NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok which in your opinion is the better Vigilanty? The Punisher, with his brutality, skills, and Marine Corp training. Or Batman with his hightech gizmoes, money and skills.

batman...he has a cool car

the punisher has a special place in my heart because hes a marine. and I lke his tacktics. though I must admit I'd like to have batmans car.

They both have their methods and they both work.

Batman, not only does he have the tech, he also has training above and beyond a Marine (which he's taken down a few of them from time to time), and he has the brains to actually plan.

Yeah but which would you say is more affective?

Batman is teh betterz. The Punisher is compensating for a teeny . . . something-or-other . . . wif doze big ol' gunz ;)

plus batman has a horse that 'breaths' fire you cant beat that:p

Batman, not only does he have the tech, he also has training above and beyond a Marine (which he's taken down a few of them from time to time), and he has the brains to actually plan.

Frank castle was force reacon so that kicks the shit out of training that batman has. And unless you haven noticed the punisher plans his things out ahead also so you argument is pointless.

Yeah but which would you say is more affective?

In a long term perspective, Frank Castle. He has a tendency to eliminate the criminals rather than leave them for the police to pick up. Batman could kill if he could ever break his psychological compulsions but his habit of leaving criminals alive for authorities (albeit severely shit-beaten) would make him slightly more acceptable to Blue-State Societies than Castle. In Red-State Societies, the reverse would be true.

Batman is teh betterz. The Punisher is compensating for a teeny . . . something-or-other . . . wif doze big ol' gunz ;)

so just because the punisher usees guns that makes him a worse vigilanty? dude come up with a beter argument.

so just because the punisher usees guns that makes him a worse vigilanty? dude come up with a beter argument.
No, that he uses gunz because of his teeny peepee makes him a worse vigilante

No, that he uses gunz because of his teeny peepee makes him a worse vigilante

dude come up witrh a better argument.

Why? We're talking about comicbook characters!

I've said it before, Batman is a fucking detective. Punisher can't deal with that.

Unless you have something relivent to say I prefer it if you'f shut up.

The Punisher has Marine training? Gee, I guess he must have been sick the day they taught the concept of taking cover.

And that bit where he rides an amusment park rollar coaster while standing and fireing an smg with each hand? What part of marine training covers that?

I've said it before, Batman is a fucking detective. Punisher can't deal with that.

Lets see batman deal with a 30-06 in the head fired from over a thousand away.

Frank castle was force reacon so that kicks the shit out of training that batman has. And unless you haven noticed the punisher plans his things out ahead also so you argument is pointless.

Once the Punisher has kicked the crap out of the Hulk and forced the government to give-up ever wanting to stop him...then we can compare training, skills and effectiveness.:cool:

Why? We're talking about comicbook characters!

Nobody pointed a gun at your head and said "Take the poll and post or your brain splatters" either.

:rolleyes:

Frank castle was force reacon so that kicks the shit out of training that batman has. And unless you haven noticed the punisher plans his things out ahead also so you argument is pointless.
Let me see here, Batman according to the current lines, is a man at the top physical peak of humanity. He has training in I don't know how many unarmed styles (espcially as his authors keep making new ones), in weapons, chemicals, computers, mechanics, and so on and so forth. He has managed to set up a system that has turned a city into his personal playground, a personna that causes people to wet themselves with fear, and of course, managed to take out the whole of the Justice League, including Superman.

He is a noted actor and makeup artist, able to create personnas and blend in, inlcuding her main disquise as Bruce Wayne.

And of course he has a cool car.

You were saying?

Batman is a Scientist, Cad and Playboy wit witty oneliners and his own TV series.

Batman has been everywhere many times in many forms as far as i know Punisher hasn't and even then he cant compare to 'The Bat'!

The Punisher has Marine training? Gee, I guess he must have been sick the day they taught the concept of taking cover.

And that bit where he rides an amusment park rollar coaster while standing and fireing an smg with each hand? What part of marine training covers that?

Force reacon man. in RL they are the crazyest mutherfuckers around though your right about the duck and cover bit. castel could remember to do a bit more of that

Nobody pointed a gun at your head and said "Take the poll and post or your brain splatters" either.

