NationStates Jolt Archive

Who? Why, Why not? My fav cars are European. Not only they look so beautiful, but also classy and technologic. Discuss if you are into cars.

Gambia.

Gambia.
Nononononono, its Djibouti!

Volvo: Because it is a Swedish company.
Russian cars: They run longer than the government that made them.

Nononononono, its Djibouti!

Dijibouti my ass!

*hic*

Dijibouti my ass!

*hic*

That's a surprisingly arousing proposition

That's a surprisingly arousing proposition

That tends to happen when I speak. Arousal and propositioning.

European cars.

...some dude named Best?

Cars made in Oshawa, Ontario.

Seriously. Buy one. Now.

I'm surprised the poll options aren't "Nordic Whites" and "Foreigners."

I'm surprised the poll options aren't "Nordic Whites" and "Foreigners."

No no no, that's "frigging immigrants with higher population growths than us".

Volvo is owned by Ford.

Volvo is owned by Ford.

Which, in turn, is owned by Wal-Mart.

Volvo is owned by Ford.

So is Aston Martin and Jaguar.

So is Aston Martin and Jaguar.

I knew that. Honest!

And doesn't Bill Gates secretly own Wal-Mart?:D

Who? Why, Why not? My fav cars are European. Not only they look so beautiful, but also classy and technologic. Discuss if you are into cars.
I like Japanese cars. They may not have the look of European cars, but they are fuel efficient, very reliable, have slow depreciation rates, and lower prices.

Anyone that has ever owned a B.M.W. or Mercedes will tell you that the Germans make very good cars. So do the Japenese and Americans. Brits make good cars but they arte all for other people.

Britain Makes the best handmade cars

Britain Makes the best handmade cars

Wait, how do you hand-make a car? Unless you're Superman, twisting metal into intricate shapes...

Well, in lower price ranges it's probably Japan.

But overall, it's gotta be Europe.

I like the Maserati Quattroporte for those without a sporting bone in their body. And Lotus, Porsche and Lamborghini for the rest.

Bimmers may not be the most electronically reliable cars, but their engines will run forever. My vote goes to the Europeans, specifically German cars. These are without a doubt better than american cars, take a lesson from GM who is now homologating Saturn with the German car company Opel. Let us not forget that Europe is also home to the very best exotics.

B M W, there's nothing above BMW, not even Daimler Benz

Wait, how do you hand-make a car? Unless you're Superman, twisting metal into intricate shapes...

all the Cars that Morgan make are handmade well i ment assembled by hand

B M W, there's nothing above BMW, not even Daimler Benz
Sure there is.

http://www.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/normal.jpg?pool=germany&type=galleryimage&id=tu997-experience-exterieur-07&lang=none&filetype=normal

Phisheads']Bimmers may not be the most electronically reliable cars, but their engines will run forever. My vote goes to the Europeans, specifically German cars. These are without a doubt better than american cars, take a lesson from GM who is now homologating Saturn with the German car company Opel. Let us not forget that Europe is also home to the very best exotics.

Opel has been owned by GM for decades. I reckon Porsche make the best cars.

The OP didn't put Aussie cars on the poll! I'm offended! ;)

Racist makes thread about cars:


Who thought "Kahta?"

Being a Michigander I wish I could say American cars and keep a straight face.

No no no, that's "frigging immigrants with higher population growths than us".

Its funny how we all think alike.:rolleyes:

Racist makes thread about cars:


Who thought "Kahta?"


You mean Ny Nordland isn't Kahta?

Next you'll be saying he's not VoteEarly.

If its not European it sucks.

Being a Michigander I wish I could say American cars and keep a straight face.
You do have to admit that our muscle cars own. We're pretty much the only ones that bother making them.

Who? Why, Why not?

Best for what ? The trip to the shops, dropping off and picking up the children from school andthe daily travel to work in a busy city ? For exploring rough terrain with a little sandy road at most ? For driving over other cars ? For racing ? For picking up girls ? For being nice to the environment ?You get the idea ;)

Homer of course:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/04/Homer_dreamcar.gif

Russian cars: They run longer than the government that made them.
Hehe.

It's a tough call between Europe and East Asia, I must say...
Europe has VW, Audi, Mercedes, and... well... some non-german ones... While Asia has Toyota, Hyundai etc. Reliable, efficient, not all too costly, but I'll go with Europe based on the looks.

Ew, I feel sooo shallow...

It's more accurate to say SLOVAKIA makes the best cars. :D

(Lord knows that just about every auto company is building or is building a plant to build cars there now...)

Volvo is owned by Ford.


Mmmm, yeah, it seems almost everything cars is owned by FORD.

Mmmm, yeah, it seems almost everything cars is owned by FORD.

Or Volkswagen.

They own all this:

Audi
Bentley
Bugatti
Lamborghini
Skoda
SEAT
And Volkswagen (Duh...)

I would choose Euro cars. The looks, the power, the quality.
Yup. However, Quality is a close call with the Asian manufacturers. Sadly enough, their prices are better aswell. Euro cars are really expensive, especially German cars.

I knew that. Honest!

And doesn't Bill Gates secretly own Wal-Mart?:D
Down with Microsoft!
Microsoft :mp5:

American cars are substandard. Poor quality, bland style, and cheap materials. Germans make the best cars all around, Mercedes, BMW, VW rule. Japanese cars are the most affordable, Honda takes the cake in quality and craftmanship.

Who makes the best cars?

Germans do of course.

Or Volkswagen.

They own all this:

Audi
Bentley
Bugatti
Lamborghini
Skoda
SEAT
And Volkswagen (Duh...)
.

WRONG. :rolleyes: Ford does NOT own VW, or any of the brands you mention. Audi is owned by VW.

Ford owns Mazda, Volvo, Aston Martin, Land Rover and Jaguar.

Who makes the best cars?

Germans do of course.
Which do you prefer: Mercedes or BMW?

WRONG. :rolleyes: Ford does NOT own VW. Audi is owned by VW.

Ford owns Mazda, Volvo, Aston Martin, Land Rover and Jaguar.

He was saying that VW owns all that...not Ford.:rolleyes:

WRONG. :rolleyes: Ford does NOT own VW. Audi is owned by VW.

Ford owns Mazda, Volvo, Aston Martin, Land Rover and Jaguar.

...that's what he said. He said VW also owned lots of car companies...then listed said companies. You're not too bright. :rolleyes:

Which do you prefer: Mercedes or BMW?

BMW sir.

You do have to admit that our muscle cars own. We're pretty much the only ones that bother making them.


except they have a heart attack if they see anything resembling a bend.... ;)

germans make the best IMO

I love all these "Germans make the best" comments, given the Mercedes is currently in the toilet, BMW is slipping, and VW isn't doing that well:

No Mercedes-Benz vehicle earns a "recommended" from Consumer Reports. Mercedes-Benz also is worst in the list of how well five-year-old vehicles held up. Mercedes-Benz did not respond to requests for comment.

German brands BMW, Audi and Volkswagen also are in the bottom half of the reliability rankings, and relatively few of their models earn a "recommended."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-03-01-consumer-reports-reliability_x.htm

American cars are substandard. Poor quality, bland style, and cheap materials. Germans make the best cars all around, Mercedes, BMW, VW rule. Japanese cars are the most affordable, Honda takes the cake in quality and craftmanship.


Actually, Buick is considered one of the best nameplates on the road, over BMW and Honda. Right behind Toyota I think.

European cars are best by a long shot, with German ones leading.

I love all these "Germans make the best" comments, given the Mercedes is currently in the toilet, BMW is slipping, and VW isn't doing that well:

No Mercedes-Benz vehicle earns a "recommended" from Consumer Reports. Mercedes-Benz also is worst in the list of how well five-year-old vehicles held up. Mercedes-Benz did not respond to requests for comment.

German brands BMW, Audi and Volkswagen also are in the bottom half of the reliability rankings, and relatively few of their models earn a "recommended."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-03-01-consumer-reports-reliability_x.htm

You're right, I'm afraid. It's been going downhill for a while, except for Porsche.
Japanese cars are the best at the moment, especially where reliability and likelihood of breakdown are concerned.

I'd still buy a VW Passat though, especially the Diesels.

Actually, Buick is considered one of the best nameplates on the road, over BMW and Honda. Right behind Toyota I think.
Maybe in the US.

