NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/19/gitmo.clash.ap/index.html

Anyone else think maybe something might be just slightly amiss?

Good question. They don't have any other way to strike back and get their 72 virgins, so they're probably figuring that it's not worth living anymore.

You're making a mess of completely unfounded assumptions there DK. Though I'm rather used to that from you.

You're making a mess of completely unfounded assumptions there DK. Though I'm rather used to that from you.
And you have a lot of unfounded assumptions as well.

The majority of people who were brought to gitmo have been released.

So, although the process of weeding out "who is bad" and "who is ok to let go" is not perfect, at least an attempt has been made

This implies that most, but perhaps not all, of the remaining inmates are no longer innocents.

I would add that the International Red Cross has a permanent staff on location with unfettered access to the inmates - this has been true for a couple of years now.

So, tell me, what assumption are you making?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/19/gitmo.clash.ap/index.html

Anyone else think maybe something might be just slightly amiss?
Yes. Obviously security isn't tight enough. They need to be in straightjackets 24 hours a day and confined separately in completely empty cells. No toothbrush, no pencils, no paper, nothing. That way they can't hurt themselves.

4 attempts and how many successes?

Suicide training just isnt what it used to be back in the day.

They've got fans and light fixtures so they must have electricity.

They ought to poke a paperclip into each index finger, plug themselves in, and try electrocution next time. There just isnt any imagination out there these days

And you have a lot of unfounded assumptions as well.

The majority of people who were brought to gitmo have been released.

So, although the process of weeding out "who is bad" and "who is ok to let go" is not perfect, at least an attempt has been made

This implies that most, but perhaps not all, of the remaining inmates are no longer innocents.

I would add that the International Red Cross has a permanent staff on location with unfettered access to the inmates - this has been true for a couple of years now.

So, tell me, what assumption are you making?


http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11353


Musa said it also raised more questions about whether “ghost detainees”, who are kept off books, denied of their legal rights and deprived of contact with the International Committee of the Red Cross, have been detained there.

I listened to an NPR story where they talked with the IRC representative on site, and the NPR people were present at an interrogation session. The International Red Cross has a permanent presence there.

Al-jazeera is full of shit, compared to NPR.

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11353

Originally Posted by aljazeera.com
Musa said it also raised more questions about whether “ghost detainees”, who are kept off books, denied of their legal rights and deprived of contact with the International Committee of the Red Cross, have been detained there.




Yes aljazeera says it, it must be true.

What does the Red Cross say?

And ghost detainees are now making the news for their unified suicide attempts? Rather than being covered up? Wow they were hidden before and suddenly through a semi-mass suicide cry for attention they made the limelight. This seems like irrational theory at best.

Seems more likely that 4 suicide attempts in one day would happen because somebody told them to do so as a way of seeking attention. Its not like it would be the first time this has happened. Its generally a hobby with them, only they usually try to kill a passel of infidels when they suicide. Too bad they didnt pay closer attention when their suicide teachers showed them how it's done.

So...why DON'T they let prisoners kill themselves? You know, anywhere. Seems like it would save the taxpayers some money.

Yes aljazeera says it, it must be true.

What does the Red Cross say?

The red cross has the most horrifyingly bad website I've ever seen.


Searching through it is irratating. I'll try to dig something relevant up but their articles on gitmo are sparse.

Actually the articles are quite prevalent, the ICRC's website just really really sucks.

http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList488/42BCD4D3BEB459ABC1256E51003EAF49

Searching through it is irratating. I'll try to dig something relevant up but their articles on gitmo are sparse.

Here you go. (http://www.elitestv.com/pub/2004/Nov/EEN41ac7f345ce88.html)

Here's another. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3179858.stm)

Remember, the Red Cross apparantly has a permanent presence there, so they know what they're talking about.

It's a catch 22.


You have rights regarding what you do to yourself when you are lucid and sane.
If you are suicidal you are insane and must be protected from yourself.


Also cleaning staffs worldwide almost unanimously agree they hate cleaning up after suicides. Think of the janitors please.

Here you go. (http://www.elitestv.com/pub/2004/Nov/EEN41ac7f345ce88.html)

Here's another. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3179858.stm)

Remember, the Red Cross apparantly has a permanent presence there, so they know what they're talking about.

