.) Can someone tell me what it is? (With spoiler tags, obviously, or just tg me.)

And now, my review (contains spoilers, white text):

This film could have been another "Empire Strikes Back." With a bleakly tragic plot line and a devastating list of casualties, it could have described the heart-wrenching tragedy that inevitably unravels at the core of the greatest sagas.

They had all the right pieces. A daunting, uncontrollable new power in the form of the Phoenix, with the obvious implication that the Professor's fearful meddling in young Jean's mind is at least partly responsible for her untamed alter-ego. Doubting himself--not as a telepath, but as a teacher--Xavier had locked off the parts of her power that he believed could not be educated. Thus hidden from her conscious mind, this power had the freedom to become the Phoenix, a selfish and destructive creature possessing nearly unimaginable power.

Meanwhile, a major pharmaceutical company develops a "cure" for the mutant condition, sharply dividing the mutant community and providing the banner around which Magneto can build his own army of angry mutants. The government, of course, has weaponized the "cure" using plastic darts that take only seconds to incapacitate their target.

Again, all of the right pieces for a genuine tragedy for our X-Men. Betrayal, fallen friends, hopeless odds. I loved this story. I could have enjoyed this pain... but they just would not let me.

On a dramatic level, the film falls flat. Director Brett Ratner comes across as amateurish and unoriginal, while choppy editing and rush-job writing whisk us through a dazzling array of scenes with virtually no dramatic impact. Meanwhile, writers and director simply refused to tug at the nagging loose threads of their own story. The most glaring example? Xavier, who may not have deserved to die, certainly made his own death-bed. Despite a weakly-drawn confrontation with Wolverine, however, not to mention punchy but thin accusations from Magneto, Xavier never admits his mistakes, never confronts his contradictions. Thus, he dies still pleading his pathetic paternalism to a Jean Grey already destroyed by his own manipulations. He dies with impotent stubbornness, with no dignity because he cannot escape his conceit. His death, while tragic, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because he never managed to repent.

If his death is sour, Xavier's memorial and the succeeding scenes are far worse. The memorial is brief and unremarkable; afterward, Hank discusses closing the school, an option that Storm all too quickly rejects. We are supposed to feel uplifted, hopeful that life goes on for the X-Men. Instead, I feel cheated, robbed of yet another chance to properly mourn the loss of an icon: we never get to absorb his death, to revel in the tragedy. Suddenly, things are simply back to normal.

The narrative flow is practically non-existent: the story, while interesting, fails to build tension toward a dramatic climax. It is hardly helped by a flat and uninspired musical score.

There was no need for the X-Men to "win" this battle. There was every reason, in fact, for them to lose. We might have left this story with Magneto and Phoenix ascendant, at the verge of true world conquest. Indeed, this would have provided the escalation necessary to make the Sentinels a reality, to launch this movie franchise wholesale into the bleak and unapologetic world of the X-Men comics.

Instead, we get Hank McCoy, ambassador to the UN. We get a world in which, for no apparent reason, human and mutant suddenly get along. Yes, the X-Men saved the world (again) from Magneto, and they defeated the seemingly unstoppable Phoenix... but are we really supposed to believe that human paranoia gives in that easily? The actors, for the most part, did a superb job with a lousy script. Ellen Page was especially notable for a very honest, very relatable Kitty Pryde--I wish we had seen more of her.

I loved this story. I love a good tragedy. Too bad they had to ruin it.

Perhaps someone has had a chance to see it this evening?

Verdigroth is seeing it in an hour and a half. I was gonna, but i have a radio show to do.
I agree, the first two were most excellent. As soon as i heard they were swapping directors, i knew we were in trouble.
So far i haven't been convinced otherwise.
As is ... Spidey 3 (i'd heard) is supposed to introduce Venom, or at least the suit, and i frankly don't think we're really ready for that, since that series AND Batman Begins were particularly good, considering.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing X Men 3. But your review disturbs me.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing X Men 3. But your review disturbs me.You should still see it. After we left, I said to my girlfriend (who was almost as disappointed as I) that this was destined to be a money-maker regardless... after all, if I had known last night what I know now, I would still have gone. I had to see this film.

Of course, unlike the others I will not go to see it again... not even to catch the after-credits "surprise," which I am hoping someone will reveal to me soon.

Perhaps someone has had a chance to see it this evening?
haven't seen it and no, the spoilers didn't for me.

sounds like they kept some options open, while altering others. the stories still seem to hold to the main storylines that the Xmen did hold. the following are baised off of the comics. not the movie.

Hank was disillusioned with the school when he left to join the Avengers he helped from time to time at the behest of Xavier (after his 2nd return from the grave) but after a while, stayed away until Scott, Jean and Warren contacted him for the X-Factor franchise.

Jean's rise to Dark Pheonix was due to her subconscience that was tampered with by Mastermind. However, since Mastermind died in the second X-men movie... they needed another catalyst. what you included seems logical. for Jean did hold a special place in Xavier's heart.

the weaponizing of the "Cure" is another element from the comics. Forge did create a neutralizer. a weapon that can remove/block a mutant's power. Storm was the first to fall to this weapon... much to Forge's dismay (they were dating at the time.)


the ending that bothers you did occure. there was a time period where the fear was gone, the purpose of the school revealled. and a friendly truce present. however, Stryfe, Mr Sinister, Apocolypse and the sons of purity (I think, a radical terror group aiming to wipe out mutants) again cast mistrust between the two groups. thus a "Nightmare of Future Past" is still possible if they decide to go with a fourth installment.

Glad you liked most of it. it does sound rather interesting.

Aye, I saw the midnight showing last night.

The plot twist at the end was the female doctor and the patient who had no real brain capacity. The doctor is walking around the room, and the audience hears xavier's voice for a second, coming from the patient. Basically, xavier is still alive.

Anyways, I agree with your review. It simply wasn't a great movie. I didn't even have high expectations; it was a last minute desicion to watch it, with some friends of mine asking if I wanted to come see it. I work at the theatre, so I figured I'd go with.


Jean and cyclops dead, magneto might as well be dead(except for the whole moving the chess piece, which is a bit dumb), etc. The cure and pheonix in one movie. They did too much in the movie, methinks. Except for no nightcrawler or gambit. They would have been nice.

Wolverine has been made into way too main of a character, though I did like the whole "fuck being a good guy, I kill who gets in my way" mentality. I did like beast in the movie, or at least the end. Never really expected to see beast kick ass like that.

Finally, the best part of the movie was juggernaut. Specifically, "Do you know who you're fucking talking too? I'm the juggernaut, bitch!"

You should still see it. After we left, I said to my girlfriend (who was almost as disappointed as I) that this was destined to be a money-maker regardless... after all, if I had known last night what I know now, I would still have gone. I had to see this film.

Of course, unlike the others I will not go to see it again... not even to catch the after-credits "surprise," which I am hoping someone will reveal to me soon.

Here:

Remember the old guy in the hospital without a consciousness Xavier was discussing in his ethics class, the one attended by his friend Moira? The old guy spoke to Moira as Xavier.

I'm looking forward to it, though admittedly I'm on Magneto's side.

Humans: "You're evil bastards and we hate you! Here, we're gonna change you because we're scared. *dart*"

Magneto: "... You fuckin' bastards."

Prof. X: "Maybe we could have tea? *gets darted*"


I never understood the conflict. I know X doesn't agree with Mag's methods, but he has to know the humans are retarded in not accepting the mutation as evolution above what humans are and should, in fact, be embraced. "We can do it with peace!" No. No, you can't. If X hadn't been busy fighting the other mutants, he could've focused on teaching the humans better.


Batman Begins was badfuckin'ass, I expect a lot from the sequel.

I didn't especially like the Spiderman movies - not because the movies themselves were bad, they weren't, I just don't like Toby McGuire. A step towards Venom is an improvement, but I'm waiting on fucking pins and needles until they pull out all the stops and bring in the real master: Carnage.

ALL HAIL CARNAGE!

Btw, previews... Ghost rider and Snakes on a plane... wootage! Best part is, I get to go see both for free! Yay for working at a theatre.

Btw, previews... Ghost rider and Snakes on a plane... wootage! Best part is, I get to go see both for free! Yay for working at a theatre.

I'm slightly unimpressed and on edge waiting for them to come out with a Deadpool movie.

DEADPOOL! As long as they're making comic movies, they should start with the most badass.

I am on my way to see it in about an hour. I do so with a little trepidation as from what I've heard I shall be sorely disappointed, but like you said it's a must to see the film anyway. Perhaps I'll get the chance to post the easter egg for you tonight.

I have to say that I was also kinda disappointed with the movie. There were heaps of new developments ie Phoenix, that could've made the movie even better had they actually been used properly. Instead I left the theatre thinking why on earth the director had bothered introducing certain characters for example Angel.

Of the "Super" 3s...

The writer of Spiderman 3 is the writer of Harld and Eugene, Hero, Paper Moon, Nuts, A Star is Born, and What About Bob?. That's someone comfortable with character development.

X-Men 3 is from the guy who started his career with The Last Action Hero-the film that proved you can't just put Arnie in a movie and have it suceed, and then went on to PCU (which does have one hilarious scene..."GO TO SLEEP!!!") and Inspector Gadget. He did write the second one, but he also wrote Elektra and Fantastic Four. (He's also listed as writing, shit you not, Spy Hunter...and a sequel to The Hulk)
and he's teamed with the guy who wrote XXX 2 and Mr. & Mrs. Smith. (which is apparently being pitched as a TV show...again...I mean...well, look up the title...) These are guys who can barely be argued to writing a good action sequence.

