NationStates Jolt Archive

I wanted to see if anyone on here had the same anti communism veiws as me. I think that if a country like Cuba has that many people fleeing the country each year then communism should be taken out of that country, and clearly the people dont like Fidel so they should really start trying to eliminate communism from Cuba because i think a place like that could have good stuff coming to it. Also in Korea (Kim Jong Il or however you spell it) he is a horrible leader and should have been taken out of command when he kidnapped that director.

Now another problem with communism is the fact that if someone tries to speak out or protest the government turns their back and nine times out of ten kills the people which it completley unorthodox because they should listen to reasons, now im not saying that protesting is the way to get a point across they really should try to set up some time with someone in power or even a high point in polotics, and they should just discuss problems or a conflict they are having because thats not too hard.

Also everyone getting the same wages, ya im sure that it may come across as pretty good but when the wages then result to poverty then the country either
A)Print more money!
or
B)Spend less money on WMDs (not being stereotypical but common)
Now i think that if the dictator of a communist country notices this then they should try to find ways (what i said or other ones) to make this better because most communist countries are pretty poor and not well liked.

Now if there are any people who are against it or for it post what you think.

I wanted to see if anyone on here had the same anti communism veiws as me. I think that if a country like Cuba has that many people fleeing the country each year then communism should be taken out of that country, and clearly the people dont like Fidel so they should really start trying to eliminate communism from Cuba because i think a place like that could have good stuff coming to it. Also in Korea (Kim Jong Il or however you spell it) he is a horrible leader and should have been taken out of command when he kidnapped that director.

Now another problem with communism is the fact that if someone tries to speak out or protest the government turns their back and nine times out of ten kills the people which it completley unorthodox because they should listen to reasons, now im not saying that protesting is the way to get a point across they really should try to set up some time with someone in power or even a high point in polotics, and they should just discuss problems or a conflict they are having because thats not too hard.

Also everyone getting the same wages, ya im sure that it may come across as pretty good but when the wages then result to poverty then the country either
A)Print more money!
or
B)Spend less money on WMDs (not being stereotypical but common)
Now i think that if the dictator of a communist country notices this then they should try to find ways (what i said or other ones) to make this better because most communist countries are pretty poor and not well liked.

Now if there are any people who are against it or for it post what you think.

You realise the countries you describe aren't actually true Communist ones? Please tell me you do.

You realise the countries you describe aren't actually true Communist ones? Please tell me you do.

yes they are cuba is very much a communist country and so is korea

Communism is good in theory but doesn't work in reality.

Most of the problems you list are true of any authoritarian govt whether it is right or left wing.

And you can't just wander in and force a govt on a people you think they want. Has Iraq taught you nothing :rolleyes: .

You realise the countries you describe aren't actually true Communist ones? Please tell me you do.

They are Real-World Communist. It may not be what Marx had in mind, but it's what happened in every Communist country in the world, including the USSR and Red China.

when castro dies, cuba will most likely gradually abandonn communism. its better to wait for it to be done peacefully than to have a bloody revolution.

many (but certainly not all) the problems with cuba come from the viscious embargo set up by the united states. if we dropped that today life in cuba would improve and the number of people fleeing the regime would go down.

im all for the cuban people having whatever government they choose. i believe that the castro regime enjoys the support of the majority of the cuban people. when castro dies, things will change. we should wait for that and then encourage more freedoms through peaceful means.

oh if only i could be bothered to post....

i do love these uninformed anti-communist threads though... never get tired of them. honest.

Communism is good in theory but doesn't work in reality.

Most of the problems you list are true of any authoritarian govt whether it is right or left wing.

And you can't just wander in and force a govt on a people you think they want. Has Iraq taught you nothing :rolleyes: .

Iraq was a dictatorshit. And yes most of the problems i listed are in left and right wing but with communism its pretty much put out to the extreme poverty, i have seen pictures of soviet russia and louse(or however you spell it), not so much louse but also korea and china, they are very poor and very dirty. Now with right wing all of the democratic or even socialist countries they do have a slum but not near as bad as cuba, but on the other hand they have middle class and upper class which shows that without the same wages, if you work hard enough you can become middle or upper class.

I wanted to see if anyone on here had the same anti communism veiws as me. I think that if a country like Cuba has that many people fleeing the country each year then communism should be taken out of that country, and clearly the people dont like Fidel so they should really start trying to eliminate communism from Cuba because i think a place like that could have good stuff coming to it. Also in Korea (Kim Jong Il or however you spell it) he is a horrible leader and should have been taken out of command when he kidnapped that director.

Now another problem with communism is the fact that if someone tries to speak out or protest the government turns their back and nine times out of ten kills the people which it completley unorthodox because they should listen to reasons, now im not saying that protesting is the way to get a point across they really should try to set up some time with someone in power or even a high point in polotics, and they should just discuss problems or a conflict they are having because thats not too hard.

