NationStates Jolt Archive

[Congressman murtha] they were murdered in cold blood [congressman murtha]

:D

BWAHAhAHAHA! That interpreter deserves a payraise and a big slap on the back.



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Wrong number: Interpreter answers cell phone, dupes insurgents


By Jeff Schogol, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Saturday, April 22, 2006


IBRAHIM AL MARKHUR, Iraq — One misplaced cell phone and one savvy interpreter equaled one dead insurgent, several pieces of intelligence and a whole lot of captured weapons.

On a routine patrol, U.S. troops with 1st Battalion, 68th Armor came upon a house in the midst of dense greenery and at the end of a dusty country road.

Staff Sgt. Matthew Nicodemus, 33, said he immediately noticed that no Iraqi men were around.

Suddenly, a cell phone inside the home rang, said Nicodemus, of Altoona, Pa.

“The interpreter went in and answered the phone, and on the other end of the phone the person said, in Arabic, ‘Hey, coalition forces are here, go ahead and run away,’ and he specifically said, ‘Go and run into the palm groves all around here,’ ” Nicodemus said.

The troops then fanned out into the palm groves and found several weapons including several rocket-propelled grenades and hand grenades, two AK-47s and a new sniper’s rifle, Nicodemus said.

They also found a hand-written map of a U.S. military base, diagrams on how to build rockets and a CD-ROM with several thousand files written in Arabic, said Sgt. 1st Class Michael Greer, 35, of San Luis Obispo, Calif.

If that weren’t enough, the insurgent kept calling the interpreter back to ask what the Americans were doing.

The interpreter kept the act going.

“He’s basically acting like, you know, he’s watching us ... making sure everything is fine,” Nicodemus said.

The U.S. troops knew the insurgents were coming back and decided to lie in wait for them.

Many troops said they were psyched by the prospect of killing the person on the other end of the phone.

“I love this [expletive],” said Sgt. Nicholas Hake-Jordan, 23, of Springfield, Ore.

The troops didn’t have to wait long.

Shortly after U.S. troops set up, the insurgents called the interpreter and said they would be by in about 10 minutes to attack the Americans, said Staff Sgt. Art Hoffman, 30.

When seven insurgents got to the house, they ran into a wall of U.S. fire, said Hoffman, of Baltimore.

“The first guy that came in the door just dropped like a rock. The other two guys behind him got hit pretty hard, too. The rest grabbed their wounded and just ran back off,” said Hoffman.

One insurgent was confirmed killed in the fighting and the other two were in bad shape, he said.

Afterward, the battalion commander, Lt. Col. Thomas Fisher, 42, praised his soldiers’ actions.

“The initiative demonstrated at the platoon level is exactly how you win this fight,” said Fisher, of Sioux Falls, S.D.

Your very first line confuses me. Who said what when, now?

Other than that, it's a pretty cool story.

I must be missing something. Obviously you find someone dying hilarious, but I'm simply not seeing it.

Would your reaction be the same if it were Coalition forces lured via cellphone into an IED?

I must be missing something. Obviously you find someone dying hilarious, but I'm simply not seeing it.

Would your reaction be the same if it were Coalition forces lured via cellphone into an IED?
I'm guessing he's not much past the age where pulling the wings off flies was still enjoyable...

I must be missing something. Obviously you find someone dying hilarious, but I'm simply not seeing it.

Would your reaction be the same if it were Coalition forces lured via cellphone into an IED?
You completely miss the concept of rooting for your team, don't you?

That was a rude surprise for them. Clever tactics.

Your very first line confuses me. Who said what when, now?

There's an investigation underway into an incident where Marines (allegedly) killed fifteen unarmed civilians, including women and children.

Murtha has called the killings cold blooded murders. He jumped the gun on this. Innocence until proven guilty and all that jazz.

Here's more on it. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838343/)

You completely miss the concept of rooting for your team, don't you?
Equating war with a sporting event might be the key to a great deal of our problems...

You know, in Iraq with IED's up the wazoo you wouldn't get me to answer mysteriously ringing cell phones in suspiciously abandoned houses in remote locations for love nor money. That took guts.

See kids, prank calls can get get you killed.

Equating war with a sporting event might be the key to a great deal of our problems...

That's not what he's saying. When your home nation is at war with another nation, wouldn't you be supporting your army, whether it be with working on the homefront, or joining the army yourself. Unless you're a submissive pussy that doesn't mind being conquered and having your sovereign nation taken away from you.

The only case I could see where you support the opposing army is if you live in an oppressive regime.

You know, in Iraq with IED's up the wazoo you wouldn't get me to answer mysteriously ringing cell phones in suspiciously abandoned houses in remote locations for love nor money. That took guts.

I think the interpreter just didn't think about it. The insurgents didn't even think at all. evidenced by the fact they returned to a house that had just been raided by US troops.

Seems to me that the Iraqi interpreter is the main reason the US forces were able to do what they did. He was the fast thinker, he knew what to do. The Americans just waited behind the door to shoot the insurgents when they came to the house. Military intelligence I think not.

Your very first line confuses me. Who said what when, now?

Other than that, it's a pretty cool story.

CONgressman murtha is a big domestic enemy of the troops. He is hated among the ranks.

That's not what he's saying. When your home nation is at war with another nation, wouldn't you be supporting your army, whether it be with working on the homefront, or joining the army yourself. Unless you're a submissive pussy that doesn't mind being conquered and having your sovereign nation taken away from you.

The only case I could see where you support the opposing army is if you live in an oppressive regime.
In case you haven't noticed, Iraq was not trying to take away your sovereign nation. Quite the opposite in fact, America violated the sovreignty of Iraq.

Oh, and mindlessly supporting one's country makes one the ultimate pussy.

Seems to me that the Iraqi interpreter is the main reason the US forces were able to do what they did. He was the fast thinker, he knew what to do. The Americans just waited behind the door to shoot the insurgents when they came to the house. Military intelligence I think not.

MI-military interpreter.

Had there be no interpreter an American with language training would have done it-yes, they are out there.

