NationStates Jolt Archive

To be exact, a Sig Navy 226 9mm handgun. I'm dissapointed. I don't want one of THOSE in MY FAMILY! :headbang: I just found this out today so I'm a little dissapointed,hurt, and reeling.











He was supposed to get a glock. :D

lol

i thought you were being an anti gun hippy there for a minute

but then again anti gun people never know anything about guns

... hahahahahaha.

I love guns. We have three in the house and Daddy, my sister and I each have our preference.

lol

i thought you were being an anti gun hippy there for a minute

but then again anti gun people never know anything about guns

What kind of hippocrite would I be with a name like designatedmarksman?

And to rub salt in my wounds it is a 9mm.

I'd take that Sig over the Glock any day my friend. Happy shooting. I'm more of .45 fan. I find that the 9mm doesn't have stopping power but even so tends to over penetrate. Ugly round really. I'm currently shooting a new USP.

Real men use this (http://www.emf-company.com/images3/1873-buntline.jpg) for home protection.

Anti-gun people should have these signs outside their homes to protest guns.
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/6552/gunfree7cf.jpg

Real men use this (http://www.emf-company.com/images3/1873-buntline.jpg) for home protection.

No, real men use this for home defense
This (http://public.andrews.amc.af.mil/jsoh/images/planes/m1a2-2_large.jpg)
And who in thier right minds would choose that over a glock?

No, real men use this for home defense
This (http://public.andrews.amc.af.mil/jsoh/images/planes/m1a2-2_large.jpg)
And who in thier right minds would choose that over a glock?

Men with taste my good sir.

(And I don't think I can fit that in my garage. Do you have a smaller version, maybe the size of a Volkswagen?)

Men with taste my good sir.

(And I don't think I can fit that in my garage. Do you have a smaller version, maybe the size of a Volkswagen?)
Sure! It's called a Wiesel (=weasel)
http://www.geocities.com/abncivilaffairs/wiesel.jpg

Sure! It's called a Wiesel (=weasel)
http://www.geocities.com/abncivilaffairs/wiesel.jpg

Freakin' awesome!

Anti-gun people should have these signs outside their homes to protest guns.
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/6552/gunfree7cf.jpg

'Unarmed', rather than 'disarmed', shurely?

Freakin' awesome!
Yeah. After all, they had to come up with something small but armored that would fit into the air transports (now that Germany deploys around the world):
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/wiesel-001.jpg
The new Airbus 340M transporters ain't ready yet...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A400M

Movies:
http://whq-files.de/filme/wiesel1.mpg (3.5MB)
http://whq-files.de/filme/wiesel_geht_in_die_eisen.mpg (1.5MB)
http://whq-files.de/filme/ozelot1.mpg (19.8MB)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/ZakkWylde470/trp.jpg


Hehe, j/k. Honestly, the thing that I don't like about the Glock is the gap between the frame and the slide. It looks (to me, anyway) like the frame is flexing just a bit. Maybe if that can be remedied, I'll find myself with a Glock 17L.

I'd take that Sig over the Glock any day my friend. Happy shooting. I'm more of .45 fan. I find that the 9mm doesn't have stopping power but even so tends to over penetrate. Ugly round really. I'm currently shooting a new USP.



my GLOCK is .45 acp


What did I miss ?:) I sold my sig to buy it .;)

I've enjoyed the Sig P220 Sport for target shooting. I'd sometimes use .45 handloaded wadcutters.

9mm will do the job, however in colder weather if you are using hollowpoints clothes will fill up the nose of the HP and cause it to act just like FMJ ammo. Ball ammo in any pistol caliber is not a good idea. 9mm and .40 are both deflected a lot when shot through glass-45 has only a tiny bit and holds itself together pretty well. Plus you can never be accused of having too small a gun :D

Give me a steel frame over a piece of plastic any day.

9mm will do the job, however in colder weather if you are using hollowpoints clothes will fill up the nose of the HP and cause it to act just like FMJ ammo. Ball ammo in any pistol caliber is not a good idea. 9mm and .40 are both deflected a lot when shot through glass-45 has only a tiny bit and holds itself together pretty well. Plus you can never be accused of having too small a gun

Okay, I don't know where you get your information, but it's basically all wrong. A piece of cloth would "jam" a hollow point no more than a piece of flesh. I've seen all kinds of bullets after passing through all manner of materials and I've never seen a hollow point that didn't deform. That's not to it can't happen, but the circumstances would have to be very special.

As far as deflection, all bullets are will deflect and fragment when passing through a mass. The size of the bullet doesn't determine that alone. It also depends on the grain, velocity, trajectory, quality, etc. Generally speaking though, .45 FMJ would perform better than other FMJ rounds. It's a little different comparing HP, because the point of HP is to fragment and transfer all (atleast maximum) kinetic energy into the target.

Gun nuts are compensating for their tiny penises.

</flame>

You read a lot about guns...

Have you actually pointed one of those things at people? Have you seen gunshots?

I am amazed as people are happily comparing lethal weapons meant for killing other sentient beings. :rolleyes:

I am amazed as people are happily comparing lethal weapons meant for killing other sentient beings. :rolleyes:

No, a pistol is meant to end a situation that someone else begins.

Most of the time in the US, the mere display of a pistol stops crime in progress. Millions of times a year.

And I'm still quite happy without a gun. Not only does no one in my neighbourhood own a gun (presumably), but none of the criminals around here seem to own one either (presumably).

And I'm still quite happy without a gun. Not only does no one in my neighbourhood own a gun (presumably), but none of the criminals around here seem to own one either (presumably).

Whatever works for you.

:sniper: :gundge: :mp5: are all for pussy's, real men use swords, axes, daggers and that kind of stuff, guns r for cowards.

:sniper: :gundge: :mp5: are all for pussy's, real men use swords, axes, daggers and that kind of stuff, guns r for cowards.

Real men use a brick on a string.

But firearms are fine too.

The main wall in my living room has a pair of swords crossed over beneath a portrait and history of my family coat-of-arms. Either side of that are two blank-firing pistols; one berretta 92F and a walther ppk!

Can't be real pistols 'cos they're "illegal" in the UK

Most of the time in the US, the mere display of a pistol stops crime in progress. Millions of times a year.

Are there any actual figures for this?

Are there any actual figures for this?
Yes.

First, violent crime in the US has plummeted, including firearm related crime, even though firearm ownership has radcially increased.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

And studies have been done.

According to the National Self Defense Survey conducted by Florida State University criminologists in 1994, the rate of Defensive Gun Uses can be projected nationwide to approximately 2.5 million per year -- one Defensive Gun Use every 13 seconds.

Real men use a brick on a string.

Damn straight

Originally Posted by MFUSR
Real men use a brick on a string.

Damn straight

Real men use their bare hands!!

Real men use their bare hands!!
No, real men dick slap people.

No, real men dick slap people.


Got me their:p

lol

i thought you were being an anti gun hippy there for a minute

but then again anti gun people never know anything about guns

I like the way guns work but I don't own any nor do I want one. I'm not a hippey, or a "pussy." Simply don't care enough to get one. Plus if you own a weapon it can be used against you.

I like the way guns work but I don't own any nor do I want one. I'm not a hippey, or a "pussy." Simply don't care enough to get one. Plus if you own a weapon it can be used against you.

That last part is an urban myth. In fact, police are more likely to have their weapon used against them as opposed to an armed civilian.

One of the advantages of living about ten miles from the ass end of nowhere is the fact that your shooting range doesnt have any silly rules about not shooting assorted targets.
Pinapples, for example.
After the combination of a .44 mag. and a pinapple, Im afraid that revolver will live in my heart forever ;)
The sight of that little top bit with all the leaves on it dissappearing over the top of a hill fifty feet away is burned into my brain. As is the slow-motion view of a pinapple slowly exploding.

Real men use a brick on a string.

Nah, a beer can in a sock.

Nah, a beer can in a sock.

Foster's!

Of course, as I said before, drinking it would do more damage than hitting with it...

One of the advantages of living about ten miles from the ass end of nowhere is the fact that your shooting range doesnt have any silly rules about not shooting assorted targets.
Pinapples, for example.
After the combination of a .44 mag. and a pinapple, Im afraid that revolver will live in my heart forever ;)
The sight of that little top bit with all the leaves on it dissappearing over the top of a hill fifty feet away is burned into my brain. As is the slow-motion view of a pinapple slowly exploding.

You forgot to armour-plate the pineapple!

lol

i thought you were being an anti gun hippy there for a minute

but then again anti gun people never know anything about guns

Except for me, I'm a gun nerd, and in favour of gun control.

That said, I'd like to get an FN Five-seveN. :D

I like the way guns work but I don't own any nor do I want one. I'm not a hippey, or a "pussy." Simply don't care enough to get one. Plus if you own a weapon it can be used against you.

If you don't own one you still have to worry about the other guy's weapon. ;)

He was supposed to get a glock. :D

I wouldn't mind a glock, but sence I am on a limited budget I have a Taurus.

Good stuff either way!

No, real men dick slap people.

Real men talk, or manipulate. Guns are for savages

Real men talk, or manipulate. Guns are for savages
I've noticed that when people want to rob you, they actually listen to you talk when your pistol is pointed at their head.

I've noticed that when people want to rob you, they actually listen to you talk when your pistol is pointed at their head.

I don't know. I have been robbed several times as I live in a really dangerous city. Once two guys tried to kidnap me. Each and every time my tongue got me out of it. I am pretty sure that with a gun things could had been more messy.

I have seen it happens several times...Perhaps you take care the thief or aggressor, and yet come out badly wounded, if not with a lethal wound. Gunfights at point blank range are vicious and unpredictable even if you are the most feared gunslinger in the wild south. And perhaps just for a few dollars...or for an hurled insult

The answer? Let authorities (police) keep the monopoly of force. That's why you pay taxes

I don't know. I have been robbed several times as I live in a really dangerous city. Once two guys tried to kidnap me. Each and every time my tongue got me out of it. I am pretty sure that with a gun things could had been more messy.

I have seen it happens several times...Perhaps you take care the thief or aggressor, and yet come out badly wounded, if not with a lethal wound. Gunfights at point blank range are vicious and unpredictable even if you are the most feared gunslinger in the wild south. And perhaps just for a few dollars...or for an hurled insult

The answer? Let authorities (police) keep the monopoly of force. That's why you pay taxes

I've been successful three times.

My friend, who once believed as you do, had his hands chopped off outside of a movie theater after he gave over his wallet. They cut his hands off for fun.

I've been successful three times.

My friend, who once believed as you do, had his hands chopped off outside of a movie theater after he gave over his wallet. They cut his hands off for fun.

In what kind of theater your friend was?. I have seen and heard savage things, but that's a bit extreme. Cutting limbs in public requires the worst of tastes, and time...Even in hellholes like around here those things do not happen...

Give me a steel frame over a piece of plastic any day.



Okay, I don't know where you get your information, but it's basically all wrong. A piece of cloth would "jam" a hollow point no more than a piece of flesh. I've seen all kinds of bullets after passing through all manner of materials and I've never seen a hollow point that didn't deform. That's not to it can't happen, but the circumstances would have to be very special.

