NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm asking this cause my mother's family (they're from OK) thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread. I disagree.

So, what have they done to be so totally awesome, as my family (not on my dad's side) would have you belive?

I'm asking this cause my mother's family (they're from OK) thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread. I disagree.

So, what have they done to be so totally awesome, as my family (not on my dad's side) would have you belive?

Absolutely nothing. I'm guessing your mom's family views gay-bashing and racism as "good" things, eh?

You know how alot of people pretend to be something they arent to fit in? Yeah...

They are people afraid of change, afraid of diversity, afraid that society, THEIR society, will collapse of people think or act differently. Its people with low self-esteem looking for a niche, and looking for an explanation, and what better cop-out than to say "its God's work"?

They are people afraid of change, afraid of diversity, afraid that society, THEIR society, will collapse of people think or act differently. Its people with low self-esteem looking for a niche, and looking for an explanation, and what better cop-out than to say "its God's work"?

As a Christian fundimentalist, I cann tell you for a fact that none of that is true.

As a Christian fundimentalist, I cann tell you for a fact that none of that is true.

Then you are not a christian fundamentalist, or youre just in denial.

Then you are not a christian fundamentalist, or youre just in denial.


Okay, if you define "Christian Fundimentalist" as:

people afraid of change, afraid of diversity, afraid that society, THEIR society, will collapse of people think or act differently. Its people with low self-esteem looking for a niche, and looking for an explanation, and what better cop-out than to say "its God's work"?

Then no, I'm not.

But that's not the definition real people use in the real world.

I was thinking more along the lines of:

anti-modern and/or biblically literalist Protestant Christians (Harding).
mkmccarthy.homestead.com/files/terms.htm

I usually infer Christian Fundies to be Young Earth Creationists. Of course there are several types, such as the ones who say you'll go to hell for drinking, dancing, or other things like that too.

Just like with Al Qaeda, Christian extremists are made up of several factions with sometimes different views- their uniting factor is their extremeism.

The main problem with any religious fundamentalists are their insistance on telling everyone else that theirs is the only true belief. If thats what you believe, fine, just leave those who believe differently alone.

Any Christian who can't admit Christianity could be the wrong choice is a fundie to me.

The main problem with any religious fundamentalists are their insistance on telling everyone else that theirs is the only true belief. If thats what you believe, fine, just leave those who believe differently alone.

Yes, but we also happen to believe that that would be wrong.

Standing by and watching people slowly kill themselves hardly goes along with the Christian ethic of "love thy neighbor"

Any Christian who can't admit Christianity could be the wrong choice is a fundie to me.

Very well said. Blind faith is just that: Blind.

Yes, but we also happen to believe that that would be wrong.

Standing by and watching people slowly kill themselves hardly goes along with the Christian ethic of "love thy neighbor"

If the neighbour happens to be very happy with his chosen life, and hurts no other, what business is it of you in what he believes?

There are some threads that are just too idiotic to respond to; despite that fact that I'm responding, this is one of them. The problem starts beginning with asking, "what's their problem?" You have already assumed and are obviously convinced that there is a problem. The trend continues with the first responder: "I'm guessing your mom's family views gay-bashing and racism as "good" things" This person make a biased, clichéd statement about christian fundamentalists and claims they have done nothing to earn the respect they feel entitled to. Also the very title of the thread is refers to fundamentalists as Fundaloons. Is it OK to bash those who you condemn as bashers? And if you do it yourself, and are selective about who you bash, what right have you to look down on others who do it? Yet, we don't even know for sure whether they actually do or not! You are merely assuming they do. This entire thread is based on clichéd responses to common stereotypes. I have trouble even beginning to describe the unadulterated idiocy of this topic. I'm sorry but your topic sucks. I suggest dropping it, or making it about something of substance. Right now, it is utter bull shit.

Yes, but we also happen to believe that that would be wrong.

Standing by and watching people slowly kill themselves hardly goes along with the Christian ethic of "love thy neighbor"
And what if your beliefs are wrong?

And what if your beliefs are wrong?

Well, if the athiests are right then I will die and be unconcious forever so I'll never know about it.

If the muslims are right, I will burn in (the 6th) hell for all of eternity.

If the buddhists are right, then I will get another chance.

If the hindu are right, I'll probably be reincarnated as a naked mole rat

And if the pan-theists are right I will fail to become one with the world.

But you're the one who said I have the right to believe what I want, so if I want to believe that it's wrong for me to let people kill themselves, shouldn't I be able to?

I'm asking this cause my mother's family (they're from OK) thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread. I disagree.

So, what have they done to be so totally awesome, as my family (not on my dad's side) would have you belive?

I don't know for I cannot decipher your post. care to explain?

Very well said. Blind faith is just that: Blind.

Blessed are those who have not seen but yet believe.

But you're the one who said I have the right to believe what I want, so if I want to believe that it's wrong for me to let people kill themselves, shouldn't I be able to?

Believe whatever it is you want to believe, so long as it doesn't involve interfering with the beliefs of others.

Well, if the athiests are right then I will die and be unconcious forever so I'll never know about it.

If the muslims are right, I will burn in (the 6th) hell for all of eternity.

If the buddhists are right, then I will get another chance.

If the hindu are right, I'll probably be reincarnated as a naked mole rat

And if the pan-theists are right I will fail to become one with the world.

But you're the one who said I have the right to believe what I want, so if I want to believe that it's wrong for me to let people kill themselves, shouldn't I be able to?
What if they're all wrong?

