NationStates Jolt Archive

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,417492,00.html
With the World Cup just a few weeks away, stories about neo-Nazi violence in Germany are suddenly everywhere. On Monday, new figures suggest that far-right crime in the country is on the rise -- much of it in former East Germany.

Well, the World Cup will start soon, and just as things usually go - now the big debate about a rise in racially motivated attacks and so on starts off, after some recent high-profile beatings.

The question is though - what do you do with this brainless scum, which quit school after Year 9, has no intention of ever getting a job or anything like that, and spend their time thinking that the world is unfair because it values brain over brawn.

How do you stop Neonazism?

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2024935,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2027025,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1972821,00.html

Education. And those who fail at it get death.

Well, you never said a humane way to fight it.

I know! Create a giant camp, where they can be centralised and put to work. Of course they will be treated well, or at least that's what we'll tell you.

why are you discriminating against these people?

these are people that are living their lifes.

*not my actual feelings on the subject*

*not my actual feelings on the subject*
Kinda pointless posting that then, isn't it?

Oh, I see. Giving yourself an 'out'.

Sad.

Write something like "Springtime for Hitler" that usually works.

You could have someone pretend to be a neonazi (unofficially of course) and encourage their tendencies, suggesting particular hate crimes, which will actually be set-ups. Once you have the evidence required you can convict them. Thence you have them "transferred" to another location, where they are executed.

Kinda pointless posting that then, isn't it?

Oh, I see. Giving yourself an 'out'.

Sad.

if you really want to get inot it

there is no point in posting anything on these forums

i dont think you will ever change anyones opinion on any subject

and your not going to change the world your bitching about on these forums.

if you really want to get inot it
pass.

You could have someone pretend to be a neonazi (unofficially of course) and encourage their tendencies, suggesting particular hate crimes, which will actually be set-ups. Once you have the evidence required you can convict them.
The German "Verfassungsschutz" (domestic secret service) tried to do that with the NPD, a Neonazi Party. By the time the case for the party to be declared illegal came before a court, the judge had to throw it out because virtually everyone in the top ranks had something to do with the agents...:D

I'm sure there are cleverer ways to "disappear" people. That was just the first thing that came to mind.

With love rainbows and carebear stares?

With love rainbows and carebear stares?
How about sending Barney or the Teletubbies out on them? Oh wait, that will only make them all the more convinced of their views.

How do you stop Neonazism?

petrol bombs

Educate people about the racist lies which Neonazi groups feed off. Explain how many mainstream parties use these same lies to benefit themselves.

Gain support from local community.

Stop them from organising, marching and speaking in public. Through violence if necessarry.

Stop them from organising, marching and speaking in public. Through violence if necessarry.
Why violence? If they act violently, then they may be incarcerated. If you fight fire with fire, as in this case, you are degrading yourself to your enemy's level.

This was my hometown after 200 neonazis wanted to have a demonstration and 5000 people were against it.

http://test.jg-stadtmitte.de/brphome/images/stories/100_2127.jpg

Next time, just don't let them protest. It's not worth all the cost.

(Or - even better - don't let the cops show up to protect that scum. There won't be a next time, then...)

Stop them from organising, marching and speaking in public. Through violence if necessarry.
Like they did to the communists when they were in power.
Oh, I forgot, you're right so it's not the same thing.

Why violence? If they act violently, then they may be incarcerated. If you fight fire with fire, as in this case, you are degrading yourself to your enemy's level.

Because the police are not our friends. We can't rely on them to defend us, more often than not they protect the fascists.

Ultimately this is self-defence. When we allow a far-right group (even a supposedly democratic one) to gain power, we allow them to take control of an area. More often than not you see racial attacks increase after the election of the BNP in an area of Britain. I'm not going to sit back and watch as minorities are beaten and killed in the name of 'free speech' or whatever middle-class bollocks people use to justify allowing them to continue operating.

Like they did to the communists when they were in power.
Oh, I forgot, you're right so it's not the same thing.
Don't question the Reds.

Because the police are not our friends. We can't rely on them to defend us, more often than not they protect the fascists.
My dislike for the State (especially when overgrown) would lead me to agree with you. I do not believe they would protect the fascists though, unless they were defending their right to free speech.

Ultimately this is self-defence. When we allow a far-right group (even a supposedly democratic one) to gain power, we allow them to take control of an area. More often than not you see racial attacks increase after the election of the BNP in an area of Britain. I'm not going to sit back and watch as minorities are beaten and killed in the name of 'free speech' or whatever middle-class bollocks people use to justify allowing them to continue operating.
The EU and Britain both have strong laws pertaining to aggressions of a racial nature. Justice is the avenue which one should pursue, not grunt-like "an eye for an eye". Violence is not within the ambit of free speech. Therefore, I would dismiss your position.

My dislike for the State (especially when overgrown) would lead me to disagree with you. I do not believe they would protect the fascists though, unless they were defending their right to free speech.
Your dislike of the state makes you disagree with me? Confusing but whatever.

Yes, they protect fascists in the name of "free speech". That means they're still allowing them to spread their hatred, cause violence between communities, and allow them to walk off free so they can go drinking and pakibashing.

At a recent attempted NF march the police cancelled it in the morning, but then stood outside the pub the fash were drinking in. Sounds like protecting them to me.


The EU and Britain both have strong laws pertaining to aggressions of a racial nature. Justice is the avenue which one should pursue, not grunt-like "an eye for an eye". Violence is not within the ambit of free speech. Therefore, I would dismiss your position.

OMG Im sorry, I forgot that we had laws! Its not like people... BREAK laws is it? Or even bend them from time to time?
If we can't get a conviction for Griffin despite all he's been caught saying on camera then these laws are pretty weak, and in any case we should still not depend on the state to protect us, because the state doesnt represent us and never will.
I didn't say i support violence in the name of free speech. I say I don't care about the fascist rights to "free speech" because it invariably leads to people who listen to it turning to violence against homosexuals, ethnic minorities, immigrants, etc.
When we allow these movements to grow (ie we give them their right to free speech, free assembly, etc) bad things happen. I don't know how much simpler I can say it.

Your dislike of the state makes you disagree with me? Confusing but whatever.
Sorry, fixed the error.

Yes, they protect fascists in the name of "free speech". That means they're still allowing them to spread their hatred, cause violence between communities, and allow them to walk off free so they can go drinking and pakibashing.
Got any proof of this? And by proof, I mean concrete stuff, like law journals reviewing the actions of the state's agents.

At a recent attempted NF march the police cancelled it in the morning, but then stood outside the pub the fash were drinking in. Sounds like protecting them to me.
A march is not violence. Why should they do anything?


OMG Im sorry, I forgot that we had laws! Its not like people... BREAK laws is it? Or even bend them from time to time?
If we can't get a conviction for Griffin despite all he's been caught saying on camera then these laws are pretty weak, and in any case we should still not depend on the state to protect us, because the state doesnt represent us and never will.
Why should he be convicted for exercising his right to the freedom of speech?

I didn't say i support violence in the name of free speech. I say I don't care about the fascist rights to "free speech" because it invariably leads to people who listen to it turning to violence against homosexuals, ethnic minorities, immigrants, etc.
When we allow these movements to grow (ie we give them their right to free speech, free assembly, etc) bad things happen. I don't know how much simpler I can say it.
The government has no right to silence people just for saying things. Free speech is one of the few freedoms we have left. If the government can silence fascists, it can then silence other groups it disagrees with. Opposition is effectively incapacitated.

Got any proof of this? And by proof, I mean concrete stuff, like law journals reviewing the actions of the state's agents.

I don't think you got my point. Im trying to say that when they protect these fascists right to free speech they are protecting these other things.


A march is not violence. Why should they do anything?

Bradford riots. NF tried to march, were banned from doing so by the state. Assembled anyway. A bunch of nice little anti nazi pacifists put on a march anyway. A member of the NF stabbed an asian man and sparked a massive riot.


Why should he be convicted for exercising his right to the freedom of speech?

As I have already said repeatedly, allowing him his right to free speech will lead to intimidation and violence against minorities. Not by him, but by the people who listen to him and take his vile racist bullshit to heart.

But he shouldn't be arrested by the government, we have to silence the bastard ourselves.


The government has no right to silence people just for saying things. Free speech is one of the few freedoms we have left. If the government can silence fascists, it can then silence other groups it disagrees with. Opposition is effectively incapacitated.

EXACTLY! And thats why I said the government shouldnt do anything! Typically measures that have been used to weaken and destroy fascist parties have also been used against communists. I dont trust or like the government and I dont want them to do a damn thing. I think its the job of the local community to smash nazis.

I don't think you got my point. Im trying to say that when they protect these fascists right to free speech they are protecting these other things.
I get your point, I just don't agree with it.

Bradford riots. NF tried to march, were banned from doing so by the state. Assembled anyway. A bunch of nice little anti nazi pacifists put on a march anyway. A member of the NF stabbed an asian man and sparked a massive riot.
Then the police in question should be reprimanded for this, and punished accordingly.

As I have already said repeatedly, allowing him his right to free speech will lead to intimidation and violence against minorities. Not by him, but by the people who listen to him and take his vile racist bullshit to heart.

Then they should bear blame, not him. If they are too stupid to distinguish truth from lies, they deserve the punishment meted out on them.

But he shouldn't be arrested by the government, we have to silence the bastard ourselves.

EXACTLY! And thats why I said the government shouldnt do anything! Typically measures that have been used to weaken and destroy fascist parties have also been used against communists. I dont trust or like the government and I dont want them to do a damn thing. I think its the job of the local community to smash nazis.
I am sorry, but I disagree. The government should be more accountable for its failings, but responding in kind to violence only foments it. And by the way, I bear no sympathy for radical Communists either, to be clear.

I get your point, I just don't agree with it.

A key aspect of fascism is violence. By allowing people to talk openly about fascism, you allow them to encourage personal violence. It may not be openly declared in public by the neo-fascist organisations, but why do you think it is members of the BNP and the NF who vandalise jewish cemeteries, push dogshit through letterboxes, squeal with delight at thought of killing muslims coming out from friday prayers and nailbomb pubs?


Then the police in question should be reprimanded for this, and punished accordingly.