As far as deflection, all bullets are will deflect and fragment when passing through a mass. The size of the bullet doesn't determine that alone. It also depends on the grain, velocity, trajectory, quality, etc. Generally speaking though, .45 FMJ would perform better than other FMJ rounds. It's a little different comparing HP, because the point of HP is to fragment and transfer all (atleast maximum) kinetic energy into the target.

Holowpoints are intended to expand in flesh. The fibers from clothing fill up the nose and it acts much like a FMJ bullet. The Godfather of defensive shooting, Massad Ayoob, typically switched from 9mm to 45 when it got colder because of the thicker clothing typically worn.

Some guys tested a bunch of common calibers on a buick some time ago. 9mm and 40 both had a bit of deflection when being shot through glass. 45 has almost nil. 5.56, 7.62x39, and 308 will both eat a car like nobody's business. The 5.7 doesn't even penetrate the first door :D.

You read a lot about guns...

Have you actually pointed one of those things at people? Have you seen gunshots?

People? No. Hope I never have to, but that's why I have it. Only time I would is if I was in danger and the perp needed to be ventilated. It's not as if I'm walking around rambo style looking for someone to threaten me.

I've seen lots of Gun shot injuries. Crooks who deserved it (and rightfully died, some unfortunately lived) Policemen, kids playing with dad's revolver, crackheads trying to get crack money (I have a family member caught in this vicious cycle), careless sportsman, and many others. I am a criminal justice major at a faily large school, so I DO see this often as this is my field of study.

I've been successful three times.

My friend, who once believed as you do, had his hands chopped off outside of a movie theater after he gave over his wallet. They cut his hands off for fun.

Your money may not be worth dying for, but your dignity is.

In what kind of theater your friend was?. I have seen and heard savage things, but that's a bit extreme. Cutting limbs in public requires the worst of tastes, and time...Even in hellholes like around here those things do not happen...

Ever hear of MS13? Immigration at it's finest.

In what kind of theater your friend was?. I have seen and heard savage things, but that's a bit extreme. Cutting limbs in public requires the worst of tastes, and time...Even in hellholes like around here those things do not happen...
In Fairfax County, Virginia, one of the lowest violent crime locations in the US (considering its proximity to Washington DC).

You'll note that the first two police ever killed in the line of duty by someone using a weapon happened about a week ago in Fairfax County - that's how quiet it usually is - even the police are relatively safe.

But you never know.

1.- Easy to blame things in inmigrants.
2.- Dignity? You can keep your dignity easily by talking. I am a woman, I have my dignity some times even more compromised daily, and it doesn't prevent me for doing so. My brothers and father own a lot of guns, and it doesn't help them either.
3.-Sad to hear things as "Crooks who deserved it", but that's your point of view. I hope you are not loose in the world deciding which crooks deserve "it" to force them to rightfully die.

1.- Easy to blame things in inmigrants.
2.- Dignity? You can keep your dignity easily by talking. I am a woman, I have my dignity some times even more compromised daily, and it doesn't prevent me for doing so. My brothers and father own a lot of guns, and it doesn't help them either.
3.-Sad to hear things as "Crooks who deserved it", but that's your point of view. I hope you are not loose in the world deciding which crooks deserve "it" to force them to rightfully die.
Oh, I don't shoot until they die - that's just a coincidence.

I'm all for shooting to "STOP". Once they stop, I'll stop shooting.

I'm not a medical expert, and can't tell if someone is legally dead. But I'm pretty good at telling if someone no longer poses a lethal threat.

DM, you never said why you didn't want a Sig. I've heard the P-series at least, were pretty reliable and accurate sidearms. When I have the cash flow,(current work sitch being rather unstable) I was gonna look into a P229. Though a Glock in .40 S&W is my second choice.

ok.....

I've been successful three times.

My friend, who once believed as you do, had his hands chopped off outside of a movie theater after he gave over his wallet. They cut his hands off for fun.

Good old Kimchi, a made up story to support whatever he says.

Not to mention that anecdotal evidence, even if true, is not a good way to go about proving things.

I mean, someone who won the lottery could go, "Oh yeah, those things are easy to win, heck, even I won one!"

ok.....

Erm, care to clarify that?

Reading these posts, about other guys big weapons, thinking about grabbing a heavy gun with both hands, loading it slowly by pushing firm and well-rounded bullets into the magazine, inserting the magazine into the naked gun, cocking the firearm gently before take a long, hard look at the erect target at the end of my sight, seeing the target looking back up into the stiff barrel of my loaded gun, firmly squeezing the trigger, feeling the thrust of the recoil, feeling the warmth of the gun as it ejects the hot cartridge from its body, knowing that the bullet will achieve full penetration of the target and expand in the moist, succulent flesh...



I think I need to lie down for a while.

^ Or join me and my uncle busting pesky rabbits and bunnies?

The shotgun and saloon rifle hold my measure of Donne. :D

^ Or join me and my uncle busting pesky rabbits and bunnies?

The shotgun and saloon rifle hold my measure of Donne. :D
:eek:

My, you sure do grab some big guns there...

Reading these posts, about other guys big weapons, thinking about grabbing a heavy gun with both hands, loading it slowly by pushing firm and well-rounded bullets into the magazine, inserting the magazine into the naked gun, cocking the firearm gently before take a long, hard look at the erect target at the end of my sight, seeing the target looking back up into the stiff barrel of my loaded gun, firmly squeezing the trigger, feeling the thrust of the recoil, feeling the warmth of the gun as it ejects the hot cartridge from its body, knowing that the bullet will achieve full penetration of the target and expand in the moist, succulent flesh...



I think I need to lie down for a while.

LOL, looks like cold shower might be in order too!

^ And eventual bulls by the horns, which brings us to the topic of the US:
Is it legal to hunt buffalos there?

All the buffalo I know of are owned by ranchers, so I somehow doubt.

I don't think there are any really wild buffalo anymore... they're all either on ranches or in wildlife preserves or zoos. So no, no shooting them. Deer are another story, though... but then you have to get a lisence and things.

Personally, I prefer an AK-47 best. Or a good solid long-barrel .44 revolver - those are easy to aim, fun to shoot, and make decent holes. But for home defense, I'd stick with a Glock .45 with hollow point bullets, so they don't go through my walls. I don't care how much they rip up the guy, I just don't want anyone in the next room getting hit accidentally.

I also am a martial artist, but I figure the martial arts gives me enough time to get the gun out, if I can't talk my way out of it. In time and space, though, I've always been able to talk my way out of everything. It's a much more graceful way of dealing with things.

When defending my family I insist on using a tazer gun, or eventually kicking the bugger(s) in the shins.

There is no reason that a good piece of lead should be honoured to pierce an arsehole's flesh.

pffft. SigSauer is much better than Glock. Not as good as a Springfield perhaps, but better than Glock.

1.- Easy to blame things in inmigrants.
2.- Dignity? You can keep your dignity easily by talking. I am a woman, I have my dignity some times even more compromised daily, and it doesn't prevent me for doing so. My brothers and father own a lot of guns, and it doesn't help them either.
3.-Sad to hear things as "Crooks who deserved it", but that's your point of view. I hope you are not loose in the world deciding which crooks deserve "it" to force them to rightfully die.

Would I force a crook to die? No. I would much rather let the justice system deal with them, however, if they raise a weapon at me...well, I don't have a choice and my life is more valuable then theirs.

The crook who commited armed home invasion of an elderly couple and beat one of them to death deserved to get shot and die. Yep, sure is a fine and upstanding example of a citizen for sure.

DM, you never said why you didn't want a Sig. I've heard the P-series at least, were pretty reliable and accurate sidearms. When I have the cash flow,(current work sitch being rather unstable) I was gonna look into a P229. Though a Glock in .40 S&W is my second choice.

Sig frames are good for only 30k rounds or so. They are NICE guns, however I like glock better because it's tougher, lighter, less recoil, less parts to lose and strip, and they LAST. I know a guy with 130k rounds through his glock 21 and it still runs like a top despite being trashed and abused.

Real men use this (http://www.emf-company.com/images3/1873-buntline.jpg) for home protection.

Real men use this (http://www.corpsstories.com/ArthurBea.jpg) for home protection. I find it works better than a Sig or a Glock.

Gracias Marksman, I will take a better look at Glock well before I spend my money. We had a Glock 23 in the studio here for awhile as a reference model. I was surprised how comfortable the palstic grips were, even though the 23 is a bit small for my hands, my pinky was kinda left hanging.

Viviani- That is so wrong. And so frightening......

Sig frames are good for only 30k rounds or so. They are NICE guns, however I like glock better because it's tougher, lighter, less recoil, less parts to lose and strip, and they LAST. I know a guy with 130k rounds through his glock 21 and it still runs like a top despite being trashed and abused.

Yeah, Sigs are great and all that, but they have just too much recoil for my taste. I don't like feeling like my hands just got blown off my the explosion I was holding. Plus the plastic Glock frame can hold up to anything without really deteriorating.

Just get some decent booby traps for home protection :)

You can make really good shrapnel boobytraps with just a tin can, one of those surplus grenades casings and some black powder...

But I've already had my nation deleted for telling people to do dangerous stuff, so I won't again.

Real men use this (http://www.corpsstories.com/ArthurBea.jpg) for home protection. I find it works better than a Sig or a Glock.

You win, hands down. Of course I would never pass the background check for one of those.

Gracias Marksman, I will take a better look at Glock well before I spend my money. We had a Glock 23 in the studio here for awhile as a reference model. I was surprised how comfortable the palstic grips were, even though the 23 is a bit small for my hands, my pinky was kinda left hanging.

Viviani- That is so wrong. And so frightening......

Glocks are great pistols that are also competitively priced. That's why I'm such a big pusher of them.

Yeah, Sigs are great and all that, but they have just too much recoil for my taste. I don't like feeling like my hands just got blown off my the explosion I was holding. Plus the plastic Glock frame can hold up to anything without really deteriorating.

The barrel sits a little higher on the frame then on a glock, which is why the recoil is higher.

What will absolutely KILL a polymer frame Iheard is SUPER heated hot water.(Rumour probably) Supposedly it will breakdown the polymer threads....think 200 degree water+.

I've got a link to a Sig 226 being hit with a baseball bat and launched up against a wall and still working fine. I"l post it.

I'd be mad as hell






.....he shoulda bought a Sig P220 .45 matte and stainless :p


To be exact, a Sig Navy 226 9mm handgun. I'm dissapointed. I don't want one of THOSE in MY FAMILY! :headbang: I just found this out today so I'm a little dissapointed,hurt, and reeling.











He was supposed to get a glock. :D

No you can shoot dumb animals with them too:upyours:

I am amazed as people are happily comparing lethal weapons meant for killing other sentient beings. :rolleyes:

No you can shoot dumb animals with them too upyours
:rolleyes: You can shoot absolutely anything you want with a gun, people, animals, trees, brick walls, manequins. Anything you can point on at really.

Oh, and realy men use this to protect their home: Buddha (http://www.buddhanet.net/images/main2004/splash_buddha-pict.jpg)
One of those bad boys across the head will stop anyone in his tracks. You can throw them pretty far too.

Anti-gun people should have these signs outside their homes to protest guns.
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/6552/gunfree7cf.jpg
If you get robbed that often that you need to shoot at people, might I suggest moving to a neighborhood less crime riddled?

