NationStates Jolt Archive

Hey guys,
There was this girl I was and probably still madly in love with and she's an utter pushover. She's part of a corrupt batist school which twists the gospel and makes pain and unquestionable obediance sound good. As a result she doesn't seem to have a will of her own anymore, She's been completely brainwashed. She lets the cruel hypocritical Bible click there bully her in many perverse ways and she's ok with it. And another thing is the Bible click represents the school so anyone could get sent to the office for no reason but that clicks above the law there.How can I save her? I have a few friends who were close to her before she was zombified and they want to help to. So far the plan we have is to cause dissension in the click so that the click loses its power and the school loses its popularity and influence. I really need more advice.

Hey guys,
There was this girl I was and probably still madly in love with and she's an utter pushover. She's part of a corrupt batist school which twists the gospel and makes pain and unquestionable obediance sound good. As a result she doesn't seem to have a will of her own anymore, She's been completely brainwashed. She lets the cruel hypocritical Bible click there bully her in many perverse ways and she's ok with it. And another thing is the Bible click represents the school so anyone could get sent to the office for no reason but that clicks above the law there.How can I save her? I have a few friends who were close to her before she was zombified and they want to help to. So far the plan we have is to cause dissension in the click so that the click loses its power and the school loses its popularity and influence. I really need more advice.

This might not be the best place for help, old chum. Have you tried speaking to her parents? Or her? Importantly, what are her views on it? Does she like, not like it, tolerates it for the parents?

-snip-.


Did someone say zombie? -pulls out samarai sword- Ill kill her, my friend!


But seriously, I would tell her your concern, and if all else fails go down there and kick some baptist ass! Damn baptists..(im a baptist, technically)

What school is she at?

I tried talking to her, I know her parents are part of it, she goes to Grace Academy MArysville. Her parents are part of the reason the church is corrupt. They are the kind of peopl who see other people including family as robots or pets that are meant to follow commands. ITS SICK!!!! And I told her time and again about my concerns and shes ben brainwashed so bad that she instinciveley told her friends and they labelled me "stalker" and since its a baptist school I got kicked out.

It's 'clique'.

what does that mean?

I tried talking to her, I know her parents are part of it, she goes to Grace Academy MArysville. Her parents are part of the reason the church is corrupt. They are the kind of peopl who see other people including family as robots or pets that are meant to follow commands. ITS SICK!!!! And I told her time and again about my concerns and shes ben brainwashed so bad that she instinciveley told her friends and they labelled me "stalker" and since its a baptist school I got kicked out.

Dude....that really isn't surprising. Telling fundamentalists that they are fundamentalists really is stupid. Look, if she doiesn't like it, tell her to bear with it, she can forget it after it ends. If she truly likes it....then you're stuffed, mate. You can't do anything.

what does that mean?

Click = Clique

what does that mean?
I presume you meant clique when you said click. If not I apologise.

Well what about people who are brainwashed that get out of it? I mean her consioucness probably likes it but I sense that deep down she hates it.

They put me through alot of pain and plus they have the woman I love. I must take away their power somehow!!!! :sniper:

Well what about people who are brainwashed that get out of it? I mean her consioucness probably likes it but I sense that deep down she hates it.

Sense? Has she said exclusively that she hates it? Or is that your wish?

The mission of the school is clear: Grace Academy impacts students by moving them toward knowledge and wisdom:
thats nothing bad...

educating from a biblical worldview for this life;
again...nothing to bad.

evangelizing and equipping for eternal life

WTF???? equipping for eternal life...what exactly is it that you equip for eternal life....that makes no sense

She acts like she likes it sometimes but that layer of deciet peels away and I see her with a look of anguish on her face as they bully her in the group. As soon as I confront her and tell her that they shouldn't do that she gets mad and says "they were only joking"

Your friend is doomed.

...but don't worry, once those people are exposed to the world after school, they usually emerge from that cucoon that keeps them from truly expressing themselves, get into drugs, steal stuff, give head to randoms that they meet at clubs etc. etc. There's hope for her yet.

She acts like she likes it sometimes but that layer of deciet peels away and I see her with a look of anguish on her face as they bully her in the group. As soon as I confront her and tell her that they shouldn't do that she gets mad and says "they were only joking"

You can't do anything mate. Just tell her you'll be there for her if she needs to talk asnd such, and then take a hands-off approach. Doing this is just driving her further into their clutches. She doesn't like it, so she'll come out of it okay.

Curriculum

The following publishers are among those used for curriculum at Grace:
Association of Christian Schools International
Bob Jones University
A Beka
Rod and Staff
Houghton Mifflin

That explains a lot. ;)

those missions statements are hidden lies.
Translation: 1) You must be wise in OUR eyes and doas we tell you
2) We will educate you on how WE see the Bible and how it fits OUR ideas and not other cultists
3) Equiping for eternal life means you have to stay the way they make you forever.

They put me through alot of pain and plus they have the woman I love. I must take away their power somehow!!!! :sniper:


First off, how old are you and this "woman you love"? This makes a big difference in things....

Second, if her parents, her friends, her school, her church, and her are all in agreement and you have an opposing view, is it possible that you are just on the outside looking in?? It seems there is a whole lot of allies there in agreement for it to be some huge conspiracy theory to brainwash her.

Please don't take the above questions as sarcasm nor rudeness, these are serious questions... That, and sometimes people that are making mistakes (which she very well may be) have to find out the mistake themself and learn from it.....

I have several friends who were mentally abused there by the click and kicked out. So I have many allies that agree with me and suffered as I have. Heck I dare you to go on one of their tours and pretend you want to look around to see if you'd like to go there. Talk to the kids at lunchtime that group together and see what they talk about. You won't believe its a Christian school. At breaks the place transforms into a hell hole. And theres very little chance that she'll find her mistake on her own with the liberals and baptists she hangs around constantly badgering her to think like them.

I have several friends who were mentally abused there by the click and kicked out. So I have many allies that agree with me and suffered as I have. Heck I dare you to go on one of their tours and pretend you want to look around to see if you'd like to go there. Talk to the kids at lunchtime that group together and see what they talk about. You won't believe its a Christian school. At breaks the place transforms into a hell hole. And theres very little chance that she'll find her mistake on her own with the liberals and baptists she hangs around constantly badgering her to think like them.

'Liberals and Baptists'? Whats wrong with liberals, exactly?

I have several friends who were mentally abused there by the click and kicked out. So I have many allies that agree with me and suffered as I have. Heck I dare you to go on one of their tours and pretend you want to look around to see if you'd like to go there. Talk to the kids at lunchtime that group together and see what they talk about. You won't believe its a Christian school. At breaks the place transforms into a hell hole. And theres very little chance that she'll find her mistake on her own with the liberals and baptists she hangs around constantly badgering her to think like them.


Wait...you were complaining that it was too fundamentalistic..now you are saying its not Christian enough?

'Liberals and Baptists'? Whats wrong with liberals, exactly?

And what sort of society is this where the two intermingle? :eek:

And what sort of society is this where the two intermingle? :eek:


...hell...:eek:

Liberals believe in useless "I want to boogy no matter who it hurts shit" and they are the people that start witch cults and stuff like that. There is a right and a wrong, the wishy washy believe that we here to have fun is a LIE!!! Why else do people die all the time and why else must one constantly work in order to survive, Liberals are mascacistic weirdos. Most of 'em are like that in Washington. They'vew got the school system running backwards.

hell indeed. While class is in session everyones a goody two shoes tattling oneach other for puppy points. But when the bell rings and everyone leaves for break it gets scary. :eek:

Liberals believe in useless "I want to boogy no matter who it hurts shit" and they are the people that start witch cults and stuff like that. There is a right and a wrong, the wishy washy believe that we here to have fun is a LIE!!! Why else do people die all the time and why else must one constantly work in order to survive, Liberals are mascacistic weirdos. Most of 'em are like that in Washington. They'vew got the school system running backwards.


I'm guessing 15........... Shall we take a poll??

Hey guys,
There was this girl I was and probably still madly in love with and she's an utter pushover. She's part of a corrupt batist school which twists the gospel and makes pain and unquestionable obediance sound good. As a result she doesn't seem to have a will of her own anymore, She's been completely brainwashed. She lets the cruel hypocritical Bible click there bully her in many perverse ways and she's ok with it. And another thing is the Bible click represents the school so anyone could get sent to the office for no reason but that clicks above the law there.How can I save her? I have a few friends who were close to her before she was zombified and they want to help to. So far the plan we have is to cause dissension in the click so that the click loses its power and the school loses its popularity and influence. I really need more advice.

Your going to explain what specificly you think is cruel or hypocritical about the Bible here

What does age have to do with this?

Your going to explain what specificly you think is cruel or hypocritical about the Bible here

Possibly it's more to do with the school itself. Hell, I studied Bob Jones and places like this in Sociology. The stuff that goes on in there...hell, it's akin to brainwashing and gulags in some parts. They just turn out fundamentalist US Christians by the trainload.

What does age have to do with this?

Because if you're young (As I believe you are) then love means something much different and most likely isn't what you're going through.

