NationStates Jolt Archive

I want to learn more about the left end of the political spectrum and thought there to be no better place on the internet than this forum. Here's how this will work: I'll ask a question about the left (because I want to know more and thought I'd get it from the donkey's mouth rather than someone on the right) and someone from the left will answer. Please no flaming or any of that other crap. I just want to learn more about the left.

First question has to do with taxes
Do people on the left get up every morning and think to themselves, "The government isn't getting enough of my money"? Why or why not?

Please just answer the question honestly and nothing more.

Please just answer the question honestly and nothing more.

If the Government hasn't enough revenue to fund it's programmes, then yes.

If the Government hasn't enough revenue to fund it's programmes, then yes.


A minor alteration of that sentiment:

If the government hasn't enough revenue to fund vital programs then yes. Cronyism is not a vital program, pork projects are not vital, spying on reporters and citizens is not vital.

I want to learn more about the left end of the political spectrum and thought there to be no better place on the internet than this forum. Here's how this will work: I'll ask a question about the left (because I want to know more and thought I'd get it from the donkey's mouth rather than someone on the right) and someone from the left will answer. Please no flaming or any of that other crap. I just want to learn more about the left.

First question has to do with taxes
Do people on the left get up every morning and think to themselves, "The government isn't getting enough of my money"? Why or why not?

Please just answer the question honestly and nothing more.
ya know that question just about brings tears to my eyes

it USED to be that liberal were wanting the government to do more for the people and were willing to pay for it through their taxes. its not a matter of "am i paying enough in taxes" so much as "is it worth more of my money to have to government do X?"

nowadays i look at the government, see that we are spending billions of new dollars on things that i would rather we not be spending money on and i KNOW i am not paying enough money in taxes to pay for the excesses of the conservatives who are in power. not only are we spending hundreds of billions more but we are happy to give this debt to our children and grandchildren to pay off. debt for things that don't even improve our country.

it puts me on a rant to know that, for the current republican administration, we dont have money for the poor, for our children, for health care but we have hundreds of billions to kill people in other countries.

It's not that the government isn't getting enough, it's that people with no money aren't getting enough. Redistribution of wealth, with the government as the administrator of that redistribution.

If you want to redistribute your wealth to the needy there i snothing to stop you. Why do you think the governemnt will do a better job?

Mybe because the government has the apparatus to collect wealth and then assess who needs it, better than me.

I agree with the general concensus, I don't mind paying my taxes and whould even pay more if I could see it going where it is needed.

Go to a cash machine take out the amount of money in your account that you think is excessive and then give it to the people you think need it most. Why do think other people are a better judge of this than you? have confidence in your own decision making abilities.

Do people on the left get up every morning and think to themselves, "The government isn't getting enough of my money"? Why or why not?

Yes they do.

The thinking on the left goes something like this:

"If we assume that every dollar the government spends is good value for the money, we need higher taxes."

I think most people (except the most hardcore capitalists like me) would agree with that statement, but the trouble is that the antecedent is false. Government spending typically ISN'T good value for the money, but the left seems to assume that it is.

Go to a cash machine take out the amount of money in your account that you think is excessive and then give it to the people you think need it most. Why do think other people are a better judge of this than you? have confidence in your own decision making abilities.

i currently have £20. I suppose I could give it to a homeless dude, but im not going to. *shrugs*. There's always someone worse off, and the government can pool money to use in programs and such which I, as an individual, couldn't. Its just a matter of organisation.

Yes they do.

The thinking on the left goes something like this:

"If we assume that every dollar the government spends is good value for the money, we need higher taxes."

I think most people (except the most hardcore capitalists like me) would agree with that statement, but the trouble is that the antecedent is false. Government spending typically ISN'T good value for the money, but the left seems to assume that it is.

The Left like to imagine there is a nice, kind, generous thing called government that only ever does thiongs for noble reasons and they should never ecer have to take difficult decisions about allocation their budget. If they can't afford something they should raises taxes to pay for it. Sane people realise this is nonsesn since government is run by politicians.

First question has to do with taxes
Do people on the left get up every morning and think to themselves, "The government isn't getting enough of my money"? Why or why not?

First of all, I applaud your earnestness in seeking answers.

Now, the question. Do I think some Liberals have their heads up their asses when it comes to what the government should be doing? Yes. I'm a fan of moderation, myself. As to the actual question, no, I don't think the Left think the government needs more money. Rather, I think they believe the government needs to get it's priorities in line with the needs they can actually fix. They don't think we can fix Iraq. They believe that for too long, government has been overspending on outmoded defenses and things like SDI (satellite defense/weapons).

