NationStates Jolt Archive

...or should everybody shut up and do as they're told?

After all, your superior is your better, therefor he/she is your superior. Those who have an opinion should just wait until they are superior themselves, before airing that opinion. Like when people disapprove of their government, they should just vote it away. Between elections they should give the government a break. How about that?

If you believe that something is wrong, then voice your opinion.

Hmm...

*rubs chin thoughtfully*

Nah. :)

I'm gonna make an educated guess here, and say:
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

It's our right as Americans to be able to question our government and hold them accountable.

Continuously.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

- Edmund Burke

I'm gonna make an educated guess here, and say:
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

...

This is not trolling in any way, shape or form, little one.

Authority should always be questioned. The more authority a person assumes, the more he should be questioned. When Bush made his "political capital" statement, we would have been wise to impeach him right there.

I'm gonna make an educated guess here, and say:
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!
How is this trolling?:confused:

If we don't question or hold our leaders accountable, then who will stop them? What will stop them from taking more and more power?

*rubs chin thoughtfully too*

*shoots everyone with paintballs*

...

This is not trolling in any way, shape or form, little one.

Sheni was being a hypocrite. Don't feed it.

*rubs chin thoughtfully too*

*shoots everyone with paintballs*

*gets bruised*

*questions IL Ruffino's authority to shoot everyone with paintballs*

*shoots back*

If we don't question or hold our leaders accountable, then who will stop them? What will stop them from taking more and more power?
:eek:

Have a cookie.

Is it chocolate chip? They are my favorite :D

Authority should always be questioned. After all, in the real world the concept of "Better" is unrealistic. More capable of taking power, perhaps, but that doesn't make someone better, just better at certain skills.

Besides which, the basis of authority is the threat of violence. Allowing yourself to be cowed into silence by threat of force is normally referred to as cowardice.

...or should everybody shut up and do as they're told?


:rolleyes:

Only an idiot accepts authority without considering what said authority demands of them. I am not saying to rebel against authority for the sake of rebellion, but if something doesn't strike you as right, speak up rather than baaaaaing.

:rolleyes:

Only an idiot accepts authority without considering what said authority demands of them. I am not saying to rebel against authority for the sake of rebellion, but if something doesn't strike you as right, speak up rather than baaaaaing.

Exactly, there is our problems... there are just far too many sheeple out there.

Damnit!!! *Retaliates by shooting IL Ruffino in the ass with a paintball gun*

always question authoreity

I say rebel for the sake of rebelling.

*shoots Katganistan with paintball gun*

Viva la Revolucion!

Authority shouldn't simply be questioned but actively denounced.

.................
Besides which, the basis of authority is the threat of violence. Allowing yourself to be cowed into silence by threat of force is normally referred to as cowardice.Cowardice being the opposite of treason? What about patriotism?

My favorite is Peta at thier peta2 boards for kids.

Question Authority... But you will be banned for questioning ours.

If no one questions authority, you certainly end up with a very boring and stagnant social environment.

I believe this with all my heart, because I believe I'm living in this sort of environment. :mad:

Is it chocolate chip? They are my favorite :D
*nod*

*gives to tray of cookies*

Question not just authority, but those under you. Those around you. Inanimate actions, animate actions, deities, laws, laws of physics, existence, needs, wants, hungers. Don't question authority: Question EVERYTHING.

*gets bruised*

*questions IL Ruffino's authority to shoot everyone with paintballs*

*shoots back*
:eek:

*questions Seathorn's reaction*

*gets army of paintball snipers*

I say rebel for the sake of rebelling.

*shoots Katganistan with paintball gun*

Viva la Revolucion!


*fires back with water balloon filled with paint and a catapult!*

Exactly, there is our problems... there are just far too many sheeple out there.

Damnit!!! *Retaliates by shooting IL Ruffino in the ass with a paintball gun*
*points to Mt-Tau*

*looks over to paintball squad sitting on their horses at attention*

ATTACK!

Question not just authority, but those under you. Those around you. Inanimate actions, animate actions, deities, laws, laws of physics, existence, needs, wants, hungers. Don't question authority: Question EVERYTHING.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." -Thomas Jefferson.

What is implied there (since some folks are bound to think I'm hijacking the thread to talk about atheism/agnosticism) is that even the most powerful of entities should be questioned. Question everything, as Szanth most astutely stated.

Paintball sucks. *grabs his airsoft gun and paints y'all with 6mm of plastic ouchie that looks way cooler than the kitchen sink plumbing contraption known as paintball markers*

*points to Mt-Tau*

*looks over to paintball squad sitting on their horses at attention*

ATTACK!
See? See? This is what you get when authority is over-questionated! Disorder, Chaos, and finally civil war and teh Illegal Terrorist Immigrants take over.:mad:

See? See? This is what you get when authority is over-questionated! Disorder, Chaos, and finally civil war and teh Illegal Terrorist Immigrants take over.:mad:

*gives a megawedgie* BAHAHAHAHA!