WTF???? equipping for eternal life...what exactly is it that you equip for eternal life....that makes no sense

An AK-47 and a packed lunch. :)

*nods sagely*

Its not the Bible it the fact that they're using God as an excuse to hurt the non-baptists they don't like. They're not christian enough alright. What about the B-attitudes, how come they never mention them. Its the people not the bible. I'm a Chriistain which makes me angrier with them. How the hell can they call themselves servants of God when they are doing these things. If they cared they would stop the corruption they already know about.:mad:

By the way I know lust from love. This woman isn't as attractive as other women I saw but for some reason I sense a connection with her.

And besides they've tormented me and my friends if I'm to obliterate the click I might as well free a few people from it.

Its not the Bible it the fact that they're using God as an excuse to hurt the non-baptists they don't like. They're not christian enough alright. What about the B-attitudes, how come they never mention them. Its the people not the bible. I'm a Chriistain which makes me angrier with them. How the hell can they call themselves servants of God when they are doing these things. If they cared they would stop the corruption they already know about.:mad:

By the way I know lust from love. This woman isn't as attractive as other women I saw but for some reason I sense a connection with her.

1) Okay, let's get this straight. What *exactly* are they doing?
2) If you are recognizing the difference between lust and love, then I'm sure it is love. Realize, however, that there are actually two types of love as well. What you feel is probably (but not necessarily) passionate love, as opposed to compassionate love. I think this is what was meant, as opposed to the love/lust issue. Of course, the love/lust issue probably also needed to be cleared, since some (*cough* many) people don't know the difference.

And besides they've tormented me and my friends if I'm to obliterate the click I might as well free a few people from it.

Obliterate it? Son, you don't have a chance in hell of doing that.

Because if you're young (As I believe you are) then love means something much different and most likely isn't what you're going through.

I agree... No one is attacking you for your age, we just want to put this in perspective. There are some 15 year olds out there that have found true love, and others that are just in "puppy love" or have a crush on someone, which they construe as love. In addition, there is a big difference between a 14 or 15 year old girl in a high school that one believes to be "brainwashing them" from an 18-19 year old woman that may be in an actual cult, away from home, in a path to self-destruction. This is why we ask the age question.... puts everything in perspective.

And here I though that the zombie apocalypse had finally begun... :(

"Possibly it's more to do with the school itself. Hell, I studied Bob Jones and places like this in Sociology. The stuff that goes on in there...hell, it's akin to brainwashing and gulags in some parts. They just turn out fundamentalist US Christians by the trainload." sorry I'm a new member and I never needed to quote yet :s

Nevertheless brainwash is still wrong.

And here I though that the zombie apocalypse had finally begun... :(

I for one will welcome our shambling overlords.

"Possibly it's more to do with the school itself. Hell, I studied Bob Jones and places like this in Sociology. The stuff that goes on in there...hell, it's akin to brainwashing and gulags in some parts. They just turn out fundamentalist US Christians by the trainload." sorry I'm a new member and I never needed to quote yet :s

Nevertheless brainwash is still wrong.

What you do is hit the "quote" button on the bottom right corner of the post that you want to quote. Please respond to my previous post.

so 15 it is??

WTF???? equipping for eternal life...what exactly is it that you equip for eternal life....that makes no sense

It means preparing oneself to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. A goal that I also strive for.

They're brainwashing people and allowing corruption in the school to rise. They're allowing freaky behavior at lunch and mentally abuse non-baptists innocent or otherwise. If you turn out to be not of their specific religion you have just become a target in a blazing social war zone. I want to first have my friends petition getting the corruption out of the church them petioning that a few staff member who aren't corrupt take position as hall monitor in hopes that they'd ahnihalate the click's unnacceptable behavior and put a legislative strangle hold on them. That is how we plan to get vengiance. There your reply Oxymoon.

I strive to live in the kingdom of God but they say that only Baptists who act like they do can go to heaven. I want to got to heaven by not only accepting Jesus into my heart but by completing my purpose. Glorifying Him in everything I do.

those missions statements are hidden lies.
Translation: 1) You must be wise in OUR eyes and doas we tell you

From what I'm seeing, you aren't wise yourself. None of us are as wise as we believe we are.

2) We will educate you on how WE see the Bible and how it fits OUR ideas and not other cultists

All Christians believe in ever lasting life and that Jesus is our personal Lord and Savior. I have a few baptist friends and to be honest, they are not fundamentalists in anyway and we all believe that Jesus is coming back to rapture His church. Are you sure you are not just being paranoid because that is what it sounds like to me.

3) Equiping for eternal life means you have to stay the way they make you forever.

WRONG!!!

so 15 it is??

Could be older and still slightly brainwashed by the cult surroundings of the school.

My bet is 13 or 14 though.

First off, how old are you and this "woman you love"? This makes a big difference in things....

Second, if her parents, her friends, her school, her church, and her are all in agreement and you have an opposing view, is it possible that you are just on the outside looking in?? It seems there is a whole lot of allies there in agreement for it to be some huge conspiracy theory to brainwash her.

Please don't take the above questions as sarcasm nor rudeness, these are serious questions... That, and sometimes people that are making mistakes (which she very well may be) have to find out the mistake themself and learn from it.....

Agreed 100% Danmarc.

They're brainwashing people and allowing corruption in the school to rise. They're allowing freaky behavior at lunch and mentally abuse non-baptists innocent or otherwise. If you turn out to be not of their specific religion you have just become a target in a blazing social war zone. I want to first have my friends petition getting the corruption out of the church them petioning that a few staff member who aren't corrupt take position as hall monitor in hopes that they'd ahnihalate the click's unnacceptable behavior and put a legislative strangle hold on them. That is how we plan to get vengiance. There your reply Oxymoon.

That explains how you intend to deal with it, but isn't telling me *exactly* what is going on. How are they brainwashing people? What are they brainwashing them to do? What is this corruption and what does it lead too? What is the "freaky behavior"? How do they mentally abuse people? What is this clique and what sort of a legislative hold are you looking for?

Its not the Bible it the fact that they're using God as an excuse to hurt the non-baptists they don't like. They're not christian enough alright. What about the B-attitudes, how come they never mention them. Its the people not the bible. I'm a Chriistain which makes me angrier with them. How the hell can they call themselves servants of God when they are doing these things. If they cared they would stop the corruption they already know about.:mad:

By the way I know lust from love. This woman isn't as attractive as other women I saw but for some reason I sense a connection with her.

Then where is your christian like attitude?

I strive to live in the kingdom of God but they say that only Baptists who act like they do can go to heaven. I want to got to heaven by not only accepting Jesus into my heart but by completing my purpose. Glorifying Him in everything I do.

Have you heard the Catholics? The Calvinists? The Jews? How about the Muslims?

It means preparing oneself to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. A goal that I also strive for.
Wow, if it isnt my old friend........ I agree with the comments of WesternPA on this one...... not to mention WesternPA and I are going to have a hot date once we get to heaven..

Wow, if it isnt my old friend........ I agree with the comments of WesternPA on this one...... not to mention WesternPA and I are going to have a hot date once we get to heaven..

I think my husband will have something to say to that but I'm willing to have a nice time with ya :)

BTW: You have not contacted me in awhile :(

I think my husband will have something to say to that but I'm willing to have a nice time with ya :)

BTW: You have not contacted me in awhile :(

I'm sure your hubby and my wifey will get along just great........ come one, anybody that is nice enough to attract you or I can't be all bad.... I know, I have neglected my penpal status.... I will make a better effort....how is my prego friend these days?

They're brainwashing people through books false teachings ect. And getting those in trouble who disagree with them. My friend's guess is that all this brainwash is so that they can get more power in the church. What do most pwoerful religios leaders do these days? They use God as an excuse to make themselves seem higher than average folk. And the corruption is that the children there are brats that want to be popular under christian skin. They mentally abuse people by pickin on them, telling them things, constantly making you look like somone or something your not and then screwing or lying about your personal life. This click is filled with all the brats who want to look good so they decided to dress their religion up a little, of course thats not their real religion Oxymoon.

And WesternPA: I ackknowledge I'm not wise, its not a trait Americans on the coast generally posses however I would like to be wise.

And I'm not attacking the belief that Christ will return I'm attacking the way that school is using that knowledge to get people thinking like fundamentalists thats all.

And I am 15 but due to the fact that I go to a cheap coastal public school I may heve been dulled down, and don't forget that I was mentally abused there so I'm not as bright as I used to since I let all their personal attacks get to me at the time.

Just to make sure we are all on the same page, this is a Baptist high school, where the majority of people are in fact Baptist, but you are not, neither are your group of friends, and you feel like outsiders because of this....correct??? I am just setting the stage, please correct me if I am wrong...

I'm sure your hubby and my wifey will get along just great........ come one, anybody that is nice enough to attract you or I can't be all bad.... I know, I have neglected my penpal status.... I will make a better effort....how is my prego friend these days?

Hungry, tired and sore.

They're brainwashing people through books false teachings ect. And getting those in trouble who disagree with them. My friend's guess is that all this brainwash is so that they can get more power in the church. What do most pwoerful religios leaders do these days? They use God as an excuse to make themselves seem higher than average folk. And the corruption is that the children there are brats that want to be popular under christian skin. They mentally abuse people by pickin on them, telling them things, constantly making you look like somone or something your not and then screwing or lying about your personal life. This click is filled with all the brats who want to look good so they decided to dress their religion up a little, of course thats not their real religion Oxymoon.