And I didn't say that you had the right to your beliefs really... not that I'm saying you don't have the right to them, but someone else said that.

Blessed are those who have not seen but yet believe.
How clichéd.

How clichéd.

*shrugs*

Its the truth.

Believe whatever it is you want to believe, so long as it doesn't involve interfering with the beliefs of others.

How do you define "interfere"? If everyone told you your ideas are jacked up and insinuated that you are wrong--all the while saying, as a blanket statement, that you can believe whatever you want (although, you obviously are a total moron for actually believing it)--would that be considered trying to dissuade someone away from their belief? Would that be interfering? Does one have to physically interfere in order for it to count?

Blessed are those who have not seen but yet believe.

Perhaps they would like to buy the Eiffel Tower from me at a very reasonable price

Okay, if you define "Christian Fundimentalist" as:



Then no, I'm not.

OK. Denial it is then.

Believe whatever it is you want to believe, so long as it doesn't involve interfering with the beliefs of others.

But I believe that I have no choice but to interfere with other people's beliefs.

*snip*
And if the pan-theists are right I will fail to become one with the world.
*snip again*

"Pan-theists"? Are these religious chefs, or devout Trinidadian steel drummers?

Okay, okay, serious topic, fine. I don't care what you believe, but that absence of concern ends when you tell me, or anyone else but family or someone who ASKS, how to live. Simple enough, right? Not for some folks. They cook up arguments like "standing by while you kill yourself is hardly Christian" -- well, that's certainly subjective. If you believe that anything you interpret as "sinful" is self-destructive behavior from a theological viewpoint and NOT from, say, a physiological viewpoint, then you're cooking the issue to suit your taste and have stepped over the line into the desire to control others regardless of how saintly your apparent motivation.

If, for example, I have no problem with non-marital sex ("pre-marital" is itself a loaded term), and freely engage with willing participants in a manner that is responsible to my health and well-being and that of my chosen partner, but you believe that it's a sin and I'll burn for it -- you haven't got a leg to stand on. I'm not killing myself, no matter how much you believe I am. Sorry, but that kind of interference smacks of the desire for control, not the desire to see the most possible converts to Christianity, or indeed ANY religion. Fundies can't stand the fact that there are folks out there having fun on their own terms without harming anyone in an objective sense, but running afoul of their own dogma. Well, my karma just ran over your dogma. If you can't take "watching me kill myself", then I have a simple solution: DON'T WATCH.

I've come to accept that some people think that it's perfectly justified for me to be tortured for all time. I don't like it, but it doesn't really anger me any more.

But I believe that I have no choice but to interfere with other people's beliefs.
Well, there's good news for thinking folks then. Your freedom ends where mine begins.

I've come to accept that some people think that it's perfectly justified for me to be tortured for all time. I don't like it, but it doesn't really anger me any more.
WHO LET YOU OFF THE RACK?!?!?! BACK IN YOUR CELL, YOU!!!;)

But I believe that I have no choice but to interfere with other people's beliefs.

Then you are a fool. You do not have the right to interfere with other people's beliefs.

But I believe that I have no choice but to interfere with other people's beliefs.

You'd be an excellent Middle-Eastern dictator.

Their primary problems stem from having a weak mind.

Their primary problems stem from having a weak mind.

WHo has a weak mind? christians?

WHO LET YOU OFF THE RACK?!?!?! BACK IN YOUR CELL, YOU!!!;)
Well, I meant for all time starting from after I die, but I doubt they'd be too disappointed if it started early. Or they would, but only until they discovered my atheism.

WHo has a weak mind? christians?

Weakmindians. They bake a mean apple pie.

Christians... Muslims... Anyone who follows a religion really.

Infact it is only really Satanist factions that are intelligent and strong-minded.

Christians... Muslims... Anyone who follows a religion really.

Infact it is only really Satanist factions that are intelligent and strong-minded.

:rolleyes:

Yes, I can appreciate how that sounds, but I liken religion to drugs. They are used in the same fashion. Though admittedly the Bible is a damn good read.

Blessed are those who have not seen but yet believe.

Translation from xtianese: "Blessed are they who buy our bullshit with no critical thought. For they shall fill the collection plates."

Blessed are those who have not seen but yet believe.
Sounds pretty dumb. :rolleyes:

"Blessed is he whom gives generously..." *Priests recieves a back-hander*

"Blessed is McDonalds and all whom eat therein. Blessed also is the new pound-saver menu."

Go ahead and mock.

Go ahead and mock.

Thank you, but I have already done a fair bit of mocking.

Thank you, but I have already done a fair bit of mocking.

Yes you have. And as the Lord told Abraham, i'll bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you.

I hope you are prepared for the consequences of said mocking! If not, my advice to you is to repent before the Lord for your sins for you will be forgiven.

*shrugs*

Its the truth.

No. It isn't. Seeking the truth is what brings enlightment. Making void conjectures about how reality works is just that. If you study, theorize (not make conjectures, theorize) and get to UNDERSTAND rather than purely believe, you evolve. Belief works pretty nicely for basic purposes, but it's NOT ENOUGH.

No. It isn't. Seeking the truth is what brings enlightment. Making void conjectures about how reality works is just that. If you study, theorize (not make conjectures, theorize) and get to UNDERSTAND rather than purely believe, you evolve. Belief works pretty nicely for basic purposes, but it's NOT ENOUGH.