Europe makes the best cars (the sports cars and German executive saloons, mainly), very closely followed by Japan (Honda make incredible engines, and all the Jap marques are very reliable).

All the US does properly are muscle cars, and even then I find them rather pointless, as they seem adverse to the phenomenon I like to term a "corner".

I hate it when I have to vote for something Euro over something American. but if any poll calls for me doing it, its this one.

Before we had to return it, do to the lease being up, my mom had a Audi A8L and let me tell you, it was the most amazing thing in the world. That car has so much extra testosterone leaking from its crevices, that it could have grown its own hair.:fluffle:

I love Audi. My only complaint for them is their lack of cupholders.

Now, I drive a Lincoln Navigator (American) and while it isnt German, I enjoy it just fine and I havnt had any problems with it.

Erm, Europeans in terms of amazing cars, but the Japanese win when it comes to sanity. Plus, Honda has cool adverts.

europeans, although that beast holden that GM has started importing into britain from australia for vauxhall is pretty awesome. can't remember what it's called just now.

europeans, although that beast holden that GM has started importing into britain from australia for vauxhall is pretty awesome. can't remember what it's called just now.
Monaro? That one is rather nice.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/vauxhall/vauxhall_images/vauxhall_monaro_21_02_05.jpg

europeans, although that beast holden that GM has started importing into britain from australia for vauxhall is pretty awesome. can't remember what it's called just now.
Monaro.

The obvious answer is Japan.

Monaro? That one is rather nice.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/vauxhall/vauxhall_images/vauxhall_monaro_21_02_05.jpg

that's the one :D

European. They have mercedes for taxis! Nuf said.:p

i reckon britain makes the best cars in terms of exhaust note and, at the moment, styling. TVR, aston martin and jaguar make the best looking new cars out there imo, plus britain has a tonne of independant kit-car makers that are often amazing. for reliability tho they're rubbish - the japanese car manufacturers seem to be best at that at the moment. actually just thought of two non-european cars with awesome styling - the new skyline gtr concept and pretty much every generation of the corvette.

Maybe in the US.

Europe makes the best cars (the sports cars and German executive saloons, mainly), very closely followed by Japan (Honda make incredible engines, and all the Jap marques are very reliable).

All the US does properly are muscle cars, and even then I find them rather pointless, as they seem adverse to the phenomenon I like to term a "corner".


So you are saying that Benz, Toyota, et al, build their cars to be less reliable for the U.S. market? No offense, but that is one of the more idiotic things I've heard recently.

Common misconception among compact car owners. Remember, most of those muscle cars were designed and raced on road courses, not just dragstrips.

So you are saying that Benz, Toyota, et al, build their cars to be less reliable for the U.S. market?

Nope. Where did you get that silly idea?

For a start, Merc are German, and I never said anything about German reliability.

As for Toyota, they have one of the best reliability records of any maker worldwide.

For instance, the JD Power Survey, compiled from the ratings of those who own the cars, listed Toyotas as the fourth most reliable/quality manufacturer available in the UK. Here's the table:
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/134555622.jpg

I'm sure it doesn't escape your notice that 3 out of the top 5 are Japanese, and the other 2 are European. Or that the top ranked US marque, Chrysler, was 27th out of 32.

And, as for Merc, many motor journalists have noted that they have regained their previous build quality and reliability in their new generation of cars.

No offense, but that is one of the more idiotic things I've heard recently.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.cobbe/potkettle.jpg

Common misconception among compact car owners. Remember, most of those muscle cars were designed and raced on road courses, not just dragstrips.

OK, you get a muscle car, I'll get a 911 Carrera, and I'll see you at the Nordschliefe.

OK, you get a muscle car, I'll get a 911 Carrera, and I'll see you at the Nordschliefe.
:D

right ill be honest, im not completely mad about cars ,and dont know endless information on them , but.... a BMW omg.. eugh so good. every time a see a BMW 5 series or up i do a sex wee in my pants :rolleyes:

OK, you get a muscle car, I'll get a 911 Carrera, and I'll see you at the Nordschliefe.

Although I appreciate the desire to get the 911, I think you could probably win with a Mini Cooper.

European cars.

My parents have owned many different makes; GMC, Volvo, BMW, Buick, Nissan, etc. The GMC, Buick, and Nissan were craptastic. The Volvo and BMW lasted forever.

Although I appreciate the desire to get the 911, I think you could probably win with a Mini Cooper.
But...but...
http://fifthgear.five.tv/features/porsche9114S_400.jpg

I love the Porsche 997 911 Carrera. :D

But...but...
http://fifthgear.five.tv/features/porsche9114S_400.jpg
I don't see what everyone sees in the 911. I mean the design's been around for ages, it looks dated and lumpy. They do drive well, but I really don't like them.

*dons flame-proof suit*

Depends. Longest lasting and most durable are probably Japanese cars. You can abuse the hell out of them, tack them 5000 past redline and they still run without a hitch, and get really good gas mileage.

Most beautiful cars are in my opinion European cars, Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc, can't beat those (and others from those parts) in looks, but they break down alot and are mad expensive to fix.

Most potential for raw horsepower and ability to put out in a straight line, as well as awesome but simple agressive styling were the American muscle cars from the 60s and early 70s. I'm not much of a fan of modern American cars, although, as of late there has been a reversion to the "muscle car era" with that same agressive styling and raw power, as shown with the rebirth of the GTO, the new revamped Mustang, Charger, etc, but I don't think they'll ever be able to capture again what they had in the 60s and 70s.

Personally, I like all three. I drive a Toyota Camry, and I can abuse the hell out of it and I've never had a single problem with it. I was taking it up like a 9% incline (up in the mountains) the other day doing 85 for a good while, and after I let off, she still ran perfect. I would get something faster, but I like that thing mostly because of the pure usabilty and durability of it. I get good gas mileage, it doesn't break down, and for a grocery getter it still goes well past the legal speed limit. When I'm older and have more moeny to play with I'll get a toy though, either a classic 60s muscle car and supe it up, or a european car just to turn heads (and kill corvettes). For now the Camrys good for a college kid though, I don't drive that much anyway, I can walk most places I need to get to on campus, I just need it to go back home or to walmart, stuff like that.

Ever guess that the reason they've had that design for the 911 for so long is because its a GOOD design?

Ever guess that the reason they've had that design for the 911 for so long is because its a GOOD design?
It's not. Technically, the layout of the car (rear-engined) is terrible.

But somebody obviously liked it, so instead of re-engineering it to be mid-engined, they just perservered until it worked.

I mean, it only took 30 years, but it was worth it in the end.

*snip*
I love Audi. My only complaint for them is their lack of cupholders.
*snip*


And that preceding sentence is why I'm sometimes embarassed to be from the US. Cupholders?!? THAT's your complaint? German manufacturers were completely puzzled at the US demand for cupholders. Why? Because they consider the task of controlling a two-ton machine to be mutually exclusive from enjoying a beverage. Good grief -- put down the damned espresso and drive the car! Put down the hairbrush and drive the car! Stop programming your iPod and drive the car! Have dinner when you arrive and drive the car! Hang up the bleeding cell phone and DRIVE THE DAMN CAR!

I say GOOD for Audi for not having cupholders. If you own a fine piece of automotive technology like an A8 and you'd rather suck down a Coke than enjoy it, you don't deserve it.

Sorry. Pet peeve. Rant over. I like Honda/Acura; I used to own a 1991 Integra and drove the wheels off it. I just purchased a 2002 Honda Civic Si and am loving it.

Most beautiful cars are in my opinion European cars, Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc, can't beat those (and others from those parts) in looks, but they break down alot and are mad expensive to fix.The three BMWs in my driveway have never broken down before... and neither have any of the other European cars we've owned.

I don't see what everyone sees in the 911. I mean the design's been around for ages, it looks dated and lumpy. They do drive well, but I really don't like them.

*dons flame-proof suit*
It's the speed and the handling that are amazing.

On top of that, I do think the 997 is a beautiful car. At least they got rid of those weird 996 headlights.

I didn't mention BMW. I would say that they are one of the few european cars that DON'T break down alot. I was talking about the super sporty ones that are just designed to go really fast, but you abuse them too much, and boom.

It's the speed and the handling that are amazing.