Are you a baptist? I get the feeling you are not. Some religious sects do not like other religious sects. Its a sad fact of life unfortunately :(

And WesternPA: I ackknowledge I'm not wise, its not a trait Americans on the coast generally posses however I would like to be wise.

Its not a trait anywhere. Some may have more knowledge but wise? Even wisemen stumble and fall and they hurt others when they do.

And I'm not attacking the belief that Christ will return I'm attacking the way that school is using that knowledge to get people thinking like fundamentalists thats all.

I really wish you stop throwing the term fundamentalist around. It really is not helping your case here. I can tell you are upset but you just have to remain calm and PRAY TO GOD!

And I am 15 but due to the fact that I go to a cheap coastal public school I may heve been dulled down, and don't forget that I was mentally abused there so I'm not as bright as I used to since I let all their personal attacks get to me at the time.

Ever thought of Prayer and I mean not your standard night time phyical prayer.

Then where is your christian like attitude?

The christian would identify then remove the hypocrytes from the church.

Just to make sure we are all on the same page, this is a Baptist high school, where the majority of people are in fact Baptist, but you are not, neither are your group of friends, and you feel like outsiders because of this....correct??? I am just setting the stage, please correct me if I am wrong...

Hmm... this is a good point, although I think that Danmarc and WesternPA need to stop attacking SL in the process. Before we continue, SL, I believe you are Christian, yes? Which sect (or unaffiliated Christian) are you?

Yes of course I pray as well.

The christian would identify then remove the hypocrytes from the church.

Ya know? I do not like people who dodge my questions without a good reason. Where is your Christian like attitude of compassion, forgiveness and love?

Yes of course I pray as well.

How do you pray?

Ya know? I do not like people who dodge my questions without a good reason. Where is your Christian like attitude of compassion, forgiveness and love?

He's already demonstrated his, actually. You keep attacking him, so I'm going to return the same question to you; or at least ask you to calm down so that yours is a little more visible.

I pray for problems in my family to heal, I pray for my friends and of course I pray that that women they have captive eventually goes free and thinks all by herself.

He's already demonstrated his, actually. You keep attacking him, so I'm going to return the same question to you.

I'm not attacking him at all. He is so full of anger and hate I can feel it over the computer screen.

I pray for problems in my family to heal, I pray for my friends and of course I pray that that women they have captive eventually goes free and thinks all by herself.

Just the women?

I'm not attacking him at all. He is so full of anger and hate I can feel it over the computer screen.

Yes, and I can feel yours as well. His is still compatible with the Christian mindset - he's angry at/hating a situation. You're angry at/hating HIM, although you are also still trying to help, for which I thank you. Please, calm down and rethink how you are talking to him.

Oh, and please note the edit I made on the one before. I made it pretty soon after, but you were already replying.

Yes, and I can feel yours as well. His is still compatible with the Christian mindset - he's angry at/hating a situation. You're angry at/hating HIM.

I am not angry at him nor do I hate him. I am trying to get a handle on this so that I can help him. I am calm for I have been praying for guidance on how to help him in this situation.

I don't just pray for the women! I prayed for my grandfather and uncle while they were dying.

I don't just pray for the women! I prayed for my grandfather and uncle while they were dying.

I will keep them in my prayers as well. I will pray for their healing and I will keep you in my prayers for comfort :)

I am not angry at him nor do I hate him. I am trying to get a handle on this so that I can help him. I am calm for I have been praying for guidance on how to help him in this situation.

Ah! Please note the edits on BOTH of the posts I made before. You're replying too quickly!

Hmm... this is a good point, although I think that Danmarc and WesternPA need to stop attacking SL in the process. Before we continue, SL, I believe you are Christian, yes? Which sect (or unaffiliated Christian) are you?
Oxy, By no means am I attacking SL at all, just asked a question to make sure we are all on the same page (not unlike the question you posed)...

I am a Catholic. BTW both my Grandfather and uncle already died.

I am a Catholic

Ahh here in lies the distinct problems. Catholics and batists do not like one another and haven't for quite sometime.

Oxy, By no means am I attacking SL at all, just asked a question to make sure we are all on the same page (not unlike the question you posed)...

Difference in wording. I will admit, yours is harder to construe as an attack. Please consider your wording when you post - pretty sure your intent is not to make any sort of an attack, but the wording does make one think otherwise. Note that you had to stop and say that no one was attacking SL for his age.

Hey guys,
There was this girl I was and probably still madly in love with and she's an utter pushover. She's part of a corrupt batist school which twists the gospel and makes pain and unquestionable obediance sound good. As a result she doesn't seem to have a will of her own anymore, She's been completely brainwashed. She lets the cruel hypocritical Bible click there bully her in many perverse ways and she's ok with it. And another thing is the Bible click represents the school so anyone could get sent to the office for no reason but that clicks above the law there.How can I save her? I have a few friends who were close to her before she was zombified and they want to help to. So far the plan we have is to cause dissension in the click so that the click loses its power and the school loses its popularity and influence. I really need more advice.


Just dump her. Shes damaged goods. A head on train wreck consisting entirely of baggage cars. Run away just as fast as you can and find a different girl to fall in love with. You can thank me later.

Just dump her. Shes damaged goods. A head on train wreck consisting entirely of baggage cars. Run away just as fast as you can and find a different girl to fall in love with. You can thank me later.

Or his life incomplete if this girl he loves is the one God wants him to marry.

Ahh here in lies the distinct problems. Catholics and baptists do not like one another and haven't for quite sometime.

(Thank you WesternPA - better wording!)

Okay, so you are looking at this from the Catholic-outsider perspective. Sometimes an outsider's perspective is what's needed, and sometimes it can lead to misunderstandings. So, let's dissect what you've seen, okay? What beliefs that have been "brainwashed" (this is an actual psychological term - I doubt they've used the actual proceedure, hence the "s) into the students that are bothering you?

some people can help you better than we can...

Well can you at least answer this? How do most brainwashed people snap out of it. What gets them?

Well can you at least answer this? How do most brainwashed people snap out of it. What gets them?

First off, you have establish that they are, in fact, brainwashed.

Well can you at least answer this? How do most brainwashed people snap out of it. What gets them?

Real and true brainwashing requires professionals to unbrainwash them. If your concern is for something that I doubt is brainwashing by definition (you're using the colloquial term, right?), try talking to her, but carefully. The best way of dealing with it is to show a flaw with the logic, and give her time to come to terms with it on her own. However, you need to not push her away in the process, which makes this *really* hard to do.

Difference in wording. I will admit, yours is harder to construe as an attack. Please consider your wording when you post - pretty sure your intent is not to make any sort of an attack, but the wording does make one think otherwise. Note that you had to stop and say that no one was attacking SL for his age.

you make a valid point.........noted....

Or his life incomplete if this girl he loves is the one God wants him to marry.


If God is working on this project then dumping her will still have little effect.

God's will being what it is and all.

If not then dumping the poor brainwashed darling will save him a long hard path ahead.

If God is working on this project then dumping her will still have little effect.

He'll be regretting it for the rest of his life if this is truly the person he is supposed to be with. That isn't little effect my friend.

God's will being what it is and all.

Do you know God's will? No you don't. None of us does unless we continuously pray about it.

If not then dumping the poor brainwashed darling will save him a long hard path ahead.

I would ask God first.

some people can help you better than we can...
This click has many contacts so I see it best that I stick with an unofficial source.


Okay, so you are looking at this from the Catholic-outsider perspective. Sometimes an outsider's perspective is what's needed, and sometimes it can lead to misunderstandings. So, let's dissect what you've seen, okay? What beliefs that have been "brainwashed" (this is an actual psychological term - I doubt they've used the actual proceedure, hence the "s) into the students that are bothering you?

its true the skinny87 person or whatever found proof of brainwash in previous posts on this thread. And they did bother me. They labeled me a stalker after they found out I was concerned for this woman, and the whole school would whisper stalker as I walked by. They looked at me not as a Catholic but one of those sick priests that get arrested for whoring. I could have had a succesful career there and had a better chance for colledge, but now the only chances I have now are low, I'm probably going to go to the Everret college my sister went to. What they did was wrong on so many levels. They did this to many people, not just me. I want to stop them.

its true the skinny87 person or whatever found proof of brainwash in previous posts on this thread. And they did bother me. They labeled me a stalker after they found out I was concerned for this woman, and the whole school would whisper stalker as I walked by. They looked at me not as a Catholic but one of those sick priests that get arrested for whoring. I could have had a succesful career there and had a better chance for colledge, but now the only chances I have now are low, I'm probably going to go to the Everret college my sister went to. What they did was wrong on so many levels. They did this to many people, not just me. I want to stop them.

Not to sound rude or anything but isn't this all in your mind? Also, have you talked to the priest of your church or to the people in charge of this High School?

Can we delay the theological debate until after the problem has been solved? It's certainly an interesting one that's beginning to show up, but I'd like to help SL first, don't you? Brings more positive energy into the world.

Can we delay the theological debate until after the problem has been solved? It's certainly an interesting one that's beginning to show up, but I'd like to help SL first, don't you? Brings more positive energy into the world.

But it is actually a theological problem as well.

Do you know God's will? No you don't. None of us does unless we continuously pray about it.