But this is what happens with a state ban on fascist marches. The fascists will still mobilise and do something, even if they dont march. The BNP recently proved this when one of their marches was cancelled and they just went door to door leafletting instead.


Then they should bear blame, not him. If they are too stupid to distinguish truth from lies, they deserve the punishment meted out on them.


The lies are always out there, always being put across everywhere. You dont think the national media plays on racist lies then you're the one who cannot distinguish truth from lies.


I am sorry, but I disagree. The government should be more accountable for its failings, but responding in kind to violence only foments it.

Damn straight the government should be accountable for its failings, but this idea that fighting the fascists with violence will foment it furhter is bollocks. There is no practical side to that argument. Its all high-minded vague nonsense. If you stop fascists from being able to organise or spread their lies then how can they respond in kind? If a mass movement is able to destroy a fascist party's ability to grow, recruit, march, petition, leaflet or protest, then we have destroyed that party's ability to function properly.

And by the way, I bear no sympathy for radical Communists either, to be clear.

Ah the classic argument that communists are just as bad as nazis. Ignores all the facts, but whatever makes you feel nice and comfy in that little capitalist dreamworld you inhabit.

A key aspect of fascism is violence. By allowing people to talk openly about fascism, you allow them to encourage personal violence. It may not be openly declared in public by the neo-fascist organisations, but why do you think it is members of the BNP and the NF who vandalise jewish cemeteries, push dogshit through letterboxes, squeal with delight at thought of killing muslims coming out from friday prayers and nailbomb pubs?
So while were at it, let's not be hypocrites, and jail anyone, be they Muslim, Nazi, or Christian, or Black, whose comments are thought to promote violence.

But this is what happens with a state ban on fascist marches. The fascists will still mobilise and do something, even if they dont march. The BNP recently proved this when one of their marches was cancelled and they just went door to door leafletting instead.
Then how effective is banning the thing? Utterly useless.


The lies are always out there, always being put across everywhere. You dont think the national media plays on racist lies then you're the one who cannot distinguish truth from lies.

Do you have any academic evidence of the media's role in racism? This time I want a link.

Damn straight the government should be accountable for its failings, but this idea that fighting the fascists with violence will foment it furhter is bollocks. There is no practical side to that argument. Its all high-minded vague nonsense. If you stop fascists from being able to organise or spread their lies then how can they respond in kind? If a mass movement is able to destroy a fascist party's ability to grow, recruit, march, petition, leaflet or protest, then we have destroyed that party's ability to function properly.
They can respond by doing so covertly. You must be one of those "bomb the terrorists all the way to hell" kinda people. In some cases, answering in kind simply does not work.

Ah the classic argument that communists are just as bad as nazis. Ignores all the facts, but whatever makes you feel nice and comfy in that little capitalist dreamworld you inhabit.
Excuse me, but I never said anything of the sort. I am more willing than most to hear out Communist arguments, without resorting to the "You're worse than them dar Nazis" response. What I meant, is I disapprove of Communist driven violence.

DHomme, you advocate violence and denial of basic rights against a specific political minority.

Therefore you fall into the same category they do, exactly the same.

Now, while I do agree with the spirit of your intent...and see no other reasonable and effective way to combat them--you can not advocate their style of action and still claim moral high ground.

You and them are moral equals--both reduced to the lowest common denominator--Violence and Hate.

Again I agree with your tactic I simply do not see it as being morally correct....it is effectively needed.

Besides DHomme's suggestions there is no way to combat the Neo-Nazi movement. Simply put if want to get down with these people you need to actually make a sacrifice and join the fight, abandon your ideals of self rightgeousness.

Meh. Just out-talk, out-think, and out-wit them at every turn, and keep on doing it 'til they slink off, cheeks burning with shame for the lifetimes they've wasted on this drivel, hands clenched in useless fists of rage.

Come on, they're fucking Nazis - not fucking Mensa.

So while were at it, let's not be hypocrites, and jail anyone, be they Muslim, Nazi, or Christian, or Black, whose comments are thought to promote violence.

Then how effective is banning the thing? Utterly useless.


I have repeatedly stated not to rely on state bans and imprisonments. Would you please actually respond to MY arguments and not some imagined ones?

Also for the purposes of this argument Im lumping fascism and nazism together. I dont care about the differences because in practice these differences never really make a damn bit of difference.

I would oppose Muslim or Blacks who organise a movement which encourages random acts of racially-driven violence, but to be quite frank, I havent seen a great deal of evidence of this happening in the UK.


Do you have any academic evidence of the media's role in racism? This time I want a link.

Its 2.30 in the morning, im going to bed soon so i wont do this just now. In the meanwhile read the daily mail and the daily express everyday for a week. Then do some research into the benefits asylum seekers and immigrants have for the UK.


They can respond by doing so covertly. You must be one of those "bomb the terrorists all the way to hell" kinda people. In some cases, answering in kind simply does not work.


No, Im not. Please stop suggesting I support the state's actions when I've made it painfully clear that I do not.
If we want to break them up then we can through a mass movement.
To use your terrorist example, say a group of 20 members of al-q'aeda lived in a community of 20,000 people who militantly opposed their organisation and knew who they were.
Do you really think theyd be able to accomplish anything?


Excuse me, but I never said anything of the sort. I am more willing than most to hear out Communist arguments, without resorting to the "You're worse than them dar Nazis" response. What I meant, is I disapprove of Communist driven violence.

Funnily enough, you dont tend to get communists nailbombing pubs frequented by members of the bourgeoisie.

How do you stop Neonazism?


The same way one deals with anyone prone to violence and the violation of the rights of others: Leave them absolutely free to say whatever they want, but the moment the life or liberty of another is actually violated, hang the corpse of the violator up in the public square for all the world to see. (After the required presumption of innocence and trial by jury, etc., of course.)

There are very few human behaviors that I consider worthy of punishment. Those that are punishable, however, are serious enough to be done so thoroughly.

I have repeatedly stated not to rely on state bans and imprisonments. Would you please actually respond to MY arguments and not some imagined ones?

Also for the purposes of this argument Im lumping fascism and nazism together. I dont care about the differences because in practice these differences never really make a damn bit of difference.

I would oppose Muslim or Blacks who organise a movement which encourages random acts of racially-driven violence, but to be quite frank, I havent seen a great deal of evidence of this happening in the UK.
Yet many radical, outspoken Muslims have called the Western way of life decadent and wrong. Take Holland for an example. The death of Van Gogh. This is irrelevant though, since the main issue is the appropriateness of banning speech simply because it might incite violence, a position I am not partial to. Even if words do incite violence, those who commit the acts must be punished. Only they.


Its 2.30 in the morning, im going to bed soon so i wont do this just now. In the meanwhile read the daily mail and the daily express everyday for a week. Then do some research into the benefits asylum seekers and immigrants have for the UK.
So no proof for now. I will look into it anyway.

No, Im not. Please stop suggesting I support the state's actions when I've made it painfully clear that I do not.
If we want to break them up then we can through a mass movement.
To use your terrorist example, say a group of 20 members of al-q'aeda lived in a community of 20,000 people who militantly opposed their organisation and knew who they were.
Do you really think theyd be able to accomplish anything?
No, they wouldn't. These people could petition the government for their removal though, under the guise of "removing the extremists for their own safety".


Funnily enough, you dont tend to get communists nailbombing pubs frequented by members of the bourgeoisie.
Don't act as if there aren't radical Communists out there who would do just that.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/mindscape2469/1671409_l.jpg

So while were at it, let's not be hypocrites, and jail anyone, be they Muslim, Nazi, or Christian, or Black, whose comments are thought to promote violence.


Does this mean you disapprove of the banning of the ANC in South Africa during apartheid and the routine imprisonment of ANC, PAC, and Azanian Peoples' Organisation activists?

Educate people about the racist lies which Neonazi groups feed off. Explain how many mainstream parties use these same lies to benefit themselves.

Gain support from local community.

Stop them from organising, marching and speaking in public. Through violence if necessarry.

Id prefer to let them speak and show how biggotted and narrow minded they are. Otherwise I couldnt tell them from say strong opposition like yourself.

Does this mean you disapprove of the banning of the ANC in South Africa during apartheid and the routine imprisonment of ANC, PAC, and Azanian Peoples' Organisation activists?
I disapprove of all terrorism.

I disapprove of all terrorism.
So you approved of the banning of that organization.

So you approved of the banning of those organizations.
Not their banning, but punishment for any violence they may cause. Don't misrepresent my position.

Does this mean you disapprove of the banning of the ANC in South Africa during apartheid and the routine imprisonment of ANC, PAC, and Azanian Peoples' Organisation activists?
I disapprove of all terrorism.
So you approved of the banning of that organization.
Not their banning, but punishment for any violence they may cause. Don't misrepresent my position.
You've already stated it, indirectly. Par for the course.

You've already stated it, indirectly. Par for the course.
Strawmen. I explicitly stated what I believe. Misrepresent all you like. It is invalid, inaccurate and incorrect.

Not their banning, but punishment for any violence they may cause. Don't misrepresent my position.

What methods do you think should have been used to achieve multi-racial elections in South Africa?

Strawmen. I explicitly stated what I believe. Misrepresent all you like. It is invalid, inaccurate and incorrect.
I posted an entire extended exchange without alteration. Let people decide for themselves what they think of it.

What methods do you think should have been used to achieve multi-racial elections in South Africa?
The same as used by women in the UK to achieve female suffrage...political methods. Violent campaining by a branch of the feminists proved to be counter-productive.

I posted an entire extended exchange without alteration. Let people decide for themselves what they think of it.
Those of sane mind and clear judgement will realise then that you are creating strawmen. Give it your best. If you are trying to make me out as some villain, understand I care little for what the deluded think of me.

The same as used by women in the UK to achieve female suffrage...political methods. Violent campaining by a branch of the feminists proved to be counter-productive.

How does a population group campaign politically when a government will not permit it? Women in the UK did not have the same restrictions on their freedom of movement or on their right to assemble.

How does a population group campaign politically when a government will not permit it? Women in the UK did not have the same restrictions on their freedom of movement or on their right to assemble.
Granted. I'll be specific then - I oppose all violent actions in democratic nations where alternative avenues are available to bring about reform.