On top of that, I do think the 997 is a beautiful car. At least they got rid of those weird 996 headlights.
It is getting better, I'll concede that. But I still think it looks like it a souped up beetle.

I prefer my cars to look like they are carved from liquid metal. Like this (http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=tvr+tuscan+blue&btnG=Search)

It is getting better, I'll concede that. But I still think it looks like it a souped up beetle.

I prefer my cars to look like they are carved from liquid metal. Like this (http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=tvr+tuscan+blue&btnG=Search)
TVR's aren't very good looking. And they tend to kill you a lot.

The 911 range looks almost identical to when Hitler drew up his first design.

Go with the Aston everytime. I don't care if it's the DB9 or the V8 Vantage, I want one...

I don't see whats wrong with the 911. I love the 911. When I made my statement I was referring to the styling of the car more so then the handling and speed, however, (having never driven one myself, I cannot comment with first hand experience) I hear that they handle extremely well, and have lots of power for their weight. So they must have done something right.

The japennese and Germans have lots of technoolgy ETC
the americans have large engines and thats about it, but large engines give large power
the English and Italins make cars with great passion, style and engines (just the one from Italy happen to break down alot and to be fairly rubbish (besides Ferrari and Lambo)
the swedes make safe cars with lots of clever safety stuff
the french, mass market, flimsy until they try to play the germans at the execuative game in which case they make great cars, just they lose value like a rocket because no-one buys them outside france. but Citroens do seem to last a life time.
the asians (which are not japan), all cheap rubbish.

i think that covers pretty much every one

so what you need is a car that mixes car cultures, take european style and soul (England and Italy), the smart stuff from the Germans, the pricing from the Japenese, the safety from the Swedes and have an american parent company.

Land Rover Discovery it is then

so every nation has good bits

TVR's aren't very good looking. And they tend to kill you a lot.

Nah, they're the safest cars on earth.

They break down before anything can happen.

The 911 range looks almost identical to when Hitler drew up his first design.

The 911 was only introduced in 1964.

You must mean the Beetle. And, well, it looks completely different from when "Hitler" drew it.

I think that TVRs ugly. Corvettes are ugly too. Also, theres a reason the 911 looks like a suped up bug. The 356's looked almost exactly like bugs. The engine bolt patterns match up too. You could drop a 911 engine in a bug and it'd go vroom. Hmmm... wonder why that is.

Nah, they're the safest cars on earth.

They break down before anything can happen.
True, true. :D

The 911 was only introduced in 1964.

You must mean the Beetle. And, well, it looks completely different from when "Hitler" drew it.
It was meant in a tongue in cheek way. :p

I do find them boring, though. It's the same with the Jag XJ - I really respect the engineering, but if I were buying a brand new dream car I'd want it to actually look new.

I prefer my cars to look like they are carved from liquid metal. Like this (http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=tvr+tuscan+blue&btnG=Search)

yay! tvrs are awesome!

TVR's aren't very good looking.
I think that TVRs ugly.

you are silly. do you have eyes? tell me this (http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=tvr+sagaris&btnG=Search) is ugly.

I do find them boring, though. It's the same with the Jag XJ - I really respect the engineering, but if I were buying a brand new dream car I'd want it to actually look new.

Aye, but I suppose that isn't the Jag 'style'. Anyhow, if I was going to shell out for a large executive saloon, I'd have an old-shape 7 series

If you are a millionare: Ferrari.

If you are NOT a millionare: Tie between Ford/Dodge/Crysler.

Infinie, ok, I admit, that is a pretty car. I would hump that.

Nah, they're the safest cars on earth.

They break down before anything can happen.
Lol, I'll concede that. They aren't exactly an epitome of reliability or handling, but they have character. This is something the Porsche lacks, imo. Apart from the insides, Porsche seems to have adopted a policy of 'if it aint broke, don't fix it', and this is a bad thing, if you as me.

If you are a millionare: Ferrari.
I love the new F430, but I do worry that if you're driving a Ferrari no one will ever let you out at junctions.

If you are NOT a millionare: Tie between Ford/Dodge/Crysler.
Mazda RX-8, without a doubt. A fantastic, vaguely practical coupé at budget prices.

If you are a millionare: Ferrari.

No way man. On Saturday I saw a Lamborghini Gallardo. I swear I was actually in love. Stood staring at it for ages.

Half an hour later I saw a Ferrari 360 Modena and barely blinked.

Lambourghini kills Ferrari in desirability stakes.

And if we take it to supercars, Pagani kills Ferrari in desirability stakes.

If you are NOT a millionare: Tie between Ford/Dodge/Crysler.
If you're American, anyway :p

Lol, I'll concede that. They aren't exactly an epitome of reliability or handling, but they have character. This is something the Porsche lacks, imo. Apart from the insides, Porsche seems to have adopted a policy of 'if it aint broke, don't fix it', and this is a bad thing, if you as me.
As opposed to the TVR's "if it is broke, don't fix it" philosophy ;)

Yeah, I'd have a TVR over a 911 anyday if all I was concerned about was looks and the exhaust note. But I'd have the 911 because, well, they're one of the fastest, best handling cars you'll get at any money.

No way man. On Saturday I saw a Lamborghini Gallardo. I swear I was actually in love. Stood staring at it for ages.

Half an hour later I saw a Ferrari 360 Modena and barely blinked.

Lambourghini kills Ferrari in desirability stakes.

And if we take it to supercars, Pagani kills Ferrari in desirability stakes.
The Lambo is a fantastic looking car. But I'll pass on the Zonda - it's a bit too crazy for my taste. I prefer discreet style and wealth to playboy looks. :p

The Lambo is a fantastic looking car. But I'll pass on the Zonda - it's a bit too crazy for my taste. I prefer discreet style and wealth to playboy looks. :p
HEATHEN! :p

How could you not think it looks absolutely fantastic.

And the speed and general great sound of the engine does help...

http://wallpaper.net.au/wallpaper/automotive/Pagini%20Zonda%20S%207.3%20-%20800x600.jpg

Some people hate me for saying this, but I think the Enzo is ugly. I just don't like that big weird buldge thing going down the front, ew. The sad thing is, 95% of these cars, I've never seen in real life. I've seen a handful of Porsches, especially boxers, but I don't really like thoses, I'm a 911 man. I've only seen one Ferrari in real life. I saw an Aston Martin DB9 parked on the side of the street once and rubber necked and about crashed MY car. :) Oh yeah, I saw a Rolls Royce on the interstate once, that was pretty sweet.

Infinie, ok, I admit, that is a pretty car. I would hump that.

yay! :D

Some people hate me for saying this, but I think the Enzo is ugly. I just don't like that big weird buldge thing going down the front, ew. The sad thing is, 95% of these cars, I've never seen in real life. I've seen a handful of Porsches, especially boxers, but I don't really like thoses, I'm a 911 man. I've only seen one Ferrari in real life. I saw an Aston Martin DB9 parked on the side of the street once and rubber necked and about crashed MY car. :) Oh yeah, I saw a Rolls Royce on the interstate once, that was pretty sweet.
My friend and I had a midnight blue DB9 convertible pull alongside us last week. We didn't nearly crash cos the only thing we could have hit was the DB9 - not gonna happen.;)

I don't really like those cars with the "bubble" looking canopy. It always makes me think its going to get up to speed and start like womping around like when you blow on a bubble and then burst and the drivers gonna go like flying out and splat all over the road at 230mph.

No way man. On Saturday I saw a Lamborghini Gallardo. I swear I was actually in love. Stood staring at it for ages.

Half an hour later I saw a Ferrari 360 Modena and barely blinked.

Lambourghini kills Ferrari in desirability stakes.

And if we take it to supercars, Pagani kills Ferrari in desirability stakes.


If you're American, anyway :p


If you are French: Renault.

If you are a complete traitor to supercars: Miura P400 SV.

If u r Nadkor: A Lambo.

HEATHEN! :p

How could you not think it looks absolutely fantastic.

And the speed and general great sound of the engine does help...

http://wallpaper.net.au/wallpaper/automotive/Pagini%20Zonda%20S%207.3%20-%20800x600.jpg
Yeah, but look at this;

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/astondb9.jpg

Seriously, how can you not look at that and fall totally in love? It's indescribably gorgeous. Sounds great as well.

