NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12801930/

I said this needed to happen. They are charging Venezuela with the very things people on this forum claimed he wasn't doing. It's about time too.

Wasn't aware they were buying arms from us. If they weren't then the sanction means jack shit.

It's wierd. I go throught these phases. First, I get really angry at the stupidity of this admin. Then I get scared because I realize how badly this clown is messing up the world. Then I calm down, realize there's nothing I can do and that all the people around me are in the same boat and we'll just somehow figure out how to keep going in the face of the terrible things that are going to come down at us all as a result of this man's criminal lack of competence. Then a story like this comes out and I start all over again. :headbang:

That's the first time I used that smiley.

The story makes two key points.



U.S. sales and licensing for the export of defense articles and services to Venezuela, including the transfer of defense items, will not be permitted
In other words, US companies will not be able to sell military equipment to Venezuela. The rest of the world will. Most of its stuff is Russian-made anyway, imported by third parties.



Venezuela is the world’s No. 5 oil exporter

the fifth-largest supplier of oil to the United States
The US government will continue to give the Venezuelan government record amounts of foreign exchange.

Oh yes, I will offer no opinion. The facts in the piece speak for themselves.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12801930/

I said this needed to happen. They are charging Venezuela with the very things people on this forum claimed he wasn't doing. It's about time too.

Because the U.S. Government never makes mistakes. :P

Interesting what the first complaint is about. Collobaration with Cuba and Iran? No, that's third and last. Look at the first.

“Venezuelan cooperation in the international campaign against terrorism remained negligible,” the report said. “President Hugo Chavez persisted in public criticism of U.S. counterterrorism efforts, publicly championed Iraqi terrorists (and) deepened Venezuelan collaboration with such state sponsors of terrorism as Cuba and Iran.”

OH NOES TEHY CRITICIZED THE US

Chávez called Bush a terrorist that should go to jail...What would you expect?

And Tactical...We own several F-16, that I guess are going to rot in a hangar somewhere....

The new stuff is russian, but ye olde one is still american-european

I wonder if the USA iswilling to enforce this ban to your OTAN allies...

We venezuelans are pretty frigged with this guy on charge, in any case. We are going to end entirely isolated from the rest of the world, making a nice axis with Chávez's mentor Fidel, Iran, Lybia and North Korea.

We really do not deserve this fate, we don't.

Interesting what the first complaint is about. Collobaration with Cuba and Iran? No, that's third and last. Look at the first.



OH NOES TEHY CRITICIZED THE US
\/\/h473v3r 5h4|| w3 d0!

Chávez called Bush a terrorist that should go to jail...What would you expect?

And Tactical...We own several F-16, that I guess are going to rot in a hangar somewhere....

The new stuff is russian, but ye olde one is still american-european

I wonder if the USA iswilling to enforce this ban to your OTAN allies...

We venezuelans are pretty frigged with this guy on charge, in any case. We are going to end entirely isolated from the rest of the world, making a nice axis with Chávez's mentor Fidel, Iran, Lybia and North Korea.

We really do not deserve this fate, we don't.

You will not be as isolated as that. It is highly unlikely that the rest of South America will turn its back on Venezuela just because Chavez upset Bush. You may not like your president any more than I do, but there is a pretty clear mind set in South America as a whole that we should no longer bow to first world whims and pressures. Chavez is just part of that movement as a whole.

There is a lot of negotiating yet to be done with your neighbours, but the process is underway.

You may not like your president any more than I do, but there is a pretty clear mind set in South America as a whole that we should no longer bow to first world whims and pressures. Chavez is just part of that movement as a whole.

But the way Chavez is going about it doesn't work; he's trashed the oil industry and put thousands out of work, is attempting to turn Bolivia in to a puppet state and is allying with nations that have horrendous civil and political rights issues. He's making moves for his own power rather than the well being of anyone, and that's going to end up equally as harmful to South America as any of the brutal "interventions" of the Cold War.

Populism is a failed ideology that only ruins the opportunities of the nation that applies its policies. It's failed time and again, and Venezuela is soon to join that group. They can no longer meet OPEC quotas, and oil production is falling drastically each year, which means higher prices abroad and poverty and inflation in Venezuela hurting the very people Chavez purports to care about.

But the way Chavez is going about it doesn't work; he's trashed the oil industry and put thousands out of work, is attempting to turn Bolivia in to a puppet state and is allying with nations that have horrendous civil and political rights issues. He's making moves for his own power rather than the well being of anyone,

Ok, so the worst you can come up with is attempting to turn a south American nation into a puppet, allying with nations with poor civil and political rights, and making moves for his own gain.

