NationStates Jolt Archive

We have nukes in North Korea, a program to develope them in Iran. Nukes in Pakistan and India. A war in Iraq. World oil may be about to peak and the world as a whole way behind the curve in dealing with it. Alliances fracturing. New diseases eminating from the world's rainforests. We're facing shortages in almost every basic resource humans rely upon, water, food, platinum, concrete... The world is warming much faster than was expected and we show no signs of abating our use of fossil fuels and even if teh west did, China looks to dwarf the CO2 output of Europe and North America combined within just the next couple decades.

It seems we are at a tipping point and the only country in the world with the economic, military and political clout to lead the kind of united effort necessary to attack these problems is lead by a complete moron who has probably already done irreparable damage to that clout. Our military is bogged down in a useless war in Iraq when just the threat of military force was clearly enough. Now Iran and North Korea can thumb their noses at us because they know that even if we do still have enough military muscle to deal with those threats, we have lost legitimacy for any military intervention on the world stage and completely sapped the political will to do anything at home. Our overly inflated economy, grown on the back of consumer debt spending based on an unsustainable housing boom, is probably about to go through a major, very painful correction as people suddently find themselves with two or three mortgages they took on their $300,000 homes that they took out when those homes were worth $700,000. It's tragic. Where are the Trumans and the Eisenhowers. This president will be the pivotal figure and will be remembered as the most tragic of mistakes as the world awakes from the oil party with a major hangover that will last the rest of our lives. I'm so glad I can truthfully say that I never voted for him and have been screaming about how stupid he is since his presidential campaign in 2000. We're in big trouble. Not just the US, but the world. If we had the kind of leadership necessary in this time the US could have been the lynchpin around which real solutions to our shared problems could have been formed. Instead we get easily the most incompetent, idiotic, stupid leader in the history of our country.

Sorry. Everyonce in a while I get hit with the enormity of the problems we face and I host a pity party. :(

I don't see what the problem is. I mean, you did all that. So it's not an injustice or anything.

Good grief, an American who actually realises the hole that their economy is in.

Kudos and sympathy.

I don't see what the problem is. I mean, you did all that. So it's not an injustice or anything.
The cause, the reasons, the history behind it doesn't change the current condition nor my ability to lament it. I personally may not have spilt the milk, but that doesn't mean I don't see it on the floor.

I personally may not have spilt the milk, but that doesn't mean I don't see it on the floor.
Then stand back and watch the fat kid slip on it. :D

Munch on a cookie to boot.

Good grief, an American who actually realises the hole that their economy is in.

Alot of us realize it, asshole.

I don't see what the problem is. I mean, you did all that. So it's not an injustice or anything.
I might also point out that Europe, and especially the UK, are in similar straights. The big difference is that the US has the current military and economic clout to actually do something about these problems on a world scale and instead we just got stoned on our grandkids' credit cards.

Alot of us realize it, asshole.
Jeez, you remind me of Christofi. :rolleyes:

On the plus side, if the economy does go into the plunge it's looking like it might, and we get spiraling inflation along with all the other crap, my student loans will wind up being about two weeks salary, as opposed to the 1/4 of a south Florida condo they are right now.

Then the only problem will be finding a job.

Jeez, you remind me of Christofi. :rolleyes:
Christofi was never that witty.

Then stand back and watch the fat kid slip on it. :D

Munch on a cookie to boot.
That's the plan. Thus, my starting back at school in June to get a relevent degree, much like yours, to the impending crises. I fully expect to get hired away from the US. Hopefully somewhere in the southern hemisphere.

Alot of us realize it, asshole.

Thank you for the epithet. A lot of you posting here, deny it.

[/QUOTE]The world is warming much faster than was expected and we show no signs of abating our use of fossil fuels and even if teh west did, China looks to dwarf the CO2 output of Europe and North America combined within just the next couple decades.[/QUOTE]

Global Warming my @ss, try comparing sunspot cycles with max vs min temperatures for the last couple hundred years. Not to mention that one active volcano produces more CO2 annually than the human race has produced EVER...try researching crap before you spout media food back at us please :sniper:

2012 baby, 2012.