I say rebel for the sake of rebelling.

*shoots Katganistan with paintball gun*

Viva la Revolucion!

*does a drive-by paintball shooting in a white unmarked van*

Viva status quo!

Authority should always be questioned. I get into a lot of trouble at school for that kind of thing, but it's what I personally believe in.

See? See? This is what you get when authority is over-questionated! Disorder, Chaos, and finally civil war and teh Illegal Terrorist Immigrants take over.:mad:

Actually, what happened here was less questioning, more just relaxing with teh eXtreme sportz. If EVERYONE relaxed with more 3X7|23|\/|3 Sportz0rz then the world would be so much better a place. Like one big happy party time of shootin eachother with fake guns.

What a species...

Edit: I hope my 1337 extreme didn't get word-wrapped on everyone's monitors... Cuz it did on mine. -shakes fist-

Authority should always be questioned. I get into a lot of trouble at school for that kind of thing, but it's what I personally believe in.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Authority HAS to be questionned. Holding authority gives you at least as much dutys than power (or at least, it should), and it's a duty from the people obeying to ensure the superior is still worth obeying.

And for governements, I couldn't say it better than they did during the Revolution:


Article 35. If the governement violates the rights of the people, then insurection is, for the people as a whole and for every single of its parts, the most sacred of the rights, and the most fundamental of the duties.

I'm gonna make an educated guess here, and say:
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

I don't get... what's wrong with the question? I mean, I'm assuming if you have something wrong with it it's rather easy to figure out your opinion....

As for me, I believe there are certainly times when you should question authority. When everyone just does as their told like nice little mindless sheep then we get corruption and tyrranies.

Question not just authority, but those under you. Those around you. Inanimate actions, animate actions, deities, laws, laws of physics, existence, needs, wants, hungers. Don't question authority: Question EVERYTHING.
sigged

Question Authority? Beware the authorities.

http://namaste_rich.gnn.tv/headlines/1063/Tape_Reveals_Terrifying_Campaign_In_War_On_Drugs

Of course, this case is one where official policy is that torture is bad, so the torturers are now in jail for a few years. Naturally, the victims are now in jail - and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the cops framed them for daring to expose the truth. I also wouldn't be a bit surprised if the victims get a longer jail sentence than the cops who tortured Eugene Siler.

This doesn't even touch the issue of socially approved torture in U.S. re-education camps - er, "Treatment Facilities", that is.

So don't question Authority, anyone! They'll find a way to get their revenge if you make them look stupid or mean!



Baldur

Fuck Authority!!!!!!! Kill Them All! Let God Sort Em Out!

:mp5: Question Authority on all levels. We need to watch the watchers, and let them know it too.:sniper:

*gives a megawedgie* BAHAHAHAHA!
*gives up on riding megawedgie, but is nevertheless happy that thread is starting riots already*

question everything, politely.

Don't just question authority. Prod it with hot pokers & put out your fag ends on it as well.

Authority is a hollow concept. Follow reason, not fear.

Any kind of power needs oversight. We need someone keeping an eye on the governments, just as we need government itself.

*fires back with water balloon filled with paint and a catapult!*

Wait, you actually fired the catapult itself?

Authority HAS to be questionned. Holding authority gives you at least as much dutys than power (or at least, it should), and it's a duty from the people obeying to ensure the superior is still worth obeying.

And for governements, I couldn't say it better than they did during the Revolution:Article 35. If the governement violates the rights of the people, then insurection is, for the people as a whole and for every single of its parts, the most sacred of the rights, and the most fundamental of the duties.

Is that why the french riot whenever they are displeased, and sometimes actually manage to affect government decisions, such as that workers legislation bit?

And is this law still valid?

Wait, you actually fired the catapult itself?


;) Of course. Peace through superior firepower.

1) crank back catapult arm
2) put paint balloon in catapult cradle.
3) aim
4) FIRE! (hit the release)

Authority shouldn't simply be questioned but actively denounced.

Quoted for truth.

Should authority be questioned?

Why do you ask?




hehe.

Why do you ask?




hehe.
hehe. Bow not to me my child. (hoping I got the joke) Actually inspired by a comment from cornelieu rhetorically asking what the bible had to say about respecting your superiors. Further motives must remain classified...

Is that why the french riot whenever they are displeased, and sometimes actually manage to affect government decisions, such as that workers legislation bit?

And is this law still valid?

Well, we have an habbit of letting governement acts too much against the people will, yes. It comes from the same cultural roots than the Revolution, very likely. But we don't do it enough IMHO, the current gov managed to get away with so many disastrous laws opposed by a large majority :(

For this "workers legislation bit", yeah, they finally gave up. But they kept the rest of the law, which wasn't good either. They just removed the most contested point.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/MAR-Peeves/Banners/teddybanner.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/MAR-Peeves/Banners/IKEbanner.jpg


/That is all.

I want a bazooka that fires 18th C. French furniture... Or catapults. That'd be cool. Who the hell says your superiors are your betters? Well, they do. Wouldn't you though, if you could?

