NationStates Jolt Archive

My brother finished up his Marines basic training about a month ago. I did not attend the graduation ceremony, but today I watched the video of it my parents bought from them. It started off with the national anthem being played, and some Marine guy leading a prayer. :confused:

Why can they do that?

Not only is taxpayer money being spent on a prayer, but it is also being forced on those marines. They wouldn't be able to stay out of it without disrupting the whole ceremony, or being reprimanded in some way...

Oh please, taxpayer money was NOT spent on a prayer.

Besides, a very old saying, and one that rings true: there are no atheists in foxholes. ;)

Why can they do that?


Perhaps the entire troop was the same religion?

Oh please, taxpayer money was NOT spent on a prayer.

Besides, a very old saying, and one that rings true: there are no atheists in foxholes. ;)

Hmmmmm? (http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/about.php)

UK or US marines?
I'd be more shocked if it was Uk marines, but i suppose there is a strong tradition of Religion in all the armed forces of any country. Except maybe communist ones.

Oh please, taxpayer money was NOT spent on a prayer.

Besides, a very old saying, and one that rings true: there are no atheists in foxholes. ;)


Technically, money is spent every day on prayers by the U.S. governemnt, because the military employs chaplains.

And the "no atheists in foxholes" is simply a demonstration of the power of fear. Something every church is good at.

Hmmmmm? (http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/about.php)

I should say, none in foxholes and none in bed. ;)

Oh please, taxpayer money was NOT spent on a prayer.

Besides, a very old saying, and one that rings true: there are no atheists in foxholes. ;)
I just watched a video of a government event, on government property, with a government employee leading other government employees in prayer.

Perhaps the entire troop was the same religion?
Unless he converted while in basic training and just never mentioned it, my brother is not Christian.

Liasia']UK or US marines?
I'd be more shocked if it was Uk marines, but i suppose there is a strong tradition of Religion in all the armed forces of any country. Except maybe communist ones.

Why more shocked if it was UK marines? UK may be less silly about religion, but they do have a state church.

I'm talking about US Marines, sorry for not being clear.

I just watched a video of a government event, on government property, with a government employee leading other government employees in prayer.


Unless he converted while in basic training and just never mentioned it, my brother is not Christian.


How much money, then, was spent on this prayer, since you allege taxpayer money was spent on it?

there are no atheists in foxholes.

bollocks
i shouldn't think there's any theists either. just a family of foxes wondering what all the fuss is about.

bollocks
i shouldn't think there's any theists either. just a family of foxes wondering what all the fuss is about.

LOL.

How is money being spent on a prayer? Prayers require maintenance these days?:headbang:

I would guess that this was a blessing over the soldiers, not having seen the ceremony. To say that the taxpayer's money was being spent on this would be correct, but as an earlier poster has mentioned, the army, or marines, employ chaplains already. It's not like they're spending any more money on the ceremony. The chaplain isn't forcing anyone to convert, they are only praying for the safekeeping of the soldiers. I understand that people don't believe this will do anything, and otherwise wouldn't stay for something like that, but really, but really, where's the harm? And how long was the prayer? Two minutes? Three?
I don't think it's that big a deal, and the armed forces deserve their traditions (which I'm sure this is one).

How much money, then, was spent on this prayer, since you allege taxpayer money was spent on it?

It doesn't matter how much, just that it was, and unless all participating parties were not paid for attending the ceremony, money was spent on prayer. I'm pretty certain any marine not graduating at the time was paid to be there, if not, then the government isn't paying it's employees for mandatory work.

How is money being spent on a prayer? Prayers require maintenance these days?:headbang:
well if banks are able to charge for letting some electronic numbers move from one location to another then i think it is quite easy to make the case that the organisational and imaginative effort required to orchestrate a prayer reading session costs money. cuz the time they spent on this could have been spent doing something productive like polishing their boots or whatever marines do.

I'm not religious, don't want religion in the government, but who gives a fuck about a prayer? If you don't like it, just sit there and not participate.