Move to europe. Let us and our allies fight our wars. MOVE!

:headbang:

Global Warming my @ss.....try researching crap before you spout media food back at us please

I'm so glad that in Europe, global warming is an accepted fact.

Global Warming my @ss, try comparing sunspot cycles with max vs min temperatures for the last couple hundred years. Not to mention that one active volcano produces more CO2 annually than the human race has produced EVER...try researching crap before you spout media food back at us please :sniper:

Wow you're stupid!

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

Carbon dioxide (CO2)

Volcanoes release more than 130 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere every year. This colorless, odorless gas usually does not pose a direct hazard to life because it typically becomes diluted to low concentrations very quickly whether it is released continuously from the ground or during episodic eruptions. But in certain circumstances, CO2 may become concentrated at levels lethal to people and animals. Carbon dioxide gas is heavier than air and the gas can flow into in low-lying areas; breathing air with more than 30% CO2 can quickly induce unconsciousness and cause death. In volcanic or other areas where CO2 emissions occur, it is important to avoid small depressions and low areas that might be CO2 traps. The boundary between air and lethal gas can be extremely sharp; even a single step upslope may be adequate to escape death.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/tableh1co2.xls

Emissions for humans (2003) world total :
25162.0658869801 million metric tons.

Good grief, an American who actually realises the hole that their economy is in.

Kudos and sympathy.

No! Our economy is great! FOX news tells me so! ;)

No! Our economy is great! FOX news tells me so! ;)


Well most media says it is, the stock market is up massively over a year ago. It just doesn't feel like the economy is going anywhere, more like it's just waiting to implode.

Well most media says it is, the stock market is up massively over a year ago. It just doesn't feel like the economy is going anywhere, more like it's just waiting to implode.

One thing that bothers me is, our "great" economy seems to built on debt. Consumers rush to the stores to buy all sorts of "kewl" toys with their credit cards. Homeowners take out 40 year mortgages for houses that cost close to a million! Sooner or later, it's going to implode. That kind of debt isn't sustainable.

Wow you're stupid!

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html



http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/tableh1co2.xls

Emissions for humans (2003) world total :
25162.0658869801 million metric tons.
What a stuipid thing to do. First you say volcanoes release 130 million tones of CO2 a year. Then you try to say humans aren't a problem in comparison because they only release 25 billion, 162 million last year. That's only 193 times as much.

Take a look at your own shit before you post it. The chart you posted is annual CO2 production, not cumulative over time.

The fact is that the level of CO2 in the atmosphere has been rising steadily since teh industrial revolution. Volcanic activity is background. Burniing fossil fuels is new CO2. It's like you've got a spigot with a gallon of water per minute gushing out into yoru backyard. maybe that doesn't flood it, but add another spigot and you have a problem.

There is no, and I mean, NO credible dissent in the scientific community about global warming. None.


*** this shoudl be adressed to Jetronia, not Khadgar.***

Move to europe. Let us and our allies fight our wars. MOVE!

:headbang:
What allies? We're losing them left and right.

Did you even read my post?
Oppps... My apologies

I saw the name in the quote box and fucked up. That's for the other guy.

Sorry about that. :)

The world is warming much faster than was expected and we show no signs of abating our use of fossil fuels and even if teh west did, China looks to dwarf the CO2 output of Europe and North America combined within just the next couple decades.[/QUOTE]

Global Warming my @ss, try comparing sunspot cycles with max vs min temperatures for the last couple hundred years. Not to mention that one active volcano produces more CO2 annually than the human race has produced EVER...try researching crap before you spout media food back at us please :sniper:[/QUOTE]

No problem.

http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/co2/graphics/vostok.co2.gif

We have reached our cyclical thermal maximum. We should be cooling.

No! Our economy is great! FOX news tells me so! ;)

Yeah... for one, Fox is completely biased towards the 'Bush supporters.'