Interpreters are a part of every patrol because they are necessary (Unless there is a guy who knows it already)

There's an investigation underway into an incident where Marines (allegedly) killed fifteen unarmed civilians, including women and children.

Murtha has called the killings cold blooded murders. He jumped the gun on this. Innocence until proven guilty and all that jazz.

Here's more on it. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838343/)
But that hasn't got anything to do with this story? Or am I missing something here? :confused:

You completely miss the concept of rooting for your team, don't you?
My team? LOL.

I love moral relativism. Every day is a victory. :D

In case you haven't noticed, Iraq was not trying to take away your sovereign nation. Quite the opposite in fact, America violated the sovreignty of Iraq.

Oh, and mindlessly supporting one's country makes one the ultimate pussy.

Negative, Saddam violated several components of the original GFW1 cease fire.

He had it coming.

But that hasn't got anything to do with this story? Or am I missing something here? :confused:

In his eyes every US guy is a bad guy.

But that hasn't got anything to do with this story? Or am I missing something here? :confused:

No, it has nothing to do with the story. I assumed it was there because the OP assumes that Marines could never do anything illegal and everybody they kill are confirmed terrorists and is using this story to back up his assertion. That's just how I read it however.

In his eyes every US guy is a bad guy.


Wasn't Murtha a marine? Though I'm sure you knew that.

You completely miss the concept of rooting for your team, don't you?

There's a hairs bit of difference between rooting for the Steelers for the Superbowl, and laughing at the killing of a fellow human being.

In his eyes every US guy is a bad guy.

From wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtha#US_Marine_and_decorated_Vietnam_War_veteran):

In 1959, then Captain Murtha took command of the 34th Special Infantry Company, Marine Corps Reserves, in Johnstown. He remained in the Reserves after his discharge from active duty until he volunteered for service in Vietnam in 1966-67, serving as a battalion staff officer (S-2 Intelligence Section), receiving the Bronze Star with Combat "V" for valor in combat, two Purple Hearts and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. He retired from the Reserves as a colonel in 1990, receiving the Navy Distinguished Service Medal.

Yep, that's an anti-American traitor right there.

From wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtha#US_Marine_and_decorated_Vietnam_War_veteran):

Yep, that's an anti-American traitor right there.

So was Benedict Arnold. An officer who served with disinction and then turned around and betrayed everything he stood for.

From wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtha#US_Marine_and_decorated_Vietnam_War_veteran):



Yep, that's an anti-American traitor right there.

Just like that traitor John Kerry, or that fella from Georgia who lost both legs and an arm and was tarred and feathered by the GOP.

So was Benedict Arnold. An officer who served with disinction and then turned around and betrayed everything he stood for.


Funny, Democrats who served get compared to Benedict Arnold, Republicans who served get compared to Jesus.

From wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtha#US_Marine_and_decorated_Vietnam_War_veteran):



Yep, that's an anti-American traitor right there.

So was Benedict arnold at one time. So was that one soldier who went crazy and killed two of his superiors.

Funny, Democrats who served get compared to Benedict Arnold, Republicans who served get compared to Jesus.

Not really-Mccain is a flipping moron.

It's more about policies and ideas and general stance. I absolutely love Zell Miller-and he's a democrat.

BWAHAhAHAHA! That interpreter deserves a payraise and a big slap on the back.

Why? It's hardly a new idea. British snipers in Northern Ireland frequently phoned rebel-held buildings to lure the rebels over to the windows so they could shoot them.

There's a hairs bit of difference between rooting for the Steelers for the Superbowl, and laughing at the killing of a fellow human being.
It's a quantitative difference though, not qualitative. War is just football on a much more extreme level.

Negative, Saddam violated several components of the original GFW1 cease fire.

He had it coming.
Which ones?

Which ones?
Attacking the Kurds, for one.

Negative, Saddam violated several components of the original GFW1 cease fire.

He had it coming.You're kidding me right? That ceasefire was about 10 years old. Iraq had been violating the ceasefire agreement for sometime, and yet the USA did nothing. Iraq and the USA were at peace. The only 'real' thing which could have legitimised the US invasion of Iraq in terms of international law was if Iraq violated another countries sovereignty, which it hadn't.

Your very first line confuses me. Who said what when, now?

Other than that, it's a pretty cool story.the first line is in reference to the congressman heading the investigation about troops shooting civilians in cold blood. different incident.

Why? It's hardly a new idea. British snipers in Northern Ireland frequently phoned rebel-held buildings to lure the rebels over to the windows so they could shoot them.

As if we ever needed a reason to slap a comrade on the back for a job well done.

It's more about policies and ideas and general stance. I absolutely love Zell Miller-and he's a democrat.
Yeah, I remember him... That's the guy who said something akin to "I was born a democrat and I'm going to die a democrat, even if I agree with almost all of the republican values and policies, and almost none of the values and policies of the democratic party anymore."

Crazy old kook :D

You're kidding me right? That ceasefire was about 10 years old. Iraq had been violating the ceasefire agreement for sometime, and yet the USA did nothing. Iraq and the USA were at peace. The only 'real' thing which could have legitimised the US invasion of Iraq in terms of international law was if Iraq violated another countries sovereignty, which it hadn't.

We finnaly got a president who would do more than launch a few token airstrikes.

Of course, the UN thing that gave the US the power to invade.....:D

Yeah, I remember him... That's the guy who said something akin to "I was born a democrat and I'm going to die a democrat, even if I agree with almost all of the republican values and policies, and almost none of the values and policies of the democratic party anymore."

Crazy old kook :D

I got to shake his hand when he came to my Univ. in Florida.

As if we ever needed a reason to slap a comrade on the back for a job well done.
:eek:
Commie!!

*flees*

We finnaly got a president who would do more than launch a few token airstrikes.

Of course, the UN thing that gave the US the power to invade.....:DIt was only really the US and the UK who ever thought that the resolution was enough on its own to allow for a coalition invasion. Everyone else were pretty much insisting that another resolution needed to passed (which was drafted and never passed as I recall).

My brother gets this kind of propaganda on a daily basis. There is no telling how true this little story is... Sounds like a nice screenplay treatment...

