NationStates Jolt Archive

Where did all the leftist terrorist go? I know there must be some I'm not thinking of, or haven't heard about. Where are the days of the RAF and the red scare? I know Chavez leans socialist but as far as I've seen he actually has no links to terrorism that can be proven and his human right record might not be great but it is not a stand out bad one either. So I consider him more of just an outspoken president.

I'm so sick of all the rightist bullshit I want some balance. So tell me, is the left dead or just sleeping?

They either accomplished what they wanted, died, or are taking a nap.

Terrorism gets you nowhere. Maybe leftist terrorists just got smart. Unless you consider ELF and such to be leftists. They're as dumb as ever.

Some people call the Palestinians left wing, for some reason. So them, I suppose.

But yeah, there aren't many left-wing terrorists.

Umm...wouldn't be surprised if we got some leftist rebels in the US one o these days...

They discovered cannabis.

Maybe the leftist terrorists got what they wanted, and now they're rightists because they don't want what they accomplished to change, perhaps :confused:

We leftists have cut back on terrorism. We have a thing called compassion, after all.

Maybe the leftist terrorists got what they wanted, and now they're rightists because they don't want what they accomplished to change, perhaps :confused:

Haha God I hope not.

Umm...wouldn't be surprised if we got some leftist rebels in the US one o these days...

Sometimes I'm shocked that we don't have any right now, considering how far right-of-center the US has moved in the last ten years.

perhaps with the fall of the ussr and other such leftist states they don't have the finances to carry on.

They discovered cannabis.

or this :D

Umm...wouldn't be surprised if we got some leftist rebels in the US one o these days...

There is no past moderate left in the US. Someone go ahead and present some case to the contrary I'd like to see it.

We leftists have cut back on terrorism. We have a thing called compassion, after all.

Indeed. Leftism is about equality and helping your fellow man/woman. Rightism is more about one-upping your enemies and making money and such.

For this reason, Leftists have no real use for terrorism. Rightists do.

Simple, they realised they weren't hard enough to compete with nationalist terrorists and religious terrorists.

The leftists are very ineffective. They can't even blow things up properly. :p

Anarchists from various nations, the IRA are among the only ones I can name off hand who still exist. I'm sure there are more.

perhaps with the fall of the ussr and other such leftist states they don't have the finances to carry on.


Or perhaps the perversion of such states destroyed faith in the ideals. Or maybe the western capitalist propaganda worked better than anyone could have imagined.

The leftists are very ineffective. They can't even blow things up properly. :p

In Soviet Russia, you kill the bomb :p

Terrorism gets you nowhere.


coughNorthernIrelandcough

Indeed. Leftism is about equality and helping your fellow man/woman. Rightism is more about one-upping your enemies and making money and such.

For this reason, Leftists have no real use for terrorism. Rightists do.

While I understand where you are coming from this really doesn't hold water. Trotsky invented the idea of having soldiers in the rear of the army to kill deserters, it was later borrowed by Stalin.

A main tenant of many leftist ideology is violent revolution to bring down the "haves". Of course in modern day this ideology seems to have largely changed so I can see what you mean in that respect.

The point though is just because you believe in bringing up the bottom majority doesn't mean you aren't willing to kill those in opposition.

coughNorthernIrelandcough
Oh yeah, that's right. England is out of Northern Ireland now. Oh, wait, no they're not.

Or perhaps the perversion of such states destroyed faith in the ideals. Or maybe the western capitalist propaganda worked better than anyone could have imagined.

could be, but as far as i know organisations such as the red brigade (or guard, can't remember) were fairly active in germany even until the wall came down.

The Leftists have been the most successful in the war against America. Bush and his Republican cohorts are Leftists who are involved in a plot to kill brown people, and they are allied with the Democrats in a plot against America.

You can take it back, however, by joining the Constitution Party (http://www.constitutionparty.org/) and fighting for a rebirth of freedom.

Where did all the leftist terrorist go?
Some are here. (http://www.guerrillagardening.org/)

Oh yeah, that's right. England is out of Northern Ireland now. Oh, wait, no they're not.

Correct, but we do have the LA now, which is a direct result of the terrorism of past years.

could be, but as far as i know organisations such as the red brigade (or guard, can't remember) were fairly active in germany even until the wall came down.

"until the wall came down" being the key factor there. Until the USSR perverted communism and wasted their country's money on arms showing the most successful leftist state couldnt' manage itself. Or until the capitalist west Germany absorbed the leftist east.

Where did all the leftist terrorist go? I know there must be some I'm not thinking of, or haven't heard about. Where are the days of the RAF and the red scare? I know Chavez leans socialist but as far as I've seen he actually has no links to terrorism that can be proven and his human right record might not be great but it is not a stand out bad one either. So I consider him more of just an outspoken president.

