NationStates Jolt Archive

So, do yall consider motorsports like Nascar, Drag Racing, Indy cars, Midgets etc. a real sport? Do you consider drivers real Athletes? I ask this because I remember when my brother use to race in 4-cylinders modified people wouldn't really consider him a real athete because according to them all he does is drive a car around a oval for about 20 laps. I think Motorsport is a real sport, and that drivers are real Athletes. I dare anyone to try to move through a pack of cars going 200 mph and not crash. All the while using stuff like draft trains, your team mates in other cars, and the set up to make it to the front. I would also like to see the naysayers try to put the cars in the right spot on pit lane without going over and have their friends change 4 tires, fuel up the car, and wipe the grill and windshield in 30 seconds.

So what do yall think?

No.

No.

and why not?

and why not?
Athletes are people that do stuff, like throwing balls for shits n giggles.. or something.. The drivers do exactly what every other person with a car does.. drive.

Plus it's hella boring.

*scratches nose*

Athletes are people that do stuff, like throwing balls for shits n giggles.. or something.. The drivers do exactly what every other person with a car does.. drive.

Plus it's hella boring.

*scratches nose*

Yea, but the fastest people drive here is about 80-100 mph. Also, the horse power is not equal to that of a race car. I would love to see you try to drive a car with alot of horse power, go 200 mph around the track for 500 miles while trying to move through the pack with 42 other cars.

Yea, but the fastest people drive here is about 80-100 mph. Also, the horse power is not equal to that of a race car. I would love to see you try to drive a car with alot of horse power, go 200 mph around the track for 500 miles while trying to move through the pack with 42 other cars.
I can't even drive :p

yes its a sport....it takes skill to handle a car a 200 mph....not any stump can get into a car like that and drive

I used to race motorcycles.

it sure seemed like a sport, and took plenty of strategy and hand /foot eye coordination, and learning how, and some natural ability and some ability to ignore my natural responses and do dangerous things despite what instinct told me.

I didnt think of myself as an athelete so much as a racer though.



a pic of the old days

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6830/rdtz7fl.jpg

It is a sport.

Athletes are people that do stuff, like throwing balls for shits n giggles.. or something.. The drivers do exactly what every other person with a car does.. drive.

*scratches nose*

Wrong, race drivers have to do hard physical training to stay in shape as they need fast reactions and as racing can be 60+ laps it can be exhausting.

So, do yall consider motorsports like Nascar, Indy cars (snip)

No their not motorsport, driving around in an oval does not count as a race imo, a proper motorsport race should include a number of corners etc to make it test the skill of drivers.

Yes.

Is motorsport real sport? Yes.

Is NASCAR real motorsport? No. :D

Hey, if you people don't think Nascar is a real sport, then go ahead and sign up for the Richard Petty Driving Experience. Hell, pay to drive the car yourself. then we'll see what yall say.

It's a real sport, and the drivers are all real athletes. Doesn't make it interesting, though. :p

Just a harmful waste of energy.

Outlaw it altogether.

Just a harmful waste of energy.

Outlaw it altogether.
You could say that about just about any sport you'd care to name. How much harmful energy has been wasted constructing Wembley stadium, for example, or wasted when hundreds of thousands of people descend on football grounds all through the week?

You could say that about just about any sport you'd care to name. How much harmful energy has been wasted constructing Wembley stadium, for example, or wasted when hundreds of thousands of people descend on football grounds all through the week?


Soccer isn't actually promoting a cult of environmental unsoundness as F1 does.

*looks at the other thread*

Are you by any chance left of the center, good Sir?


(*rewrites post in nastymood*

I could - but won't. Problem?)

Hey, if you people don't think Nascar is a real sport, then go ahead and sign up for the Richard Petty Driving Experience. Hell, pay to drive the car yourself. then we'll see what yall say.


I'v driven a NASCAR, and yes they are fast but like i said before, driving around in an oval is not racing.

So what do yall think?


Yes, yes, yes... expecially at high level, motorsport is a real sport..

the fitness and the completeness as athlet of, for exaple, a F1 races is very high.. normal people can't drive a F1 for a single lap, and can't last some more for a minor formula as F3..

ciao!

Are you by any chance left of the center, good Sir?
Nope. You're quite wide of the mark there, actually. :p

Soccer isn't actually promoting a cult of environmental unsoundness as F1 does.
Hummers are environmentally unsound.

http://static.flickr.com/30/42655560_d7a2751cf0_m.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/2/3372146_041a7f4d79_m.jpg

F1 cars for all their noise, consumption and pollution are never anything more than an exception.