This is where the failing, if there is one (I haven't seen it, but literally as I was writing this my roommate came by and told me it was 'awesome'-though he also thinks that a movie that is literally wall to wall action is a good idea, too.), lies. To make Marvel characters work you have to spend time on the internal conflict of the charcter, not just the powers and use there of.

I have to say, though, that the super hero fights have been among the best in the X-Men series. Mostly because, unlike the other movies, it's a world of super powered beings instead of just two or three. I'd like to see it where a movie like X-Men acknowledges Spiderman or vice versa.

So that's my disjuncted (and slightly self interested) rant on the importance of screenwriters and approach to movies of this kind.

It wasn't too disappointing for me. I rather liked it but you have to be good at looking for and understanding symbols and foreshadows. I am soo pissed that I missed the twist at the end! I didn't know about it until you mentioned it. I will have to ask my friends if they caught it. Now I have to go see it again to find out what it was.

Of the "Super" 3s...

The writer of Spiderman 3 is the writer of Harld and Eugene, Hero, Paper Moon, Nuts, A Star is Born, and What About Bob?. That's someone comfortable with character development.

X-Men 3 is from the guy who started his career with The Last Action Hero-the film that proved you can't just put Arnie in a movie and have it suceed, and then went on to PCU (which does have one hilarious scene..."GO TO SLEEP!!!") and Inspector Gadget. He did write the second one, but he also wrote Elektra and Fantastic Four. (He's also listed as writing, shit you not, Spy Hunter...and a sequel to The Hulk)
and he's teamed with the guy who wrote XXX 2 and Mr. & Mrs. Smith. (which is apparently being pitched as a TV show...again...I mean...well, look up the title...) These are guys who can barely be argued to writing a good action sequence.

This is where the failing, if there is one (I haven't seen it, but literally as I was writing this my roommate came by and told me it was 'awesome'-though he also thinks that a movie that is literally wall to wall action is a good idea, too.), lies. To make Marvel characters work you have to spend time on the internal conflict of the charcter, not just the powers and use there of.

I have to say, though, that the super hero fights have been among the best in the X-Men series. Mostly because, unlike the other movies, it's a world of super powered beings instead of just two or three. I'd like to see it where a movie like X-Men acknowledges Spiderman or vice versa.

So that's my disjuncted (and slightly self interested) rant on the importance of screenwriters and approach to movies of this kind.


http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20060519

I actually wasn't disappointed at all. I mean, sure, it's Brett Ratner, but come on.

He did a really good job with the amount of pressure and responsibility on his hands. Could the movie have been better? Sure. Did he do an OK job with what he was handed? I would say yes. X3 was definitely a step-up from Rush Hour.


And who didn't laugh when Juggernaut said this (Spoiler, kind of): Don't you know who I am? I'm the Juggernaut bitch!"

I also cracked up when Beast brings out "Oh my stars and garders..."

It wasn't too disappointing for me. I rather liked it but you have to be good at looking for and understanding symbols and foreshadows. I am soo pissed that I missed the twist at the end! I didn't know about it until you mentioned it. I will have to ask my friends if they caught it. Now I have to go see it again to find out what it was.
See looking for stuff like that is the reason I would consider going a second time, to see if there are any tidbits I missed the first time around, wouldn't suprise me I normaly don't catch stuff like that until the second viewing.

Thanks to those who posted the "surprise" ending. Personally, I think it's kind of lame, for reasons that should be obvious considering my other complaints. Also, a little too predictable: after we left my girlfriend said, "What ever happened to that patient with no mind? Don't you think someone could come back by taking that body?"

Ugh.

Of the "Super" 3s...

The writer of Spiderman 3 is the writer of Harld and Eugene, Hero, Paper Moon, Nuts, A Star is Born, and What About Bob?. That's someone comfortable with character development.

X-Men 3 is from the guy who started his career with The Last Action Hero-the film that proved you can't just put Arnie in a movie and have it suceed, and then went on to PCU (which does have one hilarious scene..."GO TO SLEEP!!!") and Inspector Gadget. He did write the second one, but he also wrote Elektra and Fantastic Four. (He's also listed as writing, shit you not, Spy Hunter...and a sequel to The Hulk)
and he's teamed with the guy who wrote XXX 2 and Mr. & Mrs. Smith. (which is apparently being pitched as a TV show...again...I mean...well, look up the title...) These are guys who can barely be argued to writing a good action sequence.

This is where the failing, if there is one (I haven't seen it, but literally as I was writing this my roommate came by and told me it was 'awesome'-though he also thinks that a movie that is literally wall to wall action is a good idea, too.), lies. To make Marvel characters work you have to spend time on the internal conflict of the charcter, not just the powers and use there of.

I have to say, though, that the super hero fights have been among the best in the X-Men series. Mostly because, unlike the other movies, it's a world of super powered beings instead of just two or three. I'd like to see it where a movie like X-Men acknowledges Spiderman or vice versa.

So that's my disjuncted (and slightly self interested) rant on the importance of screenwriters and approach to movies of this kind.
Thank you. *bows*

You are all sadly missing the point. The film though called "X-Men" is really about MAGNETO.

Yes, X3 had everything I wanted in a film. It started off with Magneto absolutely destroying anything that got in his way.

It had Magneto in the middle threatening everyone who may get in his way.

Towards the end it had Magneto once more owning those who got in his way.

And at the end itself it had Magneto once more victorious.

So all in all, X-Men the three had everything I wanted; and how said something about the score? It had Ominous choral to Magneto, isn't that all that's needed?

You are all sadly missing the point. The film though called "X-Men" is really about MAGNETO.

Yes, X3 had everything I wanted in a film. It started off with Magneto absolutely destroying anything that got in his way.

It had Magneto in the middle threatening everyone who may get in his way.

Towards the end it had Magneto once more owning those who got in his way.

And at the end itself it had Magneto once more victorious.

So all in all, X-Men the three had everything I wanted; and who said something about the score? It had Ominous choral to Magneto, isn't that all that's needed?

You are all sadly missing the point. The film though called "X-Men" is really about MAGNETO.

Yes, X3 had everything I wanted in a film. It started off with Magneto absolutely destroying anything that got in his way.

It had Magneto in the middle threatening everyone who may get in his way.

Towards the end it had Magneto once more owning those who got in his way.

And at the end itself it had Magneto once more victorious.

So all in all, X-Men the three had everything I wanted; and how said something about the score? It had Ominous choral to Magneto, isn't that all that's needed?well Magneto is my favorite villian in the Marvel Universe. while he and Xavier did clash on methods, they were working for the same goal. and at times, they showed Magneto's faith in his goals. like when he almost killed Kitty Pryde. when he realized what had happened, he stopped the fight and even tho he was winning, he left because he felt that he had lost his vision when he lashed out at her in anger. A loss that was deeper than loosing to the X-men. :D

You are all sadly missing the point. The film though called "X-Men" is really about MAGNETO.

Yes, X3 had everything I wanted in a film. It started off with Magneto absolutely destroying anything that got in his way.

It had Magneto in the middle threatening everyone who may get in his way.

Towards the end it had Magneto once more owning those who got in his way.

And at the end itself it had Magneto once more victorious.

So all in all, X-Men the three had everything I wanted; and how said something about the score? It had Ominous choral to Magneto, isn't that all that's needed?
I was making fun of Anaconda (during a scene where the snake shoots up a chimeny from water thats on fire another friend turned to me and said, "I had a dream like this once, but I don't know what it means..." which made it the best part of the movie.) and a friend responded, "Yeah, but there was something subtle, you see-there was this giant snake, and it was eating people."

I was making fun of Anaconda (during a scene where the snake shoots up a chimeny from water thats on fire another friend turned to me and said, "I had a dream like this once, but I don't know what it means..." which made it the best part of the movie.) and a friend responded, "Yeah, but there was something subtle, you see-there was this giant snake, and it was eating people."

Okay, I officially laughed out loud at that one. :D

The best Juggernaught line was almost spoiled for me because of something that I had seen earlier in the day: a spliced dubbed episode of the cartoon Xmen, where two black guys do the dialogue. Pretty much all he says is " 'Cause I'm the Juggahnaught, BIOTCH!" and then there was the other guy with the "pimp cane" and various monologues about rape and pillage...

I must say, however, that my favorite parts in the movie was all the Marines/SF guys encircling the camp. I wish there was an airsoft equivalent to their guns! It seemed to me like I was watching a big ad for Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter, though. Best of all were the cameos: R. Lee Ermey...et al.

What upset me the most was the complete lack of the best X-Man ever, Gambit.

I loved X-Men and X-Men United, especially the latter. Thoroughly enjoyable films.

Now, I had been taken in a bit by the naysayers leading up to the release of the third installment... but after seeing several trailers and TV-spots, my hopes were lifted. This began to look like it could be an awesome film.

The same thing happened to me with Batman Begins. The difference is that Batman delivered on its promises.

X3 did not. I was so excited about this film that I went to a midnight showing last night... and I could hardly have been more disappointed. I just submitted a review to IMDB, which I will post below. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who liked this film... just what did you enjoy about it?

