NationStates Jolt Archive

This is awesome. (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,416587,00.html)

Most of you will remember the long discussions about Muslim immigrants in the EU, and all the other Islam-related debates of recent months.

Some of you may have used material from a certain Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a woman from Somalia who spends her time calling Islam all sorts of things (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,356485,00.html).

Well, guess what.

She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands, so her arse is going back home!
(Well, maybe not exactly, she'll be moving to the States, to work for the American Enterprise Institute. :rolleyes: )

Hehehehe. See what your theories of racial and cultural purity will get you?

This is awesome. (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,416587,00.html)

Most of you will remember the long discussions about Muslim immigrants in the EU, and all the other Islam-related debates of recent months.

Some of you may have used material from a certain Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a woman from Somalia who spends her time calling Islam all sorts of things (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,356485,00.html).

Well, guess what.

She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands, so her arse is going back home!
(Well, maybe not exactly, she'll be moving to the States, to work for the American Enterprise Institute. :rolleyes: )

Hehehehe. See what your theories of racial and cultural purity will get you?

I'm not entirely sure what your opinion is, but it seems that the decision taken by the dutch immigration minister was a misguided attempt to boost her own career. All she lied about was how long her name was, all the bits of name she gave were in her full name, she just missed out bits, seemingly to prevent her being tracked down by her family, which, when applying for asylum to avoid arranged marriage is kind of the point.

It was also common knowledge that this was the case, and then almost over night it became an issue. I feel bad for the Netherlands that they are losing her because of the pettiness of Rita Verdonk, oh well.

I have three christian names, but I never really use the third one, even on official forms, I'm kind of paranoid now, have I been doing something wrong?

This is awesome. (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,416587,00.html)

Most of you will remember the long discussions about Muslim immigrants in the EU, and all the other Islam-related debates of recent months.

Some of you may have used material from a certain Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a woman from Somalia who spends her time calling Islam all sorts of things (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,356485,00.html).

Well, guess what.

She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands, so her arse is going back home!
(Well, maybe not exactly, she'll be moving to the States, to work for the American Enterprise Institute. :rolleyes: )

Hehehehe. See what your theories of racial and cultural purity will get you?

You really DO hate Europe, don't you?

You mean the thing she admitted before running for her post in the dutch government on live TV? That was not a problem at all until a bunch of fucking cowards buried their heads in the sand as a gesture of solidarity?

Oh dear. European culture is in trouble now.

You really DO hate Europe, don't you?
I doubt it. He's German.

Some of you may have used material from a certain Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a woman from Somalia who spends her time calling Islam all sorts of things (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,356485,00.html).
She explicitly directs her comments against radical Muslims. Most of the things she says are true as well. I can't believe that you are not unequivocally against the groups of people who kill directors for making films, issue fatwas against writers, and execute honour killings in your own country (56 in the last six years).

I feel bad for the Netherlands that they are losing her because of the pettiness of Rita Verdonk, oh well.She was already planning to take a job in the US, so her leaving is also nothing new.

I don't know how I feel about this.

You really DO hate Europe, don't you?
If you're on NS General, you have to hate the US, Europe, or Islam, or religion, or Communism, or something. What do you hate?

This is awesome. (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,416587,00.html)

Most of you will remember the long discussions about Muslim immigrants in the EU, and all the other Islam-related debates of recent months.

Some of you may have used material from a certain Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a woman from Somalia who spends her time calling Islam all sorts of things (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,356485,00.html).

Well, guess what.

She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands, so her arse is going back home!
(Well, maybe not exactly, she'll be moving to the States, to work for the American Enterprise Institute. :rolleyes: )

Hehehehe. See what your theories of racial and cultural purity will get you?

So, deporting a person because she lied on her asylum application is because of racial and cultural purity theories? :rolleyes:

If you're on NS General, you have to hate the US, Europe, or Islam, or religion, or Communism, or something. What do you hate?

islam.

Oh noes!

Our culture's going/being improved depended on how you look at it.

And GA - why do you hate Islam?

The actions of a few don't really constitute what Islam's like.

Oh noes!

Our culture's going/being improved depended on how you look at it.

And GA - why do you hate Islam?

The actions of a few don't really constitute what Islam's like.

Unfortunately a lot of people don't understand that.

Finally she's going.

