NationStates Jolt Archive

Just homered off A's pitcher Brad Halsey for number 714. Wish I'd been there to see it.

Just homered off A's pitcher Brad Halsey for number 714. Wish I'd been there to see it.
DAMN IT!!! I HATE THAT GUY!!!:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: If only he wasnt' such an asshole...

At one of the games someone had a sign up that said that "The Babe did it on booze and chicken wings." or something like that. Kinda made me chuckle in that "I don't really follow baseball" way...

DAMN IT!!! I HATE THAT GUY!!!:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: If only he wasnt' such an asshole...
I love to see people get exercised over this kind of stuff--he's a ballplayer. Ty Cobb was a racist sack of shit. Pete Rose is a self-absorbed wanker who's never come to grips with the fact that it's his own damn fault he's not in the Hall of Fame. Ted Williams was apparently a massive git. What does personality have to do with athletic accomplishments?

My lovers from Philadelphia speak for me, he's a cheater.

I love to see people get exercised over this kind of stuff--he's a ballplayer. Ty Cobb was a racist sack of shit. Pete Rose is a self-absorbed wanker who's never come to grips with the fact that it's his own damn fault he's not in the Hall of Fame. Ted Williams was apparently a massive git. What does personality have to do with athletic accomplishments?

Being on the juice helps.

The Babe at least set his record while on booze.

He is a putz and I really don't give a rats ass that he tied the record.

Just homered off A's pitcher Brad Halsey for number 714. Wish I'd been there to see it.Call me back when someone does it without steroids.

At one of the games someone had a sign up that said that "The Babe did it on booze and chicken wings." or something like that. Kinda made me chuckle in that "I don't really follow baseball" way...
That's my Philly lovers!

My lovers from Philadelphia speak for me, he's a cheater.
:rolleyes:

Baba needs a chance to defend his record. I say we exhume and reanimate him!

At one of the games someone had a sign up that said that "The Babe did it on booze and chicken wings." or something like that. Kinda made me chuckle in that "I don't really follow baseball" way...
Yeah i saw that too.
He may have been the Babe but he ain't #1.
Cricket PWNS all!

:rolleyes:
Don't deny it babe.

Perhaps we can get back to watching the Detroit Tigers trying to keep up with the White Sox, or something else like that; which is more representative of the sport as a whole than having everyone ask "Is Barry gonna do it today?" all the time.

Perhaps we can get back to watching the Detroit Tigers trying to keep up with the White Sox, or something else like that; which is more representative of the sport as a whole than having everyone ask "Is Barry gonna do it today?" all the time.
No no, now he has to beat the record. Then there's the next one.

No no, now he has to beat the record. Then there's the next one.
Not important if it's cheating

I wonder how many homeruns Babe or Hank would have hit if they were on the juice?

I wonder how many homeruns Babe or Hank would have hit if they were on the juice?
Or how many he might have hit if he'd played outfield his entire career instead of being a pitcher for the first few years? Or how many he might have hit ifhe'd played against black players?

Jeez--Barry Bonds is the greatest player of this generation, steroids or not, and he was far from the only person of this era using them.

No no, now he has to beat the record. Then there's the next one.

I can't see him catching Hank this year. (Too many walks and days off to rest his d**g crippled body) The real question is how may years will it take for Albert to overtake him at the current rate?

Edit: Albert needs 493 more homers, which at the current rate of 1 every other game will take him 6 full seasons and 14 games to pass the Babe. (By which time he will be 32 years old!)

Or how many he might have hit if he'd played outfield his entire career instead of being a pitcher for the first few years? Or how many he might have hit ifhe'd played against black players?

Jeez--Barry Bonds is the greatest player of this generation, steroids or not, and he was far from the only person of this era using them.
yeah, ok

Just homered off A's pitcher Brad Halsey for number 714. Wish I'd been there to see it.
Sorry Nazz... but that title... "Barry ties the Babe" sounds like a children's book on B&D

what will you create at the next homer...

"Barry Beats the Babe"?

Barry ties the Babe

And here I thought this thread was going to be about Max getting kinky.

:D

Sorry Nazz... but that title... "Barry ties the Babe" sounds like a children's book on B&D

what will you create at the next homer...

"Barry Beats the Babe"?
Nah--I'm going to stay away from thread titles that sound like animal abuse. :D

Or how many he might have hit if he'd played outfield his entire career instead of being a pitcher for the first few years? Or how many he might have hit ifhe'd played against black players?

Jeez--Barry Bonds is the greatest player of this generation, steroids or not, and he was far from the only person of this era using them.

Terribly sorry Nazz, I will not accept "he wasn't the only one using them" as an argument. As if others doing an illegal thing is an excuse for anyone else. You see, US law outlawed the use of anabolic steroids long before baseball finally outlawed "performance enhancing drugs."