Hummers are environmentally unsound.

http://static.flickr.com/30/42655560_d7a2751cf0_m.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/2/3372146_041a7f4d79_m.jpg

F1 cars for all their noise, consumption and pollution are never anything more than an exception.
Someone near where I live has one of those. It is quite possibly the most stupid car money can buy; it's too big for parking spaces and your days of being able to drive past petrol stations are long behind you.

Go fast.....turn left.

Whoohoo.

Nascar is for rednecks.

I hate most of you because you're going to make me do it again. NASCAR is my least favorite just above drag racing, which I can barely swallow. However, I must give its due and the haters always force me to defend a branch of motorsport I'm not the fondest of.

First of all-do none of you get Gatorade ads? Where they talk about the up to ten pounds in moisture that drives lose in a NASCAR race? "Just turn left" indeed. The tracks are different shapes and have different challenges and if you don't know that or refuse to accept it then you are not the racing fan you think you are. (I know that's a fallacy-it's an argument about racing...)

As a sort of 1.5 point, NASCAR runs on two of the nastiest road tracks every year.

Second, and this is really the important part-the racing is good in NASCAR. "But but but the turns!!!" You'll whine. I'm not watching a stunt show, I'm watching a race, a sport. I am watching competitors-and you can find some of the closest, most neck and neck racing watching NASCAR. It's not the popular motorsport it is because rednecks is stupid, monster trucks are only a fraction of the draw-it is because when someone tunes into a NASCAR race they have a damn good chance of seeing a very close race.

And when the speeds got to high the measures they used actually slowed the cars down 60 mph, not ineffectual changes to wings that just reduced passing even more in a series that was already a parade. (I know that's a dated criticism of F1, I've been told the new season is (finally) dynamic.)

Like I said, not my favorite by a long shot. But lets be fair about what we say.

For the record, now that no one cares, my big time favorite is endurance sports cars. Love it. Wish they did those races like Mille Miglia, PanAmericana, and Targa Florio.

Hummers are environmentally unsound.

http://static.flickr.com/30/42655560_d7a2751cf0_m.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/2/3372146_041a7f4d79_m.jpg

F1 cars for all their noise, consumption and pollution are never anything more than an exception.

So ban the hummers as well.
Not that I see 'em around here, but I imagine they might be in Oz.
( I'm not sure what your point was, really. )

So ban the hummers as well.
Not that I see 'em around here, but I imagine they might be in Oz.
( I'm not sure what your point was, really. )
I think he means that they only race 17 times a year as opposed to Hummer Daily drivers.

Though I agree with you in substance, because racing is excess, but it's supposed to exist to 'improve the breed,' though racing has fallen off that in the last few years.

But there is some return to that-just this year Audi used a diesel powered race car to win the 12 hours of Sebring. The IRL is going to be running this year on Ethanol.

I think that racing should (really, if it knows what's good for itself) take more of a lead in alternate fuels that may be cleaner or more renewable.

It's not the all or nothing of your 'ban it,' but ultimately I think we'd get more out of it that way.

No.

I consider a sport to be something where the ultimate goal requires physical exertion to achieve.

Football is a sport because you have to run, otherwise the opposing team will just dribble past you. Physical exertion is part of the game.

Hockey is a sport for the same reasons. I consider sports activities where not only is physical exertion part of the game, but it's also essential.

Golf, for example, does not require (significant) physical exertion. All you have to do is hit the ball with the stick that you're holding in you're hand. When you're walking, you're not playing, so that doesn't count.

Motorsports, likewise, do not need physical exertion. The car/motorcycle is doing the exertion for you, all you have to do is use your head. If it were bicycles, then yes, but it's not.

If you call sweating and losing weight as "physical exertion", then you'd call sitting in a box in the sun a sport. Also, just because you have to think, doesn't mean it's a sport.

Of course it is. But I wouldn't really call drivers athletes.

I think he means that they only race 17 times a year as opposed to Hummer Daily drivers.

Though I agree with you in substance, because racing is excess, but it's supposed to exist to 'improve the breed,' though racing has fallen off that in the last few years.

But there is some return to that-just this year Audi used a diesel powered race car to win the 12 hours of Sebring. The IRL is going to be running this year on Ethanol.

I think that racing should (really, if it knows what's good for itself) take more of a lead in alternate fuels that may be cleaner or more renewable.

It's not the all or nothing of your 'ban it,' but ultimately I think we'd get more out of it that way.