Also everyone getting the same wages, ya im sure that it may come across as pretty good but when the wages then result to poverty then the country either
A)Print more money!
or
B)Spend less money on WMDs (not being stereotypical but common)
Now i think that if the dictator of a communist country notices this then they should try to find ways (what i said or other ones) to make this better because most communist countries are pretty poor and not well liked.

Now if there are any people who are against it or for it post what you think.
So, when did you get back from your trip to Cuba and Korea?


Also, why nationstates only?

What about my "Veiws" on double threads?

What about my "Veiws" on double threads?
Double your postcount!
http://staff.betaxp.net/ben/forums/Locksville.jpg

Depending on whch version and how it is implemented it is either just plain misguided or downright evil.

Shut that orifice you call a mouth before it spews out any more ignorance. For fuck's sake, did it not occur to you that there are more people who stay than those who leave Cuba?

I'm not defending Fidel's regime, but from an objective standpoint it has brought many good things to Cuba. Healthcare in Cuba is astounding, their education system flaunts the US's system by a mile, they have some of the best athletes in the world.... the list goes on

Maybe you should do some research before making it so obvious what an ignorant lout you are. In true communism, there is no government. You hear that? no government. By deduction what does that tell you?

There has never been a truly communist state on planet earth.

Cuba is a socialist dictatorship. NK is also, with a bit less socialist and a bit more of despotism. China is about as communist as Adam Smith right now...

Maybe you should do some research before making it so obvious what an ignorant lout you are. In true communism, there is no government. You hear that? no government. By deduction what does that tell you?

I thought that was just anarcho-communism?

It’s anti-communist like you that make the rest of us look bad.

It’s not that I dislike communism, in its purest form it is a good thing and I don’t doubt that some sort of artificial society could generate the innate altruism in individuals necessary for it to work.

I just find it to be unfeasible. It will never happen, just like the far right’s wish to return to the gold standard will never happen.

Carefully regulated (not necessarily closely but dependant on the situation and industry) capitalism supporting a well-managed and pragmatic welfare state is able to alleviate the masses enough and breed a middle class large enough to make any desires for true communism minute and generally creates a great standard of living for its people (looking at you Switzerland, Sweden and Finland).

I've been to Cuba, and it's a nice place. Much nicer i suspect than some countries with other forms of government (im thinking Mexico). People emmigrate because there are job opportunties elsewhere, not because they hate communism.

Shut that orifice you call a mouth before it spews out any more ignorance. For fuck's sake, did it not occur to you that there are more people who stay than those who leave Cuba?
Pretty rude of you. Find it hard to be civil?

So, when did you get back from your trip to Cuba and Korea?


Also, why nationstates only?
This is a duplicate thread. There is another with the same title minus the "Nation States" bit.

They are Real-World Communist. It may not be what Marx had in mind, but it's what happened in every Communist country in the world, including the USSR and Red China.

Also wrong. It happened due to a centralization of power under one guy who didn't give it up. This happens whenever a revolution occurs, anywhere. Sometimes the revolutionary leader steps down after a few months as a provisional government (like Sulla for example), sometimes they stay in power for the rest of their lives, and even establish a monarchy (like Kim Sung Il and his son Kim Jong Il, or Fidel)

The point is, communism can't come forcefully, it has to be a soft transition from this to that. But capitalist-raised human beings (no matter if they are communists in their minds) are impatient. Lenin was, Castro was.. pretty much any communist revolutionary leader was... Except maybe Ernesto Guevara.

Very anticommunist.

oh if only i could be bothered to post....

i do love these uninformed anti-communist threads though... never get tired of them. honest.
I wish I could say the same, PM. Just more drivel to roll my eyes at.

I've been to Cuba, and it's a nice place. Much nicer i suspect than some countries with other forms of government (im thinking Mexico). People emmigrate because there are job opportunties elsewhere, not because they hate communism.

Ifreann: Communism distributes all things equally. That includes power. Therefore, any "communist" state with a leader is not really communist.

Europa: Ignorance pisses me off. 11 year olds who think they know everything piss me off even more, especially when all that "knowledge" is spoon-fed propaganda.

Europa: Ignorance pisses me off. 11 year olds who think they know everything piss me off even more, especially when all that "knowledge" is spoon-fed propaganda.
Ad-hominem attacks will get you nowhere.

Shut that orifice you call a mouth before it spews out any more ignorance. For fuck's sake, did it not occur to you that there are more people who stay than those who leave Cuba?

I'm not defending Fidel's regime, but from an objective standpoint it has brought many good things to Cuba. Healthcare in Cuba is astounding, their education system flaunts the US's system by a mile, they have some of the best athletes in the world.... the list goes on

Maybe you should do some research before making it so obvious what an ignorant lout you are. In true communism, there is no government. You hear that? no government. By deduction what does that tell you?

There has never been a truly communist state on planet earth.

