NationStates Jolt Archive

A man in St. Louis has discovered an ingenious way to reduce the price of gasoline. The process involves the use of a key and a book containing codes for programming gas station pumps, and benefits not only the person using the process, but other drivers who pull up to the pump as well.

Despite the fact that this guy was stealing, I don't really feel like he did anything all that wrong. Probably because I dislike oil companies. I hope he gets away with a slap on the wrist.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0509gas-theft09-ON.html

He is not a CEO so he will see prison.

But it's funny. ;)

A more ingenuous way would be to allow oil companies to build refineries, and extract more oil.

Or is the idea of allowing a supplier to increase supply to meet demand too simple?

A more ingenuous way would be to allow oil companies to build refineries, and extract more oil.

Or is the idea of allowing a supplier to increase supply to meet demand too simple?
Well, aside from the fact that OPEC has a stranglehold on the supply and keeps it artificially low to maintain prices, the obvious environmental consequences and the fact that much of the high prices are down to other factors, such as taxes, that is the perfect solution. I wonder why no one else thought of it. :rolleyes:

Despite the fact that this guy was stealing, I don't really feel like he did anything all that wrong. Probably because I dislike oil companies. Of course chances are he's not stealing from the oil companies, but from the pump owners..

A more ingenuous way would be to allow oil companies to build refineries, and extract more oil.

Or is the idea of allowing a supplier to increase supply to meet demand too simple?
They're running out of oil to extract. Too bad the dinosaurs didn't think about the future generations who would use their decomposed remains for fuel and have lots more babies before the meteor hit so they'd leave us even more oil, huh?

Make congress, and other high political officials pay for everything they are usually given.

A more ingenuous way would be to allow oil companies to build refineries, and extract more oil.

Or is the idea of allowing a supplier to increase supply to meet demand too simple?You're missing the idea of peak oil. Whether its real or not, it will cause prices to remain high.

A man in St. Louis has discovered an ingenious way to reduce the price of gasoline. The process involves the use of a key and a book containing codes for programming gas station pumps, and benefits not only the person using the process, but other drivers who pull up to the pump as well.

Despite the fact that this guy was stealing, I don't really feel like he did anything all that wrong. Probably because I dislike oil companies. I hope he gets away with a slap on the wrist.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0509gas-theft09-ON.html


unfortunately, this kind of stuff hurts local gas-station owners (who tend to be nice, friendly people) a lot more than it hurts big oil companies.

Because of that buy the Oil Companies will only make 3 billion in profit. How will they sleep at night???????

You know what would hurt big oil companies? Avoid using their products or minimize the usage.

Take the bus/subway, ride your bike, walk whenever possible, carpool et c. it'll save you money too.

Originally Posted by Drunk commies deleted
Despite the fact that this guy was stealing, I don't really feel like he did anything all that wrong. Probably because I dislike oil companies.

Of course chances are he's not stealing from the oil companies, but from the pump owners..

Correct. The stations are paying for it, not the oil companies.

If you want to spend less on gas, then the simplest way to do it is (and this is shocking), don't be in such a freaking hurry all the time. Most of your gas consumption is when you first get rolling. When you depress the accelorator more than an inch or two, you're wasting your own gas. Observe posted speed limits. When you see a light turn red, take your foot off the gas and coast up to the light and stop slowly (it'll extend the life of your brake pads too).

Image that, driving legaly and conservatively (some might even dare say politely) will benefit your wallet (or purse as the case may be) over the long run. I know it's a hard concept, following the law and getting rewarded for it, but the other option is to just keep paying more.

Correct. The stations are paying for it, not the oil companies.

If you want to spend less on gas, then the simplest way to do it is (and this is shocking), don't be in such a freaking hurry all the time. Most of your gas consumption is when you first get rolling. When you depress the accelorator more than an inch or two, you're wasting your own gas. Observe posted speed limits. When you see a light turn red, take your foot off the gas and coast up to the light and stop slowly (it'll extend the life of your brake pads too).

Image that, driving legaly and conservatively (some might even dare say politely) will benefit your wallet (or purse as the case may be) over the long run. I know it's a hard concept, following the law and getting rewarded for it, but the other option is to just keep paying more.

(just don't drive like Grandpa in the left lane... that's the fast lane and you'll be holding people up)

How about we encourage alternative energy? This will make big oil scared and start lowering prices.

