NationStates Jolt Archive

So everyone has heard about the rising gas and oil prices. Many of you reading this have to deal with it on a regular basis. Do you know whay prices are on the rise? I do, and let me enlighten you:

1. Oil is more expensive because
a) A growing Chinese industry and economy is placing more demands on oil. China is abandoning the bicycle and replacing it with automobiles. By 2015, the Chinese government expects to unveil the first domestic car company.
b) Insurance on oil tankers has gone up, especially due to that pesky non-existant thing called global warming. Additionally, the threat of an attack on American-bound tankers raises insurance costs tremendously.

But, none of that actually has <I>anything</I> to do with the cost of gasoline.

2. Gas is more expensive because
a) Imported cars, namely the late-model Honda Civic, get over thirty miles per gallon. The '05 Civic, which gets 39 MPG/city, is incredibly devastating at the pump because it's never there.
b) Since gasoline is primarily a demand industry with little competition on the supplying end, companies like Exxon, Shell, and Mobil can charge as much as they want to make up for net losses. Or, they can do it just to make themselves richer.

So on Monday, May 15th, don't buy any gas. Load up on Sunday if you have to, or push that tank until Tuesday. Show yourselves how badly you can hurt these companies. Force them to make greater strides in the field of alternative fuel. Don't let them get their grubby little hands on every alternative fuel outlet, because then we'll be in the same situation ten years later.

If you ever thought you could make a difference, this is really your chance. If you think we can't make a change, prove us wrong.

Peace, love, and revolution;
King Jake

This won't do anything at all. People are still going to buy the same amount of gas. They may not buy it on Monday, but in the end, the hand just as much money over to the oil companies.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp

Snopes, as usual, nails it on the head about how silly this is.

BTW, I pay well over $5 a gallon in Japan (it's 135 yen a litter right now), so please don't even start about how much gas costs.

Everytime gas prices go up, numbers at the pump drop sharply. For one day. It's not going to work, because everyone will still hand over the same amount of money just on another day..

This won't do anything at all. People are still going to buy the same amount of gas. They may not buy it on Monday, but in the end, the hand just as much money over to the oil companies.

Oil companies rely on a constant flow of money to balance their stocks. This affects them in a few ways

First, investors are "sketchy" at best at the recent triumphs of oil companies now that the military is in the Middle East...again. If they see a stock drop on monday (which they will if people don't hit the pump that morning) then people will start selling off. The first effects of a pump boycott will be felt on the east coast and ripple west. It might even affect international economies since oil companies influence everything now.

I alluded to my second point above. Companies like Exxon and others are extended into a lot of international markets. Faltering stocks in their base will affect their influence internationally and force some sort of concession, or at least a reevaluation of strategy.

Or they could just be stubborn and strangle the oil supply. Any combination of events is possible, but it does not negate the fact that this must happen, whether it be to just mobilize America or to convey a message to U.S. citizens.

Everytime gas prices go up, numbers at the pump drop sharply. For one day. It's not going to work, because everyone will still hand over the same amount of money just on another day..
If they manage to get a couple million people to do it for a week, they may raise their eyebrow at it.

Where’s the ‘America still has some of the cheapest petroleum in the world and frankly I wouldn’t care except they’re responsible for a stupidly disproportionate % of global greenhouse emissions’ option?

Oil companies rely on a constant flow of money to balance their stocks. This affects them in a few ways

First, investors are "sketchy" at best at the recent triumphs of oil companies now that the military is in the Middle East...again. If they see a stock drop on monday (which they will if people don't hit the pump that morning) then people will start selling off. The first effects of a pump boycott will be felt on the east coast and ripple west. It might even affect international economies since oil companies influence everything now.

I alluded to my second point above. Companies like Exxon and others are extended into a lot of international markets. Faltering stocks in their base will affect their influence internationally and force some sort of concession, or at least a reevaluation of strategy.