You seem to have sussed it out what God's will is in this instance in about 3 minutes.


What if God wants him to be happy instead of saddled with a mental case?


Then by not dumping her he is a regular affront to God isnt he?

This click has many contacts so I see it best that I stick with an unofficial source.



its true the skinny87 person or whatever found proof of brainwash in previous posts on this thread. And they did bother me. They labeled me a stalker after they found out I was concerned for this woman, and the whole school would whisper stalker as I walked by. They looked at me not as a Catholic but one of those sick priests that get arrested for whoring. I could have had a succesful career there and had a better chance for colledge, but now the only chances I have now are low, I'm probably going to go to the Everret college my sister went to. What they did was wrong on so many levels. They did this to many people, not just me. I want to stop them.

That sounds bad, and it should end, regardless of whether or not brainwashing is involved. No one should be subjected to that sort of ostracization based upon their beliefs. However, to understand the full problem, I need to know what those beliefs are that are being "brainwashed" into the students. Can you help me with that?

You seem to have sussed it out what God's will is in this instance in about 3 minutes.


What if God wants him to be happy instead of saddled with a mental case?


Then by not dumping her he is a regular affront to God isnt he?

Oh good. I haven't had a good God debate since I left 7th Grade :D

If it is God's will to stay with her then it would be an affront to God to "dump her". If it is God's will for him to "dump her" and he doesn't then that is an affront to God.

what is the opinion of your parents or teachers? there has to be at least someone you can talk to in real life, someone who knows the context better than us.

But it is actually a theological problem as well.

Not yet, actually. His concern is that the girl is being brainwashed. The fact that what she's being brainwashed with is religious doesn't make it a theological problem yet. It isn't until trying to figure out whether or not the girl is, in fact, being *brainwashed* rather than being *taught* religious beliefs.

Not yet, actually. His concern is that the girl is being brainwashed. The fact that what she's being brainwashed with is religious doesn't make it a theological problem yet. It isn't until trying to figure out whether or not the girl is, in fact, being *brainwashed* rather than being *taught* religious beliefs.

So why are we trying to decide if she is brainwashed or not over the internet? That's a job for a train professional and not for those us on an internet chat forum :D

The "priests" I was taling about were the Catholic raping ones. They're the main reason people change from Catholic to something else. And yes I talked to the priest of the school. He didn't do squat. Several of my friends talked to him and all hes said was he'd pray about it. And the administration did absolutely nothing. God only help those who help themselves but apparently he doesn't want to help himself furthermore the school. Thats all he says for all the problems that come up. "I'll just pray about it and hopefully it'll all get better." And to prove it I'll give you the nation of my friend on Nationstates so you can telagram him. His country is Toori. He'll agree.

The "priests" I was taling about were the Catholic raping ones. They're the main reason people change from Catholic to something else. And yes I talked to the priest of the school. He didn't do squat. Several of my friends talked to him and all hes said was he'd pray about it. And the administration did absolutely nothing. God only help those who help themselves but apparently he doesn't want to help himself furthermore the school. Thats all he says for all the problems that come up. "I'll just pray about it and hopefully it'll all get better." And to prove it I'll give you the nation of my friend on Nationstates so you can telagram him. His country is Toori. He'll agree.

Does he know you are not baptist?

o why are we trying to decide if she is brainwashed or not over the internet? That's a job for a train professional and not for those us on an internet chat forum

I'll keep that in mind to get a professional, but what about geting the professional to her?

And yes my friend hates baptists too!

So why are we trying to decide if she is brainwashed or not over the internet? That's a job for a train professional and not for those us on an internet chat forum :D

Because I'm becoming one. This is what I do. :) However, yes, I'm pretty much reaching the point where I feel that this is getting to be a bit hard to do over the internet on a forum. So, here comes my best suggestion yet.

SL, you ready for this? Okay. See a psychotherapist - one who is not baptist, nor in any way affiliated with the school. Choose one that you have to drive an hour to reach if you have to, but the psychotherapist needs to not be affiliated. Now, if there is a problem, the psychotherapist can tell you THE best way to deal with it, if he/she cannot deal with it him/herself. If there isn't (which I seriously doubt), he/she can tell you why. Either way, the psychotherapist can help you better deal with the problem, so it doesn't have to weigh upon you as heavily. You'll feel a lot better.

Oh good. I haven't had a good God debate since I left 7th Grade :D

If it is God's will to stay with her then it would be an affront to God to "dump her". If it is God's will for him to "dump her" and he doesn't then that is an affront to God.

Im shocked at this. You dragged God right in first rattle out of the gate.

But since God's will is unknown lets get back on track. What should a guy who finds himself deeply infatuated with a brainwashed girl do?

He should run for his life and sanity just as fast as possible. I will qualify that statement with an "Unless and until God makes His will regarding the brainwashed girl known"

I'll keep that in mind to get a professional, but what about geting the professional to her?

And yes my friend hates baptists too!

Ok, hating another religion isn't christian like either and I didn't ask if you or he hated baptists. I asked you if the leader of the school knows that you are not a baptist.

Im shocked at this. You dragged God right in first rattle out of the gate.

But since God's will is unknown lets get back on track. What should a guy who finds himself deeply infatuated with a brainwashed girl do?

He should run for his life and sanity just as fast as possible. I will qualify that statement with an "Unless and until God makes His will regarding the brainwashed girl known"

We haven't even established wether or not the girl is brainwashed so how can you say she is brainwashed when it hasn't been established yet?

This might not be the best place for help, old chum. Have you tried speaking to her parents? Or her? Importantly, what are her views on it? Does she like, not like it, tolerates it for the parents?

Better yet, have you tried blowing her zombified brains out with a Remington?

I'll keep that in mind to get a professional, but what about geting the professional to her?

And yes my friend hates baptists too!

You can't force her to see a professional. I stand by my original idea, see a psychotherapist yourself. If the psychotherapist feels that it would be good to see this girl, you can ask her to come, but remember that you can't force her. You can never force psychotherapy onto someone - change happens only if that person wants to change. But who knows, maybe after finding out that you've been seeing the therapist and that the therapist thinks he/she should talk to her, she'll want to see the therapist. It does happen.

You can't forcibly "unbrainwash" someone. They have to do it - all you can do is offer guidance if they want to take it.

We haven't even established wether or not the girl is brainwashed so how can you say she is brainwashed when it hasn't been established yet?


Its in the first post.


"She's been completely brainwashed. "


It doesnt even matter if it's true or not. The fact that he believes it is enough to make him miserable with the girl.

Its in the first post.


"She's been completely brainwashed. "


It doesnt even matter if it's true or not. The fact that he believes it is enough to make him miserable with the girl.

Its his opinion and therefor it is unsubstantiated. Therefor, we have not established that she was, infact, brainwashed.

Its his opinion and therefor it is unsubstantiated. Therefor, we have not established that she was, infact, brainwashed.

So, do you want en expert team of psychologists to be immediately despatched to the OPs location, or what? I dont see how we could resolve this.

You can't force her to see a professional. I stand by my original idea, see a psychotherapist yourself. If the psychotherapist feels that it would be good to see this girl, you can ask her to come, but remember that you can't force her. You can never force psychotherapy onto someone - change happens only if that person wants to change. But who knows, maybe after finding out that you've been seeing the therapist and that the therapist thinks he/she should talk to her, she'll want to see the therapist. It does happen.

You can't forcibly "unbrainwash" someone. They have to do it - all you can do is offer guidance if they want to take it.

I have to agree with Oxymoon. I just jumped into this debate (because honestly folks...Zombies and God? Who woundn't want to join in on this? Frankly, friend, if you really like this girl, and I mean LIKE, like spend the rest of your life with like, then stick by her, offer her guidence, but respect her choices. If she wants to adhere to that kind of faith, let her. But let her know that there is more to life than just...well, whatever they're teaching her. And if you can't handle that, you should do something! I suggest these 3 options:
1. Go postal on her zombie ass. Then hole up until the feds arrive and clear out the rest of the infestation.
2. Find a different girl. Seriously, it isn't that hard. Teenage hormones just make it look hard. And if you're not a teenager, then hormones in general are against you.
3. Forget the whole thing. Play a video game or hang out with some friends or take a bike ride or something. Clear your mind and focus on the deeper things in life!

This will in no way help, I'm sure, but 2 cents is 2 cents. Spend it as you like!

So, do you want en expert team of psychologists to be immediately despatched to the OPs location, or what? I dont see how we could resolve this.

No need to get hostile with me! I wasn't hostile at all. WHy is everyone hostile to me? *starts to cry*

You can't forcibly "unbrainwash" someone. They have to do it - all you can do is offer guidance if they want to take it.


I've gotta ask. Is "unbrainwash" also real psychological jargon like "brainwash" apparantly is?

Id have thought the mental health professional community would have come up with a less hard term for this like "help" or "work through the issues" or (optomistically) "cure".

talk to her then but don't mention anything on this post to her or anything about me. They do the thinking for her. Idly ask her about politics, her views on marriage, anything. All she'll say is "idk" And if she doesn't and has her own STRONG opinion then my prays are working.

No need to get hostile with me! I wasn't hostile at all. WHy is everyone hostile to me? *starts to cry*

That wasnt hostility, it was sarcasm. I'm new to the thread and its not like I'm going to hate anybody after reading a few lines that they've written. I just didnt see the point of the question, is all.