If you get robbed that often that you need to shoot at people, might I suggest moving to a neighborhood less crime riddled?

Doesn't have to happen more than once my friend.

Doesn't have to happen more than once my friend.
My laptop isn't worth anyone's life. If somebody came into my house with a gun, they get my laptop, then I file a complaint, then I start at the beginning again. Hitting them over the head with that buddha statue isn't a bad idea though, if I got the chance.

My laptop isn't worth anyone's life. If somebody came into my house with a gun, they get my laptop, then I file a complaint, then I start at the beginning again. Hitting them over the head with that buddha statue isn't a bad idea though, if I got the chance.
Home Owner:'Here, leave my laptop and take this solid gold Buddha'
Robber:'Sounds good'
HO:*throws Buddha at R's head*
R:Wuh*unconscious*
HO:'That's right bitch. Fear the Buddha'

Gun nuts are compensating for their tiny penises.

</flame>

Actually, guns/weapons/etc are the sign of manhood. :cool:

Actually, guns are the sign of manhood. The loving of guns requires the presence of testosterone (there are exceptions with some female gunowners/lovers). Most men that are anti-gun are little squeeky nerds or just hardcore hippies.
Women have testosterone too, just like men have some oestrogen and progesterone.
Guns being a sign of manhood depends on what you would define manhood as being.
What makes you think 'little squeeky nerds' have less testosterone than pro gun men?

Home Owner:'Here, leave my laptop and take this solid gold Buddha'
Robber:'Sounds good'
HO:*throws Buddha at R's head*
R:Wuh*unconscious*
HO:'That's right bitch. Fear the Buddha'

Wow. I LOLed at that one.

*sigh*... I really want a Glock. :|

Actually, guns/weapons/etc are the sign of manhood. :cool:
It's a sign of... something (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10987565&postcount=57) ... :cool:

Actually, guns/weapons/etc are the sign of manhood. :cool:

What worries me is that the ones who equate guns with penises, want to take everyones penises away!

Guns are great at stopping crime. Try and find a robber who will keep looking around a house when he hears the sound of a shotgun being cocked behind him. now if he was deaf....

Somebody breaks into my house and trys to steal my laptop?
Yea, he's going to get a chest full of buckshot.

Why?
Becacuse its my laptop. If he wants one, He can earn it. He made stupid mistakes in his life to get to where he has to rob houses to make a living. Its not my responsability to give him anything.

Have I shot firearms?
Yes. I was in the boy scouts for 8 years and did shooting all the time. Have i shot sense then? yes, i'm a member of a local gun club and the NRA.

Have i seen gunshot wounds?
Yes, i used to live in LA and have seen what they can do.

Would i still use a gun against somebody being threatening towards myself or any friends/family?
You bet your sweet ass I would.

As for the person who said "let the police have the monopoly of force" or whatever..

I live pretty far from from the nearest police station. i call the police from my house and there are none of them in the general area it would take about 15 min for them just to get into the vacinity of my house, then they have to find it. Armed Robbers however...

Thats why i keep myself armed. My girlfriend and her daughter live with me and i still keep firearms around the house.

But isnt that dangerous?

Hell no. Its called a freaking gun lock. Try teaching the child proper gun control so they dont treat it like a toy.

Women Especially should keep a firearm of some sort. Especially if they live alone. 99% of the time, a Man could easily over power a woman and do what they want. Would the same person try such a thing if they broke in and were greeted by a handgun pointed at their face?

Guns are great at stopping crime. Try and find a robber who will keep looking around a house when he hears the sound of a shotgun being cocked behind him. now if he was deaf....

Somebody breaks into my house and trys to steal my laptop?
Yea, he's going to get a chest full of buckshot.

Why?
Becacuse its my laptop. If he wants one, He can earn it. He made stupid mistakes in his life to get to where he has to rob houses to make a living. Its not my responsability to give him anything.

Have I shot firearms?
Yes. I was in the boy scouts for 8 years and did shooting all the time. Have i shot sense then? yes, i'm a member of a local gun club and the NRA.

Have i seen gunshot wounds?
Yes, i used to live in LA and have seen what they can do.

Would i still use a gun against somebody being threatening towards myself or any friends/family?
You bet your sweet ass I would.

As for the person who said "let the police have the monopoly of force" or whatever..

I live pretty far from from the nearest police station. i call the police from my house and there are none of them in the general area it would take about 15 min for them just to get into the vacinity of my house, then they have to find it. Armed Robbers however...

Thats why i keep myself armed. My girlfriend and her daughter live with me and i still keep firearms around the house.

But isnt that dangerous?

Hell no. Its called a freaking gun lock. Try teaching the child proper gun control so they dont treat it like a toy.

Women Especially should keep a firearm of some sort. Especially if they live alone. 99% of the time, a Man could easily over power a woman and do what they want. Would the same person try such a thing if they broke in and were greeted by a handgun pointed at their face?
Just don't get depressed and drunk and remember you have a gun under the pillow.

I'd be mad as hell






.....he shoulda bought a Sig P220 .45 matte and stainless :p

Atleast a 40. Please. Men don't let men buy 9mms. It's only for pansies, women, and europeans.


What worries me is that the ones who equate guns with penises, want to take everyones penises away!

Penis envy?

"They were jealous because our guns were bigger than their guns!"

-Katrina survivor who had his guns unlawfully seized by the NOPD

:D

Real men use this (http://www.emf-company.com/images3/1873-buntline.jpg) for home protection.

No they don't. Real men use something like this (http://www.weaponmasters.com/index.html?ID=2ad552b90aeca3a56d66ff5657b73880&FDX=&FMAX=&SORT=&ITEM=BK-491&TTAB=ADDITIONAL_IMAGES). XD

Guns are great at stopping crime. Try and find a robber who will keep looking around a house when he hears the sound of a shotgun being cocked behind him. now if he was deaf....

Somebody breaks into my house and trys to steal my laptop?
Yea, he's going to get a chest full of buckshot.

Why?
Becacuse its my laptop. If he wants one, He can earn it. He made stupid mistakes in his life to get to where he has to rob houses to make a living. Its not my responsability to give him anything.

Have I shot firearms?
Yes. I was in the boy scouts for 8 years and did shooting all the time. Have i shot sense then? yes, i'm a member of a local gun club and the NRA.

Have i seen gunshot wounds?
Yes, i used to live in LA and have seen what they can do.

Would i still use a gun against somebody being threatening towards myself or any friends/family?
You bet your sweet ass I would.

As for the person who said "let the police have the monopoly of force" or whatever..

I live pretty far from from the nearest police station. i call the police from my house and there are none of them in the general area it would take about 15 min for them just to get into the vacinity of my house, then they have to find it. Armed Robbers however...

Thats why i keep myself armed. My girlfriend and her daughter live with me and i still keep firearms around the house.

But isnt that dangerous?

Hell no. Its called a freaking gun lock. Try teaching the child proper gun control so they dont treat it like a toy.

Women Especially should keep a firearm of some sort. Especially if they live alone. 99% of the time, a Man could easily over power a woman and do what they want. Would the same person try such a thing if they broke in and were greeted by a handgun pointed at their face?

No way I am going to argue with someone like you. We will talk again after your daughter grabs a piece and unloads it at her school mates, or even worst, someone disarms you and kill you with your own gun, after you grasp the meaning of humiliation.

I am a woman, and I am a journalist. I have been under fire several times, I even tried to drag a gunshot photographer out the line of fire once as people were firing against us. I have seen enough gunshots after covering hospitals for several months and after finding unpleasant surprises in the streets of the third world where I live.

I have seen enough of guns, and it looks like I have seen the worst of it. If you think that more violence is going to help fixing the world, fine. You look like you have seen enough of guns too, and yet you are trying to look a "bright" side to it...No idea why.

If you think that more violence is going to help fixing the world, fine.

I don't care if violence fixes the world. As long as it protects me, I'm happy with it.

-snip- We will talk again after your daughter grabs a piece and unloads it at her school mates, or even worst, someone disarms you and kill you with your own gun, after you grasp the meaning of humiliation..

Is it generally taken for granted then that despite the use of a gun lock, (something that is designed to be super secure against even a child) and proper education, a child is guaranteed to consciously find a way to get into a locked cabinet, load the weapon and take it to a school where he/she re-enacts the police station scene from "The Terminator"?

As I understand it, if a law-abiding citizen owns a gun then they will have a licence, which I assume, can and only be issued once the owner-to-be has proven that they are super-responsible and will keep the firearm in a place, inaccessible to curious, little hands?

And frankly, the odds may well be better that a person living in a home with a gun is more likely to be shot than is a person living in a household without a gun.

But who cares? That doesn't tell me anything about the relative likelihood that either of them will be killed by any means, or wounded by any means. If the odds that I get shot increase by 10%, but the odds that I get stabbed drop enough that the combined odds are better, haven't I improved my safety, even though I'm more likely to get shot?

No way I am going to argue with someone like you. We will talk again after your daughter grabs a piece and unloads it at her school mates, or even worst, someone disarms you and kill you with your own gun, after you grasp the meaning of humiliation. -snip-

You are making a huge assumption though. Your assumption that his girlfriends daughter is going to instantly go crazy when she handles one of his weapons and go gunning for her friends.

Why the hell do anti-firearm people ALWAYS assume that the instant that a person gets their hands on a weapon that they are gonna go nutters and start blowing random people away? You'all watch to many damned movies. The real world doesn't work like that You are more likely to be killed by a cop, than by a firearm-carrying law-abiding citizen. Somewhere on my home computer, I have a old link to a Justice Department page that states that very thing.

Damn, sounds like Venezuela is a violent place to live there. Thought about moving to Brazil or something?

And frankly, the odds may well be better that a person living in a home with a gun is more likely to be shot than is a person living in a household without a gun.

But who cares? That doesn't tell me anything about the relative likelihood that either of them will be killed by any means, or wounded by any means. If the odds that I get shot increase by 10%, but the odds that I get stabbed drop enough that the combined odds are better, haven't I improved my safety, even though I'm more likely to get shot?

If you own a car chances are 100% that you will get into an accident with one as compared to a person without a car.

That more accidents with a gun in the home statistic is bullcrap.No way I am going to argue with someone like you. We will talk again after your daughter grabs a piece and unloads it at her school mates, or even worst, someone disarms you and kill you with your own gun, after you grasp the meaning of humiliation.

I am a woman, and I am a journalist. I have been under fire several times, I even tried to drag a gunshot photographer out the line of fire once as people were firing against us. I have seen enough gunshots after covering hospitals for several months and after finding unpleasant surprises in the streets of the third world where I live.

I have seen enough of guns, and it looks like I have seen the worst of it. If you think that more violence is going to help fixing the world, fine. You look like you have seen enough of guns too, and yet you are trying to look a "bright" side to it...No idea why.

Apparently you haven't seen enough murderers.

FYI-normal daughters don't grab pistols and start shooting people. Maybe this is indicative of yourself or where you live, but here it's not an everyday occurence that somone goes on a rampage. Noone will ever disarm me and kill me with my own gun, because if I am going to carry one gun I'm going to have a backup. Have you ever tried to grab a football from someone? Its HARD. It's much easier to take a gun from a police officer because they secure them in holsters-private individuals who are awaken from their sleep at night due to burglars are not going to use one openly.

