NationStates Jolt Archive

In my opinion this doctor should be charged with malpractice.

A friend of mine has been having problems with cysts. Because of these cysts, which she keeps having removed, she has a problem with pain during sex. She discussed this with her doctor and he asked her if she was planning to have children in the very near future. When she said no, he said then she didn't need to worry about sex and did nothing to address the pain she has during sex.

Opinions.

Doctor needs to be forced to fuck a porcupine.

The doctor is an idiot. This is equivilant to me telling a doctor my arm hurts when I move it a certain way, only to be dismissed and told not to move it that way. Your friend needs a new doctor.

Get a second opinion. And make a complaint about the doctor, they're way out of line.

The doctor is an idiot. This is equivilant to me telling a doctor my arm hurts when I move it a certain way, only to be dismissed and told not to move it that way. Your friend needs a new doctor.

That's what I told her. Personally, I think she should report him to the AMA. He refused to do his job based on his opinion of her behavior. Honestly, if we let doctors continue to reject patients needs like this, what's next? Policemen? Firemen?

"Sorry, but you started the fire while smoking and we think smoking is wrong. You'll have to burn to death."

That's what I told her. Personally, I think she should report him to the AMA. He refused to do his job based on his opinion of her behavior. Honestly, if we let doctors continue to reject patients needs like this, what's next? Policemen? Firemen?

"Sorry, but you started the fire while smoking and we think smoking is wrong. You'll have to burn to death."

America eh? Tell her to get a lawyer too and sue the git.

I wonder if he's doing this because he doesn't agree with recreational sex or if he just wants less work?

"Sorry, but you started the fire while smoking and we think smoking is wrong. You'll have to burn to death."

Well...
If the fire started because they were smoking (how?), and they didn't even bother to try and put it out, and it ends up burning down their entire apartment complex...
If the patient contracts an STD because they were careless, and didn't bother to try and treat it, and manages to spread it to everyone close to them because they didn't bother disclose it...
In those situations, I'd have to go with: "Ya, your fault, pay the consequences."

But your friend's situation isn't remotely like that, so it's a null point.
The doctor, if I'm construing it correctly ("You shouldn't be having sex unless you want to have kids"), is completely out of line and should be reported.

Well...
If the fire started because they were smoking (how?), and they didn't even bother to try and put it out, and it ends up burning down their entire apartment complex...
If the patient contracts an STD because they were being stupid, and manage to spread it to everyone close to them because they didn't bother disclose it...
In those situations, I'd have to go with: "Ya, your fault, pay the consequences."

But your friend's situation isn't remotely like that, so it's a null point.

None of those things matter. It doesn't matter what you disagree with about a person's actions, people in certain services have an obligation to serve the public. Police, firefighters, docters, pharmacists, etc. Lives depend on them, and they shouldn't be able to play with people's lives because they don't like the person.

Even if a person has an STD they have been spreading for years, the doctor still has an obligation to cure it or treat it.

Well...
If the fire started because they were smoking (how?), and they didn't even bother to try and put it out, and it ends up burning down their entire apartment complex...
If the patient contracts an STD because they were being stupid, and manage to spread it to everyone close to them because they didn't bother disclose it...
In those situations, I'd have to go with: "Ya, your fault, pay the consequences."

But your friend's situation isn't remotely like that, so it's a null point.
Stupidity does not nullify ones right to medical treatment, nor should it, nor will it ever, hopefully.

America eh? Tell her to get a lawyer too and sue the git.

I wonder if he's doing this because he doesn't agree with recreational sex or if he just wants less work?

He told her sex if for making babies and that alone so until she was ready to have children she didn't need treatment.

Stupidity does not nullify ones right to medical treatment, nor should it, nor will it ever, hopefully.

Exactly. I don't believe in frivolous lawsuits but if a firefighter refused to save my sister because she started a fire by smoking and dropping the cigarette, I would own his ass.

Stupidity does not nullify ones right to medical treatment, nor should it, nor will it ever, hopefully.

And thus we destroy any hope for improving humanity. :(

In any event, my analogy was a tangential comment.
My main points were that such a comparison is unfair to the friend and that the doctor isn't doing his job properly.

My friend's doctor insisted on prescribing amoxicillin when she told him already several times she was allergic to it.

And thus we destroy any hope for improving humanity. :(

In any event, my analogy was a tangential comment.
My main points were that such a comparison is unfair to the friend and that the doctor isn't doing his job properly.
Yes, beacause allowing doctors to arbitrarily decide who deserves treatment and who doesn't will create a wonderful utopia.

Yes, beacause allowing doctors to arbitrarily decide who deserves treatment and who doesn't will create a wonderful utopia.

Fine, fine. I guess we'll have to diminish the world's population and increase the world's intelligence in a "nicer" yet far slower way. Yeesh.

No, because in a world where "triage" is taboo, I would skip over the 12 year old who drinks ethyl alcohol to get drunk, the 32 year old who can't read his own prescribed medicine, and the 40 year old with decade-old untreated syphilis, to save the 78 year old who managed to survive through a time when people weren't so sensitive to insensible behavior.

