NationStates Jolt Archive


so is it benevolent? fascisme

Allers
07-05-2006, 20:40
"Say “fascism” to anyone you meet, and you will conjure images of coal-scuttle helmets, of Nazi boot-heels clicking in terrible unison down Berlin streets during dark days that only a few remaining among the living remember. Each day, members of the generation that heard those heels for themselves go into the ground, taking with them whispered words of warning. I saw it for myself, they whisper before they pass. See this tattooed number? See this scar? It happened. It was real.

Say “fascism” to anyone you meet, and you will be greeted with the boilerplate response of the blithely overconfident: such a thing cannot happen here. This is the United States of America, land of the free and home of the brave. Ours is a nation of laws, of checks and balances, of righteousness and decency. Our laws and traditions stand as a bulwark against the rise of totalitarian madness. It cannot happen here. Thus we are indoctrinated into the school of our own assumed greatness.

“We must disenthrall ourselves,” said Abraham Lincoln, and so we must, because it can happen here. It is already happening. All the parroted recitations of grade school civics cannot erase the fact that a new order is rising. Call it “secret fascism” or “smiley-faced fascism.” Call it a quiet dictatorship. Call it what you like, but it is here with us in America today, and it is growing.

To be sure, there are no coal-scuttle helmets lined in ranks down our broad avenues, no Tonton Macoute savaging dissidents, no Khmer Rouge slaughtering intellectuals and herding citizens from cities to die by the millions on roads littered with skulls. The core strength of our new fascism is that it speaks softly. It does not present itself in such an obvious way that those who subsist on the dogmas of our greatness can point and say there, there it is, I see it.

This new fascism is not fed only by lies, though to be sure the lies are there in preposterous abundance. This new fascism is fed by myths, our myths, the myths by which we rock ourselves to sleep. This new fascism is in truth an elemental fascism, reborn today by a confluence of events; the diligent work of the few, in combination with the passivity of the many, have brought forth this new order.

The writer Umberto Eco, in a 1995 essay titled “Ur-Fascism,” delineated several core elements that have existed in one form or another in every fascist state in history: “Parliamentary democracy is by definition rotten, because it does not represent the voice of the people, which is that of the sublime leader. Doctrine outstrips reason, and science is always suspect. The national identity is provided by the nation’s enemies. Argument is tantamount to treason. Perpetually at war, the state must govern with the instruments of fear. Citizens do not act; they play the supporting role of ‘the people’ in the grand opera that is the state.”

Take these one at a time.

“Parliamentary democracy is by definition rotten, because it does not represent the voice of the people, which is that of the sublime leader.”

George W. Bush has all but gelded Congress in recent months, attaching so-called “signing statements” to a variety of laws, which state that the president may act beyond the laws whenever he so chooses. The United States, fashioned as a republic, has as its voice the congressional body. This is all but finished. To cement his victory over the parliamentary system, Bush has put forth one Samuel Alito for the Supreme Court, a man who believes in the ultimate power of the one leader over the many. The gelded congress does not appear able to keep this man from the high court, thus rendering the balancing branches of government into a satellite system of the Executive.

“Doctrine outstrips reason, and science is always suspect.”

The supremacy of religious fundamentalism within and without government carries this banner before all others. What is reason in the face of the zealot’s faith? Science has become a watered-down vessel for Intelligent Design, and the incontrovertible truths of empirical data are slapped aside. Spencer Tracy, in the film “Inherit the Wind,” bellows the warning here: “Fanaticism and ignorance is forever busy, and needs feeding. And soon, your Honor, with banners flying and with drums beating we’ll be marching backward, backward, through the glorious ages of that sixteenth century, when bigots burned the man who dared to bring enlightenment and intelligence to the human mind.”

“The national identity is provided by the nation’s enemies.”

This has been with us for generations now. Our nation defined ourselves through a comparison to the Nazis, to the Imperial Japanese, and then through decades of comparison to Communism. Terrorism has supplanted all of these, hammered into place on a Tuesday in September by the actions of madmen. We are not them, all is justified in the struggle against them, and so we are defined.

“Argument is tantamount to treason.”