Its his opinion and therefor it is unsubstantiated. Therefor, we have not established that she was, infact, brainwashed.


Whether she is brainwashed or is not brainwashed is of no consequence. If he believes that she is brainwashed then he will be unhappy with her and he should not pursue the relationship.

SL: does she know that you do not like baptists?

Yes she does. :(

Whether she is brainwashed or is not brainwashed is of no consequence. If he believes that she is brainwashed then he will be unhappy with her and he should not pursue the relationship.

I'm still wondering how old the girl is. I'm guessing the same age as he is. Frankly, I am finding his whole argument full of holes that need to be filled in.

Yes she does. :(

And there we have the answer to the problem.

Ok now with that said, are you trying to understand where she is coming from?

Also, why don't you like baptists?

I'm still wondering how old the girl is. I'm guessing the same age as he is. Frankly, I am finding his whole argument full of holes that need to be filled in.


He isnt arguing he is asking for help and advice.

I've gotta ask. Is "unbrainwash" also real psychological jargon like "brainwash" apparantly is?

Id have thought the mental health professional community would have come up with a less hard term for this like "help" or "work through the issues" or (optomistically) "cure".

No, "unbrainwashing" definitely is not professional. Pretty sure the real term is "unconditioning." If you're wondering why, the non-colloquial version involves conditioning.

talk to her then but don't mention anything on this post to her or anything about me. Her e-mail is <email removed to protect the innocent> and ask her how she deals with things. Most of the time she'll reply "idk" They do the thinking for her. Idly ask er about politics, her views on marriage, anything. All she'll say is "idk" And if she doesn't and has her own STRONG opinion then my prays are working.

Er... who are you saying that to, SL? And will she actually want some stranger emailing her? How is a stranger supposed to approach her?

She's 15 too. And ask my friend on Toori af shes brainwashed, he'll agree.

He isnt arguing he is asking for help and advice.

But he is arguing that she is brainwashed and now we have established the fact that he does not like baptists and that she knows that he doesn't like baptists. Could be why he's getting the cold shoulder.

She's 15 too. And ask my friend on Toori af shes brainwashed, he'll agree.

Sorry but since you have admitted that both you and your friend admit that you do not like baptists, I am finding this whole affair suspicious.

You seem to have sussed it out what God's will is in this instance in about 3 minutes.


What if God wants him to be happy instead of saddled with a mental case?


Then by not dumping her he is a regular affront to God isnt he?

Or, perhaps God wants her to get away from him. Because he's unstable and it wouldn't be a good relationship.

Or, perhaps God wants her to get away from him. Because he's unstable and it wouldn't be a good relationship.

Now there is that possibility.

Or, perhaps God wants her to get away from him. Because he's unstable and it wouldn't be a good relationship.

A possibility, although there's a pretty big assumption right there.
Anyway, can we finish solving the problem, whatever that problem might be (since we have differing views on that) before we start the religious debates again?

Now there is that possibility.


So we can finally agree. He should dump her ASAP.

A possibility, although there's a pretty big assumption right there.
Anyway, can we finish solving the problem, whatever that problem might be (since we have differing views on that) before we start the religious debates again?

I think it is becoming clear that alot of this is stemming from his dislike of baptist and this girl knows he does not like baptists. Seems to me she is not happy with the fact that he doesn't like her being a baptist and therefor, labels it brainwashing.

Now, don't call me a stupid romantic, but she's obviously not the one for you. The was a girl that I wanted to ask out, but she hung out with a bunch of jackasses that hated me. I lost interest in her. Now, if she wants to be a part of this stupid conservative Bible clique, look for someone else.

NOTE: I do not think the Bible is stupid, only the misuse of it.

talk to her then but don't mention anything on this post to her or anything about me. Her e-mail is trucountrychickusa@hotmail.com and ask her how she deals with things. Most of the time she'll reply "idk" They do the thinking for her. Idly ask er about politics, her views on marriage, anything. All she'll say is "idk" And if she doesn't and has her own STRONG opinion then my prays are working.

What the crap man!? Giving any random person an innocent girl's e-mail address!? You don't seem to respect her privacy at all...

We haven't even established wether or not the girl is brainwashed so how can you say she is brainwashed when it hasn't been established yet?
Brainwashed is a very arbitrary term (hope you don't mind me interrupting). Almost all education can be considered a form of subversive brainwashing if you wish to include the passing on of social ideologies through the subconscious as a subset of it.

Anyway, my view is that while it is probably the case that this girl is in a difficult spot and could do with being "rescued", so to speak, Lizasauria may not be in a position to do anything about it. The way to attack the problem is to use ideas both within the Baptist movement and in complete contrast to Baptist Christianity (ie, secular ethics, Biblical skepticism etc.) to pull apart their "fundamentalist" stance. Catholicism is neither in favour of the Baptist Church nor against it, and using their ideas might cause both a communication gap and an inability to question the really fundamental flaws of their beliefs that will have a greatly reduced impact.

A possibility, although there's a pretty big assumption right there.
Anyway, can we finish solving the problem, whatever that problem might be (since we have differing views on that) before we start the religious debates again?

OK. Artheists are religious fanatics of a different sort. They worship logic.Yet logic states you cannot prove a negative. So they cannot ever prove there is no God.

talk to her then but don't mention anything on this post to her or anything about me. Her e-mail is trucountrychickusa@hotmail.com and ask her how she deals with things. Most of the time she'll reply "idk" They do the thinking for her. Idly ask er about politics, her views on marriage, anything. All she'll say is "idk" And if she doesn't and has her own STRONG opinion then my prays are working.


Not to be ingorrant of the situation, but what is IDK?? Just curious...

Not to be ingorrant of the situation, but what is IDK?? Just curious...

I'm guessing "I don't know".

Welp I don't like Baptists because the ones I came in contact with are all insanely judgemental and they all abuse anyone who isn't of their religion in any way they can without getting in trouble. When you approach her say your someone from Cedarcrest and saw how nice a person she was.

And yup after they labelled me stalker I maybe a bit unstable thats why I don't intend to have a relationship with her after I "free her" I guess you can say.
Besides even the people in the click agree with me when I say she's their mindless pawn. They're not afraid cuz everyone knows she is there and those that don't wouldn't beleive me because I was a poria there along with all other non baptists.

I'm guessing "I don't know".

That was what I was going to say.

Welp I don't like Baptists because the ones I came in contact with are all insanely judgemental and they all abuse anyone who isn't of their religion in any way they can without getting in trouble. When you approach her say your someone from Cedarcrest and saw how nice a person she was.

And yup after they labelled me stalker I maybe a bit unstable thats why I don't intend to have a relationship with her after I "free her" I guess you can say.
Besides even the people in the click agree with me when I say she's their mindless pawn. They're not afraid cuz everyone knows she is there and those that don't wouldn't beleive me because I was a poria there along with all other non baptists.

did you make it known that you were interested in her?

That was what I was going to say.

It was gods will for me to say it first. :p

It was gods will for me to say it first. :p

LOL!

Not to be ingorrant of the situation, but what is IDK?? Just curious...

IDK = I don't know

OK. Artheists are religious fanatics of a different sort. They worship logic.Yet logic states you cannot prove a negative. So they cannot ever prove there is no God.

Why was that said in response to me? And what's an artheist? I know what an atheist is, as well as an artist, but I've never heard of an artheist. Mixture of the two?

It means preparing oneself to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. A goal that I also strive for.


You have to prepare to get into heaven? I am of the mindset that you can't prepare for that. You get to heaven through salvation, and not through these "preperations".

What the crap man!? Giving any random person an innocent girl's e-mail address!? You don't seem to respect her privacy at all..

Sorry, you guys are asking for proof. Well can you gus like delete the e-mail so no one else see it? I'll go edit.

Okay. This is really quite simple everyone. It's a case of a kid who doesn't fit in who likes someone who does. They used to be friends but she's changed or grown up or whatever, or maybe he has, we can't know for sure. So he's made up this whole conspiracy theory in his head about Baptists brainwashing her which is total bs. Sorry, it's true. And no, those rumors that high school kids started about you won't affect your chances of getting into a good school, that assumption right there is proof enough that something is not right with this kid. He should just drop it, make some new friends, quit worrying about this girl who has left him behind, and get on with his life.
THE freakin END

You have to prepare to get into heaven? I am of the mindset that you can't prepare for that. You get to heaven through salvation, and not through these "preperations".

Salvation=Preparation

OK. Artheists are religious fanatics of a different sort. They worship logic.Yet logic states you cannot prove a negative. So they cannot ever prove there is no God.
They don't try to. They simply state that God, in as much as it is defined, is a ridiculous notion.

And while I entirely agree that there are some Atheists who could be labelled "religious", not all are. Some of them just have it on in the background that they don't believe that this notion called God has any value. They don't actively "worship" anything.

[/sidetrack]

In all seriousness you're 15, and as such I believe are taking this thing a whole lot to seriously. The brainwashing sounds more like just fitting in with the popular clique who you are at odds with. Perhaps it's best to move on with your life unless she's doing something extremely self destructive.