If we're really going to argue about "doctors and ethics" in a broad sense, then yes, I might argue that a doctor with a check list of "People Who Are Too Dumb To Save" would be nice to have, even if that means that a loved one or I could die because we make a "foolish mistake."
I have to disagree. It's a doctor's obligation to treat patients no matter how stupid they are. You'd throw mentally challenged people out on the streets to fend for themselves if they caught pneumonia? The doctor should treat patients in order of severity in a triage situation, not skip over the people who are 'less perfect'.

No, because in a world where "triage" is taboo, I would skip over the 12 year old who drinks ethyl alcohol to get drunk, the 32 year old who can't read his own prescribed medicine, and the 40 year old with decade-old untreated syphilis, to save the 78 year old who managed to survive through a time when people weren't so sensitive to insensible behavior.

If we're really going to argue about "doctors and ethics" in a broad sense, then yes, I might argue that a doctor with a check list of "People Who Are Too Dumb To Save" would be nice to have, even if that means that a loved one or I could die because we make a "foolish mistake."
I thought triage was used during emergency situations, doctors work with those who are most likely to survive, do the minimum to keep them alive and then move on. Things like comfort and bedside manner a thrown out the window.

In my opinion this doctor should be charged with malpractice.

A friend of mine has been having problems with cysts. Because of these cysts, which she keeps having removed, she has a problem with pain during sex. She discussed this with her doctor and he asked her if she was planning to have children in the very near future. When she said no, he said then she didn't need to worry about sex and did nothing to address the pain she has during sex.

Opinions.

I don't know about you, but to me, that sounds like it goes against the doctors hippocratic oath. IMO, it's time for your friend to "lawyer up".

I thought triage was used during emergency situations, doctors work with those who are most likely to survive, do the minimum to keep them alive and then move on. Things like comfort and bedside manner a thrown out the window.

I was considering the darker flipside.

We can't make everyone and everything happy all the time.

I don't know about you, but to me, that sounds like it goes against the doctors hippocratic oath. IMO, it's time for your friend to "lawyer up".
I swear by Apollo the physician, by Æsculapius, Hygeia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgement, the following Oath.

To consider dear to me as my parents him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and if necessary to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art if they so desire without fee or written promise; to impart to my sons and the sons of the master who taught me and the disciples who have enrolled themselves and have agreed to the rules of the profession, but to these alone the precepts and the instruction.

I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death.

Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.

But I will preserve the purity of my life and my art.

I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.

In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.

All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot
Huh, it's longer than I thought. And some of it is rather odd, sharing you're stuff with the guy who taught you :confused:

I'm not sure what does and does not count as malpractice, but doing that was definitely BS. At the very least, he should have referred her to another doctor, if he was going to be a jerk about it.

In my opinion this doctor should be charged with malpractice.

A friend of mine has been having problems with cysts. Because of these cysts, which she keeps having removed, she has a problem with pain during sex. She discussed this with her doctor and he asked her if she was planning to have children in the very near future. When she said no, he said then she didn't need to worry about sex and did nothing to address the pain she has during sex.

Opinions.

This is the problem with having a non-state health service. In this case because (as I understand it) America has a health system which is not directly accountable to the government, there is not as efficent a way to deal with him as there would be in the UK where doctors are given guidelines by the government and thus if they break them it is clear how she/he will be brought to account. Because however this is America, the health service works like any private business sector. The doctor can do what she/he likes and if people dont like it they simply stop going to see her/him. It however is proberbly much more complex than that and their most likly is a system to complain about him to someone (and I would advise you to do that) but I think that it would be better if the US had something like the NHS.

This is the problem with having a non-state health service. In this case because (as I understand it) America has a health system which is not directly accountable to the government, there is not as efficent a way to deal with him as there would be in the UK where doctors are given guidelines by the government and thus if they break them it is clear how she/he will be brought to account. Because however this is America, the health service works like any private business sector. The doctor can do what she/he likes and if people dont like it they simply stop going to see her/him. It however is proberbly much more complex than that and their most likly is a system to complain about him to someone (and I would advise you to do that) but I think that it would be better if the US had something like the NHS.

This isn't true. Doctors are required to adhere to a code of ethics as set by the AMA, as well as following federal and local guidelines. Nationalized healthcare is not necessary in order to control the misbehavior of doctors or other people who protect the well-being of the public.

And thus we destroy any hope for improving humanity. :(

In any event, my analogy was a tangential comment.
My main points were that such a comparison is unfair to the friend and that the doctor isn't doing his job properly.

And you want doctors to arbitrarily decide what 'improves' humanity? Considering they're equally likely to be the problem, I think I don't want such a thing to happen. Some would persecute anyone who was an unmarried person having sex. Some would persectute anyone looking to have an abortion. Some would persecute anyone who was injured doing anything they consider a sin. Thanks, but that's not a place I want to live.

There are a lot of factors going on here.

1. Is this doctor with an HMO? Insurance in general?

2. Is this doctor operating a private practice?

A doctor who behaves in this manner is within his rights, but your friend is within her rights to take a big shit on his head. Contact any superiors, insurance agencies he is associated with, women's groups. A doctor cannot do shit like this without opening himself up for horrible reprecussions.

What is the doctor's name?

There are a lot of factors going on here.