Faith is always enough. I have faith that i"m going to make through the next 48 hours. I know I will too. I have faith that I'm going to be seeing friends over summer break.

Faith is always enough and to say that faith is not enough is indeed rediculous.

I hope you are prepared for the consequences of said mocking! If not, my advice to you is to repent before the Lord for your sins for you will be forgiven.

So you're actually thinking that the one elightened being responsible for all creation is also enough of an insecure bully to send people to ETERNAL DAMNATION for MOCKING THEM? Do you believe in God or do you believe in an omnipotent schoolyard 8-year old? He may MOCK God, but you sure INSULT him.

Faith is always enough. I have faith that i"m going to make through the next 48 hours. I know I will too. I have faith that I'm going to be seeing friends over summer break.

Here we see a guy that will try to make a point by NOT DYING. And then show the fact that he's not dead two days later as EVIDENCE. :rolleyes:

Faith is always enough and to say that faith is not enough is indeed rediculous.

Ooo, NOW I'm convinced! *Sarcasm* :p

Just like with Al Qaeda, Christian extremists are made up of several factions with sometimes different views

Hmmm... yeah, I'll agree with that. Personally, I think people put too much stock in these extremists of all religions, because the fact is, they are a distinct minority. TV news crews love to make sensational stories and get the public wound up about Muslims and there danger to the US. But only a handful of them are. Everyone needs to be more open minded, and not only those with religious opinions.

The main problem with any religious fundamentalists are their insistance on telling everyone else that theirs is the only true belief. If thats what you believe, fine, just leave those who believe differently alone.

That's not fair. Part of being any part of society is being able to listen respectfully to other's opinions. To draw yourself away from them is to draw yourself away from society. Granted some of them can become a pain in the ass sometimes, but everyone can be like that sometimes, can't they?

SqR

So you're actually thinking that the one elightened being responsible for all creation is also enough of an insecure bully to send people to ETERNAL DAMNATION for MOCKING THEM? Do you believe in God or do you believe in an omnipotent schoolyard 8-year old? He may MOCK God, but you sure INSULT him.

I believe in the Lord my God who sent his only Begotten Son to die for us for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.

I have already forgiven him for his mockery of my faith.

Well isn't forgiveness grand? I shall do no such thing as beg a character from a work of fiction for forgiveness, though.

Well isn't forgiveness grand? I shall do no such thing as beg a character from a work of fiction for forgiveness, though.

That is your choice. I'll be praying for your soul.

I believe in the Lord my God who sent his only Begotten Son to die for us for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.

I have already forgiven him for his mockery of my faith.

Look. God is not someone you USE to go to Heaven. He's not a tour guide, nor he is a travel agent to a real nice place. He's not someone you bribe with worship, he doesn't NEED your worship, he's an omnipotent being who's evolved far past the point of saving people on account on them rubbing his EGO. Whoever is the being responsible for creation, he surely isn't the kind of figure that would be petty enough to damnate Ghandi and save a murderer that said his name two seconds later. We're talking about something that's FAR beyond my comprehension and FURTHER BEYOND yours. He's not yours to protect, he's not your travel agent and he's not your product. Your faith isn't HIM, your faith is your VIEW of him. Do you really believe that all those religions and cultures that never met Christianity were sent to Hell? Do you believe Ghandi was? For crying out loud, Corneliu! The world is NOT 1984. This is not a dystopia, God is not the Big Brother. Learn this. Understand. And, for each and every being that has some weight in this existance, STUDY!

I believe in the Lord my God who sent his only Begotten Son to die for us for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.

I have already forgiven him for his mockery of my faith.

Corneliu, in response to my last quote, I'd label you an extremist. Lighten up, OK? If you truly have more than a superfiscial (sp?) faith, then you should know that no words of yours are potent enough to sway others with much effect. Their opinions are their own to craft. And if you do indeed think that you are capable of being like God, you are a hypocrite my friend.

As a side note, I'd have to agree with Heikoku, living for 48 hours is the most pitiful miracle I've ever heard of, unless you're severly depressed, or lacking in the mental department. Don't run with scissors.

SqR

As a side note, I'd have to agree with Heikoku, living for 48 hours is the most pitiful miracle I've ever heard of, unless you're severly depressed, or lacking in the mental department. Don't run with scissors.

SqR

Festivus miracle! :p

Corneliu, in response to my last quote, I'd label you an extremist. Lighten up, OK? If you truly have more than a superfiscial (sp?) faith, then you should know that no words of yours are potent enough to sway others with much effect. And if you do indeed think that, you are a hypocrite my friend.

As a side not, I'd have to agree with Heikoku, living for 48 hours is the most pitiful miracle I've ever heard of, unless you're severly depressed, or lacking in the mental department. Don't run with scissors.

SqR

I'm in the middle of finals so there :-P

I'm in the middle of finals so there :-P

Fair enough, I got done with AP's last week.

*snip*

Nice rant. I worship the Lord and give him praise. I am living my life according to His Word so that I can receive eternal happiness when I leave this mortal world.

Fair enough, I got done with AP's last week.

I hate finals week so yea. Surviving it is a miracle :D

Blessed are those who have not seen but yet believe.

Should read: blessed are those who are intelligent enough to look.