How do you stop Neonazism?

a multipronged approach of education, economic aid in problem areas, loudly and frequently mocking the boneheads for being pathetic/stupid/funny-looking, and a bit of the old street justice if they ever try to step into the daylight.

Id prefer to let them speak and show how biggotted and narrow minded they are.

and what if significant numbers of people approve of the bigotry?

and what if significant numbers of people approve of the bigotry?
Then the majority of the nation is bigotted already.

a multipronged approach of education, economic aid in problem areas, loudly and frequently mocking the boneheads for being pathetic/stupid/funny-looking, and a bit of the old street justice if they ever try to step into the daylight.
My point exactly (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11008769&postcount=29).


Come on, they're fucking Nazis - not fucking Mensa.

Then the majority of the nation is bigotted already.

yes. and then what? should we just let the fash organize and gain power?

yes. and then what? should we just let the fash organize and gain power?
Well who is going to stop them? The government which represents the majority?

Well who is going to stop them? The government which represents the majority?
Duh.

Duh.
Why would it? If it represents the majority, and the majority approves of such actions, what incentive would it have? If you are advocating a ban on freedom of expression, it must logically follow that the government is actually going against a minority opinion.

yes. and then what? should we just let the fash organize and gain power?

The moment bigoted speech turns into bigoted action, pass out the ammunition. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11008795&postcount=31)

Until then, distribute copies of the First Amendment.

a multipronged approach of education, economic aid in problem areas, loudly and frequently mocking the boneheads for being pathetic/stupid/funny-looking, and a bit of the old street justice if they ever try to step into the daylight.
:headbang: The one thing that all most every racist group has in common,regardlees of origin and race they hate,There leaders have the money,power,and influence to got thier sheep to bah along to thier message being that it isn't thier"leaders" fault its some other race or groups fault
ie " it's not the palistine leaderships fault its the jews"
"it's not the land owners that exploit anyone handy fault if it weren't for the blacks cheating them"
"its not that schools,family,church and other oganizations have failed the people its the immigrants,jews,blacks,mormons,fill in the blanks fault its all thier fault you couldn't help yourself.
lets face it copping out is part of human nature,especially when that human feals like he's getting screwed.
That being said put up flier for a FREE RACIST DEATH METAL CONCERT then gas the colisuem:D

You could have someone pretend to be a neonazi (unofficially of course) and encourage their tendencies, suggesting particular hate crimes, which will actually be set-ups. Once you have the evidence required you can convict them. Thence you have them "transferred" to another location, where they are executed.
Thought-crime?

Why would it? If it represents the majority, and the majority approves of such actions, what incentive would it have? If you are advocating a ban on freedom of expression, it must logically follow that the government is actually going against a minority opinion.
But the majority don't. There goes your argument.

But the majority don't. There goes your argument.
:rolleyes: Are you blind? I was responding to a hypothetical scenario envisaged by Free Soviets. Read before you post.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,417492,00.html


Well, the World Cup will start soon, and just as things usually go - now the big debate about a rise in racially motivated attacks and so on starts off, after some recent high-profile beatings.

The question is though - what do you do with this brainless scum, which quit school after Year 9, has no intention of ever getting a job or anything like that, and spend their time thinking that the world is unfair because it values brain over brawn.

How do you stop Neonazism?

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2024935,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2027025,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1972821,00.html

ignore the ignorant twits.

they have a right to be dumbfucks,as long as they dont violate my rights(at least in america)and dont incite violence.

if they do get punchy...well everyone has the god given right to self defense.

if they want to march about dressed like idiots and jerk off to hitler posters...oh well..it's their right to be fools,but as i said,if they step over the line as far as violence..then the law should fall on them like a ton of bricks.
and they dont bother me a wit...never have been bothered by fools..but if they get in my face..thats a different story.

i prefer to laugh on the sidelines and not feed their little brains by giving them the time of day.

Anyway, the point is moot in my nation. It's against the law to be a Nazi. End of discussion.

Anyway, the point is moot in my nation. It's against the law to be a Nazi. End of discussion.
So much for freedom of speech and thought. I will take a guess: you are German?

So much for freedom of speech and thought. I will take a guess: you are German?
Canadian. And your freedom of speech is reasonably limited to not infringeing on my reasonable enjoyment of life, free from fear of hate speech and the promulgation of hate speech.

Don't like it? Tough beans. Go mollycoddle a Klansman if it'll make you feel any better.

So much for freedom of speech and thought. I will take a guess: you are German?
He's Canadian I beleive.

Canadian. And your freedom of speech is reasonably limited to not infringeing on my reasonable enjoyment of life, free from fear of hate speech and the promulgation of hate speech.

Don't like it? Tough beans. Go mollycoddle a Klansman if it'll make you feel any better.
So you have freedom of speech up there as long as its popular speech. Nice.

So you have freedom of speech up there as long as its popular speech. Nice.
Pretty much the position of most countries which allow partial limitations to the notion of freedom of speech.

Run them off a bridge with the Bluesmobile.

Pretty much the position of most countries which allow partial limitations to the notion of freedom of speech.
I guess accusing their opponents of racism is par for the course as well?

So you have freedom of speech up there as long as its popular speech. Nice.
I know Americans just can't come to grips with the concept of a reasonable limitation on the freedom of speech, so don't look for me go getting indignant or defensive. It's just different than what you're used to, but it works just fine for us up here.

But don't worry, it won't stop anyone from flapping their braying racist traps all they want, south of the border. Personally, I like the trade-off, as it effectively hobbles these groups from the get-go.

I guess accusing their opponents of racism is par for the course as well?
Arguments littered with ad-hominem attacks do not phase me.

I know Americans just can't come to grips with the concept of a reasonable limitation on the freedom of speech, so don't look for me go getting indignant or defensive. It's just different than what you're used to, but it works just fine for us up here.
I don’t care about other Americans. I care about not being a fascist. I care about not fearing a free and open marketplace of ideas. By your own admission, that’s what you are, afraid. You have so little faith in your ideas of tolerance that you assume they will be drowned out by hatred. Or maybe you fear you wouldn’t be willing to put forth the effort to combat it? I don’t know, but fear of an inferior ideology is pathetic.

In actuality you are no different than a conservative afraid that one nipple on the Superbowl will poison the minds of Christians.

How do you stop Neonazism?
You don't. As much as the media bombards us with propaganda and as much as the schooling institutions try and twist us to their ideals, there are always some intellectual thinkers that realize there is a different truth that what we are just handed.

You portray Neo-Nazism as brutish and unintelligent, but I would submit the exact opposite... in fact, many anti-nazi posts in this very topic prove my point quite nicely. You simply spew out "equality" (which itself is an impossibility... just look at political rights groups and lobbyists. What started as a strive for equality now has colleges and employers within America accepting black applicants over whites to stay 'diverse' and 'equal'... tell me, what equality?) that you have been spoonfed for the past decade by democratic governments (which actually defeats the purpose of a democracy, as a true democracy is controlled by the majority, not minority groups. Which actually is somewhat of a Nazi ideal that you all scorn. Ironic.) from all around the world. However much of that is a debate for another topic.

How do you "stop" neo-nazism? You pump the media even more toward anti-nazi propaganda, anti-white propaganda, and perhaps you would get somewhere. As long as the White race exists, there will always be somebody who takes immense pride in it, and then is instantly labeled a "Neo-Nazi" for better or for worse.

The conclusion is this. There is no equality in the world, there never will be. There never can be. Nature has proven this, man has proven this, and man continues to prove this. Subsequently, there must be one race higher than another, and why should it not be the race which gave the world civilization? Don't stop them... perhaps think outside of the confines of what you have been given to be "good" and told to be "bad" ... apply logic and you may be surprised.

Oh no, somebody disagreed with all of you mindless peons ... I don't see how it is necessary to respond to what I know will be a colorful assortment of words, idealogies and unfounded blabber. The ironic thing is... you would call me close minded, yet will not give the reasoning behind this post more than 10 seconds thought. The term "Nazi" is dismissed before even seriously considered as a credable political affiliation... a "Neo-Nazi" must be an uneducated worthless thug looking to kill?

Haha - my my how stereotypical... and closed minded. Food for thought - let the demonstration of governmental and social restriction of fascist thought commence, my hypocritical brethren.

~ Eskertania

aha - i thought we'd done this conversation (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10497721&postcount=85) a couple months ago. a point i'd made then:

as long as we are going to have a state, i would rather have the state protect nazis at their rallies (and even occassionally arrest people like myself - if we aren't able to unarrest them at least). i fear the state more than i fear nazis. but that does not detract in any way from the justice of violent resistance to nazis wherever they feel strong enough to crawl out from under the rotting logs and rocks they hide under normally.

not confronting them makes them look and feel strong. it makes them appear powerful (and therefore 'right') to those who are borderline enough to be won over to their side anyway. every time you make it clear that nazis are grossly outnumbered and would be run out of town if not for the protection of the police, you make them look weak and foolish. every nazi with a black eye is equal to at least a couple more people not joining them who might have otherwise.

no pasarán

anti-white propaganda

there must be one race higher than another

seriously, you guys are just no good at public relations. thank non-fucking-existent god; otherwise you might be even more of a problem.

I don’t care about other Americans. I care about not being a fascist. I care about not fearing a free and open marketplace of ideas. By your own admission, that’s what you are, afraid. You have so little faith in your ideas of tolerance that you assume they will be drowned out by hatred. Or maybe you fear you wouldn’t be willing to put forth the effort to combat it? I don’t know, but fear of an inferior ideology is pathetic.
It's not fear of an ideology. If it's a 'fear' of anything, it's fear of fostering hatred, with all the consequences of same, violent and otherwise. And anyway, the likelihood of my ideals being 'drowned out' by hatred are minute at best - as Nazis aren't being permitted to gain any toeholds in our country.

Like I said, it's a trade-off, but one with such positive side-effects that I don't have to spend a single minute of a single day having to endure some pathetic Nazi arse pontificating at length. It just doesn't happen. And I don't have to tolerate it if I do encounter it. Don't like it? Well, no-one's asking you to.