1. Is this doctor with an HMO? Insurance in general?

2. Is this doctor operating a private practice?

A doctor who behaves in this manner is within his rights, but your friend is within her rights to take a big shit on his head. Contact any superiors, insurance agencies he is associated with, women's groups. A doctor cannot do shit like this without opening himself up for horrible reprecussions.

What is the doctor's name?

I wish I knew. I would absolutely post it. And he is required to operate within guidelines. He denied her treatment and did not refer her elsewhere. Again, what if policemen and firemen started doing such a thing?

This isn't true. Doctors are required to adhere to a code of ethics as set by the AMA, as well as following federal and local guidelines. Nationalized healthcare is not necessary in order to control the misbehavior of doctors or other people who protect the well-being of the public.

Not a nessecity, but it does make it work better.

The problem with the American system is it is a mixture between the two (IE Public/Private health) and thus the authority lines/responsablity lines etc are more confused. Add to that the fact that your in a fedural system of goverment and everyone is confused.

I wish I knew. I would absolutely post it. And he is required to operate within guidelines. He denied her treatment and did not refer her elsewhere. Again, what if policemen and firemen started doing such a thing?

It depends on whether a doctor can be considered a public servant or a private entrepreneur, there are a lot of factors.

We went down this road in the morning-after pill thread, and I am not particularly enthusiastic about going down it again.

Your friend should file a complaint against this doctor with the AMA and her state's health department. If she was referred to this doctor by an HMO or insurance plan, she should demand referral to another doctor immediately, and tell them why. Your friend should also consult a lawyer.

This doctor refused to treat cysts. Untreated cysts can lead to other, much more dangerous conditions, from internal infections to cancer. This doctor's behavior is outrageous.

In my opinion this doctor should be charged with malpractice.

A friend of mine has been having problems with cysts. Because of these cysts, which she keeps having removed, she has a problem with pain during sex. She discussed this with her doctor and he asked her if she was planning to have children in the very near future. When she said no, he said then she didn't need to worry about sex and did nothing to address the pain she has during sex.

Opinions.

She should get another doctor if her confidence in this one is spent, and she should tell this doctor that she felt belittled by that comment and that she is more than an incubator, that she has sex for pleasure much, much, much more often than to make babies.

Charge him for malpractice? I doubt it needs to go that far, or that the charge would stick at all. Just talk to him/her. Things like these can be easily resolved through dialogue.

I seem to remember that the purpose of medicine is - in general - to improve the quality of life, not increase the quantity.

I guess he's lost sight of that.

Yah, anyway, he should get a malpractice thing. He's a douche.

She should get another doctor if her confidence in this one is spent, and she should tell this doctor that she felt belittled by that comment and that she is more than an incubator, that she has sex for pleasure much, much, much more often than to make babies.

Charge him for malpractice? I doubt it needs to go that far, or that the charge would stick at all. Just talk to him/her. Things like these can be easily resolved through dialogue.
Heh. :) This story is happening in the US. The road to litigation is a lot shorter here than in Europe. Leaving that aside, she doesn't need to resolve anything with this doctor, she just needs to replace him with a better one and make sure the appropriate authorities are informed about his breach of professional ethics.

BTW, for those who are curious, here's a quick rundown about ovarian cysts:
http://www.4woman.gov/faq/ovarian_cysts.htm

I don't know if this is what Jocabia's friend has, but it is a common condition. It's what most of the women I know mean when they talk about cysts. As indicated in the outline, all kinds of ovarian cysts can cause pain during sex and menstruation. They also present a risk of internal infection -- those are the symptoms in the box under "get help."

I mentioned cancer although this points out that the common kinds of cysts don't cause cancer. I double checked my memory -- what happened was that my mom was experiencing pain during menstruation and was misdiagnosed twice -- once as having a urinary tract infection and next as having ovarian cysts. What she in fact had was an abdominal infection caused by cervical cancer. She got surgery just in time and has been perfectly healthy since then. If she had not sought a third opinion, she would have died.

By refusing to treat a painful condition, the doctor in Jocabia's story is not only making a moralistic judgment about his patient, he is also making an assumption about what is causing the pain that puts his patient's life at risk.

Even just by refusing to treat pain, he is violating his ethic. If doctors can do nothing else, they can at least try to alleviate pain. What excuse can he possibly have for refusing?

Heh. :) This story is happening in the US. The road to litigation is a lot shorter here than in Europe. Leaving that aside, she doesn't need to resolve anything with this doctor, she just needs to replace him with a better one and make sure the appropriate authorities are informed about his breach of professional ethics.

Be that as it may, litigation and charges are to be used as a last resort, when other venues have been exhausted.

I had a patient once who came in with her daughters. She suspected they had strep throat and wanted them checked out. As I was asking about their symptoms, the mother suddenly got terribly upset, told me "she didn't like my tone" and left the office. I was perplexed and later during the day had a nurse call her and tell her that if she still wanted her daughters checked out, she was free to return. She did, fortunately, and this time we talked - she and I without the daughters present. Turns out the mother had fibromyalgia and had had bad experiences with doctors questioning symptoms before, and she had gotten the idea that I, for whatever reason, doubted her when it came to her daughters like the other doctors had doubted her, and that she didn't want to stand for it when I could just run a swab and see if they had strep throat. I explained to her that I needed to know the symptoms so as to be able to evaluate the results of the swab, and that I did not mean to insinuate in any sense that I doubted that her daughters were ill. We also talked about other problems in her life that she needed talking about herself.

