NationStates Jolt Archive

I like the theory of communism. Everybody is equal, everybody leads the same lifestyles, everybody is as good as each other. But do you communists out there actually belief some of this? Do you class yourselves as equals to rapists, murderers, terrorists, thieves, conmen and George Bush? Can you actually say that everyone is equal?

Well, what they really mean is everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.

Well, what they really mean is everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.

I was going to include that but I thought I'd leave someone else to say it.

Just because some people are criminals or George Bush doesn't mean that they're inherently inferior creatures. That they are is just a comforting little lie that we tell ourselves to raise ourselves above such people so as not to be "guilty by association" in our own eyes.

So yes, despite their harmful actions, I am equal with rapists, murderers, terrorists, thieves, conmen and even George Bush, and so are you.

The basic premise of Communism is equality as far as money is concerned.
In society there are certain "anti-social" individuls, these people have as much right to be economically equal as anyone.

Although not a Communist in real life, I believe that Communism would work in an ideal world

That said, we don't live in an ideal world:P

To the topic starter: There is no unanimity among "Communists" at all. There are so many types it's almost ridiculous. You've got Marxists, Leninists, Marxist-Leninists, Stalinists, anarchist-communists, Trotskyists, Luxemburgists, Titoists, Maoists, juche-ists, etc.

Everybody is equal,

Yes.

everybody leads the same lifestyles,

No, most definitely not. That would be boring. I will lead my sinful and hedonistic lifestyle, but if you want to lead a puritanical fundamentalist lifestyle, you have that capability, too.

everybody is as good as each other.

Assuming this means moral egalitarianism, yes.

But do you communists out there actually belief some of this? Do you class yourselves as equals to rapists, murderers, terrorists, thieves, conmen and George Bush? Can you actually say that everyone is equal?

Yes, I do. I may be a better person morally than George Bush (because I don't make a habit of invading other countries, not because I'm some sort of saint), but fundamentally we have the same instrinsic moral value.

I like the theory of communism. Everybody is equal, everybody leads the same lifestyles, everybody is as good as each other. But do you communists out there actually belief some of this? Do you class yourselves as equals to rapists, murderers, terrorists, thieves, conmen and George Bush? Can you actually say that everyone is equal?

Nope, that's not the theory of communism. I had a lot of mandatory training in the stuff, and the theory is very explicit that some people are more equal than others (what do you think terms like "proletariat's vanguard" mean?!). Much more equal. And some people get to decide what lifestyles other people lead. So those decision makers accumulate more power than possible under any other system of government. And human nature being what it is, they inevitably abuse their power on a horrific scale - ya know, like feeding people to crocodiles (Cambodian Commies did that). In other words, even in theory communism is all about genocide. In practice, of course, it's the same. And there's no way around it even in theory - once you abolish private property and centralize the economy, you achieve a tremendous concentration of power in the hands of the few.

All people are not equal. Get over it.

The problem with Communism is that it makes the assumption that people are inherently good, and that society corrupts the individual, turning them into rapists, murderers, and occasionally Bush. The reason that capitalism won the cold war is that capitalism thrives on the greed inherent in human nature. Greed is a survival instinct. While it is true that people can be good, they have to be taught to be good, or decide to be good on their own.

Edit: and i mean the basic philosophies, not necesarily soviet communism or others.

Although not a Communist in real life, I believe that Communism would work in an ideal world

No, it would not. Unless, of course, by "ideal world" you mean a world inhabited by creatures other than homo sapiens, utterly incapable of doing any evil. As I said above, communism means huge concentration of power in very few hands, and people with such absolute power will inevitably abuse it because they are, well, people.

I like the theory of communism. Everybody is equal, everybody leads the same lifestyles, everybody is as good as each other. But do you communists out there actually belief some of this? Do you class yourselves as equals to rapists, murderers, terrorists, thieves, conmen and George Bush? Can you actually say that everyone is equal?

Yeah.

And i've heard this one before, in the vein of "OMG SO YOUR (sic) EQUAL TO HITLER?!?!?1111!"

- although Revasser has pre-empted my POV, I see.

Nope, that's not the theory of communism. I had a lot of mandatory training in the stuff, and the theory is very explicit that some people are more equal than others (what do you think terms like "proletariat's vanguard" mean?!).

You're thinking of Leninism, and an authoritarian interpretation of Leninism at that, not all forms of Communism.

And some people get to decide what lifestyles other people lead.

Why?

So those decision makers accumulate more power than possible under any other system of government.

Not if the population is the major player in government - as it is supposed to be, even in the traditional Marxist dictatorship of the proletariat.

And there's no way around it even in theory - once you abolish private property and centralize the economy, you achieve a tremendous concentration of power in the hands of the few.

Only if you put that power in the hands of the few, which no serious Communists today advocate.

And human nature being what it is, they inevitably abuse their power on a horrific scale - ya know, like feeding people to crocodiles (Cambodian Commies did that).

As inherently evil as human nature is, I disagree that it is inevitable that Communist leaders feed people to large, carnivorous reptiles. People still have a choice. Is it not possible to have a Communist state where the actual desire of the state's rulers is to ensure that each person is fundamentally equal - socially, economically, etc.? I mean, what if, instead of killing 10 million people, Stalin actually wanted everyone in Russia to be happy?

Idealistic? Yes. Impossible? Well, probably, but it sounds good. But if that's not Communism, then what do you call that?

No person is born a criminal. You don't have to be a "communist" to understand that we are all humans.