Nice bullshit story. Personally, I find it far fetched that they would even hear the cell phone and secondly, that they would say the soldiers are 'here'. Which would imply the caller could see the soldiers entering the house and be in the area.

Sorry, just doesn't add up.

It's a quantitative difference though, not qualitative. War is just football on a much more extreme level.

Football is played for the mutual enjoyment of both parties and for the fans, with the mutual consent of both teams. War is not done for enjoyment(at least for most people), nor is often done with mutual consent.

Football uses violence at minimal levels, and injury/killing is not the prime goal of the players - it is in fact to be avoided. War uses violence at extreme levels, and the combatents' express goal is to kill their opponent.

They are similar only inasmuch as they are both competitions of a sort, and both employ force. The devil's in the details, though.

But that's not even terribly important. Say we assume they(football and war) are morally equal. I would still take issue if the OP had celebrated the injury/death of a player on a team he doesn't like. The issue is the finding of amusement in something horrible happening to someone.

:eek:
Commie!!

*flees*

DM . And Communism don't go in the same sentence. I only use Comrade as a synonym for buddy...etc

Don't worry, I'm not going commie. It's better to be dead than Commie Red :D

YAHOO!!! End terrorism, support our troops. HAHAHAHA DIE YOU TERRORIST SCUM-BAGS!!!!:mp5: HAHAHA!!! EVIL TAKES ANOTHER DEFEAT!!!:D

USA! USA! USA! USA ! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

"Oh say can you see..."

God bless America!

Nice bullshit story. Personally, I find it far fetched that they would even hear the cell phone and secondly, that they would say the soldiers are 'here'. Which would imply the caller could see the soldiers entering the house and be in the area.

Sorry, just doesn't add up.

So I guess Arabic cell phones don't have audible rintones? Heck I can hear mine from across the house at night, and during the day across the living room.

Insurgents are not, by nature, smart. Who knows what they do-my goldfish (who is..named..FISH!) shows more intelligence than most of them do. It only takes so many brains to pop up behind some burnt out carcass of a car, shout allahu ackbar, and monkey-pump that AK.

YAHOO!!! End terrorism, support our troops. HAHAHAHA DIE YOU TERRORIST SCUM-BAGS!!!!:mp5: HAHAHA!!! EVIL TAKES ANOTHER DEFEAT!!!:D

USA! USA! USA! USA ! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

"Oh say can you see..."

God bless America!


To this, I answer.........

Sing with me! America the beautiful o'er amber waves of grain to purple mountain's majesty, across the fruited plain.....

America, America God Shed his grace on thee.....:D

Nice bullshit story. Personally, I find it far fetched that they would even hear the cell phone and secondly, that they would say the soldiers are 'here'. Which would imply the caller could see the soldiers entering the house and be in the area.

Sorry, just doesn't add up.

I dunno, my personal cell, when I turn the ringer volume to max, can be heard for at least 50-60 feet. Loud little bastard.

YAHOO!!! End terrorism, support our troops. HAHAHAHA DIE YOU TERRORIST SCUM-BAGS!!!!:mp5: HAHAHA!!! EVIL TAKES ANOTHER DEFEAT!!!:D

USA! USA! USA! USA ! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

"Oh say can you see..."

God bless America!
Calling Parkus Empire, it's time for your medication. Please pick up your pills at the counter.

DM . And Communism don't go in the same sentence. I only use Comrade as a synonym for buddy...etc

Don't worry, I'm not going commie. It's better to be dead than Commie Red :D
That's what they all say, Камрад...

Babushka!

Calling Parkus Empire, it's time for your medication. Please pick up your pills at the counter.


That's what they all say, Камрад...

Babushka!

Shtoyetto.

I must be missing something. Obviously you find someone dying hilarious, but I'm simply not seeing it.

Would your reaction be the same if it were Coalition forces lured via cellphone into an IED?

I think you and others that think like you miss the point sometimes. Someone dying is not hilarious. But in a combat zone it is either kill or be killed. These insurgents would not hesitate to kill the US soldiers if given the chance. This is why this is a nice little score for our troops. I would rather see an insurgent in a body bag than a US soldier.

You second point is absolutely invalid in this arguement. Although it does show your mindset. All I can say is don't be stupid.

I think you and others that think like you miss the point sometimes. Someone dying is not hilarious. But in a combat zone it is either kill or be killed. These insurgents would not hesitate to kill the US soldiers if given the chance. This is why this is a nice little score for our troops. I would rather see an insurgent in a body bag than a US soldier.

You second point is absolutely invalid in this arguement. Although it does show your mindset. All I can say is don't be stupid.

How is said argument is invalid? If the OP can come out in support of US troops killing insurgents, then it is surely fair and non-hypocritical if other posters can celebrate when insurgents kill US and Coalition troops? To be fair, of course.



And before anyone starts jumping on me for supporting the deaths of Coalition troops, please don't. I don't support that. I may find the war pointless, but that doesn't mean I cheer whenever I hear of a dead Coalition soldier. I'm merely making a valid point here.

In case you haven't noticed, Iraq was not trying to take away your sovereign nation. Quite the opposite in fact, America violated the sovreignty of Iraq.

Oh, and mindlessly supporting one's country makes one the ultimate pussy.

I was never talking about Iraq; just about war in general. Especially WW1 and WW2.

How is said argument is invalid? If the OP can come out in support of US troops killing insurgents, then it is surely fair and non-hypocritical if other posters can celebrate when insurgents kill US and Coalition troops? To be fair, of course.



And before anyone starts jumping on me for supporting the deaths of Coalition troops, please don't. I don't support that. I may find the war pointless, but that doesn't mean I cheer whenever I hear of a dead Coalition soldier. I'm merely making a valid point here.


Well your right if he stated that he was cheering on the insurgents. Although that would probably get someone flamed to death. Now he was asking the OP if he would have the same reaction to coalition troops being killed. It is very obvious that the OP would not react in that way. That is why I said don't be stupid. It was a dumb remark to be made in the context he made it.

Equating war with a sporting event might be the key to a great deal of our problems...
Not nearly so much as equating the lives of Coalition servicemen with those of terrorists.