So, we went from a terribly upset woman, and a perplexed doctor, to a woman who got an opportunity to talk about her frustrations and a doctor who better understood what had gone wrong and could think of maybe altering the way he asks about symptoms in the future.

What would have happened if she had complained to authorities? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I would have remained ignorant of her motives, and she would have had to spend time doing the unnecessary, thinking I was some kind of douche.

So, while the doctor in this case certainly from our point of view sounds like a douche, it doesn't have to mean that he is and that this can't be resolved easily.

Oh, the daughters got their swabs and didn't have strep throat, something the symptoms alone told me, but the swab was more for the mother than for me.

I don't think it's so much malpractice as "shopping for a new doctor" time.

Malpractice is like when my daughter's doctor lied to me about the results of a test she had, or when my doctor (when I was a child) told my mom I was "faking pain" to get out of school when actually I had ripped the ligament in my knee.

however, you need to remind her friend that her doctor works for her, if she isn't happy with the service she needs to shop around for a new one.

And you want doctors to arbitrarily decide what 'improves' humanity? Considering they're equally likely to be the problem, I think I don't want such a thing to happen. Some would persecute anyone who was an unmarried person having sex. Some would persectute anyone looking to have an abortion. Some would persecute anyone who was injured doing anything they consider a sin. Thanks, but that's not a place I want to live.

Once again, it was a comment consistent with the cliche remark "I'm not for killing idiots, just removing safety labels and letting nature take its course."
There is no bias in that. Stupid people who do stupid things come in all forms.

Be that as it may, litigation and charges are to be used as a last resort, when other venues have been exhausted.
I'm not advising her to sue, but I think she should consult a lawyer to make sure she knows what her rights are, with the doctor, with her insurer, etc., just in case.

I had a patient once who came in with her daughters. <snip>
This is all very true, or course. I have never had a bad experience with a doctor personally (possibly because I almost never go to one), but many people I know have had bad experiences ranging from simple misunderstandings such as you describe to dangerous misdiagnoses, as in my mother's case. I tend to take the view that my health is more important than my relationship with the doctor. If I don't like the way my case is being handled, I will seek another opinion. I am fortunate that I have not had painful cysts so far in my life, but if I did, and all I wanted was simple pain medication for a chronic condition, and the doctor gave me any kind of an argument about it that was not a medical one, there would be no worrying about whether I misunderstood him. He would lose me as his patient. End of discussion.

You and I can agree that the doctor in Jocabia's story is a douche of the first order. The particular attitude he copped was not just an attitude that her pain isn't so bad or she takes too many meds or something similar. It was judgment about her lifestyle that had nothing to do with medicine but was still affecting how he treated her. That is where the violation is, in my opinion.

What would have happened if she had complained to authorities? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Here here. I change my suggestion.
Talk to the doctor, make sure that he's being a prejudicial dick that won't take care of your friend because of his religious beliefs, and THEN report him.

He would lose me as his patient. End of discussion.

You and I can agree that the doctor in Jocabia's story is a douche of the first order. The particular attitude he copped was not just an attitude that her pain isn't so bad or she takes too many meds or something similar. It was judgment about her lifestyle that had nothing to do with medicine but was still affecting how he treated her. That is where the violation is, in my opinion.

Nevermind. I wouldn't let the guy weasel out of me dropping him.

He told her sex if for making babies and that alone so until she was ready to have children she didn't need treatment.
When I was in labor with my first child (for 65 hours) the subject of a possible c-section was brought up (by me) and my husband asked my obgyn if I had a c-section if I would have to have them with the rest of my pregnancies... she said "most intelligent people know you should only have one child", I don't really know if she was kidding or not, but it pissed me off (not that I was in the best mood to begin with, being 64 hours into labor with no drugs at that point) so I kicked her out of my room, fired her, and made hubby find me a new doctor. ;)

Originally Posted by Fass
What would have happened if she had complained to authorities? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Here here. I change my suggestion.
Talk to the doctor, make sure that he's being a prejudicial dick that won't take care of your friend because of his religious beliefs, and THEN report him.
Getting something to happen is not the point of filing a report, unless you are already filing a lawsuit as well. The point of filing a report with the AMA and the insurer the doctor contracts with is the same as filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. It creates or adds to a paper trail of complaints against this doctor. A few isolated complaints that don't go anywhere are not going to lead to any action against him. But if he does this a lot, and a lot of people make the same complaints against him over time, then the insurer will eventually drop him from their plan, and he may lose privileges to practice at his area hospital if he's in private practice, or lose a hospital job if he's on staff. One complaint won't make anything happen, but 50 similar complaints may. And if he gets 50 complaints, then it's not a misunderstanding.

Jocabia's friend should file a complaint not for her own sake but for everyone else's.

<snip>
Nevermind. I wouldn't let the guy weasel out of me dropping him.
In my case, he probably wouldn't even know why I dropped him. His office would simply be instructed to forward my information to another doctor. He might pick up a hint if I happend to call him a turd to his face as I left his office the last time I saw him... Oh, and when he received a copy of the complaint I would file against him.