:rolleyes:
And no one said I had to take threads like this seriously, either, now did they?

Who's the better vigilante depends on your own personal views.

If you view criminals as irredeemable scum who need to be cleansed from the world at all costs, Frank Castle's the man for you.

If no matter how vile someone is you think justice and due process is most important, then Batman would be more cup of tea for you out of the two.

Let me see here, Batman according to the current lines, is a man at the top physical peak of humanity. He has training in I don't know how many unarmed styles (espcially as his authors keep making new ones), in weapons, chemicals, computers, mechanics, and so on and so forth. He has managed to set up a system that has turned a city into his personal playground, a personna that causes people to wet themselves with fear, and of course, managed to take out the whole of the Justice League, including Superman.

He is a noted actor and makeup artist, able to create personnas and blend in, inlcuding her main disquise as Bruce Wayne.

And of course he has a cool car.

You were saying?

Fist I don't care how many martial arts Batman knows cause he dosen't know comand sambo and that means castles got an edge. secondly he is not a master of weapons. this new fangled batman shit pisses me off. "Oh hes a fucken nija!" bull shit. And personaly Id be more scared out by the guy pointing a lightmachinegun at me then the guy in the spandex suit. and never mention that shit justice league ever again. though you have a point about the disguises.

Once the Punisher has kicked the crap out of the Hulk and forced the government to give-up ever wanting to stop him...then we can compare training, skills and effectiveness.:cool:

hes beaten the hulk twice. thats a start.

Fist I don't care how many martial arts Batman knows cause he dosen't know comand sambo and that means castles got an edge. secondly he is not a master of weapons. this new fangled batman shit pisses me off. "Oh hes a fucken nija!" bull shit. And personaly Id be more scared out by the guy pointing a lightmachinegun at me then the guy in the spandex suit. and never mention that shit justice league ever again. though you have a point about the disguises.

I think you're having a reality bias despite talking about comic book characters. I mean, if the Hulk and Superman can go around smashing large heavy objects it's kind of silly.

http://www.incognitocomics.co.uk/cache%5CSFULLS_1239001.jpg

vs

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/killthemeal/animated%20hero/punisher_shot.gif

Honestly don't even bother trying to construct an argument for the Punisher being better than Batman.

These two threads seal the deal in favour of Batman.
Bush and Batman! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=418448)
Holy -Insert your own catchprase here- Batman! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=395862)

Besides...
http://www.superherostuff.com/OtherItems/RefrigeratorMagnets/Images/batman_symbol_magnet_2.jpg
I've got a magnet and the T-shirt.:)

I think you're having a reality bias despite talking about comic book characters. I mean, if the Hulk and Superman can go around smashing large heavy objects it's kind of silly.

no I'm going of the older comics.

There's also been a few crossover comics where they've met. Anyone read those and know what happened in them?

yah they ended up working together.

Force reacon man. in RL they are the crazyest mutherfuckers around though your right about the duck and cover bit. castel could remember to do a bit more of that

Its 'Force Recon' as opposed to Battalion Recon.
truth be told Batman acts more like a fucking Marine From Force Recon then the Punisher.

Marines in Force Recon, or Battalion Recon are not "crazy motherfuckers" they do none of the simple minded shit Frank Castle does.

And please dont forget the platoon in the MAGTF that has been designated "Force" has a primary role...RECONNAISSANCE....not cowboy Hollywood crap.


Batman beats Frank Castle everyday of the week.

Just like the .308 beats the .30-06, a Marine should know that.

There's also been a few crossover comics where they've met. Anyone read those and know what happened in them?

As I recall, Batman gives the Punisher the old "Don't come back to Gotham" line.

I think Punisher as written by Ennis is visceral and well-written, but there have been a lot of great authors on Batman over the years, as well.

Its 'Force Recon' as opposed to Battalion Recon.
truth be told Batman acts more like a fucking Marine From Force Recon then the Punisher.