In actuality you are no different than a conservative afraid that one nipple on the Superbowl will poison the minds of Christians.
I beg to differ.There's nothing even remotely titillating about shaven heads and tiny penises.

It's not fear of an ideology. If it's a 'fear' of anything, it's fear of fostering hatred, with all the consequences of same, violent and otherwise. And anyway, the likelihood of my ideals being 'drowned out' by hatred are minute at best - as Nazis aren't being permitted to gain any toeholds in our country.
If you don't fear them, what's the point?
Like I said, it's a trade-off, but one with such positive side-effects that I don't have to spend a single minute of a single day having to endure some pathetic Nazi arse pontificating at length. It just doesn't happen. And I don't have to tolerate it if I do encounter it.
I live in the United States and I've never had to. Besides, what are you saying? For your own personal convenience there should be no Nazis? I don't like fat chicks, should there be no fat chicks?
Don't like it? Well, no-one's asking you to.
No one asked you to twist Europa Maxima's words into racism, but you did that anyway.

I don’t care about other Americans. I care about not being a fascist. I care about not fearing a free and open marketplace of ideas. By your own admission, that’s what you are, afraid. You have so little faith in your ideas of tolerance that you assume they will be drowned out by hatred. Or maybe you fear you wouldn’t be willing to put forth the effort to combat it? I don’t know, but fear of an inferior ideology is pathetic.

so how do you propose to combat an ideology that explicitly rejects reason and debate, that glorifies violence and action as good in themselves, and consistently has shown itself to have a good deal of appeal when left unchecked.

fascists don't intend to play in your free marketplace of ideas at all. in fact, they intend to have you shot.

It's not fear of an ideology. If it's a 'fear' of anything, it's fear of fostering hatred, with all the consequences of same, violent and otherwise. And anyway, the likelihood of my ideals being 'drowned out' by hatred are minute at best - as Nazis aren't being permitted to gain any toeholds in our country.

Like I said, it's a trade-off, but one with such positive side-effects that I don't have to spend a single minute of a single day having to endure some pathetic Nazi arse pontificating at length. It just doesn't happen. And I don't have to tolerate it if I do encounter it. Don't like it? Well, no-one's asking you to.

I don't know where in Canada you live, I live in Toronto (Scarborough). Just 10 years ago there was a White Supremacist group - the Heritage Front - that tried to run for Scarborough city council and plastered the (former) city of Scarborough with pamphlets stating the inferiority of other racial groups. The group wasn't shut down until they crossed the boundary of free speech and began advocating racial warfare. Maybe Nazi groups are illegal in Canada, but White Supremacist groups certainly aren't, until they begin advocating violence.

so how do you propose to combat an ideology that explicitly rejects reason and debate,that glorifies violence and action as good in themselves, and consistently has shown itself to have a good deal of appeal when left unchecked.
The same could be said of certain breeds of communism and conservatism capitalism, but I fear neither of those and see no reason to combat them outside of the realm of speach.
fascists don't intend to play in your free marketplace of ideas at all. in fact, they intend to have you shot.
I have complete confidence that they will not succeed.
Western civilization has inevitably moved towards more and more liberal ideas with just a few bumps in the road and will continue to do so.

If you don't fear them, what's the point?
The point, simply put, is that a stitch in time saves nine.
what are you saying? For your own personal convenience there should be no Nazis?
For my convenience, my safety and my piece of mind, whether personal, public, or group-affiliated, yes. It's wonderful.
No one asked you to twist Europa Maxima's words into racism, but you did that anyway.
No-one twisted anything. I simply posted a complete and unedited exchange of posts for the edification of those perusing the thread. I will not be prompted to some heated exchange over anything as mundane as that.

Let them stay around because it's a reminder of a failed way of thinking. Plus it's fun when they argue and gripe over people such as myself.

The point, simply put, is that a stitch in time saves nine.

For my convenience, my safety and my piece of mind, whether personal, public, or group-affiliated, yes. It's wonderful.
Wise words from a wise man.
Good old Bed Franklin of course also once said, "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

Wise words from a wise man.
Good old Bed Franklin of course also once said, "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
A chacun son gout. Good luck with it.

Wise words from a wise man.
Good old Bed Franklin of course also once said, "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
I mistook you from that thread where you argued against the severity of rape; most of the time you actually do make sense. :)

I mistook you from that thread where you argued against the severity of rape; most of the time you actually do make sense. :)
Off topic: Just a tiny clarification, I did not argue against the severity of rape. I argued against a universal acceptance of such. Of course it’s a terrible crime in our society because of the conditions present in the victim and predator. I’m just not sure if the revulsion is a natural thing, but for our purposes that hardly matters. Anyway, thanks.
A chacun son gout. Good luck with it.
It's been going good so far. Even here in Texas, the only racism I've ever seen has been angrily rebuffed by onlookers, not by the authorities, and it was much more satisfying to see someone realize that the world is against them than it would have been to have them hauled off to jail a martyr.

So you have freedom of speech up there as long as its popular speech. Nice.


funny how that works aint it....

agree with me...great..if not...your a loony that needs to be locked up.

free speech is free speech..period,at least to me.

yes you cant yell fire in a theatre,but you cant suppress ideas,no matter how repugnant(and neo nazis/white supremist are repugnant to me)
but until they cross a line written in to law(supposedly written by our rep's..if in fact they care what we think..i think not..so i want my free speech)...they got just as much a right to spout their bullshit as do i....and i have every right to ignore them as the inconsequential toads that they are.

see..that was free speech right there...hurt no one,cept some rascist's feelings.

without free speech and the right to protect yourself...we are serfs all over again.

...never give an inch. They don't deserve even that much, anyway. Good night...

The same could be said of certain breeds of communism and conservatism capitalism, but I fear neither of those and see no reason to combat them outside of the realm of speach.

do either of those have a large and deadly prison gang? local organizations that consistently engage in assualt and murder? leaders that try to hire people to assassinate federal judges?

do either of those have a large and deadly prison gang? local organizations that consistently engage in assualt and murder? leaders that try to hire people to assassinate federal judges?
Not currently. Even when the fascists manage to succeed in one of the indeavers (which is rare) they acomplish nothing of substance. Nobody wants what they are selling. They have better options.

With love rainbows and carebear stares?

And a shit load of Napalm strikes



kill em all, let god sort em out!

The term "Nazi" is dismissed before even seriously considered as a credable political affiliation... a "Neo-Nazi" must be an uneducated worthless thug looking to kill?
You're telling someone who knows exactly what the mind of your average on-the-street Neonazi is. I used to know some of them, before they turned Nazi, and afterwards.
You on the other hand prefer to sit behind your computer, hoping to shock people with your attempts at opinion. How about you try to leave your room and make contact with your local skinhead scene?

And then you tell me that they are somehow better than what I described.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,417492,00.html


Well, the World Cup will start soon, and just as things usually go - now the big debate about a rise in racially motivated attacks and so on starts off, after some recent high-profile beatings.

The question is though - what do you do with this brainless scum, which quit school after Year 9, has no intention of ever getting a job or anything like that, and spend their time thinking that the world is unfair because it values brain over brawn.

How do you stop Neonazism?

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2024935,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2027025,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1972821,00.html


There's some lads from Ukhonto we Sizwe whom I could call.
I'm pretty certain they'd have a grand old time turning semi-trained Skinheads into minced meat pies.

There's some lads from Ukhonto we Sizwe whom I could call.
Are they still around?

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,417492,00.html


Well, the World Cup will start soon, and just as things usually go - now the big debate about a rise in racially motivated attacks and so on starts off, after some recent high-profile beatings.

The question is though - what do you do with this brainless scum, which quit school after Year 9, has no intention of ever getting a job or anything like that, and spend their time thinking that the world is unfair because it values brain over brawn.

How do you stop Neonazism?

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2024935,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2027025,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1972821,00.html
Welll well well a German preaching harmony...

Actually Beckham was going tohave a fly by of Doubly Doubly-Two Fighters over his 'Gayfest' but decided against it to 'promote harmony and not accentuate the rivalry between the Limey and the Bosche'.

Are they still around?


New occupations and all that, but there's still enough fight in those lads to sort out worthless punks.
I'm certain I offend worthless punks when I connect them to skinheads.
My apologies to the worthless punks....

Let the scumbags say whatever they want. It's a democratic country and they have a right to freedom of speech, that we can turn on them and ridicule and criticise and laugh at.

Howveer, should they try and start anything, baton charges and tear gas is a favourable alternative, as is throwing bricks.

You don't. As much as the media bombards us with propaganda and as much as the schooling institutions try and twist us to their ideals, there are always some intellectual thinkers that realize there is a different truth that what we are just handed.

You portray Neo-Nazism as brutish and unintelligent, but I would submit the exact opposite... in fact, many anti-nazi posts in this very topic prove my point quite nicely. You simply spew out "equality" (which itself is an impossibility... just look at political rights groups and lobbyists. What started as a strive for equality now has colleges and employers within America accepting black applicants over whites to stay 'diverse' and 'equal'... tell me, what equality?) that you have been spoonfed for the past decade by democratic governments (which actually defeats the purpose of a democracy, as a true democracy is controlled by the majority, not minority groups. Which actually is somewhat of a Nazi ideal that you all scorn. Ironic.) from all around the world. However much of that is a debate for another topic.

How do you "stop" neo-nazism? You pump the media even more toward anti-nazi propaganda, anti-white propaganda, and perhaps you would get somewhere. As long as the White race exists, there will always be somebody who takes immense pride in it, and then is instantly labeled a "Neo-Nazi" for better or for worse.

The conclusion is this. There is no equality in the world, there never will be. There never can be. Nature has proven this, man has proven this, and man continues to prove this. Subsequently, there must be one race higher than another, and why should it not be the race which gave the world civilization? Don't stop them... perhaps think outside of the confines of what you have been given to be "good" and told to be "bad" ... apply logic and you may be surprised.

Oh no, somebody disagreed with all of you mindless peons ... I don't see how it is necessary to respond to what I know will be a colorful assortment of words, idealogies and unfounded blabber. The ironic thing is... you would call me close minded, yet will not give the reasoning behind this post more than 10 seconds thought. The term "Nazi" is dismissed before even seriously considered as a credable political affiliation... a "Neo-Nazi" must be an uneducated worthless thug looking to kill?