Malpractice is like when my daughter's doctor lied to me about the results of a test she had, or when my doctor (when I was a child) told my mom I was "faking pain" to get out of school when actually I had ripped the ligament in my knee.

It's been my experience that doctors are notorious about dismissing pain. This is particularly so in children. When I was 13, I was having severe neck pain. It was so bad I couldn't sleep. All I could do was curl into a ball and scream all night. This lead to several trips to the emergency room where the doctors would just patronize me, prescribe some muscle relaxants and send me home. Then one afternoon I woke up paralyzed from the neck down with a 104 degree temp. After spending two weeks in the hospital and subjected to all manner of tests and hostility of the medical staff, they still couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. So my doctor decided it was all in my head and tried to send me home despite the fact I was still in horiffic pain and paralyzed. Needless to say, my parents weren't going for it. They finally discoverd I had a tumor growing inside of my spinal cord. And even then, my doctor couldn't be botherd to apologise for his mistake.

Over the last 23 years doctors still would dismiss my pain. I went for many years without any type of pain management because doctors thought I was too young for it or that it couldn't really be that bad.

Experience has taught me that there is very little you can do when your doctor is a dick. All you can really do is fire him and move on to another doctor. It is almost impossible to punish a bad doctor in the US. And it's getting harder with all of this irresponsible tort reform. On those rare occasions that one has his licence pulled, he can just move to one of his neighboring states, get certified there, and go on practicing medicine with no real disruption to his life. There is *no* federal regulation of doctors here. The AMA is a voluntary orginization with no power to do anything to it's members. Hell, many doctors don't even belong to it. *sigh*

It's been my experience that doctors are notorious about dismissing pain. This is particularly so in children. When I was 13, I was having severe neck pain. It was so bad I couldn't sleep. All I could do was curl into a ball and scream all night. This lead to several trips to the emergency room where the doctors would just patronize me, prescribe some muscle relaxants and send me home. Then one afternoon I woke up papalyzed from the neck down with a 104 degree temp. After spending two weeks in the hospital and subjected to all manner of tests and hostility of the medical staff, they still couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. So my doctor decided it was all in my head and tried to send me home despite the fact I was still in horiffic pain and paralyzed. Needless to say, my parents weren't going for it. They finally discoverd I had a tumor growing inside of my spinal cord. And even then, my doctor couldn't be botherd to apologise for his mistake.

Over the last 23 years doctors still would dismiss my pain. I went for many years without any type of pain management because doctors thought I was too young for it or that it couldn't really be that bad.

Experience has taught me that there is very little you can do when your doctor is a dick. All you can really do is fire him and move on to another doctor. It is almost impossible to punish a bad doctor in the US. And it's getting harder with all of this irresponsible tort reform. On those rare occasions that one has his licence pulled, he can just move to one of his neighboring states, get certified there, and go on practicing medicine with no real disruption to his life. There is *no* federal regulation of doctors here. The AMA is a voluntary orginization with no power to do anything to it's members. Hell, many doctors don't even belong to it. *sigh*
Apparently things are even worse than I thought. This sucks.

When I was in labor with my first child (for 65 hours) the subject of a possible c-section was brought up (by me) and my husband asked my obgyn if I had a c-section if I would have to have them with the rest of my pregnancies... she said "most intelligent people know you should only have one child", I don't really know if she was kidding or not, but it pissed me off (not that I was in the best mood to begin with, being 64 hours into labor with no drugs at that point) so I kicked her out of my room, fired her, and made hubby find me a new doctor. ;)
65 HOURS!!! :eek: And you had more!! Are you crazy -- or Super Woman?! Either way, I salute you. You are a better [woman] than I am, Gunga-Din.

65 HOURS!!! :eek: And you had more!! Are you crazy -- or Super Woman?! Either way, I salute you. You are a better [woman] than I am, Gunga-Din.
It probably would have been longer if I wouldn't have fired my doctor, I asked for a c-section and she gave me some crap line about "wanting to give me a good trial of labor" like 64 hours wasn't long enough, then she made the 'most intelligent people' comment and I fired her, hubby had me a new doctor in about 20 minutes and then in about 45 they had the surgery room ready.
yeah, about an hour after I came out of surgery (for the c-section) I had kinda forgotten about all the pain, mostly I was just hungry.* My husband joking said "do you want to have another one?" and I said "sure" he almost collapsed LOL


*because they didn't let me eat or drink during labor, and then didn't let me eat anything for 2 days after because I hadn't had a BM and they didn't know if my bowels were working (like I could poop after not eating anything for 4 days, what did they think poop was made of?!) sorry, still mad about that, anyway hubby snuck me some crackers on the 2nd day and so that was nice.