Cuba is a socialist dictatorship. NK is also, with a bit less socialist and a bit more of despotism. China is about as communist as Adam Smith right now...

The US has a higher literacy and a greater life expectancy. This doesn't seem to back up what you say all that well.

Carefully regulated (not necessarily closely but dependant on the situation and industry) capitalism supporting a well-managed and pragmatic welfare state is able to alleviate the masses enough and breed a middle class large enough to make any desires for true communism minute and generally creates a great standard of living for its people (looking at you Switzerland, Sweden and Finland).
Sweden (and other countries who follow its system) are said to be on the course of a meltdown; the cost of integrating immigrants are becoming excessive, making new dependents on the welfare system. It will eventually overheat. Switzerland has a freer economy, and strikes a better balance in my view.

The US has a higher literacy and a greater life expectancy. This doesn't seem to back up what you say all that well.

Really? You also have to pay for your health, and there are people dying of starvation when your contry is supposedly the most prosperous in the world. If the U.S wasn't being such a bastard towards Cuba then the literacy and birthrates there would likely be even better.

Sweden (and other countries who follow its system) are said to be on the course of a meltdown; the cost of integrating immigrants are becoming excessive, making new dependents on the welfare system. It will eventually overheat. Switzerland has a freer economy, and strikes a better balance in my view.

said by who? you?

Liasia']said by who? you?
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/05/new-york-times-and-sweden-dark-side-of.html

I don't trust the credibility of that site too much, but the article is good. And in future, don't act so condescending. You just make an idiot of yourself.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/05/new-york-times-and-sweden-dark-side-of.html

I don't trust the credibility of that site too much, but the article is good. And in future, don't act so condescending. You just make an idiot of yourself.

I wasn't condescending, just asking y'know. As if i would:eek:

And in future, don't act so condescending. You just make an idiot of yourself.
Speaking from experience?

I wish I could say the same, PM. Just more drivel to roll my eyes at.
well you can, as long as you're being as sarcastic as i was ;)

well you can, as long as you're being as sarcastic as i was ;)
It's understood. Must log now, maybe catcha later...

Depending on whch version and how it is implemented it is either just plain misguided or downright evil.

That sums it up just about right.

Liasia']I wasn't condescending, just asking y'know. As if i would:eek:
Your tone would suggest otherwise though. Read the source and draw your own conclusions. I am not saying it is the absolute truth, but it offers an insight.

Originally opsted by Eoropa Maxima
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/20...k-side-of.html

I don't trust the credibility of that site too much, but the article is good.
This appears to be some sort of right wing anti-islamic site. Doesn't seem too reliable a source to me :( .

There has never been a truly communist state on planet earth.

Who's to say what true communism is, Louse is the closest and its pretty shitty there.

There has also never been true socialism, democracy or facism(damn them). If cuba has such a high education standard then how come they havent invented anything latley that can help us at all, why is this? Well I would be proud to answer that. If the government would stop being so narrow minded then im sure they could fund these "geniuses" to make something useful which will then be able to bring cuba out of poverty

This appears to be some sort of right wing anti-islamic site. Doesn't seem too reliable a source to me :( .
It is, I suppose. The article was taken from some other site I believe. The reporter who composed it is eminent.

Liasia']I've been to Cuba, and it's a nice place. Much nicer i suspect than some countries with other forms of government (im thinking Mexico). People emmigrate because there are job opportunties elsewhere, not because they hate communism.

Clearly you have never been to the residential part of cuba (if you go there you get shot). I've seen photos of this and they actually have 3 wall, no roof houses with a tarp to patch up the wall and the missing wall, they also have burlap sacks for doors.
Im sure that there are job opportunities elswhere but there are quite a few who are leaving for both of those reasons. The reasons pretty much tie together, they have basically all the same jobs in florida that they do in cuba but the people would get higher pay if they were in the democratic US which im sure they wouldnt mind.

The idea that doctors get the same compensation for their work and knowledge as a crossing guard would tend to make a society heavy in crossing guards. A society where everyone is equal in all ways does not work on the macro scale very well due to human nature. Least amount of work for the greatest reward.

The US has certain benchmarks, which, when followed, would end our embargo. It is our right as a free country to choose our trading partners, just like it is the right of any business in this country to, for nearly any reason, decide not to do business with an invidual. If a loud man came into your store proclaiming how he hated you and everything you stood for, and because of his disposition and control, you can either throw them all out or let them all in, what do you do? Neither answer is morally wrong, or right, really, so you do what you feel is in your store's best interest. Loosing that little bit of business, or allowing him to use your own merchandise against you.

*shrug*

The US has certain benchmarks, which, when followed, would end our embargo.

Yet America trades and does business with countries with countries at least as repressive as Cuba, if not more so. It has nothing to do with human rights, and everything about Cuba not doing what its told.