I suppose it depends on one's purpose for questioning authority. When you get down to it, there are two purposes for questioning authority: 1) a genuine interest in understanding the decisions of our leaders 2) express doubt in the competence of our leaders without coming right out and saying it. More often than not, people do not have a genuine interest in understanding the decisions of leaders, because that requires effort. In that case, one should just shut the hell up and do what they are told. Expressing doubt by questioning is just wrong. It's more honest and straightforward to tell someone "I don't believe you" than to ask them "are you sure?" Actually, it's one of those things that annoys me so much that any time someone asks me "are you sure?" I just say "no".

Cut to the chase: if you are going to question authority, do so with a genuine interest in understanding. Anything else just creates discord and is of no value to anyone.

I suppose it depends on one's purpose for questioning authority. When you get down to it, there are two purposes for questioning authority: 1) a genuine interest in understanding the decisions of our leaders 2) express doubt in the competence of our leaders without coming right out and saying it. More often than not, people do not have a genuine interest in understanding the decisions of leaders, because that requires effort. In that case, one should just shut the hell up and do what they are told. Expressing doubt by questioning is just wrong. It's more honest and straightforward to tell someone "I don't believe you" than to ask them "are you sure?" Actually, it's one of those things that annoys me so much that any time someone asks me "are you sure?" I just say "no".

Cut to the chase: if you are going to question authority, do so with a genuine interest in understanding. Anything else just creates discord and is of no value to anyone.
Worse even, downright destructive. Order must be preserved at any cost.

After all, your superior is your better, therefor he/she is your superior.

If you can actually prove I have a superior, I may shut up and do as I'm told.

Otherwise ....

If you can actually prove I have a superior, I may shut up and do as I'm told.

Otherwise ....

There are no "superiors." Sentient beings are fundamentally equal.

Which should sufficiently answer the original question.

It depends on the situation. Generally political authority should be questioned but in a millitary situation orders have to be obeyed without question or lives may be lost.

There are no "superiors." Sentient beings are fundamentally equal.

Which should sufficiently answer the original question.
Would that include bush, bin laden, and god?

Would that include bush, bin laden, and god?

Yes, it would. Bush, Bin Laden, and God are all equal to me.

It depends on the situation. Generally political authority should be questioned but in a millitary situation orders have to be obeyed without question or lives may be lost.
So if you're in the military and your superior tells you to go and torture those iraqi prisoners, you should just go ahead?

Would that include bush, bin laden, and god?
God is not questionable because he doesn't answer questions, and anyway, there is no action to be taken against him if we're dissatisfied with him, so I leave him out of it.

Bush and bin Laden are both human authority figures. Are you saying they should not be questioned? Does that mean that you will not question bin Laden if he orders you to convert to his religion or else suffer execution? You wouldn't try to stop him because he's an authority figure? Does this mean you think the Arab/Muslim people should follow him and are right if they do so? Does such obedience to authority promote order in the world?

Are you starting to see the flaw in your thinking here?

So if you're in the military and your superior tells you to go and torture those iraqi prisoners, you should just go ahead?
So, you do think authority should be questioned sometimes?

God is not questionable because he doesn't answer questions, and anyway, there is no action to be taken against him if we're dissatisfied with him, so I leave him out of it.

But He gives commands. Should you obey them, just because He's God (leaving aside the question of His existence or of the authorship of His holy texts)?

Worse even, downright destructive. Order must be preserved at any cost.
First, this is a false connection. Questioning authority is not the same as insurrection and does not promote chaos. Rather, it promotes order by keeping our leaders honest because they are under constant scrutiny.

Second, it is an impossible and self-defeating notion that order can (let alone must) be perserved at any cost. Chaos happened in New Orleans last year, but it wasn't caused by questioning of authority. And where were those authorities when they were needed? Standing around with their heads up their asses, that's where. Are you saying we shouldn't have questioned their lack of preparedness? Are you aware that all of the command offices of Los Angeles' emergency services and first response are located in a single building that straddles the San Andreas fault (at least until recently)? If a major earthquake destroys that building, there will be chaos in Los Angeles, but again, not because authority was questioned. Perhaps it would be better to question the authorities who put those offices in that building now, before it falls down.

But He gives commands. Should you obey them, just because He's God (leaving aside the question of His existence or of the authorship of His holy texts)?
Yeah, but if I question his orders, I'm not going to get any kind of an answer, explanatory or dismissive, so I don't waste my breath. Plus, since he's omniscient, I figure I don't need to alert him to the fact that I'm ignoring his commands. If he wants to do something about it, I'm sure he'll get around to it. Thus, when it comes to questioning authority, god really isn't in the game.

So if you're in the military and your superior tells you to go and torture those iraqi prisoners, you should just go ahead?

Having experience in these matters, every officer and enlisted person has the right to refuse illegal orders. In the case of being ordered to torture, there just happens to be a large amount of legal precedent prohibiting torture.