Or they could just be stubborn and strangle the oil supply. Any combination of events is possible, but it does not negate the fact that this must happen, whether it be to just mobilize America or to convey a message to U.S. citizens.People not buying gas for one day will not cause a mass reduction in stock price. The oil execs will notice no difference in there profits. You told us to either fill up Sunday, or hold out till Tuesday. So they are going to have a good Sunday, a lousey Monday, then a good Tuesday. I would be suprised if they even noticed this "protest".

Also, you claim the the oil companie's monopoly allow them to overcharge and bring in huge profits. Why the hell would there investors think things are 'sketchy,' if anything, they should be thinking buisness is great! With all this middle-east uncertainty, it will be easy to justify another rice increase.

It will not start in the east and then ripple west. It will not affect international markets. It will not be noticed.

should just start a bunch of new oil companies....when all the money is being spread thinner and thinner, that's when companies with the lowest prices will be gaining more profit than higher priced companies...i assume...i just wanted to add to the conversation, i never paid attention in economics

should just start a bunch of new oil companies....when all the money is being spread thinner and thinner, that's when companies with the lowest prices will be gaining more profit than higher priced companies...i assume...i just wanted to add to the conversation, i never paid attention in economics
I would like to see you get a foothold in the market.

So on Monday, May 15th, don't buy any gas. Load up on Sunday if you have to, or push that tank until Tuesday.

This will do bugger all for reasons already alluded to. Why not have a car pool week instead of a no fuel day? That way something helpful will actually be done.

What a waste of time, one day isn't going to make any difference. How about we start changing our habits; car pool, use public transport, etc?

Anyway, I filled up my car last week, so I won't need to do so for another 1-2 weeks.

This is why oil companies are laughing so hard. Because people are fundamentally clueless about how they work.

Let's protest the high prices of sneakers by not walking for a day!

*snip*

Hmmm, lets see.

Global warming non-existant claim. Check.
Blames high efficiency cars for high fuel prices. Check.
Thinks 39MPG is high. Check
Advocates sudden spike in fuel purchases on one day or extend to 2 days later. Check.

Conclusion:

SpectreX actually is a marketing slave for the oil companies. He's certainly no economist.

How's this for an idea:

Stop buying Petrol.

Not for one day.

Ever again.

Learn to cycle, walk or take a bus/train.

Quadruple shot there. Oil prices plummet, commercial oil use plummets (and all the associated energy and environmental issues associated with that), oil companies get a kick up the arse and you all get some freakin' exercise for a change.

How's this for an idea:

Stop buying Petrol.

Not for one day.

Ever again.

Learn to cycle, walk or take a bus/train.

Quadruple shot there. Oil prices plummet, commercial oil use plummets (and all the associated energy and environmental issues associated with that), oil companies get a kick up the arse and you all get some freakin' exercise for a change.

Second that.

In fact, I'm allready doing exactly that. Mainly because I live in the centrum and just don't need a car.

Though, I do have a cigarette lighter I fill up from time to time.

The fuel has already been sold several times. Each stage acts as a shock absorber, able to absorb a certain period of low sales without economic or logistical distress. By the time you get all the way back to the extraction stage, it would take a month of revenue loss for them to feel it, and until the next full quarterly result for the financial guys to groan at the figures.

A nationwide one-week boycott would result in...

- Pissed off petrol station franchise with full storage tanks, money spent and no sales.
- Bored tanker truck crews.
- Refinery topping up its refined products storage tanks. <--- The business-as-usual point.
- Sea tankers still in transit, oblivious to everything.
- Wells still flowing.
- Technology guys still working.
- Senior management looking at the refineries being unable to shift their refined products and wondering when the process starts flowing again.

So really you have managed to affect the bottom of the chain, most of which the oil companies don't even own.

On a scale of 1 to 10, gas prices are about a 0 on my "things to be concerned about" list. I'm not a tree hugger, i have no adgenda, i just don't care to spend my hard earned money on an unending need to burn more and more money. between payments on a loan, insurance, gas, you have to either be named gates, or shiek something or another. I just made a few simple descisions that negate the need to have a car. i live about a 20 minute walk, or 5 minute bike from work (where ironicly enough, we make transmission parts for cars and trucks). I live close to my family, friends and in a smaller town, can really bike anywhere in 45 minutes. If you really feel the need to have a car..... then quit bitchin about the need to feed your vehicle....

