NationStates Jolt Archive

Think about that. God says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." He doesn't claim that those other gods don't exist, only that those he's addressing (Jews) aren't allowed to worship them.

It seems pretty clear. Inferring from that the non-existence of other gods is lousy reasoning.

yeah, and put away those spoons too...

It seems to me pretty obvious that there are other Gods in the Cosmos or where ever it is that Gods live...

Of course, that is a translation of a translation. The original ten commandments might be a recipe for biscuits.

Or do you not remember "All your base are belong to us." And that in the digital age.

Yeah, and as far as my (albeit somewhat limited) understanding goes, the early Jews did not deny the existance of other Gods (eg. the Babylonian ones) in addition to their own.

It also doesn't say that you can't have gods after him. He just wants to be first in line. YHWH don't like sloppy seconds.

It also doesn't say that you can't have gods after him. He just wants to be first in line.

God is an egotistical little bugger isnt he?

God is an egotistical little bugger isnt he?
He doesn't like sloppy seconds. He's a man of principle.

If you put the christian God before the pink elephant spirit boy will you regret it in the afterlife

He doesn't like sloppy seconds. He's a man of principle.
This sounds like the perfect moment for a "Feel his salvation all over my face" call, but I felt like completely ruining the set-up for you instead. :D

If you put the christian God before the pink elephant spirit boy will you regret it in the afterlife

Hey! Don't forget Chuck Norris

wow.. I can't believe I found the home of pure ignorance... right here, in these forums :o

wow.. I can't believe I found the home of pure ignorance... right here, in these forums :o

Explain.

wow.. I can't believe I found the home of pure ignorance... right here, in these forums :o

You are obviously new here.

Hey! Don't forget Chuck Norris


Chuck Norris is god no need to say his name twice.

wow.. I can't believe I found the home of pure ignorance... right here, in these forums :o
Sorry, I'm afraid we can't accomodate your ignorance. You'll have to find a home for it elsewhere.

wow.. I can't believe I found the home of pure ignorance... right here, in these forums :o
I can't believe it's not butter!

Sorry Skinny, not sure I need to explain it their posts for them. If they choose to further define their statements, so be it.

Sorry Skinny, not sure I need to explain it their posts for them. If they choose to further define their statements, so be it.
With grammar like that I'd say you got some 'splainin to do, Lucy.

He doesn't like sloppy seconds. He's a man of principle.

Hes the kinda guy who leaves a mess on your dress and gives you a fifty and a blessing in return.

:confused: :confused: wow.. I can't believe I found the home of pure ignorance... right here, in these forums :o
First you make your staement....

Sorry Skinny, not sure I need to explain it their posts for them. If they choose to further define their statements, so be it.
Then you tell us you don't have to explain it?! There may be some ignorance showing here, but it certainly isn't any of the other posters, just you.

Think about that. God says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." He doesn't claim that those other gods don't exist, only that those he's addressing (Jews) aren't allowed to worship them.

It seems pretty clear. Inferring from that the non-existence of other gods is lousy reasoning.

Something I always thought was strange... and I believe the Jews werent monotheists (well, I think they believed other god existed. May not have worshiped them though) until some people invaded them... erm... the abyssinians (i think), and the invaders besieged a town full of a certain monotheist sect of Jews and then a plague struck their army and they decided to leave. This was taken a symbol that those Jews got it right... and so eventually they all became monotheists.#

Though that is off a vague recollection of a book I read a long time ago, and I cant remember how reliable a source it was.

Oh, and didnt Moses claim his god was more powerful than the Egyptians, rather than theirs did not exist?

My invisible omnipotent man in the sky can beat up your invisible omnipotent man in the sky!

My invisible omnipotent man in the sky can beat up your invisible omnipotent man in the sky!
My invisible omnipotent man is the sky, sucka! =p

reloloffleotteful.

God seems to covet thy neighbours.....God......:confused:

Think about that. God says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." He doesn't claim that those other gods don't exist, only that those he's addressing (Jews) aren't allowed to worship them.

It seems pretty clear. Inferring from that the non-existence of other gods is lousy reasoning.

Notice the Golden Calf. God with a caiptal G is the English understanding of God's name, but god is also a descriptive noun, like human. Meaning you can make something else a god in your life, like the Isralites did with the calf and many people now do with money

Think about that. God says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." He doesn't claim that those other gods don't exist, only that those he's addressing (Jews) aren't allowed to worship them.

It seems pretty clear. Inferring from that the non-existence of other gods is lousy reasoning.

Yeah, I think the idea of disbelieving other religions came later. Remember, when they were first made, stories like the Odyssey were taken as fact.

Think about that. God says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." He doesn't claim that those other gods don't exist, only that those he's addressing (Jews) aren't allowed to worship them.