Is it generally taken for granted then that despite the use of a gun lock, (something that is designed to be super secure against even a child) and proper education, a child is guaranteed to consciously find a way to get into a locked cabinet, load the weapon and take it to a school where he/she re-enacts the police station scene from "The Terminator"?

As I understand it, if a law-abiding citizen owns a gun then they will have a licence, which I assume, can and only be issued once the owner-to-be has proven that they are super-responsible and will keep the firearm in a place, inaccessible to curious, little hands?

No. In order to buy a gun you pass an instant background check and that's it. There isn't any licensing, except for IL,NYC, and a few other states. The only license you'll need is if you carry a weapon concealed...thats it.

Very few guns are stolen OUT of safes. The most common way a weapon is stolen is if the owner is transporting it in a car and the car is stolen OR the weapon is visible and the car is broken into expressly for the purpose of stealing the weapon.

Atleast a 40. Please. Men don't let men buy 9mms. It's only for pansies, women, and europeans.

A .40 isn't going to poke holes in body armour like a Five-seveN. ;)

If you think that more violence is going to help fixing the world, fine.
Rome fixed Carthage pretty well, IMO. Never had any problems with them ever again after the whole razing-their-capitol-sow-the-earth-with-salt thing.

No way I am going to argue with someone like you. We will talk again after your daughter grabs a piece and unloads it at her school mates, or even worst, someone disarms you and kill you with your own gun, after you grasp the meaning of humiliation.

I am a woman, and I am a journalist. I have been under fire several times, I even tried to drag a gunshot photographer out the line of fire once as people were firing against us. I have seen enough gunshots after covering hospitals for several months and after finding unpleasant surprises in the streets of the third world where I live.

Ah. So you live in the third world. Entirely different equation, not to mention that the greatest massacres aren't even perpetrated using guns, but with really big knives. Also ignoring the fact that not a single kid who's gone on to slaughter his classmates grew up with guns and was taught the proper handling of one. As well as ignoring the fact that a civilian is much, much less likely to have their gun taken away from them and shot with it as a cop is. And even then it's a pretty rare thing even for them.

A .40 isn't going to poke holes in body armour like a Five-seveN. ;)
Can you say mozambique drills?

And frankly, the odds may well be better that a person living in a home with a gun is more likely to be shot than is a person living in a household without a gun.

But who cares? That doesn't tell me anything about the relative likelihood that either of them will be killed by any means, or wounded by any means. If the odds that I get shot increase by 10%, but the odds that I get stabbed drop enough that the combined odds are better, haven't I improved my safety, even though I'm more likely to get shot?
Not to mention that most of the gun statistics don't take into account the legality of the aquisition of the gun as well as the legality of the person's other activities.

No they don't. Real men use something like this (http://www.weaponmasters.com/index.html?ID=2ad552b90aeca3a56d66ff5657b73880&FDX=&FMAX=&SORT=&ITEM=BK-491&TTAB=ADDITIONAL_IMAGES). XD
Real men don't let other people tell that what kind of weapon they should use to defend themselves from criminals. ;)

No way I am going to argue with someone like you. We will talk again after your daughter grabs a piece and unloads it at her school mates


Or maybe when your daughter is raped or worse because she was incapable of defending herself.

Just get some decent booby traps for home protection :)

You can make really good shrapnel boobytraps with just a tin can, one of those surplus grenades casings and some black powder...

But I've already had my nation deleted for telling people to do dangerous stuff, so I won't again.
Booby traps are also illegal in most jurisdictions.

I don't know. I have been robbed several times as I live in a really dangerous city. Once two guys tried to kidnap me. Each and every time my tongue got me out of it. I am pretty sure that with a gun things could had been more messy.

I have seen it happens several times...Perhaps you take care the thief or aggressor, and yet come out badly wounded, if not with a lethal wound. Gunfights at point blank range are vicious and unpredictable even if you are the most feared gunslinger in the wild south. And perhaps just for a few dollars...or for an hurled insult

Statisticly, resisting an aggressor with a firearm is far more effective than not resisting, or using a less effective weapon.

Real men talk, or manipulate. Guns are for savages
Real men use moveable type, or hieroglyphs. Computers are for savages.
Real men ride horses, or walk. Cars are for savages.
Real men use ether and unsterilized tools. Modern medicine is for savages.

Plus if you own a weapon it can be used against you.
Only if you allow it to be.

No way I am going to argue with someone like you. We will talk again after your daughter grabs a piece and unloads it at her school mates, or even worst, someone disarms you and kill you with your own gun, after you grasp the meaning of humiliation.

I am a woman, and I am a journalist. I have been under fire several times, I even tried to drag a gunshot photographer out the line of fire once as people were firing against us. I have seen enough gunshots after covering hospitals for several months and after finding unpleasant surprises in the streets of the third world where I live.

I have seen enough of guns, and it looks like I have seen the worst of it. If you think that more violence is going to help fixing the world, fine. You look like you have seen enough of guns too, and yet you are trying to look a "bright" side to it...No idea why.

I have had enough of women being beaten by men, and killed by men using their bare hands.

I've trained over 200 women to use and carry pistols. In the past two and a half years, none have had their children touch their weapons, and the men who were previously stalking and beating them repeatedly have stopped.

It's been a stellar success - without firing a shot. Certainly far, far more effective than the police.

None of these women want to go back to being disarmed, and waiting for the police to come while they are beaten until they are hospitalized or killed.

They don't have to go far to find a bright side.

Of course, you would rather they remain defenseless.

Honest to God, gun nuts are insane. So what if you get burgled? Is your TV worth gunning someone down? If you think your life is at risk... Let the bastards take your stuff. Insurance is good. Don't have insurance? Then maybe the money you spent on that great big phallic symbol should've been spent towards that instead. :)

Honest to God, gun nuts are insane. So what if you get burgled? Is your TV worth gunning someone down? If you think your life is at risk... Let the bastards take your stuff. Insurance is good. Don't have insurance? Then maybe the money you spent on that great big phallic symbol should've been spent towards that instead. :)
First of all, why the hell should I have to? Second of all, what if the burglars are not interested simply in my stuff?

EDIT: And third, maybe I didn't buy "that great big phallic symbol" just for home defense.

It's disturbing, the 'why should I have to?' argument.

PROVE YOU'RE BETTER THAN THEM! If you feel the need to blow them a new one, you're no better than them, i.e. human scum.

It's disturbing, the 'why should I have to?' argument.

PROVE YOU'RE BETTER THAN THEM!
"Prove I'm better than them"? What's so blessed about allowing myself to become a victim? Why shouldn't I exercise my right of citizen's arrest? Why should I allow myself to have my possessions stolen unnessarially? Why should I allow my (hypothetical) wife or children to be raped, kidnapped or murdered?

The right of self defense is explicitly reconized by both Canadian law and the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures. Where, sir, do you get off telling me what steps I should or should not take to safeguard my life and my property?

EDIT: And how does using proportional force to defend my own life from an imminent threat make me "human scum"?

Burglars generally don't want to kill you. They want your stuff.

You must be living in a weird country, where absolutely everyone who isn't a responsible gun owner is in fact a rabid murdering rapist.

Honest to God, gun nuts are insane. So what if you get burgled? Is your TV worth gunning someone down? If you think your life is at risk... Let the bastards take your stuff. Insurance is good. Don't have insurance? Then maybe the money you spent on that great big phallic symbol should've been spent towards that instead. :)
I was going to object the idea that someone has a right to take my property. When I started to type out the response, I realized that it would sound very anti-governmental to object to this concept. Isn't this exactly what happens to us every day we earn money? The government takes it's share and because we don't want to cause a fuss, we allow them to have it.

Nah, I'm right. No one has the right to come in and take my property or threaten my safety. If law enforcement can't keep predators from entering my house and threating my safety, then I will. It seems pretty simple to me.

Hey, why don't you all band together, you know, find the ones that get away and kneecap the bastards?

Burglars generally don't want to kill you. They want your stuff.

Generally, but again, what about my hypothetical wife and children? What about the very real possibility (which exists everywhere, not just in "bad neighbours") of being killed or injured by a mugger? What about a thousand other hypothetical scenarios?

And why should I assume that a criminal is only interested in stealing my possessions and my dignity, and nothing more? Why should I rely on the goodwill of carreer criminals?



You must be living in a weird country, where absolutely everyone who isn't a responsible gun owner is in fact a rabid murdering rapist.
You must be a weird person, who thinks that absolutely everyone who owns a GUN!!!!112 must be a horrible bloodthirsty maniac who's just looking for an excuse to start blasting away.

You may not be interested in taking measures to ensure your own safety and well-being. Please do not assume that everyone else is as foolish, or that your attitude towards personal safety is in any way virtuitous or admirable, because it is nothing of the sort.

Burglars generally don't want to kill you. They want your stuff.

You must be living in a weird country, where absolutely everyone who isn't a responsible gun owner is in fact a rabid murdering rapist.
Last time I read the paper, there were more than just your peaceful kind of burglars running around. I'm not sure what fairy tale you're living in, but it does sound very fanciful, indeed.

Generally career criminals want to continue their career. Raping and killing people doesn't help your chances of getting away with burglary.

EDIT: Actually, I live in a country with gun control, which has had only two or three shooting sprees of note. What's the US count?

Generally career criminals want to continue their career. Raping and killing people doesn't help your chances of getting away with burglary.
Fine, but what about the murderers and rapists? ;)

Fine, but what about the murderers and rapists? ;)
I don't think those exist in Gate City.

Fine, but what about the murderers and rapists? ;)

Generally, the police get them.

EDIT: It all boils down to you spoilt people not wanting to give up your lethal toys. THEY'RE DANGEROUS!

I don't think those exist in Gate City.
If only we could all live in such a wonderful utopia.

Generally, the police get them.
Yes, after they murder and rape people! :headbang:

Generally, the police get them.
That's fine. The problem is that to become a murderer or a rapist, one must have committed a murder or a rape. Doesn't it make any sense at all to you that the victims weren't willing accomplices? Does it make any sense, then, that the victims should be able to defend themselves and prevent the murder or rape from happening?

Yes, after they murder and rape people! :headbang:
A person isn't a murderer or rapist until after they've murdered or raped someone :)

EDIT: It all boils down to you spoilt people not wanting to give up your lethal toys. THEY'RE DANGEROUS!
Yes, that's true. They are extraordinarially dangerous.

To criminals. :D

A person isn't a murderer or rapist until after they've murdered or raped someone :)
That is exactly my point!

Yes, that's true. They are extraordinarially dangerous.

To criminals. :D

Bullets don't hurt law abiding citizens? Wow.

INO: You asked me about murderers and rapists... If you shoot someone who's attempting it, you;re not shooting a rapist, you're shooting an attempted rapist. Sorry to be picky. :)

A person isn't a murderer or rapist until after they've murdered or raped someone :)
I think we would prefer to prevent that act from happening by means of self-defense, wouldn't we?

I think we would prefer to prevent that act from happening by means of self-defense, wouldn't we?
Apparently not all of us.

Bullets don't hurt law abiding citizens? Wow.
I don't shoot law abiding citizens. Why, do you?

I think we would prefer to prevent that act from happening by means of self-defense, wouldn't we?