I'm in the middle of finals so there :-P

I'm an occultist, believing in my own power. As such, I'll have to take about 7 4-hour tests in 5 days. So, by your reasoning, if I make it alive, I'm a god? :p

Please don't pray for my 'soul'. It disturbs me... If you must waste your time in prayer, then pray for enlightenment that you might realise the foolishness of religion.

Please don't pray for my 'soul'. It disturbs me... If you must waste your time in prayer, then pray for enlightenment that you might realise the foolishness of religion.

I'll pray for your enlightenment that you see God's love for you.

Nice rant. I worship the Lord and give him praise. I am living my life according to His Word so that I can receive eternal happiness when I leave this mortal world.

I respect God far more than you do, it seems. I believe him to be an evolved being that created existance. You think he's a being that's petty enough to take worship as price for eternal bliss.

Also, you seem to have a problem ANSWERING TO MY GHANDI POINT!!!

{snip}
That's not fair. Part of being any part of society is being able to listen respectfully to other's opinions. To draw yourself away from them is to draw yourself away from society. Granted some of them can become a pain in the ass sometimes, but everyone can be like that sometimes, can't they?

SqR

There is a great difference between listening respectfully to anothers opinion, and having that opinion, loudly, forced on yourself and anyone else in earshot. As to drawing away from society: I have been doing that all my life.

I am enlightened enough to know that there is NO god. None whatsoever. It is foolhardy to think there is. People use religion and belief in god the same way a junkie uses a line of cocaine. Oh, and both are as bad as one another.

I am enlightened enough to know that there is NO god. None whatsoever. It is foolhardy to think there is. People use religion and belief in god the same way a junkie uses a line of cocaine. Oh, and both are as bad as one another.

I forget who said that religion is the opiate of the masses. BTW junkies use heroine, not cocaine.

It was Karl Marx. Sorry, my drug addict knowledge is a tad lacking. *grins*

I forget who said that religion is the opiate of the masses. BTW junkies use heroine, not cocaine.

That would be Marx, I believe. I don't get to that point - I believe existance is far more complicated than that which five senses can gather. However, a completely evolved being that's, at the same time, borderline psychopathic, no, THAT doesn't exist and I can prove it does not.

There's nothing wrong with Christian "Fundaloons." Christian "Pantaloons," on the other hand, are definitely wrong. And they are no longer fashionable.

It was Karl Marx. Sorry, my drug addict knowledge is a tad lacking. *grins*

Lets just say I've know a wide variety of people.:cool:

That would be Marx, I believe. I don't get to that point - I believe existance is far more complicated than that which five senses can gather. However, a completely evolved being that's, at the same time, borderline psychopathic, no, THAT doesn't exist and I can prove it does not.

You cannot prove a negative.

*snip*

sigh... :rolleyes:

You cannot prove a negative.

Please, please, please, don't be a hypocrite. Claiming to know for a fact, (it might not have been you that said this) that a God is impossible is JUST as bad as someone claiming that you are going to hell for not believing in their God.

You cannot prove a negative.

When it's a contradiction, I can. God can't be at the same time perfectly good and evil enough to damnate non-believers. Thus contradictory, thus negative, which can be proven by the contradiction here.

Please, please, please, don't be a hypocrite. Claiming to know for a fact, (it might not have been you that said this) that a God is impossible is JUST as bad as someone claiming that you are going to hell for not believing in their God.

But a god that's contradictory would vanish in a puff of logic, Sqrt.

I respect God far more than you do, it seems. I believe him to be an evolved being that created existance. You think he's a being that's petty enough to take worship as price for eternal bliss.

Also, you seem to have a problem ANSWERING TO MY GHANDI POINT!!!

Except a man be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

Except a man be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

Ah, so you believe in reincarnation now? :p

Ah, so you believe in reincarnation now? :p

:rolleyes:

When it's a contradiction, I can. God can't be at the same time perfectly good and evil enough to damnate non-believers. Thus contradictory, thus negative, which can be proven by the contradiction here.

A contridiction may contain a negative, but of itself it is not a negative.

:rolleyes:

You have nothing else besides quotes from a book (I can quote anything you want, doesn't make it true) and cute smileys.

You lose. Please, PLEASE, whatever superior being is there, give me a worthy challenge in these forums next time...

A contridiction may contain a negative, but of itself it is not a negative.

Okay, let's assume so. In any case I can prove that said god is contradictory, thus doesn't exist. o_o

Please, please, please, don't be a hypocrite. Claiming to know for a fact, (it might not have been you that said this) that a God is impossible is JUST as bad as someone claiming that you are going to hell for not believing in their God.

I have never claimed that god could not exist. If anything I believe that we each are our own gods. I believe that man created god (or the idea of god) not the other way around.

You have nothing else besides quotes from a book (I can quote anything you want, doesn't make it true) and cute smileys.

You lose. Please, PLEASE, whatever superior being is there, give me a worthy challenge in these forums next time...

Dear Heavenly father, I pray for these poor souls who have yet come to know your love. I pray that you reveal your love to these people so that they can believe in you and that they can stop their doubting.

Okay, let's assume so. In any case I can prove that said god is contradictory, thus doesn't exist. o_o

As a human construct, Contridiction can't be used to prove or disprove anything. Human philosophy is full of contradictory ideas. "God" is a human created idea after all.

I'm asking this cause my mother's family (they're from OK) thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread. I disagree.

So, what have they done to be so totally awesome, as my family (not on my dad's side) would have you belive?

Maybye, just maybye, it has nothing to do with your categorization. Maybye your mother's family just sucks. People of all kinds suck you know.