It probably would have been longer if I wouldn't have fired my doctor, I asked for a c-section and she gave me some crap line about "wanting to give me a good trial of labor" like 64 hours wasn't long enough, then she made the 'most intelligent people' comment and I fired her, hubby had me a new doctor in about 20 minutes and then in about 45 they had the surgery room ready.
yeah, about an hour after I came out of surgery (for the c-section) I had kinda forgotten about all the pain, mostly I was just hungry.* My husband joking said "do you want to have another one?" and I said "sure" he almost collapsed LOL


*because they didn't let me eat or drink during labor, and then didn't let me eat anything for 2 days after because I hadn't had a BM and they didn't know if my bowels were working (like I could poop after not eating anything for 4 days, what did they think poop was made of?!) sorry, still mad about that, anyway hubby snuck me some crackers on the 2nd day and so that was nice.
oooohh...aaaagghgh....just thinking about it .... aaghghghg...*writhes on floor, clutching various body parts* Where's my menopause, goddammit? Oh, the horror.......*assumes fetal position, then jumps out of it, realizing nightmarish association*

Yep, this actually is 30% of the reason why I decided not to have kids of my own. The rest breaks down as 50% over-population and 20% my family are insane. Yep, I'm planning on adopting. That's one job I don't feel guilty letting someone else do for me. *shudder*

I visited a doctor to get a presecription for the pill shortly (a few months) after I became sexually active. He told me that while I was there he would perform a pap smear on me too. Fortunantly for me, I was aware that these aren't done until about two years after becoming sexually active, and I refused.

I was later told by another (female) doctor in the same clinic that this doctor had a perchant for performing these tests, and that when I really did need one, I was to come back to her or another female doctor.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Detection/Pap-test

I don't ever do this, but I'm going to hype this other thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=481337) (yes, of mine--I am suitably ashamed) that's dealing with similar subjects.

As to this doctor, I agree with Murayvets that this patient needs to file a complaint with as many groups as she can, if only to help flesh out a paper trail for future patients who may have similar difficulties.

Heh. :) This story is happening in the US. The road to litigation is a lot shorter here than in Europe. Leaving that aside, she doesn't need to resolve anything with this doctor, she just needs to replace him with a better one and make sure the appropriate authorities are informed about his breach of professional ethics.

BTW, for those who are curious, here's a quick rundown about ovarian cysts:
http://www.4woman.gov/faq/ovarian_cysts.htm

I don't know if this is what Jocabia's friend has, but it is a common condition. It's what most of the women I know mean when they talk about cysts. As indicated in the outline, all kinds of ovarian cysts can cause pain during sex and menstruation. They also present a risk of internal infection -- those are the symptoms in the box under "get help."

I mentioned cancer although this points out that the common kinds of cysts don't cause cancer. I double checked my memory -- what happened was that my mom was experiencing pain during menstruation and was misdiagnosed twice -- once as having a urinary tract infection and next as having ovarian cysts. What she in fact had was an abdominal infection caused by cervical cancer. She got surgery just in time and has been perfectly healthy since then. If she had not sought a third opinion, she would have died.

By refusing to treat a painful condition, the doctor in Jocabia's story is not only making a moralistic judgment about his patient, he is also making an assumption about what is causing the pain that puts his patient's life at risk.

Even just by refusing to treat pain, he is violating his ethic. If doctors can do nothing else, they can at least try to alleviate pain. What excuse can he possibly have for refusing?
She has ovarian cysts. You are correct. Now as far as treating it, from what I got from her he is treating the cysts but the pain during sex persists and he refused to address it.

She has ovarian cysts. You are correct. Now as far as treating it, from what I got from her he is treating the cysts but the pain during sex persists and he refused to address it.
not to get too much into your friends business, but do you think he has checked her out any further than the cysts? I have a friend who has them and also endometriosis, which can also cause painful intercourse, she has told me that it's pretty common in her family to have more than one problem in the reproductive area.

not to get too much into your friends business, but do you think he has checked her out any further than the cysts? I have a friend who has them and also endometriosis, which can also cause painful intercourse, she has told me that it's pretty common in her family to have more than one problem in the reproductive area.
Yeah, I don't know. I was going to talk to her about it further. I only know what I've told you guys. We're not incredibly close and I was talking to her at an engineering symposium so I couldn't really delve into the details without getting interrupted.

Reminds me of Catholic doctors refusing to prescribe the pill.. Mmm.

not to get too much into your friends business, but do you think he has checked her out any further than the cysts? I have a friend who has them and also endometriosis, which can also cause painful intercourse, she has told me that it's pretty common in her family to have more than one problem in the reproductive area.
My gf and her mother have endometriosis and they both find it terrible. However, ahem, there's no problem with intercourse for my gf.

My gf and her mother have endometriosis and they both find it terrible. However, ahem, there's no problem with intercourse for my gf.
I suppose it depends on the severity of it. I know a few people who have "problems" with intercourse that have endometriosis. (http://www.endometriosisassn.org/endo.html)

I suppose it depends on the severity of it. I know a few people who have "problems" with intercourse that have endometriosis. (http://www.endometriosisassn.org/endo.html)

That is very helpful.

I visited a doctor to get a presecription for the pill shortly (a few months) after I became sexually active. He told me that while I was there he would perform a pap smear on me too. Fortunantly for me, I was aware that these aren't done until about two years after becoming sexually active, and I refused.

Actually, doctors generally want to do a pap once a year once you get on the pill, and most won't prescribe it until you've had one. The only reason I was able to get a prescription for it before getting a pap was the fact that I knew the doctor prescribing it for me. And after a year, even though I was not yet sexually active, she was adamant that I get a pap.

A lot of it has to do with possible side-effects of the pill itself.

