NationStates Jolt Archive

(This may be very jumbled, I haven’t really read over it)

What an abstract theory. How can one believe and want and live their life counting on a Heaven that relates to your individual experience of life? Relationships you've formed with people throughout your life will and will have had many aspects of happiness, but there'll be many instances of unhappiness with these people. Arguments, unfaithfulness, people acting against you. People you trust in this life.

Heaven, if you are actually 'yourself' in Heaven, who's to say these occurrences will not be reoccurring? These people you've spent your life with and love, will be there. If there's a personalised aspect to Heaven, for example, you're you and the person you love are they, and communication is possible, who's to say arguments will not arise in Heaven? If you're not you, and Heaven is some kind of spiritual place, then how can your deeds in the flesh affect a Heaven. Soul compared to Mind and Body are very separate entities, being 'evil' relates to the Mind. Your Mind relates to personalisation. Therefor heaven would have to be somewhat personalised to your life experiences.

You'd still have to be or hold some memory of the life you lived in flesh. A person who has lived a happy fulfilling life and has payed no mind to religion and has no idea of Heaven is unworthy of it? What faith will a very religious person have when in Heaven?

Being at the side of God in Heaven is what you've lived your whole life dedicated to? Will someone have to worship God when in Heaven? A person's theories and beliefs in religion and afterlife are totally dependent on your life in flesh.

And besides, who wants to live in an eternal afterlife with a bunch of suck-ups?

I don't believe it. Discuss this, I find it very interesting, please post your opinions.

Heaven has a beer volcano. Get in there with the FSM, and these questions will just vanish, I gurantee

I reckon that's why Heaven is the most exclusive club in the Universe.
8 out of 10 need not apply.

(This may be very jumbled, I haven’t really read over it)

What an abstract theory. How can one believe and want and live their life counting on a Heaven that relates to your individual experience of life? Relationships you've formed with people throughout your life will and will have had many aspects of happiness, but there'll be many instances of unhappiness with these people. Arguments, unfaithfulness, people acting against you. People you trust in this life.


Jesus talks about the Kingdom of Heaven (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%203:2;&version=64;). I would suggest that this is not a place so much as a state. Being in heaven simply means that one wants to do the will of Christ. Obviously after physical death that is easier as the stubborness of the body ( in all it's aspects physical, emotional, etc ) has ceased. But the Kingdom would start on Earth as one "dies" to self.

And besides, who wants to live in an eternal afterlife with a bunch of suck-ups?

Do you seriously think that God, who sees into the very heart ( and mind ) of people would "let in" somebody who was just "sucking up"?

Jesus talks about the Kingdom of Heaven (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%203:2;&version=64;). I would suggest that this is not a place so much as a state. Being in heaven simply means that one wants to do the will of Christ. Obviously after physical death that is easier as the stubborness of the body ( in all it's aspects physical, emotional, etc ) has ceased. But the Kingdom would start on Earth as one "dies" to self.


But who on Earth would want to just do Christ's bidding? Most people think of heaven as a place or state where all YOUR spiritual, psychological (and perhaps physical) needs are satisfied, not Jesus's (although by definition his are satisfied there as well).

If you solely exist as an appendage of Jesus, you aren't even yourself anymore - so heaven would be like the atheist death idea anyway. You are defined by your individual wants, needs, vices and whims and if these disappear and you are assimilated, you die completely, which in some ways makes this idea of heaven way less appealing than hell even, where at least you are still yourself, regardless of what horrible things are happening to you.

Accepting Jesus is fairly widely regarded as guaranteeing eternal life in Christian philosophy (right?), but if you can't think or feel as an individual you aren't alive.

Heaven, refering the christian afterlife (The one they talk about in revelations, not the kingdom), is quite a paradox the way I see it. Apparently it is a perfect paradise, free from the conatinants of sin where man and God can physically be around eachother. The trouble is a place free of sin imposes that it's also lacking in free will. You know that 'ol chestnut.
If nothing can go wrong, you can choose to have something go wrong. In effect this means heaven is the equivilent of an ideal cult, that has perfected brainwashing. So you don't realise you don't have a choice, you're given the illusion of choice, but your programmed to always pick the right one.

Personally I'm saying this like it's a bad thing. Which theoretically that is perfection. It just seems a little superficial from the outside. Perhaps I'm twisting words here, but it seems to fit coming from a God who created a being with freewill, with the basic intent for it to give up its free will and choose to become a servant out of love?

You'd still have to be or hold some memory of the life you lived in flesh. A person who has lived a happy fulfilling life and has payed no mind to religion and has no idea of Heaven is unworthy of it? What faith will a very religious person have when in Heaven?

I think the point about heaven is no one is worthy of it. But like any awesome club - you can get in if your mates with the owner. In heaven you don't need faith, cos if you get there obviously you were right weren't you? It's no longer a belief, its a certainty.

Jesus talks about the Kingdom of Heaven (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%203:2;&version=64;). I would suggest that this is not a place so much as a state. Being in heaven simply means that one wants to do the will of Christ. Obviously after physical death that is easier as the stubborness of the body ( in all it's aspects physical, emotional, etc ) has ceased. But the Kingdom would start on Earth as one "dies" to self.
There are two separate and distinct things referred to in this manner. Heaven is the celestial location of God, while Kingdom of God is a state of self (as verified by Jesus himself).

It can be a very interesting exercise to read Luke's Gospel with this in mind.

Christians say that Heaven is being with God all the time and Hell is being eternally separated from God. Given the things God is said to have done in the bible, I think I'd take Hell.

If heaven is eternal happiness for everyone who resides in it then surely it has to be formed from each individuals perspective and be a different experience for each person as not one formular will appeal to all. Everyone's heaven will be reflected by what has happened during their time on earth as where else would we get our references from? So surely our earth life should be spent discovering for ourselves right and wrong, happiness and sadness. Without this preparation before heaven would be either be just the same as earth or a repressed state where we are told what is happiness. So therefore a person who did not lead their earth life by an already set path but instead discovered every possibility life had to offer would end with more of a true sense of heaven. Also if a person lead a sinless life accept for not having a faith surely they should have their heaven. Could you really follow something that is so vain as to condem a person to an eternal tourture so great it is unthinkable because they doubted its words?