Why? It's hardly a new idea. British snipers in Northern Ireland frequently phoned rebel-held buildings to lure the rebels over to the windows so they could shoot them.
This wasn't a planned op, though: the interpreter improvised remarkably well, and he should be commended.

I think you and others that think like you miss the point sometimes. Someone dying is not hilarious. But in a combat zone it is either kill or be killed. These insurgents would not hesitate to kill the US soldiers if given the chance. This is why this is a nice little score for our troops. I would rather see an insurgent in a body bag than a US soldier.

You second point is absolutely invalid in this arguement. Although it does show your mindset. All I can say is don't be stupid.

Well your right if he stated that he was cheering on the insurgents. Although that would probably get someone flamed to death. Now he was asking the OP if he would have the same reaction to coalition troops being killed. It is very obvious that the OP would not react in that way. That is why I said don't be stupid. It was a dumb remark to be made in the context he made it.


Thank you for your opinion, but I'm not 'being stupid.' I was being sarcastic.

I *know* he wouldn't respond the same way to the Insurgent killing US Marine scenario. In fact, I'm reasonably certain he'd be sickened by the thought of people reacting in such a way. I was pointing out the hypocricy.

Why? It's hardly a new idea. British snipers in Northern Ireland frequently phoned rebel-held buildings to lure the rebels over to the windows so they could shoot them.

Eh?

Insurgents are not, by nature, smart.

Yet you still can't beat them. Tells you something...

How is said argument is invalid? If the OP can come out in support of US troops killing insurgents, then it is surely fair and non-hypocritical if other posters can celebrate when insurgents kill US and Coalition troops? To be fair, of course.



And before anyone starts jumping on me for supporting the deaths of Coalition troops, please don't. I don't support that. I may find the war pointless, but that doesn't mean I cheer whenever I hear of a dead Coalition soldier. I'm merely making a valid point here.
there is a difference. for one, the insurgent who called didn't ask whom he was speaking to (mistake #1). assumed (mistake #2) that the person on the other end was a fellow insergent even tho he probably didn't reconize the voice even tho he knew the number. and never wondered where they (fellow insurgent feeding them all this "info") were when they struck the house. after all, didn't they flee to the trees around the house?

this story reminds me of the impromptu drug bust that occured. some potheads went up to the narcs as they were wrapping up a bust on a drug house, and tried to buy drugs. they were sent to the back (by the Narc officers in UNIFORM) where they walked around police cars with flashing lights and other uniformed officers and made a purchase from the undercover officer there. when the dopeheads (and I do mean Stupid in this sense) came back to the front, they were promptly arrested. while being cuffed, another junkie came up and stated they wanted to buy some drugs also. it kept going till they arrested 18 people I believe.

Stupidity is the only Common thing between people of any faith, nationality, and even political leanings.

Yet you still can't beat them. Tells you something...

Zing.

there is a difference. for one, the insurgent who called didn't ask whom he was speaking to (mistake #1). assumed (mistake #2) that the person on the other end was a fellow insergent even tho he probably didn't reconize the voice even tho he knew the number. and never wondered where they (fellow insurgent feeding them all this "info") were when they struck the house. after all, didn't they flee to the trees around the house?

this story reminds me of the impromptu drug bust that occured. some potheads went up to the narcs as they were wrapping up a bust on a drug house, and tried to buy drugs. they were sent to the back (by the Narc officers in UNIFORM) where they walked around police cars with flashing lights and other uniformed officers and made a purchase from the undercover officer there. when the dopeheads (and I do mean Stupid in this sense) came back to the front, they were promptly arrested. while being cuffed, another junkie came up and stated they wanted to buy some drugs also. it kept going till they arrested 18 people I believe.

Stupidity is the only Common thing between people of any faith, nationality, and even political leanings.

What has that actually got to do with what I said?

Yet you still can't beat them. Tells you something...

They get killed on a daily basis. Still more pour in to replace them. Will they be defeated in the long run? I would say yes.

What has that actually got to do with what I said?
because in this case, it was basically the insurgent's stupidity that caused their downfall.

usually and I do mean usually, when an insurgent kills a soldier, most of the time it involves civilian casualties because IED's don't care, or the insurgets don't care. that's a damper for most people. this was a fire combat that was well contained and only the partcipants were in danger.

now if there was a story about a soldier finding an IED and he RADIOED it in and the IED Blewup because of the soldier's radio frequency set it off... then it might be comparable to this story because both were caused by the stupidity of the injured. (Military protocal, last I heard anyway, was that if a suspicious package was found, no radio signals are to be sent incase it triggers the device.)

Negative, Saddam violated several components of the original GFW1 cease fire.

He had it coming.
Oh god, I am really startng to hate you now. What we need in the world right now is a helluva lot less of you and a helluva lot more of people with morals.


So, whats your opinion on gobal warming? Not happening, huh? that was unpredictable.:rolleyes:

So I guess Arabic cell phones don't have audible rintones? Heck I can hear mine from across the house at night, and during the day across the living room.

Insurgents are not, by nature, smart. Who knows what they do-my goldfish (who is..named..FISH!) shows more intelligence than most of them do. It only takes so many brains to pop up behind some burnt out carcass of a car, shout allahu ackbar, and monkey-pump that AK.
Insurgents are not, by nature, smart?

Most people aren't, look at yourself for instance:rolleyes:

They get killed on a daily basis. Still more pour in to replace them. Will they be defeated in the long run? I would say yes.

Who are you describing? Coalition troops or insurgents?

Who are you describing? Coalition troops or insurgents?
Or both? :eek:

That was a rude surprise for them. Clever tactics.

Unles the group that turned up were the family that lived in the house, and the US 'cleverly' wiped out some insurgent's enemy FOR HIM.

After all, if one person on a phone believes they are duping the other... what's to say the other isn't duping right back at him?


Oh - wait... were they wearing their "Shoot Me, I'm Insurgent" badges?

Yet you still can't beat them. Tells you something...

Huh? Pardon my french, but they are getting their asses kicked/handed to them in each skirmish, and that's some serious monkey-pumping-ak-smackdown. The ING has some hardcore guys in it-and they're willing to fight.