Marines in Force Recon, or Battalion Recon are not "crazy motherfuckers" they do none of the simple minded shit Frank Castle does.

And please dont forget the platoon in the MAGTF that has been designated "Force" has a primary role...RECONNAISSANCE....not cowboy Hollywood crap.


Batman beats Frank Castle everyday of the week.

Just like the .308 beats the .30-06, a Marine should know that.

I wanna see you say that to a marine and not get the crap beaten out of you.(I'm talking about the force recon shit you just spouted.) and a 30-06 is a more readly avaliable round then the 7.62x51

Fist I don't care how many martial arts Batman knows cause he dosen't know comand sambo and that means castles got an edge. secondly he is not a master of weapons. this new fangled batman shit pisses me off. "Oh hes a fucken nija!" bull shit. And personaly Id be more scared out by the guy pointing a lightmachinegun at me then the guy in the spandex suit. and never mention that shit justice league ever again. though you have a point about the disguises.
Dude, swearing every other word and attempting to ignore what you dislike will not magically allow you to win an argument.

While it's obvious you like the Punisher due to his status as a former Marine only, I'll give her one more go in listing their various points.
I'll just use Wiki 'cause I am NOT going to crawl through both DC and Marvel's pages.

The Batman
Physically he is at the peak of human ability in dozens of areas, most notably martial arts, acrobatics, strength, and escape artistry. Intellectually he is just as peerless, being at once one of the world's greatest scientists, criminologists, and tacticians, as well as a master of disguise. He is regarded as one of the world's greatest fictional detectives. Lacking superpowers, he often uses cunning and planning to outwit his foes, rather than simply out-fighting them.

Bruce designs or modifies the costumes, equipment, and vehicles he uses as Batman, which are produced by a division of Wayne Industries. Over the years, he has accumulated a large arsenal of specialized gadgets (compare with the later James Bond). The designs of most of Batman's equipment share a common theme of dark coloration with a bat motif. A notable example is Batman's primary vehicle, the Batmobile, often depicted as an imposing black car with large tail fins that suggest a bat's wings; another is his chief throwing weapon, the batarang, a bat-shaped boomerang...

Batman keeps most of his field equipment in a signature piece of apparel, a yellow utility belt. Over the years it has contained a virtually limitless variety of crimefighting tools. Different versions of the belt have these items stored in either pouches or hard cylinders attached evenly around it.

In some of his early appearances, Batman used sidearms (see especially Detective Comics #32, September 1939), but since that time, he has eschewed their use because his parents were murdered by a gunman. Some stories have relaxed this rule to allow Batman to arm his vehicles for purposes of disabling other vehicles or removing inanimate obstacles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman#Skills.2C_resources_and_abilities

The batsuit has been repeatedly updated in order to reflect advances in technology. Originally the costume contained no protective armor, but with the advent of various forms of bulletproof materials like kevlar, the costume has been re-imagined with varying forms of bulletproof protection. The array of devices in the utility belt have also become more complex over time. The simple coiled rope and batarang scaling equipment became a rocket powered grapple gun, the cowl was updated with night-vision lenses and communication equipment, and a device to attract the bats from the Batcave was installed in the heel of one of the boots. The suit has also carried on different occasions a re-breather device, flash and gas grenades, lockpicks, a signalling device for the Batmobile, electronic surveillance equipment, a forensic kit for gathering crime scene evidence, a medical kit, and, in early incarnations, a pistol in a holster. On any occasion where Batman anticipates encountering Superman, he has also carried a kryptonite ring given to him by the Man of Steel as a weapon of last resort...

Batman's utility belt is his most characteristic prop, much like Wonder Woman's Lasso of Truth, or Green Lantern's ring. The exact contents of this belt are not known because Batman usually changes it to suit his needs. His uncanny ability to carry unusually appropriate tools is legendary. Batman's enemies are especially interested in the utility belt as they believe it will give them an advantage over him, but the belt's pockets are locked and only Batman knows how to open them. Occasionally, the utility belt is depicted as having defense mechanisms such as electric shock or stun gas in order to prevent tampering.