Some people hate me for saying this, but I think the Enzo is ugly. I just don't like that big weird buldge thing going down the front, ew. The sad thing is, 95% of these cars, I've never seen in real life. I've seen a handful of Porsches, especially boxers, but I don't really like thoses, I'm a 911 man. I've only seen one Ferrari in real life. I saw an Aston Martin DB9 parked on the side of the street once and rubber necked and about crashed MY car. :) Oh yeah, I saw a Rolls Royce on the interstate once, that was pretty sweet.
Yeah, I don't like the Enzo either, but I've yet to see one in real life.

Some great cars I've seen in and around the streets of Belfast:
Ferrari 360 Modena and Maranello versions (many times)
Ferrari 456
Ferrari F430
Ferrari 575M
Ferrari 612 Scagletti
Rolls Royce Phantom
Rolls Royce Silver Seraph
Bentley Continental GT (many times)
Bentley Continental Flying Spur (many times)
Bentley Arnage (many times)
Lamborghini Gallardo
Lamborghini Murcielago
Aston Martin DB7
Aston Martin DB9 (many times)
Aston Martin V12 Vanquish
Aston Martin V8 Vantage (many times)
Maserati 3200 (many times)
Maserati Quattroporte
De Lorean (many times)
Caterham 7 (many times)
Westfield - all types (many times)
And then the usual Impreza WRX's and Lancer Evos.

That's all I can think of for now. The ones not marked "many times" I've only seen about once or twice. All have been driving, I didn't just walk into a dealer :p

Yeah, but look at this;

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/astondb9.jpg

Seriously, how can you not look at that and fall totally in love? It's indescribably gorgeous. Sounds great as well.

It's nice, but it doesn't cut a shape in the same way as the V12 Vanquish does.

If you are French: Renault.

If you are a complete traitor to supercars: Miura P400 SV.

If u r Nadkor: A Lambo.

Nah, on an 'average' budget I'd have a Caterham. Screw usability.

Yeah, I don't like the Enzo either, but I've yet to see one in real life.

Some great cars I've seen in and around the streets of Belfast:
Ferrari 360 Modena and Maranello versions (many times)
Ferrari 456
Ferrari F430
Ferrari 575M
Ferrari 612 Scagletti
Rolls Royce Phantom
Rolls Royce Silver Seraph
Bentley Continental GT (many times)
Bentley Continental Flying Spur (many times)
Bentley Arnage (many times)
Lamborghini Gallardo
Lamborghini Murcielago
Aston Martin DB7
Aston Martin DB9 (many times)
Aston Martin V12 Vanquish
Aston Martin V8 Vantage (many times)
Maserati 3200 (many times)
Maserati Quattroporte

That's all I can think of for now. The ones not marked "many times" I've only seen about once or twice. All have been driving, I didn't just walk into a dealer :p
:eek: Belfast is clearly a much richer place than I realised.

I noticed you've not seen Belfast's finest though, the DeLorean. :p

It's nice, but it doesn't cut a shape in the same way as the V12 Vanquish does.
I far prefer the DB9 to the Vanquish. I think the Vanquish looks a bit dated these days, to be honest; I also think its reputation has been tarnished somewhat by the fact there isn't really any reason to buy one over the DB9, when the latter is just as good for £50,000 less.

:eek: Belfast is clearly a much richer place than I realised.

I noticed you've not seen Belfast's finest though, the DeLorean. :p
Haha yeah, I just added it to the list. I should be ashamed of forgetting that...the factory is about a 5 minute drive from my house...

Depends upon what you mean by "best." If by best you mean most efficient (combination of quality, design and capability), then certainly it's the cars from East Asia. And personally, the best realistic option for me is the Honda Civic Si with the V-tec engine. If you get a standard, it's got the Alfa-Romero style stickshift. Sweet car.

Of course, even that isn't not all that realistic for me.

I'd really like a BMW convertible, preferably with the largest engine you can find.

Yeah, I don't like the Enzo either, but I've yet to see one in real life.

Some great cars I've seen in and around the streets of Belfast:
Ferrari 360 Modena and Maranello versions (many times)
Ferrari 456
Ferrari F430
Ferrari 575M
Ferrari 612 Scagletti
Rolls Royce Phantom
Rolls Royce Silver Seraph
Bentley Continental GT (many times)
Bentley Continental Flying Spur (many times)
Bentley Arnage (many times)
Lamborghini Gallardo
Lamborghini Murcielago
Aston Martin DB7
Aston Martin DB9 (many times)
Aston Martin V12 Vanquish
Aston Martin V8 Vantage (many times)
Maserati 3200 (many times)
Maserati Quattroporte

That's all I can think of for now. The ones not marked "many times" I've only seen about once or twice. All have been driving, I didn't just walk into a dealer :p
On that subject:
In the space of seven days, about a fortnight ago, I saw:
Ferrari F430 Convertible
Lamborghini Murcielago
Aston Martin DB9 convertible
TVR Tuscan
Lotus Exige
And 911's beyond number.
This from a city that hadn't produced anything beyond a MX5 in months. Weird.

Depends upon what you mean by "best." If by best you mean most efficient (combination of quality, design and capability), then certainly it's the cars from East Asia. And personally, the best realistic option for me is the Honda Civic Si with the V-tec engine.
I thought the new Honda looked fabulous when I first saw it. But then one day I thought 'you know, it looks like an egg' and it's never been the same since...

I far prefer the DB9 to the Vanquish. I think the Vanquish looks a bit dated these days, to be honest; I also think its reputation has been tarnished somewhat by the fact there isn't really any reason to buy one over the DB9, when the latter is just as good for £50,000 less.
Well, if you're the sort that can afford the Vanquish, I don't think you'd care about the piddling £50,000 :p

That's the sort of nonsensical expense that sets the very rich apart from the 'merely' rich, I suppose.

I thought the new Honda looked fabulous when I first saw it. But then one day I thought 'you know, it looks like an egg' and it's never been the same since...

aw, damn! i thought it looked pretty good too. but you're right, it does look like an egg. sort of spikey egg, but still. gah!

Volvo: Because it is a Swedish company.
Russian cars: They run longer than the government that made them.
haha ya like the tatra cool looking car 1959 tatra v8 air - cooled.americans the best lux car are europeans to the rest of the world its american cars. i my self think all of the cars out now are ass ugly. kick ass cars were the studebaker,kaiser/frazer, and the old ford vicky's. but i do like german auto hitlers volkswagon is fucking awesome. stick a 2444 or 3250 easy 220hp in a tiny bug is awesome.

Oh yeah, I am a COMPLETE FERRARI LOVER AND FAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
My favorite is the I DON'T HAVE A FAVORITE I LIKE THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread reaks of ignorance...hell, the smell burns my eyes. There are so many mistakes made on all sides, its almost painful. But the question should not be "who makes the best cars?" Its a stupid question. What do you want to do with that car? Wanna go screaming around the northern ring balls out? BMW or Porsche, or Chevy (the C6 Z06 is whuping the Porsche at its own game). Wanna go do some mad off roading? Land Rover all the way. Hummer's were designed for areas with crap roads, the Land Rovers for areas with no roads. Carry a whole bunch of people around in luxery? Euro or the high end Domestics. Wanna go real fast for real cheap? Japanese or Domestic. It all depends on what you want to do.

Oh, whoever said a muscle car cant handle, your dead fucking wrong. Any car can do anything if built to do it properly. I've seen LS1'd Trans Ams whup the shit out of E46 Ms around Laguna Seca. I've seen M3s drag the hell out of a Camaro, 'Vette, and Mustang down the 1/4 mile for breakfast, destroy a built Chevelle for lunch, and then put a C5 Z06 in its place at the end of the day. Its all about how you build it.

For me, I go with BMW. I've owned three (in my third now) and have had no problems that were the car's fault. I had a E36 325i as a daily driver back when I owned my Trans Am, then I picked up a E46 325i for a little fun car while working on some projects, which I ended up making into a project, and now I'm running with a twelve second E46 330ci ZHP, which is about to become friendly with mid 11s. The only BMW I've ever owned that gave me any problems was an E36 M3 which I held onto for about a week before figuring out the previous owner had fried the motor, and it was running on borrowed time. Right now, I'm saving up to get an E46 M3 ZCP which will benefit from an Active Autowerkes Supercharger, or possibly a custom turbo set up.