Unles the group that turned up were the family that lived in the house, and the US 'cleverly' wiped out some insurgent's enemy FOR HIM.

After all, if one person on a phone believes they are duping the other... what's to say the other isn't duping right back at him?


Oh - wait... were they wearing their "Shoot Me, I'm Insurgent" badges?

If it was some hadjis family we'd have heard about it by now. Murtha would have been screaming from the capitol "COLD BLOOD! COLD BLOOD! COLD BLOOD!".

They got the right guys.

Insurgents are not, by nature, smart?

Most people aren't, look at yourself for instance:rolleyes:

I've never said I'm the smartest guy, but hell. I'm not going to sabotage my own country's infrastructure and attack those trying to help us.

Huh? Pardon my french, but they are getting their asses kicked/handed to them in each skirmish, and that's some serious monkey-pumping-ak-smackdown. The ING has some hardcore guys in it-and they're willing to fight.

So it'll be any day now then....

Like 3 years ago when they said that too.

Oops! Wasn't meant to mention that.

*slaps wrist*
Bad Mongoose, Bad!

A. I've seen the point about the cease fire brought up. However, there are two fallacies:

1. It wasn't a main given reason for the invasion. It was brought up incredibly second hand. If the main reason given had been that, it might have at least been credible, if not for the next point...

2. I want to know, at the time of invasion, what part of the cease fire was iraq actively breaking? Or immediatly before the invasion? The US knew iraq was breaking the ceasefire at certain times, and didn't do anything. Bush didn't even do anything until 2003; yet it was being broken during his term, before he ever mentioned iraq. He only brought it up when he wanted credibility for his invasion. So, again, what was iraq breaking actively?

A. I've seen the point about the cease fire brought up. However, there are two fallacies:

1. It wasn't a main given reason for the invasion. It was brought up incredibly second hand. If the main reason given had been that, it might have at least been credible, if not for the next point...

2. I want to know, at the time of invasion, what part of the cease fire was iraq actively breaking? Or immediatly before the invasion? The US knew iraq was breaking the ceasefire at certain times, and didn't do anything. Bush didn't even do anything until 2003; yet it was being broken during his term, before he ever mentioned iraq. He only brought it up when he wanted credibility for his invasion. So, again, what was iraq breaking actively?

Will addres your second remark due to the fact that remark one has been hashed out numerous times on NS. The Iraqi military attacked Kurds and the Shia majority on a regular basis. The Iraqi anti-aircraft batteries routinely fired on US/UK aircraft patrolling the cease fire agreed no-fly zone. Numerous incidents of running oil for other things than food. Many hands were dirty on that one. Abusing of the oil for food program that was established after the end of the gulf war.

You know the reason why the US did not attack Iraq with a land force during the Clinton years. I could make some off hand remarks but you have heard em all. The reason Bush didn't attack right away is because as you also know it takes some time to build political support. Also takes time to move an army to the theater of combat. Now with or without Sept. 11 the US was going to invade Iraq. I remember talking with fellow military buddies before Bush was elected in term 1. We all agreed that Iraq was going to be invaded. The writing was on the wall before Sept. 11. Also shall I remind you that congress under the Clinton presidency authorized a regime change in Iraq.

Will addres your second remark due to the fact that remark one has been hashed out numerous times on NS. The Iraqi military attacked Kurds and the Shia majority on a regular basis. The Iraqi anti-aircraft batteries routinely fired on US/UK aircraft patrolling the cease fire agreed no-fly zone. Numerous incidents of running oil for other things than food. Many hands were dirty on that one. Abusing of the oil for food program that was established after the end of the gulf war.

You know the reason why the US did not attack Iraq with a land force during the Clinton years. I could make some off hand remarks but you have heard em all. The reason Bush didn't attack right away is because as you also know it takes some time to build political support. Also takes time to move an army to the theater of combat. Now with or without Sept. 11 the US was going to invade Iraq. I remember talking with fellow military buddies before Bush was elected in term 1. We all agreed that Iraq was going to be invaded. The writing was on the wall before Sept. 11. Also shall I remind you that congress under the Clinton presidency authorized a regime change in Iraq.heard from a navel personnel, reports that Clinton sent in a covert team to Assassinate OBL is this true?

Also shall I remind you that congress under the Clinton presidency authorized a regime change in Iraq.

Where did they get the mandate to do that?

heard from a navel personnel, reports that Clinton sent in a covert team to Assassinate OBL is this true?

I wouldn't doubt it. I do have a few SF friends that were in at that time. They told me of alot different types of operations that took place in SE asia. Never heard of a team going into Sudan or Afghanistan prior to 9-11

Where did they get the mandate to do that?


Here it is:

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/libera.htm

Here it is:

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/libera.htm
*sits back and waits*

So I guess Arabic cell phones don't have audible rintones? Heck I can hear mine from across the house at night, and during the day across the living room.

Insurgents are not, by nature, smart. Who knows what they do-my goldfish (who is..named..FISH!) shows more intelligence than most of them do. It only takes so many brains to pop up behind some burnt out carcass of a car, shout allahu ackbar, and monkey-pump that AK.

Sorry, you lost all credibility when you said they are not smart by nature. I'm sure that Middle Eastern youth do better in schools than American youth.

Where did they get the mandate to do that?
...The United States Constitution, article 1, section 8.

*sits back and waits*


Can you hear the crickets? ;)

Sorry, you lost all credibility when you said they are not smart by nature. I'm sure that Middle Eastern youth do better in schools than American youth.


There are dumb people everywhere. Not to support his arguement but just pointing out an observation that I have made.

Can you hear the crickets? ;)
...

....

.......

yep :D

....

Course you know what I'm awaiting for....

.... *pats container of Hot Dogs and skewers.*

...

....

.......

yep :D

....

Course you know what I'm awaiting for....

.... *pats container of Hot Dogs and skewers.*

I want some ketchup and mustard on my dog. So when is those flames going to start kicking up?

I want some ketchup and mustard on my dog. So when is those flames going to start kicking up?
Ketchup... check.
Mustard... check.