My godfather works for Royal Dutch Shell and wouldn't take too kindly to losing his job. What a preposterous idea!

If you *really* want to give one in the eye to the oil companies, buy a horse.

Otherwise, deal with it. If you drive everywhere, you're part of the problem, not the solution.

People not buying gas for one day will not cause a mass reduction in stock price. The oil execs will notice no difference in there profits. You told us to either fill up Sunday, or hold out till Tuesday. So they are going to have a good Sunday, a lousey Monday, then a good Tuesday. I would be suprised if they even noticed this "protest".

Also, you claim the the oil companie's monopoly allow them to overcharge and bring in huge profits. Why the hell would there investors think things are 'sketchy,' if anything, they should be thinking buisness is great! With all this middle-east uncertainty, it will be easy to justify another rice increase.

It will not start in the east and then ripple west. It will not affect international markets. It will not be noticed.

Agreed. These "Boycott Gas For a Day and Watch OPEC Fall to it's Knees" are absurd.

How's this for an idea:

Stop buying Petrol.

Not for one day.

Ever again.

Learn to cycle, walk or take a bus/train.

Quadruple shot there. Oil prices plummet, commercial oil use plummets (and all the associated energy and environmental issues associated with that), oil companies get a kick up the arse and you all get some freakin' exercise for a change.

Cheers to this plan. Get out of the Hummers, fatties.

80MPG is high not 39...

80MPG is high not 39...

Like I said, the op is probably a marketing slave for one of the oil companies trying to see if he can scaremonger up some business.

Where’s the ‘America still has some of the cheapest petroleum in the world

US petroleum is cheaper than in the Eurozone because unlike (say) the UK or Norway, it doesn't tax the bejesus out of it. Fuel in Europe is artificially expensive.

The current duty per litre is 50 pence ($3.40 per gallon), and even adjusting for inflation this is 75% higher than the 1990 level (see chart). The tax constitutes 60% of the price of fuel, which now stands at about 83 pence per litre ($5.65 per gallon, more than three times the U.S. price).

http://www.rff.org/rff/Publications/weathervane/Features/2000/RFF-Researcher-Discusses-High-UK-Gas-Tax.cfm

and frankly I wouldn’t care except they’re responsible for a stupidly disproportionate % of global greenhouse emissions’ option?

America is about 20% of the global economy and about 20% of global greenhouse emissions.

It's only disproportionate if one takes the silly view of per capita vs. world economic output. In which case, everybody adopt a hunter-gatherer lifestyle and set the calendar back to 200 BC or so... Because you've just eliminated economic competition.

The fuel has already been sold several times. Each stage acts as a shock absorber, able to absorb a certain period of low sales without economic or logistical distress. By the time you get all the way back to the extraction stage, it would take a month of revenue loss for them to feel it, and until the next full quarterly result for the financial guys to groan at the figures.

A nationwide one-week boycott would result in...

- Pissed off petrol station franchise with full storage tanks, money spent and no sales.
- Bored tanker truck crews.
- Refinery topping up its refined products storage tanks. <--- The business-as-usual point.
- Sea tankers still in transit, oblivious to everything.
- Wells still flowing.
- Technology guys still working.
- Senior management looking at the refineries being unable to shift their refined products and wondering when the process starts flowing again.

So really you have managed to affect the bottom of the chain, most of which the oil companies don't even own.

Spot on! Only the local stations would take a hit.

If someone really wants to effect energy consumption, you'd need a major campaign to get folks to insulate houses, set up wind and solar power generators at home, and drive less (and support higher fuel economy vehicles).

Check out: http://www.homepower.com/

Personally? I train the 65 miles to work every day, just reinsulated my house, and change my oil every 3000 miles and keep the tires inflated. Way too many people drive around and NEVER check their tires.

Hmmm, lets see.

Global warming non-existant claim. Check.
Blames high efficiency cars for high fuel prices. Check.
Thinks 39MPG is high. Check
Advocates sudden spike in fuel purchases on one day or extend to 2 days later. Check.

