NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=31615

Two adult Saudis get on a school bus in black trenchcoats in 80 degree weather, and say they're from Morocco instead of Saudi Arabia, even when asked by investigators.

I seem to recall 19 other men in the past who made dry runs on airliners, half of whom had student visas.

Looks like schoolchildren are on the terrorist menu today.

The guy's aren't terrorists. They have no proof except the fact the guys are Saudi's and yet they are still in jail:( . What kind of incompetent terrorist needs to dry run blowing up a shoolbus? Walk on, pull string, blow up.Done.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=31615

Two adult Saudis get on a school bus in black trenchcoats in 80 degree weather, and say they're from Morocco instead of Saudi Arabia, even when asked by investigators.

I seem to recall 19 other men in the past who made dry runs on airliners, half of whom had student visas.

Looks like schoolchildren are on the terrorist menu today.

Terrorist dry run. I think both guys were arressted and their apartments searched, nothing found.

They might have just tried to avoid being huge suspects, as I can imagine Saudis would be. If that's the case, I think it backfired. Then again, it's about as reasonable as many of Bush' speeches...

I think both guys were arressted and their apartments searched, nothing found.

I just realised: I'm a terrorist. Excuse me, while I contact the police and let them know there is no evidence whatsoever implicating me in planning or carrying out acts of terrorism so that I may be removed from society for everyone's safety.

No one finds it suspicious that they were wearing Trench Coats in 80 degree weather? That's not trench coat weather people!

I just realised: I'm a terrorist. Excuse me, while I contact the police and let them know there is no evidence whatsoever implicating me in planning or carrying out acts of terrorism so that I may be removed from society for everyone's safety.

It's a dry run. Things are in their favor because they are gauging reactions to their presence, and they had the sense of mind to get rid of all their Pro-OBL propaganda.

Unless, of course, they are just messing with Americans.

No one finds it suspicious that they were wearing Trench Coats in 80 degree weather? That's not trench coat weather people!

Some guys dress up in skirts in winter and yet... a distinct lack of transvestites in prison. It might be trenchcoat weather in Morocco.

Liasia']Some guys dress up in skirts in winter and yet... a distinct lack of transvestites in prison. It might be trenchcoat weather in Morocco.

Where they weren't from BTW on a school bus they didn't belong on.

Where they weren't from BTW on a school bus they didn't belong on.

People make mistakes. It doesn't make them a terrorist, i mean jesus ive done some pretty stupid things before (got on private buses, the wrong train etc). Difference is, i'm not black/darker skinned, so it's ok;)

I'm glad they got arrested and I hope they keep them long enough to make sure. There is no reason I can imagine why two men would get on a school bus when their children are not on it. Okay, so they're not terrorsits. Maybe they just wanted to fondle the school children.


Personally, I think they're terrorists.

Liasia']Some guys dress up in skirts in winter and yet... a distinct lack of transvestites in prison. It might be trenchcoat weather in Morocco.

I doubt that it's trench coat weather anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere.

I think its safe to expect all sorts of tests of how we react and the squabbling, second guess and hand sitting that follows.


I also think that the next effort to attack us will be in our schools- that will be far more terrifying and disruptive than 9/11.

They said they were from Morocco, so send them there immediately. Let them talk their way out of it there. See how well they do.

Here is another instance where racial profiling is clearly needed. These guys were up to something and I doubt it was anything good. Trenchcoats can cover a number of things. Weren't the delinquents that shot up Columbine wearing trenchcoats?

I doubt that it's trench coat weather anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere.

Still. trenchcoat=/= evil. Though they are bloody expensive.

Here is another instance where racial profiling is clearly needed. These guys were up to something and I doubt it was anything good. Trenchcoats can cover a number of things. Weren't the delinquents that shot up Columbine wearing trenchcoats?

How would racial profiling stop columbine? Maybe clothing profiling... or more gun control. But of course gun control is teh evils, so meh.

Liasia']Still. trenchcoat=/= evil. Though they are bloody expensive.

and yet, in 80 degree weather, they were wearing trench coats. Something doesn't add up there. Also, trench coats can hide alotta things like bomb, and guns etc.

Liasia']How would racial profiling stop columbine? Maybe clothing profiling... or more gun control. But of course gun control is teh evils, so meh.
My favorite solution to both airline and school bus hijacking is to arm the driver. More guns means safer transportation.

They were Middle Eastern men so they must be terrorists. I've seen people wearing clothing that doesn't fit the weather at all. That doesn't mean they are planning on blowing something up. The article said they wanted to check the English programs at the school right? They are only guilty of stupidity since it seems there isn't a shred of evidence they were planning anything.

My favorite solution to both airline and school bus hijacking is to arm the driver. More guns means safer transportation.

Unless of course there is an accident, the driver isn't particularily reliable, he gets overpowered. But if you want to live in fear on every journey and time you wear heavy clothing on a bus, fine. Although i guess you already do.

and yet, in 80 degree weather, they were wearing trench coats. Something doesn't add up there. Also, trench coats can hide alotta things like bomb, and guns etc.

And an enourmous shlong. Does that count as a WMD?

Liasia']Unless of course there is an accident, the driver isn't particularily reliable, he gets overpowered. But if you want to live in fear on every journey and time you wear heavy clothing on a bus, fine. Although i guess you already do.
You mistake caution for fear.

Liasia']And an enourmous shlong. Does that count as a WMD?

Stop looking at porn! :p

You mistake caution for fear.
Seems the level of caution which requires you to arm all public transportation officials is a bit extreme. They cause enough trouble without guns, for god's sake.

Well define terrorism. If you call wanting to kill some high school kids terrorism then probably. But it may have nothing to do with OBL propaganda. Columbine didnt. How did they get on the bus anyway?

Stop looking at porn! :p

Make me!

Liasia']Seems the level of caution which requires you to arm all public transportation officials is a bit extreme. They cause enough trouble without guns, for god's sake.

I wonder how many bus drivers have criminal records? Regardless, I ride the bus often and there are most definately some drivers I would not want to give a weapon to. I'd be afraid for MY saftey.

lol, They go to the school I went to. At any rate, they were speaking arabic so they must be terrorists right? Im just wondering, is there a law against wearing trenchcoats or is a more of a no white after labor day thing?