Haha - my my how stereotypical... and closed minded. Food for thought - let the demonstration of governmental and social restriction of fascist thought commence, my hypocritical brethren.

~ Eskertania

I say, a Neo-Nazi. How quaint. Jews still controlling the media and the banks, are they? Hows the old anti-Bolshevik crusade going for you chaps? Good? Excellent, excellent. Oh, and don't forget to oppress a few women whilst your at it for good measure.

Welll well well a German preaching harmony...
You know, I can't say I find your constant jokes particularly funny.

Welll well well a German preaching harmony...

...


I don't get it...

Let the scumbags say whatever they want. It's a democratic country and they have a right to freedom of speech, that we can turn on them and ridicule and criticise and laugh at.

Howveer, should they try and start anything, baton charges and tear gas is a favourable alternative, as is throwing bricks.


*grin*
Excellent.
Ditto for all troublemakers who bay at the moon.

There ain't no such thing as a right to respect!

Since many Neo-Nazi groups operate by occupying spaces and closing them off by threat of violence to anyone they don't approve of (apperance too "alternative", hair too long, skin too dark, sexuality too different, tongue too sharp...), the obvious thing to do is to take those spaces back.

This is best done by proving that people of different backgrounds can live together and have a good time while they're at it. By having a party. By removing racist posters and making a joke in the act. By cheering up the little old lady who is worried about her greengrocer's unfamiliar culture before she goes out and tells her grandkids racist gaffes.

Talking to the lattter can help, but you have to get there before they join up something ideological. And if they live in circumstances dire enough to merit becoming ideological, offer a better one.

The problem is that prejudice doesn't arise out of nowhere. While society decries the influx of aliens to deflect from other issues and parents teach their kids prejudice and violence, you're dealing with deep-rooted personality issues coupled with an acceptable scapegoat... and not just teenage flights of fascist fancy.

You know, I can't say I find your constant jokes particularly funny.
Does it hurt you so?

I was serious in the second part give me some credit.

Well, what you wont fight neonazism with is by utterly humourless dogmatic repetitions that there ain't no racial divides.
Such divides exist.
And it is up to us to deal with 'em - preferably without shoving other folks into Boncentration Bamps.

Does it hurt you so?
Well, "hurt" is perhaps the wrong word...but seriously, it wasn't like that was particularly funny or witty.
I don't mind the occasional joke, if made with genuine intent at humour. So it might be good if you chose your cues more carefully.

Well, "hurt" is perhaps the wrong word...but seriously, it wasn't like that was particularly funny or witty.
I don't mind the occasional joke, if made with genuine intent at humour. So it might be good if you chose your cues more carefully.

*facepalm*
Lighten up, dude!

Lighten up, dude!
Meh. I suppose I'm beaten when I get that accusation levelled at me. ;)

At any rate, there need not be a Nazi joke in every Germany-related discussion on this board, does there?

Notes irony, as the very topic of the thread is German Nazis...

You people are ridiculous.
I'm thanking God none of you will ever get into politics.
"How do we stop these neonazi facists?"
"SHOOT THEM!"

Yeah that isn't a fucking massively hypocritical or anything.

Well, "hurt" is perhaps the wrong word...but seriously, it wasn't like that was particularly funny or witty.
I don't mind the occasional joke, if made with genuine intent at humour. So it might be good if you chose your cues more carefully.
I'll try and restrict my comments about German* 'against you', but not other Germans.

*Or any other race or religeon etc etc.

Meh. I suppose I'm beaten when I get that accusation levelled at me. ;)

At any rate, there need not be a Nazi joke in every Germany-related discussion on this board, does there?

Notes irony, as the very topic of the thread is German Nazis...
Only every 3rd.

*sighs* Fight them in the same way that I fought a BNP member who attacked a friend of mine not-so-long ago.

Headbutt them, and kick them a bit when they're down, and then run like the fucking clappers, because you know that neither of you is going to get prosecuted, but the BNP guy might come back with weapons/some friends.

If you really want to control neonazis, get them to join the army and police.

At least that way, they'll get the job done properly.

God Bless the Stuffed Shirts
President Bush Whacker

You people are such hypocrites. It's stupid that everyone but these people have a right to freedom of speech. Maybe if you legalised their being, they wouldn't have to be so violent to be heard.

You people are such hypocrites. It's stupid that everyone but these people have a right to freedom of speech. Maybe if you legalised their being, they wouldn't have to be so violent to be heard.

Freedom of speech is quite good, but having people injured/dead because of it is not. That's why I'm against "freedom of speech" being used a shitty defence for the BNP, neonazi groups et al.

You people are such hypocrites. It's stupid that everyone but these people have a right to freedom of speech. Maybe if you legalised their being, they wouldn't have to be so violent to be heard.

Hell, I support their freedom of speech. However, if they should try anything other than that...well, then baton charges make sense.

Oh, and don't think me prejudiced solely against Neo-Nazis. I say that about any extremists from any religion, race or political style.

Freedom of speech is quite good, but having people injured/dead because of it is not. That's why I'm against "freedom of speech" being used a shitty defence for the BNP, neonazi groups et al.

Well it's because they have no freedom of speech that they are forced to violence. It's not like they are free to voice their opinions. Except in the USA, where coincidentally neo-nazi attacks are far less frequent. Doesn't anyone else realise the point i'm making here?

Freedom of speech is quite good, but having people injured/dead because of it is not. That's why I'm against "freedom of speech" being used a shitty defence for the BNP, neonazi groups et al.

If you can prove that their activities go beyond the boundaries of freedom of speech and actually harm other people, then please, litigate them out of existence.
Seriously. I would love to see those bastards get kicked out of my hometown.

neonazis just want to pick fights, so by fighting them, what you'd actually be doing is encouraging them.

best thing to do is allow them to speak their opinions, then tear every argument to shreds, whilst still letting them think that you are actually heeding what they say.

failing that, stick 'em in a gulag.

If you can prove that their activities go beyond the boundaries of freedom of speech and actually harm other people, then please, litigate them out of existence.
Seriously. I would love to see those bastards get kicked out of my hometown.

They were beating up a mate of mine "because he was a Paki". So yeah, they really needed the shit kicked out of them.

Meh. I suppose I'm beaten when I get that accusation levelled at me. ;)

At any rate, there need not be a Nazi joke in every Germany-related discussion on this board, does there?

Notes irony, as the very topic of the thread is German Nazis...
For instance i'll make fun of Russia and Russians for having a growing number of Neonazis in their country when they were 'Untermenschen'(Sp) to begin with.

For instance i'll make fun of Russia and Russians for having a growing number of Neonazis in their country when they were 'Untermenschen'(Sp) to begin with.

There is a small difference between neonazism and intense nationalism. They don't want to exterminate particular races, they just want them to leave their country.

best thing to do is allow them to speak their opinions, then tear every argument to shreds, whilst still letting them think that you are actually heeding what they say.

The point is that they don't have any counter-arguments, which is exactly why I've gotten into fights with BNP members, because they attacked me/a friend first after I told them to stop and argued with them.

The point is that they don't have any counter-arguments, which is exactly why I've gotten into fights with BNP members, because they attacked me/a friend first after I told them to stop and argued with them.

They do actually, if you cared to listen. Either that or you met a particularly stupid bunch, or they weren't in the mood for talking:mad: . Believe it or not, the right wing of the political spectrum isn't just for people who want to beat up people of other colours.

There is a small difference between neonazism and intense nationalism. They don't want to exterminate particular races, they just want them to leave their country.
Perhaps but that isn't what the Newspaper article i read said.

what does this mean?
Sprechen Sie Deutsches? Auch ist es Ihre Liebhabereien, zum von von über Gewinden lustig zu machen?

It is asking me if i Speak German and then???

What the hell. I say, let the scum say what they want, when they want. It's freedom of speech, of course.

And of course we should have the same rights and be able to call them everything under the sun for their prejuciced, bigoted views. Maybe throw some bagels at them.

They do actually, if you cared to listen. Either that or you met a particularly stupid bunch, or they weren't in the mood for talking:mad: .
Again, I have literally grown up among budding Neonazis. Believe me, their arguments were restricted to hurling empty bottles at stuff.

Believe it or not, the right wing of the political spectrum isn't just for people who want to beat up people of other colours.
On the very ground level of it, yes it is. There may be all sorts of rationalisations put on top of it, but everything from basic conservatism to neonazism basically rests on an antipathy of anything unknown.

What the hell. I say, let the scum say what they want, when they want. It's freedom of speech, of course.

That's the whole problem. They don't have freedom of speech!:headbang:

Sprechen Sie Deutsches? Auch ist es Ihre Liebhabereien, zum von von über Gewinden lustig zu machen?
Speak you German? Also is it your hobby to from from about thread funny to make?

Yep, that's about as much sense as that makes...

They do actually, if you cared to listen. Either that or you met a particularly stupid bunch, or they weren't in the mood for talking:mad: . Believe it or not, the right wing of the political spectrum isn't just for people who want to beat up people of other colours.

Oh sorry!

Their argument was "we need to protect ethnic purity in Britain, which is why I'm beating your Paki mate up, so he and his kind will leave".

When I asked who 'we' decended from, he said the Normans. When I reminded him that the Normans were actually Vikings, who were actually part of a group of tribes, and that there were Celts, Picts and other groups living here, as well as immigrants even in the Middle Ages he punched me in the face.

So yeah, a great intellectual debate.

Speak you German? Also is it your hobby to from from about thread funny to make?

Yep, that's about as much sense as that makes...
interesting...
I got that in a Telegram.
:confused:

That's the whole problem. They don't have freedom of speech!:headbang:

No sh**. That's why I specifically said, "Let the scum say what they want, when they want. It's freedom of speech, of course.". Or did you mistake me for some kind of legislator that can change laws?

I'm intolerant of Nazism attitudes myself, but let's stop assosciating neo-Nazism with Hitler, shall we? Neo-Nazism, as the name suggests, is a modern form of Nazism, which means that while key philosophies (like facism and nationalism) are central to it, some specifics are left out (anti-semitism).