If you americans drove smaller cars than the oil would last longer and you would save money by the lower fuel consumption. But give me a break petrol is over £1 a Litre in the United Kingdom thats $10 a gallon so when you have to start paying those sort of fuel prices then you can complain.

If you americans drove smaller cars than the oil would last longer and you would save money by the lower fuel consumption. But give me a break petrol is over £1 a Litre in the United Kingdom thats $10 a gallon so when you have to start paying those sort of fuel prices then you can complain.
We Americans have the right to complain whenever we want about whatever we want. It's guaranteed by the first amendment to our constitution.

Well, aside from the fact that OPEC has a stranglehold on the supply and keeps it artificially low to maintain prices,

Not just OPEC, over 80% of the world's oil is in the hands of governments.

Oil should, like all industries, have government removed from it.

the obvious environmental consequences

They aren't obvious, they aren't even properly explored. All we hear is the environmentalists alarmism, which is all we ever hear from them.

They're running out of oil to extract.

Vast reserves remained unused because governments will not allow them to be used. Not because it has envrionmental consequences, but because it has political consequences, the main one being that a high price benefits governments in many ways, it gives the government scapegoats, and it serves as a cash cow for the treasury. Exploration is virtually at a stop because even if oil is found, governments will steal it, and will not allow it to be extracted.

the recent increase in oil prices is due to the Irani enriched-uranium discovery and the general running out of oil.

Most of the worlds oil now comes from Iran. (texas is running dry, so is the oil-deposit off the coast of the UK).

So now... Iran is trying to make nuclear power plants (officially) and the Western countries dont like the idea of a middle-eastern country with uranium.
So if any action happens against Iran... the flow of oil stops.

Less oil means economys crash.
- Because its more scarce, the price will increase hugely...
- Companies wont be able to afford to fuel trucks to deliver goods. Shop prices increase.
- Money from selling on oil stops. So people lose jobs (as well as the country losing income)
- Less oil means less plastic products being made, meaning prices of plastics will increase (also increasing the price of food via packaging)
- Less oil means people cant afford to use cars. Less people will get to work.
- Less oil means reductions in power generated. (in the 70's in the UK there was an oil shortage..the entire country had to resort to a 3-day working-week to be able to power companies)
- The above two mean more unemployment

So all of the above... probably plus more.. means a lot of things will change.
So oil companies are seeing all of the above happening again, and are cashing in whilst they still can.

Here's a thought this is the 21st century where's my rocket pack?

They're running out of oil to extract. Too bad the dinosaurs didn't think about the future generations who would use their decomposed remains for fuel and have lots more babies before the meteor hit so they'd leave us even more oil, huh?

If we ever invent time travel, I'll bet you a gazillion dollars that someone will suggest going back in time and dumping a bunch of organic garbage back there so it'll become more oil. :)

If we ever invent time travel, I'll bet you a gazillion dollars that someone will suggest going back in time and dumping a bunch of organic garbage back there so it'll become more oil. :)

Everybody's toilet should have a time portal installed as a standard option.

Everybody's toilet should have a time portal installed as a standard option.

I hope you don't mean a time portal in the bowl... Some people would have some really disgusting portals...

I hope you don't mean a time portal in the bowl... Some people would have some really disgusting portals...

The benefits will be worth it in the fut..er, now, trust me!

A great way to cut gas prices?

Cars powered by vegetable oil!

The benefits will be worth it in the fut..er, now, trust me!

Hmm... Shall I defile you with a plunger, or shove you in a fat guy's toilet?

I thought that Itwas vegetable matter not excrement from which we got oil so therfore should'nt we send out grass cuttings back in time?

We don't need to go back in time. Grass clippings, sewerage, kitchen scraps, old plastic, or any other organic waste can be turned into fuel.

http://www.changingworldtech.com/

He is stealing from the franchise owner, not the oil company. :rolleyes:

The fuel you pump into your car has already been sold several times, and everyone in the chain, right up to the filling station owner, has already got the cash in the bank. What he is doing is stealing from a small business.

If you want to reduce price, curb the goddamn demand. Its simple economics people! If every other jackass in the united states wasn't driving around in a stupid SUV that gets 7-10 MPG we might just have a little extra gas for the rest of us.

You want to reduce prices? Blow up every SUV you see and go buy a bike.