It seems pretty clear. Inferring from that the non-existence of other gods is lousy reasoning.

Of course. Early Jewish religion was purely willing to accept that other tribes had their gods, just that because when Jews fight, Jews win, the Jewish god must therefore be the stronger and ought to be worshipped. It wasn't until Jewish contact with Zoroastrianism under the Persian Cyrus that they started to take on the idea that their god was The One and Only God.

This of course is not to say that just because the position on God has evolved over time, that the evolution proves God to be a myth. It's logically possible for them to come to the proper conclusion even if they didn't start out there.

Why do you need more than one god?

Of course. Early Jewish religion was purely willing to accept that other tribes had their gods, just that because when Jews fight, Jews win, the Jewish god must therefore be the stronger and ought to be worshipped. It wasn't until Jewish contact with Zoroastrianism under the Persian Cyrus that they started to take on the idea that their god was The One and Only God.

This of course is not to say that just because the position on God has evolved over time, that the evolution proves God to be a myth. It's logically possible for them to come to the proper conclusion even if they didn't start out there.

But it's equally possible that they started at the proper conclusion and evolved away from it.

Why do you need more than one god?
It's neat, if not necessarily useful, in the expression of some kinds of ideas.

Yes, the golden calf is the prime example. That, and when the Jews entered Caanan, they didn't successfully kill off the Caanities, and started worshiping Baal, since Baal was a "god of farmers." So yea, they thought there was one God to a degree, but they didn't fully understand the concept.

Why do you need more than one god?

To quote Nanny Ogg:
"One of anything's no bloody use."

God is an egotistical little bugger isnt he?

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/g_d.jpg

I CERTAINLY TRY.

What about gods after Him?

What about gods after Him?

"God is dead so he can't very well object now can he?:D

Think about that. God says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." He doesn't claim that those other gods don't exist, only that those he's addressing (Jews) aren't allowed to worship them.

It seems pretty clear. Inferring from that the non-existence of other gods is lousy reasoning.

It also means that christians are supposed to worship Jesus before God...but they do anyway.

In theory, the ancient Jews were monotheists. However, they did not always enforce this rule. Many Jewish sages credit the destruction of the First Temple to the Jews allowing idolatry to exist in their midst.

After the Babylonian exile the Jews became somewhat more rigid in enforcing anti-idolatry laws.

Oh, and what "translation of a translation" are you referring to?

Oh, right, Hebrew>Greek>English.

I use Hebrew>English. It's basically the same, but the Second Commandment reads:
"You shall not recognize the gods of others in My presence" - and since G-d is forever, so is this commandment.

In theory, the ancient Jews were monotheists. However, they did not always enforce this rule. Many Jewish sages credit the destruction of the First Temple to the Jews allowing idolatry to exist in their midst.

After the Babylonian exile the Jews became somewhat more rigid in enforcing anti-idolatry laws.

Oh, and what "translation of a translation" are you referring to?

Oh, right, Hebrew>Greek>English.

I use Hebrew>English. It's basically the same, but the Second Commandment reads:
"You shall not recognize the gods of others in My presence" - and since G-d is forever, so is this commandment.
hmmmm

you shall not recognize the gods of others in my presence.

hmmmm

so its OK to "recognize" them when he's not looking?

yeah, and put away those spoons too...
What spoon? :wink:

Except He is ALWAYS looking. So tough luck.

Read my recent post in the "God is greedy" thread. Techincally, Jesus himself is a god. Techincally, Satan, Lucifer, Dante, or whatever you want to call them, are dieties as well. So techincally, Christianity is a polytheist religion. But the followers of it worship two gods. Wait... I'm getting confused... God says to worship him and him only, yet Christians worship Jesus as well, yet neither God nor Jesus told them to worship Jesus. Jesus simply said that if they don't believe he's the son of God, that's a bad thing. They never told the people to worship Jesus. Ugh... Confusion...

In most versions of Christian theology, Jesus is for all intents and purposes an aspect of God.

uh, most Christians/Catholics believe that Jesus was God incarnate, making him God (or a manifestation of God, I think a priest/theologian could answer this better than I could).

Why do you need more than one god?
As possibly the only practicing polytheist in the thread, allow me:

It's convenient for focusing on different concepts or needs.

It might be many different beings each in charge of one or a few things; or

It might be one god who keeps ducking behind the counter and coming back up wearing a different hat for each customer; but either way

The different gods are typically symbolic exemplars of the qualities of whatever it is they are in charge of. Farmers are primarily concerned with the fertility of fields and animals, so their gods are all about fertility, fecundity, moistness, growth, etc. Sailors are primarily concerned with having good, safe voyages, so their gods are all about the powers of the sea, the winds, stars/navigation, and so on. Urban dwellers may be primarily concerned with doing well on the job or in school, being safe from criminals, dealing with officials, etc., so their gods are about the streets they live in, protection from intruders, intellectual scholarship, financial success, even traffic safety, and so on. This is the most basic level. Even the more cosmically oriented gods are exemplars of certain aspects of existence that a worshipper wants to focus on.