I wonder how many bus drivers have criminal records? Regardless, I ride the bus often and there are most definately some drivers I would not want to give a weapon to. I'd be afraid for MY saftey.
Not that I'm in favor of arming the drivers, but this was a school bus. I certainly hope there was some kind of background check before hiring the driver.

They were Middle Eastern men so they must be terrorists. I've seen people wearing clothing that doesn't fit the weather at all. That doesn't mean they are planning on blowing something up. The article said they wanted to check the English programs at the school right? They are only guilty of stupidity since it seems there isn't a shred of evidence they were planning anything.
I posted b4 reading this. You basically said everything I was thinking, but I swear I didnt copy you:fluffle:

They were dressed suspiciously and behaved suspiciously. They should have been arrested. If they are just a couple of ordinary idiots they should be released, but it would be stupid to ignore suspicious activity just to be PC.

They were dressed suspiciously and behaved suspiciously. They should have been arrested. If they are just a couple of ordinary idiots they should be released, but it would be stupid to ignore suspicious activity just to be PC.
;)

Sounds to me like some guys new to the country, used to a lot warmer climate didn't realise they weren't allowed on a school bus. I mean, come on! If terrorists were planning suicide attacks on school buses, which adults apparently aren't allowed on, would they do a dummy run in which there presence would be automatically regarded as suspicious and result in a complete background check?

Sounds to me like some guys new to the country, used to a lot warmer climate didn't realise they weren't allowed on a school bus. I mean, come on! If terrorists were planning suicide attacks on school buses, which adults apparently aren't allowed on, would they do a dummy run in which there presence would be automatically regarded as suspicious and result in a complete background check?
They've been here for six months. They were used to the climate. They also had to have seen that they were the only adults on the bus. I don't buy it.

No one finds it suspicious that they were wearing Trench Coats in 80 degree weather? That's not trench coat weather people!
Suprisingly enough, the best clothing to avoid heat is long, loose, and dark. Guess what trenchcoats are.

They've been here for six months. They were used to the climate. They also had to have seen that they were the only adults on the bus. I don't buy it.
If they keep going out in warm clothes they'll never get used to the climate.

I fail to see how these men did anything that warranted arrest. I guess since they are Middle Eastern it is okay to automatically assume that they were terrorists out for the blood of children. The trench coats are an obvious sign that they were up to no good right? There couldnt be any other reason. It's not like terrorists are sophisticated enough to know the laws or be able to learn how to fly a plane and pull off a quadruple highjacking all at the same time.

They were dressed suspiciously and behaved suspiciously. They should have been arrested. If they are just a couple of ordinary idiots they should be released, but it would be stupid to ignore suspicious activity just to be PC.

Wow. Do anything that others consider to be suspicious and get arrested. Hate to think that is where America is heading. Wouldn't want to do anything the slightest bit odd or the cops might come to arrest me.

Of course I'm not Middle Eastern or African American so I don't have as much to fear.

They were dressed suspiciously and behaved suspiciously. They should have been arrested. If they are just a couple of ordinary idiots they should be released, but it would be stupid to ignore suspicious activity just to be PC.

I agree, but I don't think they should be treated any differently than they would be if they were white or black and did the same suspicious thing. I don't think they ought to be kept in jail now that nothing has been found unless white men would also still be in jail. We can't go around treating people as if they are more suspicious due to their skin color...

I fail to see how these men did anything that warranted arrest.

Any adult who gets on a school bus (and doesn't have children on that bus) should be arrested. That's suspicious behavior, to me. Maybe not necessarily suspicion of terrorism, but definitely suspicious...

Without respect for civil rights, our safety means nothing.

They were Middle Eastern men so they must be terrorists. I've seen people wearing clothing that doesn't fit the weather at all. That doesn't mean they are planning on blowing something up. The article said they wanted to check the English programs at the school right? They are only guilty of stupidity since it seems there isn't a shred of evidence they were planning anything.

How about the fact that they were already enrolled in English classes elsewhere?

How stupid can they be, telling investigators that they were from another country than their actual home?

And when I worked in a bank, we were told to watch out for people dressed inappropriately for the weather, such as trenchcoats in summer-they may turn out to be bank robbers. Criminals often dress inappropriately (to conceal weapons, stolen items, etc.).

Definitely a dry run, trying to see what would happen. And they were rewarded by being driven to the school before being arrested. Now they know they can get to the school and blow up the bus on campus...:mp5:


WND HOMELAND INSECURITY (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50306)
Saudis jump aboard Florida school bus
Police try to determine intent: '1 of the guys was wearing shorts with a black trench coat'
Posted: May 21, 2006
12:58 p.m. Eastern


© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com


Saudi men arrested after jumping aboard public school bus in Tampa, Fla. (courtesy WTSP-TV)

TAMPA, Fla. – Local and federal authorities are trying to determine the real reason two Saudi men jumped aboard a local school bus on Friday, alarming students as well as education officials.

Mana Saleh Almanajam, 23, and Shaker Mohsen Alsidran, 20, were immediately taken into custody when the bus arrived at Wharton High School, and they are being charged with trespassing on school property, and are held without bail.

"Both defendants gave several versions of the reason they took a school bus to a high school," Hillsborough County sheriff's spokesman J.D. Callaway told the Tampa Tribune, noting the pair seemed cagey and evasive as they answered questions. "They said they wanted to go to Wharton to look around, and then they said they wanted to go there to have some fun, and then they said they wanted to enroll in the English classes there."

Sgt. Mike Klingebiel, a spokesman for the University of South Florida Police Department, said [b]the two have been enrolled at the English Language Institute at USF since January, having come to America six months ago on student visas./b] He told the Times the men are taking the language classes to help them qualify to enroll as full-time college students.

How about the fact that they were already enrolled in English classes elsewhere?

How stupid can they be, telling investigators that they were from another country than their actual home?

And when I worked in a bank, we were told to watch out for people dressed inappropriately for the weather, such as trenchcoats in summer-they may turn out to be bank robbers. Criminals often dress inappropriately (to conceal weapons, stolen items, etc.).

Definitely a dry run, trying to see what would happen. And they were rewarded by being driven to the school before being arrested. Now they know they can get to the school and blow up the bus on campus...:mp5:

So they are stupid. There is no proof they were doing a "dry run." One would think a dry run wouldn't be done in such a manner, the trenchcoat does stand out.

