NationStates Jolt Archive

If I have repeated something that has already been discussed on a previous thread, I apologize. I am rather new, and though I used the Forum Search, I didn't find anything similar. If there is, please pass on the link so that I can browse it. Much appreciated.

There has been some debate in my Feminist Theory class lately, regarding the role of the "father" in the conception and rasing of a child, and I was wondering what the popular opinion was on the subject. What do you think the role of the father is, or should be? Are men essential in raising a child? Is it right for a single woman to decide to have a child? What of a lesbian couple (please keep homophobic comments to a minimum here, this is not the nature of this question)? I suppose the same might be asked of women. Can a man have a child on his own, or two men? Again, please keep in mind that the main purpose of this question is not to discern your opinions on same-sex couples per se, but whether a parent of both genders is needed to raise a child. Thank you.

As far as I understand it a father isn't necessary, but a male role model is. I could be totally wrong.

I would say that the sex of the parents does not matter in the least but I do believe that two parents are better than one. The simple fact is that parenting is a full time job and in order to pull that of in the best way you need two responsible adults. I do believe that fathers deserve equal rights in regard to their children and not have the courts favor the mother in custody disputes.

As far as I understand it a father isn't necessary, but a male role model is. I could be totally wrong.

Your sig says otherwise... :p

Honestly, though, I think it's up to the individual parents to decide their roles.

Nope, only one is needed. The child will need strong role-models from each gender, but can be raised by a single parent. IIRC, it is best if the child is with the parent of the opposite gender.

Nope, only one is needed. The child will need strong role-models from each gender, but can be raised by a single parent. IIRC, it is best if the child is with the parent of the opposite gender.

I'm not sure that that's true. Personally, I live with my mom, and I'm completely happy. She's much better at the "caring, concerned" parent role. My dad usually has no clue what's going on. And it's not like he misses me, since he's found himself a new family to attend to.

I'm not sure that that's true. Personally, I live with my mom, and I'm completely happy. She's much better at the "caring, concerned" parent role. My dad usually has no clue what's going on. And it's not like he misses me, since he's found himself a new family to attend to.
I'm not terribly sure it is true either.

If I have repeated something that has already been discussed on a previous thread, I apologize. I am rather new, and though I used the Forum Search, I didn't find anything similar. If there is, please pass on the link so that I can browse it. Much appreciated.

There has been some debate in my Feminist Theory class lately, regarding the role of the "father" in the conception and rasing of a child, and I was wondering what the popular opinion was on the subject. What do you think the role of the father is, or should be? Are men essential in raising a child? Is it right for a single woman to decide to have a child? What of a lesbian couple (please keep homophobic comments to a minimum here, this is not the nature of this question)? I suppose the same might be asked of women. Can a man have a child on his own, or two men? Again, please keep in mind that the main purpose of this question is not to discern your opinions on same-sex couples per se, but whether a parent of both genders is needed to raise a child. Thank you.
It's been brought up often enough - just like most other things - don't mean you shouldn't feel free to open it up to discuss on your own terms again though.

The first observation is that a father's role in the conception of a child is fairly obvious. That is really not up to much debate beyond sensory preferences.

As far as determining if men are essential in raising a child - the better question - particularly in a feminism class - would be are women necessary. Afterall - it is the feminists who suggest that a woman should be at work instead of whith her children during their developmental years before school. Also - an argument to the contrary would also give you the answer of what it is that men do bring into a relationship.

There is no doubt that a strong and healthy partnership between a man and a woman in a household result in happier and healthier children - so the participation and contribution of both genders is not at question. The question is identifying the specific strengths and how they manifest in modern society.

IMHO the strength of men is best defined by pulling their finger - and women by their reaction every time a father's finger is pulled. :)

As far as same sex households - the data is too limited at this time. Also worth noting is that in single parent households a child often has a negative role model in one parent or the other - a proper study would differentiate single parent households where the parents are both still reasonable people from those with adverse relationships.

I would postulate that a child would be best served by masculine and feminine roles in a household - but the organs attached would likely have litle impact. (barring - of course - bizarre gender confused behavior)

The ideal is an extended family, not a nuclear family (two parents plus offspring). Raising children is a difficult, mind-numbing, time- and money- consuming job. The modern notion that two people can do it competently is a large part of what is wrong with kids today. I am not slamming single parents, I am one - I raised a son and daughter with precious little input from their father (who was busy starting another family to neglect) and little to no support from the rest of my family - I did have friends, though (and my kids turned out just fine, one cop and one epidemiologist) and that's what got me through it.