1. I would cite the Geneva Prisoner of War Convention prohibiting inhumane treatment of prisoners, of which we are primary signatory.

2. I would cite the United Nations Ban on Torture Treaty, again we are a primary signatory to this treaty as well.

3. I would cite the Uniform Code of Military Justice; 892, Article 92 Deriliction of Duty, 893 Article 93 Cruelty and Maltreatment, 933, Art 133 Conduct Unbecoming a Military Officer and 934, Article 134 the General Article.

Then having set my legal foundation properly, I would give a copy of my refusal and reasons on paper to my superior (the one who gave the illegal order), his superior, the Office of the Inspector General, and copies to the Judge Advocate General.

Authority is not absolute, even within the military. You cannot refuse lawful orders in the military, but you can refuse orders that are illegal.

I question authority. I always considered the orders I gave and received for legality. I refused two orders in my career, in both cases I was correct. It might have cost me 0-6, but that promotion was in the end not nearly as important as doing my duty with honour and integrity. Small price for me to pay.

The folks I feel sorry for are the ones who do not question authority, who willingly follow along even when deep within, they know they are wrong.

If you can actually prove I have a superior, I may shut up and do as I'm told.

Otherwise ....


His name is Mel and he lives in Nebraska. Now shut up and get to work!

:)

...or should everybody shut up and do as they're told?

After all, your superior is your better, therefor he/she is your superior. Those who have an opinion should just wait until they are superior themselves, before airing that opinion. Like when people disapprove of their government, they should just vote it away. Between elections they should give the government a break. How about that?
Just wait til you get to middle school! You'll find out all sorts of things about how dissent is patriotic.

*gets bruised*

*questions IL Ruffino's authority to shoot everyone with paintballs*

*shoots back*

*chastises Seathorn for not wearing head protection*

So, you do think authority should be questioned sometimes?
Never! I totally agree with what PasturePastry said, namely:I suppose it depends on one's purpose for questioning authority. When you get down to it, there are two purposes for questioning authority: 1) a genuine interest in understanding the decisions of our leaders 2) express doubt in the competence of our leaders without coming right out and saying it. More often than not, people do not have a genuine interest in understanding the decisions of leaders, because that requires effort. In that case, one should just shut the hell up and do what they are told. Expressing doubt by questioning is just wrong. It's more honest and straightforward to tell someone "I don't believe you" than to ask them "are you sure?" Actually, it's one of those things that annoys me so much that any time someone asks me "are you sure?" I just say "no".

Cut to the chase: if you are going to question authority, do so with a genuine interest in understanding. Anything else just creates discord and is of no value to anyone.Especially the chased cut.

Authority should always be questioned. Otherwise you're just a bloody sheep.

.................
Besides which, the basis of authority is the threat of violence. Allowing yourself to be cowed into silence by threat of force is normally referred to as cowardice.

Cowardice being the opposite of treason? What about patriotism?


Being cowed into silence by threat of force is not patriotism. In fact, you would (in America, anyway) be more patriotic if you did stand up and speak for the freedoms upon which we were founded.

And questioning authority is not treason. Taking authority out and shooting it, then turning over all its secrets to the enemy might be, but simply saying "Hey, authority? What are you up to? I have questions, and some objections to your actions!" is not treason, no matter how hard some conservatives lobby for it to be so.

Being cowed into silence by threat of force is not patriotism. In fact, you would (in America, anyway) be more patriotic if you did stand up and speak for the freedoms upon which we were founded.

And questioning authority is not treason. Taking authority out and shooting it, then turning over all its secrets to the enemy might be, but simply saying "Hey, authority? What are you up to? I have questions, and some objections to your actions!" is not treason, no matter how hard some conservatives lobby for it to be so.
If you have objections to their actions, then why not save those for the elections?

"Should authority be questioned?"

Always.

"Should authority be questioned?"

Always.
I'm surprised you didn't get kicked out of the military then. Sheepmentality and all that jazz...

Should authority be questioned?

Is that really the question you should be asking? Do we not always question authority when authority is expoused?

Perhaps a different question: should authority be disobeyed?

Should authority be questioned?

Is that really the question you should be asking? Do we not always question authority when authority is expoused?

Perhaps a different question: should authority be disobeyed?
Do we always? I think not. I think most of us seek out an unquestionable authority. Some need to search longer then others, and authority comes in all shapes and sizes.

If you have objections to their actions, then why not save those for the elections?

What if said actions are illegal, or are percieved to be illegal? What if, say, there actually are no elections and a coup or somesuch occurs? Do you start to question then? Or just go on like the good drone you are and think Big Brother is the best?

Do we always? I think not. I think most of us seek out an unquestionable authority. Some need to search longer then others, and authority comes in all shapes and sizes.

But do we not in our heads and our hearts try to contemplate the purpose of our order? Regardless of our compliance, is that not questioning? Are we more than mere robots?