I immediately dislike that story posted as it contends that "police are trying to find the real reason they got on the bus". Where is the objectivity? Is the article assuming that the police are correct and that the men were lying? Complete bias.

Wow. Do anything that others consider to be suspicious and get arrested. Hate to think that is where America is heading. Wouldn't want to do anything the slightest bit odd or the cops might come to arrest me.

Of course I'm not Middle Eastern or African American so I don't have as much to fear.

Though I've never been arrested, I have been stopped & questioned for "suspicious" activity. I was walking in my neighborhood wearing a ski-mask. It was a cold winter day, but apparently there had been a number of ski-masked burglars in the area. The cop just asked me a few questions, I answered, and he was satisfied. Of course, this was long before 911, and I'm not Middle Eastern or "African American" either, but I think the cop was right to question me.

oh noes!!!1!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/23/national/main1647912.shtml

2 Saudi School Bus Riders Out Of Jail
Judge Decided The Pair Did Not Pose A Security Threat

(AP) Two Saudi men detained after boarding a school bus full of students were released from jail Tuesday after federal officials determined they do not pose a security threat.

Through an interpreter, Mana Saleh Almanajam, 23, and Shaker Mohsen Alsidran, 20, told investigators that they got on the bus Friday morning because they wanted to visit the school and did not know it was just for students.

At the time, the men gave conflicting reasons why they boarded the bus bound for Wharton High School. But detectives later determined they meant no harm, and immigration agents found that they were here legally.

The two men arrived in the country six months ago on student visas and are enrolled at the English Language Institute at the University of South Florida, officials said.

Investigators said they boarded the school bus Friday, sat down and began speaking in Arabic. Their behavior concerned the driver, a substitute, who alerted the school district.

They were charged with misdemeanor trespassing and were jailed after a judge said Saturday she wanted more background information on them. They were released Tuesday on their promise to return to court later.

I immediately dislike that story posted as it contends that "police are trying to find the real reason they got on the bus". Where is the objectivity? Is the article assuming that the police are correct and that the men were lying? Complete bias.

The article also states that each man gave several reasons why they were on the bus. So, the police were trying to figure out which of the stories was a lie, if one was the truth or if the truth was something else altogher...

oh noes!!!1!

.

Though I've never been arrested, I have been stopped & questioned for "suspicious" activity. I was walking in my neighborhood wearing a ski-mask. It was a cold winter day, but apparently there had been a number of ski-masked burglars in the area. The cop just asked me a few questions, I answered, and he was satisfied. Of course, this was long before 911, and I'm not Middle Eastern or "African American" either, but I think the cop was right to question me.

Sure, questioned. Much different than being taken into custody. Of course those who are questioned are typically of a certain skin color.

I agree, but I don't think they should be treated any differently than they would be if they were white or black and did the same suspicious thing. I don't think they ought to be kept in jail now that nothing has been found unless white men would also still be in jail. We can't go around treating people as if they are more suspicious due to their skin color...



Any adult who gets on a school bus (and doesn't have children on that bus) should be arrested. That's suspicious behavior, to me. Maybe not necessarily suspicion of terrorism, but definitely suspicious...

Without respect for civil rights, our safety means nothing.

Did I read one had on the trench coat AND shorts?

There is no reason I can imagine why two men would get on a school bus when their children are not on it.

was it a big yellow school bus, or a regular looking bus that happened to be on the high school route?

Did I read one had on the trench coat AND shorts?

Yes, but why and quote me??? :confused:

The trench coats definitely imply, to me, that something weird was happening (beyond the fact that they were on the school bus in the first place) but the trench coats/shorts combination still doesn't prove they're terrorists. Or am I missing something?

Did I read one had on the trench coat AND shorts?

maybe. but on the other hand, there were all sorts of reports that jean charles de menezes was wearing some sort of bright yellow parka as he drove his sled dogs to the subway in london, and he turned out to be wearing a jean jacket.

maybe. but on the other hand, there were all sorts of reports that jean charles de menezes was wearing some sort of bright yellow parka as he drove his sled dogs to the subway in london, and he turned out to be wearing a jean jacket.

Rumours which were heartily encouraged by the cops and probably started by them in the first place.

Rumours which were heartily encouraged by the cops and probably started by them in the first place.

well we wouldn't want it to look as if people went round being paranoid for absolutely no reason at all, would we?

was it a big yellow school bus, or a regular looking bus that happened to be on the high school route?
Tey didn't have a picture of it in the article, but it was full of children with backpacks and school supplies and lunch bags and I'm sure it was just like every other school bus I've ever seen. It was probably also not at a bus stop that normal buses stop at and there were probably dozens of children standing around for a while waiting for the bus.

Tey didn't have a picture of it in the article, but it was full of children with backpacks and school supplies and lunch bags and I'm sure it was just like every other school bus I've ever seen. It was probably also not at a bus stop that normal buses stop at and there were probably dozens of children standing around for a while waiting for the bus.

they were high school students. where i come from, that means the bus looks like every other public bus in the city. i don't know how they run things in tampa, but it seems unlikely to me that they make high schoolers ride yellow buses to and from school.

No one finds it suspicious that they were wearing Trench Coats in 80 degree weather? That's not trench coat weather people!

Doesn't Nailitr like to wear a trenchcoats?

they were high school students. where i come from, that means the bus looks like every other public bus in the city. i don't know how they run things in tampa, but it seems unlikely to me that they make high schoolers ride yellow buses to and from school.
I don't knwo where you live, but in California and Nevada all school buses are yellow. I've never seen a school bus that looks like a public bus. I beleive it to be illegal not to clearly mark a schoolbus as a schoolbus. In anycase, if these guys were white woud you be sticking up for them? NO, you'd be saying, "throw those pervert child molesters in jail!"

The guys were let go. I believe that what the cops did was perfectly appropriate. If I ever get onto a school bus I expect to get arrested.

they were high school students. where i come from, that means the bus looks like every other public bus in the city. i don't know how they run things in tampa, but it seems unlikely to me that they make high schoolers ride yellow buses to and from school.

In PA, if a school district owns or rents "yellow buses" all the kids ride on them, elementary, intermediate, middle and high school kids. I've never heard of what you're describing.