All one need do to see this in action is spend some hours with the Fox News channel. Freedom fries. Why do you hate America? You are with us or you are with the terrorists. Watch what you say.

“Perpetually at war, the state must govern with the instruments of fear.”

The manipulation of this population by fear has been ham-fisted, to be sure, but has also been cruelly effective. We do not want the evidence to be a mushroom cloud. Weapons of mass destruction and al Qaeda in Iraq. Nuclear designs in Iran. Plastic sheeting and duct tape. Orange alert. Argument becomes tantamount to treason simply because everyone has been made to feel fear at all times. A frightened populace is easily governed, and governs itself; this lesson was well-learned in the duck-and-cover days of the Cold War. Those lessons have been masterfully applied once again. Today, the citizenry polices itself, and the herd moves as one body. Even the surveillance of innocent citizens by the state is brushed off as a necessary evil. Remember: you are being watched.

“Citizens do not act; they play the supporting role of ‘the people’ in the grand opera that is the state.”

Once, we lived by the glorious simplicity of the vote. Casting a ballot was the single most patriotic duty a citizen could perform, an affirmation of all we held dear and true. Today, we live in the nation of the vanishing voter. Power has been so far removed from the people by those with money and influence that most see voting as a waste of time. Add to this the growing control of the implements of voting and vote-counting by partisan corporations, and the rule of We the People is left in ashes.

We must disenthrall ourselves from the idea that our institutions, our traditions, the barriers that protect us from absolute and authoritarian powers, cannot be broken down. They are being dismantled a brick at a time. The separation of powers has already been annihilated. It is a whispered fascism, not yet marching down your street or pounding upon your door in the dead of night. But it is here, and it is laying deep roots. We must listen beyond the whispered fascism of today to the shouted fascism of tomorrow. We must look beyond the lies and the myths, beyond the dogmas by which we sleep."

They are afraid of the old for their memory,
They are afraid of the young for their innocence
They afraid of the graves of their victims in faraway places
They are afraid of history. They are afraid of freedom.
They are afraid of truth. They are afraid of democracy.
So why the hell are we afraid of them? ... For they are afraid of us
Skinny87
07-05-2006, 20:43
"Science has become a watered-down vessel for Intelligent Design"? What the hell are you smoking, man? The two are entirely different, and bitterly opposed. ID just pretends to be science, but actually, you know...isn't.
Pintsize
07-05-2006, 20:53
I think thats part of his point. "Scientists", supported by large and wealthy groups such as "faith-based" organisations and energy corporations, contradict empirical fact and scientific methodology in favour of doctrine and profit. One of the most successful and well-known opposition to ID is the Flying Spaghetti Monster Movement. Huh?
Ifreann
07-05-2006, 21:11
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1328/puppywuppykins0ig.png
Barbaric Tribes
07-05-2006, 21:22
Yeah and what are you. (ie. "we" because i agree with you 100%) going to do about it? wanna fight back? good, so do I, infact me and several other people I know have been preparing to for years, waiting for the police state to imerge from the shadows so we can fight back, contact me. Our numbers are growing, along with our strength. I'm not talking about pussy little protests and demonstrations against to much servielance either. I'm talking about full blown civil war. Its the only unfortunate way to stop it. contact me.
Allers
08-05-2006, 17:50
Yeah and what are you. (ie. "we" because i agree with you 100%) going to do about it? wanna fight back? good, so do I, infact me and several other people I know have been preparing to for years, waiting for the police state to imerge from the shadows so we can fight back, contact me. Our numbers are growing, along with our strength. I'm not talking about pussy little protests and demonstrations against to much servielance either. I'm talking about full blown civil war. Its the only unfortunate way to stop it. contact me.
i know it is going to be the bloodiest time,in history....
people are going to choose,The scary part of it,is that they(we) are not use to,so be ready for a lot of error...
PS: the world is small,and underground resistance is growing

contact me.
well,that may be,but not on the net.;)
Pintsize
08-05-2006, 18:04
In the meantime, try to convert to your view as many as possible. Prepare people for the possibility. The less killing, the better. Killing must ALWAYS be the last resort. But dropping out has been tried, involvement with the system... I hate it, I despise violence, but if it is the only option... Its so awful...
Torgovania
08-05-2006, 18:07
I also believe the United States has turned into a fascist state. Another example of those in charge undermining democracy: NAFTA and other free trade agreements put rules in place for us that our elected government officials cannot overthrow. For example if your state doesn't want to import some product from Canada or Mexico, because of the conditions under it was made or its environmental effects, the Federal Government can fine you for not supporting NAFTA.