Oh, and one more thing. I found out (too late) that there is some sort of surprised twist after the credits. (I was so disgusted after the film that I made a very hasty exit.) Can someone tell me what it is? (With spoiler tags, obviously, or just tg me.)

And now, my review (contains spoilers, white text):

This film could have been another "Empire Strikes Back." With a bleakly tragic plot line and a devastating list of casualties, it could have described the heart-wrenching tragedy that inevitably unravels at the core of the greatest sagas.

They had all the right pieces. A daunting, uncontrollable new power in the form of the Phoenix, with the obvious implication that the Professor's fearful meddling in young Jean's mind is at least partly responsible for her untamed alter-ego. Doubting himself--not as a telepath, but as a teacher--Xavier had locked off the parts of her power that he believed could not be educated. Thus hidden from her conscious mind, this power had the freedom to become the Phoenix, a selfish and destructive creature possessing nearly unimaginable power.

Meanwhile, a major pharmaceutical company develops a "cure" for the mutant condition, sharply dividing the mutant community and providing the banner around which Magneto can build his own army of angry mutants. The government, of course, has weaponized the "cure" using plastic darts that take only seconds to incapacitate their target.

Again, all of the right pieces for a genuine tragedy for our X-Men. Betrayal, fallen friends, hopeless odds. I loved this story. I could have enjoyed this pain... but they just would not let me.

On a dramatic level, the film falls flat. Director Brett Ratner comes across as amateurish and unoriginal, while choppy editing and rush-job writing whisk us through a dazzling array of scenes with virtually no dramatic impact. Meanwhile, writers and director simply refused to tug at the nagging loose threads of their own story. The most glaring example? Xavier, who may not have deserved to die, certainly made his own death-bed. Despite a weakly-drawn confrontation with Wolverine, however, not to mention punchy but thin accusations from Magneto, Xavier never admits his mistakes, never confronts his contradictions. Thus, he dies still pleading his pathetic paternalism to a Jean Grey already destroyed by his own manipulations. He dies with impotent stubbornness, with no dignity because he cannot escape his conceit. His death, while tragic, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because he never managed to repent.

If his death is sour, Xavier's memorial and the succeeding scenes are far worse. The memorial is brief and unremarkable; afterward, Hank discusses closing the school, an option that Storm all too quickly rejects. We are supposed to feel uplifted, hopeful that life goes on for the X-Men. Instead, I feel cheated, robbed of yet another chance to properly mourn the loss of an icon: we never get to absorb his death, to revel in the tragedy. Suddenly, things are simply back to normal.

The narrative flow is practically non-existent: the story, while interesting, fails to build tension toward a dramatic climax. It is hardly helped by a flat and uninspired musical score.

There was no need for the X-Men to "win" this battle. There was every reason, in fact, for them to lose. We might have left this story with Magneto and Phoenix ascendant, at the verge of true world conquest. Indeed, this would have provided the escalation necessary to make the Sentinels a reality, to launch this movie franchise wholesale into the bleak and unapologetic world of the X-Men comics.

Instead, we get Hank McCoy, ambassador to the UN. We get a world in which, for no apparent reason, human and mutant suddenly get along. Yes, the X-Men saved the world (again) from Magneto, and they defeated the seemingly unstoppable Phoenix... but are we really supposed to believe that human paranoia gives in that easily? The actors, for the most part, did a superb job with a lousy script. Ellen Page was especially notable for a very honest, very relatable Kitty Pryde--I wish we had seen more of her.

I loved this story. I love a good tragedy. Too bad they had to ruin it.
I was never a comic reader. I did enjoy the first two X-men films, though I will admit that I watched them mostly due to Patrick Stewart playing Professor X.

...but...despite the naysaying...I still had hope...Professor X might have still made the movie decent, along with Magneto...but after that spoiler...fuck it, it's just not worth it, man. Not even worth TORRENTING, for Einstein's sake. Damn it.

The best Juggernaught line was almost spoiled for me because of something that I had seen earlier in the day: a spliced dubbed episode of the cartoon Xmen, where two black guys do the dialogue. Pretty much all he says is " 'Cause I'm the Juggahnaught, BIOTCH!" and then there was the other guy with the "pimp cane" and various monologues about rape and pillage...

I must say, however, that my favorite parts in the movie was all the Marines/SF guys encircling the camp. I wish there was an airsoft equivalent to their guns! It seemed to me like I was watching a big ad for Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter, though. Best of all were the cameos: R. Lee Ermey...et al.

Where do you think they decided to put that line in? That dub was out a lot longer than the movie...

What did I like?

Well, Magneto in all his militant glory was awesome. If I were a mutant in the X-verse I'd have been rooting for him. X-Men has always appealed to me as a gay person for the whole theme of being an outsider, and even though a straight director took over from Brian Singer I think they still played on the theme of being different quite well. Loved how adamant Storm was about the whole idea: "they can't cure you, because there's nothing to cure." Lord knows if they ever said that some lab had found a 'cure' for being gay, I'd be tempted to firebomb the motherfucker. And the special effects-- specifically Magneto and Phoenix when they open up with their powers-- was cool to watch. I love watching *really* powerful villains do their work.

Now what didn't I like?

I don't like watching them do their work on my favourite X-Man! Cyclops dead within the first-- like-- 15 mins of the movie? Not just killed, but snuffed out like some extra. After that I already wanted that traitor psycho to die, and then she went and blew up Xavier. I don't know if anyone saw the issue of "What If" way back when, about Cable betraying the X-Men... but in it he blew up Xavier, Cyclops and Jean, because he (and the Watcher) saw them as the "soul, mind, and heart" of the X-Men. And this movie murdered all three of them. Oh well, at least we still have Cudmore as Colossus.
And I'm sorry to all the Hugh Jackman fans out there, but Wolverine's the other thing that annoyed me about X3 (as well as X1 and X2). Yes, he's cool, sure. But the movie is "X-Men," not "Wolverine" or "Wolverine & the X-Men." Wolverine isn't the leader of the X-Men, or the most powerful X-Man, or the most dedicated to Xavier's teaching. He isn't the strongest X-Man or the smartest X-Man. He's the one who tells people off and kills people with the greatest facility, and has the most "attitude," so he was made the star of all three movies. That always bugged me. That instead of featuring the brains or the idealism or the soul of the whole X-Men mythos, they elevate the guy who goes crazy and kills people, and never gets cancer from all the cigars he smokes. And more than just offending my personal tastes, I suppose I always found it offensive as a member of the consumer audience, that those marketing the X-Men franchise *always* seem to assume that we mindless cattle are naturally going to be more interested in the berzerk hack-n-slash tough guy than in the idealism or the intellect behind the X-Men.

So that's my beef. Too much of Wolverine, too little of Xavier, too little of Xavier's first X-Man, too little of Jean Grey struggling for her own redemption. Considering how long and how loyally I read the comics, and how much I shelled out as they propogated more and more titles (it got unsustainable for me after the Age of Apocalypse, but of what I do know, I'm kinda glad that's when I had to give up collecting), I felt a little betrayed.

I loved the film. Not much else I need to say.

We might have left this story with Magneto and Phoenix ascendant, at the verge of true world conquest. Indeed, this would have provided the escalation necessary to make the Sentinels a reality, to launch this movie franchise wholesale into the bleak and unapologetic world of the X-Men comics.
Actually, as in the storyline the pheonix was for all intents and purposes evolving and that she was beginning to radiate like a small star there would have been no further storyline. Everyone on the earth would just be dead. All I've got to say is that Gambit better damn well have a major part in X4.


As for you're complaint with Xavier, all of the new storylines and even the older storylines to a lesser extent show Xavier as extremely fallible and arrogant. It's just that he has enough telepathic ability to compensate for all of his lower-level mistakes. This means however that when a mistake finally does go out of control, it tends to be pretty damn major.

All I've got to say is that Gambit better damn well have a major part in X4.

There ain't gonna be no X4. Didn't you get that?

"X3: The Last Stand"

There ain't gonna be no X4. Didn't you get that?

"X3: The Last Stand"
http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/2006/01/fox_confirms_xmen_4.html

Despite the stupid title "X-Men: The Last Stand", Fox Head Tom Rothman has confirmed that there will indeed be an X-Men 4, and probably more after that as well

WARNING: BIG SPOILERS AHEAD








I saw X-Men 3 last night and I have to say I was a little disappointed, it took me awhile to figure out why. The last two X-Men movies seemed to concentrate on only a few characters, delving into who they were and how they tick, but X3, they tried to pack to much in, multiple story lines and to many characters. I would have loved to see Beast torn between his desire to fit in and his desire to be excepted as a mutant,or see Rogue confront Iceman about his affections (however slight they may have been) towards Kitty or even Wolverine reacting in a much bigger way to the return of Jean Grey or the loss of her at the end. The surface was skimmed on what could have been a much deeper movie.

They changed some pretty big things from the comic as well. The Phoenix was not a by product of some split personality, it was the manifestation of a cosmic being, Beast should have had much larger feet and hands and did wolverine just stop caring what happened to him in the past? I recognize that they couldn't do ANOTHER movie about him, but to drop such a big part of a character without so much as a how-do-you-do is just terrible.