Standard Elements of the Utility Belt:


Batarangs
Batman's version of ninja throwing stars/boomerangs.
Bat-Cuffs
Bat shaped handcuffs, resembling Special Forces handcuffs. Using a one-piece design they slide closed and have to be cut off, using a special tool given to the Gotham PD.
Communications device
Often an earbug, but sometimes handheld.
First aid kit
For minor injuries. A larger kit is stored in most vehicles.
Forensic Kit
For impromptu examinations of crime scenes. A larger, more comprehensive one is in the Batmobile.
Gas mask
Protection against air-toxins (i.e. the Scarecrow's Fear Gas). Depending on the writer and/or artist, it may also be incorporated with a rebreather.
Grappling hook
Used to attach a line in order to scale sheer surfaces and/or swing across gaps.
Infrared Goggles
Using infrared technology to see thermal output in low/no-light situations.
Kryptonite ring
Stored in a lead box, for use against Superman.
Laser Torch
A strong minaturized laser used as a cutting tool.
Line gun
Similar to a grappling hook, the line gun uses a strong clamp attached to a line, for scaling surfaces and/or traversing gaps. It can be recovered by releasing the clamp and rewinding the cable.
Lock picks
Micro Camera
Miniature Smoke Grenades
Miniaturized Toolkit
Money
Rebreather
Allows Batman to breathe underwater or in vacuum. Depending on the writer and/or artist, it may also be incorporated with a gas mask.
Remote Control
Used to control the Batmobile and other vehicles.
Flash-bang style grenades
Used to blind and stun enemies
Thermite
An incendiary used to burn through obstacles. In Batman: Year One the thermite charge ignited accidentally and destroyed the utility belt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batsuit

The Batcave serves as Batman's command center, where he monitors all crisis points in Gotham and the world.

The cave's centerpiece is a supercomputer, whose specs are on par with any of those used by leading national security agencies, that permits global surveillance and also connects to a massive information network as well as storing vast amounts of information, both on his foes and his allies. A series of satellite link-ups allows easy access to Batman's information network anywhere in the globe. The smart-systems are protected against unauthorized access, and any attempts to breach this security immediately sends an alert to Batman or Barbara Gordon. Despite the power of Batman's computers, the Justice League Watchtower is known to have more powerful computers (composed of Kyptonian, Thanagarian and Martian technology), and Batman does occasionally use them if he feels his computers are not up to the task.

Additionally, the cave contains state of the art facilities such as: crime lab, various specialized laboratories, mechanized workshops, personal gymnasium, a vast library, parking, docking and hangar space (as appropriate) for his various vehicles as well as separate exits for the various types, trophies of past cases, a large bat colony, and a Justice League teleporter. It also has medical facilities as well as various areas used in training exercises for Batman and his allies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batcave

The Punisher
Frank Castle possesses the normal human strength of a 6'1", 200 lb. man of his age and build who engages in intensive aerobic and weight-lifting exercising. He does not smoke, nor consumes any type of drugs.

The Punisher is a thoroughly seasoned combat veteran of exceptional skills. A former U.S. Marine Captain with a distinguished combat record, Castle underwent sniper and recon training while in the Corps. He also received SEAL (Sea, Air, Land), UDT (Underwater Demolition Team), and LRRP (Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol) training.

Frank is well-versed in the arts of warfare and hand-to-hand combat, his styles of choice being Ninjutsu, Shorin-Ryu, Hwarangdo and Chin Na, as well as unarmed combat training received in the military. He is an exceptional knife fighter who carries up to 3 or 4 different types of edged weapons.