You can do that with a sharp/blunt/heavy/hot/cold object/liquid.

You can do that with a sharp/blunt/heavy/hot/cold object/liquid.
Why is stabbing criminals okay, but not shooting them?

"Freeze! Or I'll...throw icecubes at you!"

Why is stabbing criminals okay, but not shooting them?

You have to have some serious intent behind stabbing someone. It's kind of easy to fire a gun.

EDIT: Eever had a really cold drink thrown in your eyes? Okay, cold was a bad example.

Apparently not all of us.
LOL. I'm not quite sure what the argument is anymore. We're at that stage where the gun-grabber has run out of ideas and it's tough to tell exactly what's going on.

LOL. I'm not quite sure what the argument is anymore. We're at that stage where the gun-grabber has run out of ideas and it's tough to tell exactly what's going on.

Gun-grabber? Oh, that's right, I think that letting everyone have lethal weapons is a bad idea... How silly of me.

You can do that with a sharp/blunt/heavy/hot/cold object/liquid.
I do keep a cauldron of hot oil handy, but I usually keep it in reserve until the sharp sticks are all broken.

I do keep a cauldron of hot oil handy, but I usually keep it in reserve until the sharp sticks are all broken.

Coffee?

LOL. I'm not quite sure what the argument is anymore. We're at that stage where the gun-grabber has run out of ideas and it's tough to tell exactly what's going on.
It usually gets to this point sooner or later, assuming -- as is usually the case -- that the freedom-hater in question hasn't surrendered.

Speaking of which, I converted one of my female friends to the right to bear arms position a couple of weeks ago. I think she was my sixth or seventh convert, but it's always satisfying. :)

It's kind of easy to fire a gun.

Yes, it is. That's one of the reasons it's such an effective weapon.

Tell me, why is it that you would prefer my hypothetical 16-year-old daughter to be raped than for her to deter the would-be rapist by merely pointing a gun at him (which, statisticly speaking, is more than 99% effective)?

Gun-grabber? Oh, that's right, I think that letting everyone have lethal weapons is a bad idea... How silly of me.
Sir, why do you hate freedom?

Gun-grabber? Oh, that's right, I think that letting everyone have lethal weapons is a bad idea... How silly of me.
Face facts. You have completely ignored or dismissed self-defense. A firearm is the most effective method for preventing a crime. It is not even necessary to use that firearm, as the simple display of a weapon will accomplish the goal of preventing a crime from occuring.

Come up with something better than the "use sharp sticks" argument.

I hate freedom because I don't like the idea of ready access to lethal weaponry? If that's true, then sieg heil, pass me the black shirts and goose-step ahoy!

Coffee?
It's 2 AM. I hear the door being kicked in. I grab my espresso machine and steam some milk.

Now there's an effective defense. You have persuaded me that firearms are not necessary in the defense of my life and property. I only need hot milk.

I hate freedom because I don't like the idea of ready access to lethal weaponry? If that's true, then sieg heil, pass me the black shirts and goose-step ahoy!
That's an especially apt analogy. Congratulations! I don't recall Stalin or Hitler promoting gun ownership either.

It's 2 AM. I hear the door being kicked in. I grab my espresso machine and steam some milk.

Now there's an effective defense. You have persuaded me that firearms are not necessary in the defense of my life and property. I only need hot milk.

What the hell? Yeah, loads of rapists go to the trouble of breaking into peoples houses before doing their evil deeds.

That's an especially apt analogy. Congratulations! I don't recall Stalin or Hitler promoting gun ownership either.

Reductio ad Hitlerum!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

What the hell? Yeah, loads of rapists go to the trouble of breaking into peoples houses before doing their evil deeds.
Well I can't use my esspresso machine while walking through the park, can I?

I hate freedom because I don't like the idea of ready access to lethal weaponry? If that's true, then sieg heil, pass me the black shirts and goose-step ahoy!
Yes, that is precisely correct.

That's an especially apt analogy. Congratulations! I don't recall Stalin or Hitler promoting gun ownership either.
I believe it was Himmler who mused that if Germans wanted to shoot guns, they should join the military.

How startlingly similar to Wesley Clark's suggestion that people who "want to play with 'assault weapons'" should join the military.

Well I can't use my esspresso machine while walking through the park, can I?

Behold, my freind (or 'mein freund?'), the miracle of Starbucks. Are you telling me you've never had a take-away coffee?

As for those nazi analogies... Come on, I've called Godwin's Law on this one. Go find another smear.

Oh yes, Of course. I keep a big kettle of hot coffee right next to my bed late at night just incase somebody breaks in to my house. Brilliant.

Get a clue, its been proven that the sound of a shotgun cocking stops almost anybody in their tracks. Why do you think police carry them on raids? Considering they are trained to shoot as a last resort it would make sense that the simple sound of something would be good to prevent that last resort from coming to pass.

Once again people are deciding to put their lives in the hands of their local law enforcement. Once again i state, "Where I Live, there are no police for miles" what good is calling the cops when somebody is breaking in, when i know they wont be there for a minimum of 15 min.

You want to take my stuff? Go ahead and try, your going to have to get through #1 a 12 gauge shotgun, #2 a SigSaur 229 9mm and #3, Me. Pissed off with any variety of the bladed weapons i have in my house.

You think kids will automaticly go to school with a weapon they find to "shoot their classmates" because they got pissed? None of the school shootings have happened with a student that is acually trained in firearms, its always been students that were neglected by their parents or had parents that didnt discipline or pay attention to them.

If YOU dont want to have your household protected and will allow anybody to break in and take/do what they want. By all means, go for it. When you call the cops and they come too late and just find you, your spouse or child murdered, abused or raped... you can say "i didnt want to arm myself, I thought guns were bad and they would just take what they wanted without hurting us" I'm sure you will feel great after that.


Here's a fun situation. Imagine somebody 6'5, 300 lbs all muscle, just got out of jail on parole. He needs to make a quick buck so he breaks into your house thinking your not home. Unfortunatly, you are and he sees you. He knows that if you can ID him, he'll go to jail for a long time for breaking parole. Now, you can either assume that your armed with a gun and can deal with somebody like that going after you, OR your armed with a phone. A= You shoot him. not nessicarily killing him, but stopping him from harming you (if you know how to shoot.. you can acually hit non vital spots! imagine that) Or, You dont shoot him, You have a shotgun. You load it and cock it. he recognizes the sound easily as the same one he heard all that time in jail. He runs like a madman.

B= You call the cops with the phone.. k.. he charges you, pummels you to death and goes out the back before the cops get there (it was a busy night for them.. they only have so many people on at once) He skips state lines, gets a job somewhere far from there and is never seen again. You.. are dead.

The thing about effective gun control is that ideally nobody gets guns. You gun-toting nutters seem to think that it involves stealing your precious boomsticks then handing them over to criminals.

Behold, my freind (or 'mein freund?'), the miracle of Starbucks. Are you telling me you've never had a take-away coffee?
So it comes to this, does it? I ask how to defend myself and out of all the possible answers that don't even involve firearms, such as mace, whistles, tasers, and the like, you tell me to carry a cup of java.

Tall or Grande?

So it comes to this, does it? I ask how to defend myself and out of all the possible answers that don't even involve firearms, such as mace, whistles, tasers, and the like, you tell me to carry a cup of java.

Tall or Grande?

You know, generally it's considered smart to tackle the sensible parts of an argument first.

Behold, my freind (or 'mein freund?'), the miracle of Starbucks. Are you telling me you've never had a take-away coffee?

As for those nazi analogies... Come on, I've called Godwin's Law on this one. Go find another smear.
Didn't you make the first offer to do the goose step?

Didn't you make the first offer to do the goose step?

Yes, in jest. Honest to God, you say I'm the one running out of arguments yet all you've done the past couple of pages is call me a nazi.

You know, generally it's considered smart to tackle the sensible parts of an argument first.
Pal, we're so far past sensible that this isn't going to hold any water. Give up gracefully.

G'night.

The thing about effective gun control is that ideally nobody gets guns. You gun-toting nutters seem to think that it involves stealing your precious boomsticks then handing them over to criminals.

HA.. HAHAHA.. nobody gets guns? good luck with that. Hell. prisioners have made guns by hand out of plumbing parts.

haha.. no guns ever.. thats great.

Of course.. the cops would have guns tho.. the military too. SOO.. if they ever decided that you had done something wrong or somebody psyco gets in charge you have no viable means of defending yourself from their firearms. great.

Oh, so i'm a gun toting inbred redneck now? Right.. i guess that means I could not possably have a BS in computer science.. or make 60K a year doing high end computer networking.

I'm just an inbred redneck.

Do you honestly think a bunch of militia types could stop a modern army?

An assortment of probably experienced marksmen,

vs.

A modern army, with air support, assault weapons, advanced communications and all the bells and whistles of modern warfare.

Hmmm.

_________

So you aren't a redneck.

I doubt I'm a nazi. I've been a (electronic :D) card-carrying socialist for some time. Quit playing the flame-game.

We've seen how effective a bunch of gun toting, experienced gunmen, have been against the american war machine have we not? Insurgents in Iraq ring a bell?

Considering hunters across the nation pretty much know every foot of ground in their area.. i think that a well armed militia would be fairly effective.

We've seen how effective a bunch of gun toting, experienced gunmen, have been against the american war machine have we not? Insurgents in Iraq ring a bell?

Considering hunters across the nation pretty much know every foot of ground in their area.. i think that a well armed militia would be fairly effective.

The insurgents aren't really winning though. They're certainly damaging people's faith in military power, but they aren't achieving their goals.

Someone I now was killed by a registered gun. He was not a criminal and not someone who would get in trouble. I didn't know him well, he was just a neighbor who was mistaken for a drug dealer or something, and he was shot in the back of the head, caught be surprise, according to reports. I know people who carry guns around (again, not friends), and they have gotten into some really dangerous situation because they have guns, and thus considered dangerous. I know, anecdotal info., but knowing that has decided that if there was proper gun control, the world would be a better place.

Not that I know what proper gun control is, or how to enforce it, but it would be great.

Someone I now was killed by a registered gun. He was not a criminal and not someone who would get in trouble. I didn't know him well, he was just a neighbor who was mistaken for a drug dealer or something, and he was shot in the back of the head, caught be surprise, according to reports. I know people who carry guns around (again, not friends), and they have gotten into some really dangerous situation because they have guns, and thus considered dangerous. I know, anecdotal info., but knowing that has decided that if there was proper gun control, the world would be a better place.

Yes. Accidents happen, Stupid mistakes are made. Banning the tool is a stupid way of dealing with it. That would be akin to saying " I had a friend who was hit by a car, the driver thought he was a lightpost till he stepped into the road." and then you try and say that all cars should be banned because of that.

If there were no guns.. like.. if somebody had a genie and they wished "I wish there were no guns" people would still find a way. Before guns there were crossbows. They came from the giant siege balista sized ones down to the little 4-5" pistol sized ones. They were just as deadly as guns and equally easy to use.

Before that, you had small hidden kinves. nothing changes. if you want to protect yourself then you really should stay with the times and at try at least stay even with what the criminals are using against you.

They're certainly damaging people's faith in military power,

By doing that, they are causing people to tell their governments to recall the military. thus, in the end, winning.