Okay. This is really quite simple everyone. It's a case of a kid who doesn't fit in who likes someone who does. They used to be friends but she's changed or grown up or whatever, or maybe he has, we can't know for sure. So he's made up this whole conspiracy theory in his head about Baptists brainwashing her which is total bs. Sorry, it's true. And no, those rumors that high school kids started about you won't affect your chances of getting into a good school, that assumption right there is proof enough that something is not right with this kid. He should just drop it, make some new friends, quit worrying about this girl who has left him behind, and get on with his life.
THE freakin END

Even that's less simple than it seems. Anyway, I respectfully disagree with you, even though I recognize that everyone has their own truth, and they never are exactly the same as THE truth.

Salvation=Preparation


Salvation- accepting christ
preparing- sounds like getting to heaven through works...thats IMO though

Salvation- accepting christ
preparing- sounds like getting to heaven through works...thats IMO though

You can accept Jesus but yet if you do not follow his ways, you will not get into heaven. By doing his works, you are preparing to go into Heaven.

Its a play on words.

IDK = I don't know



Why was that said in response to me? And what's an artheist? I know what an atheist is, as well as an artist, but I've never heard of an artheist. Mixture of the two?


It was said in response to you because you wanted religious debate. I started one. Yet you didnt even thank me or join in. I now tend to wonder if you really wanted to debate.

Sorry about accidently adding an "r" to atheist. But I dont really ned spell check do I? Not while I've got you bird dogging for spelling errors:fluffle:

In all seriousness you're 15, and as such I believe are taking this thing a whole lot to seriously. The brainwashing sounds more like just fitting in with the popular clique who you are at odds with. Perhaps it's best to move on with your life unless she's doing something extremely self destructive.

Hella, I love you man.

Fine then we've reached our conclusion on the girl now what about the brainwash at the school? There are earlier posts with proof that they come out of that place as a mindless drone.

Possibly it's more to do with the school itself. Hell, I studied Bob Jones and places like this in Sociology. The stuff that goes on in there...hell, it's akin to brainwashing and gulags in some parts. They just turn out fundamentalist US Christians by the trainload.

Well this is wrong. That proves they brainwash. Aye?
Theres your proof then.

It was said in response to you because you wanted religious debate. I started one. Yet you didnt even thank me or join in. I now tend to wonder if you really wanted to debate.

Sorry about accidently adding an "r" to atheist. But I dont really ned spell check do I? Not while I've got you bird dogging for spelling errors:fluffle:

Actually, he didn't want a religious debate. He wanted to avoid it.

Fine then we've reached our conclusion on the girl now what about the brainwash at the school? There are earlier posts with proof that they come out of that place as a mindless drone.



Well this is wrong. That proves they brainwash. Aye?
Theres your proof then.

ACtually no. I have read all the pages of this debate and all I"m seeing is your inability to fit in and you not liking the fact that they just do not like you because of your bigotry and your inability to cope with adversity.

Well she does do things self destructive. Heck I was somewhat terrified whenver in prayer requests she mentioned what happens with her siblings. brrrr. One has became a complete goth nad the other who is now grown up is constantly mugged my her drunk nieghbors.

Well she does do things self destructive. Heck I was somewhat terrified whenver in prayer requests she mentioned what happens with her siblings. brrrr. One has became a complete goth nad the other who is now grown up is constantly mugged my her drunk nieghbors.

How is that self destructive?

Well she does do things self destructive. Heck I was somewhat terrified whenver in prayer requests she mentioned what happens with her siblings. brrrr. One has became a complete goth nad the other who is now grown up is constantly mugged my her drunk nieghbors.

And these requests are self-destructive? What has she done that was self-destructive?

Actually, he didn't want a religious debate. He wanted to avoid it.

She, actually, but yeah.

And in response to SL, yeah. It's sounding very Chocolate War-ish. Ever read that book? Am I remotely correct?

It means preparing oneself to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. A goal that I also strive for.

Apologies in advance... this is just a kneejerk reaction from a dirty British atheist here, what if the Kingdom of Heaven is a lie and there is nothing beyond?... Sorry for questioning it... my real question is this: Why are schools allowed to force dogmatic propaganda down the throats of their students anyway? Whether or not the teaching is corrupt or not, school is for education, church is where you learn your superstitions... or am I being dumb here?

And the others who wer treated as I was?:mad:

http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/zombie-survival-guide.jpg

And the others who wer treated as I was?:mad:

1) do they hate baptists?

2) Did the constently get in trouble for things that they weren't supposed to do?

Well this is wrong. That proves they brainwash. Aye?
Theres your proof then.

People go to a religious school to learn about whatever religion. It's not like they're being forced by the government, just their parents, or maybe they aren't being forced at all. It's her choice who she hangs out with, what she believes, and how she acts. There nothing you could, or should, do to change her. Besides if she didn't want to be "brainwashed," as you call it though I detest the term, it wouldn't work...

Apologies in advance... this is just a kneejerk reaction from a dirty British atheist here, what if the Kingdom of Heaven is a lie and there is nothing beyond?... Sorry for questioning it... my real question is this: Why are schools allowed to force dogmatic propaganda down the throats of their students anyway? Whether or not the teaching is corrupt or not, school is for education, church is where you learn your superstitions... or am I being dumb here?

I agree on the propghaganda part but I disagree with the athiesm part. Religion is what kept us in line many centurries ago and somehow now that we have technology we believe we're the center of the universe when we have these problems that our ancestors didn't. Maybe if people still respected God and acknowledged that science was a gift he gave to us we'd all live better lives.

Just a thought, not meant to offend anyone.

And the others who wer treated as I was?:mad:
Do you mean the other kids who don't feel they fit in?

1) do they hate baptists?

2) Did the constently get in trouble for things that they weren't supposed to do?

Yes they hate baptists
And no they generally tried to be good people there.

Apologies in advance... this is just a kneejerk reaction from a dirty British atheist here, what if the Kingdom of Heaven is a lie and there is nothing beyond?... Sorry for questioning it... my real question is this: Why are schools allowed to force dogmatic propaganda down the throats of their students anyway? Whether or not the teaching is corrupt or not, school is for education, church is where you learn your superstitions... or am I being dumb here?

This is likely a private school which is not funded by the government and is therefore not the government's business. The parents have the option of using free public education rather than choosing (and paying) to have their children educated in a church run school.

Apologies in advance... this is just a kneejerk reaction from a dirty British atheist here, what if the Kingdom of Heaven is a lie and there is nothing beyond?... Sorry for questioning it... my real question is this: Why are schools allowed to force dogmatic propaganda down the throats of their students anyway? Whether or not the teaching is corrupt or not, school is for education, church is where you learn your superstitions... or am I being dumb here?
I don't know about you, but it seems to me that in a world threatening a rise in Christian Supremecists, knowledge of the Bible is one of the best defences against this sort of extremism you can give a student.

Apologies in advance... this is just a kneejerk reaction from a dirty British atheist here, what if the Kingdom of Heaven is a lie and there is nothing beyond?... Sorry for questioning it... my real question is this: Why are schools allowed to force dogmatic propaganda down the throats of their students anyway? Whether or not the teaching is corrupt or not, school is for education, church is where you learn your superstitions... or am I being dumb here?

1) In America, christianity is not rammed down our throats in schools. Evolution on the other hand, is jammed down our throats and we cannot question it because it is "fact" when in fact it is not fact.

and

2) I agree that school is for education

An AK-47 and a packed lunch. :)

*nods sagely*

*Returns nod*

...Let's get going. :D

So what would you say about those who use school for expressing their views or those who are screwing over students so they can get what they want?

Yes they hate baptists

well you have a problem then. If it is only people who are not baptists who are not fitting in because they hate baptists, what does that tell you?

I don't know about you, but it seems to me that in a world threatening a rise in Christian Supremecists, knowledge of the Bible is one of the best defences against this sort of extremism you can give a student.

With that sort of a problem, knowledge of the Bible won't do anything to help. You have to follow religious dogma in that case, not the Bible. Arguing using the Bible doesn't work against extremism. Somehow, the Bible gets lost in the process.

Well I've been reading pretty much all of this (I stopped at the 70th post or something because I have problems of my own to deal with) but it appears that the Baptist tenets are what's being corrupted in the school:

(according to dictionary.com) a Baptist is a member of an evangelical Protestant church of congregational polity, following the reformed tradition in worship, and believing in individual freedom, in the separation of church and state, and in baptism of voluntary, conscious believers.

If the school is (and it does seem so) brainwashing, then the whole individual freedom thing is wiped out, as is the voluntary, conscious believer part (if what you say is true about non-Baptists becoming targets of a 'social war-zone')

If it is brainwashing indeed, then you won't be able to get her away from it by talking to her. She needs to be physically removed from the surroundings before she'll start thinking for herself again, particularly if the school is warning the students of people trying to 'force you from the path' or something like that. The same kind of thing happened with the likes of the Moonies cult. There was a report from a former member that any attempt from a beloved member of his family to get him from it he'd automatically start chanting some prayer thing and ignore them basically. It wasn't until he broke his leg and was removed from the cult surroundings he began to think for himself, realised it was controlling him as a person and he left.

The problem with your love however, is that it's also an educational environment (or it's s'posed to be) which means she can't really be removed from it all that easily for good, particularly if her parents are staunch supporters of the school and the way it goes about things. You just have to wait until she graduates, my friend, and hope she avoids going to an affiliated college.