The Left like to imagine there is a nice, kind, generous thing called government that only ever does thiongs for noble reasons and they should never ecer have to take difficult decisions about allocation their budget. If they can't afford something they should raises taxes to pay for it. Sane people realise this is nonsesn since government is run by politicians.
I've never met anybody, Left or Right, who believes that.

The general idea on the left seems to be that government should be empowered to provide services (education, health care, law enforcement, etc) to the people, and that government will logically require funding to provide these services. Taxes are how the government obtains revenue.

The Lefties also tend to believe that a great many leaders within the government are greedy and unprincipled bastards who will try their best to rob the country blind and fuck over the majority of Americans. In America, we call these leaders "Republicans." Lefties tend not to vote for them.

Liasia']i currently have £20. I suppose I could give it to a homeless dude, but im not going to. *shrugs*. There's always someone worse off, and the government can pool money to use in programs and such which I, as an individual, couldn't. Its just a matter of organisation.

If you gave £20 to a down and out and everyone else with spare cash did the same why would we need the government to do it. Take responsibility for your guilt at how well off you are in comparision to others. I utterly reject the notion that government action is more efficient than the action of individuals.

Yes they do.

The thinking on the left goes something like this:

"If we assume that every dollar the government spends is good value for the money, we need higher taxes."

I think most people (except the most hardcore capitalists like me) would agree with that statement, but the trouble is that the antecedent is false. Government spending typically ISN'T good value for the money, but the left seems to assume that it is.


Sorry but that is blatant over generalisation right there, in them very words wot you jus' sed.

I think most people would disagree and in fact would agree instead that the taxes we pay to the goverment are not being wisely spent at all, both left and right I would say are more likely to agree to that statement than the one you made.

Paint the left as tree hugging hippies if you so wish, and in fact some of us are still like that, paint the right as facist bastards, and yes it is true that some of you are still like that, in reality all of us swing from right to left and back again or even from left to right and back again, depending on what we want.

The truth of the matter is the left want to help all whilst the right want to help them selfs.

you have to wonder about the people on the left. most of the time when polliticians make it to washington they are in the upper class. they make enough money to be in the higher tax brackets. but once you are in the higher tax brackets you are probably making more money then you know what to do with. it is very easy for someone in the upper tax bracket to pretty much have so many deductions that they dont pay much in taxes.

but they raise taxes. so if the upper class isnt paying much in taxes and the lower class frankly cant afford to pay much in taxes. then who pays the taxes?

the middle class.

in politics the right watch out for the upper class and the left watch fro the lower class. there is no one watching out for the middle class. the middle class truely holds the weight of this country.

I've never met anybody, Left or Right, who believes that.

The general idea on the left seems to be that government should be empowered to provide services (education, health care, law enforcement, etc) to the people, and that government will logically require funding to provide these services. Taxes are how the government obtains revenue.

The Lefties also tend to believe that a great many leaders within the government are greedy and unprincipled bastards who will try their best to rob the country blind and fuck over the majority of Americans. In America, we call these leaders "Republicans." Lefties tend not to vote for them.

I don't really want to get into a discussion of party politics, particulalry not the different party politics of different countries. i was making a very generalised point about the perception of the role of government, its motivation and compostion.

Ok, I'm satisifed with the answers thus far. I'd like to thank everyone who responded. I feel you have really helped expand my understanding of the left end of the spectrum on taxes. Now for a double feature:

Question 1: Are the people of the Great Swinging Sphere of The Nazz called Nazzi's?

Question 2: Do people on the left feel it is acceptable for the government to seize private property for public use? Why or why not.

And please try not to bicker with other responders. I'm just trying to learn. This is how you learn, by asking questions. Again, thank you all who responded to the tax question.

1) No idea i've never met them.

2) yes because they have no respect for the rights of property. They justify this as "redistribution of wealth" beacuse life should be fair(I don't know why they think this) and make platitudes about "the greater good".

sorry that sounds a little like flame-bait on re-reading.

you have to wonder about the people on the left. most of the time when polliticians make it to washington they are in the upper class. they make enough money to be in the higher tax brackets. but once you are in the higher tax brackets you are probably making more money then you know what to do with. it is very easy for someone in the upper tax bracket to pretty much have so many deductions that they dont pay much in taxes.

but they raise taxes. so if the upper class isnt paying much in taxes and the lower class frankly cant afford to pay much in taxes. then who pays the taxes?

the middle class.

in politics the right watch out for the upper class and the left watch fro the lower class. there is no one watching out for the middle class. the middle class truely holds the weight of this country.


hjeheh yeah cos there are sooooooo, many of them far more than say the working classes.