Unfortunately a lot of people don't understand that.

Unfortunately a lot of people are unable to look how people live in islamic countries. It's really funny and shows your level of knowledge, that you, as a gay person, are so islamophile.

Unfortunately a lot of people don't understand that.

Of course they don't. It's much easier seeing things in broad, simplistic, generalising terms. Avoids having to actually think. Thinking leads you to seeing shades of grey and the complexity of the world, and that's just scary.

Of course they don't. It's much easier seeing things in broad, simplistic, generalising terms. Avoids having to actually think. Thinking leads you to seeing shades of grey and the complexity of the world, and that's just scary.

I'm thinking the same for people in your side of the argument. Of course, besides being unable to think, they are also ignorant.

Unfortunately a lot of people are unable to look how people live in islamic countries. It's really funny and shows your level of knowledge, that you, as a gay person, are so islamophile.

...

I'm not even sure where to start here. I'd love to know how you've come to the fact that I'm gay from my post. That should be fascinating.

As to being an Islamophile, I'm not. I'm perfectly aware of the backwards state of most Islmaic countries, and of the oppression that occurs in them. However, I'm also aware that in many of those countries, the people elect the same leaders again and again in democratic elections, such as Saudi Arabia, showing that perhaps they do like the system, even putting election tampering into consideration.

I also realise that Islam as a religion is not evil or wrong, but it is those leaders who pervert the religion and twist it to their own fundamental ends that are the real problem, not the religion itself.

Unfortunately a lot of people are unable to look how people live in islamic countries. It's really funny and shows your level of knowledge, that you, as a gay person, are so islamophile.

Sharia law and the wishes of most Muslims are very, very different. The people at the top in, say, Saudi Arabia, show themselves to be nationalistic, fundamentalist Muslims, because that often gives them a degree of respect from the working class in their country.

Since they weild all of the power, they basically extend their beliefs into law.

I know a lot of Muslims and most of them are extremely nice people, and nothing like how Muslims are presented on the television. Most of them respect anyone, regardless of their sexual leaning, religion, race etc. and try to make peace with them.

Unlike a fair amount of the white nationalists I know, who are uniformly dickheads of the highest order, who insult people because of the colour of their hair.

"Yes, you have ginger hair, hence you are obviously a Scot, hence we hate you because Scotland beat us in a war, but we couldn't possibly admit that that's our reason, so we'll just spit on you and beat you up."

Eugh they're so petty, and scream about "Racial Purity" or whatever. Total bullshit. No part of the world has ethnic purity, and Britain has always been a melting-pot of people and cultures.

But they'd rather believe the BNP's words, after not at all reading their election manifesto, but understanding that they're racist and in their eyes "a good thing because of it".

Bleh.

...

I'm not even sure where to start here. I'd love to know how you've come to the fact that I'm gay from my post. That should be fascinating.

As to being an Islamophile, I'm not. I'm perfectly aware of the backwards state of most Islmaic countries, and of the oppression that occurs in them. However, I'm also aware that in many of those countries, the people elect the same leaders again and again in democratic elections, such as Saudi Arabia, showing that perhaps they do like the system, even putting election tampering into consideration.

I also realise that Islam as a religion is not evil or wrong, but it is those leaders who pervert the religion and twist it to their own fundamental ends that are the real problem, not the religion itself.

Well...I remember reading you were gay, in one of the other threads about homosexuality. Arent you gay?
You are again showing your ignorancy. There are no goverment elections in Saudi Arabia. They hold their first election in 2005, but that was just municipal. And I guess women werent even allowed to vote.
And again you are being simplistic by saying it's all the faults of leaders. Yeah all muslims are so progressive but it's JUST their leaders. :rolleyes: Those couple guys forces millions to follow them. :rolleyes:
Actually, in most muslim countries, ruling elite is more secular and less religious than the general population.

Well...I remember reading you were gay, in one of the other threads about homosexuality. Arent you gay?
You are again showing your ignorancy.
:D

Sorry, the Voices made me do it :p

Sharia law and the wishes of most Muslims are very, very different. The people at the top in, say, Saudi Arabia, show themselves to be nationalistic, fundamentalist Muslims, because that often gives them a degree of respect from the working class in their country.

Since they weild all of the power, they basically extend their beliefs into law.