If we are to truly understand Nazis, we need to first talk to them on a human level, as long as they are willing to do the same. Discussions, like it or not, are the best way to get a good idea of your counterpart's mindset and fight it directly rather than physically going into combat.

Off-topic a little, a little advice to those trigger-happy fellows here: refrain from combat unless you are cornered and/or left with no alternative. In all other cases, run for safety. It's not called being a coward. It's called preventing violence. It's called preserving your damned life. You're no superman.

They do actually, if you cared to listen. Either that or you met a particularly stupid bunch, or they weren't in the mood for talking:mad: . Believe it or not, the right wing of the political spectrum isn't just for people who want to beat up people of other colours.

Clearly.

As we can tell from Yootopia's example, they also like to beat up people of the same colour.

Clearly.

As we can tell from Yootopia's example, they also like to beat up people of the same colour.

Damn right. They'll beat anyone up, but their main priority is seemingly the out-living-crap-beating-of anyone with skin a tint darker than theirs.

Damn right. They'll beat anyone up, but their main priority is seemingly the out-living-crap-beating-of anyone with skin a tint darker than theirs.

One wonders what happens if they see an Albino. Do they think the Albino to be superior to them? Do they let it beat them up, as it is lighter than them?

some specifics are left out (anti-semitism).
Meanwhile, neo-Nazis have been using the Internet to call for a demonstration on June 21 in Leipzig ahead of the World Cup match being played there between Iran and Angola. Their aim is to support Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who has described the Holocaust as a "lie" and wants Israel to be wiped off the map.
Now, you could of course get into the ancient debate about how Holocaust Denial is somehow not antisemitism, but let's not.

One wonders what happens if they see an Albino. Do they think the Albino to be superior to them? Do they let it beat them up, as it is lighter than them?

They let them slide, unless they do something really bad, and at that point they claim that they bleached their hair and are actually gay because of this, before beating them up, of course.

I imagine.

One wonders what happens if they see an Albino. Do they think the Albino to be superior to them? Do they let it beat them up, as it is lighter than them?The leave the albinos.. Crippled & dying.

I haven't read through the entire thread, so I don't know if it's been brought up yet. But don't you lot think it's a bit odd how many boneheads rape immigrant girls? I always wondered about that.. Never head about them using condoms when they do it either. Strange...

But what to do about neo-Nazi scum? Simple. Do what our fathers & grandfathers did to the original Nazi scum; shoot the lot.

They don't believe in their own bullshit. If they did, it might be possible to get through to them, but.. Alas, that's not the case. They embrace their philosophy of violence, murder & hate, because they get off on it & it makes them feel all manly, when 25 of them armed with bats & knives get away with raping a little girl, or kidnapping, torturing & killing a punker or a skinhead.

No fucking platform. If you can't turn them into permanent cripples when you see them, get a hold of a crew that can. They haven't got the right to the air they breathe. The only tolerable Nazi, is a mangled corpse - preferably buried upside down at a roadsign & eternally pissed on by dogs.

<b><i>Esteemed fellow leaders.</b></i>

I myself would prefer not to stop them at all. As soon as they break the laws they will be incarcerated for a long period of time, but I can not be such a hypocrite as to suppress their right to have these views, horrid though they might be.

As I have said many times onto both kinds of nazis, the germanic ones and the zionist ones - "I will never agree with you, but I will fight to death if necessary in order for you to have the right to have these views- which is something you would not do for me in turn."

In democracy, one must defend the rights of free speech and free thought and the freedom of assembly. However, I shall also defend the right of the Anti-Fascist Leagues to assemble and express their views upon the Fascist ones. Remember, Freedom comes at a double cost, responsibility and tolerance- if you lack either, you can not truly be free. As the Nazis lack tolerance, they shall not be truly free, but they are welcome to take responsibility for their actions against the AFL.


ALL HAIL MAACKIVANIA!!

the honourable and glorious leader of Maackivania.
J. E. V. Bj. Maack

I can't believe there are still neonazis. This is just weird.

Make them obliged by law to wear Red armbands with swastikas on in public.

Let's see how they like it.

don't you lot think it's a bit odd how many boneheads rape immigrant girls? I always wondered about that.. Never head about them using condoms when they do it either. Strange...

Well, that happens in most instances of conquest/subjugation. Have you noticed the "rape" in the phrase "rape and pillage"? White slave-owners had tons and tons of children by their black servants. There are a hell of a lot of people with American Indian ancestry, and I doubt all of those couplings were love stories. Every time a country invades another country, there are thousands of mixed-heritage children born afterwards. Since women are (historically/generally) already seen as inferior, it's even easier to rape women that are part of a race/nationality/group that are seen as inferior.

Well, that happens in most instances of conquest/subjugation. Have you noticed the "rape" in the phrase "rape and pillage"? White slave-owners had tons and tons of children by their black servants. There are a hell of a lot of people with American Indian ancestry, and I doubt all of those couplings were love stories. Every time a country invades another country, there are thousands of mixed-heritage children born afterwards. Since women are (historically/generally) already seen as inferior, it's even easier to rape women that are part of a race/nationality/group that are seen as inferior.That's besides the point. The Nazi filth believes in racial purity. Racial mixing is anathema to them... When others do it.

Oh well, doesn't matter. Whether they're hypocrites or not, they need to get dead.

That's besides the point. The Nazi filth believes in racial purity. Racial mixing is anathema to them... When others do it.
I think the thinking is somewhat more masculo-centrist than that; men can father children as much as they want if they don't have to worry about raising them, so as long as he has his way with white women as well he can rape, loot and pillage as much as he pleases without any fears as to dilution of the white race.

Yes, Nazis are, in every sense of the word, walking white penii. I think a circumcision is in order.

I think the thinking is somewhat more masculo-centrist than that; men can father children as much as they want if they don't have to worry about raising them, so as long as he has his way with white women as well he can rape, loot and pillage as much as he pleases without any fears as to dilution of the white race.You're probably right.Yes, Nazis are, in every sense of the word, walking white penii. I think a circumcision is in order.And I think I'm going to have to sig that.

Yah Neo nazis arent very good in alot of peoples eyes. but instead of looking at them cause its in germany how about the iranians. They'r using uranium for a reason and not just for powering houses.

Yah Neo nazis arent very good in alot of peoples eyes. but instead of looking at them cause its in germany how about the iranians. They'r using uranium for a reason and not just for powering houses.Neo-Nazis kill far more of my countrymen than Iranians do. Neo-Nazis wants half the people I know - myself included - dead.

On the list of potential threats to the country I live in, the one I came from, my social circle, or myself, Iranians are so far down worrying would get me diagnosed with paranoia.

Neo-Nazi scum, on the other hand, is numero uno on the list of present dangers to the safety of my loved ones & myself.

You're probably right.
*Nod*

Female neo-nazis seem few and far between, don't they? And they're dicks anyway.
And I think I'm going to have to sig that.
Ooh, thanks. Hope you enjoy it. =)

Female neo-nazis seem few and far between, don't they? And they're dicks anyway.Not few enough. A girl I know lost an eye & got scarred for life, when a couple of nazi girls jumped her with broken bottles behind a pub. Apparently their boyfriends were standing by, watching & laughing.

I'm a great believer in gender equality, especially when it comes to Nazi filth. I don't give two shits what gender they are, they need a killing, and I will never pass up an opportunity to give them just that.Ooh, thanks. Hope you enjoy it. =)You know, I never thought I'd read a topic about neo-Nazi filth, and genuinely laugh at a comment. Thanks for that.

The question is though - what do you do with this brainless scum, which quit school after Year 9, has no intention of ever getting a job or anything like that, and spend their time thinking that the world is unfair because it values brain over brawn.

How do you stop Neonazism?

Personally, I'm an advocate of speaking to them in their mother-tongue. Stomp 'em. They're such fans of violence and eradication? Live by the sword, die by the sword. I say stomp 'em. Stomp 'em out. Stomp 'em dead. Here, every fall neonazis from the city a few hours away come into town to try and recruit frosh from the two universities in town, and every fall there's a small gang of guys-- mostly self-styled anarchists-- who go out at night to find and confront them. There might be a brawl or two before the neo's slink back home. I really admire the boys, this fall I might just go downtown some night with cookies and juice for them :)

So yeah, I totally advocate terrorising and brutalising neonazis in the very manner that they would terrorise and brutalise others. If anything, they deserve it because they *choose* to be small-minded hateful bigot animals, and their preferred victims don't choose to be Jewish, black, Asian or gay.

Stomp 'em into the pavement, stomp 'em flat, stomp 'em dead.

Neo-Nazis kill far more of my countrymen than Iranians do. Neo-Nazis wants half the people I know - myself included - dead.

On the list of potential threats to the country I live in, the one I came from, my social circle, or myself, Iranians are so far down worrying would get me diagnosed with paranoia.

Neo-Nazi scum, on the other hand, is numero uno on the list of present dangers to the safety of my loved ones & myself.

Good god. Girls losing eyes to Neonazi girls. Where are you?

I really admire the boys, this fall I might just go downtown some night with cookies and juice for them :) There's a few nice local boys & girls who do the same here. Trust me, you'll truely make their day :fluffle: Stomp 'em into the pavement, stomp 'em flat, stomp 'em dead.Bootparty on the boneheads, hell yes!

Seriously though, do go feed your local AntiFa crew. It's great to feel appreciated :)

<b><i>Esteemed fellow leaders.</b></i>

I myself would prefer not to stop them at all. As soon as they break the laws they will be incarcerated for a long period of time, but I can not be such a hypocrite as to suppress their right to have these views, horrid though they might be.

As I have said many times onto both kinds of nazis, the germanic ones and the zionist ones - "I will never agree with you, but I will fight to death if necessary in order for you to have the right to have these views- which is something you would not do for me in turn."

In democracy, one must defend the rights of free speech and free thought and the freedom of assembly. However, I shall also defend the right of the Anti-Fascist Leagues to assemble and express their views upon the Fascist ones. Remember, Freedom comes at a double cost, responsibility and tolerance- if you lack either, you can not truly be free. As the Nazis lack tolerance, they shall not be truly free, but they are welcome to take responsibility for their actions against the AFL.