Clearly you have never been to the residential part of cuba (if you go there you get shot). I've seen photos of this and they actually have 3 wall, no roof houses with a tarp to patch up the wall and the missing wall, they also have burlap sacks for doors.
Im sure that there are job opportunities elswhere but there are quite a few who are leaving for both of those reasons. The reasons pretty much tie together, they have basically all the same jobs in florida that they do in cuba but the people would get higher pay if they were in the democratic US which im sure they wouldnt mind.

Alot of the anti-Cuba stuff is fabricated, like a video i read about somewhere where there was a shot of soldiers firing on a protesting cuban crowd. It was faked.

You seem to link prosperity with democracy. I don't see this to be true- the Roman empire wasn't democratic but it was sure as hell prosperous.

I beleive I have stated my veiws on this subject before: COMMIES ARE A BUNCH OF FREE-LOADING RADICALS!!! Just being born, doesn't give you the right to success, hard work, and plenty of it does. I work my arse off, and you take it!!! MY MONEY!!! "If everybody is equal, everybody is miserable" - Your's truly!

In principle I admire communism, but I think that it should never be tried. It never yeilds good results. A healthy mix of socialism and capitalism makes for the best results.

It’s not that I dislike communism, in its purest form it is a good thing and I don’t doubt that some sort of artificial society could generate the innate altruism in individuals necessary for it to work.
Do you think capitalism is any more "natural" than communism? Answer: it's not.

I beleive I have stated my veiws on this subject before: COMMIES ARE A BUNCH OF FREE-LOADING RADICALS!!! Just being born, doesn't give you the right to success, hard work, and plenty of it does. I work my arse off, and you take it!!! MY MONEY!!! "If everybody is equal, everybody is miserable" - Your's truly!

Maybe it entitles you to not starve to death on the streets tho eh? You don't need a washing machine and dryer, espeically while someone is dying in the same country.

And no government is anarchy every country with a government needs some sort of dictator.

And you know this, how? Whole lot of anarchist places to back that up huh? Every time it's been tried it's worked, and every time a capitalist country ends up forcing them to join it.

Cuba also has better education standards than the US because there are more people in the US and most of them are dumb fucks.

An effect of a bad educational system. To an extent, even the "there are more people" could be attributed to a faulty ed sys.

I didn't see Cuba invent anything useful in the past how many years. Why? Because no one gets enough government funding to do any of this because everyone gets the same wager and thats the problem with communism, if the dictators would stop being so narrow minded then im sure that with enough funding cuba (with their high education standards) could invent something usefull.

Have you seen anything be invented ever? Probably not. Have you seen any other small, third world capitalist country invent anything either? Didn't think so. When was the last time Jamaica contributed to science? Columbia? The Dominican Republic? Ecuador?

All these countries and Cuba have a lot more important problems to solve using their educated people than inventing random stuff to look good.

The US has certain benchmarks, which, when followed, would end our embargo. It is our right as a free country to choose our trading partners, just like it is the right of any business in this country to, for nearly any reason, decide not to do business with an invidual. If a loud man came into your store proclaiming how he hated you and everything you stood for, and because of his disposition and control, you can either throw them all out or let them all in, what do you do? Neither answer is morally wrong, or right, really, so you do what you feel is in your store's best interest. Loosing that little bit of business, or allowing him to use your own merchandise against you.

Because Cuba hates America and everything it stands for? I love how anybody who pisses off america suddenly starts hating freedom and just wants to get power. How about you apply some logic there huh big boy? Why the hell would anyone hate freedom? (and no, neither communism nor islam "hate freedom" any more than judaism hates cheese).

God forbid the cubans ever get their hands on american-made yogurt :rolleyes:

There has never been a truly communist state on planet earth.

Who's to say what true communism is, Louse is the closest and its pretty shitty there.

There has also never been true socialism, democracy or facism(damn them). If cuba has such a high education standard then how come they havent invented anything latley that can help us at all, why is this? Well I would be proud to answer that. If the government would stop being so narrow minded then im sure they could fund these "geniuses" to make something useful which will then be able to bring cuba out of poverty

It's Laos, goddamit. Laos. True Communism would be that based on Marx's works, basically, even though they are more of an economic works. As to why there have been no inventions, well, the US blockade doesn't really help matters despite its irrationality. The same goes for having a paranoid, totalitarian leader in Cuba - who isn't actually Communist.

Have you actually read any of Marx and Engels work? Whilst I haven't personally, I do have enough information to realise that these states are not Communist, and that a true Communist state has never been achieved. Well, there was the USSR under Lenin, that's about the closest there's been.

Well, there was the USSR under Lenin, that's about the closest there's been.

Well, I dont think even he tried to claim what he was running was communist. He knew what communism was, and he knew the USSR wasnt it. He may have believed they were on a route towards it, and what he was doing was necessary for it to occur.