Maybye your father's family sucks. Maybye all of you suck, you certainly are prejudiced. And prejudice sucks.

Dear Heavenly father, I pray for these poor souls who have yet come to know your love. I pray that you reveal your love to these people so that they can believe in you and that they can stop their doubting.

You do realise how arrogant this is don't you? If you must pray for people then do it in private without waving it in their faces. This isn't a divine dick-measuring contest.

is that they're not fun. :(

You do realise how arrogant this is don't you? If you must pray for people then do it in private without waving it in their faces. This isn't a divine dick-measuring contest.

I'll pray where and how I want to pray. No one has the right to tell someone they cannot pray in public.

I'll pray where and how I want to pray. No one has the right to tell someone they cannot pray in public.

And no one has the right to tell some one that they must, to whom or how.
That is the real problem with fundies (of all religions).

Dear Heavenly father, I pray for these poor souls who have yet come to know your love. I pray that you reveal your love to these people so that they can believe in you and that they can stop their doubting.

Corneliu... STOP! You like to quote stuff? Remember the part where in the Bible it said something like, "Do not be like the hypocrites that show how they fast and pray in the open so that everyone will say to themselves, 'there is a religious man'. Instead, pray in secret so that no one but you're father in heaven may hear you." Remeber that???!!! If you claim to be so God-awful Christian... SHUT YOUR YAP, you're not helping.

Corneliu... STOP! You like to quote stuff? Remember the part where in the Bible it said something like, "Do not be like the hypocrites that show how they fast and pray in the open so that everyone will say to themselves, 'there is a religious man'. Instead, pray in secret so that no one but you're father in heaven may hear you." Remeber that???!!! If you claim to be so God-awful Christian... SHUT YOUR YAP, you're not helping.

The two words I bolded, do not go together :D

I do pray in private, I also pray in church and I pray in a classroom. Always silently.

I'll pray where and how I want to pray. No one has the right to tell someone they cannot pray in public.

No, we can't make you.

However, if you've been asked to stop patronising and insulting people then it is hardly very Christian of you to continue now is it?

However, if you've been asked to stop patronising and insulting people then it is hardly very Christian of you to continue now is it?

Applause.

Your public prayer is a mockery of Christianity, and as someone who has done his fair share of mocking, I should know.

No, we can't make you.

However, if you've been asked to stop patronising and insulting people then it is hardly very Christian of you to continue now is it?

I have not insulted anyone.

I have not insulted anyone.

I feel insulted and tainted.

I have not insulted anyone.

Offence is dependant on perception, not intention. Even if you didn't mean to insult that it how your comments have been perceived.

Offence is dependant on perception, not intention. Even if you didn't mean to insult that it how your comments have been perceived.

You know what they say. People take offense and feel insulted about the littlest thing.

You know what they say. People take offense and feel insulted about the littlest thing.

And it's only polite to avoid causing said offence if doing so isn't a great inconvenience to you, yes?

If I want to tell a joke which mocks Christianity I'll wait until my Christian friends aren't there.

If I'm taken to dinner by a vegan I avoid ordering a rare steak.

If you're talking to atheists it'd be polite to defer any praying you wish to do for them until they've gone (unless they actually requested prayer of course).

As I've already said, we can't make you stop; I merely politely request that you desist.

I'm off to bed now, goodnight to you all.

Dear Heavenly father, I pray for these poor souls who have yet come to know your love. I pray that you reveal your love to these people so that they can believe in you and that they can stop their doubting.

Because that doubting and pointing of contradictions makes you insecure as you realize there's no way to defend your ideas but to quote a book and hope all logical thinking suddenly disappears.

How insecure.

Any Christian who can't admit Christianity could be the wrong choice is a fundie to me.

Any Christian who can admit it might be the wrong choice isn't a Christian. The Bible clearly states that Jesus is the only way to heaven.

I guess that pretty much all actually Christians are fundamentals. I'm a Bible-fundamentalist, myself - I'm not interested in anything a sect has tacked on (or removed to make it more palatable, for that matter).

And no, I'm not a racist, or a homophobe, or anything else you might care to label me with.

Any Christian who can't admit Christianity could be the wrong choice is a fundie to me.
Good post. *bows*

Any Christian who can admit it might be the wrong choice isn't a Christian. The Bible clearly states that Jesus is the only way to heaven.Yes, quite clearly, with different wording for each translation, huh? By means of.

I guess that pretty much all actually Christians are fundamentals. I'm a Bible-fundamentalist, myself - I'm not interested in anything a sect has tacked on (or removed to make it more palatable, for that matter).

And no, I'm not a racist, or a homophobe, or anything else you might care to label me with.
Perhaps that's what you don't understand - by your own claim, you'll be whatever that stupid book says you are, in pleasing of "your god" or "your christ".

Any Christian who can admit it might be the wrong choice isn't a Christian. The Bible clearly states that Jesus is the only way to heaven.


I kind of take offense at this. I BELIEVE Jesus is the way to heaven, but that doesn't mean I know it for fact. Believing something that I admit I can't prove doesn't mean I'm not a Christian, it means I have faith.

Any Christian who can't admit Christianity could be the wrong choice is a fundie to me.
There is a difference between being a fundamentalist and being totally confident in your religion.
Fundamentalists take the word of God (The Bible in this case) as being the only belief, the only way of conducting your religion, and do not accept any conflicting views or ideas.