Yes. Accidents happen, Stupid mistakes are made. Banning the tool is a stupid way of dealing with it. That would be akin to saying " I had a friend who was hit by a car, the driver thought he was a lightpost till he stepped into the road." and then you try and say that all cars should be banned because of that.
Thats why I said at the end of my post, proper gun control. And people who fire guns at people usually have intent to hurt, not to travel. Thats the difference. Again, I think that guns are a right that people should have, it just should be regulated carefully and effectively.

If there were no guns.. like.. if somebody had a genie and they wished "I wish there were no guns" people would still find a way. Before guns there were crossbows. They came from the giant siege balista sized ones down to the little 4-5" pistol sized ones. They were just as deadly as guns and equally easy to use.

Before that, you had small hidden kinves. nothing changes. if you want to protect yourself then you really should stay with the times and at try at least stay even with what the criminals are using against you.

One of the problems with guns, which dosn't seem as apparent with knives, is the feeling of invincibility. Again, all I have is my opinions based on the people I know, but guns seem to make people, both criminals and good citizens, feel like they can't be harmed/are safe from attack. This attitude seems common; not saying that you are like that or all gun owners are like that.

You know, generally it's considered smart to tackle the sensible parts of an argument first.
The problem being that your argument doesn't have any "sensible" parts.

the Samurai thought themselves invincible as well.

I'm pretty sure knights in full plate armor felt invincible too. Thats a common thing when you think yourself to be holding the strongest deterrent known at the time.

Those who acually train with them, know their limitations and what they are good for.. They are the ones that deserve to own firearms. Yet, thats not going to happen. I agree, there should be some sort of gun control to keep the weapons out of the hands of criminals. But, until you get a system in place akin to the one in "Miniority Report" its not going to happen.

As for sudden things that just happened to be made worse with a gun? If a guy comes home and finds his wife in bed with somebody, yes. he might shoot them with a gun. But, then again he might just pick up a knife or whatever he has laying around and do the same thing. An act of rage is an act of rage.

I've heard of people getting accidentaly shot with guns. i've heard of people getting accidentaly stabbed with knives (i used to work in resturants) It happens.

To be exact, a Sig Navy 226 9mm handgun. I'm dissapointed. I don't want one of THOSE in MY FAMILY! :headbang: I just found this out today so I'm a little dissapointed,hurt, and reeling.











He was supposed to get a glock. :D
Glocks ROCK! Especially the 10mm versions. Post a poll.

nice hand gun, but id prefer the 50 cal. with four snouts ( for the lamers its an anti helicopter gun, with coolent within the nozzeles to disperse the heat so as its unable to be tracket by thermal cameras. To think that this is sitting on the roof....:gundge:

I hate freedom because I don't like the idea of ready access to lethal weaponry? If that's true, then sieg heil, pass me the black shirts and goose-step ahoy!

Nope, but taking other's property because you dislike it does make you a facist.

Real men use this (http://www.emf-company.com/images3/1873-buntline.jpg) for home protection.

LOL! Isn't that the gun that the Joker used to shoot down the Batplane in Tim Burton's Batman?

Anyhow, for the gun grabbers in the thread... How do you figure that banning guns will help reduce violence here?

What has happened is we have a justice system and further, a mindset that everyone and everything is to blame but the person who perpetrated the crime.
There is a shootout, a stray round hits someone, it is the guns fault... Not the gangbangers who were duking it out. Worst thing they get is goto jail for...10 years then out on parole. Maybe they will get out in 4-5 for good behavior. They completely ruin a life and they get off after loosing 5-10-20 years off thiers. If you were serious about reducing violence, how about making some serious penalties for crimes rather than leaving this joke of a system we have in place now?

So, on another note...

For those of us who think it wrong or do not understand the position of those of us who choose to arm ourselves, think of it this way... Why do you have insurance? Chances are you will not need it, but you have it just in case. I choose to carry because I want to ensure I am better armed than any assailant that I encounter. In any case, I hope to never have to use either.

LOL! Isn't that the gun that the Joker used to shoot down the Batplane in Tim Burton's Batman?
That, my dear fellow is the Buline Special I beleive, or something like it.

I prefer either a .44 Magnum or .50AE Desert Eagle, myself, if only because they hurt.

Generally, the police get them.
Hehheheehehhehhahahahahahahhahhahahahahahhahahaaa! Oh damn, that's too fucking funny. *sneers* do you know what the statistics are on rape? At all? Somehow I doubt it. Even murder, when you exclude crimes of passion, which are the majority of cases, doesn't have that good of a track record. Why should innocents be harmed or killed just for the sanctimonious peace of mind that you pursue?

I enjoy my sanctimonious peace of mind.

Broomhandles are best

[B]No. In order to buy a gun you pass an instant background check and that's it. There isn't any licensing, except for IL,NYC, and a few other states. The only license you'll need is if you carry a weapon concealed...thats it.

Is that so? Well thank you for clarifying that for me. When you say 'instant', do you mean like a quick phone call to the FBI or something? I only ask because living in the UK, we're not allowed to have handguns.

However I have noticed that the banning of handguns has yet to reach the attention of the black market. I guess they must have some kind of special exemption...

Is that so? Well thank you for clarifying that for me. When you say 'instant', do you mean like a quick phone call to the FBI or something? I only ask because living in the UK, we're not allowed to have handguns.

However I have noticed that the banning of handguns has yet to reach the attention of the black market. I guess they must have some kind of special exemption...
There is a call in number that the shop will use. NICS is the acronym for it, I believe. It's a painless process that takes about 15 minutes to complete. If you have a concealed carry permit, the process is streamlined in most states, as the background check is done regularly by the state.

Weapon of choice:
Good for general house defense... Garunteed to keep those peskey robbers away... http://www.geocities.com/azrifle/z-mg42.jpg

Anti-gun people should have these signs outside their homes to protest guns.
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/6552/gunfree7cf.jpg


Love the sign:D

*sighs* Hurrah for gun fetishism...

Anyway, I defend my property with one of these beasts, well... with "acceptable force", anyway.

http://www.batandballsports.co.uk/Cricket/Slazenger/Slazenger_V800_Pro_Cricket_Bat.jpg

*sighs* Hurrah for gun fetishism...

Anyway, I defend my property with one of these beasts, well... with "acceptable force", anyway.

http://www.batandballsports.co.uk/Cricket/Slazenger/Slazenger_V800_Pro_Cricket_Bat.jpg
It is a lot harder to miss with a cricket bat. They're cheaper than guns too. And there's no cricket bat control laws to deal with. Blunt objects for the win.

Weapon of choice:
Good for general house defense... Garunteed to keep those peskey robbers away... http://www.geocities.com/azrifle/z-mg42.jpg

Those are neat! I wouldn't want one for home defence, but it would be cool to have more WW2 items laying around the house!

It is a lot harder to miss with a cricket bat. They're cheaper than guns too. And there's no cricket bat control laws to deal with. Blunt objects for the win.

Indeed. And they're stealthier, too. In terms of noise, obviously.

Indeed. And they're stealthier, too. In terms of noise, obviously.
Yup. You won't hear one coming. You might hear it hitting you, but by then it's too late.

Doesn't have to happen more than once my friend.
Maybe you shouldn't leave your secure house at all, then? Only one bad incident has to happen on the outside and BAM! You're paralyzed from the neck down and crazy relatives are dipping into your bank account.

It is a lot harder to miss with a cricket bat. They're cheaper than guns too. And there's no cricket bat control laws to deal with. Blunt objects for the win.
There's a saying that must be too dated for you kids. "Never bring knife to a gunfight" sums up the relative effectiveness of most other weapons. Referring to a gun as an equalizer does the same thing.

Thinking about you trying to defend yourself with a cricket bat reminds me of a scene in one of the Indiana Jones movies. Harrison Ford has just fought off a bunch of guys. Another huge guy with a sword shows up and starts swinging it around. Ford looks at the guy and the sword, pulls out his revolver and shoots the sword-wielder dead.

Get the idea?

Weapon of choice:
Good for general house defense... Garunteed to keep those peskey robbers away... http://www.geocities.com/azrifle/z-mg42.jpg
The newest M60 can be fired a hell of a lot longer though, as well the fact that the box ammo can be linked adds up to much more firepower overall..

It is a lot harder to miss with a cricket bat. They're cheaper than guns too. And there's no cricket bat control laws to deal with. Blunt objects for the win.

They're already working on knives, anything longer than 12" is gonna be illegal and/or require registration. Look at the fuss people over there are making over knives! :headbang:

They're already working on knives, anything longer than 12" is gonna be illegal and/or require registration. Look at the fuss people over there are making over knives! :headbang:

Some of the worst genocides in history were mostly carried out with machetes, e.g. Rwanda.

Love the sign:D

Shouldn't it say unarmed?

Maybe you shouldn't leave your secure house at all, then? Only one bad incident has to happen on the outside and BAM! You're paralyzed from the neck down and crazy relatives are dipping into your bank account.

Erm, why? The odds of something happening to me are fairly low, but there is a chance sure. I am willing to take the risk of getting injured, tis all part of living. And I am willing to take the needed measures to keep myself safe; Learning to drive, avoid accidents as best I can, don't drink from unmarked funny-smelling bottles, don't dive into a lake where I cannot see beneath the water, don't stand in front of the dartboard when my boss is about to throw. Carrying a firearm to increase my option when being assaulted.

I am not willing to just let someone else take my things without an arguement, they didn't earn them, I did. Nor will I allow someone to attack me and not defend myself.

No way I am going to argue with someone like you. We will talk again after your daughter grabs a piece and unloads it at her school mates, or even worst, someone disarms you and kill you with your own gun, after you grasp the meaning of humiliation.

I am a woman, and I am a journalist. I have been under fire several times, I even tried to drag a gunshot photographer out the line of fire once as people were firing against us. I have seen enough gunshots after covering hospitals for several months and after finding unpleasant surprises in the streets of the third world where I live.

I have seen enough of guns, and it looks like I have seen the worst of it. If you think that more violence is going to help fixing the world, fine. You look like you have seen enough of guns too, and yet you are trying to look a "bright" side to it...No idea why.


You seem to have an irrational fear of firearms. Firearms are nothing more than inanimate objects. It is the intention of the operator that can be dangerous. It is also dangerous to be negligent in the storage of firearms (it's actually a crime in Connecticut to leave a firearm without a triggerlock, chamberlock, or safe). My brother in law hunts with firearms, and I SERIOUSLY doubt that his 3 children know where he stores them, let alone the combination to the safe the firearms are stored in.

Before I'm labeled as just another gun nut, keep in mind that I've only shot firearms once in my life (that was during my NRA pistol permit course), and I don't own any firearms at this point (although in 2 weeks, that won't technically be true).

Is that so? Well thank you for clarifying that for me. When you say 'instant', do you mean like a quick phone call to the FBI or something? I only ask because living in the UK, we're not allowed to have handguns.
It's mostly computerized now, and most checks take only a matter of seconds; I think something like 95% are finished in under ten minutes.

Maybe you shouldn't leave your secure house at all, then? Only one bad incident has to happen on the outside and BAM! You're paralyzed from the neck down and crazy relatives are dipping into your bank account.
Yep, and I could be out driving one day and get hit by a Mack truck. That's why I don't wear a seatbelt, because it wouldn't do me any good if that happened.