The Punisher's arsenal.Armed solely with conventional weapons and motivated by a fanatical hatred for criminals like those who murdered his family, the Punisher has single-handedly incapacitated up to a dozen well-armed and experienced opponents in a single encounter and escaped uninjured. It is his military training and his attention to detail that allows him to achieve this. The Punisher Armoury series illustrates some of his thinking and training.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher#Abilities_and_training

Machine Guns and Assault Rifles
The M60 7.62mm NATO general purpose machine gun. This gun is by many considered his signature weapon.
The M249 SAW 5.56mm NATO light machine gun.
The M240 7.62mm NATO general purpose machine gun.
The Colt M-16 automatic rifle (both the Vietnam War-era M-16A1 rifle and the present day M-16A2 rifle) in 5.56mm NATO. This gun is also by many considered his signature weapon.
The Colt M-4 Carbine in 5.56mm NATO with the carbine fitted with a tactical rifle scope and a M203 40mm grenade launcher.
The SA80 (L85A1) 5.56mm NATO assault rifle.
The Heckler & Koch G36 5.56mm NATO assault rifle.
The Heckler & Koch G3 7.62mm NATO automatic rifle.
The Steyr AUG 5.56mm NATO assault rifle.
The Galil 5.56mm NATO assault rifle.
The AK-47 7.62x39mm assault rifle.
The AKM 7.62x39mm assault rifle.
The AK-74 5.45x39mm assault rifle.
The RPK-74 5.45x39mm squad automatic weapon.
The AK-101 5.56mm NATO assault rifle.
The AK-103 7.62x39mm assault rifle.
The FN FAL 7.62mm NATO automatic rifle.

Sub-Machine Guns
The Fabrique Nationale P90 5.7mm sub-machine gun.
A Sterling Mark 6 9mm Parabellum, 34-round semi-automatic version converted to automatic fire.
The Heckler & Koch MP5 9mm Parabellum sub-machine gun.
The Heckler & Koch MP5KA4 9mm Parabellum sub-machine gun.
The Uzi 9mm Parabellum sub-machine gun.
The MAC-10 .45ACP sub-machine gun.
The AKSU-74 5.45x39mm sub-machine gun.

Sniper Rifles
The Barrett XM109 in 25x59mm Calibre sniper rifle.
The Barrett M82A1 in .50 BMG (12.7x99mm) Calibre sniper rifle.
The Heckler & Koch PSG-1 7.62mm NATO Sniper Rifle.
The SSG550 Sniper rifle in 5.56x45mm.
The SIG-SG551-P SWAT 5.56x45mm sniper rifle fitted with a sniper scope.
The M14 7.62x51mm NATO sniper rifle fitted with a sniper scope.
The M21 7.62mm NATO semi-automatic sniper rifle fitted with a sniper scope.
The M40 7.62mm NATO bolt action sniper rifle.
A .223 Remington (5.56mm NATO) calibre bolt-action rifle fitted with a sniper scope.
A .270 Winchester calibre bolt action rifle fitted with a sniper scope.
The Winchester Model 70 bolt action rifle fitted with a sniper scope.

Shotguns
The USAS-12 12 gauge fully automatic combat shotgun.
The Franchi SPAS-15 dual-mode 12 gauge shotgun.
The Pancor Jackhammer 12 gauge fully automatic revolver-type shotgun.
The Franchi SPAS-12 dual-mode 12 gauge shotgun.
The Remington Model 870 pump-action shotgun.
The Mossberg M590 pump-action shotgun.
The Ithaca 37 pump-action shotgun.

Handguns
A Springfield Armory-manufactured M-1911A1 .45ACP pistol with a silver compensator (The Punisher is known to carry two of these pistols with the silver compensator (As seen in the 2004 movie)).
A US government-issue M1911A1, .45ACP calibre automatic pistol frame re-chambered for 9mm Parabellum ammunition with a replaceable barrel for conversion to .22LR calibre.
The 9mm Parabellum Browning Llama automatic pistol.
A 4-shot derringer in .22LR calibre.
The Colt Python revolver chambered in .357 Magnum.
The Desert Eagle .50AE Magnum handgun.
The Colt M1911A1 .45ACP handgun.
The GLOCK 17, 22, 23 handgun.
The Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Model 0 .45ACP tactical suppressed handgun.
The Heckler & Koch USP pistol.
The Beretta Model 92FS 9mm Parabellum pistol.
The Beretta Model 93R 9mm Parabellum fully automatic handgun.