*shrug*
I'm rather green.
Haven't ever actually driven a car myself - despite being well on my way towards pension.
One single car = 1 car too many.
No matter whether it uses ethanol, ethanal, or holy water.

( I apply Moral Clarity to the environment as well. )

*shrug*
I'm rather green.
Haven't ever actually driven a car myself - despite being well on my way towards pension.
One single car = 1 car too many.
No matter whether it uses ethanol, ethanal, or holy water.

( I apply Moral Clarity to the environment as well. )
I'm as green as the next guy, and magic carpets would be great. However...

Is horseriding a sport?

I'm as green as the next guy, and magic carpets would be great. However...

Any idea how much I walk in any given year?
You'd be surprised.
( It was close to an average of 8 miles per day last year, counting only outdoors-walking, and not counting recreational stuff. )

No.

I consider a sport to be something where the ultimate goal requires physical exertion to achieve.

Football is a sport because you have to run, otherwise the opposing team will just dribble past you. Physical exertion is part of the game.

Hockey is a sport for the same reasons. I consider sports activities where not only is physical exertion part of the game, but it's also essential.

Golf, for example, does not require (significant) physical exertion. All you have to do is hit the ball with the stick that you're holding in you're hand. When you're walking, you're not playing, so that doesn't count.

Motorsports, likewise, do not need physical exertion. The car/motorcycle is doing the exertion for you, all you have to do is use your head. If it were bicycles, then yes, but it's not.

If you call sweating and losing weight as "physical exertion", then you'd call sitting in a box in the sun a sport. Also, just because you have to think, doesn't mean it's a sport.
If you where whiping the box around to create lateral gs and forcing the guy in the box to not only hold on, but steer the box while under that pressure for hundreds of miles and if he (or she) falters they slam into a wall really really hard, then yeah-it'd be the whipping some dude around in a box they have to control in the hot sun against constant lateral acceleration or they hit the wall sport.

If you where whiping the box around to create lateral gs and forcing the guy in the box to not only hold on, but steer the box while under that pressure for hundreds of miles and if he (or she) falters they slam into a wall really really hard, then yeah-it'd be the whipping some dude around in a box they have to control in the hot sun against constant lateral acceleration or they hit the wall sport.


How hard can it be if Tom Cruise can drive a nascar nearly as fast as "professionals"?

If you where whiping the box around to create lateral gs and forcing the guy in the box to not only hold on, but steer the box while under that pressure for hundreds of miles and if he (or she) falters they slam into a wall really really hard, then yeah-it'd be the whipping some dude around in a box they have to control in the hot sun against constant lateral acceleration or they hit the wall sport.

Just because it's dangerous does not make it a sport. So the box is moving really fast. You're still not doing anything other than directing the box where to go with your hands.

You usually see in sports that people run a lot to practice, because they need the physical capability. Drivers don't need to do that. They need to be capable of turning a wheel and pushing a pedal with their foot lightly.

Just because it's hard doesn't make it a sport. You're making it sound like I'm trying to belittle what racing drivers do.

Just because it's dangerous does not make it a sport. So the box is moving really fast. You're still not doing anything other than directing the box where to go with your hands.

You usually see in sports that people run a lot to practice, because they need the physical capability. Drivers don't need to do that. They need to be capable of turning a wheel and pushing a pedal with their foot lightly.

Just because it's hard doesn't make it a sport. You're making it sound like I'm trying to belittle what racing drivers do.
You're right, playing a racing video game wouldn't be a sport, but actually driving a car like that that fast is a lot mor than 'directing where the box would go'...it takes physical exursion to do it and then they do it for a really long time. Not only is the car something that they have to fight (It really just wants to go straight) but the lateral acceleration-all physical exursion that they need to train for.

And what gave you the idea that race car drivers don't need to practice? It's the most valuble time in the car, you're crazy to think that they just show up.

How hard can it be if Tom Cruise can drive a nascar nearly as fast as "professionals"?
A couple of seconds doesn't seem like much, but after 250 laps, it makes all the difference in the world.

A show I watched on NASCAR awhile back talked about the amount of g-forces the drivers experience. I think it said 1.5 G's of downforce and 6 G's lateral. Or something like that. I remember commenting that they are pulling forces similar to a shuttle launch.

Motorsports, likewise, do not need physical exertion. The car/motorcycle is doing the exertion for you, all you have to do is use your head. If it were bicycles, then yes, but it's not.

Do you have any idea of the fitness levels required to drive a top level racing car?

