NationStates Jolt Archive

I've always been a big fan of the Templars, such an fascinating history behind them, but then again the Teutonic Knights had cool helmets :D

I've always been a big fan of the Templars, such an fascinating history behind them, but then again the Teutonic Knights had cool helmets :D


You're OBIUSLY military-oriented, has served time in the military, OR have a military edge.:rolleyes:

Your favorite Military Order
"Over the top"

You're OBIUSLY military-oriented, has served time in the military, OR have a military edge.:rolleyes:
...so what if he is?

I think my favorite military order has to be:

"drop and give me twenty, fatbody!"

You're OBIUSLY military-oriented, has served time in the military, OR have a military edge.:rolleyes:

You make it sound like that's a bad thing... :D

Mamelukes

I know they're not an 'order' per se, but they were a warrior class that were expelled from South Russa/Armenia/Turkey region (in fact I think they were sold) to the Caliph in Cairo by the Mongols.

Then a decade later rose to become rulers of the Caliphate and inflicted the very first defeat on the Mongol in South Syria.

Payback perhaps?

Payback perhaps?

Seems fitting that their name translates to English as "owned".

The Roman Praetorians

[ The guys that formed the most brutal sect of secret police before the Waffen SS?

You like them? ]

NKVD/GPU or Schütstaffel. So effective, so brave, so strong in faith. Can't really make up my mind.

[ The guys that formed the most brutal sect of secret police before the Waffen SS?

You like them? ]

Waffen-SS had nothing to do with secret police. Get your facts straight.

T3h T3ut0ns pwnzrorz!!1!one!!1eleven!

Lol the teutonic knights were really awesome... too bad they don't exist anymore :(.

The Military Order of the Hoboes

"Dismissed"

They were one of the great military orders of the 1930's. Of course they have long since disbanded. But they believed in equality,valor, and sandwiches!

KG

honi soit qui mal y pense

NKVD/GPU or Schütstaffel. So effective, so brave, so strong in faith. Can't really make up my mind.


There was nothing brave about the NKVD.

Waffen-SS had nothing to do with secret police. Get your facts straight.

[ Wikipedia seems to disagree. Perhaps you should get your facts straight? ]

Wikipedia isn't always a reliable source of information either...

[ Wikipedia seems to disagree. Perhaps you should get your facts straight? ]
What's with the things around your text?

There was nothing brave about the NKVD.

Whereas the SS...?

*retreats in shadow*
*eats cookie*

What's with the things around your text?

[ Habit, when I speak "out of character." I'm usually not.

And, Terra-As, no, it is not. I will be the first to admit that. Especially when those articles don't cite their sources, and thus cannot be proved without a bit of research on Google. However, both the Waffen-SS and SS articles do, and everything matches. Not to mention, a general search of Google will turn up the same results.

I apologize for the previous size. I have the same sort of OOC brackets on a more standard forum, where size ten is small. ]

Waffen-SS, NKVD/KGB/heirs and successors (as in the current special operations depts of the FSB) So ferocious and heartless and effective.

But the #1 has to be the Bukkake Brigade. :P

Waffen-SS, NKVD/KGB/heirs and successors (as in the current special operations depts of the FSB) So ferocious and heartless and effective.

But the #1 has to be the Bukkake Brigade. :P


The cheka and all of its progeny are filled with common criminals and backbiting cowards.

[ Wikipedia seems to disagree. Perhaps you should get your facts straight? ]
Neither the SS nor the Waffen-SS were military orders.
They formed a paramilitary force besides the regular Police Forces, the GeStaPo, the SD, and the regular armed forces (Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine).

You should know that you cannot truly rely on Wikipedia. It's a nice place to start your research and to give you an idea but you really cannot rely on the "facts" given there.

As for the OP - I gotta go with the Teutonic Knights.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/ordensritter.gif

(Yes. This guy is standing on my bookshelf :D)

[ @GN: Is that Lego? Or the other one? Seems to be the knockoff/original (whichever it is, I can't recall).

"Under the overall administration of the SS, it was administered by the RSHA and was considered a dual organization of the Sicherheitsdienst and also a suboffice of the Sicherheitspolizei."

Ah, here is where the confusion stems from. My apologies.

