NationStates Jolt Archive

I had a pleasant encounter today with a fellow youth of no special intelligence. He had heard that the current president of Iran may have been involved with the hostage crises of decades past. I reassured him that however the man was the, he is quite rational now and his only real problem with the US is our support for Israel.
He asked, “Why do we support Israel? They don’t do anything for us.”

I tell you folks, there may be hope for humanity (or at least the US) after all.

Can't we just eat cookies and watch the rioters?

I have this sudden urge to find this bit of his faith in humanity and smash it.

For the record, Israel is doing something for us - they're sinking millions into laser weaponry research, which we will undoubtedly use very extensively within a decade or so.

His logic is fully correct. Why do we support the homeless? They don't do anything for us. Let's cut all welfare spending, since the people who use it don't do anything beneficial for us. You are for that, right?

There are a few reasons for the US to support Israel:

1. Most non-Arab Israelis are of American and European Jewish origin.
2. They hold similar values of Democracy and Freedom [cough].
3. Because many are of American origin, there is a strong link.
4. Israel is the only true pro-American country in the region.
5. It's a strategic hold in a vital region for oil supplies.
6. The USA and Israel have close ties in technology and weapons.
7. Samson Option syndrome (whether spoken about or not is speculation).
8. Because where the are Jews, there is money (I am yet to meet a Jewish person who's in-debt).

I'm sure there are more...

Please, no disrespect to the peace-loving Jewish Community. I just think Israel has done a terrible job in finding it's place in the Middle East.

C'mon. America supports Israel because the Jews rule the world and were Gods chosen people. That is until Jesus came along.:p

His logic is fully correct. Why do we support the homeless? They don't do anything for us. Let's cut all welfare spending, since the people who use it don't do anything beneficial for us. You are for that, right?
The homeless don't receive welfare, otherwise they wouldn't be on the streets. The people that do receive welfare could be very beneficial to society as workers on public works.

Besides, the analogy is inaccurate. Supporting the homeless doesn't draw hatred from dozens of nations.

Why on earth would you support Isreal?
For the record, Israel is doing something for us - they're sinking millions into laser weaponry research, which we will undoubtedly use very extensively within a decade or so.
Laser weaponry is unnecessary.

I had a pleasant encounter today with a fellow youth of no special intelligence. He had heard that the current president of Iran may have been involved with the hostage crises of decades past. I reassured him that however the man was the, he is quite rational now .


ROFLMAO!!!

ROFLMAO!!!
What's so funny? You actually buy that stuff about destroying Isreal? Please, he's pandering to the crowd and you're not calling his bluff.

So your philosophy is to cut loose anyone who isn't giving you immediate benefit, or is unpopular with other people.

Congratulations. You've ascended to the social-intellectual plain of high-school students. :rolleyes:

Laser weaponry is unnecessary.

Fun, though. I'm picturing the headlines when we finally publicly assassinate (read: vaporize) someone in the middle of a crowd with a giant laser beam.

What's so funny? You actually buy that stuff about destroying Isreal? Please, he's pandering to the crowd and you're not calling his bluff.

Do you think Hitler was sane, too? He was just pandering to the crowd about Jews, but he didn't really mean that stuff! The Holocaust didn't happen, it's all Zionist lies. Being in power =/= being sane.

So your philosophy is to cut loose anyone who isn't giving you immediate benefit, or is unpopular with other people.
My philosophy is self-preservation. We don’t owe Israel anything. In fact, they owe us. Iran would be an ideal ally in the region, but they will never help us as long as we are associated with the most violent and war-prone regime in the region, the State of Israel.
Congratulations. You've ascended to the social-intellectual plain of high-school students.
There is far more at stake here than prom dates and class elections.

My philosophy is self-preservation. We don’t owe Israel anything. In fact, they owe us. Iran would be an ideal ally in the region, but they will never help us as long as we are associated with the most violent and war-prone regime in the region, the State of Israel.

Practice self-preservation long enough, and you'll soon find few people are willing to trust you.