I know a lot of Muslims and most of them are extremely nice people, and nothing like how Muslims are presented on the television. Most of them respect anyone, regardless of their sexual leaning, religion, race etc. and try to make peace with them.

Unlike a fair amount of the white nationalists I know, who are uniformly dickheads of the highest order, who insult people because of the colour of their hair.

"Yes, you have ginger hair, hence you are obviously a Scot, hence we hate you because Scotland beat us in a war, but we couldn't possibly admit that that's our reason, so we'll just spit on you and beat you up."

Eugh they're so petty, and scream about "Racial Purity" or whatever. Total bullshit. No part of the world has ethnic purity, and Britain has always been a melting-pot of people and cultures.

But they'd rather believe the BNP's words, after not at all reading their election manifesto, but understanding that they're racist and in their eyes "a good thing because of it".

Bleh.


Bleh back to you. Double bleh actually. You are generalizing both "white nationalists" (is there a nation called white?) and muslims based on few people you know. It's really silly. I'm sure if you'd care to think before writing, you might have reached the conclusion that looking at muslim countries is a better way of understanding muslims rather than the attitudes of few people you know. How many muslims do you know anyways? And how much do you know them?
I actually laughed when you said


Most of them respect anyone, regardless of their sexual leaning, religion


Whats the most progressive muslim country? Turkey?


Long oppressed in a largely conservative society, Turkey's homosexuals are timidly coming out for their own share of freedoms as the country's bid to join the European Union is spreads the gospel of human rights and tolerance.

http://news.kaosgl.com/item/2004/10/5/turkey-s-homosexuals-come-out-for-their-rights

It took 10 seconds to find this information, in google. But I guess 10 muslims you know is a more scientific thing to reach conclusions. :rolleyes:

And they wouldnt even TIMIDLY coming out if it wasnt for EU.

Here are more jewels from Turkey. The country that other muslim countries should set as an example. :rolleyes:


Still, prejudice is strong in daily life.

Activists say most of them risk their jobs if they disclose their sexual identity and there are no laws to protect their rights.

The Turkish army, they complain, is the only NATO force to still consider homosexuality a psychological disorder, and the police are notoriously harsh with transsexuals and transvestites.

The Turkish army, they complain, is the only NATO force to still consider homosexuality a psychological disorder, and the police are notoriously harsh with transsexuals and transvestites.

Dont transvestites have psychological disorders? Isnt that were people are messed in mentally and try to change their sex?

Whats the most progressive muslim country? Turkey?

Norway.

I worry about the Netherlands. Before the murder of Theo van Gogh Holland was a Liberal Mecca, a guiding light to all freedom-loving peoples.

But now, the same angry, hate-filled paranoids that have infected political discourse in almost every other Western country have infected Holland. I recognise that this may sound naive to any Dutch readers, but to many liberal-minded people the Netherlands represent an almost romantic idea of a fairytale land of 'everything goes'.

It's just kinda sad to see that being eroded by the factions that rule by fear...

Norway.

Oh, I'm sure Ny Nordland is going to love this. :rolleyes:

I worry about the Netherlands. Before the murder of Theo van Gogh Holland was a Liberal Mecca, a guiding light to all freedom-loving peoples.

But now, the same angry, hate-filled paranoids that have infected political discourse in almost every other Western country have infected Holland. I recognise that this may sound naive to any Dutch readers, but to many liberal-minded people the Netherlands represent an almost romantic idea of a fairytale land of 'everything goes'.

It's just kinda sad to see that being eroded by the factions that rule by fear...

So whos fault is this?

The offensive invaders or the people being invaded whos culture/way of life is on the defensive?

I worry about the Netherlands. Before the murder of Theo van Gogh Holland was a Liberal Mecca, a guiding light to all freedom-loving peoples.

But now, the same angry, hate-filled paranoids that have infected political discourse in almost every other Western country have infected Holland. I recognise that this may sound naive to any Dutch readers, but to many liberal-minded people the Netherlands represent an almost romantic idea of a fairytale land of 'everything goes'.

It's just kinda sad to see that being eroded by the factions that rule by fear...
Well I doubt that the Dutch people were ever consulted on wether they wanted their country colonised by thieves, rapists and murderers. A lot of the Dutch people seem to have had enough of the way their country has been ruined by muslims. So I don't see why they should have to pretend that they like the way their country's gone. Best of luck to them in cleaning their society up.