There wasn't any development in the villains either, hell, you see one or two of them for over half the movie and only in the last 20 minutes do they show their powers. The guy who played Multiple Man was just a cheap bootleg version of Bruce Campbell. They never even hinted at the fact that Juggernaut and Xavier are related at all, which is just failing at what could have been some great banter or quips.

Xavier dies? What the fuck? Cyclops dying I don't care about, that guy always seemed to be a pussy to me, but Jean Luc Piccard? You don't kill him, you just don't do that.

There ain't gonna be no X4. Didn't you get that?

"X3: The Last Stand" Kind of like Freddy's Dead: the Finale Nightmare or Jason Goes To hell: The Finale Friday or even Friday the 13th: The Finale Chapter.

Title does not dictate sequels

Kind of like Freddy's Dead: the Finale Nightmare or Jason Goes To hell: The Finale Friday or even Friday the 13th: The Finale Chapter.

Title does not dictate sequels

Indeed not. If there's enough money to be made, a sequel is likely despite whatever the title says.

Actually, as in the storyline the pheonix was for all intents and purposes evolving and that she was beginning to radiate like a small star there would have been no further storyline. Everyone on the earth would just be dead.Right, but that's my complaint: there was no need for that, and there was no need to kill her off so soon. Even if it were hinted that she might ultimately become a literal threat to all existence, there was no need to have it happen in the very film that introduces her.

My point is that this could have been a deeper film, an emotional low point that sets the stage for a greater saga. But Fox was obviously committed to the idea of a "trilogy" (possible future films notwithstanding), and bit off more than they (or any of us) could chew in this film.

All I've got to say is that Gambit better damn well have a major part in X4.I'll agree with you there. I also desperately wish that Nightcrawler will make a comeback... and that Rogue will not only regain her power, but will ultimately capture the full range of her canonical abilities. (Given her current state, believing that she is human and therefore unprepared for the possible effects of her touch, one can imagine very clean and believable ways to make this transformation all at once when her innate power returns.)

As for you're complaint with Xavier, all of the new storylines and even the older storylines to a lesser extent show Xavier as extremely fallible and arrogant.I know. But "movie-Xavier" certainly wasn't played up this way... and if that's the direction in which they wanted to take the character, it was all too quick and easy in X3. Either it should have been abundantly clear that he got what was coming to him, or he should have redeemed himself by admitting his mistake. Instead, his death was cheap--no matter how you look at it.

Indeed not. If there's enough money to be made, a sequel is likely despite whatever the title says.
I would think that they'd move onto Weapon X. Just do Wolverine for a while or something.

Indeed not. If there's enough money to be made, a sequel is likely despite whatever the title says.

Yeah. I was pretty surprised when Final fantasty 2 came out.

I would think that they'd move onto Weapon X. Just do Wolverine for a while or something.

I was wondering why they didn't, frankly. Even a prequel Weapon X movie could have done very well. Nostalgia value and whatnot.

Yeah. I was pretty surprised when Final fantasty 2 came out.

There's a Final Fantasy 2? I must have missed that somehow...

There's a Final Fantasy 2? I must have missed that somehow...
I think he meant Final Fantasy IIV Avent Children.

Screw the whole "cure" plot. The movie would have rocked, if they made Apocalypse part of it.

Screw the whole "cure" plot. The movie would have rocked, if they made Apocalypse part of it.
Actually the "cure" idea is one they can bring back since it's obviously temporary... and the perfect way to give Rouge her partial Invulnerability and Fight powers.

Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister and even Stryfe are all in the wings... waiting to make their appearances.

SPOILERS: If anyone who hasnt seen it is still reading this thread.

You take issue with the lack of repentance on Xaviers behalf for his meddling with Phoenix but frankly i don't feel something like that was necessary. It actually quite annoyed me when Magneto looked back and said "Oh god what have i done" Such reversals, such 'Moral Revelations' arn't necessary. These arnt characters from an episode of lost in space, they don't have to do whats write or what makes them the perfect role model for you. Xaviers refusal to discuss his own failure sat fine with me, i thought it was merely an addition to the depth of his character.

You take issue with the lack of repentance on Xaviers behalf for his meddling with Phoenix but frankly i don't feel something like that was necessary. It actually quite annoyed me when Magneto looked back and said "Oh god what have i done"It annoyed me too, because in this case it was not necessary... I think his realization is realistic, but it was not necessary to verbalize it. But back to Xavier...

Such reversals, such 'Moral Revelations' arn't necessary. These arnt characters from an episode of lost in space, they don't have to do whats write or what makes them the perfect role model for you.I don't need them to be. My complaint regards the lack of drama in the scene, not Xavier's morality per se.

As I have said already, I would have been fine with it had they made it clear that Xavier was getting what he deserved... OR if he had understood his own culpability before his fall. (I happen to think the latter would be more appropriate for his character as it has developed in the films.) My complaint regards a lack of dramatic commitment, not a moral lapse. What could have been a scene with real impact fell completely flat on its own ambiguities.

Xaviers refusal to discuss his own failure sat fine with me, i thought it was merely an addition to the depth of his character. The problem is not that he never admitted his failure so much as they did not make it clear that it was a failure.

Tag.

I'm seeing it later today.

I saw it a couple of days ago with my girlfriend, who is a massive X-Men fan. I, on the other hand, am not. I've never read any of the comics, and have seen a total of about 20 minutes of the other two films. As such, I'm not going to comment on how well it fits in with the rest of the X-Men story.

It's not a great film. There's far too much focus on nifty special effects and big explosions rather than on the story. While for the most part the dialogue is fine, it feels forced and rushed in places. The pace of the film is too fast - probably because the writers etc felt they had to fit so much in while keeping the film under 2 hours. I feel it could easily have been split up into two films that, while they would have been slower, would have been better.

Some bits were predictable, to say the least, though I guess a film intended to be a massive success at the box office isn't going to be the most intellectually demanding film ever.

All in all, the studio achieved what they set out to do, and the majority of people seeing it will be satisfied by it. There'll be people who complain about bits that shouldn't be in it, or characters that should, but there always are when books/comics/etc get adapted into films. It may not be the best adaptation ever, but at least it's not the worst.

Well, I just saw it tonight and have to agree with the majority of you here that I was a tad disapointed.

Mainly due to them trying to put far too much into the movie. It felt like 2 movies being spliced together into one with shitloads cut out due to time constraints cause they couldn't do two. Contractual reasons I suspect. The main actors were signed up only for 3 (If I remember correctly), and since then a few of them (well Hugh anyway) have gotten big star status, so prob won't come back for another unless they pay a lot.

As a result, we end up with cool characters who barely have any screen time (eg Colossus and Juggernaut - I was so looking fwd to them two going toe-2-toe, but it didn't happen) and the battles that are there are over way too quick (eg. Iceman vs Pyrho) cause they have to jump to the next one before the film runs out.

Very disappointed with two aspects of the movie (not giving anything away, but I think you know which two I mean), as it deviated from the comic immensely (being a die-hard X-Men geek when I was young - having every Claremont issue from 106 - 300+).

I felt Wolverine had too much of the screen, at the expense of everyone else. Ok, he's the most popular by far but when you have this number of mutants and good actors, give some of them a bit more screen time, eh?

Also, what the hell happened to Nightcrawler? At least an explanantion for his absence would have been nice. I was hoping to see him in action again. In X-Men II, he finally showed how good he can be (something I never thought he did in the comix).

Some of the dialogue was pretty cheesy - Logan being the main culprit here, especially his'We're X-Men!' and most definitely his 'Noooooo!' at the end. FFS Logan, why are you screaming that? You did it! Ppl only scream 'Nooooo!' when something happens they couldn't stop (and don't bother saying it was inevitable - yeah yeah I know it was, but still).
Have to blame the dildohead director for this I think. Why the hell they gave it to the guy who gave us Speed II I have no idea (why they gave him another movie at all is beyond me). Looking on the positive side - new Superman movie should be great (director of X-Men I & II left this project to do Supers, and if those 2 are anything to go by, he knows his comic/movie adaptions)


That all said, it was pretty enjoyable and the action scenes were awesome. Certainly enjoyed those. Very impressed with Juggernaut - They certainly did a good job on Vinnie to pad him out like that. Also Hank was great - though maybe a mention to having looked human until only recently would have been a good idea. Remember, he did appear as a human in X-Men I (or was it II?). Pedantic maybe, but it would have added a bit depth to his feelings about the cure.
I'd give it a 6/10. Shame, I'm been looking fwd to it since the 2nd one came out. First two, I'd rate 8+'s. so a 6 is a big let-down.


Kicking myself about not staying for the credits. D'oh!

I think he meant Final Fantasy IIV Avent Children.

...no

So, I just finished watching it (thank you bittorrent) and I was satisfied. It's an action flick, not something cerebral where plot matters all that much, even if I do think some scenes were rushed through, especially the scene with Jean and Cyclops at the lake. The event deserved better.

...no
Ahh... then you were talking about the games... I thought it was that...

"in 2016, Square-enix announces the release of "abosolutely, Positively our Final, Final Fantasy XX."

I hope that if they do another one they fix things... I always wanted to see Rogue get her ability to fly and I wanted to see Gambit...


I really hope that in the next one, if there is a next one they do something where the cure is reversable so some of the mutants can get their powers back. I don't like this business where Magneto can't kick some ass or where there isn't at least the potential for Rogue to be able to fly eventually... it makes me sad.

I also really like that Xavier isn't really dead, but Cyclopse is, I always thought he was a douche.