Also, our huge national debt is borrowed from corporate banks who in turn decide alot of our policy. If an elected leader went against what they want him to do, they would just quit letting us borrow money and our economy would collapse. The US organizes this policy worldwide via IMF and World Bank, fascist bodies that are trying to control the world and have zero accountability. So policies have been put in place that even if we had a decent leader elected, there would be little he could actually do to bring more democracy.

At least this is how I understand the current situation.
Hydesland
08-05-2006, 18:13
Yeah and what are you. (ie. "we" because i agree with you 100%) going to do about it? wanna fight back? good, so do I, infact me and several other people I know have been preparing to for years, waiting for the police state to imerge from the shadows so we can fight back, contact me. Our numbers are growing, along with our strength. I'm not talking about pussy little protests and demonstrations against to much servielance either. I'm talking about full blown civil war. Its the only unfortunate way to stop it. contact me.

And what (if anything) do you hope to achieve out of this pointless civil war.
Allers
08-05-2006, 18:27
And what (if anything) do you hope to achieve out of this pointless civil war.
is better than pointeless war?
Trytonia
08-05-2006, 18:27
In the meantime, try to convert to your view as many as possible. Prepare people for the possibility. The less killing, the better. Killing must ALWAYS be the last resort. But dropping out has been tried, involvement with the system... I hate it, I despise violence, but if it is the only option... Its so awful...


Yup... Deplore violence... Just let them take over, sign in your guns. Hand them over to the police.

IF thier is a facist group going to take over the country the first thing they will do is take away the guns to stifle the peoples voice. The pen is not mightier than the gun in a takeover of the goverment.

The first thing the NAZIS did WAS TAKE AWAY THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS OF THE PEOPLE.

If you fear a facist state vote for the party that wants THE PEOPLE NOT JUST THE GOVERMENT to RETAIN THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. Lets see the goverment try to go facist with 2 million NRA and 10 million other gun owners with assult rifles.

Guess i should say... To ensure the goverment doesnt go facist vote CONSERVATIVE.
Madnestan
08-05-2006, 18:36
Allers, that was one of the best posts I have seen in NS General. Congraz.

Barbaric Tribes, when that day comes, the day that welcomes Open Fascism, I'll come there too. I live in Europe, but what happens in there will happen in here at some point, so tight are our two continents tied together. I've always wanted to see another Spanish Civil War in Western World. Fascism coming out of its closet, and the opposite of it - leftist/libertanian youth - from all over the world moving as one to stop it.
Madnestan
08-05-2006, 18:39
Yup... Deplore violence... Just let them take over, sign in your guns. Hand them over to the police.

IF thier is a facist group going to take over the country the first thing they will do is take away the guns to stifle the peoples voice. The pen is not mightier than the gun in a takeover of the goverment.

The first thing the NAZIS did WAS TAKE AWAY THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS OF THE PEOPLE.

If you fear a facist state vote for the party that wants THE PEOPLE NOT JUST THE GOVERMENT to RETAIN THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. Lets see the goverment try to go facist with 2 million NRA and 10 million other gun owners with assult rifles.

Guess i should say... To ensure the goverment doesnt go facist vote CONSERVATIVE.

Those NRA members and "10 million other gun owners" are propably those who will be the strongest supporting group of this fascist regime. They are already. The most nationalist, the most racist, the most rightist people. Stupid White Men.
Pintsize
08-05-2006, 18:39
What if the NRA are the street army? The Brownshirts? The Army didn't give the Nazi's power, or the Italian Fascists...
Quagmus
08-05-2006, 18:53
Allers, that was one of the best posts I have seen in NS General. Congraz.
......
Indeed :)
Andaluciae
08-05-2006, 18:57
Christ almighty...