Now, I believe that the kids in the Pittsburgh city school district (of all ages) ride the city buses, with whomever else might be riding PAT. (That could be just the magnet school kids, though. )

In anycase, if these guys were white woud you be sticking up for them? NO, you'd be saying, "throw those pervert child molesters in jail!"

child molesters? 20 and 23 year old guys on a bus full of high schoolers? come on now, you're just reaching.

and my answer still depends on what the bus looks like, and the grasp of english (not to mention the cultural norms of the area) these hypothetical white guys have.

I've never heard of what you're describing.

really? it's quite common in places with actual bus lines already, since it saves large amounts of money.

child molesters? 20 and 23 year old guys on a bus full of high schoolers? come on now, you're just reaching.


A 23-year-old with a high schooler is molestation. A 20-year-old is reaching, but not the 23-year-old.

It may have been an innocent mistake. I, personally, don't buy it, but we'll give you "innocent mistake". In any case, they've been let go. They did something, in your situation unknowingly, that seemed suspicious to the authorities. They were apprehended, questioned, investigated and ultimately let go, in a timely manner. What's the problem? Let's not ever question or arrest anyone who does something suspicious because they might not have known better?

really? it's quite common in places with actual bus lines already, since it saves large amounts of money.

You mean the kids ride the actual public transportation? I've heard of that (like I said, it happens in my own city) but not that some of the port authority buses are completely "school buses", which this bus was. Strictly a school bus. Not a public bus with schoolchildren on it.

A 23-year-old with a high schooler is molestation.

no it isn't (http://www.ageofconsent.com/florida.htm).

child molesters? 20 and 23 year old guys on a bus full of high schoolers? come on now, you're just reaching.

and my answer still depends on what the bus looks like, and the grasp of english (not to mention the cultural norms of the area) these hypothetical white guys have.

Whatever. If two adults of any shape, color or size gets on a school bus they should be arrested.

There are buslines all over California and Nevada and all of our school buses are still yellow. The reason why most people think of school buses as being big yellow buses is because most school buses are big yellow buses. And that was only part of my point. The bus probably did not stop at a normal bus stop, but in some neighborhood school bus stop with dozens of kids hanging out with backpacks and school books and lunch bags and school supplies. This smells bad and if you don't smell it, take the PC out of your nose and take a whiff.

A 23-year-old with a high schooler is molestation
no it isn't (http://www.ageofconsent.com/florida.htm).


Okay, a 23 year old with some high schoolers is molestation, and it should be with all high schoolers.

Strictly a school bus. Not a public bus with schoolchildren on it.

then i take it you have found a picture of the bus in question or some relevant article about busing for wharton high school?

then i take it you have found a picture of the bus in question or some relevant article about busing for wharton high school?
Here's a picture of a school bus taken from an article entitled "Florida School Bus Driver Sves Childs Life.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/3125/art/bus_brd.gif
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/3125/fp9905.htm

then i take it you have found a picture of the bus in question or some relevant article about busing for wharton high school?

No, but if it were a public bus that school children were being transported on, I am presuming the newspaper articles would have said that, not called it a school bus. There is a big difference. (If it were a regular port authority bus that happened to be transporting schoolchildren as well as other citizens, I'd understand your position, for what that's worth. But if it were a regular port authority bus full of high schoolers and nobody else, these guys were suspicious for not getting right back off.)

Maybe I'm giving the press too much credit, though.

then i take it you have found a picture of the bus in question or some relevant article about busing for wharton high school?
Here's a page from some Miami tourist info site.

http://www.luxurymiamirealestate.com/Mortgage/Refinance.aspx

And the picture of a school bus from it.

http://www.luxurymiamirealestate.com/images/starterimages/school_bus1.gif

Here's a picture of a clown that races school buses in Orlando.

http://www.worldsfastestclown.com/images/bus.gif

And here's the page that shows a bunch of other school buses racing in Florida.

http://www.worldsfastestclown.com/bus.html

But if it were a regular port authority bus full of high schoolers and nobody else, these guys were suspicious for not getting right back off

they were allowed on by the driver, and apparently needed a translator to properly communicate with authorities.

btw, port authority? what's a port authority doing running buses?

...

so you've got nothing then, yeah?

so you've got nothing then, yeah?
I've got all I need. Clearly school buses in Florida are marked by both their color and all the other functionalities like stop signs that open up on teh side of the bus. The bus probably did not stop at a bus stop, but at a neighborhood, unmarked stop where dozens of children group everyday five days a week with school supplies, lunch bags, back packs, etc... This was very clearly not a normal bus.

That aside, these guys were detained. When they lied about where they were from and were evasive teh police arrested them. When there was nothing to charge them with they were released. How would you handle it? Before you answer that, answer it in the context of your children riding that bus to school everyday.

Clearly school buses in Florida are marked by both their color and all the other functionalities like stop signs that open up on teh side of the bus.

the elementary schools where i grew up had yellow buses. didn't stop the high schools from contracting out their busing and using regular buses while maintaining those as student only routes. hasn't stopped lots of other places either. so make with the demonstration that wharton high school uses yellow buses. or you could just hold my position and acknowledge that you don't know.

The bus probably did not stop at a bus stop, but at a neighborhood, unmarked stop where dozens of children group everyday five days a week with school supplies, lunch bags, back packs, etc... This was very clearly not a normal bus.

so it's both 'probably' and 'clearly', is it?

How would you handle it? Before you answer that, answer it in the context of your children riding that bus to school everyday.

inform them that this was a high school student only bus and direct them to a bus they could actually use? perhaps the school district might care to implement a bus pass/school ID that riders need to show? crazy, i know.

I doubt that it's trench coat weather anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere.
It would be here: 15°C and raining (including thunderstorms) for the last three days.

As for those guys - whatever they were up to...

oh noes!!!1!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/23/national/main1647912.shtml

2 Saudi School Bus Riders Out Of Jail
Judge Decided The Pair Did Not Pose A Security Threat

(AP) Two Saudi men detained after boarding a school bus full of students were released from jail Tuesday after federal officials determined they do not pose a security threat.

Through an interpreter, Mana Saleh Almanajam, 23, and Shaker Mohsen Alsidran, 20, told investigators that they got on the bus Friday morning because they wanted to visit the school and did not know it was just for students.

At the time, the men gave conflicting reasons why they boarded the bus bound for Wharton High School. But detectives later determined they meant no harm, and immigration agents found that they were here legally.

The two men arrived in the country six months ago on student visas and are enrolled at the English Language Institute at the University of South Florida, officials said.