EDIT: Dammit. Gotta watch switching formats. -.- (Size problem again) ]

@GN: Is that Lego? Or the other one? Seems to be the knockoff/original (whichever it is, I can't recall).
Nope, it's playmobil(c), the German toy. They're about 3in tall (80mm) whereas in the Danish building blocks system lego they're only half as big.
And they don't have a special edition Teutonic Knight :D

Hashishin. Do they count as "military"?

(sigh) Central Europe is always neglected...

Poland
The Order of the Virtuti Militari
http://www.virtuti.com/order/virtuti.gif

http://www.virtuti.com/order/


Austro-Hungary
The Sacred Military Order of Saint Stephen
http://www.chivalricorders.org/royalty/habsburg/tuscany/images/stefbge.jpg

http://www.chivalricorders.org/royalty/habsburg/tuscany/stephen.htm

Waffen-SS had nothing to do with secret police. Get your facts straight.
Who gives a damn? They were all a bunch of bloody Nazis. Get a grip.

I've always been a big fan of the Templars, such an fascinating history behind them, but then again the Teutonic Knights had cool helmets :D
The Knights Templar were by far the most fascinating military order of which I have ever heard. Seems the DaVinci Code has generated a resurgence of interest in them.

The Knights Templar were by far the most fascinating military order of which I have ever heard. Seems the DaVinci Code has generated a resurgence of interest in them.

I hate the bastard Da Vinci bastard bastard Code bastard damn hell hate the author! It always makes me pour out an unnecessary amount of vitriol into the general area of whoever mentioned it.

Bastard Dan Brown.

I hate the bastard Da Vinci bastard bastard Code bastard damn hell hate the author! It always makes me pour out an unnecessary amount of vitriol into the general area of whoever mentioned it.

Bastard Dan Brown.

What? It was a good book...

What? It was a good book...

To quote Marcus Brigstocke: a crap book for people with crap taste :)

What? It was a good book...
The books he ripped off for his info were better reads.

*Wonders how long it'll take before this becomes a knights vs samurai thread again*

I have always been fond of the Knights Templar myself. Actually got to see one of there strongholds in central Portugal. They had a temple inside that was completely gold. I mean everything inside was gold. Was an amazing thing. Outside of the Vatican I have never seen anything like it.

Hashishin. Do they count as "military"?

I would think so.

It seems from the poll options that the OP might have intended "religious military orders". In which case I would say: none.

But if I could choose any military society, I would go with:

Far Dareis Mai, the Maidens of the Spear.

The teenage mutant ninja turtle guys.

*Wonders how long it'll take before this becomes a knights vs samurai thread again*


Looks like it might be headed in a Knights vs Nazis kinda direction.

Looks like it might be headed in a Knights vs Nazis kinda direction.
This is at least new. :cool:

Delta Force. the uber counter terrorism unit. they r teh pwn.
:sniper:
:mp5:

Hmmm I'd say " fall out " followed by " at ease " for second place.

"About, face!"

Delta Force. the uber counter terrorism unit. they r teh pwn.
:sniper:
:mp5:

They aren't a military order, and they're pathetic compared to the SAS.

I like the Theban Sacred Band. I don't know much about them, but I like them. Gave the Spartans quite a beating, even when everyone about them was running.

*Wonders how long it'll take before this becomes a knights vs samurai thread again*

Nothing to do with fact my PC uses a "Samurai" gaming case with a Warhammer Brettonian Grail Knight figure on top of it.

You could call the Samurai a Military order except they didn't have a central leader like the GrandMasters of Teutonic Order.

Seems fitting that their name translates to English as "owned".


thats because they were a slave class until they overthrew the Ayyubids

Who gives a damn? They were all a bunch of bloody Nazis. Get a grip.

the Waffen-SS also had belgian, french, british, poles, austrians,and even at one point were stuck with an indian brigade that was never used

It seems from the poll options that the OP might have intended "religious military orders". In which case I would say: none.

But if I could choose any military society, I would go with:

Far Dareis Mai, the Maidens of the Spear.

Yay! Aiel are teh pwn. Or Star Wars Imperial Royal Guards.
If we're going RL here, then the Roman Scholae Palatinae (I think Praetorians were generally crap guards, since they ended up assassinating so many emperors...) or maybe US Rangers.