Do you think Hitler was sane, too? He was just pandering to the crowd about Jews, but he didn't really mean that stuff! The Holocaust didn't happen, it's all Zionist lies. Being in power =/= being sane.
Hitler was very sane. He beleived what he was doing was for the benifit of mankind. He was wrong.
The difference between the Nazis and Iran is that the Jews of the holocaust era didn't have the principles of MAD to work with.

Also, I resent you bringing up the holocaust to defend Israel, a typical and intellectually bankrupt tactic.

Practice self-preservation long enough, and you'll soon find few people are willing to trust you.
Support power hungry war mongers and none will.

What's so funny? You actually buy that stuff about destroying Isreal? Please, he's pandering to the crowd and you're not calling his bluff.

You think that if he thought he could do it and get away with it that he wouldn't do it? Or even with the possibility of getting away with it? He very well could be trying to distract his people with a foreign crisis but then again I'd say he could be quite serious. He certainly has Israel's attention.

What's so funny? You actually buy that stuff about destroying Isreal? Please, he's pandering to the crowd and you're not calling his bluff.

You know the old saying - that there's always find at least one weirdo on a bus - I bet you've never noticed any weirdo's when you are on the bus.

Hitler was very sane. He beleived what he was doing was for the benifit of mankind.

So if I believe that all those who do not spend half an hour each day dong a weird ritual are detrimental to humanity and I decide to kill all of them, I would be "very sane"? I guess you are a "very sane" person if you believe that. Hitler was a nutcase.

Also, I resent you bringing up the holocaust to defend Israel, a typical and intellectually bankrupt tactic.

No, I bring up the Holocaust to disprove your typical and intellectually bankrupt assertion that Ahmadinejad is sane because he is in power or another stupid reason. The guy is a crackpot.

How bout all of the intelligence info we get from Israel. Or the news. Or the military hardware. Or the regional foothold. Or the friendly nation in a hostile area.

For the record, Israel is doing something for us - they're sinking millions into laser weaponry research, which we will undoubtedly use very extensively within a decade or so.
Booooooooooo sucks.

You think that if he thought he could do it and get away with it that he wouldn't do it?
Of course he would, but he won't be able to and he knows it.
Or even with the possibility of getting away with it?
There is no way. Even if Israel is attacked by terrorists who have never even visited Iran, the leaders of that nation know that another major terrorist attack will put them on a course of war with the US and Israel. The last thing Iran wants right now is a successful terrorist attack.
He certainly has Israel's attention.
That's because the Israeli government itches for war nearly as badly as the American neo-cons.

Fun, though. I'm picturing the headlines when we finally publicly assassinate (read: vaporize) someone in the middle of a crowd with a giant laser beam.
Booooooooooo sucks harder.

That's because the Israeli government itches for war nearly as badly as the American neo-cons.

That is why people like you are so difficult to argue with - you make abstract ideological judgements that can't be proven or disproven.

Nonetheless, the best predictor of future behavior is past behaviour, and based on that, I'm far more suspicious of "sane" Iran than "war-mongering" Isreal.

What is the point of this thread, anyway? A soapbox for you to proclaim your insubstantial normative opinions?

Why did we support Western Europe in the cold war? Many of those countries barely even liked us, but we expended a small fortune protecting Old Europe from becoming the Western part of the USSR. Why did we support Great Britton in world war II. Even before we entered the war, we did what we could to protect their lands from the Nazis. Why do we support Taiwan? The most powerful remaining "old comunism" country in the world wants it back.

We "like" Israel because they're Allies. They were ready to aid us in every conflict we've had in that regon. We've turned them down since they're a much easier target than we are. They buy our military hardware, US businesses like Intel have manufacturing and development inside their borders, they're not even two faced in their alliance. Basically, we support them because they're a friendly country to us. If your brother was hated by all his neighbors, would you stop talking to him? Israel is made up mostly of American Jews.. since Hitler did a fairly decent job of taking care of the European ones.

As for the current president of Iran having nothing against us except our support of Israel.. you're not paying attention. If Israel had never existed, we'd still be "Crusaders." various followers of Islam have been at war with us for almost as long as it's been around. At one time they'd gotten a pretty good sized chunk of Europe and really, they would like it back again. Israel is a bigger question for them than US, because they can get there by a car where as you need a plane or boat to reach the US.