Conclusion:

SpectreX actually is a marketing slave for the oil companies. He's certainly no economist.

zing! :p

when will people realize that not buying gas for one day is like trying to stop a train with a pile of twigs?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp

But by all means, knock yourself out.

High prices are probably the best thing to happen to the US in a long time. They spur development of alternative fuels and encourage efficiency and conservation. In fact, two of the biggest nations exploring alternative energy besides the US are India and China; they plan to power their economic expansion from the start with alternatives rather than become dependent on resources that they have no control over.

I hope oil stays expensive for a long time; every year of high prices spurs at least five years of progress in alternatives, and it also encourages conservation and efficiency improvements that will benefit us both in the long and short term. Although there are negative effects in the short run from high prices, in the end we stand to benefit a lot both economically and environmentally.

Just like high prices for wood prompted the use of coal, the fuel which drove the industrial revolution, high prices for oil will drive the use of all alternatives for another economic revolution; however, this one will be much cleaner, much more widespread, and sustainable. We really are on the cusp of an energy revolution...exciting times to say the least.

So everyone has heard about the rising gas and oil prices. Many of you reading this have to deal with it on a regular basis. Do you know whay prices are on the rise? I do, and let me enlighten you:

1. Oil is more expensive because
a) A growing Chinese industry and economy is placing more demands on oil. China is abandoning the bicycle and replacing it with automobiles. By 2015, the Chinese government expects to unveil the first domestic car company.
b) Insurance on oil tankers has gone up, especially due to that pesky non-existant thing called global warming. Additionally, the threat of an attack on American-bound tankers raises insurance costs tremendously.

But, none of that actually has anything to do with the cost of gasoline.

Oh Christ, here we go again with this alarmist, anti-corporation bullshit. i'll say this once, and only once: the cost of oil is rising roughly in accordance with rising prices everywhere else in the market, as a result of inflation and so forth. Sure, gas costs twice as much as it did in the '80s, but most of us are also making at least twice as much money per year than they did back then. Gas prices are going up, but so are the prices for news anchors, systems analysts, and landscapers.

2. Gas is more expensive because
a) Imported cars, namely the late-model Honda Civic, get over thirty miles per gallon. The '05 Civic, which gets 39 MPG/city, is incredibly devastating at the pump because it's never there.
b) Since gasoline is primarily a demand industry with little competition on the supplying end, companies like Exxon, Shell, and Mobil can charge as much as they want to make up for net losses. Or, they can do it just to make themselves richer.
Gas companies in this country are not likely to be strapped for cash; not now, and not on May 15th. Of course they're charging as much as the market will allow--they're corporations. Anyone with two neurons to rub together for warmth would expect no less.

Furthermore, they don't "charge as much as they want," mainly because if they do they run the risk of their competitors charging a [i]reasonable amount--we can see this phenomenon daily on any city that happens to have one gas station across the street from the other. The only people in this country that routinely get away with collusion are farmers.

And finally, prices at the pump are set by negotiators--representing said gasoline concern, who barter with refiners and shippers to get their gasoline to the pumps for the least amount of money. They use gas too, so no one in their right mind is going to actually want gas prices to rise exorbitantly.

So on Monday, May 15th, don't buy any gas. Load up on Sunday if you have to, or push that tank until Tuesday. Show yourselves how badly you can hurt these companies. Force them to make greater strides in the field of alternative fuel. Don't let them get their grubby little hands on every alternative fuel outlet, because then we'll be in the same situation ten years later.

If you ever thought you could make a difference, this is really your chance. If you think we can't make a change, prove us wrong.

Peace, love, and revolution;
King Jake
Are you even marginally aware of what the rest of the world pays for gas? In France I'm sure its up to at least $8 on the gallon--of course they don't drive nearly as much as we do but we get better prices because the demand is higher here, and the market is enormous.

Your rant smacks of frantic anti-corporatism, but I should remind you that it was the Federal Government--not ExxonMobil--that built the fucking interstates that created this massive demand for oil in the first place. Before bitching about how much power these people have, you might want to take a close look at who gave it to them.