The Knights of Rhodes for teh win!

SAS. Everybody else's special forces copy the SAS!

the Order of St Lazarus

Wow. Nobody's mentioned the Byzantine Klibanophoroi. For almost a thousand years, these heavily-armored cavalrymen were the dominant force of the world.

SAS. Everybody else's special forces copy the SAS!

Is it really a "military order"? I'm bit confused with the whole term. Anyways, Russian Spetznaz Team Alpha would walk over those Brits too busy in sipping their discusting, warm beers (drank one of those in Saturday... EWWWWW!) to fight back.

NKVD/GPU or Schütstaffel. So effective, so brave, so strong in faith. Can't really make up my mind.

That was meant to be sarcasm. I don't see anything cool in organizations fanatically devoted to violence.

Wow. Nobody's mentioned the Byzantine Klibanophoroi. For almost a thousand years, these heavily-armored cavalrymen were the dominant force of the world.

Cataphracts? They weren't a special "Order", as far as I know. And dunno about that "thousand years" neither... they never met Tzingis-Khan in the open.

Cataphracts? They weren't a special "Order", as far as I know. And dunno about that "thousand years" neither... they never met Tzingis-Khan in the open.

Thinking I was talking about Kataphractoi shows how little you know about the Byzantine military...

Thinking I was talking about Kataphractoi shows how little you know about the Byzantine military...

Knowing Cataphracts is more than you would hope of most of the people, I'd say. :) Besides they, too, were heavily armoured cavalry and quite a formidable part of Byzantine military force, no? So the mistake of mine was rather understandable, one could perhaps say.
Even though I must admit it is true my knowledge about the "Rome of the East" isn't as good as it should be. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

Is it really a "military order"? I'm bit confused with the whole term. Anyways, Russian Spetznaz Team Alpha would walk over those Brits too busy in sipping their discusting, warm beers (drank one of those in Saturday... EWWWWW!) to fight back.

Spetznatz? They'd be too vodka'ed up to shoot/knife/punch/vomit straight.

Knowing Cataphracts is more than you would hope of most of the people, I'd say. :) Besides they, too, were heavily armoured cavalry and quite a formidable part of Byzantine military force, no? So the mistake of mine was rather understandable, one could perhaps say.
Even though I must admit it is true my knowledge about the "Rome of the East" isn't as good as it should be. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

The Kataphractoi were armed with various weapons, usually swords and bows. They were lightly armored (in comparison to Klibanophoroi) and were usually larger in number. Their uniforms were very colorful, in stark contrast to the Knights of Medieval Europe.

The Klibanophoroi were the elite cavalry corps of the Eastern Roman Empire, being of very heavy encumberance, usually wielding longspears and an optional round shield. They wore a very heavy combination of ring, scale, and chainmail armor, with a chainmail coif and scale coverings for the head. Over the armor, they wore heavy, quilted padding to retard arrows (this worked well until the Bodkin arrowhead came into being). Divisions of Klibanophoroi usually consisted of 100 to 200 cavalrymen; very little of them were needed to effectively sweep a much larger force.

The fall of the Byzantine empire itself can almost be solely attributed to the loss of the Klibanophoroi back in the late 900's. I've since forgotten which emperor was responsible, but he dropped the Klibanophoroi in favor of even lighter Kataphractoi and foot soldiers (Skutatoi).

The Kataphractoi were armed with various weapons, usually swords and bows. They were lightly armored (in comparison to Klibanophoroi) and were usually larger in number. Their uniforms were very colorful, in stark contrast to the Knights of Medieval Europe.


This entirely depends - the ancient kataphraktoi, used by the Parthians and Romans later, was the most heavily armoured cavalry around, and used a spear/bow.

To assume that the name wouldn't drastically change is a fair assumption.

This entirely depends - the ancient kataphraktoi, used by the Parthians and Romans later, was the most heavily armoured cavalry around, and used a spear/bow.

To assume that the name wouldn't drastically change is a fair assumption.

The heavy cavalry of Byzantium were Klibanophoroi. The lighter ones were Kataphractoi.

And it was the Clibanarii (Clibanarius) the Romans had as their heavy cavalry. It was their successful emulation (and surpassing) of the heavy Parthian "Cataphract".