But surely one must question their orders (at least in ones head) in order to understand what is asked of them? In order to complete the task.
I am going by what I believe is a common understanding of the phrase: to question authority. In this context, to question does not mean 'wonder what means', but wonder, openly or to oneself, quietly or on the radio, what right said authority has to exercise control, or if said authority is doing it all wrong, etc.

But do we not in our heads and our hearts try to contemplate the purpose of our order? Regardless of our compliance, is that not questioning? Are we more than mere robots?
What we do is not the issue. What we should do is.

I am going by what I believe is a common understanding of the phrase: to question authority. In this context, to question does not mean 'wonder what means', but wonder, openly or to oneself, quietly or on the radio, what right said authority has to exercise control, or if said authority is doing it all wrong, etc.

Well then you are right. We do seek unquestionable authority, wisdom, leadership. That has been the purpose behind human thought for thousands of years; the search for god, the search for ultimate knowledge, the quest for happiness.

Even if it is completely futile.

Should it be questioned? Yes, because in my hopelessness as a human being, I still believe I should try to overcome that futility.

If the quest for knowledge and power has been driven through the centuries by the quest for an unquestionable authority, then I would rather have the fruits of that quest (i.e Technology) than to be without them. By my reckoning, they can work to my advantage.

What if said actions are illegal, or are percieved to be illegal? What if, say, there actually are no elections and a coup or somesuch occurs? Do you start to question then? Or just go on like the good drone you are and think Big Brother is the best?
Just know who has the power and do what he/she tells you. If they say jump...

Just know who has the power and do what he/she tells you. If they say jump...

You're not serious...right?


Because if you are, that is truly insane.

You're not serious...right?


Because if you are, that is truly insane.
Nevertheless, I am off to bed. G'night.

Nevertheless, I am off to bed. G'night.

Even the insane need to rest, I guess. Perhaps moreso....

Nevertheless, I am off to bed. G'night.

Wait. You were serious?






Jesus...

Always. If not questioned, they might be voted back in unknowingly.

Wait. You were serious?






Jesus...
What difference does it make whether I was serious or not? Should I aim to please my peers, thus efficiently giving them authority over my? Should I not question the autoritative norm, that demands that I question everything? If society demands that we be not sheep, how are we anything else if we unthinkingly shed the sheepskin, because we are told to? Or if we are told to give it a thought, and then reach the conclusion that sheepity is baaaahaahaad?

What if said actions are illegal, or are percieved to be illegal? What if, say, there actually are no elections and a coup or somesuch occurs? Do you start to question then? Or just go on like the good drone you are and think Big Brother is the best?
Pretty much everyone goes on like a good drone. U.S. elections, anyone? Lots of grumble, but to what effect? Big Brother says jump...well, not everyone wants to know how high, but everyone sure as hell jumps.

Pretty much everyone goes on like a good drone. U.S. elections, anyone? Lots of grumble, but to what effect? Big Brother says jump...well, not everyone wants to know how high, but everyone sure as hell jumps.

So true. Horrifyingly, frighteningly true.

Order must be preserved at any cost.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4156/infirmary/xeno/borg/locutusofborg.jpg

Authority should alwasys be questioned.

One thing that I don't understand is how many people will agree with that statement, but swallow any line that comes down the pipe that remotely reinforces thier current views.

People need to start thier questions by questioning themselves.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4156/infirmary/xeno/borg/locutusofborg.jpg

Resistant is futile...Number One.

Just know who has the power and do what he/she tells you. If they say jump...

http://www.cmfdesigns.com/senyahscoloringbook/lamb.jpg

http://www.cmfdesigns.com/senyahscoloringbook/lamb.jpg
Is that an actual sheep or a wolf in a very good disguise?

Authority should be questioned, but not rejected because it is authority. Someone tells you not to jump off a building. That person is an authority. Now, are you going to jump off the building? No!

Meanwhile, in the paintball fight...
*drops a large paint factory on the battlefield*

Authority should be questioned, but not rejected because it is authority. Someone tells you not to jump off a building. That person is an authority. Now, are you going to jump off the building? No!

Meanwhile, in the paintball fight...
*drops a large paint factory on the battlefield*

GET DOWN.... And you didnt listen because you wanted to be a rebel and so you were shot:sniper:

It's sad that the Declaration of Independence has no legal relevance, because it says: "--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

We have a right to abolish government that has horrendously flawed authority, and our freedom of speech is the temporary check to that authority.

However, keep in mind that there is a certain God-given hierarchy. The teacher is superior to the student, the parent superior to the child. You should only question those authorities when they are clearly causing destruction on your behalf.

It's sad that the Declaration of Independence has no legal relevance, because it says: "--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

We have a right to abolish government that has horrendously flawed authority, and our freedom of speech is the temporary check to that authority.

However, keep in mind that there is a certain God-given hierarchy. The teacher is superior to the student, the parent superior to the child. You should only question those authorities when they are clearly causing destruction on your behalf.

Respect but you can disagree with authority as long as you show respect.

There's no time it shouldn't be.

Respect but you can disagree with authority as long as you show respect.
Why bother?

