NationStates Jolt Archive

I got the 'parental licences' issue again today, and I don't recall having seen this debated in General, at least not in a long, long time.

So let's have at it!

Should "potential parents (have) to pass tests to prove they're responsible enough" to breed? Why or why not? What are the issues involved?

I got the 'parental licences' issue again today, and I don't recall having seen this debated in General, at least not in a long, long time.

So let's have at it!

Should "potential parents (have) to pass tests to prove they're responsible enough" to breed? Why or why not? What are the issues involved?
Oh i want in on this one first.
Required.

The why would be population control, familial integrity, debt management, and perhaps a few other reasons i'll respond to on the morrow (gotta go sleep).
The why not? Hmmm. Why not?
Suffice it to say the recent studies on what political affiliations support what in terms of breeding and proliferation pretty much spell it out as to why there should be licenses. Hard-earned ones.

In principle I think this idea has merit.
In practice however I fear that it will eventually result in new parents being required to be members of a certain church, have certain political affiliations etc. before being allowed to breed.

Let people have kids as they want, if their incompetance is so great they are an actual threat to the childs life/well being than I'm sure other families would be glad to adopt.

enforcement would be a bitch...

"Oh Yess honey, Yess!"
*Door slams open as several uniformed people rush in.*
"Freeze! spread em.... You know what I mean! Please exit the lady... keep your hand in the air and your seed in your packet! Please produce your licence."
"Hmm... officer... you see... it's funny but..."
"So... Breeding without a Licence huh?"
"But we wern't..."
"You are not wearing a condom, thus you were breeding... Cuff him and Cap that" *Points to his nether regions. then turns to the woman.*
"Alright lady..."
"But officer, he said he had one... Honest..." as she produces her licence.
"You're cleared Ma'am. but you gotta be more careful... always insist on seeing their licence first. Get this scum down town."

I see a lot of people who don't know who to raise children properly so we should have licences to have children.

I see a lot of people who don't know how to spend money properly so we should have licences to spend.

I see a lot of people who don't know how to eat healthily so we should have licences to eat.

I've heard a lot of people make weird wheezing noises so we should have licences to breath.

Then life will be perfect. Like I already am.

I see a lot of people who don't know who to raise children properly so we should have licences to have children.

I see a lot of people who don't know how to spend money properly so we should have licences to spend.

I see a lot of people who don't know how to eat healthily so we should have licences to eat.

I've heard a lot of people make weird wheezing noises so we should have licences to breath.

Then life will be perfect. Like I already am.Sorry but you need a licence for that. do you have one?

Sorry but you need a licence for that. do you have one?

Can I see your licence to show you are authorized to demand licences?

Can I see your licence to show you are authorized to demand licences?
I am a concerned Citizen... all I can do is ask and report. Now, if I were to call the Authorities...

and I would...

If my Licence for that Arrived...

but it didn't... :(

I am a concerned Citizen... all I can do is ask and report. Now, if I were to call the Authorities...

and I would...

If my Licence for that Arrived...

but it didn't...

I'll show you yours if you show me mine.

Here in the UK we need licences for dogs and even fucking televisions. Yet the act of bringing new life into the world is open to anyone biologically capable. So yes, I would very much like to see parental licences introduced.

However, that is merely in theory, since in practice I reckon enforcement would be nigh impossible.

I'll show you yours if you show me mine.
:confused: isn't that mixed up?

Enforcement prior to intercourse would be impossible. However, once the person has become pregnant, if both partners don't have the aforementioned license, then they either undergo termination of the pregnancy or have it the child taken into child-welfare custody at birth. The couple can always get their child back at a later date by passing the necessary course.

Personally I like the idea. It is brutal but something of a necessity.

It will never happen but it would be nice.

Some people can't even look after themselves and they have no right trying to have a child.

Also when a person has 8 they should be fixed whether they like it or not :p

Illegal children should of course be sausagefied; thus they help solve the problems that caused their being illegal.