Well I doubt that the Dutch people were ever consulted on wether they wanted their country colonised by thieves, rapists and murderers. A lot of the Dutch people seem to have had enough of the way their country has been ruined by muslims. So I don't see why they should have to pretend that they like the way their country's gone. Best of luck to them in cleaning their society up.

That's just it, if the Netherlands is anything like my country, I doubt there is even a problem at all, at least not one that justifies the destruction of centuries of liberal tradition. Only highly influential sections of society that would benefit hugely from dividing the Dutch populace and making scapegoats and shadow puppets out of Muslims and immigrants!

Also, the strange thing was, it took Rita Verdonk's IND (Immigration and Naturalisation Service) Only two days to sort out the things about Hirsi Ali, while it takes WAY longer before anything else is sorted out. Months, probably.

Well I doubt that the Dutch people were ever consulted on wether they wanted their country colonised by thieves, rapists and murderers. A lot of the Dutch people seem to have had enough of the way their country has been ruined by muslims. So I don't see why they should have to pretend that they like the way their country's gone. Best of luck to them in cleaning their society up.


Oh, they were consulted about those things!

It was called the Brede Maatschappelijke Discussie ( broad social discussion ), somewhere during the presidency of Bush Sr. - but when it became appearent that the results were not quite as hoped for ( meaning that it looked like a loud: 'Just Say No' ) - the BMD was somehow laid to rest.

That's just it, if the Netherlands is anything like my country, I doubt there is even a problem at all, at least not one that justifies the destruction of centuries of liberal tradition. Only highly influential sections of society that would benefit hugely from dividing the Dutch populace and making scapegoats and shadow puppets out of Muslims and immigrants!
Ah yes, I suppose you're one of those marxist fantasists who seems to think that the Balkanisation of Europe is down to divide and rule by the forces of capitalism? And if you think that it's only the powerful who would benefit from a muslim-free society then you're definitely living in a fantasy world. Ask a Dutch woman who lives in a muslim area, but can't leave the house through fear of being gang raped. Ask the family of Theo van Gogh. The people who would benefit from a society without muslims are average, law abiding people who'll get their country back.

Well...I remember reading you were gay, in one of the other threads about homosexuality. Arent you gay?
You are again showing your ignorancy. There are no goverment elections in Saudi Arabia. They hold their first election in 2005, but that was just municipal. And I guess women werent even allowed to vote.
And again you are being simplistic by saying it's all the faults of leaders. Yeah all muslims are so progressive but it's JUST their leaders. :rolleyes: Those couple guys forces millions to follow them. :rolleyes:
Actually, in most muslim countries, ruling elite is more secular and less religious than the general population.

I'm quite sure I never said I was gay; I am in fact straight. Perhaps you should not make presumptions and assumptions.

My 'Ignorancy'? I'll presume you mean ignorance. Whilst not an expert on Islamic countries, I am aware that in many Islamic countries the populations vote in these oppressive and secular governments time and time again. Whilst there is of course voting fraud and often few opposition parties, this would seem to show that many in these populations want these governments, whether they are oppressive or not. Whilst not exactly pure democracy, many of these countries vote in governments they want, which are Islamic and oppressive - take Palestine as an example. The Palestinians recently voted in Hamas into government despite it being in effect a terrorist organisation.

Thus, the governments are what many of the people want. If they wish to remain oppressed and traditionalist, then that is their choice. We may well see it as wrong, but it is again their choice.

Well I doubt that the Dutch people were ever consulted on wether they wanted their country colonised by thieves, rapists and murderers. A lot of the Dutch people seem to have had enough of the way their country has been ruined by muslims. So I don't see why they should have to pretend that they like the way their country's gone. Best of luck to them in cleaning their society up.

Thieves, rapists and murderers? How many Muslims do you know, exactly? Why are you tarring an entire religion on the actions of a few?

I would gladly welcome her. She sounds like a great lady. I'm glad she stands up for herself. Ty for the article. I've never heard of her. :)

Here's a link to what some in the US thinks

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060518/en_afp/usnetherlandsislam_060518201714

1. Yes, the OP was largely sarcastic.

2. What I find funny is that the types who can't stand Islam are also the types who are against foreigners and immigration. That may not be the case in the US, but it certainly is in Europe.
And now we have an intelligent woman who stands firmly on the side of the self-proclaimed protectors of "European culture" against the Islamic Hordes - deported because of the xenophobic laws, regulations and implementations that these protectors support.