I will freely admit that I never warmed to Barry Bonds. I have always thought and have had confirmed by his actions that he is a classless jerk. That being said, before the juice and human growth hormone, Bonds would have gotten my Hall of Fame vote because it was clear he belonged there.

It is not so clear now. I cannot and will not accept Bonds as a great man, I will not accept him as the equal in class of Henry Aaron, and I do not accept his assault on the record books since he started cheating his ass off.

And that is what every baseball player who is on "performance enhancing drugs" is doing. Cheating. Even if organized baseball was idiotic in failing to have a policy addressing this.

I think Willie Mays (Bond's godfather) made a point inadvertantly. When asked by a reporter what answer he would get from Barry on the steroid topic, Mays sadly said that he didn't want to ask that question of Barry because he feared the answer to that question.

Does Bonds belong in the Hall of Fame? No, not in my opinion. He belongs on a list warning young players the dangers of rampant steroid use. By the time Barry is in his 50's (if he lives much past his mid-fifties I will be surprised) his body will have broken down so badly from the damage he did to himself on steroids and human growth hormone, that he will be a virtual cripple. The list of sad stories from steroid use includes Llyle Alzado, Ken Caminiti, Jose Canseco, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire (hasn't admitted it and likely won't) and Sammy Sosa among other lesser known figures.

But the saddest part of this whole thing is that high school kids and college players emulate what the current crop of major leaguers is doing, and if cheating and climbing over the pile of bodies is a way to live a life, much less play a sport, then we have some terribly screwed up priorities.

No, Barry does not deserve reward or recognition of his home run records, and he has not earned the free pass you are so eager to give him.

Frankly, I hope he has the class to retire at the end of this season. It is plain to me that the breaking down of his body has begun. Aaron deserves to keep the all-time record and no amount of Barry apologists will ever convince me otherwise. The whole thing is an embarassment.

Or how many he might have hit if he'd played outfield his entire career instead of being a pitcher for the first few years? Or how many he might have hit ifhe'd played against black players?
Or indeed, how many home runs would have Bonds have got if he hadn't been intentionally walked so often?
Doesn't he have the record for that, as well?

Was it ever proved that Bonds took steroids?

Was it ever proved that Bonds took steroids?

Enough proof for me.

Anyway what is all this talk of records? He is tied for second place now.

Baba needs a chance to defend his record. I say we exhume and reanimate him!
It has all the makings of a Resident Evil sequel, if you ask me

Just homered off A's pitcher Brad Halsey for number 714. Wish I'd been there to see it.
what is this, some kind of code? :confused:

I love to see people get exercised over this kind of stuff--he's a ballplayer. Ty Cobb was a racist sack of shit. Pete Rose is a self-absorbed wanker who's never come to grips with the fact that it's his own damn fault he's not in the Hall of Fame. Ted Williams was apparently a massive git. What does personality have to do with athletic accomplishments?
Not a damn'd thing. You either appreciate their talent or you don't. Sometimes they are that rare combination of nice guy and great athlete, but that's just a GM's dream in most cases.

I wish Barry Bonds didn't have the steroid cloud hanging over him and a personality makeover could help to smooth those rough edges. Look at the year Mark McGuire hit 70 home runs. He's a nice guy and it was easier to bypass the steroid controversy.

Was it ever proved that Bonds took steroids?He got caught with a bottle of them. He shows the symptoms of steroid use but refuses to be tested for steroids. If Barry Bonds doesn't use steroids, OJ Simpson didn't kill anyone.

He got caught with a bottle of them. He shows the symptoms of steroid use but refuses to be tested for steroids. If Barry Bonds doesn't use steroids, OJ Simpson didn't kill anyone.
He actually has been tested for them, and the tests came back negative which only means that either the test wasn't good enough or that they've since cleared his system. When he testified before the BALCO grand jury last eyar, he said that he'd taken two substances now known as the "clear" and the "cream" which later were found to have been steroids. He has claimed all along that he took them without knowing they were steroids.

My opinion all along has been that I do't care one way or the other if they were steroids. Baseball has been retarded about enhancements from the beginning--and please don't give me the "but they're illegal" spiel again. Amphetamines have been illegal for years too, but they only hit baseball's testing this year too. Do you want to go back and negate every record set by people on greenies for the last 40 years as well? Cheating is a part of baseball, and if Gaylord Perry can be celebrated for his spitball and be in the Hall, then damnit, Bonds deserves to be there too.

Besides, Bonds was a Hall of Famer well before steroids even become an issue. Compare the first 15 years of his career with anyone in the Hall and he smokes most of them.