"Respect" is code for "fear", anyway.

Never! I totally agree with what PasturePastry said, namely:Especially the chased cut.
I appreciate the vote of confidence. Thank you.

It appears that there is a lack of understanding what authority is, namely where it comes from. People are only in positions of authority because the people beneath them gave them that power. Nobody has any authority over you unless you give it to them. Now, many "authority figures" may want to tell you otherwise, but without your consent, nobody has any power over you.

If there's any questioning to be done, one should question why they are following authority rather than doing as they wish.

Question not just authority, but those under you. Those around you. Inanimate actions, animate actions, deities, laws, laws of physics, existence, needs, wants, hungers. Don't question authority: Question EVERYTHING.

Um....don't we call this paranoid?

I'm surprised you didn't get kicked out of the military then.
I began my military career in counterinsurgency operations. The job requires considerable independence of thought and action. I created my own missions, set my own agenda, obtained my own resources, and sent a report of activities in once every month. I was repeatedly commended for my team's creativity and inventiveness, and was promoted twice in two years.

However, that same independence of thought and action constantly got me in trouble in the various line units where I was a commander and staff officer. That is the primary reason I never rose above the rank of Captain.

Question authority, but do it intelligently and with cause, not just for the sake of questioning authority. There is no credibility in acting like a teenager rebelling against his/her parents just because they're parents.

Never! I totally agree with what PasturePastry said, namely:Especially the chased cut.
Namely:
originally posted by PasturePastry
Cut to the chase: if you are going to question authority, do so with a genuine interest in understanding. Anything else just creates discord and is of no value to anyone.
So you're saying that, when authority says "Jump!", the only permitted question is "How high, sir?" But what if an authority orders you to demonstrate loyalty by shooting your mother? Would you do it? And who gets to wield this authority over you? A king? A president? A cop? Any cop? Would you question authority enough to determine that the person claiming authority actually has it? Or if anyone in a cop's uniform demanded to be let into your house, would you just open your door? If you get arrested for a crime, would you not try to defend yourself because the cops and the prosecutors (all authority figures) say you are guilty? What if the various authorities conflict with each other? What if the president tells you one thing, but congress or parliament tells you another, while the mayor of your town tells you a third, and the cop with a gun standing on your front step is telling you a fourth? Who will you obey and who will you disobey? What if everything they are telling conflicts with what your parents and family tell you? What if it conflicts with the rules your boss imposes at work? What if it conflicts with what your religion tells you? What if it conflicts with your own sense of right and wrong? Would you commit fraud if your boss told you to, even though you know it's illegal? Would you torture a prisoner? Would you shoot an unarmed civilian?

At what point does your "patriotic" obedience become nothing more than an excuse for abdicating all personal responsibility for your own actions?

And above all, what would you do if the authority figures ask you for your opinion about what they should be doing?

So you're saying that, when authority says "Jump!", the only permitted question is "How high, sir?" But what if an authority orders you to demonstrate loyalty by shooting your mother? Would you do it? And who gets to wield this authority over you? A king? A president? A cop? Any cop? Would you question authority enough to determine that the person claiming authority actually has it? Or if anyone in a cop's uniform demanded to be let into your house, would you just open your door? If you get arrested for a crime, would you not try to defend yourself because the cops and the prosecutors (all authority figures) say you are guilty? What if the various authorities conflict with each other? What if the president tells you one thing, but congress or parliament tells you another, while the mayor of your town tells you a third, and the cop with a gun standing on your front step is telling you a fourth? Who will you obey and who will you disobey? What if everything they are telling conflicts with what your parents and family tell you? What if it conflicts with the rules your boss imposes at work? What if it conflicts with what your religion tells you? What if it conflicts with your own sense of right and wrong? Would you commit fraud if your boss told you to, even though you know it's illegal? Would you torture a prisoner? Would you shoot an unarmed civilian?

At what point does your "patriotic" obedience become nothing more than an excuse for abdicating all personal responsibility for your own actions?

And above all, what would you do if the authority figures ask you for your opinion about what they should be doing?
Like I said before, there's no time it shouldn't be questioned.

If you have objections to their actions, then why not save those for the elections?
What if the democratically elected authorities declare themselves dictator or president-for-life, take over the government by force, and ban elections?

That's what Saddam Hussein did, and "Pappa Doc" Duvalier in Haiti, among many others. Did they have the right to do that because they were authority figures?

Do we always? I think not. I think most of us seek out an unquestionable authority. Some need to search longer then others, and authority comes in all shapes and sizes.
Isn't that what god is for? Why do you also need that in your government?

(btw, not everyone seeks such a thing.)