Good post. *bows*
Even though it is inaccurate and misinformed?

The two words I bolded, do not go together :D

I do pray in private, I also pray in church and I pray in a classroom. Always silently.
The point isn't to pray silently, it is to not brag about praying, I think the wording is to "Beat your chest". Unfortunately, that is exactly what you are doing right here.

Even though it is inaccurate and misinformed?
It provides of course the modicum of difficulty that such threads require.
So what do you have?

EDIT:Further, how inaccurate is it? To have confidence doesn't mean you don't deal with doubt, nor that you believe in the infallability of the material in question. Perhaps the poster isn't misinformed, and inviting "information" into a topic whose whole existence is owed to "faith" which, by definition, is a form of delusion (or confidence for that matter ;) ) isn't really where you want to make calls of "information" or "accuracy".

It provides of course the modicum of difficulty that such threads require.
So what do you have?

EDIT:Further, how inaccurate is it? To have confidence doesn't mean you don't deal with doubt, nor that you believe in the infallability of the material in question. Perhaps the poster isn't misinformed, and inviting "information" into a topic whose whole existence is owed to "faith" which, by definition, is a form of delusion (or confidence for that matter ;) ) isn't really where you want to make calls of "information" or "accuracy".
Fundamentalists are people who believe that the Bible is the only acceptable source of beliefs and religious ideas. People who don't doubt their religion may also be fundamentalists, but they don't have to be. In lumping the two groups together, the original poster misrepresented a large portion of Christianity, and I was trying to point that out.

Fundamentalists are people who believe that the Bible is the only acceptable source of beliefs and religious ideas. People who don't doubt their religion may also be fundamentalists, but they don't have to be. In lumping the two groups together, the original poster misrepresented a large portion of Christianity, and I was trying to point that out.
Perhaps that is the case, but can you cite an example of someone who is a fundamentalist who DOESN'T pronounce the ineffability of their religion?

There are some threads that are just too idiotic to respond to; despite that fact that I'm responding, this is one of them. The problem starts beginning with asking, "what's their problem?" You have already assumed and are obviously convinced that there is a problem. The trend continues with the first responder: "I'm guessing your mom's family views gay-bashing and racism as "good" things" This person make a biased, clichéd statement about christian fundamentalists and claims they have done nothing to earn the respect they feel entitled to. Also the very title of the thread is refers to fundamentalists as Fundaloons. Is it OK to bash those who you condemn as bashers? And if you do it yourself, and are selective about who you bash, what right have you to look down on others who do it? Yet, we don't even know for sure whether they actually do or not! You are merely assuming they do. This entire thread is based on clichéd responses to common stereotypes. I have trouble even beginning to describe the unadulterated idiocy of this topic. I'm sorry but your topic sucks. I suggest dropping it, or making it about something of substance. Right now, it is utter bull shit.
You can make cliched respones to stereotypes when you have as many posts as me, okay?

Perhaps that is the case, but can you cite an example of someone who is a fundamentalist who DOESN'T pronounce the ineffability of their religion?
I am sure they exist, but that was not the argument I was trying to make, it was merely that the original poster was unfairly lumping together many groups, some of which are viewed as having extreme views, and some of which are not.
To respond to your question, I would think that the percentage of people who doubt their faith among the fundamentalists would be much less than in the normal religious community.

You can make cliched respones to stereotypes when you have as many posts as me, okay?
Dude, you haven't posted that much. Come up with a different argument, or something, but don't be spewing relative experiance when you only have 150 (EDIT: sorry..170) posts.

P.S. In order to clarify my point (and to anticipate future attacks): I know I have fewer posts than even you, but this post isn't about me, it's about you.

There are some threads that are just too idiotic to respond to; despite that fact that I'm responding, this is one of them. The problem starts beginning with asking, "what's their problem?" You have already assumed and are obviously convinced that there is a problem. The trend continues with the first responder: "I'm guessing your mom's family views gay-bashing and racism as "good" things" This person make a biased, clichéd statement about christian fundamentalists and claims they have done nothing to earn the respect they feel entitled to. Also the very title of the thread is refers to fundamentalists as Fundaloons. Is it OK to bash those who you condemn as bashers? And if you do it yourself, and are selective about who you bash, what right have you to look down on others who do it? Yet, we don't even know for sure whether they actually do or not! You are merely assuming they do. This entire thread is based on clichéd responses to common stereotypes. I have trouble even beginning to describe the unadulterated idiocy of this topic. I'm sorry but your topic sucks. I suggest dropping it, or making it about something of substance. Right now, it is utter bull shit.
Thank you.

The same thing that's wrong with Christianity: the Christians.
*runs away never to be seen in thread again*

You can make cliched respones to stereotypes when you have as many posts as me, okay?

If that is the case then I do not want to see a cliched response until you get to my post count :D

If that is the case then I do not want to see a cliched response until you get to my post count :D
Exactly, when you have someone with 17k posts around on a thread, you don't brag about anything under 5k.
It's just not done.:cool:

In time you will learn...

The same thing that's wrong with Christianity: the Christians.
*runs away never to be seen in thread again*
Why even bother...

I am sure they exist, but that was not the argument I was trying to make, it was merely that the original poster was unfairly lumping together many groups, some of which are viewed as having extreme views, and some of which are not.It may have been unfair to qualify all of the groups as the same, because obviously, there is a great schism as to the manner of understanding that biblical research allots, hence all the denominations.
I would, in my own experience though, say that fundamentalists do, by definition of being fundamentalists, represent a dangerous and extreme point of view.
To respond to your question, I would think that the percentage of people who doubt their faith among the fundamentalists would be much less than in the normal religious community.I imagine so.
Well, good response anyway, thank you.