I wanted to see if anyone on here had the same anti communism veiws as me. I think that if a country like Cuba has that many people fleeing the country each year then communism should be taken out of that country, and clearly the people dont like Fidel so they should really start trying to eliminate communism from Cuba because i think a place like that could have good stuff coming to it. Also in Korea (Kim Jong Il or however you spell it) he is a horrible leader and should have been taken out of command when he kidnapped that director.

Now another problem with communism is the fact that if someone tries to speak out or protest the government turns their back and nine times out of ten kills the people which it completley unorthodox because they should listen to reasons, now im not saying that protesting is the way to get a point across they really should try to set up some time with someone in power or even a high point in polotics, and they should just discuss problems or a conflict they are having because thats not too hard.

Also everyone getting the same wages, ya im sure that it may come across as pretty good but when the wages then result to poverty then the country either
A)Print more money!
or
B)Spend less money on WMDs (not being stereotypical but common)
Now i think that if the dictator of a communist country notices this then they should try to find ways (what i said or other ones) to make this better because most communist countries are pretty poor and not well liked.

Now if there are any people who are against it or for it post what you think.

Better dead than red. I'm 110% anti-communist because if I recall correctly, Nikita Kruschev said "We will crush you" at the UN to the US back in the 60's.

Too bad we won though...:D

Well, I dont think even he tried to claim what he was running was communist. He knew what communism was, and he knew the USSR wasnt it. He may have believed they were on a route towards it, and what he was doing was necessary for it to occur.

Indeed so. I only studied it briefly in GCSE History, and that was a while ago...

I am a communist. I believe that a lot of bad has been done in the name of communism, but I think it is a progressive force in the developing world, excluding the failure of North Korea. While power is concentrated mainly in Fidel Castro in Cuba, there is a small amount of political freedom, and at least the government of Fidel Castro has helped Cuba push forward in health care and education. You can't compare America to Cuba, because of their limited resources and infastructure. It is much more accurate to compare Cuba to the rest of Latin America, and anybody can see Cuba is far better than most Latin American countries. You bring up the issue of emmigration, but many Mexicans leave their CAPITALIST country. China is rapidly growing, and while they have employed capitalist measures, they remain socialist in the form of improving the country for the people, and rural development is on the rise. Communists are active in the government of Indian and Nepal, both democratically and militarily. The Communist Party of India was just elected in Kerala and West Bengal. So I say, communism is not perfect in practice, but it is certainly preferable compared to the sorry state of impoverished capitalist nations.

Better dead than red. I'm 110% anti-communist because if I recall correctly, Nikita Kruschev said "We will crush you" at the UN to the US back in the 60's.

Too bad we won though...:D

So one politician makes a blustery remark and you automatically hate an entire ideology?

Originally posted by Michaelic France
You can't compare America to Cuba, because of their limited resources and infastructure. It is much more accurate to compare Cuba to the rest of Latin America, and anybody can see Cuba is far better than most Latin American countries. You bring up the issue of emmigration, but many Mexicans leave their CAPITALIST country.
Well said :) .

Now another problem with communism is the fact that if someone tries to speak out or protest the government turns their back and nine times out of ten kills the people which it completley unorthodox because they should listen to reasons...
That's an interesting statistic... Where'd you get it?

Print more money!
Issuing new currency just lowers the worth of the money; it works exactly like company stock. The poor will stay just as poor, and the people who have money saved up suddenly find their reserves worth far less. It has happened many times throughout history, in Germany after WWI, or the Confederacy's Confederate Dollar falling by 1000% through the five years it existed. Raising minimum wage also decreases the value of currency.

Better dead than red. I'm 110% anti-communist because if I recall correctly, Nikita Kruschev said "We will crush you" at the UN to the US back in the 60's.

Too bad we won though...:D
I liked Nikita Kruschev for that quote! Only because he the table with his shoe as he said it, though. You can see the shoe in this picture: http://www.informationsbewaeltigung.de/Khrushchev.jpg

I'm getting the strangest feeling of déjà vu from reading this thread.



I'm getting the strangest feeling of déjà vu from reading this thread.

Why two different threads on the same subject at the same time? :confused: I don't see the difference.

Better dead than red. I'm 110% anti-communist because if I recall correctly, Nikita Kruschev said "We will crush you" at the UN to the US back in the 60's.

Too bad we won though...
:eek:
COMMIE!!!

*flees*

Me neither, I just saw this one first.

Oooh... Merged thread! :fluffle:

Yet America trades and does business with countries with countries at least as repressive as Cuba, if not more so. It has nothing to do with human rights, and everything about Cuba not doing what its told.

I'll be the first to admit that that the Embargos aren't equal, choosing not to do business with a country harms our country as well. Embargoing the Saudis would be a good idea but it isn't very practical, for instance. At least, not until we've moved away from energy that OPEC can easily damage.

We do currently embargo Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Liberia, Libya, Burma, Sierra Leone, Sudan, and Syria.. They are some of the worst offenders on the front of basic Human rights, and regulating foreign powers is one of the powers we invested in congress.