Sorry...

I agree on the propghaganda part but I disagree with the athiesm part. Religion is what kept us in line many centurries ago and somehow now that we have technology we believe we're the center of the universe when we have these problems that our ancestors didn't. Maybe if people still respected God and acknowledged that science was a gift he gave to us we'd all live better lives.

Just a thought, not meant to offend anyone.
yes...kept us in line...hmmm funny you should mention that. Because that's what it's designed to do, keep people in line. Create people willing to live and die for an ideal. Oh yes...religion also is the primary cause of intolerance, death, and war throughout history...why is that so? Because it's a vessel of control. For one person to control a whole country and fool them into thinking a certain course of action is right, or fits in with the Lord's plan...erg, honestly, organized religion makes me want to puke. You can have faith in the Lord without dragging yourself to church every sunday. You can be a good person on your own, it doesn't take satan breathing down your neck, or the fear of hell. Just be a good person because it's the right thing to do.

Woops, tangent.

Zombie, eh? I'd definitely recommend the chainsaw and shotgun approach, then. Works every time.:p

they only hate them now becuase of the way they were treated, hell when we first went in there I thought I'd come out a great evanglist or something (I was a dumb little kid at the time)

After years of torment and agony I finally began to fight back in 8th grade by poibnting out everything everyone did wrong.

Eventually after I was out my friend said he was out too so we talked about it, and strangely enough our experience there was the same, but we didn't notice because we were too busy defending our honor from their constant zenophobic cracks.

So what would you say about those who use school for expressing their views or those who are screwing over students so they can get what they want?
If they can teach students to question their (ie, both students' and teachers') views and motives then they're doing their job just fine, regardless of their own stance. If not, then they're obviously incompetent as educators and should be sacked anyway.

1) In America, christianity is not rammed down our throats in schools. Evolution on the other hand, is jammed down our throats and we cannot question it because it is "fact" when in fact it is not fact.

and

2) I agree that school is for education

It's not jammed down our throats. It's provided as a possibility. A possibility that the student has to decide whether to believe in or not. It's not our fault that there's concrete evidence...lol

With that sort of a problem, knowledge of the Bible won't do anything to help. You have to follow religious dogma in that case, not the Bible. Arguing using the Bible doesn't work against extremism. Somehow, the Bible gets lost in the process.
It won't do anything to help against extremists. It will, however, help to prevent the students personally from being duped into the frame of mind.

Of course, ironically, the only kids who listen in RE class are those who're religious already.

It's not jammed down our throats. It's provided as a possibility. A possibility that the student has to decide whether to believe in or not. It's not our fault that there's concrete evidence...lol

ACtually, it is rammed down our throats.

Whats so wrong with war, there are several going on as we speak but we don't consider them wars. We kill each other in a many ways I'd rather people just hide in treches chucking grenades at each other thatn the stuff done today. Tolerance is whats messing us up. People aren't meant to mix in with each other, tolerance will only increase crime and immoralaty while reliosness will keep us moral. And war is better than having gansters kill each other on mainstreet, at least the person trying to kill you in uniform would fight under a rule book.

ACtually, it is rammed down our throats.

Well can you provide a better explination of how the world got to the place it is today and be able to back it up with proof?

Whats so wrong with war, there are several going on as we speak but we don't consider them wars. We kill each other in a many ways I'd rather people just hide in treches chucking grenades at each other thatn the stuff done today. Tolerance is whats messing us up. People aren't meant to mix in with each other, tolerance will only increase crime and immoralaty while reliosness will keep us moral. And war is better than having gansters kill each other on mainstreet, at least the person trying to kill you in uniform would fight under a rule book.

Sorry to jump in, But what the crap?
Tolerance means you tolerate something, you don't have to accept or promote it.
Why aren't people meant to mix with each other?
And what rule book? The Geneva convention? It was a very nice idea...

they only hate them now becuase of the way they were treated, hell when we first went in there I thought I'd come out a great evanglist or something (I was a dumb little kid at the time)

After years of torment and agony I finally began to fight back in 8th grade by poibnting out everything everyone did wrong.

Eventually after I was out my friend said he was out too so we talked about it, and strangely enough our experience there was the same, but we didn't notice because we were too busy defending our honor from their constant zenophobic cracks.

Okay, so you began to criticize a certain group of people...and you're shocked that they don't like you?? Oh yes, and you still are a little kid. And it's xenophobic.

It won't do anything to help against extremists. It will, however, help to prevent the students personally from being duped into the frame of mind.

Of course, ironically, the only kids who listen in RE class are those who're religious already.

1) True.
2) Heehee, that sounds like what would happen if religion was taught in the schools here...

Whats so wrong with war, there are several going on as we speak but we don't consider them wars. We kill each other in a many ways I'd rather people just hide in treches chucking grenades at each other thatn the stuff done today. Tolerance is whats messing us up. People aren't meant to mix in with each other, tolerance will only increase crime and immoralaty while reliosness will keep us moral. And war is better than having gansters kill each other on mainstreet, at least the person trying to kill you in uniform would fight under a rule book.
See people, the school isn't the problem. It's the kid.

Well can you provide a better explination of how the world got to the place it is today and be able to back it up with proof?

I'll point to Genesis Chapter 1.

It doesn't sound like his religion is keeping him particularly moral...

What about those on this thread who don't have Bibles?

I'll point to Genesis Chapter 1.

And how does that have more concrete proof then what evolutionary theory has?

Whats so wrong with war, there are several going on as we speak but we don't consider them wars. We kill each other in a many ways I'd rather people just hide in treches chucking grenades at each other thatn the stuff done today. Tolerance is whats messing us up. People aren't meant to mix in with each other, tolerance will only increase crime and immoralaty while reliosness will keep us moral. And war is better than having gansters kill each other on mainstreet, at least the person trying to kill you in uniform would fight under a rule book.

Whoa! Ack!

And no, it's not tolerance, it's suffering. Tolerating one another doesn't lead to fighting. Suffering one another does. When suffering something, eventually you crack and your real emotions come out. When tolerating, you're cool with it, not just putting on a front.

See people, the school isn't the problem. It's the kid.

I actually have to agree.

I'll point to Genesis Chapter 1.
No no no, he wants proof. Not a collection of ficticious stories. I say respectfully...honoring your beliefs.

It doesn't sound like his religion is keeping him particularly moral...

Well I know I can't stop killing so I'd prefer people do it more horably.

I assume you mean to say honourably, but I'm still not exactly sure what you are trying to say.

No no no, he wants proof. Not a collection of ficticious stories. I say respectfully...honoring your beliefs.

Well since I was not there when The Good Lord created our planet, I can not precisely show proof now can I?

Well can you provide a better explination of how the world got to the place it is today and be able to back it up with proof?
You can't prove past events. It's like trying to prove yesterday.

Anyway. Evolution as a biological phenomenon is no more forcefed than any other kind of education. It is taught as a model that effectively describes large-scale genetic inheritance. There is nothing wrong with the way it was discussed and presented.

Abiogenesis, in my education, was barely touched upon. In as much as it was, it was in speculative terms and we were made fully aware that it is merely an idea as to the origins of life. Again, it was taught exactly as it should have been.

Neither of these was "rammed down my throat" any more than mathematics or Shakespeare.

Well since I was not there when The Good Lord created our planet, I can not precisely show proof now can I?

Then why must we teach something as what happened when we can't prove or even undertake experiments to prove it?

The universe was actually created by the flying spaghetti monster, just so he could try prove he didn't

Well since I was not there when The Good Lord created our planet, I can not precisely show proof now can I?
Oh yes, there's a problem...a very big problem.

And how does that have more concrete proof then what evolutionary theory has?
Well If you think about it Genesis makes moresense with evoution in it. However I heard that one guy beleives God created man in His image but man sinned so they had to evolve and change form while God could stay the same.

I know God created man, but I was just wondering if what that guy said was far-fetched.

The universe was actually created by the flying spaghetti monster, just so he could try prove he didn't
hahaha, KoL

You can't prove past events. It's like trying to prove yesterday.

Anyway. Evolution as a biological phenomenon is no more forcefed than any other kind of education. It is taught as a model that effectively describes large-scale genetic inheritance. There is nothing wrong with the way it was discussed and presented.

Abiogenesis, in my education, was barely touched upon. In as much as it was, it was in speculative terms and we were made fully aware that it is merely an idea as to the origins of life. Again, it was taught exactly as it should have been.

Neither of these was "rammed down my throat" any more than mathematics or Shakespeare.

Heh frankly The Great Gatsby was forced upon me more then evolution ever was. CURSE YOU F. SCOTT FITZGERALD!

See people, the school isn't the problem. It's the kid.

Actually, it sounds more like the influence of society on his temperment. Think about it - if you were to spend a month where you were afraid that a lynch mob was about to attack you for your personal beliefs at any moment, you'd turn paranoid. So, is there any surprise that such a statement would come from someone who would be in a similar (but hardly the same) social environment for years? Sorry, but that means that the problem is the school, not him.

In which case, why is he in said school in the first place?

Well If you think about it Genesis makes moresense with evoution in it. However I heard that one guy beleives God created man in His image but man sinned so they had to evolve and change form while God could stay the same.