I'm so sick of all the rightist bullshit I want some balance. So tell me, is the left dead or just sleeping?
They were either successfully crushed by right-wing governments, or the collapse of the USSR and Eastern Bloc killed their inspiration, so they shrivelled away.

Some are here. (http://www.guerrillagardening.org/)
This is not terrorism, or even vandalism.

They were either successfully crushed by right-wing governments, or the collapse of the USSR and Eastern Bloc killed their inspiration, so they shrivelled away.

Are we counting the PKK as terrorists for the sake of this discussion or not? Certainly the British government consider them as such.

Correct, but we do have the LA now, which is a direct result of the terrorism of past years.
What's the LA? I don't keep up on the Northern Ireland situation.

The New Red Faction is a leftist terrorist nation who have attacked places and done damage.

What's the LA?

Legislative Assembly.

I don't keep up on the Northern Ireland situation.

Yet you see fit to argue about it on the net.

Maybe Hugo Chavezism will spread throughout Latin America and there will be a new leftist revolution. Or maybe the US will just kill him like he claims.

The New Red Faction is a leftist terrorist nation who have attacked places and done damage.

Is this a cybernations nation or something or are you serious.

How'z about them Maoist rebels in Nepal? They are most certainly not the nicest of folks - accused of human rights violations and the like. On that note, the Shining Path and the guerillas in Colombia (forgot the name) also come to mind.

Though many of those groups are more of an insurgency than a terrorist network. Nepal especially, it's more of a civil war than a campaign of terrorism.

Legislative Assembly.



Yet you see fit to argue about it on the net.
Not too often, and not in great depth. The only times I can remember touching on it were when it was brought up in discussions on islamist terrorism to show that christians commit terrorist acts as well.

Sorry for my ignorance, but whats a cybernation?

Sorry for my ignorance, but whats a cybernation?

A website like Nationstates except the nations can actually go to war, trade, purchase nukes, and all that good stuff. Less forum talking and more actually gameplay type game.

But yea what are you talking about the New red faction I didn't see anything about them online.

http://www.nationstates.net/46557/page=display_nation/nation=the_new_red_faction

Go there, its their nation. I believe the attacked Deltara once and they attacked me.

The leftists are very ineffective. They can't even blow things up properly. :p

Maybe because they are the only one to have compassion.

Maybe because they are the only one to have compassion.

*spews Coke out nose*

Maybe because they are the only one to have compassion.

Maybe because they just repeat rhetoric instead of actually thinking?

http://www.nationstates.net/46557/page=display_nation/nation=the_new_red_faction

Go there, its their nation. I believe the attacked Deltara once and they attacked me.
Oh for God's sake....this is about RL terrorists! NS General is not for roleplay!

Maybe because they just repeat rhetoric instead of actually thinking?

You mean like denouncing an entire spectrum of politics and all movments associated with it without any arguments in an online forum? Like that kind of rhetoric without thought or something else?

"until the wall came down" being the key factor there. Until the USSR perverted communism and wasted their country's money on arms showing the most successful leftist state couldnt' manage itself. Or until the capitalist west Germany absorbed the leftist east.

the ussr perverted communism long, long before the wall came down.

the ussr perverted communism long, long before the wall came down.

Long before it went up, for that matter.

http://www.nationstates.net/46557/page=display_nation/nation=the_new_red_faction

Go there, its their nation. I believe the attacked Deltara once and they attacked me.

Small:

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/532327/2/istockphoto_532327_toy_cow.jpg

Far Away:

http://static.flickr.com/30/50000922_7d8be74bd0_m.jpg

the ussr perverted communism long, long before the wall came down.

I didn't say it didn't. The perversion culminated when the wall fell and the USSR failed. Lots of governments pervert things but it doesn't matter because they don't fail.

Where are the leftist terrorists? In Nepal, in India, in Peru, in Colombia... even here in Russia, several years go there was a bunch of idiots led by a girl wth an alias 'No Future' (the alias was in English). They tried to blow up some grave... :rolleyes:

They're running South Africa...

Sometimes I'm shocked that we don't have any right now, considering how far right-of-center the US has moved in the last ten years.

Are you crazy? US economic policy has been drifting left ever since Reagan left office.

They're running South Africa...

And Zimbabwe.

Long before it went up, for that matter.
indeed

I didn't say it didn't. The perversion culminated when the wall fell and the USSR failed. Lots of governments pervert things but it doesn't matter because they don't fail.
not yet anyway...

And Zimbabwe.
Ah yes, my country's rolemodel. How fitting.

The RAF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_Armee_Fraktion) comes to mind (and it surprises me that that wasn't immediately obvious).