Now, as for just becoming sexually active and immediately wanting to do a pap, I'm not sure about that. It could have been a precautionary thing, or the doctor could have been prompting you to do an unecessary procedure. At the very least, I would hope that they did some sort of exam or pregnancy test, as a woman who is pregnant (at least if she decides to keep the baby) shouldn't be on the pill. Again, most doctors won't prescribe the pill without at least a preliminary pelvic exam.

In my opinion this doctor should be charged with malpractice.

A friend of mine has been having problems with cysts. Because of these cysts, which she keeps having removed, she has a problem with pain during sex. She discussed this with her doctor and he asked her if she was planning to have children in the very near future. When she said no, he said then she didn't need to worry about sex and did nothing to address the pain she has during sex.

Opinions.

And she didn't grab him by the testicles, say "fuck you old man - how long has it been since YOU had sex? Are YOU planning on having any children in the near future? Fuck you if you can't get your skanky wife to let you mount her - it's no wonder" then pullhis nutsack down to his knees.

THAT would have been the socially acceptable response. :)

In my opinion this doctor should be charged with malpractice.

A friend of mine has been having problems with cysts. Because of these cysts, which she keeps having removed, she has a problem with pain during sex. She discussed this with her doctor and he asked her if she was planning to have children in the very near future. When she said no, he said then she didn't need to worry about sex and did nothing to address the pain she has during sex.

Opinions.

And she didn't grab him by the testicles, say "fuck you old man - how long has it been since YOU had sex? Are YOU planning on having any children in the near future? Fuck you if you can't get your skanky wife to let you mount her - it's no wonder" then pullhis nutsack down to his knees.

THAT would have been the socially acceptable response. :)

In my opinion this doctor should be charged with malpractice.

A friend of mine has been having problems with cysts. Because of these cysts, which she keeps having removed, she has a problem with pain during sex. She discussed this with her doctor and he asked her if she was planning to have children in the very near future. When she said no, he said then she didn't need to worry about sex and did nothing to address the pain she has during sex.

Opinions.

And she didn't grab him by the testicles, say "fuck you old man - how long has it been since YOU had sex? Are YOU planning on having any children in the near future? Fuck you if you can't get your skanky wife to let you mount her - it's no wonder" then pullhis nutsack down to his knees.

THAT would have been the socially acceptable response. :)

(I'll be glad to go back to see him with her and lend 'moral support' (and a wrench) (edit: to beat him with!)

And she didn't grab him by the testicles, say "fuck you old man - how long has it been since YOU had sex? Are YOU planning on having any children in the near future? Fuck you if you can't get your skanky wife to let you mount her - it's no wonder" then pullhis nutsack down to his knees.

THAT would have been the socially acceptable response. :)

(I'll be glad to go back to see him with her and lend 'moral support' (and a wrench)

So nice you said it thrice.

It's been my experience that doctors are notorious about dismissing pain. This is particularly so in children. When I was 13, I was having severe neck pain. It was so bad I couldn't sleep. All I could do was curl into a ball and scream all night. This lead to several trips to the emergency room where the doctors would just patronize me, prescribe some muscle relaxants and send me home. Then one afternoon I woke up paralyzed from the neck down with a 104 degree temp. After spending two weeks in the hospital and subjected to all manner of tests and hostility of the medical staff, they still couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. So my doctor decided it was all in my head and tried to send me home despite the fact I was still in horiffic pain and paralyzed. Needless to say, my parents weren't going for it. They finally discoverd I had a tumor growing inside of my spinal cord. And even then, my doctor couldn't be botherd to apologise for his mistake.

Over the last 23 years doctors still would dismiss my pain. I went for many years without any type of pain management because doctors thought I was too young for it or that it couldn't really be that bad.

Experience has taught me that there is very little you can do when your doctor is a dick. All you can really do is fire him and move on to another doctor. It is almost impossible to punish a bad doctor in the US. And it's getting harder with all of this irresponsible tort reform. On those rare occasions that one has his licence pulled, he can just move to one of his neighboring states, get certified there, and go on practicing medicine with no real disruption to his life. There is *no* federal regulation of doctors here. The AMA is a voluntary orginization with no power to do anything to it's members. Hell, many doctors don't even belong to it. *sigh*

I would say it's a good deal worse than that. One of the few ways you can lose your liscence in the US is to prescribe sufficient pain medication for your patients, because the Federal Government will assume that the doctor is simply facilitating Vicodin addictions. If the Fed's get involved, they will make a doctor lose his liscence, and permanently. As such, there are some pretty strong incentives to dismiss a person's pain, and very few to actually be compassionate.

Originally Posted by Jocabia
She has ovarian cysts. You are correct. Now as far as treating it, from what I got from her he is treating the cysts but the pain during sex persists and he refused to address it.
not to get too much into your friends business, but do you think he has checked her out any further than the cysts? I have a friend who has them and also endometriosis, which can also cause painful intercourse, she has told me that it's pretty common in her family to have more than one problem in the reproductive area.
This was my point exactly. There are several conditions that can cause pain during sex or menstruation including life-threatening infections and cancer. For a doctor to just dismiss a report of pain like that is unforgiveable.