The point is, it doesn't matter whether the parents are homosexual, heterosexual, single or paired - you can't do it adequately without lots of support from family and friends.

Parenting neither requires two parents of the same-sex, opposite sex, or interspecies. If one parent has the complete responsibility of raising a child, it can be done without negative effects. If the parent raising the child(ren) devotes quality time to the child/ren and let's the child/ren know that they are loved no matter what and can achieve whatever they put their heart and mind to, a healthy and completely functional child is possible.

Some children even grow up with more respect for their parent from seeing how the parent worked extra hard and made even more sacrifices for their well-being. I don't think parents are 100% responsible for the outcome of a child, but I do think that they have a strong effect on the child.

I also know for a fact that parents of the same sex can raise a perfectly normal, highly-productive child. My best friend had two moms and she was wonderfully intelligent, creative and charming. It all comes down to the type of person/s involved in the rearing of a child.

A single parent of either sex can raise a child. I was raised, alone, by my Father, and the worse that happened to me was a mild case if Insanity.

The answer is that there are no simple answers to this sort of question--B0zzy's straw-feminists notwithstanding. Parenting is the most personal job you can ever take on--some single mothers or fathers do quite well. I think I've done pretty well raising my daughter, but it's not like her mother hasn't had a big part in it. For that matter, especially in the last five years, my girlfriend has been a huge influence on my daughter, and her parents are closer to my daughter than mine are.

The answer is that there are no simple answers to this sort of question--B0zzy's straw-feminists notwithstanding. Parenting is the most personal job you can ever take on--some single mothers or fathers do quite well. I think I've done pretty well raising my daughter, but it's not like her mother hasn't had a big part in it. For that matter, especially in the last five years, my girlfriend has been a huge influence on my daughter, and her parents are closer to my daughter than mine are.

Straw-feminists? I was thinking more along the lines of sipping feminists. WTF are you talking about?

There is no doubt that some single parents do well. There is also no doubt that some married couples do shitty. However the research indicates that children from two-parent households are healthier happier and more successful in general. Sorry if the facts don't fit well into your opinion. Hell- I was even nice enough to point out some of the potential flaws of those studies - but I guess that just isn't enough to satisfy your bias.

Your loss - not mine.

Windling;

Here is an article which I thought would be useful for your class and this thread;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4986804.stm


Ian Mucklejohn made history when he became the first single man in the UK to have his own children without a female partner.

It can address the potential of a completely single parent endeavor. I frankly think this was a selfish endeavor on his part and these kids missed out on the primary life experience of having a mommy. It is not that he protected them from a bad one - he completely denied them the opportunity. sad.


here is another article;

http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2005/0615morse.html

The problem with this argument is just this: with the possible exception of same-sex couples, I don't think I have ever known anyone who aspired to being part of an "alternative family."

The issue isn't whether we are going to banish all children from non-married couple families to the fringes of society. The issue is what kind of child rearing environment are we going to endorse and support in society.

necessary is such a misleading word

a child can almost be raised by wolves. (not to its best potential. they will have bad posture, poor verbal skills, a tendency to howl)

a child can successfully be raised by one parent of either gender, two parents of whatever gender, an extended family. what matters is how good a job these parents do. if they are loving and attentive, the child will be fine. if they are cold and uncaring or worse yet cruel and abusive, the child will turn out with severe problems.

its good for children to have both close male and female influences--even if they have a mother and a father raising them but more so if they are being raised by one parent alone. its good but its not "necessary". few children grow up with only the influence of one parent. they live in society, they have extended family of one sort or another. they see how different people live and they take their influences as they need them.

Fathers serve as male role models which every child needs. Also, father is the law enforcer in the household whereas the mother is the law maker. My parents are divorced and I live with my mother. I only see my dad about once a month. However, I do look to him as a role model and he instilled a respect for women, respect for my elders, and stuff along those lines in me.

Straw-feminists? I was thinking more along the lines of sipping feminists. WTF are you talking about?

There is no doubt that some single parents do well. There is also no doubt that some married couples do shitty. However the research indicates that children from two-parent households are healthier happier and more successful in general. Sorry if the facts don't fit well into your opinion. Hell- I was even nice enough to point out some of the potential flaws of those studies - but I guess that just isn't enough to satisfy your bias.