The G-forces involved (particlarly in F1) mean there is real physical exertion needed to drive the car fast. Your neck muscles go under incredible strain, you need to have strong arms to wrestle the car into the corner, you need to be able to deal with the incredible forces involved in braking, cornering, and accelleration. It is hard work.

Go karting in a decent kart for half an hour. When you're finished you'll be breathing pretty damn heavily.

Bike racing is even more of an exertion. You have to move about on the bike to get it into, and around, the corners at any speed. Ever see a bike race? See the way they jump about from side to side on the bike, using their weight to get it turned?

You say motorsport does not require physical exertion, I say you're simply wrong. The fitness levels required, the forces involved, and the way you need to use your body, all agree with me.

I'm as green as the next guy, and magic carpets would be great. However...
Smoke this.. *grin*

I'v driven a NASCAR, and yes they are fast but like i said before, driving around in an oval is not racing.

Yes it is, granted if it's just one car you may have a point, but with 42 cars, for 500 miles, and you have to make almost perfect pit stops, then it becomes a sport.

How hard can it be if Tom Cruise can drive a nascar nearly as fast as "professionals"?

You can't honest believe that Tom Cruise is capable of doing an actual race...

I enjoy racing, but it isn't a sport, even though you must be fit to compete at a high level. The same is true of chess. A wonderful pastime, not a sport.

I enjoy racing, but it isn't a sport, even though you must be fit to compete at a high level. The same is true of chess. A wonderful pastime, not a sport.

*laughes as he imagines 42 Nationstates member tries to drive around Daytona Motor Speedway going full speed.*

I'd win.

I'd win.

Yea, that if you can make it past the massive wreck.

Yea, that if you can make it past the massive wreck.

Well, hell, isn't that what sliding sideways through the infield is for? :D

No.



Motorsports, likewise, do not need physical exertion. The car/motorcycle is doing the exertion for you, all you have to do is use your head. If it were bicycles, then yes, but it's not.

.

I dont think that you know what you are talking about.

MotoCross was second after soccer in physical exertion in tests done on atheletes in all the major sports.

*laughes as he imagines 42 Nationstates member tries to drive around Daytona Motor Speedway going full speed.*

Ive been on Daytona on the bike course. The most amazing thing is the banking. Its odd because you dont look forward you look mostly up to see where you are going. Its a first class argument for lightweight helmets.

F! and A1GP are the best, nascar is onl good for the highlights with the amazing crashes and flips and stuff

I think auto racing is a sport, but I don't think the drivers are atheletes.

“Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.”
-Ernest Hemingway

I think auto racing is a sport, but I don't think the drivers are atheletes.


So, what be thine definition of an athlete? Personally, considering the amount of training, endurance, ability,physical strength and dexterity needed to drive competitively, I see them as athletes.

Not trying to start anything, just curious.

So, what be thine definition of an athlete? Personally, considering the amount of training, endurance, ability,physical strength and dexterity needed to drive competitively, I see them as athletes.

Not trying to start anything, just curious.
Admittedly I'm not that familiar with auto racing, but I guess my definition would be that physical training is a necessary prerequisite to performing the sport. Again, I'm not that familiar with the sport but I guess when I think of the word Athelete I think more of something like this:

http://allstarz.hollywood.com/kobe/005.jpg

Although, I realize that's it purely perceptual.

Athletes are people that do stuff, like throwing balls for shits n giggles.. or something.. The drivers do exactly what every other person with a car does.. drive.

Plus it's hella boring.

*scratches nose*

So you're saying me, as a rally car driver, pump adrenaline in my veins for doing something that is for fat lazy people? I have to be in shape 24/7, thankyouverymuch.

It is a very stupid sport. Except the crashes, those are cool.

No.

I consider a sport to be something where the ultimate goal requires physical exertion to achieve.

Football is a sport because you have to run, otherwise the opposing team will just dribble past you. Physical exertion is part of the game.

Hockey is a sport for the same reasons. I consider sports activities where not only is physical exertion part of the game, but it's also essential.

Golf, for example, does not require (significant) physical exertion. All you have to do is hit the ball with the stick that you're holding in you're hand. When you're walking, you're not playing, so that doesn't count.

Motorsports, likewise, do not need physical exertion. The car/motorcycle is doing the exertion for you, all you have to do is use your head. If it were bicycles, then yes, but it's not.

If you call sweating and losing weight as "physical exertion", then you'd call sitting in a box in the sun a sport. Also, just because you have to think, doesn't mean it's a sport.
Your, sir, are a moron. Have you ever thought that you also have to accelerate, brake, shift, look, and all that shit. Perhaps you've never felt the clutch pedal in a 1200hp ProStreet musclecar, or had a blow-out at 180mph. Or had to drift around a near right-angle turn at 100mph.