Moving right along, I'd also like to point out that with current drilling technology we can only empty 50 or so percent of any one oil reservoir we find. The drill goes in like a giant straw and rests on the bottom of the deposit, retracting upwards as it drains the oil. Once we figure out how to get that other half out, we've just doubled our oil supply. We're not nearly as close to running out as you are likely to believe.

And finally, I should point out that BP for one [and I suspect a handful of others] are in fact investigating alternative fuel sources. Car manufacturers, gas companies, and nearly everyone else in the private sector with a vested intereste in transportation [which is pretty much everyone] is frantically attempting to devise a viable alternative. The Federal Government, on the other hand, is doing no such thing; and if they are they're keeping it pretty quiet as far as I can tell. By suggesting that ExxonMobil, Shell, or whoever else are price grubbing lunatics that must be stopped, the obvious implication is that we turn over our energy concerns to the federal government, or some agency thereof. We all know how much more trustworthy our government is! :rolleyes:

If anything US prices are way too low, and encourage over-consumption. It would require seven Earths worth of resources to fuel a Western lifestyle for everyone. So stop bitching when the Chinese take a bit of oil for themselves. Americans having been taking much more for decades. Everyone must reduce consumption.

Stop driving altogether for journeys of under six miles or where you're not carrying heavy objects.

Your rant smacks of frantic anti-corporatism, but I should remind you that it was the Federal Government--not ExxonMobil--that built the fucking interstates that created this massive demand for oil in the first place. Before bitching about how much power these people have, you might want to take a close look at who gave it to them.
You make a good point Melkor, but I think governments should be blamed not so much for encouraging intercity driving, but for encouraging (or at least, failing to discourage) driving within cities that needlessly wastes oil for short journeys.

You'll be hurting the stations also. I'd say buy from smaller local companies like Ewing Oil. ;)

You make a good point Melkor, but I think governments should be blamed not so much for encouraging intercity driving, but for encouraging (or at least, failing to discourage) driving within cities that needlessly wastes oil for short journeys.
Patently incorrect. City planners routinely take pains to route street paths in such a way as to encourage the use of bicycles, busses, or subways. As my city expands, I've noticed it happening more and more too. My father is a civil engineer for the City, so I get the lowdown on all their little transportation tactics. Believe me, driving within cities is discouraged plenty.

Patently incorrect. City planners routinely take pains to route street paths in such a way as to encourage the use of bicycles, busses, or subways. As my city expands, I've noticed it happening more and more too. My father is a civil engineer for the City, so I get the lowdown on all their little transportation tactics. Believe me, driving within cities is discouraged plenty.
The metro planners here in Portland Oregon have been quoted as saying they want, and actively work toward LA style gridlock/traffic density in the Portland area.
They feel that once traffic density gets that high, people will be forced out of their cars and into other means of transportation.

Pretty much. There's a certain amount of people who will still do it anyway, but its silly to suggest that nothing is done to discourage using automobiles in major metropolitan areas.

Oh, and the Ali Staan post was me. Apparently my brother logged into his account while I wasn't looking :eek:

Sure, gas costs twice as much as it did in the '80s, but most of us are also making at least twice as much [if not more] money per year than they did back then. Gas prices are going up, but so are the prices for news anchors, systems analysts, and landscapers.


Real pump prices today are at the same level they were from 1919-1963 and 1979-1985. However, compared to then the costs as a percent of real wages is much lower than it was; gasoline in 1950 was only $0.25/gallon, but as a percent of real income that was a lot more money than it is today.

The ultralow prices of the 1990's were the lowest real prices ever since the CPI was collected; people don't realize that those prices were the anomaly, not the $3 gas that is on the high end of the average real range. If anything, we're returning to equilibrium given that the low oil prices of the 1990's were caused primarily by overproduction by OPEC and economic shocks that reduced demand.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp

Snopes, as usual, nails it on the head about how silly this is.