Is Cuba repressive? Does the government have the enumerated right to regulate trade?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/30/world/main658417.shtml
For the 13th year in a row, the United Nations General Assembly approved a resolution condemning the U.S. embargo. The vote in favor of the Cuba-sponsored resolution was 179-4. The four opposing votes came from the United States, Israel, Palau and the Marshall Islands. The vote last year was almost identical, 179 in favor, 3 against with two abstentions. The embargo has been in effect since 1962.

if the rest of the world opposes the embargo, why don't they trade with them.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107443.html
Major trading partners: Netherlands, Canada, China, Russia, Spain, Venezuela, U.S., Italy, Mexico (2004).

..wait, you mean the US embargo only means the US can't trade with Cuba? You mean the economy of a country with only 11 million people can't possibly be successful because one country refuses to trade with it?

Bah. I call bull. The economy is broken because Castro broke it. You can be rich if the US refuses to do business with you. Cuba has been, since the revolution, one failing state propped up by another failing state. When the Soviet Union stopped sending large amounts of free money, their economy crashed. It wasn't because of US actions, it was because of the combination of a strong but poorly organized central government combined with a system that said that personal property is no good. There is a reason the "special economic zones" in China are doing so much better than the rest of the country. Captiltalism works.

Liasia']Maybe it entitles you to not starve to death on the streets tho eh? You don't need a washing machine and dryer, espeically while someone is dying in the same country.


hunger can be solved without making everyone poor.

Because Cuba hates America and everything it stands for? I love how anybody who pisses off america suddenly starts hating freedom and just wants to get power. How about you apply some logic there huh big boy? Why the hell would anyone hate freedom? (and no, neither communism nor islam "hate freedom" any more than judaism hates cheese).

God forbid the cubans ever get their hands on american-made yogurt :rolleyes:

Never said that Cuba hates America.. Obviously it can't hate it too much for the large number of people who try to get here from there, despite nature putting a reasonably nice fence between the countries. It's Castro who has no love of the US. It's not really possible to help the people and not help the state. It's our choice, as a country, not to help the state.

:eek:
COMMIE!!!

*flees*

Am I dyslexic somehow and managed to spell COMMIE in my screenname? DESIGNATEDMARKSMAN. I don't even see a C.

BWAHAHAHA! :D

I liked Nikita Kruschev for that quote! Only because he the table with his shoe as he said it, though. You can see the shoe in this picture: http://www.informationsbewaeltigung.de/Khrushchev.jpg

Well the only thing he ended up crushing was that fly on his desk and waking up the sleeping UN delegate in front of him!

So one politician makes a blustery remark and you automatically hate an entire ideology?

Not just Krushschev, but Stalin, Mao, Trotsky, Lenin, Gorbachev, marx, Engels, Ceachesque, Idi Amin, etc.

I am a communist. I believe that a lot of bad has been done in the name of communism, but I think it is a progressive force in the developing world, excluding the failure of North Korea. While power is concentrated mainly in Fidel Castro in Cuba, there is a small amount of political freedom, and at least the government of Fidel Castro has helped Cuba push forward in health care and education. You can't compare America to Cuba, because of their limited resources and infastructure. It is much more accurate to compare Cuba to the rest of Latin America, and anybody can see Cuba is far better than most Latin American countries. You bring up the issue of emmigration, but many Mexicans leave their CAPITALIST country. China is rapidly growing, and while they have employed capitalist measures, they remain socialist in the form of improving the country for the people, and rural development is on the rise. Communists are active in the government of Indian and Nepal, both democratically and militarily. The Communist Party of India was just elected in Kerala and West Bengal. So I say, communism is not perfect in practice, but it is certainly preferable compared to the sorry state of impoverished capitalist nations.
Mexico is the result of decades of corruption, 70 years of leadership under the Partido Revolucionario Institucional, which I might mention, is a member of Socialist International.

In any case, their little bit of Totalitarian heaven had little to do with a functioning democracy.

That's an interesting statistic... Where'd you get it?


Issuing new currency just lowers the worth of the money; it works exactly like company stock. The poor will stay just as poor, and the people who have money saved up suddenly find their reserves worth far less. It has happened many times throughout history, in Germany after WWI, or the Confederacy's Confederate Dollar falling by 1000% through the five years it existed. Raising minimum wage also decreases the value of currency.

On the up side, the poor can become the rich in America.. look at Bill Clinton or Bill Gates. You can even try to save the world, like MC Hammer did when he employeed the large number of people who were his friends, only to loose his fortune. *shrug* Having money lets you start businesses so people have jobs, the number job jobs will largely expand to fit the available number of workers. Communism is often sold on everyone becoming equally rich but it ends up everyone becomes equally poor. The incentive for advancement just isn't there.