Btw, Smunkee, I told your labor-horror story to my mom, and she was just as shocked as me. She said hospitals never allow a labor to continue so long because the placenta can become separated before the baby is born and this can kill the baby. Plus there's the risk of injury to the mother. It's just outrageous. I don't even know you, and the story is long over, but I'm still outraged about it. I mean, DAMN! What's the point of having a hospital if you're left on your own like that? You might as well have gone out on the prairie in a covered wagon to give birth. For free, I might add.

hey, lets leave firefighters out of this. Most of us are good people who happen to have a penchant for fire... and breaking stuff... but thats not the point.

One of the problems in america is that people are more apt to think of a Doctor as being some uberman who knows exactly what they are doing all the time. If any of you get a chance, study the sociology of medicine; the way doctors (called alopaths by some) got to the position they are in is borderline witch craft.

Btw, Smunkee, I told your labor-horror story to my mom, and she was just as shocked as me. She said hospitals never allow a labor to continue so long because the placenta can become separated before the baby is born and this can kill the baby. Plus there's the risk of injury to the mother. It's just outrageous. I don't even know you, and the story is long over, but I'm still outraged about it. I mean, DAMN! What's the point of having a hospital if you're left on your own like that? You might as well have gone out on the prairie in a covered wagon to give birth. For free, I might add.

Yeah, they were trying to induce because I kept having contractions and my blood pressure was high, the nurses wouldn't let me eat because they were afraid that they might have to rush me into emergency surgery, the doctor wouldn't let me have pain medication because she thought it would "slow" my contractions, and she wouldn't take me into surgery because she said that I didn't have a good "trial of labor" and that she felt that c-sections were overused, and should only be done in a life or death situation. Looking back I think she was trying to kill me. After I fired her the nurses seemed so relieved , they said they were afraid that I was going to have complications or that I was going to go into a coma because of my blood pressure (at one point my bottom number that when I am not pregnant sits around 60 was 150) We found out that she had already had a lot of complaints. I suppose it taught me to call the AMA before I go see anyone about anything.

One of the problems in america is that people are more apt to think of a Doctor as being some uberman who knows exactly what they are doing all the time. If any of you get a chance, study the sociology of medicine; the way doctors (called alopaths by some) got to the position they are in is borderline witch craft.
And yet at the same time from my observations, being the son of two doctors and spending hours at their offices, that people in this country are actually less respectful of doctors then people from other countries and many drive them to the brink of insanity through constant harassment because of hypochondria. Coupled with their overly high expectations, you get a very difficult patient population to deal with (not totally, of course), which leads to the US having a HUGE number of frivilous malpractice suits every year. Of course, the horror stories on this thread are inexcusable, but people often forget in these cases that many doctors do their job and genuinely are interested in helping.

He told her sex if for making babies and that alone so until she was ready to have children she didn't need treatment.

A real life qualified medical Doctor actually said that?

Firstly, your friend needs to seek a second opinion, and change her Dr.
I would also make a written complaint to the local health authority (if it was in the UK, or the equivalent elsewhere) This man seems to be working with some kind of agenda, probably a fundamentalist one, and if this is his opinion on sex, what are his opinions on other things? Will he prescribe birth control? Will he treat sexually transmitted disease or does he think it is a punishment? This man is clearly a whack-job and should NOT be practising.

And yet at the same time from my observations, being the son of two doctors and spending hours at their offices, that people in this country are actually less respectful of doctors then people from other countries and many drive them to the brink of insanity through constant harassment because of hypochondria. Coupled with their overly high expectations, you get a very difficult patient population to deal with (not totally, of course), which leads to the US having a HUGE number of frivilous malpractice suits every year. Of course, the horror stories on this thread are inexcusable, but people often forget in these cases that many doctors do their job and genuinely are interested in helping.

I agree that is a problem as well, but not what we are addressing. I used to hang out in hospitals. Patients are a mixture of people who want help for nothing and people who act like the axe in their head isn't really a big deal. It's a hard job that demands a lot. I respect doctors immensely and most people I know do so as well. This does not give them the right to pass judgement on the lives of their patients.

I agree that is a problem as well, but not what we are addressing. I used to hang out in hospitals. Patients are a mixture of people who want help for nothing and people who act like the axe in their head isn't really a big deal. It's a hard job that demands a lot. I respect doctors immensely and most people I know do so as well. This does not give them the right to pass judgement on the lives of their patients.
Passing judgement on your patient is considered unethical by most doctors' codes of conduct.

Passing judgement on your patient is considered unethical by most doctors' codes of conduct.

Agreed. I wish those doctors would stand up and drum out those that don't follow that code of conduct.

Do no harm!

Yeah, they were trying to induce because I kept having contractions and my blood pressure was high, the nurses wouldn't let me eat because they were afraid that they might have to rush me into emergency surgery, the doctor wouldn't let me have pain medication because she thought it would "slow" my contractions, and she wouldn't take me into surgery because she said that I didn't have a good "trial of labor" and that she felt that c-sections were overused, and should only be done in a life or death situation. Looking back I think she was trying to kill me. After I fired her the nurses seemed so relieved , they said they were afraid that I was going to have complications or that I was going to go into a coma because of my blood pressure (at one point my bottom number that when I am not pregnant sits around 60 was 150) We found out that she had already had a lot of complaints. I suppose it taught me to call the AMA before I go see anyone about anything.
Wow. Just --- wow.

That "trial of labor" thing sounds like she has some weird-ass philosophy or extremist belief system.