Investigators said they boarded the school bus Friday, sat down and began speaking in Arabic. Their behavior concerned the driver, a substitute, who alerted the school district.

They were charged with misdemeanor trespassing and were jailed after a judge said Saturday she wanted more background information on them. They were released Tuesday on their promise to return to court later.

Ooh, the system works. What a surprise. :p

No one finds it suspicious that they were wearing Trench Coats in 80 degree weather? That's not trench coat weather people!
I guess we should start arresting people who wear sungless at night.

PS.
I do you schoolbus.

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBDJDFFFNE.html

This article clearly says school bus and that they were charged with trespassing on school property. It later says ""They didn't differentiate between a school bus and public transportation,"

It was probably a mistake. However, it was treated appropriately.

they were allowed on by the driver,

Do you really think the driver is going to stop them? No school bus driver I ever encountered considered his job to be security guard... If s/he didn't think it odd that they got on his/her bus s/he wouldn't have called police on them.

(Port Authority? That's who runs our public transit system... I have no idea who runs it in Florida, but I used the term because it's the best I had.)

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=31615

Two adult Saudis get on a school bus in black trenchcoats in 80 degree weather, and say they're from Morocco instead of Saudi Arabia, even when asked by investigators.

I seem to recall 19 other men in the past who made dry runs on airliners, half of whom had student visas.

Looks like schoolchildren are on the terrorist menu today.


Terrorist dry run.

And... how did they get the student visas? For what reason? aren't there English language schools in their countries?

How many more of these "students" have been let into the country by the authorities?
Paranoid... be very paranoid...


.

And... how did they get the student visas? For what reason?

.

I think that *maybe,* just maybe, they might have gotten them so that they could learn. Thats the usual reason for becoming a student.
I think that maybe the government gave them those visas. Thats the usual way of getting them.
Surely this is all just mindless scaremongering.

Wrong place, wrong time.

The tone of this thread seems to be that we should wait until a crime has been committed and then punish the perpetrators. Isn't that exactly what went wrong with all of our investigations and intelligence collection prior to September 11, 2001? It's darned hard to punish perpetrators that commit suicide during the commission of their crime.

(Port Authority? That's who runs our public transit system... I have no idea who runs it in Florida, but I used the term because it's the best I had.)

I've never heard of a "port authority" in all of my years in Florida. (Maybe because there isn't any public transportation in my area. Just school buses for students who live at least 2 miles away from their school.)
As far as I know, school buses are run by the Transportation Department.

Edit: By the way, this article (http://www.peterli.com/archive/spm/421.shtm) is about Florida schools preparing for terrorism.

The tone of this thread seems to be that we should wait until a crime has been committed and then punish the perpetrators. Isn't that exactly what went wrong with all of our investigations and intelligence collection prior to September 11, 2001? It's darned hard to punish perpetrators that commit suicide during the commission of their crime.

Yes. I might note that the same people who say, "Bush didn't do enough before 9-11" are the same people who say we should do nothing now.

Yes. I might note that the same people who say, "Bush didn't do enough before 9-11" are the same people who say we should do nothing now.
If the biggest threat to American security is two student Saudi Arabians so stupid that they get caught scouting out targets, I think you can sleep easy in your bed tonight.

I've never heard of a "port authority" in all of my years in Florida.

Port Authority = Transportation Department for this conversation. Our buses are "PAT" (Port Authority Transit, probably from way back when Pittsburgh was the gateway to the west.) Regardless of terminology, I'm saying that even if it was a normal bus, an adult getting on a bus of schoolchildren is suspect.

The tone of this thread seems to be that we should wait until a crime has been committed and then punish the perpetrators.

That's exactly what I'm saying. We can't wander around presuming people are criminals and punishing them for things they haven't done. That's a basic tenet of the American Justice system. The minute we start doing that, we're not free. We've got no liberty and we aren't Americans any longer.

These guys did something suspicious. They were arrested and let go when it was determined that they were not criminals and apparently had no criminal intent. The system worked; it did exactly what it was supposed to.

My only concern was that these men might have been treated differently based on the color of their skin or their country of origin. We can't do that. We made that mistake during WWII with our internment camps (of the Japanese) and I hope we've learned our lesson.

If not, I'm ashamed to be an American.

If the biggest threat to American security is two student Saudi Arabians so stupid that they get caught scouting out targets, I think you can sleep easy in your bed tonight.

Pre-911, student Saudi Arabians doing dry runs on airliners were spotted and REPORTED to the FBI during the Clinton Administration by several people, including the actor James Woods.

Everyone in the FBI thought as you did - that we could sleep easy in our beds.

How fucking wrong they were.

Again a situation where I'm not going to read the whole thread but I do hope it's been pointed out that eye-witness accounts can be very dodgy and just because one person said they were wearing trenchcoats does not make it so. If you remember, the "terrorist" that was shot dead on the underground last year was described as wearing a thick winter coat (people also claimed that they saw he was wearing a bomb belt, wires were coming out of his back and all manner of things)

The man shot dead on the underground was shot dead because he didn't understand the concept of "halt" "stop" "don't move" "freeze"

and any other words the police seem to have used to make it clear that continued motion of any kind would result in death.

Here in the US, we understand when a policeman with a gun pointed at someone says "don't fucking move" he means it.

Maybe you all need lessons in the UK on how not to get shot by police.

The man shot dead on the underground was shot dead because he didn't understand the concept of "halt" "stop" "don't move" "freeze"

evidence?

The man shot dead on the underground was shot dead because he didn't understand the concept of "halt" "stop" "don't move" "freeze"

You are an unashamed liar. Jean-Charles was followed by cops as walked onto a train carriage and sat down. One of the cops shouted at him and he walked forward calmly, was then slammed down into a seat and shot in the head.

The firearms officers boarded the train and challenged the suspect. According to Hotel 3, Menezes then stood up and advanced towards the officers and Hotel 3, at which point Hotel 3 grabbed him, pinned his arms against his torso, and pushed him back into the seat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_De_Menezes#Pursuit_and_shooting

Please have the decency not the use an innocent murdered man as apologism for your racism. kthxbi.

evidence?

That was the outcome of the investigation.

It's relatively common here in the US - if you move after they tell you to freeze, and your hands move in a way that the police can interpret as threatening (like into your pocket), they can shoot you dead even if no weapon is found later.