I know God created man, but I was just wondering if what that guy said was far-fetched.

I always looked at it as God creating man as he is - and man has the ability to evolve. So, clearly God created evolution. And think about it - that's a lot more spectacular than molding a thing out of clay, now, isn't it?

I think the one guy's thing is far-fetched. Way far-fetched.

I agree, it weakens the (already crippled) creationism arguement by trying to incorporate science

So Hellenville, you seem to be the type that goes with the majority.

Actually, it sounds more like the influence of society on his temperment. Think about it - if you were to spend a month where you were afraid that a lynch mob was about to attack you for your personal beliefs at any moment, you'd turn paranoid. So, is there any surprise that such a statement would come from someone who would be in a similar (but hardly the same) social environment for years? Sorry, but that means that the problem is the school, not him.
Can we agree that both of them have problems that compliment eachother?

Can we agree that both of them have problems that compliment eachother?

We can agree that the temperment and the society are not compatible. Which is pretty much what you said, except that it doesn't place blame onto either of them. That work?

So Hellenville, you seem to be the type that goes with the majority.
Hahaha. Actually I, in school was also the outcast kid. But I realized that they were retarded for some reason or another, found people with similar beliefs as me and hung out with them and am pretty happy. I honestly quit caring if people insulted me or whatever because I know I'm more awesome than them anyways. And why would you say I seem that way?

We can agree that the temperment and the society are not compatible. Which is pretty much what you said, except that it doesn't place blame onto either of them. That work?
Yes, well enough.

So Hellenville, you seem to be the type that goes with the majority.
Are you implying that you are the type that goes with the minority?

Hahaha. Actually I, in school was also the outcast kid. But I realized that they were retarded for some reason or another, found people with similar beliefs as me and hung out with them and am pretty happy. I honestly quit caring if people insulted me or whatever because I know I'm more awesome than them anyways. And why would you say I seem that way?

Wow, sounds a lot like my experiences!

Glad you can agree with my wording of the idea. :)

Hahaha. Actually I, in school was also the outcast kid. But I realized that they were retarded for some reason or another, found people with similar beliefs as me and hung out with them and am pretty happy. I honestly quit caring if people insulted me or whatever because I know I'm more awesome than them anyways. And why would you say I seem that way?

So if you did what I'm doing (with the whole finding people like me) how come you keep attacking me then?

She's 15 too. And ask my friend on Toori af shes brainwashed, he'll agree.

Sorry again for uneducated responses... I'm way behind you guys in here...
You're both 15, right? I remember when I was 15, it's not particularly long ago, at the time it seemed like everyone of a certain group had exactly the same views on literally EVERYTHING... I don't want to say you're wrong, because you could be, I know how easy it is to be manipulated into believing something, especially when you're young and quite open minded, however it could just be that she's following the social trends, not so much brainwashing as normal teenage behaviour?
Sorry if I'm being insensitive, I know you obviously believe what you say but there are always alternative possibilties.

I'm saying that I have my own view...and since they don't seem to coincide with SL's then he thinks I'm with the majority, against him. SL is again attacking people that think differently than he does...pattern?

So if you did what I'm doing (with the whole finding people like me) how come you keep attacking me then?
I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your hatred of others who aren't like you. In other words, you're intolerant, and I don't like that. I don't care whether you're the most popular kid or the most hated one, I still dislike your attitude.

I heard shooting them in the head works.
Try it while shouting 'this is gonna be just like DOOM!'

I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your hatred of others who aren't like you. In other words, you're intolerant, and I don't like that. I don't care whether you're the most popular kid or the most hated one, I still dislike your attitude.
I agree, you have a very fanatic tone

I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your hatred of others who aren't like you. In other words, you're intolerant, and I don't like that. I don't care whether you're the most popular kid or the most hated one, I still dislike your attitude.

She (I'm assuming she?) has a point there. Therapy. Definitely therapy. It'll help you not feel the pain that the whole experience caused. It'll take time, patience, and a hell of a lot of work (I had similar experiences - and it took all of that to get most of the pain gone) but it works really well, as long as you are open and trying. Plus, it will allow you to make a difference. Therapists often help you take charge of the problem and solve it, so it's the first step to the solution of whatever problems you need to fix from that school, whether inside yourself, or in the school itself.

Well she does do things self destructive. Heck I was somewhat terrified whenver in prayer requests she mentioned what happens with her siblings. brrrr. One has became a complete goth nad the other who is now grown up is constantly mugged my her drunk nieghbors.

What's wrong with goths? They're just another social group, from my experiences they're the most polite and decent on average too, but this is beside the point.
Being mugged by drunk neighbours is bad, but she could try moving to somewhere safe? I know it's not easy to move but it is totally possible.
Neither of these things consitute self destructive tendancies, they're just the circumstances within her immediate family.


...WHAT is wrong with goths? Sorry... it just bugs me when people see someone wearing black and think "eeeeeevil!!!!".... yes I wear black (sometimes)

Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound a tad brainwashed yourself there sl

Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound a tad brainwashed yourself there sl
Quite

Fine then, despite the fact I may disagree with other views alltogether I'll try to be less offensive in posting.

Is a Christian school a place for clicks?

Is a revered religion supposed to be use prophaganda to get their ends?

Should people be persecuted there whether they are conservative against baptism or not?

I'll let you guys decide.

I'll be right back in a few minutes, my mom wants me to help her buy groceries.

At least when I give my opinion I merely attack I don't try to convert one to my side. They want everyone to believe what they do.

Can you at least agree with me that these are wrong in a christian evironment?

I'd expect tolerable people to say yes because that would mean they would respect other religions and wouldn't want some greedy pen pusher to desacrate them.

I agree on the propghaganda part but I disagree with the athiesm part. Religion is what kept us in line many centurries ago and somehow now that we have technology we believe we're the center of the universe when we have these problems that our ancestors didn't. Maybe if people still respected God and acknowledged that science was a gift he gave to us we'd all live better lives.

Just a thought, not meant to offend anyone.

If it helps, I'm technically agnostic, I just don't care to argue the point anymore.
Relgion is good at keeping us "in line" so we can be the little foot soldiers of the bishop or other religious leader...
[SORRY! I don't mean to bring more religious debate to the topic but FUH???]
... isn't keeping people in line brainwashing, technically?... isn't this whole topic about brainwashing, technically?

We don't believe we're the centre of the universe, we're on the edge of an arm of a galaxy on the middle of what we can see of the universe..... it's in the middle of what we can see because of the speed of light, not our egos.

I respect existence... is that not a respect for god?
If science is a gift from God, why do you condemn it?

Fine then, despite the fact I may disagree with other views alltogether I'll try to be less offensive in posting.
Is a Christian school a place for clicks?
Is a revered religion supposed to be use prophaganda to get their ends?
Should people be persecuted there whether they are conservative against baptism or not?
I'll let you guys decide.
I'll be right back in a few minutes, my mom wants me to help her buy groceries.
At least when I give my opinion I merely attack I don't try to convert one to my side. They want everyone to believe what they do.
Can you at least agree with me that these are wrong in a christian evironment?
I'd expect tolerable people to say yes because that would mean they would respect other religions and wouldn't want some greedy pen pusher to desacrate them.
I'm in a christian school, and they tend to be private. At least in my case, because theres far less people in the school then a public school, my class is too small for cliques. However this is just my experience and doesn't really apply to larger christian private schools. My school is extremely relaxed regarding religion and no one takes it too seriously.
And a religion should NEVER use propaganda to acheive their aims. That implys a horrible condoscending god that has to trick you onto the "right" path. Do your own thing, don't ever let anyone tell you what to believe, spiritually or otherwise.

We can agree that the temperment and the society are not compatible. Which is pretty much what you said, except that it doesn't place blame onto either of them. That work?

Works for me.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound a tad brainwashed yourself there sl

He needs to talk to his minister about this hatred of baptists.

Hey guys,
I'm back.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound a tad brainwashed yourself there sl

According to the dictionary brainwash is only brainwash if you believe something just because your told to. I actually came to my beliefs independantly so I'n not so much as brainwashed just a pissed off conservative.

Well I know I can't stop killing so I'd prefer people do it more horably.

killing is never honorable

Hey guys,
I'm back.


According to the dictionary brainwash is only brainwash if you believe something just because your told to. I actually came to my beliefs independantly so I'n not so much as brainwashed just a pissed off conservative.

Or a pissed off brat who isn't fitting in because he hates baptists who are also his christian brothers and sisters.

Brats get whatever they want, I'm used to not getting everything I want so I think you misused the word "brat" And I didn't start hating them until they alienated me first, and the same goes for the other who hat baptsts that formerly went there.

Thanks for your support everyone, discussion closed

Brats get whatever they want, I'm used to not getting everything I want so I think you misused the word "brat" And I didn't start hating them until they alienated me first, and the same goes for the other who hat baptsts that formerly went there.

Thanks for your support everyone, discussion closed

You must've did something to alienate yourself.

You must've did something to alienate yourself.
Well, he is 15. Kids at that age tend to alienate others for the sheer purpose of doing so.

Well, he is 15. Kids at that age tend to alienate others for the sheer purpose of doing so.

Now that is true but still.... that isn't any reason to hate a group of people based on religious belief which is precisely what he has done which violates the Christian Faith.