Pretty much everyone goes on like a good drone. U.S. elections, anyone? Lots of grumble, but to what effect? Big Brother says jump...well, not everyone wants to know how high, but everyone sure as hell jumps.
I don't jump on command. I've never jumped on command in my life. Since early childhood, all authority figures have had to prove not only that they had the right to give orders to me but also that they were competent to give said orders and that it was strictly necessary under the given circumstances for me to pay any attention to them at all. My mom and teachers had their hands full, let me tell you, though there was little mutual sympathy between them. Teachers who complained to my mother about my non-compliance with authority would be greeted by "and who said you had any authority over her?" by my mom. Cops, by the way, love me -- I get along with them very well. They commend me as an example of the right way to behave towards authority -- always demand to see that ID, kids, and if they don't show it, don't get into the squad car.

When authority rears its head, I always question it and I always ask it the same questions: "Who are you, who do you think you are, and who gave you permission to speak to me?"

Do not assume that everyone is as willing and eager a sycophant as you are.

It's sad that the Declaration of Independence has no legal relevance, because it says: "--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

We have a right to abolish government that has horrendously flawed authority, and our freedom of speech is the temporary check to that authority.

However, keep in mind that there is a certain God-given hierarchy. The teacher is superior to the student, the parent superior to the child. You should only question those authorities when they are clearly causing destruction on your behalf.
I take issue with your use of "superior." No human being is inherently superior to any other human being, and certainly not because of the job they happen to hold. I had an English teacher who would excuse himself from class for 45 minutes every day to go snort coke in the bathroom. Was he my superior, worthy of deference and obedience? What about the executive at a job who tried to get me to take the rap for his attempt to defraud a client by overcharging on a service I was responsible for so he could siphon the money off to cover a shortfall from another client, i.e. an illegal action which would have had my name on it and not his? Should I called him my "superior" and done what he wanted? I didn't. In fact, I raised hell about it and made him back the hell off.

Yet if I bought into this "god-given hierarchy" idea, I would have taken the rap for his misdemeanor. Why should I do that? Is this still the Middle Ages, for crying out loud?

Um....don't we call this paranoid?
Only if you get the answers late at night when no one is around.

Why bother?

"Respect" is code for "fear", anyway.
Only in Quagmus's universe. I respect people out of admiration for their abilities and accomplishments.

Like I said before, there's no time it shouldn't be questioned.
Yeah, well, you and I think that.

Don't just question authority. Prod it with hot pokers & put out your fag ends on it as well.

Authority is a hollow concept. Follow reason, not fear.

Well technically on that same note, following proper authorities would be following reason, because an authority is chosen due to a person's superiority in a subject, skill... etc.

For example, a boy needs help on his math work, he could go to an 'authority' (his teacher) or he could not go to an 'authority' (his little sister/imaginary friend/ask a fortune teller/ask the custodians). Somehow following the authority's advice seems to be the most logical.

Also on that note, there was once this Greek Philosopher who said "Question Everything." Of course, he did question everything, then the authorities gave him hemlock and killed him, because he didn't know how to shut up.

Of course, he went down in history as a martyr for his beliefs (and one of the first major philosophers in history..) and we get to study him in history class. But he still died an early and painful death.

Well technically on that same note, following proper authorities would be following reason, because an authority is chosen due to a person's superiority in a subject, skill... etc.

For example, a boy needs help on his math work, he could go to an 'authority' (his teacher) or he could not go to an 'authority' (his little sister/imaginary friend/ask a fortune teller/ask the custodians). Somehow following the authority's advice seems to be the most logical.

Also on that note, there was once this Greek Philosopher who said "Question Everything." Of course, he did question everything, then the authorities gave him hemlock and killed him, because he didn't know how to shut up.

Of course, he went down in history as a martyr for his beliefs (and one of the first major philosophers in history..) and we get to study him in history class. But he still died an early and painful death.
Skill, knowledge, training, and competence are the best qualifications for granting a person authority, but not every job is given to the most qualified. In other words, not every math teacher is good at teaching math. The person granted or claiming authority should be questioned to prove that they are worthy of being given authority. Then, and only then, should they be followed. But even then, if they make a mistake, they should be called on it. Truly competent people can deal with being called on a mistake.

...or should everybody shut up and do as they're told?

After all, your superior is your better, therefor he/she is your superior. Those who have an opinion should just wait until they are superior themselves, before airing that opinion. Like when people disapprove of their government, they should just vote it away. Between elections they should give the government a break. How about that?


I don't recognize anyone as superior to me, and certainly not as my 'betters'. I consider myself superior to everyone, and yet I remain completely humble and modest. Maybe I am slightly meglomaniacal, but many people find that charming.

I don't recognize anyone as superior to me, and certainly not as my 'betters'. I consider myself superior to everyone, and yet I remain completely humble and modest. Maybe I am slightly meglomaniacal, but many people find that charming.
I don't know about you, but I find it sometimes difficult to maintain my humility when I'm surrounded by these uppity lowlings. I mean really, you give some peasant a job title and, all of a sudden, he thinks he's in charge of something. :rolleyes:

;)

Skill, knowledge, training, and competence are the best qualifications for granting a person authority, but not every job is given to the most qualified. In other words, not every math teacher is good at teaching math. The person granted or claiming authority should be questioned to prove that they are worthy of being given authority. Then, and only then, should they be followed. But even then, if they make a mistake, they should be called on it. Truly competent people can deal with being called on a mistake.