Explosives
The FIM-92 Stinger shoulder-mounted missile launcher.
The AT4 shoulder-mounted rocket propelled missile launcher.
The M72 LAW (Light Anti-Armor Weapon) rocket launcher.
An RPG-29 Anti-Tank rocket propelled grenade launcher.
An RPG-7 rocket propelled grenade launcher.
A 40mm revolver 6 shot grenade launcher.
An M-79 Single shot 40mm grenade launcher.
C-4 plastic explosives.
The M18 Claymore mine (Front Toward Enemy).
The M26 fragmentation grenades.
Concussion grenades.
Tear-gas grenades.
Molotov Cocktails.

Knives
The Ballistic knife.
The Tracker knife.
The SOG's TECH Blade.
Gerber Mark II Combat knives.
Ka-Bar U.S. Marine Corps Bowie knives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_the_Punisher

When the Punisher first appeared in 1974, his outfit was a form-fitting black bodysuit with a large white skull on his chest (which, according to the character, draws the atention and the aim of the criminals to his heavy-armored body, instead of his more vulnerable head). Over the years, the Punisher's outfit transformed from the bodysuit in the 1970's and the 1980's to the costume he has worn since The Punisher series was brought back in 2000. Today the Punisher wears a distinctive costume consisting of a black t-shirt with a large white skull emblazoned on his chest, combat gear, high quality body armor , black military pants, black combat boots, and sometimes a long black trenchcoat or leather jacket.

The change in the Punisher's outfit from the form-fitting costume of the 1970's to more contemporary clothing reflects the maturing of the Punisher's appearance, especially in regard to The Punisher being released through Marvel's Marvel Knights and MAX line of comics. Both lines of comics have an audience of readers that are of a more mature age and feature a far more gritty and realistic world than the standard Marvel Comics line.

The Punisher's modern-day outfit may be an overt reference to his anti-hero status and contempt of spandex-clad superheroes. His outfit, along with using a zip-up jacket or trenchcoat, allows him to conceal himself in public. In the 1980's graphic novel The Assassin's Guild, wearing a black trenchcoat over his form-fitting jumpsuit barely let him blend in with the pedestrians on the streets of New York City, with his white gloves and boots still visible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher#Abilities_and_training

The Batman wins.

Dude, swearing every other word and attempting to ignore what you dislike will not magically allow you to win an argument.

While it's obvious you like the Punisher due to his status as a former Marine only, I'll give her one more go in listing their various points.
I'll just use Wiki 'cause I am NOT going to crawl through both DC and Marvel's pages.

The Batman



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman#Skills.2C_resources_and_abilities


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batsuit


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batcave

The Punisher

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher#Abilities_and_training


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_the_Punisher


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher#Abilities_and_training

The Batman wins.

*YAWN* unimpressed

I wanna see you say that to a marine and not get the crap beaten out of you.(I'm talking about the force recon shit you just spouted.) and a 30-06 is a more readly avaliable round then the 7.62x51

What "shit"?

He just suggested that real-life soldiers, even elite ones, might not be inclined to act like comic book characters.

*YAWN* unimpressed

Obstinance is not the same as conviction.

*YAWN* unimpressed
Then obviously you're not here to debate, you're here to throw a temper tantrum. Have fun!

What "shit"?

He just suggested that real-life soldiers, even elite ones, might not be inclined to act like comic book characters.

No it has nothing to do with the comparison between Rl and comic book. I wanna se him say to a Marine Force reacon unit that they are a "recon team." that would be realy funny to see.

No it has nothing to do with the comparison between Rl and comic book. I wanna se him say to a Marine Force reacon unit that they are a "recon team." that would be realy funny to see.

Funny? For a marine to physically attack someone for voicing a different opinion, which is protected by the Constitution, which a marine is sworn to uphold?

Why is stark, violent hypocrisy funny?

Obstinance is not the same as conviction.

wanna bet?

As I recall, Batman gives the Punisher the old "Don't come back to Gotham" line.

I think Punisher as written by Ennis is visceral and well-written, but there have been a lot of great authors on Batman over the years, as well.
This is true, I also think a main difference is that the Punisher is meant to be more realistic and less fantastic than the Batman, which means more limits imposed by the comic universe than Batman has.