In a world of suicide bombers, this means that police in other nations will be changing their policy to be more like the US policy.

So when the police tell you to freeze and shut up, you have a choice - keep trying to exercise your assumed rights and die, or freeze and shut up.

That was the outcome of the investigation.

No, it wasn't.

The man shot dead on the underground was shot dead because he didn't understand the concept of "halt" "stop" "don't move" "freeze"

and any other words the police seem to have used to make it clear that continued motion of any kind would result in death.

Here in the US, we understand when a policeman with a gun pointed at someone says "don't fucking move" he means it.

Maybe you all need lessons in the UK on how not to get shot by police.

Yeah, that's right. he was an innocent man shot dead but obviously it was his fault for daring to use the underground as a non-white

I've never heard of a "port authority" in all of my years in Florida.

i'm sure you have one in miami, tampa, jacksonville, and pensacola, at least. it'd be in charge of their ports.

so where in florida do/have you lived? can you shed any light on whether school buses for high school students in tampa are yellow or not?

That was the outcome of the investigation.

try again

Yeah, that's right. he was an innocent man shot dead but obviously it was his fault for daring to use the underground as a non-white

You can be a completely innocent person in the US.

But if the police have any reason (even the wrong reason) to suspect that you are an immediate lethal threat, and you continue to move after they tell you to stop, they are well within their rights to shoot you dead without further discussion.

Good piece of advice - if you plan on living, and you're around police with their guns out, do what they say.

Any delay or discussion or further movement, and we'll read about how dead you are.

I also disticntly remember the head of Scotland Yard making the dry comment that in this age of suicide bombers, the policy is to shoot people who keep moving after being ordered to stop.

He made it sound as though UK people were unfamiliar with the concept.

Better get used to it.

Good piece of advice - if you plan on living, and you're around police with their guns out, do what they say.

Jean-Charles co-operated with the cops and they still murdered him, so your advice isn't that great is it?

You can be a completely innocent person in the US.

But if the police have any reason (even the wrong reason) to suspect that you are an immediate lethal threat, and you continue to move after they tell you to stop, they are well within their rights to shoot you dead without further discussion.

Good piece of advice - if you plan on living, and you're around police with their guns out, do what they say.

Any delay or discussion or further movement, and we'll read about how dead you are.

what's your point? that's an awful state of affairs

This article clearly says school bus and that they were charged with trespassing on school property. It later says ""They didn't differentiate between a school bus and public transportation"

at my high school, which used non-yellow buses, they were officially called "school buses". maybe the news intends us to read "school bus" to mean bright yellow thing, but my cultural background doesn't automatically make that connection - at least when it comes to high school students.

even if it was yellow, it certainly was merely a mistake on their part. i think the official handling of it was a little suspect, but i'm really more annoyed with the right-wing response to the incident. here and elsewhere.

...and pensacola, at least.

Haha! Pensecola!

Dude, stop making up places.

Free Soviets, to be clear, are you saying that we should just let men get on school buses and do nothing to them?

Free Soviets, to be clear, are you saying that we should just let men get on school buses and do nothing to them?
No, I believe he is saying you tell them "I'm sorry, you're on the wrong bus" rather than throw them in jail.

I also disticntly remember the head of Scotland Yard making the dry comment that in this age of suicide bombers, the policy is to shoot people who keep moving after being ordered to stop.

the official line was conclusively demonstrated to be complete and utter shit, made up on the fly to make the murder seem at least marginally justified, until it all came crashing down on them.

I think any adult getting on that bus should have been thrown in jail.

We're talking children's safety in a situation that was clearly an inappropriate situation for adults. Even if the bus looked like a normal bus, once those adults got on the bus, they should have realized that the bus was full of only children and gotten back off. Common-sense isn't a US monopoly, hell, we've got less than our share of it. :D

I don't care how little of the culture they understood, the fact that they got on, and stayed on, the bus is suspicious. It would be suspicious if they were white, if they were black, if they were Mexican, if they were Cuban, if they were Chinese, if they were Japanese.

Adults (not the driver, not the aide, not the parent/guardian of a child on the bus) on a school bus should be detained.

No, I believe he is saying you tell them "I'm sorry, you're on the wrong bus" rather than throw them in jail.

precisely.

there is this great invention we've got now. they call it a "bus pass", and you have to show it to the bus driver before being let on. truly astounding, this modern age.

The man shot dead on the underground was shot dead because he didn't understand the concept of "halt" "stop" "don't move" "freeze"


Wow, given the amount of time you spent in London recently one would have thought you paid attention to the actual findings of that important case.

None of what you described actually happened whatsoever. They didn't call 'halt', 'stop' or 'don't move'. They didn't even chase him into the underground.

He was already on the train sitting down, when the plain clothes policemen burst onto it, surrounded him and shot him repeatedly. All this despite the fact that there were two or three undercover police on board the train trailing him.

But you know better. Of course.

No, I believe he is saying you tell them "I'm sorry, you're on the wrong bus" rather than throw them in jail.
They weren't thrown in jail. They were detained at the scene and they lied to the cops. They were then arrested. When no evidence of criminal wrong doing was found they were released. I think it was perfectly appropriate.

precisely.

there is this great invention we've got now. they call it a "bus pass", and you have to show it to the bus driver before being let on. truly astounding, this modern age.

I don't know why a bus driver refusing someone access is so alien. Over here public buses are frequently full of school-children in the mornings but adults wouldn't be expected to get off just for that reasons. People have places to go, for fuck's sake. If I walked onto an official schoolbus, the driver would probably tell me so and allow me to leave. Without the need for a firearm. Amazing.

Similarly, if I flagged down a schoolbus and I was the only person at the stop or there were only adults the bus driver would ignore me and keep driving. But DK probably wouldn't feel safe unless the driver shot me for trying to flag down the bus

Even if the bus looked like a normal bus, once those adults got on the bus, they should have realized that the bus was full of children and gotten back off.

have you ever seen high school kids? they're the ones with the beards and boobs. i looked essentially the same at 16 as i did at 20. the bus driver wasn't able to immediately tell that these guys weren't students, so i doubt they immediately realized anything either.

and besides, when you get on a bus at a time when high school kids are going to or from school in places that don't have seperate school bus lines at all, the public buses are completely full kids - it's just normal in many places to get on a bus full of high schoolers.

and besides, when you get on a bus at a time when high school kids are going to or from school in places that don't have seperate school bus lines at all, the public buses are completely full kids - it's just normal in many places to get on a bus full of high schoolers.