ALL HAIL MAACKIVANIA!!

the honourable and glorious leader of Maackivania.
J. E. V. Bj. Maack

Okay.. granted, as a good liberal I'm obliged to respect the neonazi's 'right' to hold his stupid, stupid idea. Believe whatever you want, you're entitled. Even speaking their mind about it... {grumble} should, in puritan liberal theory, be protected as a right. So my advocating violence against them sounds like I'm not a good liberal. Well, nobody's perfectly one thing or another, c'est la vie, que cera, et cetera. I say stomp 'em. Stomp 'em out, stomp 'em dead. Because yes, you can have your rights to think as you wish. But that right is part of a package of rights that also include the right to safety of the person, and when neonazis speak out about their beliefs-- which they pretty much invariably do-- it's usually meant to encourage hate at best, and promote violence at worst, which is an attack against others' right to safety of the person and, as I see it, a forfeiture of the rights package.
One cannot expect to benefit from the human rights and protections that they would deny their fellow humans; and for the rest of us to passively defend their rights to spew hate when that hate is damaging to society on the whole is pedantic. Neonazis want violence in the world? They want repression. By all means, let it be given to them. Let them drown in a deluge of their own making, and once they're gone we could repent our hypocrisy afterwards-- but we'd be doing it in a better world, for their absence.

Good god. Girls losing eyes to Neonazi girls. Where are you?That particular disaster happened while I lived in the UK. Things are far worse in other countries though, do not be fooled. Nazis aren't just the pathetic Sieg-Heil'ing wankers you see parading around in the US. They kill & cripple people. A friend of mine was kidnapped & tortured by the fuckers last year. No permanent harm, but he's one big cigarette burn now. Guess they didn't have the guts to kill him, though he's convinced that what they intended.

But then, that's just the dangers to anonymous strangers.. What you probably will care about, is nazis releasing vids of beatdowns, kidnappings & torture... And assasinations on union leaders & the like. And firebombings of immigrant shops & asylums.

Nazis need to die. All of them.

That particular disaster happened while I lived in the UK. Things are far worse in other countries though, do not be fooled. Nazis aren't just the pathetic Sieg-Heil'ing wankers you see parading around in the US. They kill & cripple people. A friend of mine was kidnapped & tortured by the fuckers last year. No permanent harm, but he's one big cigarette burn now. Guess they didn't have the guts to kill him, though he's convinced that what they intended.

But then, that's just the dangers to anonymous strangers.. What you probably will care about, is nazis releasing vids of beatdowns, kidnappings & torture... And assasinations on union leaders & the like. And firebombings of immigrant shops & asylums.

Nazis need to die. All of them.

The UK? Goddamn BNP. This is why I'm ashamed to be British. We fought against Nazi Germany and all that it represented, yet 60 years on scum like this exist, preaching the same hatred and bile that the original Nazis did, and some more.

I can only apologise for these scumbags, and assure you that they don't represent Britain. Where are nyou now, and where are you from, out of interest?

I agree with Skinny - the BNP are awful, but are definately the minority, and it pisses me off to an incredible degree when people vote for them "to rock the political boat". There are much, much more agreeable "outsider" parties.

The UK? Goddamn BNP. This is why I'm ashamed to be British. We fought against Nazi Germany and all that it represented, yet 60 years on scum like this exist, preaching the same hatred and bile that the original Nazis did, and some more.


Dont be ashamed that YOU are British, be ashamed that THEY are.

I find that freedom of speech has been turned into a sort of "Holy Grail" to justify people doing what is wrong. Bugger that. Lock the lot of them up.

Dont be ashamed that YOU are British, be ashamed that THEY are.

I find that freedom of speech has been turned into a sort of "Holy Grail" to justify people doing what is wrong. Bugger that. Lock the lot of them up.

No. Locking them up drives us to their level. We are a democracy and have freedom of speech rights. We just have to fight them through education and mass arrests if the bastards try anything.

Skinny, I sent you a TG.No. Locking them up drives us to their level. We are a democracy and have freedom of speech rights. We just have to fight them So far, I completely agree.... through education and mass arrests if the bastards try anything.Can't be done. Don't fool yourself into thinking they actually believe the shit they spew. They don't. They can't even be arsed to live by their own rules.

Criminalizing nazis is a bad idea, 'cos it'll give them even more "thug appeal", and make them much harder to keep tabs on. Give them their freedom to be Nazi scum, but give us the freedom to hunt them down & put them in the graves where they belong.

- And don't be ashamed about the BNP. Some small procentage of the human race will always be unfit for human existence. That sad fact in no way reflects on you or Britain. The girl I was talking about is an ethnic Brit. White as they come & born & raised in London. She just had the audacity to walk around alone while wearing a jacket with anti-nazi markings.

No. Locking them up drives us to their level. We are a democracy and have freedom of speech rights. We just have to fight them through education and mass arrests if the bastards try anything.

I am not entirely sure how locking them up for advocating violence is "driving us to their level"

I am not entirely sure how locking them up for advocating violence is "driving us to their level"
Advocating violence /= acting up on it. Lest we wish the government to be able to lock us up for thought crimes even. It has enough power as it is.

Advocating violence /= acting up on it. Lest we wish the government to be able to lock us up for thought crimes even. It has enough power as it is.

It already does lock people up for thoughtcrimes, I'm afraid.

I am not entirely sure how locking them up for advocating violence is "driving us to their level"

Ohhh, locking them up for advocating violence. Sorry, I thought you meant pre-emptively. No, no, I agree in that case, as I stated.

Similization: TG.

It already does lock people up for thoughtcrimes, I'm afraid.
The neo-fascist republic of the UK does, yes.

The neo-fascist republic of the UK does, yes.
Indeed, and since we were talking about the BNP, I thought that's where you meant.

Whereabouts in Europe do you live?

I know advocating violence is not the same as actually doing something violent. But since the government are already passing laws about protesting anyway (the law passed banning protests arount parliament square, with the intent of removing a single bloody protester) they might as well get rid of the BNP whilst they are at it.

I know advocating violence is not the same as actually doing something violent. But since the government are already passing laws about protesting anyway (the law passed banning protests arount parliament square, with the intent of removing a single bloody protester) they might as well get rid of the BNP whilst they are at it.
The UK Government is a bloody tyrant. There is no real separation of powers, and it is becoming a one-party system. Want a real fascist? Look no further than Labour and Parliament.

The UK Government is a bloody tyrant. There is no real separation of powers, and it is becoming a one-party system. Want a real fascist? Look no further than Labour and Parliament.

I'll agree with you on this one. The Parliamentary Act passed by Blair a few months ago - the one that lets them change any law - is a truly worrying one.

I'll agree with you on this one. The Parliamentary Act passed by Blair a few months ago - the one that lets them change any law - is a truly worrying one.
I think calling it "The Enabling Act" might be a better move, to be honest.

The UK Government is a bloody tyrant. There is no real separation of powers, and it is becoming a one-party system. Want a real fascist? Look no further than Labour and Parliament.

It would help if more of the general public had not missed the point about the House of Lords. They are there to stop this sort of thing getting too bad. But nooo the public have let themselves be convinced that the Lords should be turned into a version of the commons with more wigs.

Roll on a Cameron government, if only to get rid of mr sodding Blair.

I'll agree with you on this one. The Parliamentary Act passed by Blair a few months ago - the one that lets them change any law - is a truly worrying one.
Theoretically, they can trample your Human Rights Act out, should they decide that a subsequent exit from the EU is appropriate, and there is nothing you can do. Parliament is all-powerful. The fact that they tried to remove the Lord Chancellor makes crystal clear their true intentions. I mean, even the conservative judiciary is afraid of your government. :confused:

I think calling it "The Enabling Act" might be a better move, to be honest.

I'm awaiting the Daily Mail headline, "Muslim Burns Down Parliament. Martial Law Enacted"

It would help if more of the general public had not missed the point about the House of Lords. They are there to stop this sort of thing getting too bad. But nooo the public have let themselves be convinced that the Lords should be turned into a version of the commons with more wigs.

Roll on a Cameron government, if only to get rid of mr sodding Blair.
The House of Lords is the last safeguard to democracy you have. Unelected aristocracy or not, it is the closest thing you have to the separation of powers.

I'm awaiting the Daily Mail headline, "Muslim Burns Down Parliament. Martial Law Enacted"
Indeed. That or "gay liberal anarcho-communists burn down Parliament - IS NO-ONE SAFE?"

The House of Lords is the last safeguard to democracy you have. Unelected aristocracy or not, it is the closest thing you have to the separation of powers.

Good God. How did the UK suddenly become more of a totalitarian state than the US? I thought we were the safer ones.

The House of Lords is the last safeguard to democracy you have. Unelected aristocracy or not, it is the closest thing you have to the separation of powers.


Why do you think I like it?

The whole sodding point of them is that they dont have to worry about getting re-elected and can tell the government to go shove it up their arse if they get out of hand. But nooo, thats going to change soon as well.

This is what happens when people put too much stock in an elected government.

Good God. How did the UK suddenly become more of a totalitarian state than the US? I thought we were the safer ones.
By Blair realising that his support is waning incredibly quickly, and he doesn't really want to leave, so he's just "making sure" that he stays in power.

My opinion?

Throw him out ASAP and have snap elections.

Good God. How did the UK suddenly become more of a totalitarian state than the US?

It isnt, but its on the road to becoming one.

Good God. How did the UK suddenly become more of a totalitarian state than the US? I thought we were the safer ones.
The UK is closer than the US to a fascist state. US Judges can strike down laws as unconstitutional. The best bet your ones have is questioning their compliance with the ECHR. That is it. I like the idea of the House of Lords, but it's becoming much like the Queen; a figure-head, that is if any more power is taken from it.

Why do you think I like it?

The whole sodding point of them is that they dont have to worry about getting re-elected and can tell the government to go shove it up their arse if they get out of hand. But nooo, thats going to change soon as well.

This is what happens when people put too much stock in an elected government.
I like the fact that you can earn a title and enter it, sort of like an aristocracy in the truest sense of the word. For now, it can intimidate your Government, but its powers to do so are being limited day by day.