Yep, and I could be out driving one day and get hit by a Mack truck. That's why I don't wear a seatbelt, because it wouldn't do me any good if that happened.


And it'll slow the paramedics down a bit when they have to cut the belt away before they squeegee you off the floorboards.

Erm, why? The odds of something happening to me are fairly low, but there is a chance sure. I am willing to take the risk of getting injured, tis all part of living. And I am willing to take the needed measures to keep myself safe; Learning to drive, avoid accidents as best I can, don't drink from unmarked funny-smelling bottles, don't dive into a lake where I cannot see beneath the water, don't stand in front of the dartboard when my boss is about to throw. Carrying a firearm to increase my option when being assaulted.

I am not willing to just let someone else take my things without an arguement, they didn't earn them, I did. Nor will I allow someone to attack me and not defend myself.
But you're willing to kill for your things? So, a VCR say, is worth a person's life? And what about non-lethal ways to protect yourself and home? Mace, tazers and such?

I think it's more about shooting things that people like and less about things such as home protection.

Yep, and I could be out driving one day and get hit by a Mack truck. That's why I don't wear a seatbelt, because it wouldn't do me any good if that happened.
Actually, I think it's pretty stupid that not wearing a seatbelt is against the law. But really, it is about as stupid as not wearing your seatbelt.

lol

i thought you were being an anti gun hippy there for a minute

but then again anti gun people never know anything about guns
That you choose to call yourself "Slaughterhouse Five" is a slap in the face of a great author. Just FYI there.

Dingus.

There's a saying that must be too dated for you kids. "Never bring knife to a gunfight" sums up the relative effectiveness of most other weapons. Referring to a gun as an equalizer does the same thing.

Thinking about you trying to defend yourself with a cricket bat reminds me of a scene in one of the Indiana Jones movies. Harrison Ford has just fought off a bunch of guys. Another huge guy with a sword shows up and starts swinging it around. Ford looks at the guy and the sword, pulls out his revolver and shoots the sword-wielder dead.

Get the idea?
I am not a kid, kids are the young of goats. Nor am I a child if that's what you meant. Also I have heard that saying.

You seem to be equating defending your home with a gunfight. I would equate it with a siege.

To defend myself I would have locks on all my doors and windows, and an alarm system. All the bedrooms in the house would also have locks, and my hypothetical family would know to lock them if they thought there was an intruder in the house. The bedrooms would also have a simple blunt weapon, such as a cricket bat, just in case the door was broken down.

If there was a break in, I would wake the rest of my family and tell them to lock their doors. I would then call the police. Following that I would shout to the intruders that I had called the police, the sooner they're out of the house the better.

But you're willing to kill for your things? So, a VCR say, is worth a person's life? And what about non-lethal ways to protect yourself and home? Mace, tazers and such?

I think it's more about shooting things that people like and less about things such as home protection.

If it escalates to the point where my life is threatened. Yes. Otherwise the act of aiming my weapon at the intruder is normally sufficient to get him/her to vacate the premises.

Ex. Back when I was working at a newspaper in California, one of the route drivers came back in after making his deliveries and reported that 3 Chicano's had tried to force him to give up his truck. He was outside the vehicle, it was locked. They were carrying some makeshift weapons, a broken bottle was mentioned. He was not in the best of physical shape, so if they had attacked him, they'd have kicked his ass. Giving up the truck was not an option, it was his means of financial support. Instead, he drew the .45 semi-auto pistol he normally kept in a fanny-pack holster, aimed it and told them to leave. After they made a retreat, he climbed back in the truck and drove off.

All it took was the act of showing you are willing to shoot. The odds of me ever having to pull the trigger are small, but yes, I will if I feel I have to.

Do you honestly think a bunch of militia types could stop a modern army?

An assortment of probably experienced marksmen,

vs.

A modern army, with air support, assault weapons, advanced communications and all the bells and whistles of modern warfare.

Hmmm.

_________

So you aren't a redneck.

I doubt I'm a nazi. I've been a (electronic :D) card-carrying socialist for some time. Quit playing the flame-game.


We could give them hell for quite a while. Especially if the army isn't given the proper ROE (Vietnam) and/or tends to brutalize the population (Afghanistan).

Americans are creative, and if need be we will improvise.

The thing about effective gun control is that ideally nobody gets guns. You gun-toting nutters seem to think that it involves stealing your precious boomsticks then handing them over to criminals.

So hunting is now a no-no? The 2nd amendment allows for the right to keep arms, not only for hunting, but for any purpose really. To give you the tools to hunt thugs in your own home that would harm you and your family.

I should post pictures...this thread is worthless without them.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Does that mention hunting? Are militias formed for the purpose of beating down those bastardly fascist dictators, the deer?

Yep, and I could be out driving one day and get hit by a Mack truck. That's why I don't wear a seatbelt, because it wouldn't do me any good if that happened.

You know, a guy got a Darwin Award because of that attitude...

EDIT: Doh. A post whore is me.

*finishes reading thread*

This is why I'm fucking never going to America. The ones who are afraid of each other, afraid of crime, and willing to become a murderer in order to protect your laptops, iPods, and lifetime supply of kitty litter. :headbang:

If I become famous one day, if I have to go to America, I'll be wearing a bulletproof vest, a big-ass helmet, elbow pads, 5 pairs of leggings, and steel-toed shoes.

:p

*finishes reading thread*

This is why I'm fucking never going to America. The ones who are afraid of each other, afraid of crime, and willing to become a murderer in order to protect your laptops, iPods, and lifetime supply of kitty litter. :headbang:

If I become famous one day, if I have to go to America, I'll be wearing a bulletproof vest, a big-ass helmet, elbow pads, 5 pairs of leggings, and steel-toed shoes.

:p

According to your location you're already in America :p

*finishes reading thread*

This is why I'm fucking never going to America. The ones who are afraid of each other, afraid of crime, and willing to become a murderer in order to protect your laptops, iPods, and lifetime supply of kitty litter. :headbang:

If I become famous one day, if I have to go to America, I'll be wearing a bulletproof vest, a big-ass helmet, elbow pads, 5 pairs of leggings, and steel-toed shoes.

:p

You planning on burglarizing homes?

Don't visit the inner city ghettos, don't commit crime and you should be good to go.

According to your location you're already in America :p

We annexed Newfoundland?

Do you honestly think a bunch of militia types could stop a modern army?

An assortment of probably experienced marksmen,

vs.

A modern army, with air support, assault weapons, advanced communications and all the bells and whistles of modern warfare.

Hmmm.

Hmm, that's funny, because according to the rest of the world, a non well-regulated militia willing to commit suicide attacks is apparently kicking our arse. Given that Americans would be facing the same military, I suppose we wouldn't stand a chance just... because... the rest of the world needs something to point and laugh at.

Does that mention hunting? Are militias formed for the purpose of beating down those bastardly fascist dictators, the deer?

What does that have to do with anything? Hunting takes place all around the world.

Hunting takes place all around the world.
More's the pity.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/ZakkWylde470/trp.jpg


Hehe, j/k. Honestly, the thing that I don't like about the Glock is the gap between the frame and the slide. It looks (to me, anyway) like the frame is flexing just a bit. Maybe if that can be remedied, I'll find myself with a Glock 17L.

Well, that's easy. Keep the metal frames for public. Get the Glocks for the kitchen. :D

We could give them hell for quite a while. Especially if the army isn't given the proper ROE (Vietnam) and/or tends to brutalize the population (Afghanistan).

Americans are creative, and if need be we will improvise.

Considering a band of Americans managed to whoop up on the most powerful army in the world yes, we could give any army hell.

Actually, I think it's pretty stupid that not wearing a seatbelt is against the law. But really, it is about as stupid as not wearing your seatbelt.
Exactly, because while driving a car is inherently dangerous, wearing a seatbelt can help mitigate the danger -- just as carrying a sidearm can help mitigate the danger inherent to leaving one's house.

Exactly, because while driving a car is inherently dangerous, wearing a seatbelt can help mitigate the dangerous -- just as carrying a sidearm can help mitigate the dangerous inherent to leaving one's house.

Just playing devil's advocate, but you can kill people with guns, not seatbelts.

Well, I probably could kill someone a few ways with a seatbelt, but that's a whole different story... :)

Just playing devil's advocate, but you can kill people with guns, not seatbelts.
Yeah, that's why carrying a seatbelt for the purpose of self-defense is a stupid idea. ;)

Yeah, that's why carrying a seatbelt for the purpose of self-defense is a stupid idea. ;)

Not if you're good with a whip. :D

And I'm still quite happy without a gun. Not only does no one in my neighbourhood own a gun (presumably), but none of the criminals around here seem to own one either (presumably).
Same here, but others are not so fortunate, apparently.

No, a pistol is meant to end a situation that someone else begins.

No, a pistol is meant for putting holes in things when you just don't have the time for a drill.

I am amazed as people are happily comparing lethal weapons meant for killing other sentient beings.
Oh please stop with the self-righteous morality bullshit.

People? No. Hope I never have to, but that's why I have it. Only time I would is if I was in danger and the perp needed to be ventilated. It's not as if I'm walking around rambo style looking for someone to threaten me.
Hey, is that you, ARF-COM?

Your money may not be worth dying for, but your dignity is.
Dunno about dignity, but my hands are certainly worth killing for!


2.- Dignity? You can keep your dignity easily by talking. I am a woman, I have my dignity some times even more compromised daily, and it doesn't prevent me for doing so. My brothers and father own a lot of guns, and it doesn't help them either.
Are you trying to tell him that because you don't want a gun, he should have one either?

All these gun debates remind me of the gay marriage debates. People want to ban guns because they're "immoral", they want to ban them and said "hey you have the same rights as me (the right to marry someone of the opposite sex), and I do fine!"

Pity some people are so inconsistent.

Home Owner:'Here, leave my laptop and take this solid gold Buddha'
Robber:'Sounds good'
HO:*throws Buddha at R's head*
R:Wuh*unconscious*
HO:'That's right bitch. Fear the Buddha'
"All life is suffering and I am the bringer of pain."

Real men use this (http://www.emf-company.com/images3/1873-buntline.jpg) for home protection.

The longer the pistol, the shorter the gun.

Does that mention hunting? Are militias formed for the purpose of beating down those bastardly fascist dictators, the deer?
Someone needs to go back to remedial grammar. The first half of that sentence is subordinate to the second. This means the second half is not reliant on the first for it's existence. Not to mention that a motion to add 'for the common defense' after 'shall not be infringed' was shot down when the BoR was being created.

No, a pistol is meant for putting holes in things when you just don't have the time for a drill.

Pistols have longer range than the drill ...but this is a good one ...I may have to bumper sticker it .



The longer the pistol, the shorter the gun.

one is for pleasure one is for fun .:D

All these gun debates remind me of the gay marriage debates. People want to ban guns because they're "immoral", they want to ban them and said "hey you have the same rights as me (the right to marry someone of the opposite sex), and I do fine!"

Pity some people are so inconsistent.

If only more people had your clarity of vision. People on both sides of the "gun issue" are so firmly entrenched in their opinion it's almost religious in nature.