Which makes for some excellent story telling at times.

wanna bet?

My high school biology teacher was a marine who served in Korea. He taught me that obstinance is not the same as conviction. If you think they are the same, you have a poor understanding of either.

Funny? For a marine to physically attack someone for voicing a different opinion, which is protected by the Constitution, which a marine is sworn to uphold?

Why is stark, violent hypocrisy funny?

Its a joke shit head. I was just sworn into the marine Cops so I understand the principles we are supposed to uphold. what he said about force recon is like calling the Navy seals only a bunch of underwater demolishionests.

My high school biology teacher was a marine who served in Korea. He taught me that obstinance is not the same as conviction. If you think they are the same, you have a poor understanding of either.


there is a fine line between the two example being I'm not going to obstenant to my DI. thats just stupid. but I can be both at the same time example being this thread.

This is true, I also think a main difference is that the Punisher is meant to be more realistic and less fantastic than the Batman, which means more limits imposed by the comic universe than Batman has.

Which makes for some excellent story telling at times.

Exactly. I enjoy various expressions of fantasy at times (and even the gritty current Punisher still requires a great deal of suspension of disbelief), but there is a lot to be said for heroes that can't save the world.

Have you seen any of the last few trade paperbacks on the Punisher? Slavers and Kitchen Irish were good, but Mother Russia was fantastic story (if far fetched).

Its a joke shit head. I was just sworn into the marine Cops so I understand the principles we are supposed to uphold. what he said about force recon is like calling the Navy seals only a bunch of underwater demolishionests.

Well, I hope your term of service goes well for you, but I also hope you can understand that you aren't reflecting well on the mentality of your organization.

Well, I hope your term of service goes well for you, but I also hope you can understand that you aren't reflecting well on the mentality of your organization.

Try damning the individual not the organization. especialy since I havent shipped to boot yet. that happens next week.

there is a fine line between the two example being I'm not going to obstenant to my DI. thats just stupid. but I can be both at the same time example being this thread.

So, before you said they were the same, now you say there is a fine line between them.

People have taken the time to present you with substantial information for their position, and you were completely unable to respond.

Maybe it can be better explained this way: Obstinance is a poor substitute for a well-posed response, and is in fact preclusive of such.

Exactly. I enjoy various expressions of fantasy at times (and even the gritty current Punisher still requires a great deal of suspension of disbelief), but there is a lot to be said for heroes that can't save the world.

Yup, which may be why I like Batman so much as well, even though he's a superhero, he isn't walking in the same league, powerwise, as most of the rest of the DC universe.

Have you seen any of the last few trade paperbacks on the Punisher? Slavers and Kitchen Irish were good, but Mother Russia was fantastic story (if far fetched).
'Fraid not. I'm sure there's a comic shop somewhere in Japan that carries US comics and related novels, but it isn't around here. I can get you the latest Ah! My Goddess manga though. ;)

Try damning the individual not the organization. especialy since I havent shipped to boot yet. that happens next week.

When you bill yourself as a member of a group, you should simultaneously represent that group well.

And to be precise, I draw attention to the way you (as an individual) are reflecting on your organization.

I hope your basic training goes well and you have a successful period of service.

So, before you said they were the same, now you say there is a fine line between them.

People have taken the time to present you with substantial information for their position, and you were completely unable to respond.

Maybe it can be better explained this way: Obstinance is a poor substitute for a well-posed response, and is in fact preclusive of such.

How the hell am I supposed to argue when its 4too1? and the fact that most people are bias in favor of batman dosen't help my position. ture I could be a little less of an asshole and i could go bring up page after page of info but I'm lazy and I think I'll let the marine corps bet the asshole part out of me.

'Fraid not. I'm sure there's a comic shop somewhere in Japan that carries US comics and related novels, but it isn't around here. I can get you the latest Ah! My Goddess manga though. ;)

You still haven't even sent me my Meiji Almonds, otaku.

You know, there are some interesting parallels between the origin stories of the Punisher and Batman, and the way that translates into their very comparable compulsive characteristics.