I held onto a Supra for a while, and dollar for dollar, they are great performance cars. Capable of more than 700rwhp on stock internals, easily able to see four digit horsepower numbers wih good tunning. Mine was BHP, had the same problem that the M did, the previous owner took no care of the car, and it just shit out on me. I don't think Supras are unreliable, but this one just had some shit becuase of the way it was taken care of.

My Trans Am, I loved it, it was great, but it just kept breaking shit. I poured about eight or nine thousand into that car overall, mixing and matching set ups and parts, and by the time I was done with it, it was a legitimate ten second 1/4mile car that could do decently well in the twisties had I not put a pure drag style suspension on it. It just kept breaking shit, and while I understand that a car that fast is putting alot of stress on its parts, I still feel as that it was breaking far to much to be reasonable.

When it comes to speed, you can have two of three things: Cheap, Fast, Reliable. Things that are cheap and fast will be less reliable. Things that are fast and reliable will not be cheap, and things that will be cheap and reliable will not be fast.

Basically, it comes down to a few things. First, what do you want the car to do? Second, can you take care of the car? And finally, do you enjoy driving it?

See for me, I want a car to be fast, I race all the time. So the car needs to be fast, I need a car that I can tune and toy with and do all that good stuff to. I can take care of my cars, I take care of all my cars I have owned except for the first, which I was trying to break on purpose. And third, if its sexy, fast, and comfy on the inside, then I will enjoy driving any car.

So the car needs to be fast, I need a car that I can tune and toy with and do all that good stuff to. I can take care of my cars, I take care of all my cars I have owned except for the first, which I was trying to break on purpose. And third, if its sexy, fast, and comfy on the inside, then I will enjoy driving any car.
Well, if you've got a million you could get the Bugatti. Or the new Konensiggeasfojsghsdtae;sgasdgbads;ugebwrg gets 900bhp, so is also up in Bugatti territory.

Oh, whoever said a muscle car cant handle, your dead fucking wrong. Any car can do anything if built to do it properly.
Straight out of the box, completely stock, with no modification, a Mustang will handle as well as an M3?

Of course there are going to be exceptions, but as a general rule stock muscle cars are not great handlers.

haha ya like the tatra cool looking car 1959 tatra v8 air - cooled... i my self think all of the cars out now are ass ugly...
I do not like the looks of most vehicles these days, but I am not really one to give any opinion. All I do is drive, wash, wax and brig her to the shop. The Russian cars really hold up though. They also look decent. Not to mention they should be easy to repair, considering how old some of the models are I see rolling about. Major plus for easy fixability and flexability. One of the reasons why I will not purchase ( too ) foreigen vehicles.

Heh, an speedy little Bug. :p

Straight out of the box, completely stock, with no modification, a Mustang will handle as well as an M3?

Of course there are going to be exceptions, but as a general rule stock muscle cars are not great handlers.

I have a video of a STOCK '04 Ford Cobra whuping all comers on a track. Two Ms, an AMG, and two Z06 Corvettes. Another video of a WS6 with the only modification being a set of sticky tires pulling away from an M3 around Laguna Seca. So yes, with the right driver, it can. My Trans Am held its own pretty well until I started fucking with the suspension to get better 1/4 mile times. With equal drivers, an F Body with the 1LE package or a Ford Cobra against a E46 M will be a very close, very exciting race.

I have a video of a STOCK '04 Ford Cobra whuping all comers on a track. Two Ms, an AMG, and two Z06 Corvettes. Another video of a WS6 with the only modification being a set of sticky tires pulling away from an M3 around Laguna Seca. So yes, with the right driver, it can. My Trans Am held its own pretty well until I started fucking with the suspension to get better 1/4 mile times. With equal drivers, an F Body with the 1LE package or a Ford Cobra against a E46 M will be a very close, very exciting race.

I was talking about a handling comparison, not how quick it is round a circuit

Anyhow...you must have missed this:
Of course there are going to be exceptions

?


Now, back to that stock Mustang against an M3. Not in how quickly it will go round a circuit, or how fast it is in a straight line, but how well it handles. Everything I've read and driven suggests to me that the M3 will handle better.

Now, back to that stock Mustang against an M3. Not in how quickly it will go round a circuit, or how fast it is in a straight line, but how well it handles. Everything I've read and driven suggests to me that the M3 will handle better.

Have you ever driven a Mustang Cobra? With its IRS, it handles damned well. And I really don't care about what is said in a magazine, what matters is real world performance. With equal drivers, a Cobra will handle just as well as an M3. You cant compare the basline 'Stang GT to a an M3, just like you can't compare it to an SS/WS6.

Oh, and going around a track is pretty much the best way to determine if a car handles well.

Have you ever driven a Mustang Cobra? With its IRS, it handles damned well. And I really don't care about what is said in a magazine, what matters is real world performance. With equal drivers, a Cobra will handle just as well as an M3. You cant compare the basline 'Stang GT to a an M3, just like you can't compare it to an SS/WS6.

I've driven an M3 on a track, so I have some idea of what to compare a journalists words to. And a proper car journalists...a man whose job it is to objectively compare cars for a respected motoring magazine.

Oh, and going around a track is pretty much the best way to determine if a car handles well.
Well, for track handling, yes. Roads aren't as good surfaces as tracks, unfortunately, and cars handle differently there.

I've driven an M3 on a track, so I have some idea of what to compare a journalists words to. And a proper car journalists...a man whose job it is to objectively compare cars for a respected motoring magazine. I'm not talking about an M3. Have you ever driven a Mustang Cobra? I have driven both on the track, the only street driving I've done of an M3 was a stock E46 SMG. The M3 was an E36, the Cobra an 04, so given this, the Mustang handled much better. However, comparing a Cobra, or an Fbody with the 1LE package, to an M3 will get you a close race, all dependant on driver.


Well, for track handling, yes. Roads aren't as good surfaces as tracks, unfortunately, and cars handle differently there.Yeah, but 90% of the people on here wouldn't even know or notice the difference, and not all that many people here or in the real world do any sort of performance driving on the street, so they wouldn't even give two shits. However, haven driven a Cobra and E46 on the streets very agressively (in straight lines and through the twisties), I can say with perfect objectiveness (I own a BMW, I love BMWs, I want to continue owning BMWs for as long as I drive, with an Audi and Nissan in my garrage as well to keep things fun), that they both handle very well, and given equal drivers, the Cobra can handle just as well as the M3.

The M3 and the Mustang (it whatever guises) are entirely different cars. No, the Mustang cannot possibly handle as well as an M3, because that is not what it is built for.

There are only two current American cars out of the top of my head who could qualify as serious sports cars as I understand it, and that is the new Corvette Z06 and the Saleen.

Some others might have serious performance, but it is obviously not meant to actually be used, but rather to make the car make a lot of noise and otherwise feel special.

I myself will get myself either a new Mitsubishi Evo or a 350Z when I finish Uni. Then I'll upgrade to an Exige S. Mmmmhhhh....

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/picture_library/dir_27/car_portal_pic_13778.jpg

The M3 and the Mustang (it whatever guises) are entirely different cars. No, the Mustang cannot possibly handle as well as an M3, because that is not what it is built for.
Well, that goes right back to my actual point. Muscle cars, as a general rule and with exceptions, just don't handle particularly brilliantly. That's been my point all along; no more, no less.

BMW is my favorite car makers because they are German and Germans have best engineers

The M3 and the Mustang (it whatever guises) are entirely different cars. No, the Mustang cannot possibly handle as well as an M3, because that is not what it is built for. And how many Cobras and M3s do you have seat time on? How much track time do you have? How many times have you raced in and against each?

There are only two current American cars out of the top of my head who could qualify as serious sports cars as I understand it, and that is the new Corvette Z06 and the Saleen. What about the Viper and the GT? Or any of the low production number super cars we crank out? And that new Shleby is supposed to be a fucking beast.

I myself will get myself either a new Mitsubishi Evo or a 350Z when I finish Uni. Then I'll upgrade to an Exige S. Mmmmhhhh....350Z is overrated, with an insanely heavy clutch, and sub par excelleration with a rather large V6. The Evo is nice, but youd better be looking at one of the IXs with the new hotside turbo. More power, more response to mods, all around better car. I'm not a huge fan of AWD though, I prefere RWD. I hate FWD with a passion. Only owned one FWD car ever, and it was the one I was purposely trying to break (Eclipse GS-T). I've worked on an Elise, but never drove one.