Popcorn... popcorn... damn... Be right back... want me to pick up drinks also?

Ketchup... check.
Mustard... check.

Popcorn... popcorn... damn... Be right back... want me to pick up drinks also?

Got a bar full but thanks. Anyway just noticed you are in Hawaii. Will be there in 2 weeks over in Wananea or however you spell that...

Got a bar full but thanks. Anyway just noticed you are in Hawaii. Will be there in 2 weeks over in Wananea or however you spell that...
Waianae?
on Oahu?

If it was some hadjis family we'd have heard about it by now. Murtha would have been screaming from the capitol "COLD BLOOD! COLD BLOOD! COLD BLOOD!".

They got the right guys.

So - the simple fact that you haven't heard big protests means they MUST have got the right guys? I lack your faith.

U.S. Army one - Freedom fighters probably ten or so.

A one-off event doesn't really show the general actions of what has been a poorly-orchestrated war.

Dial "C" for Cock-up.

Also shall I remind you that congress under the Clinton presidency authorized a regime change in Iraq.
What does this mean? They didn't authorize use of force.

So - the simple fact that you haven't heard big protests means they MUST have got the right guys? I lack your faith.

Gee, they did find a bunch of weapons. Implications right there, and if the house is getting raided chances are they're doing SOMETHING.

U.S. Army one - Freedom fighters probably ten or so.

A one-off event doesn't really show the general actions of what has been a poorly-orchestrated war.

The entire picture shows that the USAR and USMC along with the ING are doing a great job. You should read into some of the IRaqi units-the motivation behind these guys is simply amazing.

What does this mean? They didn't authorize use of force.
you're right. only to use money to help support the democratic movement... of course if they decide to use that money to buy guns and become "FreedomFighters" *CoughterroristCough*, I really cannot see the US saying anything or stopping the money.

oh and doesn't that smack also of using money to buy their way into a foreign government?

The entire picture shows that the USAR and USMC along with the ING are doing a great job. You should read into some of the IRaqi units-the motivation behind these guys is simply amazing.
feel free to post anything. I wanna see what those guys are doing.

other than that firefight cockup a couple of weeks back.

Gee, they did find a bunch of weapons. Implications right there, and if the house is getting raided chances are they're doing SOMETHING.

Surely, they found the weapons outside the house... and I don't recall seeing anything that makes a concrete connection between the men that got shot, and the arms found... did I miss it?

*starts singing Queen's Another One Bites the Dust*

Surely, they found the weapons outside the house... and I don't recall seeing anything that makes a concrete connection between the men that got shot, and the arms found... did I miss it?
granted it is a one sided story, however, if the men shot were innocent, wouldn't there be a story already about soldiers breaking into a home and shooting innocent people?

the only connection is that the person on the phone did say they will ambush the home and then several minutes later, some armed persons stormed the house. little too convienent to be innocent persons.

granted it is a one sided story, however, if the men shot were innocent, wouldn't there be a story already about soldiers breaking into a home and shooting innocent people?

the only connection is that the person on the phone did say they will ambush the home and then several minutes later, some armed persons stormed the house. little too convienent to be innocent persons.

Thing is... I don't want to make ANY assumptions here. I certainly don't want to be deciding who was innocent and who was guilty. I'm just throwing out the possibility that this 'hero' story is one-sided, and might ACTUALLY be describing a massacre...

Thing is... I don't want to make ANY assumptions here. I certainly don't want to be deciding who was innocent and who was guilty. I'm just throwing out the possibility that this 'hero' story is one-sided, and might ACTUALLY be describing a massacre...well it was. :D

however, one telling evidence against that it was a massacre of innocents is the fact that there has been no counter story put out yet. seeing how many on this forum like to post mistakes by the Bush admin or by the US soldiers, you'd think that something would've cropped up by now.

of course, I am still looking on that but time during work, is limitied.

well it was. :D

however, one telling evidence against that it was a massacre of innocents is the fact that there has been no counter story put out yet. seeing how many on this forum like to post mistakes by the Bush admin or by the US soldiers, you'd think that something would've cropped up by now.

of course, I am still looking on that but time during work, is limitied.

I very much doubt EVERY firefight gets airtime, to be honest. If there is a reasonable claim that they THOUGHT the victims were insurgents, it might well go unmentioned. To get airtime, you really need a five-year-old girl hit by shrapnel, or fallen 'insurgents' being shot after they've surrendered.

If there is the possibility that the guys WERE a malign influence, it doesn't relly matter if they were or not.. it probably won't get discussed.

A humorous part of the war. No one's perfect though.

“I love this [expletive],” said Sgt. Nicholas Hake-Jordan, 23, of Springfield, Ore.
Yeah, you gotta love shooting fish in a barrel. For shame.

This anecdote just confirms what I've always known to be true.

theres many that will say things against the USA for this and talk bad about our troops using their heads instead of leaving and letting these insurgents plan more attacks to kill more of our troops

how i feel about the story: :D

Why? It's hardly a new idea. British snipers in Northern Ireland frequently phoned rebel-held buildings to lure the rebels over to the windows so they could shoot them.

i am fairly up on the northern conflict, and i have never ever heard of this. didnt even know the brits had snipers in ireland.

best phone story of the troubles is when the IRA tapped the british army and RUC hq's phones. literally for years.

Why? It's hardly a new idea. British snipers in Northern Ireland frequently phoned rebel-held buildings to lure the rebels over to the windows so they could shoot them.

i am fairly up on the northern conflict, and i have never ever heard of this. didnt even know the brits had snipers in ireland.

best phone story of the troubles is when the IRA tapped the british army and RUC hq's phones. literally for years.

theres many that will say things against the USA for this and talk bad about our troops using their heads instead of leaving and letting these insurgents plan more attacks to kill more of our troops

But of course, loving to kill people is a good thing!

i am fairly up on the northern conflict, and i have never ever heard of this. didnt even know the brits had snipers in ireland.

best phone story of the troubles is when the IRA tapped the british army and RUC hq's phones. literally for years.

What do you mean, don't have snipers? Of course we have (Had) snipers. I've read more than a few sniper stories/reports.