And second, I'm kinda tired of people saying because of Bush's major mistakes, all Americans are to blame. I didn't vote for him and neither did half of the population. From what I've heard it's mostly the fault of the electoral college. The polls were close and the E.C. likes to smudge the votes... and they leaned toward Bush... Of course, I'm not claiming that to be fact either.

...just putting it out there.

I can't wait until he's out of office. CAN'T WAIT!!


Also, off the subject. Why did we get rid of Clinton for some lame sex scandal but we don't chuck Bush out for huge mess he's made? Grrr...

:headbang:

Well most media says it is, the stock market is up massively over a year ago. It just doesn't feel like the economy is going anywhere, more like it's just waiting to implode.The problem with saying things like "the economy is strong" or "the economy is weak" is that those statements are too simplistic. Even in what most economists call a bad economy, someone's making out like a bandit. So too today--corporate profits are generally up, but wages are stagnant. So for people in the investment part of the economy, the economy is strong. For the guy working two jobs to keep food on his family (heh), the economy sucks. Since there are considerably more of the latter, the polls keep showing that most people don't believe the economy is strong.

Well for most people it ain't.

Also, off the subject. Why did we get rid of Clinton for some lame sex scandal but we don't chuck Bush out for huge mess he's made? Grrr...

:headbang:
Straight up with the rest of yoru post, but Clinton's impeachment failed. We didn't get rid fo him. Also, unfortunately, it is a felony and a federal offense to lie to Congress but not to the American people. Clinton lied to Congress - I did not have sexual relations with that woman - Bush has been able to avoid having to do that - at least to where it's provable.

Straight up with the rest of yoru post, but Clinton's impeachment failed. We didn't get rid fo him. Also, unfortunately, it is a felony and a federal offense to lie to Congress but not to the American people. Clinton lied to Congress - I did not have sexual relations with that woman - Bush has been able to avoid having to do that - at least to where it's provable.
Actually, his "lie" was in grand jury testimony, not to Congress if memory serves, and it was more of an extreme parsing than anything else. The intent was to cover over his personal conduct, so it can be argued that it was intended as a lie. Regardless, it was over a personal matter as opposed to matters of policy.

As far as Bush is concerned, he's lied to the people so many times it's gotten ridiculous. He's just never done it under oath because he's never been required to take one. Ah, the blessings of having an opposition party with subpoena power.

Bush has very bluntly refused to testify before anyone under oath. He learned from ol' Slick Willy that it's not wise.

My main problem with Clinton is that he thought he was above the law. Yes, it was over a personal matter, but if I lied to a grad jury, I'd be in jail.

And before you say anything, I'm also pissed off at Bush for the same reason (among others).

My main problem with Clinton is that he thought he was above the law. Yes, it was over a personal matter, but if I lied to a grad jury, I'd be in jail.

And before you say anything, I'm also pissed off at Bush for the same reason (among others).

Seems to be common among presidents. Nixon apparently believed that anything he wanted done was legal cause he said it was. No proof, but I have always felt that Johnson was the same way. Lincoln was similar, as was Adams.

We have nukes in North Korea, a program to develope them in Iran. Nukes in Pakistan and India. A war in Iraq. World oil may be about to peak and the world as a whole way behind the curve in dealing with it. Alliances fracturing. New diseases eminating from the world's rainforests. We're facing shortages in almost every basic resource humans rely upon, water, food, platinum, concrete... The world is warming much faster than was expected and we show no signs of abating our use of fossil fuels and even if teh west did, China looks to dwarf the CO2 output of Europe and North America combined within just the next couple decades.