It used to be the Europeans. But as far as the cars with the best saftey ratings, fuel efficiency, and affordability, the Koreans and the Japanese have the market cornered. They dont look as nice as European cars, but they get the job done. Look at Hyundai, Daewoo, and Toyota (it started as a Japanese brand I dont know if it still is). But even though the Asians make the best cars, I will support the local economy and buy a Ford Ranger. Built FORD TOUGH, Made in the USA. :cool:

yes Europe used to make the best cars, but i would have to say safety is the most important thing and Asian car companies make the safest cars, overall. their cars also make the highest scores on all the crash tests.
i just think these are cool.:gundge: :sniper:

this has become a serious boast-fest :eek: :rolleyes:

Well, that goes right back to my actual point. Muscle cars, as a general rule and with exceptions, just don't handle particularly brilliantly. That's been my point all along; no more, no less.

The only modern day muscle car, the GTO, pulls better times around a track than a STi.

Oh, and to the numerous comments about supporting the local economy...Most Toyotas and Hondas we get are made in the states, while the "American Icon" Camaros/Trans Ams were made in Canada...

The only modern day muscle car, the GTO, pulls better times around a track than a STi.

That's irrelevent.

But, if you want to take it like that, put a GTO on a loose surface and see how well it does compared to an STi.

And how many Cobras and M3s do you have seat time on? How much track time do you have? How many times have you raced in and against each?
Does it matter? Either you build a car from the ground up for handling and handling only, as with the M3, or you design it to be a "muscle car" like the Mustang.
The trick here is that traditionally M-cars are developed seperately from the standard BMWs. The Cobra is just a Mustang with mods, isn't it?

What about the Viper and the GT?
The Viper doesn't count. It can't even go in a straight line without traction control.
The GT I forgot, that does count as well.

Or any of the low production number super cars we crank out?
That's why I said "out of the top of my head".

And that new Shleby is supposed to be a fucking beast.
It can be a "beast", but that might not help it in terms of handling. The magazine that I usually read, Evo, does very good tests on real roads. Again and again they have found that American cars are "soft around the edges". Their damping is a little softer, their gearboxes slower and so on. I don't doubt that American firms can produce great sports cars (and occasionally they do), but you can't deny that the US market asks for a less hardcore demeanour from their cars generally.
I mean, they built a Corvette Auto, for crying out loud!

That's irrelevent.

But, if you want to take it like that, put a GTO on a loose surface and see how well it does compared to an STi.

It's not irrelevent at all. The STi that gets sold to the public, not the hard driving stripped out up boosted and modified rally car, is advertised as being a great handling fast street car. The GTO handles better and is faster. You go grab an STi of a show room floor and take it out to a dirt road, and try to run it with those compition STis and EVOs, it will get its shit stomped hard.

The only modern day muscle car, the GTO, pulls better times around a track than a STi.
Australia, as you might know, is a "muscle car" sort of place (indeed, the GTO is, I believe, just a modified Australian Holden).

They have a truly awesome motorsport series here, called "Australian Performance Car Championship". In that series M3s, RX-7s and 350Zs can be found, but mainly HSV and FPV musclecars, against Evos and WRXs.

The racing is incredibly close, because on some tracks the AWD cars can pull ahead (for example on tracks with many long corners), on others the big V8s take it (for example on tracks with really long straights).

So what I'm saying is that, as with everything, it depends. In this case on the type of track you're using.

Have a look: http://www.performanceracing.net.au/

It's not irrelevent at all. The STi that gets sold to the public, not the hard driving stripped out up boosted and modified rally car, is advertised as being a great handling fast street car.

Maybe where you live, but where I live the STi gets advertised as being the direct descendent of the rally car, and fairly capable on the loose.

Now, any car enthusiast knows it's not; but it just goes to show how pointless using advertising as a base to attribute abilities to a car is.

The GTO handles better and is faster. You go grab an STi of a show room floor and take it out to a dirt road, and try to run it with those compition STis and EVOs, it will get its shit stomped hard.

Where did I mention competition cars? I don't believe I did.

Of course it would get kicked by the rally prepped cars on a dirt road; they're rally prepped cars on a dirt. It's not. It would get beaten on a dirt road by competition cars.

It would not, however, get beaten on a dirt road by a GTO with the same driver.

Does it matter? Either you build a car from the ground up for handling and handling only, as with the M3, or you design it to be a "muscle car" like the Mustang.
The trick here is that traditionally M-cars are developed seperately from the standard BMWs. The Cobra is just a Mustang with mods, isn't it?

No. Saying the Cobra is just a Mustang with mods is like saying that the M3 is just a 330ci ZHP with mods.


The Viper doesn't count. It can't even go in a straight line without traction control. The GT I forgot, that does count as well. So I guess the CL65 AMG isn't a real sports car either becuase it cant go, period, without traction control. And Vipers, from my understanding, handle very well. I've yet to read about any Viper owners who track their cars regularly complaining about handling issues.

It can be a "beast", but that might not help it in terms of handling. The magazine that I usually read, Evo, does very good tests on real roads. Again and again they have found that American cars are "soft around the edges". Their damping is a little softer, their gearboxes slower and so on. I don't doubt that American firms can produce great sports cars (and occasionally they do), but you can't deny that the US market asks for a less hardcore demeanour from their cars generally.
I mean, they built a Corvette Auto, for crying out loud!

They've built Auto M3s. And to make up for the Auto Corvette, they go and produce teh C6 Z06 that, with drag slicks and yanking the airbox can run a ten second 1/4 mile, outhandle Porsches on the Nordschlife, and is currently the only true sports car around that doesn't get smacked with a gasguzzler tax here in the states.

Listen, I love European cars. I truely do. I have onwned 3 BMWs, my family has owned two more, an Audi, and three Mercedes Benz's. I grew up riding in them and learned how to drive in one. Honestly, after owning my Trans Am, and test driving a number of 'Maros becuase I was thinking of picking another one up, I don't see my self going back to American cars anytime soon, unless it is a Corvette. But you guys have to give the devil his due.

I'm seeing this very strong case of "well, its not European, so it automatically sucks." When I see that, I get the same anoyance that I get when I see the "American Cars Rule! Who wants to see my Mullet" and the "Asian carz R teh Haxorzzz extreme d00ds my turbo of d00m will endjoooewoooooaososoasd!!!!!111!!". Its fucking stupid. I've seen it with my own eyes, and on videos, and heard it from reliable sources. American "muscle cars" (which there are non anymore, save the GTO, which is getting nixxed) can handle just as well as a comparable European cars.

And fine, I can play devil's advocate too. If German engineering is so great, and so amazing, and so awesome, then how come the S54B32 in the M3s were blowing up, the 7 serries has had many complaints about its electrical system, using the words 'reliable' and 'VAG electronics' in the same sentence is a bad idea, Mercedes Benz is dying in reliability ratings, and the exhaust systems on Porsches were falling off?

I voted European,

The Asians (especially Japan) make the most reliable cars but Europeans make the best aspirational cars. Especially (if not exclusively) the Italians, Germans and British.

Lamborghini mmmmm, maybe not the best but they look damn good.

And fine, I can play devil's advocate too. If German engineering is so great, and so amazing, and so awesome, then how come the S54B32 in the M3s were blowing up, the 7 serries has had many complaints about its electrical system, using the words 'reliable' and 'VAG electronics' in the same sentence is a bad idea, Mercedes Benz is dying in reliability ratings, and the exhaust systems on Porsches were falling off?

Because most of them are no longer built using "German engineering" and are, in fact, built in various countries?

Because most of them are no longer built using "German engineering" and are, in fact, built in various countries?

All the ones I mentioned, to the last time I checked, were still being built in Germany and Austria, not the American plants.

So I guess the CL65 AMG isn't a real sports car either becuase it cant go, period, without traction control.
Don't get me started on that unnecessary piece of crap.

And Vipers, from my understanding, handle very well. I've yet to read about any Viper owners who track their cars regularly complaining about handling issues.
Maybe because Viper owners are not the type to do that?