I must be missing something. Obviously you find someone dying hilarious, but I'm simply not seeing it.

I think the idea is that this clever move prevented death and injury among the US soldiers?

My team? LOL.

I love moral relativism. Every day is a victory. :D
Moral relativism is for intellectual jellyfish.

Yes, you can put that in your sig.

Insurgents are not, by nature, smart. Who knows what they do-my goldfish (who is..named..FISH!) shows more intelligence than most of them do. It only takes so many brains to pop up behind some burnt out carcass of a car, shout allahu ackbar, and monkey-pump that AK.
Not very smart? In that case, why has the Iraq war drawn on for 4 years now, and counting? Why Iraq in such a mess? If they're so dumb, why hasn't the US wiped them out yet?
It kinda implies that the forces opposing the insurgents are even dumber than they are. Is that what you were implying? Cause that's what it comes across as.

the first line is in reference to the congressman heading the investigation about troops shooting civilians in cold blood. different incident.
An incident that DesignatedMarksman seems to think is hilarious too, I might add:


[Congressman murtha] they were murdered in cold blood [congressman murtha]
:D
BWAHAhAHAHA!

Guess the idea of children being shot turns him on.

i am fairly up on the northern conflict, and i have never ever heard of this.

Similarly here. Thus my post of 'eh?' in response to it earlier.

theres many that will say things against the USA for this and talk bad about our troops using their heads instead of leaving and letting these insurgents plan more attacks to kill more of our troops

how i feel about the story: :D
How do you feel about taking leaks?

You completely miss the concept of rooting for your team, don't you?


No- now you know who he is rooting for, though.

No- now you know who he is rooting for, though.
Must be for the guy selling peanuts.

What's with the lame sports analogy, anyway...

More like I said, fish in a barrel with a shotgun.

An incident that DesignatedMarksman seems to think is hilarious too, I might add:



Guess the idea of children being shot turns him on.

The idea of dead hadjis and a safe house busted gives me a hard on.

Ooohrah.

Sorry, you lost all credibility when you said they are not smart by nature. I'm sure that Middle Eastern youth do better in schools than American youth.

Insurgent entrance exam:

Instructor:Abdul, hold that AK over your head and fire it in the beirut off hand behind the burnt out car over there. Be sure and hold it high over your head for maximum hollywood stylized weapons handling! Remember, sights are for suckas!
Abdul: BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM!
Instructor: You just wiped out half the class behind you. The bullets go the other way.
Abdul: Whoops.

US military exam

ASVAB
Crucible/Iron Forge
14 weeks basic or Boot camp
6 more weeks of MOS

Not sure about the navy or airforce...


Not very smart? In that case, why has the Iraq war drawn on for 4 years now, and counting? Why Iraq in such a mess? If they're so dumb, why hasn't the US wiped them out yet?
It kinda implies that the forces opposing the insurgents are even dumber than they are. Is that what you were implying? Cause that's what it comes across as.

Yep, not very smart. They get owned in every engagement, just as page one tells you. The average joe in the military is much brighter than the average hadji, and better motivated. It only takes so much intelligence to do what they do-how much intelligence does a suicide bomber really need? Not much apparently.

Good god. How many generalisations about Iraqi insurgents do you want to make? You surely can't believe half of what you just wrote...can you?

Insurgent entrance exam:


How do you know so much about being trained as an insurgent...?

How do you know so much about being trained as an insurgent...?

I suspect the old adage 'To fight your enemy, you must first know your enemy' is something completely alien to DM.

What do you mean, don't have snipers? Of course we have (Had) snipers. I've read more than a few sniper stories/reports.

please feel free to enlighten us? whan did the brits ever shoot an ira man sniper style?

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossmaglen
The British army has always been an unwanted presence by most of the local population. During the Troubles, at least 58 police officers and 124 soldiers were killed by the Provisional IRA in South Armagh, many in Crossmaglen itself. It was here that a team of snipers killed 12 members of the security forces in the 1990s

please feel free to enlighten us? whan did the brits ever shoot an ira man sniper style?

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossmaglen
The British army has always been an unwanted presence by most of the local population. During the Troubles, at least 58 police officers and 124 soldiers were killed by the Provisional IRA in South Armagh, many in Crossmaglen itself. It was here that a team of snipers killed 12 members of the security forces in the 1990s

Just using Google, this comes up, for example:

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=576ae39e124b7a45

This chap seems to a British sniper who operated in Ireland, and credited with several kills, even if he is dead. That enough evidence?

EDIT: Whilst biased, this report also mentions the use of British snipers in Ireland: http://www.relativesforjustice.com/victims/john_dougal.htm

Good god. How many generalisations about Iraqi insurgents do you want to make? You surely can't believe half of what you just wrote...can you?
"Sweeping Generalizations-day" was yesterday... He's just the last person to leave the party. Someone has to turn out the lights and clean up you know ;)

How do you feel about taking leaks?

you gotta go when you gotta go

how can anyone be against taking leaks, you have to take a piss some time

you gotta go when you gotta go

how can anyone be against taking leaks, you have to take a piss some time
How can you use that name when you don't even know what Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. had to say about taking a leak?

How can you use that name when you don't even know what Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. had to say about taking a leak?

i read the book, the book was on my comp table when choosing a name, the name sounded better then other options. i took it

i dont really like vonnegut. he is rather senile, and even if i did like him, do i have to agree and remember all of his quotes because i have the name of one of his books for a name?

i read the book, the book was on my comp table when choosing a name, the name sounded better then other options. i took it

i dont really like vonnegut. he is rather senile, and even if i did like him, do i have to agree and remember all of his quotes because i have the name of one of his books for a name?
Sorry, I just think it's monumentally stupid to take the name of an incredibly important 20th-century American anti-war novel when you hold the author of said novel in obvious contempt.

And no, you don't have to agree with or remember anything because you've filched the name of one of his better books, you should want to because it's actually really very clever and amusing.

But don't worry about any of that. I'm sure you just thought it sounded cool and was suitably obscure that nobody would call you on being somewhere close to being the antithesis of Mr. Vonnegut.