Not just Krushschev, but Stalin, Mao, Trotsky, Lenin, Gorbachev, marx, Engels, Ceachesque, Idi Amin, etc.
Wow, you must have read every blustery speech ever written. So please elucidate - what, for example, most set your teeth on edge... what made you really hate Communism - in the speeches (and, of course I'll cede to your no doubt volumnuous knowledge of the subject-at-hand and allow you to be far more specific than I) of Mikhail Gorbachev? What did he say that made your blood boil, DM?

In practice, it's a total failure but in theory a noble experiment. However, since the conditions necessary for the success of Communism do not exist in human society it will remain a failure. Some of their ideas were good and were successfully integrated in to the capitalist model, but most of them will not leave the dustbin of history and for the better.

The good ideas that came out of Communist theory have survived and thrived, and they should by all means be credited to the founders of the various movements. However, given the inevitable slide of Communist societies in to repression, environmental devastation, and social dissolution it is best that communists never rule a nation again...most of their policies just plain don't work.

Wow, you must have read every blustery speech ever written. So please elucidate - what, for example, most set your teeth on edge... what made you really hate Communism - in the speeches (and, of course I'll cede to your no doubt volumnuous knowledge of the subject-at-hand and allow you to be far more specific than I) of Mikhail Gorbachev? What did he say that made your blood boil, DM?

as a poor person, I rather don't like that it takes away the opertunity to become rich. ^^

...but all the cool kids are communists.

Wow, you must have read every blustery speech ever written. So please elucidate - what, for example, most set your teeth on edge... what made you really hate Communism - in the speeches (and, of course I'll cede to your no doubt volumnuous knowledge of the subject-at-hand and allow you to be far more specific than I) of Mikhail Gorbachev? What did he say that made your blood boil, DM?

Not just speech, actions. They can vent all day and it wouldn't bother me. But the fact stalin murdered millions and Mao 50 million. They spoke about crushing the evil imperialists, (in their eyes, the US) and they did try to back it up. Thankfully it turned on them.

...but all the cool kids are communists.
Not this one...

I wanted to see if anyone on here had the same anti communism veiws as me. I think that if a country like Cuba has that many people fleeing the country each year then communism should be taken out of that country, and clearly the people dont like Fidel so they should really start trying to eliminate communism from Cuba because i think a place like that could have good stuff coming to it.

*Ahem*

I wanted to see if anyone on here had the same anti capitalism veiws as me. I think that if a country like Mexico has that many people fleeing the country each year then communism should be taken out of that country, and clearly the people dont like Fox so they should really start trying to eliminate capitalism from Mexico because i think a place like that could have good stuff coming to it.

Also in Korea (Kim Jong Il or however you spell it) he is a horrible leader and should have been taken out of command when he kidnapped that director.

Also in America (George W Bshu or however you spell it) he is a horrible leader and should have been taken out of command when he lied to the public about Iraq's WMDs.

Off to bed now. I'll mock the rest later. :D

The best thing communism ever did for the world: The Ak47.

:D

*Ahem*

I wanted to see if anyone on here had the same anti capitalism veiws as me. I think that if a country like Mexico has that many people fleeing the country each year then communism should be taken out of that country, and clearly the people dont like Fox so they should really start trying to eliminate capitalism from Mexico because i think a place like that could have good stuff coming to it.


He's so unpopular that his party is leading the polls ... again, despite that it's going up against 2 Socialist parties.


Also in America (George W Bshu or however you spell it) he is a horrible leader and should have been taken out of command when he lied to the public about Iraq's WMDs.

Off to bed now. I'll mock the rest later. :D

The US is doing about as well economically as ever. The army has record reenlistment rates, unemployment is down, and Iraq has a popularly elected government. We haven't had a successful terrorist attack in this country in 5 years. Terrible leadership, terrible.

Although, really, I would like to get him out of office, and replace him with an actual Republican. Perferably, one who understood the importance of the government remaining Secular.

Liasia']Alot of the anti-Cuba stuff is fabricated, like a video i read about somewhere where there was a shot of soldiers firing on a protesting cuban crowd. It was faked.

You seem to link prosperity with democracy. I don't see this to be true- the Roman empire wasn't democratic but it was sure as hell prosperous.

I personally am more of a pro-socialist because of the free health care and the fact that people are actually treated well. The roman empire didnt have guns or dugs either and thats what most of the communist countries around mexico and south america are run on

*Ahem*

I wanted to see if anyone on here had the same anti capitalism veiws as me. I think that if a country like Mexico has that many people fleeing the country each year then communism should be taken out of that country, and clearly the people dont like Fox so they should really start trying to eliminate capitalism from Mexico because i think a place like that could have good stuff coming to it.



Also in America (George W Bshu or however you spell it) he is a horrible leader and should have been taken out of command when he lied to the public about Iraq's WMDs.