Ok, thank you for this. About the Catapharcts I must say one thing though - in several "historically accurate" games, such as Rome: Total War (as well as Medieval: TW) and even Age of Empires II they were described as heavy cavalry. Also,

Cataphract
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The word cataphract (Greek κατάφρακτος) was what Greek- and later Latin-speaking peoples used to describe heavy cavalry. Historically the cataphract was a heavily-armed and -armoured cavalryman who saw action from the earliest days of Antiquity up through the High Middle Ages.

And my favourite source of information, C.Crimberg's Kansojen historia (History of Peoples), 1952, says;
"...the most important factor in this battle was, like in most of the battles Leo fought during these years, his skillful use of his heavy knights, Kataphraktoi."

Ok, thank you for this. About the Catapharcts I must say one thing though - in several "historically accurate" games, such as Rome: Total War (as well as Medieval: TW) and even Age of Empires II they were described as heavy cavalry. Also,

Cataphract
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The word cataphract (Greek κατάφρακτος) was what Greek- and later Latin-speaking peoples used to describe heavy cavalry. Historically the cataphract was a heavily-armed and -armoured cavalryman who saw action from the earliest days of Antiquity up through the High Middle Ages.

And my favourite source of information, C.Crimberg's Kansojen historia (History of Peoples), 1952, says;
"...the most important factor in this battle was, like in most of the battles Leo fought during these years, his skillful use of his heavy knights, Kataphraktoi."


Yeah, the Kataphractoi were heavy cavalry. But they were significantly lighter than Klibanophoroi, which has been my point.

The Klibanophoroi, even though they were almost completely phased out by the 1100's, were only surpassed in the middle of the 15th century due to platemail armor used by Western European Knights.


Edit: Sorry about this, but I haven't read about the Byzantine cavalry in almost a year. It seems that the Klibanophoroi appeared in the 900's, and were gradually phased out after the battle of Manzikert. They reached their height in the 10th to 11th centuries under emperor Basilios.

Oh, ok. I misread it then. Anyways, I still stick with my claim that those überheavy Klibanophoroi would have been beaten by Mongolian riders. Byzantine army, one of the best military forces of it's time, never met others that could possibly claim that title - their main enemies were Persians, Slavic tribes, Goths of Italy and such. Am I right?

The heavy cavalry of Byzantium were Klibanophoroi. The lighter ones were Kataphractoi.

And it was the Clibanarii (Clibanarius) the Romans had as their heavy cavalry. It was their successful emulation (and surpassing) of the heavy Parthian "Cataphract".


That wasn't my point, as Byzantine history (except for some of the Belisarian campaigns) is not my strong point. it was that you cannot say that it is truly a work of ignorance, as kataphraktoi were the heaviest cavalry around -and though they were succeeded some time later by the klibanophoroi, who were a rebirth of the kataphraktoi. ( "An experimental type of cataphract was brought to the fore in the 10th and 11th centuries known as the klibanaphoros — named after the clibanarius and a throwback to the super-heavy cavalry of earlier days.")

Also, this note that this statement shows the Romans called their heavy cavalry cataphracts. "Contemporary depictions however imply that they were not as completely armoured as earlier Roman and Sassanid types — horse armour is noticeably absent.Contemporary depictions however imply that they were not as completely armoured as earlier Roman and Sassanid types — horse armour is noticeably absent."


So again, the assumption that the name kataphrakoi would eventually come to mean a form of lighter cavalry and that klibanophoroi would come to mean something akin to the heavier kataphraktoi of earlier times is not entirely unreasonable.

The Knights Templar were by far the most fascinating military order of which I have ever heard. Seems the DaVinci Code has generated a resurgence of interest in them.
Bah, their real-life dealings are far more interesting then made-up hoo-ha :D

(sigh) Central Europe is always neglected...

Well, one can only include so many options so I went for the well-known ones, and the Teutonic Knights did kinda fight in that general area :D

Ahem, the obligatory:
ZOMG, teh t3mplaz r leik totally teh illuminatia coz dan brown sed so and i love him I WANT YOUR BABIZ DANZORZ!!1!111elevetyone!

"Fall out."