Europeans here seem absolutely perplexed as to why Americans don't view guns the same way they do. It's a different culture, and Americans are not going to view guns the way that Europeans do. It's not a matter of America having a younger culture, it's a matter of a different culture.

As for me, I do own a gun, but it's locked up unless I'm taking it target shooting. But then, having a gun here is no more remarkable (in fact, probably less so) than owning a set of golf clubs. I find how Europeans attach such stigma to guns perplexing, but I don't really care that they do that. In fact, I'd like to move to Europe for at least a few years, and I accept that I won't be able to have any guns since European culture doesn't accept them.

*finishes reading thread*

This is why I'm fucking never going to America. The ones who are afraid of each other, afraid of crime, and willing to become a murderer in order to protect your laptops, iPods, and lifetime supply of kitty litter. :headbang:

If I become famous one day, if I have to go to America, I'll be wearing a bulletproof vest, a big-ass helmet, elbow pads, 5 pairs of leggings, and steel-toed shoes.

:p

We aren't afraid of crime, we just aren't willing to go easy on criminals. And self-defense is not murder. The majority of people here in the U.S. don't spend time being afraid of others, so I don't know where you get that. You have seriously stilted view of Americans, don't you?

Steel-toed shoes? Who are you planning on kicking the crap out of?

*finishes reading thread*

This is why I'm fucking never going to America. The ones who are afraid of each other, afraid of crime, and willing to become a murderer in order to protect your laptops, iPods, and lifetime supply of kitty litter. :headbang:

If I become famous one day, if I have to go to America, I'll be wearing a bulletproof vest, a big-ass helmet, elbow pads, 5 pairs of leggings, and steel-toed shoes.

:p

First off, self defence isn't murder. Second off, if someone breaks into my home, I'm going to defend myself with whatever force necessary to make sure I survive. Since I don't have the ability to read peoples minds, I don't know this intruders true intentions (he may just want my TV, but he may be a homicidal maniac). If showing him the business end of a firearm scares him into getting out of my house, I win. If it doesn't, then I guess his intentions were a bit more nefarious.

The problem I find with keeping guns for home defense, is that since everyone around where I live keeps waaay too many guns, the robbers tend to be really cautious and only break in when they know that no one is home. My house has been broken into twice, and I wasn't around to shoot them either time.

Other than that, though, I don't notice much crime here. I live in the northwest part of northwest Washington, out in the countryside, which is populated mostly by a lot of rednecks with enough weaponry to arm a small country...

Edit: Oh yeah, and actually shooting someone is usually unnecessary. Most people realize that the chance to take someone's wallet is not worth being shot.

Just playing devil's advocate, but you can kill people with guns, not seatbelts.

Well, I probably could kill someone a few ways with a seatbelt, but that's a whole different story... :)

I have to say, there is a number of fun-filled ways to dispatch someone with a car seatbelt... :D


I really need to refrain from vodka when I post!

I have to say, there is a number of fun-filled ways to dispatch someone with a car seatbelt... :D


I really need to refrain from vodka when I post!

C'mon, at least mention one or two?:D

C'mon, at least mention one or two?:D

Strangling, for one. And that has hanging, behind-the-seat kind like the mafia, etc. Suffocation (stuffing it down their throat).

There's two. :D

To be exact, a Sig Navy 226 9mm handgun. I'm dissapointed. I don't want one of THOSE in MY FAMILY! :headbang: I just found this out today so I'm a little dissapointed,hurt, and reeling.











He was supposed to get a glock. :D
Damn you!!!
How can i make fun of you now?

I am an anti-gun hippy person. Hello all :)
Peace and love :)

Damned hippy's! :D

Grow up you little pinko hippy. :rolleyes:

Grow up you little pinko hippy. :rolleyes:

Yes, because everyone who doesn't think we should all be armed is a communist. Communists hate guns. And of course, anyone holding a different view then you must be young or immatures.

Your powers of deduction astound me.

I'd take that Sig over the Glock any day my friend. Happy shooting. I'm more of .45 fan. I find that the 9mm doesn't have stopping power but even so tends to over penetrate. Ugly round really. I'm currently shooting a new USP.

Now the USP, that's a fine piece of firearm right there :)

my GLOCK is .45 acp

Nice.

Not all Glocks are pea shootere :p

Yes, because everyone who doesn't think we should all be armed is a communist. Communists hate guns. And of course, anyone holding a different view then you must be young or immatures.

Your powers of deduction astound me.

Hey, I never said Communist. Some of them have the sense to support guns.

but a .45 will do enough blunt trauma his vest won't matter besides I take head shots :D

A .40 isn't going to poke holes in body armour like a Five-seveN. ;)

Should I post pics of my new rifle? Yea or nay?


ETA: If I ever found out someone shot me with a 9mm or 5.7 I'd be pretty pissed.

My views on those two calibers.

Do have any good stuff because if I start a life of crime I'm robbing YOU first.

You have to have some serious intent behind stabbing someone. It's kind of easy to fire a gun.

EDIT: Eever had a really cold drink thrown in your eyes? Okay, cold was a bad example.

I say thee yea. Show it DM.

Need a assistant there Shabaz? I'll drive.......

Should I post pics of my new rifle? Yea or nay?


ETA: If I ever found out someone shot me with a 9mm or 5.7 I'd be pretty pissed.

My views on those two calibers.

DO IT!


Here's what I'll be picking up on the 3rd (the only reason for the wait is I have no pistol permit yet): http://www.rbprecision.com/312e6ba0.png

It is the complete lower with stock.

Hey, I never said Communist. Some of them have the sense to support guns.

Communist = power comes from the barrell of a gun .

"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." ~Mao Tse Tung, "Selected Works of Mao Zedong"


see that GUNS are good .:D

We'd get free coffee ! :)
I say thee yea. Show it DM.

Need a assistant there Shabaz? I'll drive.......

DO IT!


Here's what I'll be picking up on the 3rd (the only reason for the wait is I have no pistol permit yet): http://www.rbprecision.com/312e6ba0.png

It is the complete lower with stock.

You animal! I'm in the process of getting a stripped STAG lower. Pretty much an RRA rebadged with CMT's own logo. I will probably get an RRA 20" 5.56 chamber barrel for it if I can find one-last time I checked RRA didn't make a 5.56 chambered 20" A2 upper.

I'd love to make an SPR type rifle...accurate and tosses heavier bullets such as the 77 grain bullets.

Communist = power comes from the barrell of a gun .
On with the Revolution my Communist brethren!

( I did not just say that :eek: )

Communist = power comes from the barrell of a gun .



see that GUNS are good .:D

Only in the hands of the gov't

You animal! I'm in the process of getting a stripped STAG lower. Pretty much an RRA rebadged with CMT's own logo. I will probably get an RRA 20" 5.56 chamber barrel for it if I can find one-last time I checked RRA didn't make a 5.56 chambered 20" A2 upper.

I'd love to make an SPR type rifle...accurate and tosses heavier bullets such as the 77 grain bullets.

I'm still trying to decide whether to pick up a 16" barreled upper or 20" barreled upper. I'll probably have to buy it new though, because CT has a state AWB that almost mirrors the federal ban (the only difference is we can have high cap mags), unless I can find a used upper that has a permanently attached muzzle brake and no bayonet lug.

I'm still trying to decide whether to pick up a 16" barreled upper or 20" barreled upper. I'll probably have to buy it new though, because CT has a state AWB that almost mirrors the federal ban (the only difference is we can have high cap mags), unless I can find a used upper that has a permanently attached muzzle brake and no bayonet lug.

20" barreled upper. Longer fragmentation range, longer sight radius, higher velocity, and well balanced.

Of course I like AKs more...but I still like ARs. If only the military would go ahead and adopt the 6.8SPC things would be so much better for the grunts.

Hey, I never said Communist. Some of them have the sense to support guns.

Unless I am mistaken, that is what pinko generally refers to. I've always ever heard it as calling someone a communist.

Some guys tested a bunch of common calibers on a buick some time ago. 9mm and 40 both had a bit of deflection when being shot through glass. 45 has almost nil. 5.56, 7.62x39, and 308 will both eat a car like nobody's business. The 5.7 doesn't even penetrate the first door .

Okay, so then I guess it's divine truth.

Have you ever actually done any of this yourself, you know, first hand experience? Bullet quality is going to have a big effect on what it will do. Yes, typically .45 FMJ will deflect and fragment less than smaller bullets. It has more mass and thus higher inertia, but it will still deflect. Bottom line all calibers will lose accuracy, and past 20 feet, most pistol calibers would likely not hit the intended target. *edit - I meant this for shooting through typical 1/4 inch glass. The stupid quote didn't pull all the text I was refering to.

As far as shooting through cars, you have to take into account the type of ammo, as well as the moving parts and mouldings on a door. I'll tell you right now that .223 will not reliably pentrate a door. .223 loves to fragment, especially the widely available 55grain. SS109 which has the steel core, or another AP variation should penetrate, because that's the point, penetration of light armor. .308 will of course go through one side, whatever is in the way, and back out. .308 will go through light and medium kevlar armor like it isn't there. 7.62x39 will typically go through a vest after hitting sheet metal usually fragmenting (7.62x39 generally has a cheaply made bullet). It is usually still effective at that point. If I had my pick, and I had to stop a terrorist driving a car bomb, give me the long proven .308.

I am an anti-gun hippy person. Hello all :)
Peace and love :)
http://www.lifelibertyetc.com/Images/Products/ptsf_patches_02.jpg

Okay, so then I guess it's divine truth.

Have you ever actually done any of this yourself, you know, first hand experience? Bullet quality is going to have a big effect on what it will do. Yes, typically .45 FMJ will deflect and fragment less than smaller bullets. It has more mass and thus higher inertia, but it will still deflect. Bottom line all calibers will lose accuracy, and past 20 feet, most pistol calibers would likely not hit the intended target.

As far as shooting through cars, you have to take into account the type of ammo, as well as the moving parts and mouldings on a door. I'll tell you right now that .223 will not reliably pentrate a door. .223 loves to fragment, especially the widely available 55grain. SS109 which has the steel core, or another AP variation should penetrate, because that's the point, penetration of light armor. .308 will of course go through one side, whatever is in the way, and back out. .308 will go through light and medium kevlar armor like it isn't there. 7.62x39 will typically go through a vest after hitting sheet metal usually fragmenting (7.62x39 generally has a cheaply made bullet). It is usually still effective at that point. If I had my pick, and I had to stop a terrorist driving a car bomb, give me the long proven .308.


BUICK O TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:D

I use a 15cm tin of beans in a sock, it's got excellent stopping power, penetrates glass and works even better in cold weather.

Unless I am mistaken, that is what pinko generally refers to. I've always ever heard it as calling someone a communist.
I always thought it referred more to hippies.

I always thought it referred more to hippies.

Aye, to equate them with communists. Reds and pinkos. Commies light. Also, pink is a more wussy color then red.

I use a 15cm tin of beans in a sock, it's got excellent stopping power, penetrates glass and works even better in cold weather.

But is it accurate at 20ft ;-)

Sock full of quarters, nickles, pennies, half dollars, pretty much any metal disks, works well also.

Aye, to equate them with communists. Reds and pinkos. Commies light. Also, pink is a more wussy color then red.

I credit most Communists with a proper understanding of their doctrines; Hippies are another story.