I invoke Godwin's Law.
Trytonia
08-05-2006, 19:00
What if the NRA are the street army? The Brownshirts? The Army didn't give the Nazi's power, or the Italian Fascists...


then you liberals need to buy some guns lol What can I say... Your allowing them to take over
Trytonia
08-05-2006, 19:04
Those NRA members and "10 million other gun owners" are propably those who will be the strongest supporting group of this fascist regime. They are already. The most nationalist, the most racist, the most rightist people. Stupid White Men.

\
And yet people like you probably vote for people who want the goverment to controll the money... The ultimate decider of power. conservatives and liberals today are both Geopolitical Liberal idealogies. We are not ring because we do not believe the goverment should control the money like the NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY..... Hmmm socialism... really right wing....
Allers
08-05-2006, 19:20
\
And yet people like you probably vote for people who want the goverment to controll the money... The ultimate decider of power. conservatives and liberals today are both Geopolitical Liberal idealogies. We are not ring because we do not believe the goverment should control the money like the NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY..... Hmmm socialism... really right wing....
and if nobody represent you,what then?
Trytonia
08-05-2006, 19:23
and if nobody represent you,what then?


you run for office or get someone who agrees with you to do so... Its a democracy for crying out loud.
Allers
08-05-2006, 19:26
you run for office or get someone who agrees with you to do so... Its a democracy for crying out loud.
do you know a lot of them,who can play the millions dollars game?
Andaluciae
08-05-2006, 19:32
do you know a lot of them,who can play the millions dollars game?
Actually I do. I know some people with downright amazing charisma and superb qualifications who could literally up and run with the "big dogs" of politics, and they're only college students.
Allers
08-05-2006, 19:36
Christ almighty...

I invoke Godwin's Law.

huh?
Andaluciae
08-05-2006, 19:42
huh?
When making an emotional political appeal in which you refer to the opposing viewpoint as Nazionalsozialisten, Fascists and (by extension) Soviet Communists you invalidate your argument. If the situation is clear that we are indeed dealing with any of the above, then Godwin's Law does not necessarily come into effect. But in most instances, including this one, Godwin's law does take effect.
Allers
08-05-2006, 19:47
When making an emotional political appeal in which you refer to the opposing viewpoint as Nazionalsozialisten, Fascists and (by extension) Soviet Communists you invalidate your argument. If the situation is clear that we are indeed dealing with any of the above, then Godwin's Law does not necessarily come into effect. But in most instances, including this one, Godwin's law does take effect.

so?
Andaluciae
08-05-2006, 19:51
so?
I'm saying that the claim that te US is fascist is not only an emotionally loaded claim, but it's flawed. For a more realistic and reasonable discussion, we should be talking about the limitations on civil liberties, the chilling effect and other things with a more serious attitude than shouting out:

"f4S(I57!!!!!11!!11!!!!!"
Allers
08-05-2006, 19:59
I'm saying that the claim that te US is fascist is not only an emotionally loaded claim, but it's flawed. For a more realistic and reasonable discussion, we should be talking about the limitations on civil liberties, the chilling effect and other things with a more serious attitude than shouting out:

"f4S(I57!!!!!11!!11!!!!!"
hey!!!!!!
SO SIMPLE IS THAT.SO WAT IS YOUR REALISTIC POINT OF VIEUW?
OFF TOPIC

we should be talking about the limitations on civil liberties, the chilling effect and other things with a more serious attitude than shouting out:
you are welcome

We must disenthrall ourselves from the idea that our institutions, our traditions, the barriers that protect us from absolute and authoritarian powers, cannot be broken down. They are being dismantled a brick at a time. The separation of powers has already been annihilated. It is a whispered fascism, not yet marching down your street or pounding upon your door in the dead of night. But it is here, and it is laying deep roots. We must listen beyond the whispered fascism of today to the shouted fascism of tomorrow. We must look beyond the lies and the myths, beyond the dogmas by which we sleep.