It seems we are at a tipping point and the only country in the world with the economic, military and political clout to lead the kind of united effort necessary to attack these problems is lead by a complete moron who has probably already done irreparable damage to that clout. Our military is bogged down in a useless war in Iraq when just the threat of military force was clearly enough. Now Iran and North Korea can thumb their noses at us because they know that even if we do still have enough military muscle to deal with those threats, we have lost legitimacy for any military intervention on the world stage and completely sapped the political will to do anything at home. Our overly inflated economy, grown on the back of consumer debt spending based on an unsustainable housing boom, is probably about to go through a major, very painful correction as people suddently find themselves with two or three mortgages they took on their $300,000 homes that they took out when those homes were worth $700,000. It's tragic. Where are the Trumans and the Eisenhowers. This president will be the pivotal figure and will be remembered as the most tragic of mistakes as the world awakes from the oil party with a major hangover that will last the rest of our lives. I'm so glad I can truthfully say that I never voted for him and have been screaming about how stupid he is since his presidential campaign in 2000. We're in big trouble. Not just the US, but the world. If we had the kind of leadership necessary in this time the US could have been the lynchpin around which real solutions to our shared problems could have been formed. Instead we get easily the most incompetent, idiotic, stupid leader in the history of our country.

Exactly! That's why I'm in favor of a violent overthrow of the corrupt democratic system! Democracy has failed, it's time to try something else - how about a military dictatorship!

If Memory Serves:
"Democracy is the worst system... except for all the others" - Winston Churchill

The problem with saying things like "the economy is strong" or "the economy is weak" is that those statements are too simplistic. Even in what most economists call a bad economy, someone's making out like a bandit. So too today--corporate profits are generally up, but wages are stagnant. So for people in the investment part of the economy, the economy is strong. For the guy working two jobs to keep food on his family (heh), the economy sucks. Since there are considerably more of the latter, the polls keep showing that most people don't believe the economy is strong.

That's true, and it's reflected perfectly in the current situation with gas prices. In the 1980's and late 1990's, the price of oil plunged and hundreds of thousands of people in the oil and gas industries lost their jobs and many people had their retirements obliterated by the crash in oil stocks. That $1 gas was great for consumers but there were many people, even equally as many, that were hurt by those plunges. Housing is the same way; soaring house values are great for people who own their homes and can use the equity, but the poor and renters are screwed as areas gentrify or appreciate out of control. New home buyers are also hurt, as are the young who lack the income necessary to pay the rise in rent.

This really outlines a major component of world history; people and nations that are unable to adapt to changes and who do not make wise decisions (like our decision to fund our economy on debt) will have to pay the price for those decisions, and will bring down those who cannot adapt with them. The people who do make the right decisions do very well and emerge as dominant, be it economically, socially, politically, culturally, or whatever.

Will the US fail as a whole? Probably not, but there will be areas seriously and possibly permanently affected by economic change; the markets that are prepared will succeed and thrive, and those that are not will fail and decline.
Always remember that California boomed during the Great Depression, and that played a major role in its emergence as the most economically powerful state in the US. At the same time, however, industrial New England was plunged in to decline and lost its industrial base and population dominance.

In our current situation, the places in the US that will thrive will be those that either possess fossil fuels or take steps to pursue alternatives to fossil fuels and who are committed to high-tech, high education services and manufacturing. States like Florida, Texas, California, Washington, Virginia and New York will thrive due to their adaptation to economic change and/or environmental responsibility; states like Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, and the New England region will likely decline due to their inability to adapt in the same way. The market always produces changes that return it to equilibrium but those changes are neither guaranteed to be pleasant, quick, or easy and can be very painful. We're already seeing the states whose governments pursue policies favorable to the future economy do well while those whose governments don't pursue them or resist economic change are sliding in to stagnation... if not decline in a few years.

snip
Have you read Kevin Phillips' American Theocracy yet? I'm working my way through it (along with the half dozen other books I'm reading at the moment) and he talks about pretty much the exact same thing at the beginning of the book.

Exactly! That's why I'm in favor of a violent overthrow of the corrupt democratic system! Democracy has failed, it's time to try something else - how about a military dictatorship!