From the two articles

"According to the Red Cross, however, the U.S. was attempting to break the will of prisoners by using 'humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, use of forced positions.' The report continued, 'The construction of such a system, whose stated purpose is the production of intelligence, cannot be considered other than an intentional system of cruel, unusual and degrading treatment and a form of torture."

And

"Mr Girod is leading a team from the ICRC which has just completed an inspection tour of the detention camp in Cuba.

Although he did not criticise any physical conditions at the camp, he said that it was intolerable that the complex was used as "an investigation centre, not a detention centre". "


Oddly different.

All I know is these Guantanamo radical Islamic prisoners would chop our heads off for any reasons in the name of Allah, and not care about our human rights.

Thier treatment of prisoners would be much worse if it were the other way around.

I know an Islamic Arab born American immigrant personally, who felt great shame for 9-11, I let him know I dont hold all his people responsible just the radical Islamics.

I know an Islamic Iranian born American immigrant personally, very pro American, I let him know the same.

Just as an interesting aside, the Red Cross is currently trying to determine what exactly to report publicly and what to keep private in regards to prison conditions, especially in regards to US prisons.

The ICRC’s contacts with detaining authorities came under intense scrutiny following publication in the media in May 2004 of a confidential ICRC report on Abu Ghraib prison. Published without the organization’s consent, the report addressed problems such as those shown in released photos that had shocked world opinion. While some critics accused the ICRC of deliberately leaking the report to harm the United
States, others considered its public silence about what it had seen at Abu Ghraib as evidence of collusion with the most powerful nation on earth and one which also happens to be the ICRC’s biggest donor.

Abu Ghraib illustrates the dilemma the ICRC faces in its relationship with detaining authorities. On the one hand, engaging in confidential dialogue rather than public condemnation facilitate ICRC access to places of detention and can undoubtedly increase the likelihood of governments tackling problems in their prisons because they won’t have to admit publicly to their failings. On the other hand, they may simply ignore the ICRC’s reports but pretend that the organization’s public silence represents a stamp of approval for their detention system. There are no easy solutions here. Taking a more muscular stance towards detaining authorities may result in their blocking ICRC contacts with detainees especially where they are under no legal obligation to grant access. Conversely, if the ICRC is perceived as acting too meekly towards the detaining authorities, this raises serious doubts about the organization’s independence and neutrality.



http://www.redcross.int/EN/mag/magazine2006_1/4-9.html

Suicide attempts amongst religious extremists who have been imprisoned are not uncommon.

All I know is these Guantanamo radical Islamic prisoners would shop our heads off for any reasons in the name of Allah, and not care about our human rights.

Thier treatment of prisoners would be much worse if it were the other way around.



How you imagine you'd get treated in their hands is immaterial.

Are you decent human beings prepared to accord basic dignity to other human beings or are you not?

Yes. Obviously security isn't tight enough. They need to be in straightjackets 24 hours a day and confined separately in completely empty cells. No toothbrush, no pencils, no paper, nothing. That way they can't hurt themselves.

I thought you were cool. heh. You make me sick.

How you imagine you'd get treated in their hands is immaterial.

Are you decent human beings prepared to accord basic dignity to other human beings or are you not?



I thought you were cool. heh. You make me sick.

They aren't decent human beings. First mistake.

We're not even torturing them. Think kid-gloved interrogations. If we really wanted to mess them up and makem talk you could let some of the saudi or egyptians have at them, or let the delta guys workem over.

What does the Red Cross say? Very little. Why? Because if they complain too much they risk loosing access to the detainees.

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3179858.stm
In exchange for access, the committee has agreed to take any initial complaints directly to Washington. It publicises its views only when it feels they are not being heeded.

In this instance, the ICRC says it has been urging the White House for months to make significant changes in Guantanamo.

All I know is these Guantanamo radical Islamic prisoners would shop our heads off for any reasons in the name of Allah, and not care about our human rights.
Like Paris Hilton! :eek:

Though seriously, the problem is that you do not know this!

They aren't decent human beings. First mistake.
And how do you know this? Have you been there? Are you one of them?? :eek:

Oh, wait, it's the government that says so, so it must be true. :rolleyes:

<snip>

I thought you were cool. heh. You make me sick.
What? I was just looking out for the safety of the prisoners.

I don't understand what significance the Red Cross presence has. Is that supposed to suggest that things are okay dispite suicide attempts?