BTW, I pay well over $5 a gallon in Japan (it's 135 yen a litter right now), so please don't even start about how much gas costs.

dont the cars (if you can even call them cars) in japan get like 1000 miles to the gallon

Could i offer a very simple solution to offset your fuel price concerns? Buy oil stocks. Simple. Ok next problem?

Cheers to this plan. Get out of the Hummers, fatties.
Make me. ;)

Look guys, oil is more expensive than it was before, but it's still very bloody cheap. Considering that it is a limited resource drilled from deep underground in a foreign country, then refined and imported, then distributed and sold to you, it is extremely cheap. Taking into consideration all of the previous factors, don't you find it amazing that oil is cheaper (per litre) than coke?

In Europe, you will see prices as high as $6 and $7 a gallon compared to the US. This country is seeing a natural surge in gas prices as a result of SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Blaming Honda Civics (???) and the rise of the Chinese economy is ludicrous and demonstrates how little you know about economics and current issues worldwide. This kind of childish, reactionary and ignorant babble is more funny than useful. Check out the profits of all the major oil companies last year. Do you really think Americans are commited enough to enact a REAL boycott that will have any impact? Do you really believe that Americans are willing to make changes to their weak, fat, spoiled and wasteful lifestyles today? I don't think so.

Tips on saving money:

Trade in your goddamn SUV. No one NEEDS a Lincoln Navigator.
Change your driving habits to get things done more efficiently.
Invest in proper energy saving measures at home (proper insulation, cut back on A/C usage, etc)

And 4. GET OFF YOUR FAT LAZY ASSES AND WALK TO THE MARKET FOR A CHANGE.

In Europe, you will see prices as high as $6 and $7 a gallon compared to the US. This country is seeing a natural surge in gas prices as a result of SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Blaming Honda Civics (???) and the rise of the Chinese economy is ludicrous and demonstrates how little you know about economics and current issues worldwide. This kind of childish, reactionary and ignorant babble is more funny than useful. Check out the profits of all the major oil companies last year. Do you really think Americans are commited enough to enact a REAL boycott that will have any impact? Do you really believe that Americans are willing to make changes to their weak, fat, spoiled and wasteful lifestyles today? I don't think so.

Tips on saving money:

Trade in your goddamn SUV. No one NEEDS a Lincoln Navigator.
Change your driving habits to get things done more efficiently.
Invest in proper energy saving measures at home (proper insulation, cut back on A/C usage, etc)

And 4. GET OFF YOUR FAT LAZY ASSES AND WALK TO THE MARKET FOR A CHANGE.
While I agree with a lot of what you said, your condencending attitude makes your message fall on mostly deaf ears.
1. Trading in their SUV. Mostly a good idea. However, you have no idea what every families situation is. It's entirely possible that some family does indeed need a SUV. I drive a Ford Escape. It's an SUV. I have need for the space and carrying capacity.
2. Changing driving habits. Good advice. Not only to be more efficient, but driving at more efficient speeds as well. Ever driven the great Pendelton divide between San Diego and LA? You would be lucky if you could find a car that drives less than 80mph.
3.Invensting in energy saving measures at home. Good idea, but has nothing to do with gas prices.
4. Here you're being an ass yourself. Not everyone lives within walking distance to the store. Don't assume because people drive, they are lazy.

Why in the world would I want to hurt oil companies? Because they're making money? They're making that money rightfully...it's a supply and demand market and the product they have to supply is very much in demand right now. If we need it and they sell it, then what keeps them from charging us even more?
Actually, a bill has been proposed to put a heavier tax on big oil companies...specifically with Exxon in mind, since it is the epitomy of Big Business. What's that going to do, though, other than make them have to make up for lost profits by raising prices at the pumps?

Why do people get so foam-at-the-mouth enraged when you talk about corporations or big businesses? It's not like they're just robbing anyone they can wring a few dimes out of; they've earned the money they're making and had to work from the ground up, just like anyone. McDonald's started with one restaurant, serving hot dogs and orange juice...now look at them.
It's all in the way the company works, and if making money is evil, then why go into business in the first place?

I suggest Atlas Shrugged...Ayn Rand would be furious.