Question 1: I would think that they'd be Nazzites...

Question 2: Only when necessary for the public good, as the Constitution mandates. Razing people's homes so that some real estate developer can build a shopping mall -- and reap all the profits -- is mainly for the developer's own gain, and is too heavily influenced by business interests. Eminent domain should only be used to make highways, public facilities, etc., and only when absolutely necessary.

Ok, I'm satisifed with the answers thus far. I'd like to thank everyone who responded. I feel you have really helped expand my understanding of the left end of the spectrum on taxes. Now for a double feature:

Question 1: Are the people of the Great Swinging Sphere of The Nazz called Nazzi's?

Question 2: Do people on the left feel it is acceptable for the government to seize private property for public use? Why or why not.

And please try not to bicker with other responders. I'm just trying to learn. This is how you learn, by asking questions. Again, thank you all who responded to the tax question.


1) Huh wot?

2) I guess it all depends on what the private property is, give us a for instance.

As for not bickering, heheh just not going to happen, when you get two or more people in the same room with differances of opinion then bikkering is a natural state of afairs I'm afraid!:eek:

Ok, I'm satisifed with the answers thus far. I'd like to thank everyone who responded. I feel you have really helped expand my understanding of the left end of the spectrum on taxes. Now for a double feature:

Question 1: Are the people of the Great Swinging Sphere of The Nazz called Nazzi's?

Question 2: Do people on the left feel it is acceptable for the government to seize private property for public use? Why or why not.

And please try not to bicker with other responders. I'm just trying to learn. This is how you learn, by asking questions. Again, thank you all who responded to the tax question.

2) Of course the left feels it is acceptable to allow the beneficent government to decide whose private property to seize for what public use. Once again, they feel that the government ought to be a better judge of what is for the greater good, ignoring the fact that the government is made up of and run by average people, not by moral geniuses, and just as one feels that those who run one's workplace don't necessarily allocate resources or work fairly, so the government does not represent the most efficient or fair method of redistributing wealth.

Thus the premise that righties believe that individuals are the best judges of where to give, to what private organizations or individuals on the street, rather than the untrustworthy government.

2) Of course the left feels it is acceptable to allow the beneficent government to decide whose private property to seize for what public use. Once again, they feel that the government ought to be a better judge of what is for the greater good, ignoring the fact that the government is made up of and run by average people, not by moral geniuses, and just as one feels that those who run one's workplace don't necessarily allocate resources or work fairly, so the government does not represent the most efficient or fair method of redistributing wealth.

Thus the premise that righties believe that individuals are the best judges of where to give, to what private organizations or individuals on the street, rather than the untrustworthy government.

what a concise, easy to understand answer 10/10

Question 1: Are the people of the Great Swinging Sphere of The Nazz called Nazzi's?

Question 2: Do people on the left feel it is acceptable for the government to seize private property for public use? Why or why not.

1) they are called nazzarines

2) yes, because its is allowed by the constitution and sometimes is necessary for the greater good. politicians of all stripes tend to abuse it.

I want to learn more about the left end of the political spectrum

Which left ? The term can be used to describe economic and social concepts, and in general is perceived vastly different in the USA than it is in Europe.

Well that's just because 'conservatives' in Europe would be considered left of center in the states.

The truth of the matter is the left want to help all whilst the right want to help them selfs.

No, you see THAT'S the misrepresentation.

The people on the right think that the best way to help the least fortunate people in society is to create a society that rewards effort and contribution. Let industrialists keep their money so they can create more jobs. Don't tax the rich so heavily that no one will ever bother working hard enough to become rich.

Look at my home - Alberta. It used to have a government-run liquor distribution system. All the stores were government stores, and they were staffed with public employees. Those employees earned an average of $17/hour. To work retail.

The government privatised and deregulated the sector, allowing competition. What happened? First, the available variety of liquor almost tripled. This benefits the consumer. Prices fell. This benefits the consumer. The number of jobs in retail liquor stores quadrupled. This is good for the unemployed. The wages fell. This is bad for the people who already worked there, but that was a small elite group who were being protected from competition by the government.

A free market benefitted everyone except those people who had propped themselves up on the backs of the socialist policy, people who were being paid far more than their contributions warranted, and thus were sucking wealth out of the economy.

Those on the right think that the free market is that which benefits those most people the most.

I've never met anybody, Left or Right, who believes that.

I have.