That's what I did at my brothers graduation.

If you get offended by a prayer, you really need to smoke a joint and relax.

Maybe it was a freebie. ;)

So how much money are we talking here? And then divide that by the taxpayer base to see how it's costing each individual taxpayer.

well if banks are able to charge for letting some electronic numbers move from one location to another then i think it is quite easy to make the case that the organisational and imaginative effort required to orchestrate a prayer reading session costs money. cuz the time they spent on this could have been spent doing something productive like polishing their boots or whatever marines do.
It's graduation day, they get the rest of the day off. The person who gave the prayer is already employed by the government, so not allowing them to do their job would actually lose the taxpayer money because they wouldn't be doing anything productive.

Maybe it was a freebie. ;)
A gift from god :p

It's graduation day, they get the rest of the day off. The person who gave the prayer is already employed by the government, so not allowing them to do their job would actually lose the taxpayer money because they wouldn't be doing anything productive.

that's pretty much what i said.

The issue is less the money and more the inherent tacit endorsement. If the army uses a prayer in its ceremony, it's giving the impression that it'll take that prayer's denomination's side in any dispute, whether or not it actually intends to.

Meh. When I was on active duty (only 2 years ago, before someone says something about Korea or Vietnam or something) there was a benediction at almost every ceremony. The vast majority of us weren't really religious (or atheist either, just non-religious) but it's just part of the ceremony. In fact, I can only think of one Bible-thumper I met in my 4 years on active duty. Either way, it's not as though anyone in the formation is really listening to what's being said. All we thought about was, "Damn, I can't wait for this crap to be over. Damn, I hate standing at attention for an hour. Damn, I need a beer."

It's graduation day, they get the rest of the day off. The person who gave the prayer is already employed by the government, so not allowing them to do their job would actually lose the taxpayer money because they wouldn't be doing anything productive.

What sort of productive things would they have been doing? It's not as though being at work will make them cost any less. Painting rocks and edging sidewalks doesn't really have any effect on the budget.

The issue is less the money and more the inherent tacit endorsement. If the army uses a prayer in its ceremony, it's giving the impression that it'll take that prayer's denomination's side in any dispute, whether or not it actually intends to.

And if it was non-denominational? A general "good luck and good health and stay safe?"

And if it was non-denominational? A general "good luck and good health and stay safe?"

It's still tacit endorsement of Christianity if it actually is a prayer. If it was really just a "good luck and stay safe" then I doubt the OP would be complaining to this degree.

My brother finished up his Marines basic training about a month ago. I did not attend the graduation ceremony, but today I watched the video of it my parents bought from them. It started off with the national anthem being played, and some Marine guy leading a prayer. :confused:

Why can they do that?

Not only is taxpayer money being spent on a prayer, but it is also being forced on those marines. They wouldn't be able to stay out of it without disrupting the whole ceremony, or being reprimanded in some way...

Who cares? Was you're brother wounded in some way? Was he hurt at all emtionally/phsyically??? We know he wasn't hurt phsyically and if he was hurt emtionally, how the hell can he be a marine? Whats he gonna do when he's buddie's head gets blown off somewhere in combat??

So what he heard a prayer from another religion? I'm Christian but whenever I hear some muslim doing a call to prayer I dont say "Excuse me can you stop? I'm not a muslim so I dont want to hear it, ok thanks."

Besides, a very old saying, and one that rings true: there are no atheists in foxholes. ;)

That's not an argument against atheists. It's an argument against foxholes. What do you have against those poor foxholes anyway. What did any of those holes in the grounds do to you? :p

The "prayers" they lead at those functions are not religious specific, their intended as a "may you guys get lucky and dodge the flying bits of metal".
All the services have those sorts of things, and its a military tradition. if anyone has any real issues with that, the military will go out of its way to accommodate them, including changeing the speech.
Septarn
P.S. In Air Force, so this isnt a completely idiotic rant. im a certified ranter.