But I really did like the movie.

I hope that if they do another one they fix things... I always wanted to see Rogue get her ability to fly and I wanted to see Gambit...


I really hope that in the next one, if there is a next one they do something where the cure is reversable so some of the mutants can get their powers back. I don't like this business where Magneto can't kick some ass or where there isn't at least the potential for Rogue to be able to fly eventually... it makes me sad.

I also really like that Xavier isn't really dead, but Cyclopse is, I always thought he was a douche.

But I really did like the movie.dunno about Gambit (after all, he would be a theif now, or either that, a student.)
but I hope they do bring Psylocke in.

the cure is temporary, as hinted when Magneto caused the chess peice to wobble. so the possiblity that Rogues powers returning in such a way to making her fly and giving her partial invulerability is a possibility.

I was disapointed tho. Kitty phasing Juggernaut through the floor should've melded him into the floor (killing him), not just encasing him. had she done that, then I can see her trying to deal with the consiquences of her actions in the next movie... since they had that scene where Prof X was talking about Ethics...

So, I just finished watching it (thank you bittorrent) and I was satisfied. It's an action flick, not something cerebral where plot matters all that much, even if I do think some scenes were rushed through, especially the scene with Jean and Cyclops at the lake. The event deserved better.

I think you weren't supposed to see too much so you don't exactly know what happens.

BUT: Doesn't the mutant politician-bloke remind anyone of the Cookie Monster?

I didn't like it. There was no tension, no character development, no suspense, and the action wasn't even that great.

Question, though: did something happen during or after the credits, because I've been told that something did.




SPOILERS









And no, I'm not referring to the chess piece.

I wanna see some Havok action...

BUT: Doesn't the mutant politician-bloke remind anyone of the Cookie Monster?

I just thought he looked like Frasier in a stupid costume.

What I didn't like:

Cyclops' death. Felt like James Marsden said, "I don't want to do this film," and they said "No problem, you'll be dead before anyone cares how much Jean's death is bothering you." And kill a main X-Man like that? COME ON, for heaven's sake!

Jean/Phoenix. There was absolutely NO acting there after Logan realized this was NOT the Jean he'd known. She walked through the movie like a zombie just staring at people... where was the "delight, joy and rage" Xavier described?

Rogue getting the cure because she was jealous of Kitty? Please.

Callisto BEAUTIFUL? Nope.



What I DID like: Kitty outwitting Juggernaut. (Though I don't think she called anyone a dickhead in the comics.)

Clever use of The Multiple Man.

Kelsey Grammer as The Beast. (though I wish they'd have lost the jacket)

A glimpse of "Days of Futures Past" with Colussus and Wolverine and a modified "fastball special" taking out the Sentinel.

Jean/Phoenix. There was absolutely NO acting there after Logan realized this was NOT the Jean he'd known. She walked through the movie like a zombie just staring at people... where was the "delight, joy and rage" Xavier described?



Maybe Xavier confused Joy and Delight with Insanity and Indifference to mankind?

I didn't like it. There was no tension, no character development, no suspense, and the action wasn't even that great.

Question, though: did something happen during or after the credits, because I've been told that something did.




SPOILERS









And no, I'm not referring to the chess piece.the Brain Dead man Xavier was talking about turns to Dr Moria McTaggart and speaks. Dr McTagart reconizes it as Xavier's Voice.

Maybe Xavier confused Joy and Delight with Insanity and Indifference to mankind?
either that, or Magneto was doping her up with Prozac...

I don't think so. She could read everything he was tinking, remember? And threatened him with 4 vials of the cure herself.

dunno about Gambit (after all, he would be a theif now, or either that, a student.)
but I hope they do bring Psylocke in.

the cure is temporary, as hinted when Magneto caused the chess peice to wobble. so the possiblity that Rogues powers returning in such a way to making her fly and giving her partial invulerability is a possibility.

I was disapointed tho. Kitty phasing Juggernaut through the floor should've melded him into the floor (killing him), not just encasing him. had she done that, then I can see her trying to deal with the consiquences of her actions in the next movie... since they had that scene where Prof X was talking about Ethics...
They could bring Gambit in I think, I mean, they wouldn't really be able to do it with him running around with Sinister since Scott and Jean are both dead, making it pointless to have Sinister unless he's going to dig them up and clone them or something since he was obsessed with them... or if they just ignored that entirely and made him do something else

Also, Rogue's ability to fly, super strength and invulnerability weren't a natural evolution of her powers, she got them because she absorbed Ms Marvel's powers, I think that they could have her get the powers easily though if they make her absorption powers come back rather suddenly though, she could be doing something and someone who can fly et c rescues her and she absorbs their powers or something, it would work out nicely and in a way that would keep from having to make her a bad guy

But yeah, it would also be neat to see Psylocke, she was pretty awesome.

I don't think so. She could read everything he was tinking, remember? And threatened him with 4 vials of the cure herself.
Magneto still wore his helmet... it kept Xavier out, I don't see why it wouldn't keep Jean out too even if she's more powerful.

I don't think so. She could read everything he was tinking, remember? And threatened him with 4 vials of the cure herself.
:p
then again, Magneto's helmet does sheild his thoughts.


I would've preferred a Pheonix only story, one that would've made both Magneto and Xavier work together to defeat. you could still have the same casualties, but the two different sides putting away their differences to work together would've rocked as a movie.

and the ending could've hinted at the "Cure" as well as the rise of the Sentinels.

Likes:
Everything Magneto did, it stayed completely true to his character, and I loved it.

Getting to laugh my ass off at Kelsey Grammer

Kitty Pryde pissing off Rogue. For some reason in these movies I hate Rogue.

That Jean's hair had gained a purple tint

That it looks as though Magneto didn't actually lose his powers

Angel.... it just made me want to get wings

That the doctor in this movie was just confused, not deranged beyond all resonable doubt

Dislikes:
Wolverine in this movie, it was just like, ugh

That fact that Nightcrawler has completely dissapeared

People can explode into shards of colorful ash that seems to simply disappear. (This was unsettling.)

The lack of Havok and Gambit, they need to be in the next movie

That Jean/Pheonix was either walking around aimlessly or turning grayish and exploding her boyfriends. Again, I saw no joy.

That I missed the after credit ending.

They could bring Gambit in I think, I mean, they wouldn't really be able to do it with him running around with Sinister since Scott and Jean are both dead, making it pointless to have Sinister unless he's going to dig them up and clone them or something since he was obsessed with them... or if they just ignored that entirely and made him do something else

Also, Rogue's ability to fly, super strength and invulnerability weren't a natural evolution of her powers, she got them because she absorbed Ms Marvel's powers, I think that they could have her get the powers easily though if they make her absorption powers come back rather suddenly though, she could be doing something and someone who can fly et c rescues her and she absorbs their powers or something, it would work out nicely and in a way that would keep from having to make her a bad guy

But yeah, it would also be neat to see Psylocke, she was pretty awesome.
Sinister... Apocolyps... Stryfe.... the Legacy Virus... The Mutant Massacre... there is so much potential for other movies that Last Stand shouldn't be considered the last X-men movie.
That's what I'm talking about. some poor mutant who is invulerable and can fly is enjoying some quality time with a now liberated Rouge and her powers come back... with a vengance.
Brit Psylock vs Sabertooth... that would be interesting to recreate in a movie.

would've been nice to see Storm being hit by the Cure... Then they could've shown the difference in philosophy between the Xmen and the Brotherhood.

That fact that Nightcrawler has completely dissapeared

No pun intended?

well... I believe the rumor was that Ms. Framke was tired of X-Men and wanted out.

we can only assume that scott died, for all we know, he might be in Suspended animation down at the bottom of the lake. :rolleyes: wouldn't be the first or last X-man to die and be reincarnated.

a sinister clone sounds more reasonable tho. also a perfect way to bring in Havok.

I think that this movie could and should have been a lot better. As many other people have noted, there was the opportunity to develope the characters much more than they showed us.

However, I think it is important to note that this is the theatre version, and as such it cannot be seen as the whole movie anymore. The studio may have decided that for a theatre release, it was necessary to cut out a lot of that material. If you aren't really a fan of the characters and just want to see the action, than this was a good movie. I would say that you need to wait for the DVD before you make your final judgement of this film.

Spoilers: Those of you who are upset about the death of Jean and Cyclopse should remember two things. There is no body for cyclopse so the can bring him back for X4. And Jean, as Pheonix, should be able to rise from her ashes and be immortal. Therefore no one of importance died. (See someone else's post to know why Xav didn't die.) That is all.

Maybe Xavier confused Joy and Delight with Insanity and Indifference to mankind?
Well, she did kinda try to rape Wolverine when she first came to... that seemed pretty joyus and instinctual.

Spoilers: Those of you who are upset about the death of Jean and Cyclopse should remember two things. There is no body for cyclopse so the can bring him back for X4. And Jean, as Pheonix, should be able to rise from her ashes and be immortal. Therefore no one of importance died. (See someone else's post to know why Xav didn't die.) That is all.
Oh, actually... that brings in a good way to introduce Sinister possibly... perhaps Cyclopse was just severely injured and left for dead or Phoenix did something weird to him. Sinister finds him, takes him in, resurrects him et c maybe clones Jean or Jean comes back somehow... it could work. Either way, it would be awesome if they brought in some different bad guys.

the Brain Dead man Xavier was talking about turns to Dr Moria McTaggart and speaks. Dr McTagart reconizes it as Xavier's Voice.
Oh COME ON... That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Geez, they screwed the franchise up more than I thought they did.