We're allies because we have common interests. They come from us. Saying we should turn our backs on them just because certain people hate them.. heck, if we did that who WOULD we have left as allies. Heck, we're allies with some nations that don't particularlly like us, and we don't particularlly like them. At the very least, Israel is better than that.

There is no way. Even if Israel is attacked by terrorists who have never even visited Iran, the leaders of that nation know that another major terrorist attack will put them on a course of war with the US and Israel. The last thing Iran wants right now is a successful terrorist attack.

I think it may very well be true that he doesn't have all his mental facilities intact so who knows what he may try to do.

That's because the Israeli government itches for war nearly as badly as the American neo-cons.

I'd say that Israel has enough to do without finding an excuse to go after Iran. I'd think there is a greater chance of Israel invading Syria given their habit of harboring terrorists that will attack the Israelis.

Why did we support Western Europe in the cold war? Many of those countries barely even liked us, but we expended a small fortune protecting Old Europe from becoming the Western part of the USSR. Why did we support Great Britton in world war II. Even before we entered the war, we did what we could to protect their lands from the Nazis. Why do we support Taiwan? The most powerful remaining "old comunism" country in the world wants it back.

I hope these questions are just rhetorical.

I hope these questions are just rhetorical.

..obviously.

..obviously.

You never can tell on NS, had to make sure. :)

Why did we support Western Europe in the cold war? Many of those countries barely even liked us, but we expended a small fortune protecting Old Europe from becoming the Western part of the USSR. Why did we support Great Britton in world war II. Even before we entered the war, we did what we could to protect their lands from the Nazis. Why do we support Taiwan? The most powerful remaining "old comunism" country in the world wants it back.
Because our leaders were/are imperialists who liked thinking of those nations as within their sphere of influence.
We "like" Israel because they're Allies. They were ready to aid us in every conflict we've had in that regon.
Conflicts that should never have been fought.
We've turned them down since they're a much easier target than we are.
How convenient for them.
They buy our military hardware,
So they can kill Arabs.
US businesses like Intel have manufacturing and development inside their borders,
Those companies could exist inside an Arab controlled Isreal.
If your brother was hated by all his neighbors, would you stop talking to him?
If I had something to gain or feared losing something, then sure.
Israel is made up mostly of American Jews.. since Hitler did a fairly decent job of taking care of the European ones.
Why does that matter? They've repatrioted.
As for the current president of Iran having nothing against us except our support of Israel.. you're not paying attention. If Israel had never existed, we'd still be "Crusaders." various followers of Islam have been at war with us for almost as long as it's been around. At one time they'd gotten a pretty good sized chunk of Europe and really, they would like it back again. Israel is a bigger question for them than US, because they can get there by a car where as you need a plane or boat to reach the US.
Muslims are reasonable people like you and me. They aren’t some separate blood-thirsty subspecies.
We're allies because we have common interests.
No, we don't.

I see that anti-semitism is alive and well on NS.

It seems to me that according to most of the people responding to this thread will only be happy if the holocaust begins again. Isreal has no right to exist an there for anyone who suports it deserves to be slaughtered as well.

Don't give me that crap about how the land was stolen from from the palestinians. Jordan took a far larger chunk of land, but no one is demanding that they give it back to make a palestinian state.

Isreal is surrounded by fanatics and nations that want to see the country and everyone in there wiped from the face of the earth. Their options are to be ready to defend themselves at a moments notice, or lay down and die.

I see that anti-semitism is alive and well on NS.
Not supporting the state of Israel is not the same as hating Jews. I really don’t mind Hebrews, and they actually have contributed quite a bit to the US economy.
Isreal has no right to exist an there for anyone who suports it deserves to be slaughtered as well.

Technically, no nation has a “right” to exist.
Don't give me that crap about how the land was stolen from from the palestinians. Jordan took a far larger chunk of land, but no one is demanding that they give it back to make a palestinian state.
It isn’t about the land being stolen at all. I could care less. My country stole land in the past and so has almost every other nation on Earth. The point is that there is no reason to maintain the liability that is an alliance with Israel.
Their options are to be ready to defend themselves at a moments notice, or lay down and die.
Good. They can do that. Just don't drag my people and our livelihoods into it.