It is one thing to question whether someone has the right to authority, and another to question decisions made by someone who has authority. Often times people have to mount a huge effort to change the authority of someone who already has it, because at some point they were proven to be competent in whatever it is that they're doing. At some point, someone elected them, or interviewed them, or agreed to let them take over some task.

I certainly agree that not every math teacher is good at what they do, but if they have the power to make, say, a pop quiz, I wouldn't expect all the students to jump up in protest and ask to see his/her qualifications to do so. Also, if the teacher stated something, such as a method to solve a problem, I think the students should trust that s/he knows what s/he's talking about. If we're supposed to question everything, or all decisions made by authorities, then we'd get absolutely nowhere.

My basic point here is that questioning the position of authority is a right to people, since the people give authorities the power of authority, but simply because they are authorites does not mean that every decision they make is wrong.

I don't know about you, but I find it sometimes difficult to maintain my humility when I'm surrounded by these uppity lowlings. I mean really, you give some peasant a job title and, all of a sudden, he thinks he's in charge of something. :rolleyes:

;)


How true, that's why I don't give out job titles.

It is one thing to question whether someone has the right to authority, and another to question decisions made by someone who has authority. Often times people have to mount a huge effort to change the authority of someone who already has it, because at some point they were proven to be competent in whatever it is that they're doing. At some point, someone elected them, or interviewed them, or agreed to let them take over some task.

I certainly agree that not every math teacher is good at what they do, but if they have the power to make, say, a pop quiz, I wouldn't expect all the students to jump up in protest and ask to see his/her qualifications to do so. Also, if the teacher stated something, such as a method to solve a problem, I think the students should trust that s/he knows what s/he's talking about. If we're supposed to question everything, or all decisions made by authorities, then we'd get absolutely nowhere.

My basic point here is that questioning the position of authority is a right to people, since the people give authorities the power of authority, but simply because they are authorites does not mean that every decision they make is wrong.
Clearly, but it also doesn't mean that every decision they make is right. If you think they are incompetent or dishonest or even just mistaken, you need to speak up, regardless of how many job interviews they may have aced to get where they are. They're only people, after all; they're not perfect. Even Stephen Hawking forgot to carry the 2 once in his career. The OP suggests that as long as a politician is in office, his/her decisions should not be questioned. Such a view is beyond foolish, in my opinion, it is downright dangerous to society. And in the US -- and other countries, too, perhaps? -- such blind obedience would be a dereliction of the duty of the citizen.

*Snapshots everyone in their goggles with an Intimidator Alias with a ramped WAS-Board* 30 bps woohoo!

...or should everybody shut up and do as they're told? The only cases where authority shouldn't be questioned is where someone has explicitly and knowingly signed themselves into obedience/fealty. For example, the Republicans have done so with Bush, especially at his public speeches (admit it, it explains a lot!) Now a bunch of them are turning traitor, and deserve the screws for it. :)

I don't know about you, but I find it sometimes difficult to maintain my humility when I'm surrounded by these uppity lowlings. I mean really, you give some peasant a job title and, all of a sudden, he thinks he's in charge of something. :rolleyes:

;)
Understood clearly, MASter. :D

Exactly, there is our problems... there are just far too many sheeple out there.

Damnit!!! *Retaliates by shooting IL Ruffino in the ass with a paintball gun*
Sigged, cookie to you!

I appreciate the vote of confidence. Thank you.
.....
Well, sorry. I was not being entirely sincere. That vote was only cast as life support to the thread.

Authority should be questioned at every turn.

The Government should be subject to the people who it governs.
This is a pretty simple concept I would think, and yet it seems as if every day, little by little, we are becoming the governments subjects.

Thats not democracy, or even a republic.

Thats an Oligarchy?

(Ruled by a few?)

Eh..my point is that our elected officials should be held to the highest standards, and the people who elect them, should have the power to remove these people by a majority concensus, if said official is a complete moron, a criminal, an asswipe dictator in the making, or related to Karl Rove, or ARE Karl Rove.

Elected Represenatives are exactly that, represenatives of the people who elect them.
That means when this guy is speaking his mind to the entire world, he is representing YOU.

Personally, Im pretty excrutiatingly particular about who I have represent me anywhere.
ESPECIALLY when it comes to very serious matters such as knocking over third world countries for thier natural rescources.

Authority should be questioned, controlled, and regulated.

I think that people ought to be able to question authority when their superiors are clearly at fault, but in many cases your superiors are up there for a reason; they actually know what they're doing: if check-out girls were in charge of major supermarket chains it would be a serious problem.

It really pees me off when some college drop-out who works part-time at Wal-Mart thinks they know better than everyone else and have a right to campaign for/against something they know nothing about because of a stupid email they received from Bebo or somewhere.

If people took the time to find out about what was happening, and got all of the facts, then yes, they should be able to question the authority of their superiors.