Off to bed now. I'll mock the rest later. :D

Youre a **** and i never said ANYTHING about bush being good I think hes an idiot. Socialism and Anarchy are the way to go and you should stop bitching about bush because he didnt run that country into the ground (Fidel and Ernesto with Cuba) because it was actually pretty good before a drug dealer came in and then took most of their money and didnt spread it around like he should (In Marx' opinion). Fidel was just declared one of the richest men in the world with 900 million dollars invested in the bank. If you ask me that money should be used to put another wall on the houses and maybe a roof if he can spare it.

The best thing communism ever did for the world: The Ak47.

:D
haha so true

The roman empire didnt have guns
Yes, but they had swords. And Rome was only socialist in that its own people enjoyed a good level of life. After it started buggering the Empire up, it all went downhill.

Troublesome Hermits - The economy is a means to an end, not the end itself. And actually, the US is in ludicrous amounts of debt, due to possibly the most stupid war in history.

And I'm worried that the American education system produces people like you - no terrorist attacks in five years?

At what point in the American calender is September before May?

And possibly - just possibly - that's because the US has already got enough support for a war over resources, and doesn't feel the need to blow its own citizens up any more.

Also - the government might well be elected, but the entirety of its reign is some of the green zone and a couple of office blocks. It compares pretty well to the entirety of Nazi Germany's control of itself by early May 1945, to be honest. There is still a civil war out on the streets, and things aren't any better for the average Iraqi citizen than they were under Saddam.

*edits*

Bench Informers - you do realise that Cuba is not actually that bad for the people living there, as long as they don't vocally oppose Castro, right?

I've been there on holiday, and travelled about the land a bit, and it actually seemed alright, if nothing special, which is essentially the US' fault for imposing sanctions because it's a shitty loser.

[QUOTE=Hispanionla]And you know this, how? Whole lot of anarchist places to back that up huh? Every time it's been tried it's worked, and every time a capitalist country ends up forcing them to join it.

Are you seriously telling me that anarchy has worked everytime?
Germany after World War 1 was in anarchy and it went even farther into the ground but then when there was an actual election it put itself back up and became what it was before Adolf Schickelgruber was elected and then another war broke out

Bench Informers - you do realise that Cuba is not actually that bad for the people living there, as long as they don't vocally oppose Castro, right?

Yes but as I will post for the second time, you haven't been to the residential areas because if you go there you get shot or kidbapped and they should have every right to oppose the governmeny because Castro told them that if he ever gets out of hand shoot him. Yet time after time he gets out of hand and when the people try to overthrow him they all die.

OK DUMBASSES! COMMUNISM IS AN ECONOMIC THING. IT IS NOT A STYLE OF GOVERNMENT YOU STUPID WESTERN CAPITALIST PIGS.

Communist states of the world often get AUTHORITARIAN or TOTALITARIAN forms of government becuase communism is easy to exploit like that. Communism can alos be combined with a democracy. Its because humans are assholes and stupid that it doesnt work. However socialism does. And capitalist societies can easily become AUTHORITARIAN too, like in america, it just doesnt seem like it because the AUTHORITARIAN power, lies within the CORPORATION.:headbang:

Bench Informers - you do realise that Cuba is not actually that bad for the people living there, as long as they don't vocally oppose Castro, right?
.

Yeah they just take all your money and won't let you leave while you work for the good of the state *cough* I meant country.

Communist states of the world often get AUTHORITARIAN or TOTALITARIAN forms of government becuase communism is easy to exploit like that. :

You know Marx said we specifically need a dictatorship in order to crush those capitalist bourgouis pigs who won't be happy losing all their stuff. :rolleyes: Real exploitation of his ideas to form a totalitarian regim, it'll help us in the long run ;)

Are you seriously telling me that anarchy has worked everytime?
Germany after World War 1 was in anarchy and it went even farther into the ground but then when there was an actual election it put itself back up and became what it was before Adolf Schickelgruber was elected and then another war broke out
The Weimar Republic was actually quite rubbish. They had hyperinflation, plenty of attempted revolutions, and a system of government that meant that nothing at all got done without the various presidents using emergency powers, which made a mockery of what was supposed to be a democratic country. Yes, it was quite good 1926-1929, other than the beaurocracy, but as soon as the Wall Street Crash hit, it all webt to buggery.

Oh and Beach Informers - you are so horribly, horribly wrong. I went through the residential areas, and the worse that happened to me is that someone tried to sell me coccaine. And the dealer didn't really mind when I said no.

Have you ever actually been there, or are you getting this from the US State Department's usual propaganda feed?

Not just speech, actions. They can vent all day and it wouldn't bother me. But the fact stalin murdered millions and Mao 50 million. They spoke about crushing the evil imperialists, (in their eyes, the US) and they did try to back it up. Thankfully it turned on them.
So in other words... you got nothin'. You lumped in poor ol' Gorby for no damn good reason. You sir, are not just an asshat; you are a widemouthed, braying asshat.

Good day to you.