Perhaps I'm the only one who sees the irony in this.

And here are a few more links to the general topic.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,411903,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,329735,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,329292,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,329060,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,328522,00.html

This is awesome. (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,416587,00.html)

Most of you will remember the long discussions about Muslim immigrants in the EU, and all the other Islam-related debates of recent months.

Some of you may have used material from a certain Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a woman from Somalia who spends her time calling Islam all sorts of things (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,356485,00.html).

Well, guess what.

She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands, so her arse is going back home!
(Well, maybe not exactly, she'll be moving to the States, to work for the American Enterprise Institute. :rolleyes: )

Hehehehe. See what your theories of racial and cultural purity will get you?
WTF? It's a good thing that this madperson is going to the States? Screw you sir, Screw you.

Thus, the governments are what many of the people want. If they wish to remain oppressed and traditionalist, then that is their choice. We may well see it as wrong, but it is again their choice.
They can be traditionalist, but they are oppressing minorities and women in their countries. I am left-wing and thus supportive of the underdog. Nobody has a right to oppress other people, even if they appeal to tradition. Not anywhere in the world.

1. Yes, the OP was largely sarcastic.

2. What I find funny is that the types who can't stand Islam are also the types who are against foreigners and immigration. That may not be the case in the US, but it certainly is in Europe.
And now we have an intelligent woman who stands firmly on the side of the self-proclaimed protectors of "European culture" against the Islamic Hordes - deported because of the xenophobic laws, regulations and implementations that these protectors support.

Perhaps I'm the only one who sees the irony in this.

And here are a few more links to the general topic.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,411903,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,329735,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,329292,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,329060,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,328522,00.html

Those articles seem to be more negative in their showing of Islam than positive.

Do you agree with them?
In the first one, did you read, on the left side, what they were preaching in the mosque about the Jews in Israel?

I doubt it. He's German.





Hes a German who hates his people, culture, and nation. That about explains his opinions.

Those articles seem to be more negative in their showing of Islam than positive.
Do you agree with them?
Well, that's because they're focussing on the problems. Obviously that will not give you a particularly positive light, but obviously that's not the whole issue either.

But yes, there are problems, and the articles are largely reporting facts. My solution however, as I have said before, is not to work against Islam in Europe, but instead to promote a sort of "Euro-Islam" that is more compatible with Western values, and might then even go on to influence the Middle East positively.

Perhaps I'm the only one who sees the irony in this.
No, you're not alone ;)
I just still don't know how I feel about this.

Hes a German who hates his people, culture, and nation. That about explains his opinions.
http://www.buddy-icons.info/img/smile/1455.gif

If you're on NS General, you have to hate the US, Europe, or Islam, or religion, or Communism, or something. What do you hate?

Me, myself and I. ;)

I doubt it. He's German.
Well that is very interesting...

Did Germany invade the rest of Europe twice because it loved it9Europe) or because it hated it?

Did Germany invade the rest of Europe twice because it loved it9Europe) or because it hated it?
I don't think it matters. Unless of course you'd be saying that both Europe and Germany haven't changed. Which would be silly.

At any rate, I don't mind European culture, whatever that might be. I do mind xenophobes and conservatives.

Hes a German who hates his people, culture, and nation. That about explains his opinions.

lol.

No, hes just another one of those Germans thats afraid to have pride because pride can lead to nationalism and in ONE CASE nationalism led to Nazism.

He doesnt hate his people/culture/nation, though.

In fact, he wants to move back there.

I don't think it matters. Unless of course you'd be saying that both Europe and Germany haven't changed. Which would be silly.

At any rate, I don't mind European culture, whatever that might be. I do mind xenophobes and conservatives.

lol....hmmm...that would be me.

I don't think it matters. Unless of course you'd be saying that both Europe and Germany haven't changed. Which would be silly.

At any rate, I don't mind European culture, whatever that might be. I do mind xenophobes and conservatives.
I 'was' being silly, but no i didn't mean Germany or Europe where unchanged.