You want to reduce prices? Blow up every SUV you see and go buy a bike.
But that would kill the overcapacity in the US car market. Having the US auto majors collapse and get plundered by Asia, is the best thing that could happen for fuel efficiency and emissions standards.

only about $.08 of every dollar spent on gas goes to the gas company while (depending on your state) 40%-60% of that dollar is tax. You want lower gas prices...Drill anwar drill off the coast of cali mine the oilshale in Utah. There is more oil in Utah than in Saudi Arabia... but thanks to treehuggers that's where it will stay.


A man in St. Louis has discovered an ingenious way to reduce the price of gasoline. The process involves the use of a key and a book containing codes for programming gas station pumps, and benefits not only the person using the process, but other drivers who pull up to the pump as well.

Despite the fact that this guy was stealing, I don't really feel like he did anything all that wrong. Probably because I dislike oil companies. I hope he gets away with a slap on the wrist.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0509gas-theft09-ON.html

Yeah but if everyone rode a bicycle, we'd have les obesiety, cleaner air, and lower fuel prices!

Which means I'd be able to buy cheaper gas and run you all off the road.

There is more oil in Utah than in Saudi Arabia... but thanks to treehuggers that's where it will stay.
More like, thanks to the oil density, reservoir pressure, permeability of the reservoir rock, etc, etc.

You might like to read a book on the subject or something.

You missed my point. Anwar has EASILY reached oil, ditto Socal...Utah still has extractable oil. The point is there is readily available oil that is off limits for what amounts to cosmetic reasons.

More like, thanks to the oil density, reservoir pressure, permeability of the reservoir rock, etc, etc.

You might like to read a book on the subject or something.

More like, thanks to the oil density, reservoir pressure, permeability of the reservoir rock, etc, etc.

You might like to read a book on the subject or something.

Agreed... I took a geology course on the US landforms and all. Well anyways the rocks out in the west have very low permeability, and the technology to remove to oil is so expensive, it would only raise gas prices. Ironic kinda.

I have never uderstood why Americans are so insisting on lower gas prices. Then again I drive a Toyota Prius ... IN THE HOV LANE! :D

It is likewise totally confusing when I hear so called "experts" try to explain the price of gas on any given week. Somehow I think that the regulations that require every single gas station to switch blends right before the start of the spring motoring season causing major supply/demand problems coupled with the fact that our nation's refining capacity has been critically short for ages now has an order of magnitude difference than either anything in the Middle East or China's rapidly growing economy.

Gas in the US is still gosh awful cheap. It might seem higher than it was in the 70's when we had the real crisis, but not after inflation is taken into account. Noone is worried about people stealing the gas from their cars like it was in the 70's. People still drive those gas guzzling minivans and SUVs just as much as they did a year ago.

But if you really want to save ... here is a trick I heard on NPR. Remember for all the digital dodas your gas station's gas pump is still mechanical. If you pump your gas at less than the full throtle speed, you have a better chance of it recording the correct amount of gas actually pumped. If you pump your gas at full throtle it might read a few percentage points above what it actually pumped. 1% difference on 10 gallons at $3 per gallon is 30 cents and they can add up over time you know. So relax and take it easy at the pump. Buy a small car that gets or hybrid. Learn to walk perhaps? Public transport?

You missed my point. Anwar has EASILY reached oil, ditto Socal...Utah still has extractable oil. The point is there is readily available oil that is off limits for what amounts to cosmetic reasons.

"Cosmetic reasons" are valid when the supply in question won't even put a dent in our consumption.

You know what would hurt big oil companies? Avoid using their products or minimize the usage.

Take the bus/subway, ride your bike, walk whenever possible, carpool et c. it'll save you money too.
:eek: But... but...
How about we encourage alternative energy? This will make big oil scared and start lowering prices.
But then the terrorists would win! :eek:

I live in an oil exporting country, so I like the high oil prices. A lot.

These big oil companies have invested enormous sums into exploration and refining efficiency - that's why they're making huge profits. Because they put themselves in a position to benefit from high oil prices.

a trivial 10 billion barrels it could provide 40% of US oil no need to drill there. :rolleyes:

"Cosmetic reasons" are valid when the supply in question won't even put a dent in our consumption.

:eek: But... but...