Visit SmartSolutions.gov

If our neighbours are anything to go by, it should also be backdated to their conception.

we're very responsible and hard-working parents, and it pains me to see children brought up to accept crap behaviour.

Illegal children should of course be sausagefied; thus they help solve the problems that caused their being illegal.

Visit SmartSolutions.gov
Too bad you weren't sausagefied.
(Well you probably were last night but that's a different kind of sausage)

I don't think people should need a license to breed. Since the qualifications will probably be taken by a community who haven't seen reality since they stopped sucking their mothers teat.

Also I think that a diverse genepool is vital to the survival of any population. Look at any birdshow and watch the freaks of nature who can hardly breath or eat because their owners decided that certain traits were better.

Well, if you are going to have a license to breed, all I think it would require would be:
Proof of stable residence (> 1 year)
Proof of stable income (>1 year)
Backup child care (marriage license or affadavit of a person willing to accept responsibility for a child in the event the mother or father should not be able to care for the child)

Would both parents have to be licensed breeders? No. It would be firmly established from the beginning that one parent would have legal responsibility for the child. Joint custody seems to lead to lots of blaming and finger pointing in cases where things don't go right.

I see a lot of people who don't know who to raise children properly so we should have licences to have children.

I see a lot of people who don't know how to spend money properly so we should have licences to spend.

I see a lot of people who don't know how to eat healthily so we should have licences to eat.

I've heard a lot of people make weird wheezing noises so we should have licences to breath.In the second and third case, they're mostly hurting themselves.
In the first case children may suffer, it affects people that can't take measures to protect themselves so they should be protected.
The wheezing noises, that's a border case. It's annoying, but most people can get away from the annoyance themselves, and they could be denied to have children so those don't suffer.

As for the enforcement issue. You can use various forms of long-term (but not permanent) contraception to control who can/can't breed. So you don't need officers of the law busting in bedroom doors, or car doors (as the case may be) to check people's licence.

As for whether it's a good idea. There's pros and cons. Procreation is in an important way each creature's right and duty. But on the other hand it may eliminated some problems society has, like the abundance of children that seem not to have been raised by their parents and cause trouble and vandalism. I suppose some people in the nature vs nurture debate might be inclined to blame genetics rather then how they are raised. But in that case, licenses might be used for genetic selection, to create a breed of nice well-adjusted people.
There also lies the main problem; breeding licenses open the door to eugenetics. It might be just a small step toward just letting people with desired traits (e.g. high intelligence or beauty) breed. Shirt-sighted in this respect may cause considerable problems for the species as diversity is lost; even if you ignore the inherent unfairness.

blah.

I've heard a lot of people make weird wheezing noises so we should have licences to breath.
Yes, there is a Brains in Tanks proposal that I can get behind. Fucking mouth-breathers, I use my nose and I use it silently; why can't they?
Actually, it isn't so important that they not breathe, so long as they are forced to do so somewhere else. Maybe in some foriegn place with a lot of bugs and not that many nice hotels or restaurants (to insure that I never feel the urge to go there and be surrounded by such inferior types).
Or, better yet, we could put them in zoos. Imagine that, all the imperfect people in zoos, so the perfect little children can see what life was like before we rounded up those horrid beasts and put them out of society. I can just see whole exhibits on people who use their salad forks to eat desert and another room filled with people who liked The Backstreet Boys (anyone still liking the Backstreet Boys is too deranged too live, however).

....................
Should "potential parents (have) to pass tests to prove they're responsible enough" to breed? Why or why not? What are the issues involved?
No tests, just pay a very high price. That way only the wealthy can breed, and everyone will eventually be wealthy.

Holy crap, yes!

I see people that are raging alchoholics that also have two or three young children that they are supposed to be responsible for. However, more often than not, they'll go to the bar and get loaded drunk and blow their weeks worth of wages rather than going to the store and buying things, like food. I know that not all people are like this, but too bad; it's better to be safe than sorry. If you don't pass a test to have a baby, you can't have one. If you get pregnant while you don't have a license, the baby is either aborted or taken in to government care after birth.