Without any other adults? Sorry, doesn't happen here.

Without any other adults? Sorry, doesn't happen here.
On a public bus?

Well it isn't public then is it, if only high school 'kids' are allowed on it?

Happens every single day here too.

Without any other adults? Sorry, doesn't happen here.

It happens here...all the time. If you sit down on the lower deck you don't know what the demographical make-up of the upper deck is, do you?

Without any other adults? Sorry, doesn't happen here.

well, two foreigners aren't meant to know that are they?

well, two foreigners aren't meant to know that are they?

Maybe if they did it would be suspicious behaviour.

Cop: So why didn't you get on that first bus?
Trenchcoat dude: Because it was a schoolbus.
Cop: Hmmm...sounds like you know too much for a foreigner. Send 'em to Camp X-Ray, lads!

Maybe if they did it would be suspicious behaviour.

Cop: So why didn't you get on that first bus?
Trenchcoat dude: Because it was a schoolbus.
Cop: Hmmm...sounds like you know too much for a foreigner. Send 'em to Camp X-Ray, lads!

don't be ridiculous. that would never happen.

they'd simply shoot them in the head repeatedly

don't be ridiculous. that would never happen.

they'd simply shoot them in the head repeatedly

Point well made.

On a public bus?

Well it isn't public then is it, if only high school 'kids' are allowed on it?

Happens every single day here too.

This was actually the point I was trying to make.

If it's a public bus there will undoubtedly be other adults on it. If there are no adults around, maybe it's not a public bus...


It happens here...all the time. If you sit down on the lower deck you don't know what the demographical make-up of the upper deck is, do you?

How many double-decker buses have you seen in the US? Me, not many. And that includes time in large cities; LA, Chicago, DC, Baltimore, Houston...

If it's a public bus there will undoubtedly be other adults on it.

As has already been stated, it's not uncommon here (for clarity: Manchester, UK) to get on a bus at that time in the morning and for the bus to be full of school-children with no other adults, except for the bus driver.

How many double-decker buses have you seen in the US? Me, not many. And that includes time in large cities; LA, Chicago, DC, Baltimore, Houston...

Does that matter?

Public buses are both double decker and not double decker.

As has already been stated, it's not uncommon here (for clarity: Manchester, UK) to get on a bus at that time in the morning and for the bus to be full of school-children with no other adults, except for the bus driver.

Actually, I try and avoid that- purely because I loath school children in the morning. Irritating and loud sods.

More guns means safer transportation.

No silly. More guns simply means a higher mean of kids and crooks getting their hands on them and blowing themselves or other people away.

Allowing guns to people who are certified in both it's use, safety and have no criminal background is one thing, but giving them to every bus driver? That's just nuts.

The real problem is stopping the illicit trade of weaponry where dealers provide firearms to unlicensed holders. But somehow, I doubt the NRA and it's supporters would get behind stopping even that.

As has already been stated, it's not uncommon here (for clarity: Manchester, UK) to get on a bus at that time in the morning and for the bus to be full of school-children with no other adults, except for the bus driver.

It's not common in the US. To do it here would be suspicious. That is why these guys were questioned. As was pointed out, they were arrested because they told several non-coordinating stories explaining their suspicious behavior.

Maybe you all need lessons in the UK on how not to get shot by police.

We have a very good system of not getting shot by the police.

Most of them don't carry guns.

And the ones who do try not to use them.

It's not common in the US.

it is in, for example, chicago and honolulu. in fact, i would expect it to happen anywhere that has public buses that high schoolers take to school and back, as most older people would rather just catch the next bus than sit on a bus full of obnoxious teens.

and, of course, whether it's common or not in the u.s. in general or tampa specifically has no bearing on what a couple of foreigners would think.

Any delay or discussion or further movement, and we'll read about how dead you are.

He made it sound as though UK people were unfamiliar with the concept.

Better get used to it.


I hate to be picking apart your 'arguements' again and again (really, I do), but you really seem to be missing the point here.

Yes, we are unfamilliar with people being shot for not acting instantly. That is because we don't like to see the death of innocents. We like trials. A persons life ending because they didn't react at the precise moment a trigger-happy cop told them to? Seems a little unfair to me. And I really don't think I'm alone on this one.

Are you really comfortable with the fact that being caught off guard by a member of authority could mean death?

I mean, death is a little bit far.




Better get used to it? I think we'd kinda only have one chance to get used to it. You can't die more than once you know.

and, of course, whether it's common or not in the u.s. in general or tampa specifically has no bearing on what a couple of foreigners would think.

I don't disagree with this. I'm not saying that just because they were there they were terrorists or evil child molesters. They may simply not have known better. I, personally, find it difficult to believe but I'll accept that that it could be true.

I still don't think that we should allow people to wander around committing suspicious behavior without being questioned. In this case, it was determined that they had no evil intentions to go along with their suspicious behavior and they were let go. But ignoring behavior that appears suspicious is not why we have police authorities.

That would be like telling a policeman not to stop someone who was swerving. The policeman is suspicious that the person is on the telephone, drunk, doing too many things at once. He pulls the person over, finds a sober person with no cell phone and the radio not on. He searches the car and then lets the person go.

The person was stopped because his/her behavior was suspicious. When it was found to be nothing sinister the person is let go. The exact same process that was followed in this situation. (Yes, the guys were arrested but only because they lied. They told several stories explaining something, only one of which could be true, or parts of several/all of them. But, if they gave more than one story, obviously there was some untruth to their stories...)

I hate to be picking apart your 'arguements' again and again (really, I do), but you really seem to be missing the point here.

Yes, we are unfamilliar with people being shot for not acting instantly. That is because we don't like to see the death of innocents. We like trials. A persons life ending because they didn't react at the precise moment a trigger-happy cop told them to? Seems a little unfair to me. And I really don't think I'm alone on this one.

Are you really comfortable with the fact that being caught off guard by a member of authority could mean death?

I mean, death is a little bit far.

Better get used to it? I think we'd kinda only have one chance to get used to it. You can't die more than once you know.

Here in the US, we have the idea that police have the right to live to see retirement. Indeed, in most US states, we have the concept of "an imminent threat to life" even applying to civilians who are confronted by criminals.