I'll take it you weren't a fan of Nixon.

Ok, so the worst you can come up with is attempting to turn a south American nation into a puppet, allying with nations with poor civil and political rights, and making moves for his own gain.

I also posted a report from Human Rights Watch that details a number of very recent and increasingly dramatic civil/political rights abuses. It's in the other thread; I'll post it here when I get it.

I'll take it you weren't a fan of Nixon.

No, I loathed him.

But the way Chavez is going about it doesn't work; he's trashed the oil industry and put thousands out of work, is attempting to turn Bolivia in to a puppet state and is allying with nations that have horrendous civil and political rights issues. He's making moves for his own power rather than the well being of anyone, and that's going to end up equally as harmful to South America as any of the brutal "interventions" of the Cold War.

Populism is a failed ideology that only ruins the opportunities of the nation that applies its policies. It's failed time and again, and Venezuela is soon to join that group. They can no longer meet OPEC quotas, and oil production is falling drastically each year, which means higher prices abroad and poverty and inflation in Venezuela hurting the very people Chavez purports to care about.
Except that Chavez tries to hide it by making gas cheap for people in other countries he wants to influence and help his puppets take over and making it free for his own people at all costs. That way everyone looks at the free oil and says what a nice guy Chavez is. He's using oil to cover up his rights violations, his interference in his neighbors' internal affairs, and his support of terrorrist regimes.

Look at the arguments used around this forum: Chavez might support terrorists but he's ok cause he gives people free oil.

Ok, so the worst you can come up with is attempting to turn a south American nation into a puppet, allying with nations with poor civil and political rights, and making moves for his own gain.

I'll take it you weren't a fan of Nixon.
So a thousand years ago, some dude jumped off a bridge. Therefore you should too :rolleyes:

Pfft! The US was already not selling weapons to Venezuela. These aren't sanctions, not even close. And the reasons argued by the US are so ridiculous it's more like a playground fight.

Pfft! The US was already not selling weapons to Venezuela. These aren't sanctions, not even close. And the reasons argued by the US are so ridiculous it's more like a playground fight.

Were we not selling weapons because we didn't want to sell them, because they couldn't pay for them, or because it was no longer returning the political influence we wanted??

"Terrorism" it's not quite "Communism" but it gets the job done.

Ahh, yes. More worthless dick-waving from an administration that refuses to stop calling kettles black. Whitt, I've normally reserved this quote for Corny, but now you've earned it too.

"I am not paid to listen to this drivel. You are a terminal fool."

--William S. Burroughs.

Interesting what the first complaint is about. Collobaration with Cuba and Iran? No, that's third and last. Look at the first.



OH NOES TEHY CRITICIZED THE US

Who cares. In ye olde days the CIA would have knocked this guy off after a few months. Proof today's CIA is different than the old one. (FOr better or worse).

Except that Chavez tries to hide it by making gas cheap for people in other countries he wants to influence and help his puppets take over and making it free for his own people at all costs. That way everyone looks at the free oil and says what a nice guy Chavez is. He's using oil to cover up his rights violations, his interference in his neighbors' internal affairs, and his support of terrorrist regimes.

And the funniest thing is, one of the reasons why he is able to offer cheap gas as a gift is because Venezuelan production is plunging at the same time oil demand is rising, driving up prices and putting pressure on the poor and lower class people.

Even better, that cheap gas is being paid for by Chavez when he buys it from Russia to meet his OPEC quotas; the Venezuelan oil industry is in such terrible shape that they can't meet their quotas consistently, and shortfalls are getting more common and severe.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12801930/

I said this needed to happen. They are charging Venezuela with the very things people on this forum claimed he wasn't doing. It's about time too.

And this means what..they're charging Venezuela with the very things he wasnt doing.


And the funniest thing is, one of the reasons why he is able to offer cheap gas as a gift is because Venezuelan production is plunging at the same time oil demand is rising, driving up prices and putting pressure on the poor and lower class people. .

Yeah...the poor. They were there before Hugo weren't they? Theres a lot of them too. Maybe if the money had been a bit more evenly divided, and the poor werent quite so poor, then they never would have voted for somebody like Chavez. Because there'd be no need. But it wasn't, nor was it in Bolivia, where they seem even worse off. So if a few of you with the money now feel some slight discomfort when the "great unwashed" get a bit of power my advice is this - be thankful they havent resorted to death squads like the elite of Latin America tend to do.

Update:

United States slaps sanctions on Belarus dictatorship.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12807277/

About time.

Were we not selling weapons because we didn't want to sell them, because they couldn't pay for them, or because it was no longer returning the political influence we wanted??
Because you didn't want to.