Oh COME ON... That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Geez, they screwed the franchise up more than I thought they did.
can we play "How many times did Xavier die/transfer to another body in the comics game?"

it didn't ruin the comic runs. and done tastefully, it can be done in the movie. (which it did happen... if you stayed past the credits.)

can we play "How many times did Xavier die/transfer to another body in the comics game?"

it didn't ruin the comic runs. and done tastefully, it can be done in the movie. (which it did happen... if you stayed past the credits.)
Indeed. I thought it was quite well done, I liked it and it kinda made me look forward to a sequel even more (I mean, they wouldn't throw something like that to the end of the credits if it didn't mean there was another one coming, right?) Although it makes me slightly sad that there will likely be a different actor next time.

Indeed. I thought it was quite well done, I liked it and it kinda made me look forward to a sequel even more (I mean, they wouldn't throw something like that to the end of the credits if it didn't mean there was another one coming, right?) Although it makes me slightly sad that there will likely be a different actor next time.
Is there going to be a sequel? I thought this was going to be the last one. I don't know why people were complaining about the movie. I loved it. Even though the characters seem very different, it was still a good movie. Also, one of my friends was in it, which makes it extra special. :D

Is there going to be a sequel? I thought this was going to be the last one. I don't know why people were complaining about the movie. I loved it. Even though the characters seem very different, it was still a good movie. Also, one of my friends was in it, which makes it extra special. :D
ok... spill... who was he/she?
*awaits in anticipation.*

ok... spill... who was he/she?
*awaits in anticipation.*
How did you know it was a she? :eek:

Okay, you know that scene at the beginning when Professor Xavier was teaching a class of teenagers? That girl who put her hand over the paper and notes appeared. She had black hair and really big eyes and lips. That's her. She's absolutely hilarious.

can we play "How many times did Xavier die/transfer to another body in the comics game?"

it didn't ruin the comic runs. and done tastefully, it can be done in the movie. (which it did happen... if you stayed past the credits.)
Film and comic books are two entirely different mediums. Having a different actor potrary Xavier would very likely not work out. When it's a body swap in book form, you use your imagination to believe that it's Xavier, represented differently only by the way he is drawn. In a film, however, the actor would have to be consist in portraying him as he was in the first three films, act in a Patrick Stewart-eque manner, etc. Ten chances to one it would be awkward and silly.

One little thing that annoyed me was juggernaut.
Nothing wrong with the character at all (esp. his "Don't you know who I am, bitch? I'm the Juggernaut!!" and I would have loved ot seen him fight colossus), but he was unstoppable, right?
When we first meet him, he's shackled up to stop him moving, cause his power is he's unstoppable once he starts moving, right?
So when Kitty phases him through the floor, stopping him dead, how does he break free? Surely that was a tougher thing to break out of than those pissy shackles they had him in.

Pedantic I know, but ehh...that's what I'm like.

One little thing that annoyed me was juggernaut.
Nothing wrong with the character at all (esp. his "Don't you know who I am, bitch? I'm the Juggernaut!!" and I would have loved ot seen him fight colossus), but he was unstoppable, right?
When we first meet him, he's shackled up to stop him moving, cause his power is he's unstoppable once he starts moving, right?
So when Kitty phases him through the floor, stopping him dead, how does he break free? Surely that was a tougher thing to break out of than those pissy shackles they had him in.

Pedantic I know, but ehh...that's what I'm like.

Those restraints were probably some serious metal alloy. The floor could have been only a few feet thick and made of stone or something else.

One little thing that annoyed me was juggernaut.
Nothing wrong with the character at all (esp. his "Don't you know who I am, bitch? I'm the Juggernaut!!" and I would have loved ot seen him fight colossus), but he was unstoppable, right?
When we first meet him, he's shackled up to stop him moving, cause his power is he's unstoppable once he starts moving, right?
So when Kitty phases him through the floor, stopping him dead, how does he break free? Surely that was a tougher thing to break out of than those pissy shackles they had him in.

Pedantic I know, but ehh...that's what I'm like.
I don't know, maybe once he started moving his body side to side he couldn't be stopped. He looked pretty stable in his cell.

Film and comic books are two entirely different mediums. Having a different actor potrary Xavier would very likely not work out. When it's a body swap in book form, you use your imagination to believe that it's Xavier, represented differently only by the way he is drawn. In a film, however, the actor would have to be consist in portraying him as he was in the first three films, act in a Patrick Stewart-eque manner, etc. Ten chances to one it would be awkward and silly.
However, we never saw the "body's" face. so a physical twin of Prof X is not unlikely. minor changes here and there (including Hair via a wig, hey, the body did have a beard...) can show the differences.

also, the man may be a clone provided by a Mr Sinister-type villan that he "misplaced" giving a potential plotline for a new villan to appear.

One little thing that annoyed me was juggernaut.
Nothing wrong with the character at all (esp. his "Don't you know who I am, bitch? I'm the Juggernaut!!" and I would have loved ot seen him fight colossus), but he was unstoppable, right?
When we first meet him, he's shackled up to stop him moving, cause his power is he's unstoppable once he starts moving, right?
So when Kitty phases him through the floor, stopping him dead, how does he break free? Surely that was a tougher thing to break out of than those pissy shackles they had him in.

Pedantic I know, but ehh...that's what I'm like.
how it can be explained is that he gaines strength by velocity. after all, he was tossing Wolverine around while barely moving. so his forward momentum (as well as downward movement) could've provided enough energy to break free. tho it would've been funnier if his head did go through that last wall and his body just slumped unconscience...

also, Kitty phasing should've melded him into the floor. thus killing him.

As for cyclops, there's definitely the possibility he's still alive. We never got to see him die, we only infer that because of what Jean does to Prof X later. Remember, he's not got his glasses, so he'll be blind. Which would make it tough to find one's way out of that forest. And he wouldn't know that Prof X was dead, thus no-one to use cerebus to help locate him. So he would first prob stay there, assuming the Prof would locate him. Hence we don't see him the rest of the movie.

And if he is still alive, it might be that he had absorbed some Phoenix's insanity. So when he comes back, he'll be crazier and more edgy. Cyclops and Wolverine would in effect have changed personalities, since wolverine by the end was more of a team leader person and being more responsible. Which would make for an interesting sub-plot in the new movie.

I don't know, maybe once he started moving his body side to side he couldn't be stopped. He looked pretty stable in his cell.
Well that was my first thought. But if that was true, then he could have just spent his time wriggling in his cell to build up momentum.
Maybe the cell was also a stasis pod, which stopped him moving completely. Would explain how they could hold the multiple man in one as well - you think he would have made several copies of himself outside the cell and then freed himself.

I enjoyed the movie but compared to the other two it sucked.

Liked:
The visual effects were good in this movie.

The emergence of Kitty Pride as a major charecter.

Juggernaut.He was hilarious.

Magneto.He was perfectly at his charecter and I love the idea of him retaining his powers(the chess piece0

Disliked:
The complete dissapearence of Nightcrawler.(although I heard that the video game version of the movie delves into this)

The felling that you were being rushed for some scenes.

The lack of seeing Colosous do anything.(Mainly a Jugernaught duel)

Missing the ending after the credits.

Could someone please provide me with the ending after the credits.I missed it.

I also think that it is perfectly possible to do an X4 because of the vast amounts of info. not yet stirred.(Apocalypse,The Sentinels,Magneto and Cyclops possible coming back.)

I enjoyed the movie but compared to the other two it sucked.

Liked:
The visual effects were good in this movie.

The emergence of Kitty Pride as a major charecter.

Juggernaut.He was hilarious.

Magneto.He was perfectly at his charecter and I love the idea of him retaining his powers(the chess piece0

Disliked:
The complete dissapearence of Nightcrawler.(although I heard that the video game version of the movie delves into this)

The felling that you were being rushed for some scenes.

The lack of seeing Colosous do anything.(Mainly a Jugernaught duel)

Missing the ending after the credits.

Could someone please provide me with the ending after the credits.I missed it.post 62 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11049496&postcount=62) for what happened after the Credits.

What do you mean Brain Dead Man?

How did you know it was a she? :eek:

Okay, you know that scene at the beginning when Professor Xavier was teaching a class of teenagers? That girl who put her hand over the paper and notes appeared. She had black hair and really big eyes and lips. That's her. She's absolutely hilarious.
kewl... did she say what her power was or was she just told to move her hand slowly across the page?

What do you mean Brain Dead Man?
in his class about Ethics, he shows a video about a man apparently born without any higher brain functions, but other than that, it's a healthy viable human being. the question was "would it be ethical to transfere another conscieness or mind in to that body?" the class is interupted when storm changes the weather outside.

thanks alot I apperciate it.

kewl... did she say what her power was or was she just told to move her hand slowly across the page?
I never thought of asking her. I could get you an answer by tomorrow.

What I didn't like:

Cyclops' death. Felt like James Marsden said, "I don't want to do this film," and they said "No problem, you'll be dead before anyone cares how much Jean's death is bothering you." And kill a main X-Man like that? COME ON, for heaven's sake!