I like the fact that you can earn a title and enter it, sort of like an aristocracy in the truest sense of the word. For now, it can intimidate your Government, but its powers to do so are being limited day by day.

Hopefully the queen'll use her powers wisely and dissolve Parliament, calling elections ASAP.

Hopefully the queen'll use her powers wisely and dissolve Parliament, calling elections ASAP.
Labour will pull a trick like calling her constitutional role as Monarch into question. Your entire Parliamentary system has to be revised, giving back power to the HoL.

Labour will pull a trick like calling her constitutional role as Monarch into question. Your entire Parliamentary system has to be revised, giving back power to the HoL.

Yeah, the ruling party pretty much has the monarchy over a barrel. Imagine the outcry from the general idiocy. sorry, public if the queen does something.

The headlines will all miss the point as always "Queen makes move to sieze power" "Royal Family removes elected leaders" etc. etc.


I think I might spend a few hours this weekend writing letters to various newspapers about the proposed lords reform actually. Bugger exam revision :P

I think I might spend a few hours this weekend writing letters to various newspapers about the proposed lords reform actually. Bugger exam revision :P
To be honest, if you're smart enough to think about doing that, you'll piss through your exams.

I think I might spend a few hours this weekend writing letters to various newspapers about the proposed lords reform actually. Bugger exam revision :P
Well I have the pleasure of studying UK Public Law this weekend...for my exams. Much fun, considering how stupid I find it. The nation needs major reform, but if this ever happens, it will be slowly, and by then it might be too late.

Well I have the pleasure of studying UK Public Law this weekend...for my exams. Much fun, considering how stupid I find it. The nation needs major reform, but if this ever happens, it will be slowly, and by then it might be too late.

Well, it has to be done slowly. We are British, revolutions are for foreigners and are so passe :P

Ah, Stop buggering about with the House of Lords, slap the Justice system about and stop setting "Targets" for the NHS and the Police.

Thats all that needs to be done.

Pity that the last time a survey was done about the attributes politicians posessed Common Sense wasnt even on the list....

Well, it has to be done slowly. We are British, revolutions are for foreigners and are so passe :P

Ah, Stop buggering about with the House of Lords, slap the Justice system about and stop setting "Targets" for the NHS and the Police.

Thats all that needs to be done.

Pity that the last time a survey was done about the attributes politicians posessed Common Sense wasnt even on the list....
Maybe you should try run for PM some day. ;) Which party do you support anyway? I would be with the Lib-Dems if they were actually libertarian.

Maybe you should try run for PM some day. ;) Which party do you support anyway? I would be with the Lib-Dems if they were actually libertarian.

I am probably more conservative than anything else, but I am not that much of a fan of party politics (although when done properly it is pretty good)

I think all of them have good points.

My ideal government would have Lib-Dems running the local government thing, because they seem to do local-level politics quite well, but I would not trust them to run the country as a whole. A Labour chancellor of the exchequer, because lets face it, the current labour govenrment has done wonders with the economy. And a mostly Tory everything else.

And, obviously, a proper House of Lords and a royal family that knew how to play the media so they did not keep getting out-manuvered by the commons.



Although I would trust me and a bunch of my mates to do a better job than any party you care to name.

*snip*
Interesting mix of parties and role assignments. Could work actually. :p Although indeed, neither am I a fan of partisan politics. Too much oratory, too little action.

"The problem with politics is all the politics" That is probably a famous quote of some sort. And if it isn't I want it attributed to me in years to come :P


No really, it (politics) degenerates into scoring cheap points off the other parties and then going balls out for headline-grabbing useless ideas when in power.


Vote Lionstone

"The problem with politics is all the politics" That is probably a famous quote of some sort. And if it isn't I want it attributed to me in years to come :P


No really, it (politics) degenerates into scoring cheap points off the other parties and then going balls out for headline-grabbing useless ideas when in power.


Vote Lionstone
That is essentially what politics is. Slandering and gossip, and vote-mongering. Little more than displays of charisma, and how low one is willing to go.

Ah... how easily the fickle public can be convinced to do something. Almost makes you long for a feudal system. At least serfs wernt patronised :P

Ah... how easily the fickle public can be convinced to do something. Almost makes you long for a feudal system. At least serfs wernt patronised :P
It would be a step up. :p At least people were blissfully ignorant. Minarchism is the way of the future though. :)

How do you stop Neonazism?
Ban metric football?

It would be a step up. :p At least people were blissfully ignorant. Minarchism is the way of the future though. :)

Hahaha. Anyway, enough politics, I'm hungry.

- And don't be ashamed about the BNP. Some small procentage of the human race will always be unfit for human existence. That sad fact in no way reflects on you or Britain. The girl I was talking about is an ethnic Brit. White as they come & born & raised in London. She just had the audacity to walk around alone while wearing a jacket with anti-nazi markings.

It is unbelievable how hypocritical you people are. I hope you realise that this is the exact philosophy these nao-nazis follow. And some of you question how it is possible to act like that? You people are just as bad as they are.

Canadian. And your freedom of speech is reasonably limited to not infringeing on my reasonable enjoyment of life, free from fear of hate speech and the promulgation of hate speech.

Don't like it? Tough beans. Go mollycoddle a Klansman if it'll make you feel any better.

You also have the freedom to stick your fingers in your ears if you dont like what you hear or another option is to remove yourself from public areas where god forbid the public may somehow interact with you and lay a non conformist thought in your head. You dont have the right to walk down the street and mandating complete silence all around you because you dont like noise of any kind either.

It is unbelievable how hypocritical you people are. I hope you realise that this is the exact philosophy these nao-nazis follow. And some of you question how it is possible to act like that? You people are just as bad as they are.Is zero-tolerance of those that do hurt & try to kill you hypocritical?

I'm not a pacifist. Deal with it.

And no, it isn't the same thing. If the Nazi scum just preached their hate, I wouldn't respond with violence. They don't, however. They consciously choose to engage others with violence, often lethal violence. I'm not saying Skincolour X, Personality X, or Income Bracket X automatically do that. All I said, was that there'll always be some humans who aren't capable of living peacefully with other humans. Feel free to prove me wrong.

If you can't, you'll just have to forgive me for not obliging the bastards.

Freedom of speech is quite good, but having people injured/dead because of it is not.

Tell that to the millions of people and thier proud families that died to protect that very right from WW1 to present day.

Is zero-tolerance of those that do hurt & try to kill you hypocritical?

I'm not a pacifist. Deal with it.

seriously, where is the fucking hypocrisy in self defense and the defense of others against people who not only say they intend to kill you, but actively try to whenever they feel strong enough?

Okay.. granted, as a good liberal I'm obliged to respect the neonazi's 'right' to hold his stupid, stupid idea. Believe whatever you want, you're entitled. Even speaking their mind about it... {grumble} should, in puritan liberal theory, be protected as a right. So my advocating violence against them sounds like I'm not a good liberal. Well, nobody's perfectly one thing or another, c'est la vie, que cera, et cetera. I say stomp 'em. Stomp 'em out, stomp 'em dead. Because yes, you can have your rights to think as you wish. But that right is part of a package of rights that also include the right to safety of the person, and when neonazis speak out about their beliefs-- which they pretty much invariably do-- it's usually meant to encourage hate at best, and promote violence at worst, which is an attack against others' right to safety of the person and, as I see it, a forfeiture of the rights package.
One cannot expect to benefit from the human rights and protections that they would deny their fellow humans; and for the rest of us to passively defend their rights to spew hate when that hate is damaging to society on the whole is pedantic. Neonazis want violence in the world? They want repression. By all means, let it be given to them. Let them drown in a deluge of their own making, and once they're gone we could repent our hypocrisy afterwards-- but we'd be doing it in a better world, for their absence.

Verily 'tis true that the world seems a lot better without them. However, we are no better if we are violent first... I beleive Education would be the only way to rid us of neo-nazism.

Reading a lot of posts on this thread I see most people have made a crucial mistake in their understanding of fascism-

People see fascists and fascism as stupid.

This really is a huge mistake. Yes, fascism is a nonsensical bullshit belief system, but fascists do show a great deal of cunning in how they organise. The BNP plays on peoples fears (imagined or real)- immigration, radical islam, lack of housing, crime and so on. They focus on these issues and get support from those who feel abandoned by labour and see the BNP as a working class alternative (the majority of people now voting BNP are ex-labour voters).

When people say "allow them to keep being idiots"- what do they mean by that? Do they just picture a group of skinheads standing around drooling and mumbling something about the jews? This isnt the reality. The fascists will engage with the local community and try to present themselves as a serious political movement. And of course some pissed off people will see them as holding the answers.

This means that allowing Fascists to leaflet, sell papers, engage with the community, speak in public allows fascism spread.

People thought Hitler was a joke when he first popped onto the political scene. He proved them wrong pretty damn quickly due to a lack of any real opposition.

Reading a lot of posts on this thread I see most people have made a crucial mistake in their understanding of fascism-

People see fascists and fascism as stupid.

This really is a huge mistake. Yes, fascism is a nonsensical bullshit belief system, but fascists do show a great deal of cunning in how they organise. The BNP plays on peoples fears (imagined or real)- immigration, radical islam, lack of housing, crime and so on. They focus on these issues and get support from those who feel abandoned by labour and see the BNP as a working class alternative (the majority of people now voting BNP are ex-labour voters).

What about real Islamo-fascists then? Is it okay for them?

How do you stop Neonazism?


KILL THE FUCKERS!!!

It is unbelievable how hypocritical you people are. I hope you realise that this is the exact philosophy these nao-nazis follow. And some of you question how it is possible to act like that? You people are just as bad as they are.

Preaching hate is one thing. They are free to do that, and we are free to ridicule it for the crap it is. However, if they start acting on those bigoted prejudices, we should have the right to arrest them and throw them in jail.

Preaching hate is one thing. They are free to do that, and we are free to ridicule it for the crap it is. However, if they start acting on those bigoted prejudices, we should have the right to arrest them and throw them in jail.
Precisely.

Blowtorches.

Or failing that, some sort of super chemical weapon that turns them all into elderly gay black jewish people.
In wheelchairs.
Did I mention they were gypsies from some foreign land.






What? The irony would be lethal itself.