In Virginia, if you can establish that the person you shot constituted "an imminent threat to life" you are allowed to shoot. Simple.

So, if you've got a situation where some guy is identified as a potential bomber (and that translates as "suicide bomber" these days), you are allowed to shoot first and ask questions later.

In New York City, a raid was conducted on an apartment where terrorists were assembling bombs. None was in working condition, but when the police entered without warning, some of the terrorists made a lunge for the materials on the table, and were shot promptly for doing so after having been told to freeze.

It's a simple concept. Someone with a gun tells you not to move. You're not going to get shot for doing what they say.

In Virginia, if you can establish that the person you shot constituted "an imminent threat to life" you are allowed to shoot. Simple.


Person you shot? Sounds like the past tense to me. So I'm guessing that means that if a person was shot, and it turns out they weren't a so-called "imminent threat to life," nobody cares? They're dead, and without cause. Ever heard of immobilising? Or just plain caution, that would be nice.

Wrong place, wrong time.

Sounds like the police force can be equally labelled as an "imminent threat to life."

Someone with a gun tells you not to move. You're not going to get shot for doing what they say.

Yeah, that's probably what Jean-Charles thought before they shot him repeatedly in the head.

Person you shot? Sounds like the past tense to me. So I'm guessing that means that if a person was shot, and it turns out they weren't a so-called "imminent threat to life," nobody cares? They're dead, and without cause. Ever heard of immobilising? Or just plain caution, that would be nice.

Wrong place, wrong time.

Sounds like the police force can be equally labelled as an "imminent threat to life."

Indeed, so I reckon it's okay to shoot a police officer if he points a gun at you if he can shoot if you so much as twitch - I'd say that's far more of an imminent threat to life than simply "reaching into a pocket".

:headbang:

Thats right, I'm a (*gasp*) idealist. I think that this is quite obviously a more complicated situation than that - a mass of 'grey area.'

Shooting people bad. Terrorism bad. Unfortunately people need to think about these things quickly. And people make MISTAKES. Sometimes they don't. Which is nice. While we mustn't forget that yes, there is a threat out there (though not nearly as widespread as we would be lead to believe), we cannot shrug off the deaths of innocents. We cannot allow people to be arrested without cause or shot due to mild suspicion or racial profiling.

Innocents don’t deserve to be shot, and nor do police officers. Don't be so naive as to think that by disagreeing with the trigger-happy nature of certain police officers, I would rather see them dead. That would be silly.

Just for arguments' sake-this is a bus in Saudi Arabia, which is these men's point of reference:
http://www.saudi-us-relations.org/images2005/IOI/2005_01_23a200.jpg
It's not too much of a stretch to think when they saw 'School Bus' they just thought that's the bus that would take them to school.

I can actually see how they where let on the bus since it was a substitute bus driver, the regular driver would have been taking the same kids all year round and wouldn't have let them on, my guess. My bus drivers always knew who was who on their routes fairly early in the year. But that's ancedotal, so not really worth much.

As far as 'dry runs' go, couldn't they just as easily drive to the school themselves? Load a car with explosives and send it in? Hell, I can get onto high schools pretty much at will. I think it was just a bumble.

Thats right, I'm a (*gasp*) idealist. I think that this is quite obviously a more complicated situation than that - a mass of 'grey area.'

Shooting people bad. Terrorism bad. Unfortunately people need to think about these things quickly. And people make MISTAKES. Sometimes they don't. Which is nice. While we mustn't forget that yes, there is a threat out there (though not nearly as widespread as we would be lead to believe), we cannot shrug off the deaths of innocents. We cannot allow people to be arrested without cause or shot due to mild suspicion or racial profiling.

Innocents don’t deserve to be shot, and nor do police officers. Don't be so naive as to think that by disagreeing with the trigger-happy nature of certain police officers, I would rather see them dead. That would be silly.

I was following the "imminent threat to life" logic out to it's conclusion and saying it ultimately follows that a police officer with a gun drawn would be an okay target. I wasn't saying that I believe this nor that you believe this.

Question:
Why the hell would someone want to wear a black trenchcoat
in 80+F weather, get on a school bus and lie about where they come from?
Have you ever worn a trenchcoat in 80F weather?
Not very plesant!

Tey didn't have a picture of it in the article, but it was full of children with backpacks and school supplies and lunch bags and I'm sure it was just like every other school bus I've ever seen. It was probably also not at a bus stop that normal buses stop at and there were probably dozens of children standing around for a while waiting for the bus.

too many "probably-s"

A 23-year-old with a high schooler is molestation. A 20-year-old is reaching, but not the 23-year-old.

It may have been an innocent mistake. I, personally, don't buy it, but we'll give you "innocent mistake". In any case, they've been let go. They did something, in your situation unknowingly, that seemed suspicious to the authorities. They were apprehended, questioned, investigated and ultimately let go, in a timely manner. What's the problem? Let's not ever question or arrest anyone who does something suspicious because they might not have known better?



You mean the kids ride the actual public transportation? I've heard of that (like I said, it happens in my own city) but not that some of the port authority buses are completely "school buses", which this bus was. Strictly a school bus. Not a public bus with schoolchildren on it.

No, he was criticizing the fact that they were being called terrorrists.

Just for arguments' sake-this is a bus in Saudi Arabia, which is these men's point of reference:
http://www.saudi-us-relations.org/images2005/IOI/2005_01_23a200.jpg
It's not too much of a stretch to think when they saw 'School Bus' they just thought that's the bus that would take them to school.

I can actually see how they where let on the bus since it was a substitute bus driver, the regular driver would have been taking the same kids all year round and wouldn't have let them on, my guess. My bus drivers always knew who was who on their routes fairly early in the year. But that's ancedotal, so not really worth much.

As far as 'dry runs' go, couldn't they just as easily drive to the school themselves? Load a car with explosives and send it in? Hell, I can get onto high schools pretty much at will. I think it was just a bumble.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/Guatemala/bus.jpg

Here's a pic of a Guatemalan public bus... surplus school busses are sent/sold to the transport companies there, many times they are unpainted.

Question:
Why the hell would someone want to wear a black trenchcoat
in 80+F weather, get on a school bus and lie about where they come from?
Have you ever worn a trenchcoat in 80F weather?
Not very plesant!

Maybe they were goths.