Since I'm not in the market yet, the only source of this kind of info is motoring journalism. And this article in particular:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/driven/52255/dodge_srt10.html

They've built Auto M3s.
I know. And I'm not about to forgive them. But then, I was under the impression that the Corvette is still a step or two above the M3 in terms of sportiness.

And to make up for the Auto Corvette, they go and produce teh C6 Z06 that, with drag slicks and yanking the airbox can run a ten second 1/4 mile, outhandle Porsches on the Nordschlife, and is currently the only true sports car around that doesn't get smacked with a gasguzzler tax here in the states.
Other than the "outhandling Porsches", I'll give you that. Depends on what sort of Porsche you are looking at - and the question what a fast lap demands of the driver. Many firms have taken to use the Nordschleife as the one criterion. Porsche does test driving there, but the time isn't the ultimately important thing to them, but how much the driver would enjoy such a lap.

And fine, I can play devil's advocate too. If German engineering is so great, and so amazing, and so awesome, then how come the S54B32 in the M3s were blowing up, the 7 serries has had many complaints about its electrical system, using the words 'reliable' and 'VAG electronics' in the same sentence is a bad idea, Mercedes Benz is dying in reliability ratings, and the exhaust systems on Porsches were falling off?
Well, firstly I don't work for any of these companies (yet), so I can't tell you.

I know however that Mercedes admitted that they used technology that they shouldn't have used yet in an attempt to stay at the front in the innovation stakes.

Porsche I do take exception to though. I never heard of any widespread reliability issues with those cars, and even Markreich's post earlier in this thread talked about the Cayenne as being the sole source of the slip in ratings (and that is built in Bratislava alongside the VW Touareg - and if you buy an SUV I hope the breaks are the thing that fails while you drive your snotty kids to school...).
And if you look at the sales figures, it seems that Porsche continues to do quite well, so most customers seem to agree with me.

All the ones I mentioned, to the last time I checked, were still being built in Germany and Austria, not the American plants.
Ah, well I was referring more to the "Mercedes Benz is dying in reliability ratings, and the exhaust systems on Porsches were falling off", which is a generalisation and can apply to any and all cars manufactured by them.

Anyhow, the UK has yet to see any of the reliability issues you mentioned there or, at least, it's yet to come to the attention of the wider motoring press.

Granted, Merc's reliability and build quality had dropped significantly for a few years, but by all accounts their latest generation of models goes back to their previous exemplary levels.

Anyhow, the UK has yet to see any of the reliability issues you mentioned there or, at least, it's yet to come to the attention of the wider motoring press.

People drive in the UK? I was under the impression you all spent your time pushing your Astons and Jags, not actually driving them.

Anyways, I could argue this topic for days. I could get all the supporting evidence I needed, from both personal expirence and second hand knowledge (Magazines, Videos, Etc.). The fact is, I really don't need to waste my time proving to you all that current domestic cars are just as reliable and handle just as well as the Euro/Japanese brands.

Your all forgetting the bigest, most important aspect of what a car can do. The one key to all automotive performance isn't the motor, the ecu, the suspension, none of that. Its the driver. I've seen stock M3s cut twelve second 1/4 mile times. I've seen stock Fords and Chevys rip The Ultimate Driving Machine to shreads around road courses and tracks. I've seen fifteen year old five cylinder Audis out run and out handle track built performance cars. It all comes down to the driver, and what his skills are. A vehicle is nothing more than a tool, a means to an end. It is the driver that makes the difference.



Oh, and Neu Leonstein, you are correct, the GTO is based of the Holden Monaro. Its also built of the Catera...the Caddy that ziggs.

BMW is my favorite car makers because they are German and Germans have best engineers

Obviously! Who could have forgotten this little gem?

http://www.abc.se/~m9805/eastcars/trabant/016_16.jpg
Trabant 601

People drive in the UK? I was under the impression you all spent your time pushing your Astons and Jags, not actually driving them.

No, no, you've got it all wrong. It's TVRs that we spend all day pushing ;)

Anyways, I could argue this topic for days. I could get all the supporting evidence I needed, from both personal expirence and second hand knowledge (Magazines, Videos, Etc.). The fact is, I really don't need to waste my time proving to you all that current domestic cars are just as reliable and handle just as well as the Euro/Japanese brands.

I think I'll leave the last word in this matter to Autocar, possibly the most respected motoring magazine worldwide.

Car 1:
Despite its massive performance, the *carname*'s on-road behaviour strikes an almost perfect balance between supple tourer and hard-edged racer – the chassis and suspension play strong supporting roles to that astounding engine. This balance means the *carname* can be pushed very quickly and confidently down virtually any road. There’s little roll even in the most aggressively taken corners, and body control at all speeds is exceptional.The combination of the chassis’ beautifully neutral balance and the generous footprint translates into a phenomenal level of grip. The steering supplies your hands with a constant flow of details.

Car 2:
The new *carname* has loads of grip and progressive, transient manners and damping control. Pushing the tail wide with the throttle if you switch the traction control off doesn’t reveal any nasty surprises. The steering is direct and deftly weighted, too, if not exactly bubbling with feedback. As a result, the *carname* feels sharp and agile. But, ultimately, the live axle does draw attention to itself, making the ride chronically fidgety and sapping confidence when you really start to push on. The softening of the brake pedal after hard use chimes another alarm.

It's up to you to decide which was the 'Stang, and which was the M3.

Your all forgetting the bigest, most important aspect of what a car can do. The one key to all automotive performance isn't the motor, the ecu, the suspension, none of that. Its the driver. I've seen stock M3s cut twelve second 1/4 mile times. I've seen stock Fords and Chevys rip The Ultimate Driving Machine to shreads around road courses and tracks. I've seen fifteen year old five cylinder Audis out run and out handle track built performance cars. It all comes down to the driver, and what his skills are. A vehicle is nothing more than a tool, a means to an end. It is the driver that makes the difference.

And that's a cop out, as I think the fact that the cars are to be compared with the same driver and under similar conditions is fairly clear, if unwritten, throughout this thread.

Obviously! Who could have forgotten this little gem?
Hey, if you could get over the smell, they were clearly among the best Warsaw-Bloc cars.

I think that the French cars are the coolest European cars, but the best would have to be Dodge. I mean without Dodge and Jeep we would not have ambulances. You do have to give credit to Ford because of their assembly line.

Hey, if you could get over the smell, they were clearly among the best Warsaw-Bloc cars.

Can't have been that bad, there's still many on the roads and you can fix them with some tape and a screwdriver.

shiendler wagonbau a.g.
alsthome
bombardier
marine iron works of portland or (zooliner)

=^^=
.../\...

I like just about everything Germany makes...even BMW...a little...the Art Cars are cool...

*snip*

Oh, and Neu Leonstein, you are correct, the GTO is based of the Holden Monaro. Its also built of the Catera...the Caddy that ziggs.

The GTO is the same as the Holden Monaro, just modified slightly so we can export it to the USA. The Monaro is a coupe version of the Holden Commodore sedan, the original design of which came from the Opel Catera, but is now substantially different.

But as far as the cars with the best saftey ratings, fuel efficiency, and affordability, the Koreans and the Japanese have the market cornered. They dont look as nice as European cars, but they get the job done. Look at Hyundai, Daewoo...snip
I can't believe someone just suggested Korean cars as the best in the world. :eek:

I myself will get myself either a new Mitsubishi Evo or a 350Z when I finish Uni. Then I'll upgrade to an Exige S. Mmmmhhhh....

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/picture_library/dir_27/car_portal_pic_13778.jpg
There's a mildly diverting Lotus game here: http://www.topgear.com/content/timetoburn/sections/games/

If we're talking about normal, every-day, practical cars, then IMO:

Europe makes some of the most luxurious, technologically advanced of the 'average' vehicles out there. They are quite expensive, however, and their reliability is suspect compared to Asian rivals. They have good styling too. Though I don't generally include Fiat in the advanced and luxurious bit, their new Punto is an awesome-looking vehicle.

The Asian market offers us affordable reliability, and they've started cramming some gadgets into them too. They lack the luxury and quality of European rivals though, and anybody who says otherwise simply hasn't compared the interiors. Their cheap and often awesome roadsters and sports cars are a god send to those of us who can't afford a ridiculously expensive European sports car, or don't want a ridiculously unsporty American sports car.