Jean/Phoenix. There was absolutely NO acting there after Logan realized this was NOT the Jean he'd known. She walked through the movie like a zombie just staring at people... where was the "delight, joy and rage" Xavier described?

I couldn't agree more. They set the stage for some major events with the crazy emotions and she barely gives any affect at all.

Rogue getting the cure because she was jealous of Kitty? Please.

To be fair, she has always been tormented by not being able to touch anyone. It's a terrible power to have. No human touch with bare skin. I can't imagine how horrible that would be.

Callisto BEAUTIFUL? Nope.



What I DID like: Kitty outwitting Juggernaut. (Though I don't think she called anyone a dickhead in the comics.)

I loved that part. Although, they kind of throw out the idea that juggernaut needs momentum and couldn't have any when he was in the floor.

Clever use of The Multiple Man.

Kelsey Grammer as The Beast. (though I wish they'd have lost the jacket)

Brilliant casting. I thought he was soo perfect. And I liked little subtle moments like when they consider using the cure as a weapon.

A glimpse of "Days of Futures Past" with Colussus and Wolverine and a modified "fastball special" taking out the Sentinel.
Yeah, I like that part too.

Overall, I like the movie, but I thought they tried to do too much and I do think they should stop treating them as totally seperate movies and allow the Brotherhood to win once. I really think there should be an Empire Strikes Back element. This would have been a perfect time to let them be successful.

http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/299/5329/640/DSC_0006.0.jpg

Check this out.

http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/299/5329/640/DSC_0006.0.jpg

Check this out.
and having her do that would've been better than the flash of light and there she is..

http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/299/5329/640/DSC_0006.0.jpg

Check this out.
I used to have that comic.
Damn leaky attics!!

As for cyclops, there's definitely the possibility he's still alive. We never got to see him die, we only infer that because of what Jean does to Prof X later. Remember, he's not got his glasses, so he'll be blind. Which would make it tough to find one's way out of that forest. And he wouldn't know that Prof X was dead, thus no-one to use cerebus to help locate him. So he would first prob stay there, assuming the Prof would locate him. Hence we don't see him the rest of the movie.

Don't you think Xavier would have tried to look for him that way during the time that Jean was under?

They changed some pretty big things from the comic as well. The Phoenix was not a by product of some split personality, it was the manifestation of a cosmic being,

To be fair, the Phoenix Saga has been done multiple times, and was different each time. Sometimes Jean was in suspended animation the whole time and the Phoenix just took her place. Sometimes it was another entity bound to her. Sometimes it was an entity that was a part of her - one that she eventually learned to control. It's been done at least three different ways in the comic and another way in the cartoon. Changing it for the movie was pretty much par for the course.

They never even hinted at the fact that Juggernaut and Xavier are related at all, which is just failing at what could have been some great banter or quips.

Perhaps they are going with one of the universes in which Xavier and Juggernaut actually aren't related.

Ooh, I have been waiting for a chance to use this (http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/turb/wolv.gif) smilie!

Don't you think Xavier would have tried to look for him that way during the time that Jean was under?
True, though he was totally wrapped up in trying to save Jean, so maybe had not the mental strength to do both. He was shown up to be quite arrogant in this movie, so maybe he just made the assumption Cyclops was dead and so didn't bother making the effort. He certainly let him go easily enough - he wasn't shown even trying to help him get over Jean, just offered the leadership to Storm.
Also, maybe Phoenix was blocking Xavier from locating him.

Anyway, it was just a premise they could use to bring him back. If they make a IV. And I hope they do - both the IV and the cyclops return.

True, though he was totally wrapped up in trying to save Jean, so maybe had not the mental strength to do both. He was shown up to be quite arrogant in this movie, so maybe he just made the assumption Cyclops was dead and so didn't bother making the effort. He certainly let him go easily enough - he wasn't shown even trying to help him get over Jean, just offered the leadership to Storm.
Also, maybe Phoenix was blocking Xavier from locating him.

Anyway, it was just a premise they could use to bring him back. If they make a IV. And I hope they do - both the IV and the cyclops return.

Meh. Cyclops has always been my least favorite character anyways. =)

Meh. Cyclops has always been my least favorite character anyways. =)
True. I never really liked him either. But I just feel it was a crappy way to kill off the longest serving X-Man (comic-wise)

SPOILER WARNING!



I just saw this movie today, a Matinee, and I gotta say, there was some part of the movie I liked, and some part of the movie I hated.

Like: We get to meet the Juggernaut bitch!
Some new mutants
It had R. Lee Ermey in it, always a good thing.
It had Patrick Stewart in it, always a good thing too!
We finally get to see Jean transform into the Phoniex.

Didn't like:
Charles died in the hand of Jean (Phoniex)
The Phoniex died, I think she died in the comic too, but in the comic didn't she scarafice herself, or was that in the early 90's TV show?
Rogue got rid of her powers for a boy (although I do have to admit, her powers were pretty much useless)
Scott died
Magneto got his powers taken away

What was up with the ending though, I mean Charles comes back in the body of that coma coste guy, However, I thought X-Men 3 was susspose to be the last one in the series, I mean where do they go from here? Charles comes back but in a new body, Scott, Jean and Rogue are gone, and so is Magneto, and Mystique.

Perhaps they are going with one of the universes in which Xavier and Juggernaut actually aren't related.

That still leaves the fact that the Juggernaut is not a mutant (or at least does not derive his power from an X-gene). Which means the boys powers/the cure should not be able to influence him.

Edit: and that he does not need to pee. But I will forgive that in the name of comedy.

That still leaves the fact that the Juggernaut is not a mutant (or at least does not derive his power from an X-gene). Which means the boys powers/the cure should not be able to influence him.

Edit: and that he does not need to pee. But I will forgive that in the name of comedy.

What do you mean he's not a mutant?

That still leaves the fact that the Juggernaut is not a mutant (or at least does not derive his power from an X-gene). Which means the boys powers/the cure should not be able to influence him.

Edit: and that he does not need to pee. But I will forgive that in the name of comedy.

Yeah, I said the same thing during the movie. What's the doesn't need to pee thing, though? Why wouldn't he need to pee?

What do you mean he's not a mutant?

He gets his power from the helmet if I remember correctly.

He gets his power from the helmet if I remember correctly.

Then why did the guard needed to restrain him in the truck?

Then why did the guard needed to restrain him in the truck?

I looked it up. His power is actually from a mystical ruby that he found when with Charles (his brother-in-law). it has nothing to do with the helmet. I think in the comic it was like Magneto's helmet, to protect him from mind control, but I'm not sure (confirmed). He is not a mutant though, and that is part of his distrust of Xavier.

Also, I found out he does not need to eat, drink or breath so he wouldn't need to pee.


SPOILER

As far as all those characters losing their power in the movie at the end you see Magneto slightly wiggle a chess piece, so the powers are coming back.

I looked it up. His power is actually from a mystical ruby that he found when with Charles (his brother-in-law). it has nothing to do with the helmet. I think in the comic it was like Magneto's helmet, to protect him from mind control, but I'm not sure. He is not a mutant though, and that is part of his distrust of Xavier.

ahh. Was it me, or was it stupid that Rogue gave up her powers for a boy? Jeez.

ahh. Was it me, or was it stupid that Rogue gave up her powers for a boy? Jeez.

To be fair, she was struggling with not being able to touch others well before that boy was in the picture.

Of course, I have all ideas that the "cure" will turn out to be less-than-permanent.

To be fair, she was struggling with not being able to touch others well before that boy was in the picture.

Of course, I have all ideas that the "cure" will turn out to be less-than-permanent.

They showed that right at the end. Didn't you see the part where Magneto wiggled the chess piece?

They showed that right at the end. Didn't you see the part where Magneto wiggled the chess piece?

I saw his hand over the chess piece, but I must have blinked if it actually moved.

X3 was a pretty good movie I thought I just thought it was BS how Pheniox killed everyone that she did. Total BS. I think that they could have made it were Rouge could fly and gave Angel more of a part. Oh and where was night crawler?!!!!!!!!!! He is in the game but wasn't in the movie WTF!!!!!!! But I thought it was good. And at the end when Magneto moved the piece was BS he got hit with 4 cures man BS.

Okay, keep in mind that there were significant problems with the last two X-men movies. The first one dragged on interminably, and both movies essentially reduced Rogue to Jubilee, which is not cool. Not cool at all.

That being said, I thought that this one was mediocre, and could have really stood for some expansion: when the closest you've got to character development is Dawson's Creek on Ice, something has gone horribly, tragically wrong no matter what movie you're in. Given how much development Singer gave the X-men in the last two movies, this was simply unpardonable.

What amplifies this problem is that you've got some really great stories buried in here, but Ratner keeps right on whisking by them. The duality of good and evil in Jean/Phoenix is a potentially great story, but is overlooked with a brief bit of exposition. The conflict between Magneto and Xavier is also given the short shrift, especially in the latent racism of Magneto's message. It's a tribute to Stewart and McKellan that they excelled so well at doing so much with so little. Rogue's story is given the most emphasis, but it's reduced to a few cliches like "Oh, you're a guy. Of course all you think about is physical attraction." Meanwhile, Angel gets reduced to just a lame cameo, a pathetic treatment of one of the original X-men.