He actually has been tested for them, and the tests came back negative which only means that either the test wasn't good enough or that they've since cleared his system. When he testified before the BALCO grand jury last eyar, he said that he'd taken two substances now known as the "clear" and the "cream" which later were found to have been steroids. He has claimed all along that he took them without knowing they were steroids.

Which proves absolutely nothing either way. Might I suggest reading "Game of Shadows" for a more comprehensive and well researched piece of investigative journalism


My opinion all along has been that I do't care one way or the other if they were steroids. Baseball has been retarded about enhancements from the beginning--and please don't give me the "but they're illegal" spiel again. Amphetamines have been illegal for years too, but they only hit baseball's testing this year too. Do you want to go back and negate every record set by people on greenies for the last 40 years as well? Cheating is a part of baseball, and if Gaylord Perry can be celebrated for his spitball and be in the Hall, then damnit, Bonds deserves to be there too.

Sorry, a spitball is an INFRACTION of the rules. You get caught loading up the ball, scuffing it or cutting it, you get ejected, fined and suspended. No ifs, ands or buts. Steroid use and the use of human growth hormone is on a far greater scale. Spitballs and loaded bats are part of the culture of baseball and their impact very minor indeed. In terms of rule breaking, relatively minor in scale as compared to ingesting a substance to make radical changes in your body mass, and give you more "pop" in your swing or more speed on your fastball. One happens occasionally. One is now a pervasive scourge on sport.


Besides, Bonds was a Hall of Famer well before steroids even become an issue. Compare the first 15 years of his career with anyone in the Hall and he smokes most of them.

No disagreement on him being a Hall of Famer before steroids. Pity he was such an insecure bastard he couldn't live with his natural talents and had to go the cheap way for greater recognition. Too bad he hasn't thought about the impact that he has made on his kids and others glorifying doing something the absolute wrong way.

Most old time Hall of Fame members see him as a cheating scumbag. And you know what Nazz? They're right.

Privately MLB sees him as an embarassment. You know what? He is.

It is no mystery to me that except for the cities of San Francisco and Oakland Barry Bonds is publicly vilified and seen for the cretin he is.

First round Hall of Famer? Yes, sadly he will be.

what is this, some kind of code? :confused:

(Just in case you haven't figured it out yet, it's baseball. Rugby and cricket are equally cipherous to most of us from the other side of the pond.)

Which proves absolutely nothing either way. Might I suggest reading "Game of Shadows" for a more comprehensive and well researched piece of investigative journalism Dude--you missed my point. Yes, he took them. Whether he admits it publicly or not makes not one whit of difference to me.


Sorry, a spitball is an INFRACTION of the rules. You get caught loading up the ball, scuffing it or cutting it, you get ejected, fined and suspended. No ifs, ands or buts. Steroid use and the use of human growth hormone is on a far greater scale. Spitballs and loaded bats are part of the culture of baseball and their impact very minor indeed. In terms of rule breaking, relatively minor in scale as compared to ingesting a substance to make radical changes in your body mass, and give you more "pop" in your swing or more speed on your fastball. One happens occasionally. One is now a pervasive scourge on sport.Cheating is cheating as far as the game is concerned--it's taking an unfair advantage to gain an edge. And you never addressed the amphetamine issue.

No disagreement on him being a Hall of Famer before steroids. Pity he was such an insecure bastard he couldn't live with his natural talents and had to go the cheap way for greater recognition. Too bad he hasn't thought about the impact that he has made on his kids and others glorifying doing something the absolute wrong way.

Most old time Hall of Fame members see him as a cheating scumbag. And you know what Nazz? They're right.

Privately MLB sees him as an embarassment. You know what? He is.

It is no mystery to me that except for the cities of San Francisco and Oakland Barry Bonds is publicly vilified and seen for the cretin he is.

First round Hall of Famer? Yes, sadly he will be.
In the end, he'll be a hero, whether you like it or not. People will forgive the steroids and will remember the towering homers. That's the nature of sports fandom.

Dude--you missed my point. Yes, he took them. Whether he admits it publicly or not makes not one whit of difference to me.


Cheating is cheating as far as the game is concerned--it's taking an unfair advantage to gain an edge. And you never addressed the amphetamine issue.


In the end, he'll be a hero, whether you like it or not. People will forgive the steroids and will remember the towering homers. That's the nature of sports fandom.
At best, Barry Bonds will be remembered bittersweetly, he will never be seen as a hero. Look at McGuire, he his some "towering homers", but all that people seem to remember right now is andro. You'd be surprised how well fans can carry a grudge. There was a great article on ESPN.com about Barry Bonds, but I can't find it again to get a link. Sorry.