I like the Theban Sacred Band. I don't know much about them, but I like them. Gave the Spartans quite a beating, even when everyone about them was running.
Yes, those guys were awesome (in the real sense of the word) soldiers as they simply refused to give up and fought till the last man standing died. Insane tactic, but you knew what you were in for - on both sides, that is.

Well, one can only include so many options so I went for the well-known ones, and the Teutonic Knights did kinda fight in that general area :D

The Sacred Order of St. Stephen isn't well known??

Whoa. Next you're going to tell me no one here celebrates Walpurgis Night or practices sabre drill... :(

I must inform his Majesty, Franz Josef Otto Robert Maria Anton Karl Max Heinrich Sixtus Xavier Felix René Ludwig Gaetano Pius Ignazius von Habsburg-Lothringen at once! The youth are slacking! If we are ever to restore the Monarchy and end the bloodshed in the Balkans, we must bring back the old ways!
(Markreich walks away, starts mumbling about quarterings and updating Crown Prince Rudolf manuals for the Royal and Imperial Armies.)

http://www.rollintl.com/roll/flag0ah1867.gif

(If you're actually interested in this for some reason: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Habsburg)

My discharge orders.:D

I really find the history to the Knights Templar to be quite interesting. Not to mention, Baphamut looks awsome, and so does the Knights Templar cross.

And althought I don't know if you would consider it a military order, the Red Army Faction was DEFINETLY militant, and I like them.

"Half-right, face!"

"Front leaning rest position, move!"

"In cadence, exercise!"

"1, 2, 3...."


Oh wait, that's my LEAST favorite military order.

My favorite would be the Sikh Khalsa of Punjab India. They defeated the Moghul army and the Afghan Abdali army and protected dharma in a period of invasions and oppression.

From http://www.sikhs.org/khalsa.htm
The word "Khalsa" means "pure". Khalsa's are Sikhs which have undergone the sacred Amrit Ceremony initiated by the 10th Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh. The Khalsa order was initially created on Baisakhi Day March 30 1699, with Guru Gobind Singh baptizing 5 Sikhs and then in turn asking the five Khalsa's to baptize him. Following this the Guru personally baptized thousands of men and women into the Khalsa order. The Khalsa baptism ceremony is undertaken as part of ones own personal spiritual evolution when the initiate is ready to fully live up to the high expectations of Guru Gobind Singh. All Sikhs are expected to be Khalsa or be working towards that objective.

The actual formation of the initial Khalsa is a very interesting one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/316818.stm

The story of the Khalsa begins with the martyrdom in Delhi of Guru Teg Bahadur, the 9th Guru of the Sikhs.

The Guru, who disagreed with many aspects of Hindu teachings, was publicly beheaded by the Mughal rulers for trying to protect the Hindu community's right to freedom of worship. The Mughal emperor then challenged the Sikhs, who at the time could not be distinguished from other Indians, to claim their master's body. But in the event no one came forward.

The Guru's young son Gobind now became Guru, and, as he grew into manhood, he constantly stressed that Sikhs should always be ready to stand up for their beliefs, however difficult the circumstances.

Then he decided to put the community to the test.

The beloved five

It was the spring festival of Vaisakhi 1699 and everyone was out in the open, celebrating the gathering of the winter harvest.


Guru Gobind Singh, sword in hand, emerged from a tent and asked that anyone willing to give his life for his faith should come forward. A young Sikh accompanied the Guru into a tent. To everyone's dismay the Guru reappeared alone, his sword covered with blood, and asked for a second volunteer.

A second Sikh stepped forward and again the Guru emerged alone, his sword again apparently covered in blood. In the same way a third, fourth and fifth volunteer accompanied the Guru into the tent.


The crowd became alarmed. Many believed that the Guru had killed the five Sikhs, but then to everyone's joy, he came out of the tent again, this time followed by all five Sikhs who were clearly alive and well and dressed in turbans and other symbols that have since become symbols of Sikh identity.

He called the five Sikhs the Panj Piare - the beloved five.

"Half-right, face!"

"Front leaning rest position, move!"

"In cadence, exercise!"

"1, 2, 3...."


Oh wait, that's my LEAST favorite military order.

Humorous, but lets not push it, OK?:D

The order of Santiago of course, they played a part in liberating parts of Spain from Moorish rule. This cursade known better as the Reconquista was a success, which cannot be said of the crusades to the holy lands.