Exactly, when you have someone with 17k posts around on a thread, you don't brag about anything under 5k.
It's just not done.:cool:

In time you will learn...
So he can brag about posting but not about praying?
;)

ROTFLAMO:p

When I read the last page... Cracked me to pieces. I didn't really mean it when I said whatever the hell it was I said.

Oh, and just for the record, counting all the other places I post at, I have about 2,000 posts. Although, you guys' probably got another 2 zeros after that...

I believe in the Lord my God who sent his only Begotten Son to die for us for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.


Just one thing, why the hell would he do that? Didn't he want kids?

And that everlasting life part, it's a bit far fetched isn't it? I mean c'mon? You can answer truthfully, god wont mind.

Oh those? There just horns, nothing serious.

Blessed are those who have not seen but yet believe.

"Pity not the blind man, for he is hindered not by the visions of this world, but rather pity yourselves, for he will see the light before you do."

(A cookie for those who know where this quote comes from... if you recognize the quote, then you can probably guess what some of my feelings towards religious fundamentalists and dominionists are as well.)

Dear Heavenly father, I pray for these poor souls who have yet come to know your love. I pray that you reveal your love to these people so that they can believe in you and that they can stop their doubting.

Save your breath. If I ever truly convert to Christianity (beyond the half-hearted facade that I use to dodge Christian fundamentalists that I encounter in real life), then I'll do so if and only if I come to agree with the teachings of Christianity as I see them.

I'll pray where and how I want to pray. No one has the right to tell someone they cannot pray in public.

Didn't Jesus say not to pray like the hypocrites who when they fast stand on the street, look pitiful and hammer their breasts to exhibit their piety? Didn't Jesus say to pray in private and when you fast to get up, groom yourself and conduct yourself as if you are not doing anything special so that your praying was between the Father and you?

Jesus called those who make an exhibition of their piety hypocrites.

You offer nothing but insipid rhetoric. And you don't seem to be that knowledgeable about the scriptures you so love to quote. You have favorites but no depth.

(beyond the half-hearted facade that I use to dodge Christian fundamentalists that I encounter in real life)

Why fake it?

When it's a contradiction, I can. God can't be at the same time perfectly good and evil enough to damnate non-believers. Thus contradictory, thus negative, which can be proven by the contradiction here.


But, He isn't evil. He is just. Which is part of being perfectly good. We are all sinners. We all deserve hell for all eternity. Christ, by being the only true non-sinner, was able to take our place before the divine Judge and accept our punishment. This is a gift to all who will accept it. All others are lost. There is no contradiction here.

I don't know much about Gandhi, but if he believed he could get to heaven without Jesus, then he didn't.

...there's no way to defend your ideas but to quote a book and hope all logical thinking suddenly disappears.

Ahhh... logic. What an intersting way to define how we think. One must question why logic cannot include a belief, and why a belief cannot include logic? It can. And making a distinction between logic and belief is so dangerous. Logic has such shortcomings when applied by humans, don't you agree? Our knowledge and use of logic is based on tangible things. There are some topics that are out of reach of our comprehension, therefore logic is irrelevant and useless in many areas, like understanding of endlessness, or a fourth dimension. Any "logical" human should take this into account, and also the fact that there are many other things that are beyond human comprehension. I'm on a roll here! :D I'd better stop before I say something dumb.

SqR

PS. Zendragon... I wonder if Corneliu has ever read the Poisonwood Bible? ;)

But, He isn't evil. He is just. Which is part of being perfectly good. We are all sinners. We all deserve hell for all eternity. Christ, by being the only true non-sinner, was able to take our place before the divine Judge and accept our punishment. This is a gift to all who will accept it. All others are lost. There is no contradiction here.

I don't know much about Gandhi, but if he believed he could get to heaven without Jesus, then he didn't.
Excuse me, but Hell is a sentence for ETERNAL TORTURE. Eternal. What fucking sin does an unbaptized baby commit that is worthy of eternal torture?

Excuse me, but Hell is a sentence for ETERNAL TORTURE. Eternal. What fucking sin does an unbaptized baby commit that is worthy of eternal torture?

Not having his/hers parents pay the baptism fee to the church.

Ahhh... logic. What an intersting way to define how we think. One must question why logic cannot include a belief, and why a belief cannot include logic? It can. And making a distinction between logic and belief is so dangerous. Logic has such shortcomings when applied by humans, don't you agree? Our knowledge and use of logic is based on tangible things. There are some topics that are out of reach of our comprehension, therefore logic is irrelevant and useless in many areas, like understanding of endlessness, or a fourth dimension. Any "logical" human should take this into account, and also the fact that there are many other things that are beyond human comprehension. I'm on a roll here! :D I'd better stop before I say something dumb.

SqR

Logical response. I bow down to you.

PS. Zendragon... I wonder if Corneliu has ever read the Poisonwood Bible? ;)

PS: What?

Not having his/hers parents pay the baptism fee to the church.
I guess so.