Yes. At the conclusion of high school or its equivalent in $INSERT FOREIGN COUNTRY HERE, all students should take a test to determine whether they should or should not be allowed to breed. Those who pass will be granted licences. Illegal children will be placed under state custody or put up for adoption, to be granted only to those with licences. Illegal parents will suffer the same penalties as for child abuse (I'm not sure what those are).

A perfect system should eventually result, or at least near-perfect.

Illegal children will be placed under state custody or put up for adoption, to be granted only to those with licences.
I see this a lot, and want to know how you can justify forcing the people to bear the burden of the illegal children. Especially in your own system (high school registration), where it would be possible to simply castrate those not worthy.
You all are so willing to take away people's freedoms, but then some crisis of conscience appears and you can't go all the way, instead opting for the most inefficient and expensive way to accomplish your "goals."

I see this a lot, and want to know how you can justify forcing the people to bear the burden of the illegal children. Especially in your own system (high school registration), where it would be possible to simply castrate those not worthy.
Actually, that's a much better, and less expensive idea, thanks.

Those that fail their tests should simply get their reproductive organs removed. End of story.

Actually, that's a much better, and less expensive idea, thanks.

Those that fail their tests should simply get their reproductive organs removed. End of story.

Sheesh, just allow them to take the test later.

Actually, that's a much better, and less expensive idea, thanks.
Yay, I changed someone's mind on NS.
*dances with joy*

Can I see your licence to show you are authorized to demand licences?
Ahh, it's in here somewhat ... hold on ... one of these should suffice ..:
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/586639/i/rotating-badge-home-page.gif

I got the 'parental licences' issue again today, and I don't recall having seen this debated in General, at least not in a long, long time.

So let's have at it!

Should "potential parents (have) to pass tests to prove they're responsible enough" to breed? Why or why not? What are the issues involved?

No, people would just cheat on the tests, and give the answers that they know the people want to hear.
Although it WOULD be nice if there was a way to stop bad parents from breeding further once they've been proven to be bad parents... I hate seeing bad parents carting around 4 kids...

I once made a UN issue like this.. whatever..

[/WHIM]

Chuck Norris shall eat illegal babies.

I agree very strongly. Parents need to have a minimum IQ and ability to take care of themselves, and demonstrate no major mental illness or genetic problem. I can think of a lot of things that we should screen for.

just because 'wanting' a child doesnt give someone 'right' to create life. Having a child in usual ways are no less serious thing than clonning human. It has serious effects on future of humanity.
On the other hand education level and Iq sometimes proves less important than how loving and caring parents are. Love, care and attention are crutial to a humans process of becoming 'human'. So while the idea itself is a strong and needed basis for future state politics across the globe, but criterias are still undecided upon. So the criteria of rights and responsibilty to have child must be researched throughoutly and simulated, experimented.

Actually Nothing can guarantee that a child or even licensed parents will not mess things up. Its life, and nothing is guaranteed. **But** at least some of the population that is obviously by scientific standarts unable to raise childs should be banned to preserve rights of future citizens and unborn humans.

The subject has to touch to abortion at a point too, I believe citizens that have **too many** abortions should be punished for their carelessness causing death. If you sleep while driving and kill someone and you get a punishment for it,and if you continiously do it your right to drive is taken away and you are severely punished. so that other citizens will fear and respect law and wont sleep by wheel. So same thing should be effective at abortion too. Being ignorant is no right, being ignorant is a good cause for ones elimination to improve remaining peoples living standarts. 6.5 billion people half is in hunger is no good for human race.

I got the 'parental licences' issue again today, and I don't recall having seen this debated in General, at least not in a long, long time.

So let's have at it!