In exchange, we get some really great action sequences, and to be fair, they are great action sequences that I've been waiting for some time to see. The fastball special, for instance, and the fight scenes were exhilirating. Ultimately, however, they were a bit empty: unlike Jean's "death" at the end of the last movie, all those piles of dead mutants (which was another thing: they had some damn good mutants that apparently existed only to get hosed. Psylocke, for instance, springs readily to mind) didn't seem to matter at all. I couldn't even get the cheap thrill of cheering when that sissy Cyclops bit it.

Ultimately, I think my reaction seems more hostile than it is. It was a good afternoon flick. It kept me watching for two hours. My problem is ultimately that I care about these characters. I cared about Jean. I cared about Xavier. I cared about Magneto. I like these guys, and after watching quality movies like X2, the Spiderman movies, and Batman Begins, I've come to expect the director to have an attachment to them too. I didn't get the sense that Ratner really cared about the X-men so much as he cared about making them look good while they blew a crapload of stuff up.

For the price of admission, you buy a copy of the comic book, cut pictures out...and make popsicle puppets out of them.

That way you can be as liberal with the storyline and the characters as the movie was.

Okay, keep in mind that there were significant problems with the last two X-men movies. The first one dragged on interminably, and both movies essentially reduced Rogue to Jubilee, which is not cool. Not cool at all.

That being said, I thought that this one was mediocre, and could have really stood for some expansion: when the closest you've got to character development is Dawson's Creek on Ice, something has gone horribly, tragically wrong no matter what movie you're in. Given how much development Singer gave the X-men in the last two movies, this was simply unpardonable.

What amplifies this problem is that you've got some really great stories buried in here, but Ratner keeps right on whisking by them. The duality of good and evil in Jean/Phoenix is a potentially great story, but is overlooked with a brief bit of exposition. The conflict between Magneto and Xavier is also given the short shrift, especially in the latent racism of Magneto's message. It's a tribute to Stewart and McKellan that they excelled so well at doing so much with so little. Rogue's story is given the most emphasis, but it's reduced to a few cliches like "Oh, you're a guy. Of course all you think about is physical attraction." Meanwhile, Angel gets reduced to just a lame cameo, a pathetic treatment of one of the original X-men.

In exchange, we get some really great action sequences, and to be fair, they are great action sequences that I've been waiting for some time to see. The fastball special, for instance, and the fight scenes were exhilirating. Ultimately, however, they were a bit empty: unlike Jean's "death" at the end of the last movie, all those piles of dead mutants (which was another thing: they had some damn good mutants that apparently existed only to get hosed. Psylocke, for instance, springs readily to mind) didn't seem to matter at all. I couldn't even get the cheap thrill of cheering when that sissy Cyclops bit it.

Ultimately, I think my reaction seems more hostile than it is. It was a good afternoon flick. It kept me watching for two hours. My problem is ultimately that I care about these characters. I cared about Jean. I cared about Xavier. I cared about Magneto. I like these guys, and after watching quality movies like X2, the Spiderman movies, and Batman Begins, I've come to expect the director to have an attachment to them too. I didn't get the sense that Ratner really cared about the X-men so much as he cared about making them look good while they blew a crapload of stuff up.

You do have to keep in mind that they used diffrent directors for X3 than they did for X1 and X2.

For the price of admission, you buy a copy of the comic book, cut pictures out...and make popsicle puppets out of them.

That way you can be as liberal with the storyline and the characters as the movie was.
or write fan fiction. I'm sure people would read them.

*SPOILER*



Professor Xavier is not dead. Presumably they transferred his mind into the body of a dead man. He was telling some of his students about the "ethical questions" like this early in the movie, remember...

I looked it up. His power is actually from a mystical ruby that he found when with Charles (his brother-in-law). it has nothing to do with the helmet. I think in the comic it was like Magneto's helmet, to protect him from mind control, but I'm not sure (confirmed). He is not a mutant though, and that is part of his distrust of Xavier.

Also, I found out he does not need to eat, drink or breath so he wouldn't need to pee.

It is probably this sort of thing that led to changing his powers to mutation. The movies have shied away from the magical aspects in the comic. Come to think of it, most comics that have been adapted for the screen have shied away from the magical.

I looked it up. His power is actually from a mystical ruby that he found when with Charles (his brother-in-law). it has nothing to do with the helmet. I think in the comic it was like Magneto's helmet, to protect him from mind control, but I'm not sure (confirmed). He is not a mutant though, and that is part of his distrust of Xavier.

Also, I found out he does not need to eat, drink or breath so he wouldn't need to pee. .
Nearly right. They're step-brothers and (donning my X-Men pedant hat here), the reason Cain (Jugger's real name) hates Xavier so much was because Xavier was always much better at everything when they were growing up. Their father was a violent man who used to beat Cain because of this. One day, Xavier accidently read his mind during a beating, and Cain realised this.
Ever since then, he hated Xavier.
Also the ruby was cursed, so it gave immense power but it corrupted the person's mind. So Cain's hate of Xavier became extreme after he found it (during the Korean war it was, too).

How's that for geekdom?
I haven't read an X-Men comic in years yet still can remember pretty much everything about them.

It is probably this sort of thing that led to changing his powers to mutation. The movies have shied away from the magical aspects in the comic. Come to think of it, most comics that have been adapted for the screen have shied away from the magical.Almost certainly a good idea.

Nearly right. They're step-brothers and (donning my X-Men pedant hat here), the reason Cain (Jugger's real name) hates Xavier so much was because Xavier was always much better at everything when they were growing up. Their father was a violent man who used to beat Cain because of this. One day, Xavier accidently read his mind during a beating, and Cain realised this.
Ever since then, he hated Xavier.
Also the ruby was cursed, so it gave immense power but it corrupted the person's mind. So Cain's hate of Xavier became extreme after he found it (during the Korean war it was, too).

How's that for geekdom?
I haven't read an X-Men comic in years yet still can remember pretty much everything about them.
Yeah, I meant to say step-brother. And it wasn't their father. It was Cain's father. Cain Marko. Different last names. The final straw was when Cain found out that Charles was exceling at everything because he was a mutant.

Nearly right. They're step-brothers and (donning my X-Men pedant hat here), the reason Cain (Jugger's real name) hates Xavier so much was because Xavier was always much better at everything when they were growing up. Their father was a violent man who used to beat Cain because of this. One day, Xavier accidently read his mind during a beating, and Cain realised this.
Ever since then, he hated Xavier.
Also the ruby was cursed, so it gave immense power but it corrupted the person's mind. So Cain's hate of Xavier became extreme after he found it (during the Korean war it was, too).

How's that for geekdom?
I haven't read an X-Men comic in years yet still can remember pretty much everything about them.close. there was also the fact that the Wealth was tied to the Mother (via first marriage), thus when she died, she left everything to Xavier.

Charles and Cain were in Vietnam when Cain discovered half of the gem and became the Juggernaut.

It is probably this sort of thing that led to changing his powers to mutation. The movies have shied away from the magical aspects in the comic. Come to think of it, most comics that have been adapted for the screen have shied away from the magical.

Probably that, and the fact that the "magical" Juggernaut simply is too powerful. Unless there was more than one Juggernaut (the power can be shared- but if two Juggernauts exist their combined power is less than that of an unique one) - he would be literally unstoppable. In the comics the guy has walked through mountains.

But now I am delving too deep into the Marvel universe ;)

Probably that, and the fact that the "magical" Juggernaut simply is too powerful. Unless there was more than one Juggernaut (the power can be shared- but if two Juggernauts exist their combined power is less than that of an unique one) - he would be literally unstoppable. In the comics the guy has walked through mountains.

But now I am delving too deep into the Marvel universe ;)
hehehe...just remembering the battle between Juggy and the Dazzler.

That was one of my favorite comics.

hehehe...just remembering the battle between Juggy and the Dazzler.

That was one of my favorite comics.
I like the one between Juggernaut and Spiderman.
Spiderman drives a tanker full of fuel right at him and he just stands there. Spidey jumps out of the way just as it explodes and then is full of horror at what he's done, thinking he's killed him. This turns to a different sort of horror when Juggernaut simply walks through the destruction and Spidey realises there's nothing he can do to stop him.

I like the one between Juggernaut and Spiderman.
Spiderman drives a tanker full of fuel right at him and he just stands there. Spidey jumps out of the way just as it explodes and then is full of horror at what he's done, thinking he's killed him. This turns to a different sort of horror when Juggernaut simply walks through the destruction and Spidey realises there's nothing he can do to stop him.
Juggy vs Dazzler. Dazzler and Psylocke attempt to stop Juggernaut's rampage as the cops try to arrest him (in britian no less). Psylocke's psychic strength is gauged when she actually hurts Juggy through his helmet.

after a while, it's Dazzler's last stand on a lone hilltop. she uses every erg of energy in one final laser and collapes at Juggy's feet... much to his dismay. Why? because Juggernaut is Dazzler's biggest fan. He picked her up and dropped her off at the local hospital and left. :D

then there was Excalibur vs Juggernaught.
Capt Britan hits Juggernaut in the face (no helmet)
Juggy: Nice hit, I think I migh've felt that... Nice tights... you the local superhero here?
Capt Britian: It is my job to re apprehend you.
Juggy: you can try, but aint goin happen.
CB: give me your best shot...
*long panel and shot of CB flying backwards...*

Phoenix: Hiya... my name's Phoenix... Guess what I do... :D
Juggy: Oh Shiiiii... [thud.]