Look, here's how it works:

IF God is just, and God is all-powerful, then basically what they are saying is that they believe anybody who God sends to Hell deserved it. Hell is an ETERNAL torture dimension, from what I understand. I can't stress the ETERNAL bit enough. Do these people understand what that means? Do they understand the concept of "making the punishment fit the crime?" Human beings have only existed for like 6000 years, to here them tell it, but they think it is just to sentence human beings to ETERNAL torture if said humans fail to "find Jesus."

Let that sink in. They think that all humans are born DESERVING TO BE TORTURED FOR ALL ETERNITY.

Honestly, am I the only one who is horrified beyond words at this entire "moral" system? These people are saying they believe that every single human being innately deserves to be tortured forever and ever. How can we possibly trust these people to show any respect for human life at all?

I guess so.

Look, here's how it works:

IF God is just, and God is all-powerful, then basically what they are saying is that they believe anybody who God sends to Hell deserved it. Hell is an ETERNAL torture dimension, from what I understand. I can't stress the ETERNAL bit enough. Do these people understand what that means? Do they understand the concept of "making the punishment fit the crime?" Do they really think that all humans are born DESERVING TO BE TORTURED FOR ALL ETERNITY?

Honestly, am I the only one who is horrified beyond words at this entire "moral" system? These people are saying they believe that every single human being innately deserves to be tortured forever and ever. How can we possibly trust these people to show any respect for human life at all?

You can't. Thats the problem. To fundies, if you don't believe as they do, you are not human, and even if you were, you are damned.

Okay, if you define "Christian Fundimentalist" as:



Then no, I'm not.

But that's not the definition real people use in the real world.

I was thinking more along the lines of:

Hmm...

Interesting.

As a Papist, would you share the view that the Old Testement is a history of the development of the understanding of God and of spirituality, that culminated with the arrival of Jesus and his final message?

Or would you take the early stuff at face value?

You can't. Thats the problem. To fundies, if you don't believe as they do, you are not human, and even if you were, you are damned.
Frankly, I can't even really take it seriously, because to me they sound like a bunch of kids on the playground when they start talking about "eternal life" and "eternal damnation."

It's like how your buddy would say, "You're ugly times a million!"
And you would say, "Oh yeah? You're ugly times a gazillion!"
And your buddy would respond, "You're ugly times infinity!"
And you would rejoin, "You're ugly times infinity PLUS ONE!"

With the fundies, it's,
"My God will let me live on forever and ever!"
"Oh yeah? My God will reward me with perfect happiness for all eternity!"
"Oh yeah? Mine will give me perfect happiness for eternity PLUS VIRGINS!"

I guess so.

Look, here's how it works:

IF God is just, and God is all-powerful, then basically what they are saying is that they believe anybody who God sends to Hell deserved it. Hell is an ETERNAL torture dimension, from what I understand. I can't stress the ETERNAL bit enough. Do these people understand what that means? Do they understand the concept of "making the punishment fit the crime?" Human beings have only existed for like 6000 years, to here them tell it, but they think it is just to sentence human beings to ETERNAL torture if said humans fail to "find Jesus."

Let that sink in. They think that all humans are born DESERVING TO BE TORTURED FOR ALL ETERNITY.

Honestly, am I the only one who is horrified beyond words at this entire "moral" system? These people are saying they believe that every single human being innately deserves to be tortured forever and ever. How can we possibly trust these people to show any respect for human life at all?

Perhaps they also believe that although people are flawed, that we should display love and that humility to God will bring us something more beautiful than our flawed selves.

Then again, they might be a bunch of loons, but let us not jump to conclusions.

Why fake it?

The hard part about arguing with 20 religious fundies at once isn't that they outnumber you, it's that they're bleeping persistent. By throwing up a facade, you can decide the time and place of the arguments for yourself, to minimize the chance of being outshouted.

If the presence of the facade still confuses you... look at my location. Living in redneck country isn't fun for an agnostic, even without adding in the liberal and libertarian parts of my philosophy.

Why? Because of the complete and utter hypocrisy presented by religious fundamentalism of any form, no matter the faith. I am a very proud Episcopalian, and I am ashamed of what so many in this nation make Christianity out to be. This may be kind of long. Heh.

Okay, so first, let's start out with gay marriage. My prime argument here is that the religious support for this is completely bigoted. God says that no sin is any worse than another. If gay marriage is so bad, why isn't adultery illegal? Why is it that the divorce rate in Christian families is just as great as those who claim to be of no faith? And even beyond the theological arguments, there is nothing that compel a homosexual to wake up in the morning and think to him/herself, "Hey, I think I'm going to put myself up to the scorn of general society today." There isn't anything that could, that's what. It's not a choice. You're born that way.

Second, let's move on to the creation of a Christian theocratic order that some argue for. Remember in Matthew when Jesus says render what is Caesar's unto Caesar and what is God's unto God? Yeah. That pretty much says religion needs to keep the hell away from politics. This pretty much covers most arguments involving faith-based laws, including the creationism v. intelligent design argument, gay marriage (again), Bush's faith-based initiative program, etc. So you get the idea.

Yes you have. And as the Lord told Abraham, i'll bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you.

I hope you are prepared for the consequences of said mocking! If not, my advice to you is to repent before the Lord for your sins for you will be forgiven.

My advice is that you find someone to have sex with and do it immediately. Then I suggest you take a long hard look at that trashy little piece of immorality you xtians constantly hold up as holy.

But hey I just think you should consider the consequences of your refusal to see the world as it is. Namely that when you die and nothing happens you are gonna be so pissed you didn't have more fun in life.

You guys are silly.