Should "potential parents (have) to pass tests to prove they're responsible enough" to breed? Why or why not? What are the issues involved?
Hmmm, boy that sure would solve a lot of the worlds' problems wouldn't it.
That being said... ummm no. Not a good idea at all.

Hmmm, boy that sure would solve a lot of the worlds' problems wouldn't it.
That being said... ummm no. Not a good idea at all.
Can't you read?
Why or why not? What are the issues involved?



*blabbity <snipperoo>*
You have a habit of posting low grade material, amigo. At least answer it.

It's a stupid idea. As soon as you can tell me who is a good parent and who isn't, and who will be a good parent and who won't be, you can have licences.

Anyone who claims the moral infallibility to support such a thing should be the first to be denied any such licences.

It's a stupid idea. As soon as you can tell me who is a good parent and who isn't, and who will be a good parent and who won't be, you can have licences.

Anyone who claims the moral infallibility to support such a thing should be the first to be denied any such licences.

Its a good idea, you are forgetting that child adoption services are deciding who is a good parent and who isnt even today and helping parentless children find homes. as always, people start opposing with force any ideas to make life easier for people, raise life standarts by introducing new laws and regulations because they fear later they wont be able to change it if it proves bad, start making accusations etc.
Its paranoia that halts progress, fear of possibilities.
Just forget traffic licence too eh? who has the moral infallability to support that only people with drivers licence should use cars!

Its a good idea, you are forgetting that child adoption services are deciding who is a good parent and who isnt even today and helping parentless children find homes.
Actually, they investigate who is a bad parent, if there is evidence to support a case against them. That is a long way from telling someone they would be a bad parents simply because they're of a certain class/IQ/social status.

as always, people start opposing with force any ideas to make life easier for people, raise life standarts by introducing new laws and regulations because they fear later they wont be able to change it if it proves bad, start making accusations etc.
Such an idea would in no way make life 'easier'. I would suggest you come out of your Nietzsche fantasy bubble and realise that there is nothing measurable about what makes a 'good parent'. I know many people whose class, financial status, family stability etc would make you think they'd be brilliant parents; true, they don't have drunken pregnant 11 year olds as children, but they have some real spoilt brats. Ultimately, all parents are crap at it and just do the best they can. You tell people they can't have children because they'd be 'bad parents', you're not going to have any children.

Its paranoia that halts progress, fear of possibilities.
Then I shall content myself with the fact that 'paranoia' trumps the 'possibilities' here.

Just forget traffic licence too eh? who has the moral infallability to support that only people with drivers licence should use cars!
An irrelevant and bizarre comparison. :rolleyes: To use an internet word I despise for the very first time, I would say 'strawman'.

snip snip(cut) ...On the other hand education level and Iq sometimes proves less important than how loving and caring parents are. Love, care and attention are crutial to a humans process of becoming 'human'. So while the idea itself is a strong and needed basis for future state politics across the globe, but criterias are still undecided upon. So the criteria of rights and responsibilty to have child must be researched throughoutly and simulated, experimented.

Actually Nothing can guarantee that a child or even licensed parents will not mess things up. snip snip(cut)



This was my previous message, I see you skipped it so Im quoting this part.As you can see I support the idea but also not puttin IQ etc as the way people parenting should be chosen.
In daily life look around you and you will see people definately shouldnt be allowed to breed like rapists and psychotics, actually those who have used drugs are in category too because it possibly causes their children to be retarded. Close relative marriages, those who have abused their children in the past, ex-convicts with serious crimes, those who have psychological sicknessess, carriers of aids and genetic sicknesses. Basically unable to raise a child.

I insist on example of drivers license because both can cause people harm if not controlled, all parents needs to get training and get an exam so that they wont mess up their children at least chemically, sexually etc.Will know how to feed them and teach them not to get pragnant at age 11 or get drunk. Most of things that effect peoples lives at early ages can be avoided with training and licencing and banning. as for complex emotional matters between family members there is nothing can be done and I simply dont care.

Yay, I changed someone's mind on NS.
*dances with joy*
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