See if you can find the 6-issue run where a mobster digs up the Punisher's family and descrates their bodies on public television to draw the Punisher out.

When you bill yourself as a member of a group, you should simultaneously represent that group well.

And to be precise, I draw attention to the way you (as an individual) are reflecting on your organization.

I hope your basic training goes well and you have a successful period of service.

Yeash make hard for some one to hate you why don't ya.... Thanks.

Its late ove here so I'm out of here. Sorry If I was too much of an insuferable asshole.

How the hell am I supposed to argue when its 4too1? and the fact that most people are bias in favor of batman dosen't help my position. ture I could be a little less of an asshole and i could go bring up page after page of info but I'm lazy and I think I'll let the marine corps bet the asshole part out of me.

Well, when you're a Marine, I'm sure you'll be able to do all sorts of things far more difficult than argue comic books at much darker hours.

I certainly hope you can experience the positive changes that you want.

Its late ove here so I'm out of here. Sorry If I was too much of an insuferable asshole.

Get some rest. I'm told that basic training evokes superlative exhaustion. May you be safe, successful, and better in all the ways that you wish.

You still haven't even sent me my Meiji Almonds, otaku.
You never told me where to ship them. ;)

You know, there are some interesting parallels between the origin stories of the Punisher and Batman, and the way that translates into their very comparable compulsive characteristics.
Indeed. One would almost wonder if Bruce Wayne would have turned into the Punisher had he been older and had have the same pre-experiances.

See if you can find the 6-issue run where a mobster digs up the Punisher's family and descrates their bodies on public television to draw the Punisher out.
I'll keep my eyes open the next time I'm stateside.

You never told me where to ship them. ;)

Indeed. One would almost wonder if Bruce Wayne would have turned into the Punisher had he been older and had have the same pre-experiances.

I'll keep my eyes open the next time I'm stateside.

That's an interesting idea, about the backgrounds. Do they do Amalgams anymore, those cross-pub deals where they merge Marvel and DC characters?

When you come back, I'll trade you 4 Punisher trade paperbacks for 144 boxes of Meiji Almonds and one Angelina Jolie made out of legos.

I wanna see you say that to a marine and not get the crap beaten out of you.(I'm talking about the force recon shit you just spouted.) and a 30-06 is a more readly avaliable round then the 7.62x51
Listen kid.

The Winchester .308 can be bought at walmart.

Second, dont act like you know anything about the Marines, you are spouting stupid kid shit.

No Marine(Not even a first week bag of shit) would demean or diminish the role of any of the Marines, Force Recon or Battalion Recon or otherwise by comparing them to some loser who just points and shoots.

Marines are highly skilled THINKERS you jerk off, Force are not gun toting morons they are among the best operators in the world.
I would like to see you pretend to be a Marine in front of me and not get the crap beat of you, take that Semper Fi off your moniker, poser, I bet you are in Coast Guard.
For the record no, you were not just sworn in to the Corp, no Marine would have misspelled "Recon".

So please spare me the internet alter ego.

Sir Percy Blakeney would beat both

punisher, because he nearly beat wolverine, and wolverine could beat batman with one claw. so, punisher is way better...

I would say it would be fairly even, with the edge going to Batman. Wayne is the superior strategist and detective. As such, he's far different from the cited examples of Frank Castle dealing with Spiderman, Hulk, and Wolvie, because while Spidey is honorable and stand-up, and Hulk and Wolvie the human equivalent of big wrecking balls, Batman is a wholly different operator altogether: more cunning and canny than Castle himself, and almost as ruthless. There's only one person I think who could take Castle unawares, and that would be Bruce Wayne. Additionally, you have to factor in psychological motives: Frank Castle likely wouldn't have too much of a problem with Batman, as aside from Batman's goody-two-shoes aversion to killing, they are remarkably similar. By contrast, Batman would see Castle as nothing more than a criminal himself. Sure, he may be taking out criminals, but let's face it: Punisher is borderline psychotic. As such, Batman would deal with him as he would the Joker, which is to say, with very little in the way of mercy.