Motorsports all all kinds are potentially lifethreating to the players, and that, my friend, is what makes a rela man. Not kicking a B&W ball around a field, not hitting a little white ball with a piece of wood...

yes, but only wrc and touring cars and that sort of thing. none of this going round a circuit in a specialist car shite.

I don't really think it's a sport. For me, part of a definition of sports relies on moving withought a machine and motor helping you. I'm sure it's physically taxing and difficult, but it just doesn't fit into my definition of sport.

Nadkor, Cannot think of a name

I stand corrected.

And let this mark the first time in NS history that anyone has changed their mind due to an opponent's successful debate.

yes, but only wrc and touring cars and that sort of thing. none of this going round a circuit in a specialist car shite.

Ill second that

I don't see why they call it a sport. It's a bunch of guys going around in a circle exeeding the speed limit.

yes, but only wrc and touring cars and that sort of thing. none of this going round a circuit in a specialist car shite.

So instead of going round a circuit in a specialist car you prefer going round a circuit in a specialist car (touring cars), and going along a route in a specialist car.

Where exactly is your objection to "going round a circuit in a specialist car"?

One of the two you mentioned that you like does exactly that, and WRC still has specialist cars.

Oh yeah, and this weekend is the Monaco Grand Prix. Anybody who thinks motorsport is "just going round in a circle" ought to watch that (but not if you're looking for lots of overtaking...)

race car drivers are as much as athletes as poker players


people who race on foot on the other hand, are athletes in my mind.

race car drivers are as much as athletes as poker players
Racing driver = massive physical exertion
Motorbike racer = massive physical exertion
Poker players = sitting on your arse.

Hm...I don't quite see the correlation.


people who race on foot on the other hand, are athletes in my mind.

Despite the fact that the physical stresses imposed upon an F1 driver can be equated with a top marathon runner, and that's before you factor in the G-forces involved in F1, and the extended mental activity needed to race?

I think This (http://www.channel4.com/4car/feature/features-2004/f1-fitness/f1-fitness.html) article demonstrates my point quite well.

Attaching heart monitors to top Formula One racers reveals an astonishing statistic that few sports can match: sustaining such a high heart beat rate whilst holding on to such high levels of concentration for such a long period of time.

"A Formula One driver typically maintains a heart rate of 150 to 170 beats per minute for the entire 1 hour 45 minutes of an average Grand Prix," says Dr Ceccarelli. "When I showed my research to a cardiologist, he found it hard to believe that anyone could sustain that level of exertion for so long." (A normal fit person has a resting heart rate of 50-60bpm.)

According to Dr Ceccarelli, while a Tour de France cyclist strains at 140bpm for each four- to five-hour stage, and a marathon runner can run at 150-160 beats per minute for just over two hours, "the difference in Formula One is the mental stress. There is no sport that demands such intense concentration. A huge amount of adrenalin is being pumped, and this - as well as the physical strain - causes the high heart rate."

Even when there is no physical strain, such as at the start, "when the only exercise is pushing down on the accelerator pedal," the heartbeat is typically 150. "It's pure adrenalin. The start is very stressful for a driver."

The heartbeat races to 160 to 170 during the first few laps, when adrenalin is mixed with physical exertion. "When he is pushing hard, such as overtaking or trying to catch someone, the heartbeat is typically 170. When 'coasting', such as trying to maintain position, the heartbeat may drop to its race minimum, about 150."

...


Neck strength sets F1 drivers apart from other athletes. "I know of no other sport that places such big demands on the neck muscles. A head and F1 helmet together weigh about 6kg. Add about 4G as experienced when cornering in a Grand Prix, and the neck has to support 24kg. That's a lot." The average corner pushes the drivers at 2 to 5G.


No physical exertion, indeed :rolleyes:

race car drivers are as much as athletes as poker players


people who race on foot on the other hand, are athletes in my mind.

Damn, don't nobody ever read through the posts? Unlike your fat-assed poker players, drivers have to keep in shape as much as any OTHER athlete. Read son, read. Like someone else said, do a couple laps in a kart, it is pretty damned tiring. You have to be in awful good shape to keep that shit up for several hundred miles.

Yes and yes.
It's not called Motorsport for nothing.
Also, to all those who say the drivers don't have any physical exertion try and follow their fitness regimes, it may surprise you.