Your loss - not mine.
This, B0zzy, is an example of straw-feminism (like a straw man, only feminist, get it?)
As far as determining if men are essential in raising a child - the better question - particularly in a feminism class - would be are women necessary. Afterall - it is the feminists who suggest that a woman should be at work instead of whith her children during their developmental years before school. Also - an argument to the contrary would also give you the answer of what it is that men do bring into a relationship.
You'll be hard-pressed to find mainstream feminists who question whether men are beneficial in the raising of children. But you make it sound like feminists are men-haters who decry the evils that men bring to child-raising--that's burning the straw-feminist tactics there, and that's what I was calling bullshit on.

This, B0zzy, is an example of straw-feminism (like a straw man, only feminist, get it?) ahh - now I do. Clever, but still incorrect. It is incorrect in that a statement of fact is not a straw-(insert preferred gender here) argument.

You'll be hard-pressed to find mainstream feminists who question whether men are beneficial in the raising of children. But you make it sound like feminists are men-haters who decry the evils that men bring to child-raising--that's burning the straw-feminist tactics there, and that's what I was calling bullshit on.
I was responding specifically to this;

Are men essential in raising a child?
Which - first of all - is a question of dubious merit - particularly in a college level class on 'feminism'. It would rate right up there with 'should all witches be burned?' being asked in a religious studies class or "do blacks really deserve the right to vote?' in a Civics class. A more suitable question would be "what are the roles fathers play in raising a child and how do they differ from the roles of mothers?"

Now, considering the thoroughly offensive nature of the question - I responded in suitable fashion and simply turned the question around. I made no statement about feminists 'hating' anyone. That part was added by you.

If you found that offensive then you now know how offensive the original question was. I do agree that most feminists are not intentionally hostile to men. However when a college level instructor starts teaching bias - intentional or not - I too will call "bullshit" - it is only too sad that nobody in the class had the courage to.

Considering that my dad passed way 6 years ago, I'll have to say that single mothers suck at understanding teenage males (at least mind did anways).
She had no problem understand and dealing with issues regarding my sister but when it came to me, she had no idea.
And it got to the point where I just stopped going to her for any kind of advice since the majority of the time she'd be way out.


If the children are mixed gender, let the parent with a stable relationship have the kids.
Just having a male or female around just as a "role model" doesn't cut it.
They need to be a real parent, or not be there are all since the effect is pretty much the same.

And to follow that up, if the child[ren] is/are one gender, grant custody to the parent of said gender regardless of marital status. And in the case where said parent is deceased / in jail / whatever, custody to the other parent, logically.

The posts here, and links, have proven extremely interesting, and I hope I'll have the opportunity to discuss some of the points brought up here at the next lecture. Thank you, everyone.

There is one small detail that I would like to point out, however. Perhaps I should have been more specific in my first post, but never once did my professor question the necessity of a man in the raising of a child. It was actually brought up by a fellow student, a woman who is offended when friends or family suggest she not let a lack of partner stop her from having a second longed-for child. She believed that a father is necessary in the raising of a child, and that it would be irresponsible to have a child without a male partner. This comment was made toward the end of class, and we did not have the opportunity to discuss it that night. I was extremely curious about the subject, however, which is what instigated my post. Just thought I'd clear things up.

i would tend to disagree with your classmate.

as long as a woman has a stable life with a good job that pays well while alowing her the extra time she will need to spend with her child, i dont think that she should forgo childbearing forever just because she doesnt have a husband.

it is however extremely difficult to be a single parent. its much harder on the good single parent than it is on the child s/he raises. its the kind of stress you dont know exists until you are in the middle of it and its too late to change your mind.

I think the optimum situation is two parents, one male, one female, that can stand to be under the same roof with each other.

Follow that in this order:

two parents, regardless of gender, who can stand to be under the same roof with each other.

one parent, either gender, who is not self-absorbed.

two parents, who cant stand each other, under the same roof

Grandparent raising abandoned grandchild

one parent, either gender, who is self absorbed.

foster care

any number of abusive parents...dead fucking last.

I think the ideal situation provides a polarity of some sort providing stability (as parenting can be like a high-wire act). Opposite sexes provides a nice polarity, but if ya can't have that, then two personalities, regardless of gender, who love each other, is my next best option.

I am very pleased to have two biological parents, one of each gender. I think that is the best combination, although if things end up otherwise it can still work. Someday, when I get married and have kids, I hope that I can be half the couple that my parents were. ;) Seriously, I do think that it is important for kids to have positive parental figures of both sexes (Regardless of the child's gender), be they biological parents or not.