...And it means 'to steal a mirror', just FYI.

Sorry, I just think it's monumentally stupid to take the name of an incredibly important 20th-century American anti-war novel when you hold the author of said novel in obvious contempt.

And no, you don't have to agree with or remember anything because you've filched the name of one of his better books, you should want to because it's actually really very clever and amusing.

But don't worry about any of that. I'm sure you just thought it sounded cool and was suitably obscure that nobody would call you on being somewhere close to being the antithesis of Mr. Vonnegut.

woah there buddy

are you vonnegut?
or just get pissed off at critics at him?

or maybe just people that dont agree with him?

wow and people complain about christians getting pissed from critics saying something about jesus.

woah there buddy

are you vonnegut?
or just get pissed off at critics at him?

or maybe just people that dont agree with him?

wow and people complain about christians getting pissed from critics saying something about jesus.
Come off it. If I disliked the works of Harlan Ellison, would I go out of my way to call myself 'Demon With A Glass Hand', or 'Qarlo Clobregny'? If I thought Isaac Asimov was dull, would I call myself 'Second Foundation' or 'Giskard'?

You're as superficial and shallow as your posts make you out to be, fella.

And maybe - just maybe - I happen to think Slaughterhouse Five is important enough a piece of literature that it ought not be confused with some poster on an Internet forum.

So it goes.

Come off it. If I disliked the works of Harlan Ellison, would I go out of my way to call myself 'Demon With A Glass Hand', or 'Qarlo Clobregny'? If I thought Isaac Asimov was dull, would I call myself 'Second Foundation' or 'Giskard'?

You're as superficial and shallow as your posts make you out to be, fella.

And maybe - just maybe - I happen to think Slaughterhouse Five is important enough a piece of literature that it ought not be confused with some poster on an Internet forum.

So it goes.

you really think people will be talking about slaughterhouse five and someone says "oh, you mean that guy on the NS general forum"

lmao, didnt know you thought so highly of me

i didnt choose the name because of the dislike of vonnegut. i thought the book "slaughterhouse five" was decent (not as great as you make it seem) and it was a much better name then my other suggestions (as previously posted)

ps. this may or may not be my original nation. could just be a psuedonation where i reflect an alternate ego.

That's not what he's saying. When your home nation is at war with another nation, wouldn't you be supporting your army, whether it be with working on the homefront, or joining the army yourself. Unless you're a submissive pussy that doesn't mind being conquered and having your sovereign nation taken away from you.

The only case I could see where you support the opposing army is if you live in an oppressive regime.

That's crapola. We had a better chance of being conquered, or even invaded by the French. This war is no more about protecting the fatherland than Hitler invading the Sudetenland. So no, when the criminals who happen to be running my country invade another country, I don't root for the home team. I just hope they get home safe and that the people that sent them find themselves on foreign sand dodging IEDs.

Also if some country invades the US, I hope I am one of those people blowing the shit out of their soldiers. Cutting the heads off of some of their oil profiteers too.

In his eyes every US guy is a bad guy.
Bull. Just because someone argues against you doesn't mean they're against America. I don't think you're against America. You're just wrong.

So was Benedict Arnold. An officer who served with disinction and then turned around and betrayed everything he stood for.
Perhaps a meaningful argument if Murtha had slunk into the Iraqi camp to give them secret information on troop movements. This is more like Benedict Arnold if he was trying to convince Washington that starting a war with the French was a stupid idea. If he'd done that Benedict Arnold would have remained a hero.

YAHOO!!! End terrorism, support our troops. HAHAHAHA DIE YOU TERRORIST SCUM-BAGS!!!!:mp5: HAHAHA!!! EVIL TAKES ANOTHER DEFEAT!!!:D

USA! USA! USA! USA ! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

"Oh say can you see..."

God bless America!

Okay
:rolleyes:

I think you and others that think like you miss the point sometimes. Someone dying is not hilarious. But in a combat zone it is either kill or be killed. These insurgents would not hesitate to kill the US soldiers if given the chance. This is why this is a nice little score for our troops. I would rather see an insurgent in a body bag than a US soldier.

You second point is absolutely invalid in this arguement. Although it does show your mindset. All I can say is don't be stupid.

Yeah, and if the soldiers were back in America defending their country, as opposed to invading another, this wouldn't be an issue. Total deaths in America due to terrorism in 2001, fewer than the number of traffic fatalities. Dear god, we should have equipment in each car to assure they never exceed 20 mph.:rolleyes:

They get killed on a daily basis. Still more pour in to replace them. Will they be defeated in the long run? I would say yes.

Probably the same way they were defeated in Vietnam. Once their flag is flying over the palace, no more insurgency.

you really think people will be talking about slaughterhouse five and someone says "oh, you mean that guy on the NS general forum"

lmao, didnt know you thought so highly of me

i didnt choose the name because of the dislike of vonnegut. i thought the book "slaughterhouse five" was decent (not as great as you make it seem) and it was a much better name then my other suggestions (as previously posted)

ps. this may or may not be my original nation. could just be a psuedonation where i reflect an alternate ego.

Courage. Is. A beautiful thing.

The idea of dead hadjis and a safe house busted gives me a hard on.

Do you think all hadjis should meet the same fate?

EDIT: I omitted the word 'you'.

Courage. Is. A beautiful thing.
What, the courage to be uninformed and tragically, not-quite ironically (self) mis-named? Please. It takes more courage to get out of bed in the morning...

What's so funny about killing people?

What's so funny about killing people?
read the Darwin awards.

then re read the story.

read the Darwin awards.

then re read the story.

Would it have been as funny if a yank got tricked and killed by iraqis?

Would it have been as funny if a yank got tricked and killed by iraqis?
Read the Darwin Awards. ;)

Read the Darwin Awards. ;)

I've read them... Dying from eating thumb-tacks while doing a barrel roll in a hot-air balloon is different from being shot by someone.

I've read them... Dying from eating thumb-tacks while doing a barrel roll in a hot-air balloon is different from being shot by someone.
now ask yourself this question.

What if the Iraqi on the other end of the line simply asked "Who is this?"