NationStates Jolt Archive

With all the immigration rallies in the news lately I ask myself and you this; should we be worried more about immigrants coming into this country and taking our unskilled labor jobs, or large corporations sending much of our skilled labor industries into other countries?
Both of these issues seem to affect the global marketplace and seem to be linked to me.

With all the immigration rallies in the news lately I ask myself and you this; should we be worried more about immigrants coming into this country and taking our unskilled labor jobs, or large corporations sending much of our skilled labor industries into other countries?
Both of these issues seem to affect the global marketplace and seem to be linked to me.

I think neither is a problem. But then I'm not much of a nationalist or anti-capitalist.

I think neither is a problem. But then I'm not much of a nationalist or anti-capitalist.

I agree. I'm not for or against, but wanted to discuss.

Skilled going overseas.

Another thing is I don't see the outsourcing issue as "corporations sending our skilled labor industries overseas." I see it as Americans being generally spoiled by expectations of higher wages and benefits (for less work, usually) and thus being out-competed by foreign skilled labor.

Some people oppose this because they feel just being American means you deserve a job and screw the foreigners - nationalist reason. Others oppose it because they feel that overseas employment by American corporations is automatically "sweatshops" that exploit/oppress The Worker in other countries - humanitarian/anti-capitalist reason.

On the other hand, the immigration issue is *supposedly* not about immigration but about illegal immigration. But to my way of thinking it's not - it's practically the exact same thing.

It's not about legal versus illegal. It's about how some Americans think that Mexicans are coming to the USA "steal our jobs." Incidentally, many of the humanitarian types from above will support immigration on the basis that people flee oppression when they immigrate. Yet the anti-capitalist bent will say that immigrants are being exploited illegally by American businesses and so oppose it in one way or the other.

Another thing is I don't see the outsourcing issue as "corporations sending our skilled labor industries overseas." I see it as Americans being generally spoiled by expectations of higher wages and benefits (for less work, usually) and thus being out-competed by foreign skilled labor.

Some people oppose this because they feel just being American means you deserve a job and screw the foreigners - nationalist reason. Others oppose it because they feel that overseas employment by American corporations is automatically "sweatshops" that exploit/oppress The Worker in other countries - humanitarian/anti-capitalist reason.

On the other hand, the immigration issue is *supposedly* not about immigration but about illegal immigration. But to my way of thinking it's not - it's practically the exact same thing.

It's not about legal versus illegal. It's about how some Americans think that Mexicans are coming to the USA "steal our jobs." Incidentally, many of the humanitarian types from above will support immigration on the basis that people flee oppression when they immigrate. Yet the anti-capitalist bent will say that immigrants are being exploited illegally by American businesses and so oppose it in one way or the other.

I am ardently anti-capitalist and against neither.

I am ardently anti-capitalist and against neither.

Okay. Well, I never meant that every anti-capitalist is against either one.

Okay. Well, I never meant that every anti-capitalist is against either one.

I don't think there are very many anti-capitalist leftists against immigration. There are more against outsourcing, for two reasons:

1. Organized labor is against it.
2. It's relevant to a broader critique of global capitalism that most anti-capitalist leftists, myself included, accept - the idea that the current process elevates profit over human welfare and as such is causing needless harm.

Unfortunately, (2) has led some anti-capitalist leftists, stupidly, to adopt economic nationalist stances.