There aren't really many American-built and designed 'normal' cars here. Ford Europe has a completely separate range here aside from the Focus. And there are pretty good reasons for that. Aside from being gas guzzlers and often fairly ugly, they are built cheaply. The interiors are even worse than Asian rivals (even including Ford Europe, sometimes -- the previous refit of the Fiesta was renowned for having a poor-quality interior, for example), and their exteriors don't exactly feel solid either. The American idea of luxury seems to be almost entirely limited to making it 'bigger', which is incidentally their take on safety as well. But that doesn't help their handling or make them easier to drive on narrow European roads. And, can you say leaf springs? The only thing they have in their favour is price, and that is a reduced advantage when you take into account fuel consumption and European taxes.

European cars. Mainly cause my Mum has one. A nice BMW.

Audi make the best cars

Hey, if you could get over the smell, they were clearly among the best Warsaw-Bloc cars.

BAH! Me and my Skoda would have TOASTED that back in the day! ;)

Who? Why, Why not? My fav cars are European. Not only they look so beautiful, but also classy and technologic. Discuss if you are into cars.
Mine too. :)

I love Trans Ams, therefore I love Pontiac. Really though, I don't think that American cars are poorly made, others are just better, but come with a higher price tag. I don't think that any country in the world can make sweeter cars than good American muscle, I think that Trans Ams and Mustangs are especially sweet cars. I mean jaqs? Those are not built to last. I must say that I do drive a fuel-injected Datsun 280z, or I will in the future, so I guess that kind of makes me a hypocrite. Whatever, Go Pontiac!! Wooot!!! GM is in the trash! USA! USA! USA!

I love Trans Ams, therefore I love Pontiac. Really though, I don't think that American cars are poorly made, others are just better, but come with a higher price tag. I don't think that any country in the world can make sweeter cars than good American muscle, I think that Trans Ams and Mustangs are especially sweet cars. I mean jaqs? Those are not built to last. I must say that I do drive a fuel-injected Datsun 280z, or I will in the future, so I guess that kind of makes me a hypocrite. Whatever, Go Pontiac!! Wooot!!! GM is in the trash! USA! USA! USA!
I'm a little confused-Pontiac is a GM brand...

And build quality equates to longevity in most cases-those plastic fantastic GM interiors aren't for the long run, not like the brushed aluminum and walnut finishes of cars like Jaguars. And again, it's hard to argue with a car in the Smithsonian...

Who? Why, Why not? My fav cars are European. Not only they look so beautiful, but also classy and technologic. Discuss if you are into cars.


i would say the euros,but the vette smokes cars twice it's price...go vette!

BAH! Me and my Skoda would have TOASTED that back in the day! ;)

Using the rear window demister of course. (Which was only fitted to keep your hands from freezing while you pushed. :p )

I love all these "Germans make the best" comments, given the Mercedes is currently in the toilet, BMW is slipping, and VW isn't doing that well:

No Mercedes-Benz vehicle earns a "recommended" from Consumer Reports. Mercedes-Benz also is worst in the list of how well five-year-old vehicles held up. Mercedes-Benz did not respond to requests for comment.

German brands BMW, Audi and Volkswagen also are in the bottom half of the reliability rankings, and relatively few of their models earn a "recommended."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-03-01-consumer-reports-reliability_x.htm

I agree which is why I have a mark 4 golf, VW are not the same as they were. I tested the mark 5 golf the same time as the one I own and I couldn't believe how cheap and plastic it felt. I have heard that VAG has basically spent too much time with Bugatti since they took them over and as a result the overall quality of their other cars has gone down, which is a shame.
My next car will probably be a Jap, either a Subaru Impreza or Mitsubishi Evo - can't go wrong :)

I agree which is why I have a mark 4 golf, VW are not the same as they were. I tested the mark 5 golf the same time as the one I own and I couldn't believe how cheap and plastic it felt. I have heard that VAG has basically spent too much time with Bugatti since they took them over and as a result the overall quality of their other cars has gone down, which is a shame.
My next car will probably be a Jap, either a Subaru Impreza or Mitsubishi Evo - can't go wrong :)
You complain about the interior quality of a Golf (which is fantastic), yet you'll be getting an Impreza?

I agree which is why I have a mark 4 golf, VW are not the same as they were. I tested the mark 5 golf the same time as the one I own and I couldn't believe how cheap and plastic it felt. I have heard that VAG has basically spent too much time with Bugatti since they took them over and as a result the overall quality of their other cars has gone down, which is a shame.
My next car will probably be a Jap, either a Subaru Impreza or Mitsubishi Evo - can't go wrong :)

Be careful with the Mitsubishi. There is a chance that they may withdraw from the US market.

Be careful with the Mitsubishi. There is a chance that they may withdraw from the US market.
I keep thinking that they already have.

I wish Peugot will start selling here again, they're missing out on the hot hatch market out here-the street racing crowd.

Or Renault, but that's just because I want the Clio V6, but since I couldn't afford it it probably doesn't make a difference-except someone around here would buy one and I'd get to see it rip around these roads...

Americans build the best cars. In Honda plants.

http://world.honda.com/HondaManufacturingAlabama/

I keep thinking that they already have.

I wish Peugot will start selling here again, they're missing out on the hot hatch market out here-the street racing crowd.

Or Renault, but that's just because I want the Clio V6, but since I couldn't afford it it probably doesn't make a difference-except someone around here would buy one and I'd get to see it rip around these roads...

Shame that, they definitely make some of the best hot hatches going around. The new Golf GTi is available in the US though, & it's very highly rated.

Shame that, they definitely make some of the best hot hatches going around. The new Golf GTi is available in the US though, & it's very highly rated.
I definately like the new Golf GTi. I liked the R32 as well, even though I didn't know they where selling it here until after the fact. Again, not that it would have mattered, but still...The Peugot would be a nice addition to see out here, or the Cleo...

I think Japanese cars are admireable because of their fuel efficiency, low price, and reliability. And don't look too bad either. Fx. Mazda 3 is an absolutely beautiful car. :fluffle:

But still, not minding the pricetag, I prefer European cars. Especially German ones. They are perfection itself.

I can't remember wether Maybach is European or American but they make some pretty neat cars too.

Be careful with the Mitsubishi. There is a chance that they may withdraw from the US market.

I live in the UK though... ;)

You complain about the interior quality of a Golf (which is fantastic), yet you'll be getting an Impreza?

I meant the mark 5 golf, the interior of the mark 4 is very good quality. I found the 5 to feel very cheap in comparison. Are the Impreza's not too good on the inside? I've driven an Evo but not the Mitsi yet...

Right now I drive a Benz Turbo Diesel. Awesome car, 5000 pounds rolling weight, heavy, big, reliable, and gets 30MPG around town. I'll keep this car probably until 500k or so. Not to mention I get about 1350 miles a tank on 45 gallons of diesel.

My favorite cars, however, are Toyotas. I LOVE Tacomas. I'm going to get a nice big 4x4 V6 double cab for my BOV/Daily driver. Plenty of room for all my stuff and it'll be great when I get married and have a family.

A wealthy friend of mine has just got himself an Aston Martin DB9. It is......TOTALLY........A......MA.....ZING!

A wealthy friend of mine has just got himself an Aston Martin DB9. It is......TOTALLY........A......MA.....ZING!

nice!!! ;)

I live in the UK though... ;)



I meant the mark 5 golf, the interior of the mark 4 is very good quality. I found the 5 to feel very cheap in comparison. Are the Impreza's not too good on the inside? I've driven an Evo but not the Mitsi yet...
Really? I thought the mark 5 was very good inside.

Evos are Mitsubishis...

The obvious answer is Japan.
Quoted for truth.

Good grief -- put down the damned espresso and drive the car! Put down the hairbrush and drive the car!
I would, but there's no cupholder to put it down in.

HEATHEN! :p

How could you not think it looks absolutely fantastic.

And the speed and general great sound of the engine does help...

http://wallpaper.net.au/wallpaper/automotive/Pagini%20Zonda%20S%207.3%20-%20800x600.jpg
Beautiful.

Really? I thought the mark 5 was very good inside.

Evos are Mitsubishis...

My bad, I meant: I've driven an Evo but not the subaru. However, since then I have driven an Impreza. Yeah the interior was seriously lame but the engine, brakes, suspension, handling and speed more than makes up for that!!