But yes, I heard a soundbite from a US White House press conference yesterday, and he said that they would put embargoes on Chavez for "having links with a regime that supports terrorists" (hint: they mean Cuba).

Now, you can throw all sorts of things at Castro and they'll probably be true - but which terrorists does he support?

Maybe because they are the only one to have compassion.
I'm sick of socialism being portrayed as politicised altruism or some shit. It's not. It's about ruthlessly standing up for working-class self-interest.

The RAF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_Armee_Fraktion) comes to mind (and it surprises me that that wasn't immediately obvious).

Yes, but not currently active, therefore not previously mentioned here, no?

Yes, but not currently active, therefore not previously mentioned here, no?
Probably not.

How about the Tamil Tigers then?

Maybe leftists dont want to resort to that?

They're running South Africa...
Yes, the ANC has roots in socialist terrorism, but they are no longer terrorist.

Are you crazy? US economic policy has been drifting left ever since Reagan left office.
What? Income taxes are higher, yes, but trade is more free.

And Zimbabwe.
Indeed (since Mugabe actually does use pseudo-terrorist tactics). Which leads to the question, can governments ever be described as terrorist?

Are terrorist groups non-governmental by definition?

Are terrorist groups non-governmental by definition?

Absolutely not. Terrorists are those who willfully cause terror. It's a pretty descriptive term.

Absolutely not. Terrorists are those who willfully cause terror. It's a pretty descriptive term.

Ergo UK bomber command were terrorists, as were the Luftwaffe and the US Air Corps.*


* if I remember their correct name during WWII.

Absolutely not. Terrorists are those who willfully cause terror. It's a pretty descriptive term.
In that case you could describe almost every military that has ever fought a total war as "terrorist". The term would lose meaning if it were so general.

In that case you could describe almost every military that has ever fought a total war as "terrorist". The term would lose meaning if it were so general.

Personally I find the term 'paramilitary' a lot more useful than the term 'terrorist'.

They discovered cannabis.


"Umm, dude. What the heck, I forgot"

In that case you could describe almost every military that has ever fought a total war as "terrorist". The term would lose meaning if it were so general.

We could limit the term to those who seek to cause terror among non-military targets.

But really, my point is that their sole (or primary) goal is to cause terror. And yes, that would certainly apply to some aspects of major wars.

Stuka divebombers were designed to cause terror, but they were also designed to blow stuff up. If they were going after military or industrial targets, whether they were involved in terrorism is debateable.

We could limit the term to those who seek to cause terror among non-military targets.

But really, my point is that their sole (or primary) goal is to cause terror. And yes, that would certainly apply to some aspects of major wars.

Stuka divebombers were designed to cause terror, but they were also designed to blow stuff up. If they were going after military or industrial targets, whether they were involved in terrorism is debateable.

If they were targetting civilians in the express hope of causing terror and panic they would then be classified as terrorists by you?

Ergo UK bomber command were terrorists, as were the Luftwaffe and the US Air Corps.*


* if I remember their correct name during WWII.

Stuka divebombers were designed to cause terror, but they were also designed to blow stuff up. If they were going after military or industrial targets, whether they were involved in terrorism is debateable.
Islamist bombs are also designed to blow stuff up! Powers on all sides in WWII had tactics to terrorise civilians. Especially those fighting on the European Eastern front. Were they all terrorists?

Where did all the leftist terrorist go?
Maybe it was all just manipulative bullshit, designed and implemented by corrupt US regimes to scare westerners from a natural evolution towards Socialism.

There is no past moderate left in the US. Someone go ahead and present some case to the contrary I'd like to see it.

Look in the animal rights and earth first camps for leftist terrorists

I have watched loose change and several other videos on 9/11 and havnt heard anything about Jews can someone please post a link for a video that suggests this

Look in the animal rights and earth first camps for leftist terrorists
Eek. Monkey-wrenching earth-movers. Causing temporary losses of capital. Oh n0es!

leftist terrorists are mostly a figment of right wing terrorist's immaginations. try to remember it is mostly the so called conservatives who are the hawks and the so called liberals who tend to favor pacifism.

obviously there are exceptions, which is why i said mostly.
point is, when someone picks up a gun and points it at someone, or sends them a letter bomb or what have you, i for one, at that point stop seeing them as 'leftist' in any sense of the word.

and sorry meoist or any one else who points guns or bombs at anyone, with or without doing so in the name of some existing nation, whoever does, when ever they do, they loose my enthusiasm for them or whatever excuse they may claim for doing so. that goes for both, or all, sides, when all are doing so.

=^^=
.../\...