At best, Barry Bonds will be remembered bittersweetly, he will never be seen as a hero. Look at McGuire, he his some "towering homers", but all that people seem to remember right now is andro. You'd be surprised how well fans can carry a grudge. There was a great article on ESPN.com about Barry Bonds, but I can't find it again to get a link. Sorry.
In 20 years, the only people talking about steroids will be those who just can't let it go. The average fan won't give two shits about it.

In 20 years, the only people talking about steroids will be those who just can't let it go. The average fan won't give two shits about it.
Ok, so steroids won't be an issue, but will Barry Bonds be remembered "as a hero"? I don't think so. Every time that his name comes up, so will the issue of steroids.

Just homered off A's pitcher Brad Halsey for number 714. Wish I'd been there to see it.what is this, some kind of code? :confused:
Let's beat them at their own game, shall we?

"He pitched what looked like it was a wrong-'un but turned out to be a googly angling down outside leg yet was played away off the pads between point and silly mid-off."

Translate that, you American philistines!

The title of this thread cries out for a comment on Bondage ;)

Dude--you missed my point. Yes, he took them. Whether he admits it publicly or not makes not one whit of difference to me.

I'm really not trying to change your mind <grin>.


Cheating is cheating as far as the game is concerned--it's taking an unfair advantage to gain an edge. And you never addressed the amphetamine issue.

And there is a remedy in the Official Rules of Baseball and the Case books for both Major League and Minor League Umpires for game infractions, which spitballs and corked bats fall under.

I am talking scale. Realistically, the use of steroids, human growth hormone and methamphetimine is not only cheating, abusing amphetimines and other drugs is against the law.


In the end, he'll be a hero, whether you like it or not. People will forgive the steroids and will remember the towering homers. That's the nature of sports fandom.

No he wont, too many people hated Barry Bonds before the steroids. Barry Bonds is a polarizing figure. He MIGHT be remembered as a great player, but hero? No.

Bear this in mind, Bonds is engaged in a race against the clock. If he doesn't break Aaron's record this year, he won't do it. I doubt if his body holds together, and if this year is an indication of how far he will fall, then he is on the night train to the big adios in terms of career.

(Just in case you haven't figured it out yet, it's baseball. Rugby and cricket are equally cipherous to most of us from the other side of the pond.)
heh i figured that out... just wanted showcase my ignorance :D

Let's beat them at their own game, shall we?

"He pitched what looked like it was a wrong-'un but turned out to be a googly angling down outside leg yet was played away off the pads between point and silly mid-off."

Translate that, you American philistines!

That would be cricket. Some of us Yanks have dads who are from the UK and played cricket.

Yeah... or not: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/060512

Keep on trying, Barry, I'm sure you have America's support.:rolleyes:

At one of the games someone had a sign up that said that "The Babe did it on booze and chicken wings." or something like that. Kinda made me chuckle in that "I don't really follow baseball" way...

Here I thought it was off of booze and hookers. :D

I don't know if anybody has already mentioned this, but Ruth was a pitcher for a while. Imagine if he focused on batting his whole career. He probably would be the record holder instead of Aaron.

I think he's just going to retire at the end of the year anyway. Then Pujols will make a run at it.

In 20 years, the only people talking about steroids will be those who just can't let it go. The average fan won't give two shits about it.In 20 years, the only people talking about Barry Bonds will be the ones talking about steroids. The average fan won't care much about players whose records have been removed due to cheating.

That would be cricket. Some of us Yanks have dads who are from the UK and played cricket.
correct, but what exactly happened there?

correct, but what exactly happened there?


"He pitched what looked like it was a wrong-'un but turned out to be a googly angling down outside leg yet was played away off the pads between point and silly mid-off."

Well, a wrong 'un is the Australian term for a googly. A googly when delivered by a right arm leg spin bowler to a right handed batsman appears to spin from leg to off but actually is spins opposite that (off side to leg side). So the batsman played it off his pads between point (the place where the bowler released the ball) and "silly" (a point very near the batsman) "mid-off" (the middle area of the pitch on the batsman's OFF side, or the right half for right handed batsman).

The best a poor Yank can do.

In 20 years, the only people talking about Barry Bonds will be the ones talking about steroids. The average fan won't care much about players whose records have been removed due to cheating.

How do you remove records? They're an historical record of what happened.

All you can do is put his performance in context. He played when a lot of guys were on a lot of things, and ballparks were getting smaller and smaller. Plus, his era is the first one on which ball doctoring was effectively eliminated from the game by widespread use of television cameras. And yet, relative to the league averages at the time he was playing, he was still impossibly good.

I suspect we'll see even bigger offensive seasons starting right now simply because pitchers are no longer allowed to take amphetamines.

Uppers do not increase performance. They just keep you "pepped up."

A bad pitcher can be on amphetimines and still be crappy, just energetically crappy.

And when you come down, you crash REALLY hard. The price paid is really high for using reds.