Notice the Golden Calf. God with a caiptal G is the English understanding of God's name, but god is also a descriptive noun, like human. Meaning you can make something else a god in your life, like the Isralites did with the calf and many people now do with money
Something being important in your life != it taking a place of worship

To quote Nanny Ogg:
"One of anything's no bloody use."

"Oh my god, he only has one ass! He is of no use to me, I'll have to burn the room."
...

"Perhaps we should just leave nature alone to its simple, one-assed schematics."

-South Park
Episode 105

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/g_d.jpg

I CERTAINLY TRY.
Do you employ the same accent? :p

Read my recent post in the "God is greedy" thread. Techincally, Jesus himself is a god. Techincally, Satan, Lucifer, Dante, or whatever you want to call them, are dieties as well. So techincally, Christianity is a polytheist religion. But the followers of it worship two gods. Wait... I'm getting confused... God says to worship him and him only, yet Christians worship Jesus as well, yet neither God nor Jesus told them to worship Jesus. Jesus simply said that if they don't believe he's the son of God, that's a bad thing. They never told the people to worship Jesus. Ugh... Confusion...

It's quite simple really. For this case, let's say god is a mob boss. Jesus is his lieutenant. And the rest of the angels are his goons. Working out where the protection money goes after that is childs play :p

Something being important in your life != it taking a place of worship

To be fair, the Bible doesn't really imply that they're the same thing.

It also means that christians are supposed to worship Jesus before God...but they do anyway.
Hey, Vanna brought you two consonants and an apostrophe:
t
n
'

Mix them to your liking!

This sounds like the perfect moment for a "Feel his salvation all over my face" call, but I felt like completely ruining the set-up for you instead. :D
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/132.gif

wow.. I can't believe I found the home of pure ignorance... right here, in these forums :o
What's so pure about it? A lot of folks here have worked hard to gain their ignorant status. :mad:

organised religion is rubbish the bible is a mishmash of drug fuelled ravings of lone desert wanderers who went mad because of not enough food and then getting really hungry and eating whatever strange fungi they could find. hey that reminds me its almost mushy season. i might have to wander mt vic after starving myself for a week

I've heard a lot of intelligent arguments made for the inherent falseness of religious faith, but that was sadly not one of them.

why not, if you starve yourself according to the bible you will be closer to god. in this state of mind you are more likely to hallucinate, or have a 'vision'
the divine revelation of st john could be straight out of fear and loathing in las vegas and vice versa.

why not, if you starve yourself according to the bible you will be closer to god. in this state of mind you are more likely to hallucinate, or have a 'vision'
the divine revelation of st john could be straight out of fear and loathing in las vegas and vice versa.Good point - he had been kicked out of mainstream society, and he was having fever visions (if he ever existed in the first place)

I'm not arguing that the Bible does not indicate that fasting may increase one's inclination towards divine experience. I'm simply pointing out that the biblical authors were clearly not all "drug-fuelled ravings of lone desert wanderers". Prophets and visionaries do not make up a majority of the biblical authors; this is a historical fact, not a religious belief.

the entire new testament was written by the followers of jesus, who was like the craziest of all cause he went and fasted for 90 days or whatever and then had a conversation with lucifer

40, but who's counting?

40, but who's counting?
I bet every one of the throng was mulling it over in their heads after the first 6 days. *nods solemnly*

I don't get it...

'mulling' over it, definately

'mulling' over it, definately
Excellent! *bows*

I don't get it...
Play on words ... and an obscure ref with it ... see above.

Ah.

Someone help me out here:

I have a memory, as a kid, of being in church, and the preacher quoted something from the bible, and I adlib(horribly), "You are my people over all others" or "only you are my people" and it was about God speaking about the Jews. I hope someone can dig up some actual quotes..

Anyway, that struck me as being very profound, so much so that I can remember it(basically) thirty years later.

You see, I'm not Jewish. The Literal impression in my mind was that god wasnt interested in "my people", and that it was never his intention that we should worship him. That wasnt what the minister meant, but I couldnt help wonder if he realized the meaning of what he was reading.

That is my first memory of the dichotomy between belief and words.

just thought it needed to be said.... its what this debate needed... more cowbell

That's in reference to the Hebrew belief that the Hebrew people had a special covenant with God. While Jesus and his teachings obviously came out of this Hebrew tradition, they are considered universal and intended for all people, i.e. part of the "new covenant". The passage your pastor read would have been from the Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament, if you prefer), and therefore would have espoused the view of the Jews as God's chosen people.