But then the terrorists would win! :eek:
WUHAHAHA! Yes we(that being everyone who's not with you) drove oil prices up, we want to end the vital freedom: to pollute as much as possible. Then you will have started on the slippery slope and democracy will crumble wuhahahahahahahahahahaahahahah.

a trivial 10 billion barrells :rolleyes:

The US consumes 7+ billion barrels per year. ANWR would provide enough oil for a whole 1.43 years at current consumption rates, and that would require a virtually impossible 20 million bpd production rate. If ANWR is open, it should all be put in to the SPR rather than wasted so people can drive their cars for less.

Oil shale might help, but that's not going to reduce gas prices. Rather, it should be used for more useful and efficient purposes like shipping and industry, both of which consume less than 40% of our oil and are better suited to the low-grade crude of the oil shale (container ships run on stuff little better than tar, and that's a lot easier and cheaper to produce than gasoline).

Hell, we could save a lot of oil if we just converted our car fleet over to a biodiesel-clean diesel mixture; gasoline is a really inferior fuel compared to either of those and has a negative EROEI unlike biodiesel...it's even less energy efficient than ethanol in absolute terms and only slightly better when adjusted for reductions in mileage. Gasoline really is a terrible fuel compared to its alternatives...

Gasoline really is a terrible fuel compared to its alternatives...

We'll switch from gasoline when the market forces push us that direction. No sooner.

I'd love to run my pickup on E85, or get a diesel pickup and run bio-diesel, but the problem is, my state doesn't sell E85 and I live in an apartment, so I don't have the room necessary for the bio-diesel equipment. :(

a trivial 10 billion barrels it could provide 40% of US oil no need to drill there. :rolleyes:
You really need to read a book on this. :rolleyes:

We'll switch from gasoline when the market forces push us that direction. No sooner.

Market forces are turning in that direction very quickly; it will take more time but we're already seeing market-driven change take place and very quickly. Every year of high oil prices seems like half a decade technologically and economically, and a lot of that is fully market driven.

Government support is beneficial, and will likely be necessary to allow the market to overcome the artificial barriers to the introduction of artificial fuels (which the government had a hand in creating). Fossil fuel power plants would be uncompetitive compared solar/wind/nuclear/geothermal/biomass etc. if they wern't so heavily subsidized. Unfortunately, the government may need to subsidize alternative energy to counteract years of subsidies on fossil fuels.

You know what would hurt big oil companies? Avoid using their products or minimize the usage.

Take the bus/subway, ride your bike, walk whenever possible, carpool et c. it'll save you money too.
I’m not comfortable with one fifth of US industry collapsing, thank you very much.

A man in St. Louis has discovered an ingenious way to reduce the price of gasoline. The process involves the use of a key and a book containing codes for programming gas station pumps, and benefits not only the person using the process, but other drivers who pull up to the pump as well.

Despite the fact that this guy was stealing, I don't really feel like he did anything all that wrong. Probably because I dislike oil companies. I hope he gets away with a slap on the wrist.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0509gas-theft09-ON.html


Fool, the government makes far more money (about 400% more) than the oil companies do per gallon. Maybe you think that taxes are too high? Then we could agree on something. Gas consumptio in the USA could be cut 10 to 20% in ONE MONTH without a change in american buying habits (which would decrease imported oil by (20-40%)- but - since it would require responsible governmet it is unlikely yo occur. They will continue to try to pass the buck to automakers or whoever else they can saddle with the headache.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/04/22_cunninghamg_traffic/

I’m not comfortable with one fifth of US industry collapsing, thank you very much.

I'm not either; nevertheless, oil and gas companies have to compete with their rivals like any other industry and it would be unfair to continue our dependence on them if there are better alternatives available. A changing market both puts pressure on prices as well as stimulates growth and competition. If anything, those actions would increase the size of US industry by 20% rather than reduce it by that amount.

It's also highly unlikely that oil companies would go bankrupt; Exxon and the others will simply diversify to take advantage of market trends, and once hydrogen/biofuels take off they are still in a great place because one of the cheapest sources of hydrogen is natural gas (and petroleum to a lesser extent), and biofuels are easy to diversify into.

Technological change drives growth and employment, and the oil industry is no different. After all, they cost the coal industry thousands of jobs and companies but in the longer run greatly accelerated growth because they offered a better product. Plus, money saved by consumers due to competition ultimately increases demand for all products and drives overall growth.

I'm all for ethenol and nitromethane, BUT why not open other sources in the interem?