If Memory Serves:
"Democracy is the worst system... except for all the others" - Winston Churchill
Exactly. Thanks. I tried to be clearer, but you seem to be the only one taht understands that what I mean by that post was that we shoudl violently overthrow the government. Don't know why I couldn't find those words because that's clearly what I was trying to say. :)

Have you read Kevin Phillips' American Theocracy yet? I'm working my way through it (along with the half dozen other books I'm reading at the moment) and he talks about pretty much the exact same thing at the beginning of the book.

No, I haven't but I'll definitely take a look at it if that issue is discussed in it.

No, I haven't but I'll definitely take a look at it if that issue is discussed in it.
Yeah, it was marketed as a book about the rise of the religious right, but it's very closely tied into energy policy and financial services--he draws some amazing parallels between the current US situation and the fall of the British and Dutch empires.

[snip] Clinton lied to Congress - I did not have sexual relations with that woman - Bush has been able to avoid having to do that - at least to where it's provable.
Sorry, I didn't realise that that women even wanted to have sexual relations with Bush. :eek:

Sorry, I didn't realise that that women even wanted to have sexual relations with Bush. :eek:
Again. I said PROVABLE. She has been seen leaving the White House on a number of occasions with her clothes all rumpled and her hair messed up and with a cigar shoved up her... nvrmnd...

In anycase, Bush has been able to avoid lying about it because when they ask about Monica he says, "Smoke the evildoers from their evil holes you're with or against the evildoers in their smoke holes with evil smoke on the hole doers guest workers Americans won't evildo smokers."

We have nukes in North Korea, a program to develope them in Iran. Nukes in Pakistan and India. A war in Iraq. World oil may be about to peak and the world as a whole way behind the curve in dealing with it. Alliances fracturing. New diseases eminating from the world's rainforests. We're facing shortages in almost every basic resource humans rely upon, water, food, platinum, concrete... The world is warming much faster than was expected and we show no signs of abating our use of fossil fuels and even if teh west did, China looks to dwarf the CO2 output of Europe and North America combined within just the next couple decades.

It seems we are at a tipping point and the only country in the world with the economic, military and political clout to lead the kind of united effort necessary to attack these problems is lead by a complete moron who has probably already done irreparable damage to that clout. Our military is bogged down in a useless war in Iraq when just the threat of military force was clearly enough. Now Iran and North Korea can thumb their noses at us because they know that even if we do still have enough military muscle to deal with those threats, we have lost legitimacy for any military intervention on the world stage and completely sapped the political will to do anything at home. Our overly inflated economy, grown on the back of consumer debt spending based on an unsustainable housing boom, is probably about to go through a major, very painful correction as people suddently find themselves with two or three mortgages they took on their $300,000 homes that they took out when those homes were worth $700,000. It's tragic. Where are the Trumans and the Eisenhowers. This president will be the pivotal figure and will be remembered as the most tragic of mistakes as the world awakes from the oil party with a major hangover that will last the rest of our lives. I'm so glad I can truthfully say that I never voted for him and have been screaming about how stupid he is since his presidential campaign in 2000. We're in big trouble. Not just the US, but the world. If we had the kind of leadership necessary in this time the US could have been the lynchpin around which real solutions to our shared problems could have been formed. Instead we get easily the most incompetent, idiotic, stupid leader in the history of our country.

Humanity has problems. Always had. always will. On the plus side at least we have still have cheese in a spray can.

Humanity has problems. Always had. always will. On the plus side at least we have still have cheese in a spray can.
While there's no questioning the importance of sprayable cheese and it's place at the pinnacle of human accomplishment, I fear that even spray cheese is inadequate to relieve the coming problems we face. :(

Global warming, nuclear war, massive diseases, cultural instabilities...

I say we should all grab the next route to Antarctica.

Wrap up, folks.

While there's no questioning the importance of sprayable cheese and it's place at the pinnacle of human accomplishment, I fear that even spray cheese is inadequate to relieve the coming problems we face. :(

I think this one's going to have to be solved with silicon and steel rather than Cheese Whiz...although it doesn't get much better than spray cheese and Town House crackers, I must admit.