I have watched loose change and several other videos on 9/11 and havnt heard anything about Jews can someone please post a link for a video that suggests this

A video about jews? No problem:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0792154649/104-2772290-4168738?v=glance&n=130

Eek. Monkey-wrenching earth-movers. Causing temporary losses of capital. Oh n0es!

Corpse desecrating, firebomb making, death threat issueing so-called animal lovers. Makes me ashamed to be a vegan.

Some are here. (http://www.guerrillagardening.org/)
I would be into something like that.

Thats right. The Right Wing Conservatives are much better at it...

http://www.awitness.org/journal/real_iraq_war.html


Holy shit!

Give us some warning, on links like that!

They aren't extremists in that sense. They don't kill people. They care about the people.
ELF is not a terrorist organization by the way... because in the entire fourteen years they have existed, they have no deaths in their name. They are mislabeled and punished with extreme sentences in prison that they really don't deserve. rapists and murderers get weaker sentences, and look at the current administration in the us!

There is no revolution because the people are not ready. They will decide when it is time for the change. But People need to stop living in the past and thinking communism and socialism can only be executed in the ruthless fashion of the Vanguard Lenists and maoists. That is certainly NOT the case. It is the past.

Yes, the ANC has roots in socialist terrorism, but they are no longer terrorist.

Better the ANC than these guys:
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/02/05/Worldandnation/Right_wing_terrorism_.shtml

or these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Party_(South_Africa)

Probably not.

How about the Tamil Tigers then?

They seem to have some Marxists among their top ranks, but seriously, the kind of economy they are running would be best called conflict economy.

They would put on any label if it suits them. They are no leftists committed to any leftist causes.

Holy shit!

Give us some warning, on links like that!

Why? The dead children blown up in their sleep didnt have any warning...

If they were targetting civilians in the express hope of causing terror and panic they would then be classified as terrorists by you?

Absolutely.

I see no reason why the term needs to be viewed with such scorn and derision.

I'd say it's due to the decline in Maoism as a serious power in the international leftist movements, the usurpation of the palestinian nationalist cause by Islamists, and the fact that most of the left has now decided that actually attempting to build a vanguard is more effective than killing businessmen and politicians.

In Portugal, the 1974 left-wing revolution was done with flowers... :D

But really, my point is that their sole (or primary) goal is to cause terror.


A lot of things are created for the sole or primary purpose of causing terror. Yet not all of these things are terrorist or terrorism. Thus it is not sufficient to simply cause fear. The reason or purpose for causing that fear is important. Thus, some definitions of terrorism (bold/emphasis is added):


Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby — in contrast to assassination — the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators.
( http://www.unodc.org/unodc/terrorism_definitions.html )


Terrorism includes the unlawful use of force
and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a
government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in
furtherance of political or social objectives.
( http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?YEAR=current&TITLE=28&PART=0&SECTION=85&SUBPART=&TYPE=TEXT )

The sole or primary goal of the terrorist to to pursue and publicize political or social goals and agendas. "Terror" is simply the particular tactical method employed in doing such. As such, terrorism is one particular method of political participation and mobilization (even if it is widely, and correctly, considered illegitimate, immoral, and illegal).

obviously there are exceptions, which is why i said mostly.
point is, when someone picks up a gun and points it at someone, or sends them a letter bomb or what have you, i for one, at that point stop seeing them as 'leftist' in any sense of the word.
You should educate yourself. By your standards, Karl Marx was not a leftist. After all, he advocated class war.

Socialism is not the same as pacifism.

Where did all the leftist terrorist go? I know there must be some I'm not thinking of, or haven't heard about. Where are the days of the RAF and the red scare? I know Chavez leans socialist but as far as I've seen he actually has no links to terrorism that can be proven and his human right record might not be great but it is not a stand out bad one either. So I consider him more of just an outspoken president.

I'm so sick of all the rightist bullshit I want some balance. So tell me, is the left dead or just sleeping?

These come to mind:

Earth Liberation Front (ELF): The ELF has committed more than 1,200 acts of vandalism and arson in the U.S., causing more than $200 million in damage. Personally, I find it a wonderful idea to destroy a lot of SUVs, but poor planning: you're just driving up the price and making people want them more.
Also, you just wasted a lot of resources for nothing, which is not liberating to the Earth.

Animal Liberation Front (ALF): The Animal Liberation Front (ALF) is a name used internationally by animal liberation activists who engage in direct action on behalf of animals, which includes removing animals from facilities, or sabotaging facilities in protest against the animal testing, fur, meat, egg, or dairy industries. Considered a terrorist threat by the US Department of Homeland Security.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA): Has been accused of supporting both of the groups above. Also, I consider them terrorists because I like bacon.

Why? The dead children blown up in their sleep didnt have any warning...

I hope you realise the mods have deated people for posting that exact site...