The US consumes 7+ billion barrels per year. ANWR would provide enough oil for a whole 1.43 years at current consumption rates, and that would require a virtually impossible 20 million bpd production rate. If ANWR is open, it should all be put in to the SPR rather than wasted so people can drive their cars for less.

Oil shale might help, but that's not going to reduce gas prices. Rather, it should be used for more useful and efficient purposes like shipping and industry, both of which consume less than 40% of our oil and are better suited to the low-grade crude of the oil shale (container ships run on stuff little better than tar, and that's a lot easier and cheaper to produce than gasoline).

Hell, we could save a lot of oil if we just converted our car fleet over to a biodiesel-clean diesel mixture; gasoline is a really inferior fuel compared to either of those and has a negative EROEI unlike biodiesel...it's even less energy efficient than ethanol in absolute terms and only slightly better when adjusted for reductions in mileage. Gasoline really is a terrible fuel compared to its alternatives...

Gasoline really is a terrible fuel compared to its alternatives...

The engine comes into play there too. How much power is lost with heat?

I'm all for ethenol and nitromethane, BUT why not open other sources in the interem?

Alberta has 1 trillion barrels of tarsands pushing our economy along. Please send construction workers. We ran out like 4 years ago.

1) Ban SUVs (thereby decreasing demand, assuming not all former SUV derivers buy 4WD trucks/vans)

2) Drill in Alaska (thereby increasing supply)

3) Take over the middle east and/or venezuela and appropriate all the oil.

hehe

How about we encourage alternative energy? This will make big oil scared and start lowering prices.
Myth.

We'll switch from gasoline when the market forces push us that direction. No sooner.Or when Congress bans gasoline.

Myth.
Elaborate.

Elaborate.
Oil prices have to stay high for ethanol or biodiesel to be economic. If the price of oil falls a lot, which probably won't happen, then ethanol and biodeisel will not be able to compete because, as altruistic as people want to believe they are, they will not pay significantly more at the pump to use and alternative to gasoline or deisel. If the price of oil stays high and ethanol and biodeisel can be produced economically then the energy companies will start to produce it. There seems to be this feeling that there's an oil company conspiracy to keep "alternative" energy out of the market place. That's bullshit. Enery companies exist for one reason: to make money. They are not a charity. If they can make money from ethanol, they'll produce ethanol. They will not dump huge money into producing it now, however, because they don't want to risk all the capital just to have the price of oil drop by $30/barrel and make al that cash outlay a waste of money.


The largest producer of solar power in the world is Shell Oil. Chevron is building wind farms now and BP is getting into the wind business, too. The companies will take advantage of whatever technology they can make money from.

It's not going to "save us," however.

Oil prices have to stay high for ethanol or biodiesel to be economic. If the price of oil falls a lot, which probably won't happen, then ethanol and biodeisel will not be able to compete because, as altruistic as people want to believe they are, they will not pay significantly more at the pump to use and alternative to gasoline or deisel. If the price of oil stays high and ethanol and biodeisel can be produced economically then the energy companies will start to produce it. There seems to be this feeling that there's an oil company conspiracy to keep "alternative" energy out of the market place. That's bullshit. Enery companies exist for one reason: to make money. They are not a charity. If they can make money from ethanol, they'll produce ethanol. They will not dump huge money into producing it now, however, because they don't want to risk all the capital just to have the price of oil drop by $30/barrel and make al that cash outlay a waste of money.


The largest producer of solar power in the world is Shell Oil. Chevron is building wind farms now and BP is getting into the wind business, too. The companies will take advantage of whatever technology they can make money from.

It's not going to "save us," however.
I told you so, I told you so, I told you so.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12738523/

NEW YORK - Chevron Corp. Thursday said it has taken a stake in a Texas company building a large-scale biodiesel plant.

The biodiesel production and distribution facility in Galveston, Texas, is scheduled for completion by the end of the year and would have the potential to produce 100 million gallons of biodiesel per year.
So much for the conspiracy theories about Big Oil keeping alternative energy down.

So much for the conspiracy theories about Big Oil keeping alternative energy down.

Wow. One plant that "could" produce 100 millions a year.

Proof is in the end result.

I'm not either; nevertheless, oil and gas companies have to compete with their rivals like any other industry and it would be unfair to continue our dependence on them if there are better alternatives available.
But they aren't any better alternatives available. Oil has been the catalyst for nearly every single one of the last century's advances. Nothing like it has ever existed, and I'm afraid that nothing ever will.